I'm a disciple of Jesus Christ. I follow Him and I follow His teachings. Nobody gets to decide what I am. It's arrogant to tell others what they believe.
You are partly correct. However, for consistency, the English language has rules. All must abide by those rules or there is anarchy. "Christian" has a definition that is contrary to what LDS believe. I don't consider myself "Christian" yet I believe in Christ who is a completely separate entity from God.
@@madogg152 They have no clue that it was unbelievers who mocked those who followed Christ and labelled them as Christians and that is why we only see 3 times there’s a reference of that label in the New Testament. However, throughout the Bible, Old Testament and New Testament Prophets and Apostles referenced true believes and disciples of Christ as only SAINTS 95 TIMES. The naysayers are ferocious as being the gate keeper of a man made name “Christian” that God doesn’t even recognize us as. You take the last book of the Bible, Revelation, that are prophesies of the end times and every reference to God’s people are the SAINTS. While the haters are fighting over and casting judgement as to who is a Christian and who is not, God have rested on calling his true believers SAINTS.🙏🏽😁
They think we’re wrong about Christ so they say we’re not Christian. We think they’re wrong about Christ (the Trinity) but we don’t say they’re not Christian. You know why? That wouldn’t be Christian.
@@godsoffspring4195 Obviously there's a general, historical, normative Christianity that historians would point to as Orthodox. It's not perfectly defined, as there are some variations over time, but the central dogma is consistent. 1) There is one God. 2) God created all by the Word (YHWH). 3) Man has fallen as a result of Garden Narrative. 4) A savior is required. 5) Jesus, who is God, incarnate, is that savior. 6) Jesus paid the complete penalty for all sin. 7) He overcame death on the third day. 8) All who believe in him are saved from sin, not by any meritorious thing they do, but by simple acceptance of the free, and unmerited, gift of grace. That's the generally held definition of Orthodox Christianity.
@@rodneyjamesmcguire . Wait... that's what all Christians believe. LDS too but you said they're not orthodox. Also... I asked for a definition of what the first orthodox Christians would entail, let's say... in Paul's days?? In detail or general... what was a true Christian then and did 1-8 apply??
@@rodneyjamesmcguire Yes they do. Especially generally. The fun fact is... not only did the very first Orthodox Christians believe all that.... the first ones were called Saints and believed what today's Saints believe. You seem a tad confused, brah.
Only 3 times Christian (s) mentioned in the New Testament. The word “Christian” was used by unbelievers to mock followers of Christ . However “Saints” is mentioned about 95 times by the Apostles and Prophets in The New Testament and Old Testament throughout the Bible. God sees us as Saints, not Christians.
@@kaduyantv2857 I never said the NT doesn't say that the early Christians we also called Saints. So again, you're making another categorical error. The early Saints did indeed call themselves Christian.
@@rodneyjamesmcguireI appreciate you standing up for what you believe. Kudos. You'd need more scriptures, though, to declare a statement categorically false: Categorically False = all/many components (variables) of the point of contention (typically, a multi-variable narrative) are False. You probably meant "flawed." Note my comment below.
Hi! Nice comment, but I will have to check the NT a bit more to agree with you. You might be thinking of a beautiful scripture from the Book of Mormon (look for the word "Christian"): 12 And it came to pass that he rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it-In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children-and he fastened it upon the end of a pole. 13 And he fastened on his head-plate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren, so long as there should a band of Christians remain to possess the land- 14 For thus were all the true believers of Christ, who belonged to the church of God, called by those who did not belong to the church. 15 And those who did belong to the church were faithful; yea, all those who were true believers in Christ took upon them, gladly, the name of Christ, or Christians as they were called, because of their belief in Christ who should come. 16 And therefore, at this time, Moroni prayed that the cause of the Christians, and the freedom of the land might be favored. --Alma 46 I think Latter-day Saints should also be good with the moniker of "Christian."
LDS members are more Christian than those who clam we are not. Christ means anointed. LDS members are anointed after baptism and there are temple ordinances that involve anointing. Hence, LDS are Christians…anointed with oil to take upon us Christ’s name and do his will.
You're absolutely right! Only their biggest people get to be anointed such as king Charles. But in our _more_ Christian faith, the blessings are for *_everyone_* who is worthy.
Thank you. Much of the early church members came out of protestantism. My paternal grandmother and mother were both converts, both who were previously presbyterian. I am so grateful that i did not grow up confused by the doctrine of trinity. I am not speaking ill of our Christian Protestant brethren. I respect their belief system. But I'm grateful for the restoration of priesthood power and government, for prophets and apostles chosen by God and not man, and I'm thankful for the gift of the Holy Ghost. Thank you for sharing your video. And of course we are Christian. That term is not owned by Protestants. But im happy to share that name with them. Im also happy to share the additional truths restored through the prophet Joseph Smith and Peter, James, and John as well as by Elijah and John the Baptist.
My good Brother. The naysayers fail to recognize that throughout the Bible, The Old Testament and New Testament Prophets and Apostles have referenced at least 95 times in the King James Version of the Bible that true believers are Saints, not Christians. They ignore the fact that followers of Christ in the NT was labelled Christian(s) by unbelievers just to mock them. Yet we are Latter-Day Saints representing God as his true disciples and ironically they are ravenous wolves adopting a nick name that is not an official name from God. THANK GOD WE ARE HIS TRUE SAINTS AND SINCE WE ARE ALSO TRUE FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST, NO-ONE CAN DENY US AS CHRISTIANS AS WELL. THE TRUTH SHALL SET THEM FREE FROM THE LIES OF THE DEVIL.🙏🏽
@@RealLadyG Why are you focused on that pointless nonsense? 1Peter 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. The disciples of Christ were called Christians, which means "those who follow the anointed one." They are also saints because saints, in context, mean "sanctified [made holy] people of God". Jesus was also called "Christ", the Messiah, the Anointed One. We are to take up our cross daily and follow Him.
@@ts-900 Why are you so focused on causing confusion, contention and strife overtaking everyone’s comments and slandering what they believe, meanwhile you are categorically bearing false witness. Calm down and go seek Truth through sincere prayer and fasting so you can come out of the darkness into the light!!! Don’t let satan use you to do his bidding. Furthermore, it is clear that you don’t want to accept the truth. Don’t you know that the truth shall set you free!!! Let me restate 1 last time what you are blind to comprehend. Those whom have ears to hear will hear and those whom have eyes to see will see. It was unbelievers, naysayers who mocked those who followed Christ and labelled them as Christians and that is why we only see in, only, The New Testament, 3 times there’s a reference of that label “Christian(s)”. Know and understand the difference. Throughout the Bible, Old Testament and New Testament Prophets and Apostles referenced true believes and disciples of Christ as only SAINTS, 95 TIMES. Y’all naysayers are ferocious as being the gate keeper of a man made name “Christian” that God doesn’t even recognize us as. You take the last book of the Bible, Revelation, that are prophesies of the end times and every reference to God’s people are SAINTS. While you continue to fight in vain and casting judgement as to who is a Christian and who is not, God have rested on calling his true believers SAINTS. I would rather be recognized by God’s words as one of his Covenanted SAINTS than the words of those men whom coined the phrase “Christian” to mock those whom truly follow Christ. That being said, I will still accept the man made label as I’m a Christian also. I’m not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Praying for you.🙏🏽
There is another EXTREMELY important element from verse 19 that is often overlooked. And it is in reference to identifying the “professors [who] were all corrupt.” Which professors were all corrupt? “THOSE professors were all corrupt.” The qualification of “those” ministers was specific. Jesus did not say, “ALL professors were […] corrupt,” it was just “THOSE professors [who] were all corrupt.” This is important because the Lord was being particular. He was referring to the ministers and professors of the various denominations IN PALMYRA and its environs with whom Joseph and his family had had dealings. Those ministers were engaged in the furor of the Second Great Awakening. Their good feelings towards one another “if there ever was any,” were “more pretended than real,” as people “filed off” to one sect or the other. They were inducing great divisiveness within the community. The Savior never said that ALL professors were corrupt. He didn’t exclude the possibility that other professors were also corrupt. But he was clearly referring to those local professors specifically, and not all professors generally. And I think that often gets lost in the retelling.
Brother Patterson: the way I see it, I am not a Christian - rather, I am a Latter-day Saint. To say I am a Christian only invites confusion, or Evangelical assault. I was raised Protestant, but I now have no desire to identify with 4th century church entrails and apostate Christianity. Just one view from our pew.
In 1 Corinthians, Paul calls all Believers “saints”: “To the church of God which is in Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, the called saints, with all those who call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place, who is theirs and ours.”
EXACTLY. AMEN!!! 95 Times throughout the Bible, both Old Testament and New Testament the Prophets and Apostles only referenced true disciples and believers as SAINTS. The word Christian only mentioned 3 times in only The New Testament and it was the unbelievers who came with the name Christian to mock those who followed Christ.
Hi Ed!! How are you doing? We certainly do believe in Christ and we try very hard to follow him! Why? Because we love him so dearly. People who say that about us (generally speaking) don't know us and maybe they don't know Christ either.
As a Latter-day Saint, If Christ cared about us being called Christians HE would of called his Church The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Christian but… 🤷🏻♂️🙄
@@Telavian If the church belongs to Christ, why would it be called by any other name? Jesus even said render to Caesar what is Caesar’s. Can I call your house my house when it doesn’t belong to me? Ponder on that. Notice all the false churches do not carry the name of Jesus Christ. What does that tell you? They are churches of the devil pretending to be churches of Jesus Christ. The one and only The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints
Although it's an interesting debate to see what category The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints falls in, I think what’s more important to the Savior is coming to realize the Church is His.
Christians are those that love, for those that love know God, and those that love in that manner will obtain life eternal. Paul was pretty clear about it, even if someone is the most devout Christian, having faith to move mountains, knowing all of Gods Mysteries, sacrificing all he can, its all worth nothing without charity. So charity is what matters most and what defines a Christian.. Funny enought while I served my mission I found atheists seemed more Christlike than many Christians :)
I have read or listened to so many talks on why the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is not Christian I have lost count. And they are correct we are not Christian by their definition. Nor should we concern ourselves about it. Christ himself said their creeds are wrong. Why would we want to be like them?
Except we were told this by Joseph Smith, not by Christ. We know for a fact that this is a lie because Jesus gave His Holy Spirit to watch over us, to be with us until the day of our redemption. Remember, Joseph Smith was NOT a Christian when we made this claim, nor did he claim to be a Christian. Furthermore, his statements suggested that he did not want to be a Christian. He made no claims, that I know of, to be filled with the Holy Ghost at that time. Not to mention, that ALL the evidence pointed to the fact that the churches were Christians. There were many sincerely holy men of God preaching at the time, and carrying out revivals for Christ, being persecuted for Christ. These were men filled by the Holy Spirit of God. Joseph was just a boy who hadn't even heard, read, or accepted the prophets of God -- in fact, by making these claims, he rejected all the prophets with no evidence.
Except we were told this by Joseph Smith, not by Jesus Christ. We know for a fact that this is a lie because Jesus gave His Holy Spirit to watch over us, to be with us until the day of our redemption. Remember, Joseph Smith was NOT a Christian when he made this claim, nor did he claim to be a Christian. Furthermore, his statements suggested that he did not want to be a Christian. He made no claims, that I know of, this he was filled with the Holy Ghost at that time.
I am do not see how you come to the conclusion Joseph Smith was not a Christian. He was asking God a question which he was encouraged to do from a Bible verse. Your last statement about Joseph Smith and the Holy Ghost makes no sense, maybe you should reword it.
@@caseykaelin9430 Well, I am not the best communicator, but it should make a lot of sense to you. There are NO records, evidence, documentation, etc. that Joseph Smith claims to have been a Christian at that time. And he cannot be a true Christian without the Holy Spirit. And we know that Joseph Smith did not claim to have the Holy Spirit either. So, at that time, he's not a Christian, does not have the Holy Spirit in the best case scenario.
Hi, Edwin. I enjoy your channel. It is easy to make a case that “Their creeds” are indeed abominations. Joseph Smith, Sr. was upset by one of those ministers because that minister insisted that Alvin was damned to eternal hell because Alvin Smith had not been baptized before he died. I myself taught a lady in California in the early 70’s who, even after ten years, she was inconsolable about her little son’s death because her minister told her the same evil nonsense that minister had told the Smith family. Sampson slew a thousand Philistines with the jawbone of an ass. Over the years how many tender grieving souls have been destroyed by the same weapon? If that is not an abomination, I’m hard pressed to define what is. The same thing can be said about the other stupid apostate creeds still being foisted on Christendom. I don’t feel I am obligated to talk nice to monumental ignorance and stupidity. I don’t feel obligated to tolerate ignorance and stupidity.
In the Creation we see the Trinity at Work *Genesis Verse 1* God Created the Heavens & Earth *Genesis 1:2* God the Spirit is Hoovering over the Great Deep *Genesis 1:3-25* Gods WORD speaks Everything into being ( *John 1:1-5* ) *Genesis 1:26-27* God the Father/Son Makes Man in his Own Image then breaths into his Nostrils the breath of Life (Holy Spirit) Man becomes a Living being 🕊️ *Praise Yeshua Ha-MaShiach* 🕊️
Noone knew about this story for two decades when he decided to make it up and retrofit it into church history and doctone. His very first account didnt have two personages appearing. The many accounts evolved throughout his life until the LDS church settled on the 1838 rendition. It's just one of the many numerous fabricated stores of Mormonism. Having been LDS myself for 60 years, I praise God daily for opening up my eyes to the truth. I do believe Latter-day Saints can act like a Christian should, but Mormonism is not biblical Christianity.
Didn't you listen to what he said? Prove we aren't as Christian as you claim to be. It's no me telling you your not a Christian It's you. How Christian is that?
Christian was a word used by unbelievers to mock those who follow Christ. However throughout the entire Bible Old Testament and New Testament Prophets and Apostles refer to true believers as Saints. Know the difference and stop listening to the enemy who is the devil. It’s dangerous to risk your own Salvation leaning unto your own understanding. Do not reject what you don’t understand. Always take it up with God through prayer and even fasting. God warned you to avoid being deceived by Satan leading you away with his lies. Praying for you. God also prophesied that in these last days good will be called bad and bad will be called good. Do you even realize that though Jesus was amongst many people, they allowed the devil to lead them astray by calling Jesus the devil and they eventually crucified him. Don’t fall into the enemy’s trap. Praying for you. Think Celestial.🙏🏽
People just want to make false accusations against LDS church any think that comes to their mind which is not true they love to give a little truth and little lie satan methods of deceiving non believers think they know everything about the lord's kingdom.yet God and Jesus Christ they have reveled many things partaining who they are and how we can become like them and how we can become God's.any thing people speak against LDS church doesn't shake my faith.the only source I rely on is heavenly father and Jesus Christ and living prophet and apostles.
I believe in the physical death burial and resurrection of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. The only way to the father is through relationship with Jesus. I don't believe that when I die I will become a god or live on a planet or be in plural marriage. Those beliefs contradict the Bible and therefore are not Christian beliefs. I don't believe that I have to earn salvation because Jesus paid the price for my sins through his physical death burial and resurrection. I believe that when I die I will be with Jesus for eternity worshiping him forever because I have accepted him as my savior and Lord. I serve Jesus because I love him but not because I'm trying to do enough good works to earn favor or earn salvation. False religions depend on a good works but how can the person know that they've done enough good work to earn salvation? Christians believe that Jesus paid the price and completed the work when he said " it is finished."
I would agree. If the Book of Mormon stands then Joseph stands. At least, in part. Problem is that the BoM doesn't stand on anything. When the first Jews became Christians, they didn't rename themselves. It was a name given to them. The way they saw themselves were Jews. The Messiah had come. But with that being said, they were so different then the historical Jew that they were given a different name. Otherwise there would be confusion. The same goes for Mormonism now. It strays so far from historical Christianity that I can't in good faith call it Christian. Not only does it preach a Jesus that is so far removed from mine, it just muddies the water. There is enough distinction to merit a different name. At best I will call Mormons a sect of Christianity.
@@Frogman1943 You already do, so it doesn't hurt my feelings. That is what you believe. I don't think of it as an insult. My beliefs are that Mormons don't present a real picture of Jesus but rather a picture created by a false prophet. I don't mean it to be insulting. Its just what is.
@@blusheep2 do you have LDS people name call you in person, or like this on youtube or another internet version of communication? I havent known of many fellow LDS members that are not young kids purposely insult or argue with others on religion. we are actually taught early on not to do so, since the argument doesnt bring the spirit of the Lord and it leads to nowhere. a discussion is one thing, but an argument changes the tone and ultimately does nothing positive.
@@Frogman1943 I do not. I have atheists insult me all the time. I have Muslims insult me occasionally and usually passive aggressively. I do not have LDS do the same thing. That being said, its really difficult to get an LDS to engage in a discussion in the first place so my sample size is pretty low. In my personal opinion.... The reason you are taught not to do so is because Mormonism isn't an easy religion to defend. There is more risk to you as a Mormon then there is to me as a Christian in such engagements. Personally, I don't want to insult anyone. That isn't walking in the Spirit. I do care about people's souls though. I think these issues are important enough to talk about because its the difference of being a part of God's kingdom or not. Sometimes, hard things need to be said. They aren't hard things for me to hear but might be hard for you to hear. That may come across then, as aggressive when its not aggressive at all. Its just blunt.
@blusheep2 actually the lord is the reason why we don't insult/ name call anyone. "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples if ye have love one to another" .... in reality that should tell you just as the Lord says who is really his disciples, yet everyone turns a cheek and ignores that verse.
If you read the 1832 First Vision account. The only account written in Joseph's own handwritting it would conform more to the Christian view of God. Joseph only see's Jesus Christ. Not two Gods. If this account had not been changed to the 1838 First Vision used in the history. Joseph may have been accepted as a Christian, biblical view of God. In addition the BOM has all over it that Jesus is our Eternal Father. I don't think we should fault Christians when we may have not gotten it right? 🤔
Since we believe in the "God head", not the TRINITY, LDS are not technically "Christian". The definition of Christian is believing in the Trinity. 52 Churches 52 weeks was excellent. I knew he would be baptized when he saw the Cardinal in the Temple. Keep up the good work, Really enjoy your presentations.
6:30 "...that all could be wrong" but they were all Christian, and all were rejected by Smith, but NONE were rejected by God. We know for a fact that Jesus promised the Holy Spirit to us and that He never left us. Therefore, the person(age) in the vision was not Christ DOUBLE. For because it was a vision, second because He lied. 7:00 NONE of the Creeds at that time and place were abominations to God, we know this because *the Creeds ALL have Holy Bible verses backing them up.* They did not come up with the Creeds out of nowhere. Did some have something in error? How would Joseph know? But if he did know, then he had the responsibility to prove it and to show it to them in the Holy Bible. He didn't do that. As far as we know, *at this point, Joseph Smith is NOT a Christian, so he does not, did not have the Holy Spirit in him.* Nor did he know or read the Holy Bible, and that would include ALL of God's prophets. 9:00 "Those professors are all corrupt..." said the NON-Christian, the guy without the Holy Spirit! Again, at this time, Joseph Smith did NOT claim to have the Holy Spirit. I'm not sure if he ever claimed this, but certainly not then. *We have no record of Joseph Smith confessing his sins to God, accepting Jesus Christ as His Lord and Savior, giving his life to God, or being baptized into the Spirit of God.* When it comes to Joseph Smith and his will, God instantly shows and forgives them. No confession or repentance required, completely not Christian.
@@Brother-Jacob At the time, Joseph Smith was just a kid -- to the very best of our knowledge, a pagan. Not a Christian, no Holy Spirit. And he never claimed otherwise. Furthermore, we can match all the creeds to verses in the Holy Bible and none of that would have been an abomination to God. If Joseph believed that anything was in error, had he been a Christian, it would have been his responsibility to have told them -- to go to the churches. Not to mention that there were holy men of God, not only in the area, but throughout the entire planet. They were speaking by the Holy Spirit the true Gospel of Christ, having revivals, risking their lives, and so on.
Big claims for someone who claims to be a Christian yet you judge Joseph Smith for saying he got it from God and Jesus Christ. Prove he didn't? Why are most Christian churches declining in Numbers but the LDS church is still growing? By their fruits ye shall know them. Trying to tell LDS People they aren't Christian is just telling me the you're not. Why not say it's great that were Christian and Trying to do Jesus Christ's will?
@@wheels636 Prove to anyone, yourself included, that my testimony is not greater than Joseph Smiths. After all, I didn't see God and Jesus in vision, but in person. If you cannot accept my testimony, how shall you accept the lesser testimony of Smith?
I'm a disciple of Jesus Christ. I follow Him and I follow His teachings. Nobody gets to decide what I am. It's arrogant to tell others what they believe.
You are partly correct. However, for consistency, the English language has rules. All must abide by those rules or there is anarchy. "Christian" has a definition that is contrary to what LDS believe. I don't consider myself "Christian" yet I believe in Christ who is a completely separate entity from God.
@@madogg152 They have no clue that it was unbelievers who mocked those who followed Christ and labelled them as Christians and that is why we only see 3 times there’s a reference of that label in the New Testament.
However, throughout the Bible, Old Testament and New Testament Prophets and Apostles referenced true believes and disciples of Christ as only SAINTS 95 TIMES. The naysayers are ferocious as being the gate keeper of a man made name “Christian” that God doesn’t even recognize us as. You take the last book of the Bible, Revelation, that are prophesies of the end times and every reference to God’s people are the SAINTS. While the haters are fighting over and casting judgement as to who is a Christian and who is not, God have rested on calling his true believers SAINTS.🙏🏽😁
The best part about being a Mormon, is having people telling me what I believe.
@RealLadyG not to bad. I think you point to the real gospel. We all believe in Christ.
@@MichaelGMoney And, lest you forget, most Mormons did not know what they believe.
They think we’re wrong about Christ so they say we’re not Christian. We think they’re wrong about Christ (the Trinity) but we don’t say they’re not Christian. You know why? That wouldn’t be Christian.
Resident Atheist here.
LDS People are most definitely Christian in the general sense of the term.
They are also not orthodox Christian.
Good video.
What's an Orthodox Christian? Start with Christ's followers. :>)
@@godsoffspring4195 Obviously there's a general, historical, normative Christianity that historians would point to as Orthodox. It's not perfectly defined, as there are some variations over time, but the central dogma is consistent.
1) There is one God.
2) God created all by the Word (YHWH).
3) Man has fallen as a result of Garden Narrative.
4) A savior is required.
5) Jesus, who is God, incarnate, is that savior.
6) Jesus paid the complete penalty for all sin.
7) He overcame death on the third day.
8) All who believe in him are saved from sin, not by any meritorious thing they do, but by simple acceptance of the free, and unmerited, gift of grace.
That's the generally held definition of Orthodox Christianity.
@@rodneyjamesmcguire . Wait... that's what all Christians believe. LDS too but you said they're not orthodox. Also... I asked for a definition of what the first orthodox Christians would entail, let's say... in Paul's days?? In detail or general... what was a true Christian then and did 1-8 apply??
@@godsoffspring4195 Yes, generally that's what Orthodox Christians profess.
LDS don't believe in all of those main points.
@@rodneyjamesmcguire Yes they do. Especially generally. The fun fact is... not only did the very first Orthodox Christians believe all that.... the first ones were called Saints and believed what today's Saints believe. You seem a tad confused, brah.
Only 3 times Christian (s) mentioned in the New Testament. The word “Christian” was used by unbelievers to mock followers of Christ . However “Saints” is mentioned about 95 times by the Apostles and Prophets in The New Testament and Old Testament throughout the Bible. God sees us as Saints, not Christians.
Categorically false.
Acts 11:26
Ephesians 2:19, lets remove the word Saints in the new testament . So that i will be categorically false. @@rodneyjamesmcguire
@@kaduyantv2857 I never said the NT doesn't say that the early Christians we also called Saints. So again, you're making another categorical error.
The early Saints did indeed call themselves Christian.
@@rodneyjamesmcguireI appreciate you standing up for what you believe. Kudos.
You'd need more scriptures, though, to declare a statement categorically false:
Categorically False = all/many components (variables) of the point of contention (typically, a multi-variable narrative) are False.
You probably meant "flawed." Note my comment below.
Hi! Nice comment, but I will have to check the NT a bit more to agree with you.
You might be thinking of a beautiful scripture from the Book of Mormon (look for the word "Christian"):
12 And it came to pass that he rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it-In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children-and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.
13 And he fastened on his head-plate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren, so long as there should a band of Christians remain to possess the land-
14 For thus were all the true believers of Christ, who belonged to the church of God, called by those who did not belong to the church.
15 And those who did belong to the church were faithful; yea, all those who were true believers in Christ took upon them, gladly, the name of Christ, or Christians as they were called, because of their belief in Christ who should come.
16 And therefore, at this time, Moroni prayed that the cause of the Christians, and the freedom of the land might be favored.
--Alma 46
I think Latter-day Saints should also be good with the moniker of "Christian."
Great video!
Thanks for sharing ❤
LDS members are more Christian than those who clam we are not. Christ means anointed. LDS members are anointed after baptism and there are temple ordinances that involve anointing. Hence, LDS are Christians…anointed with oil to take upon us Christ’s name and do his will.
Mehh
You're absolutely right!
Only their biggest people get to be anointed such as king Charles. But in our _more_ Christian faith, the blessings are for *_everyone_* who is worthy.
@rconger24 you can buy anything with money. $=blessings
Chrismation "anointing" exists in both Orthodox and Western Catholicism.
Thank you. Much of the early church members came out of protestantism. My paternal grandmother and mother were both converts, both who were previously presbyterian. I am so grateful that i did not grow up confused by the doctrine of trinity. I am not speaking ill of our Christian Protestant brethren. I respect their belief system. But I'm grateful for the restoration of priesthood power and government, for prophets and apostles chosen by God and not man, and I'm thankful for the gift of the Holy Ghost. Thank you for sharing your video. And of course we are Christian. That term is not owned by Protestants. But im happy to share that name with them. Im also happy to share the additional truths restored through the prophet Joseph Smith and Peter, James, and John as well as by Elijah and John the Baptist.
My good Brother. The naysayers fail to recognize that throughout the Bible, The Old Testament and New Testament Prophets and Apostles have referenced at least 95 times in the King James Version of the Bible that true believers are Saints, not Christians. They ignore the fact that followers of Christ in the NT was labelled Christian(s) by unbelievers just to mock them. Yet we are Latter-Day Saints representing God as his true disciples and ironically they are ravenous wolves adopting a nick name that is not an official name from God.
THANK GOD WE ARE HIS TRUE SAINTS AND SINCE WE ARE ALSO TRUE FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST, NO-ONE CAN DENY US AS CHRISTIANS AS WELL. THE TRUTH SHALL SET THEM FREE FROM THE LIES OF THE DEVIL.🙏🏽
@@RealLadyG Why are you focused on that pointless nonsense?
1Peter 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
The disciples of Christ were called Christians, which means "those who follow the anointed one." They are also saints because saints, in context, mean "sanctified [made holy] people of God".
Jesus was also called "Christ", the Messiah, the Anointed One. We are to take up our cross daily and follow Him.
@@ts-900 Why are you so focused on causing confusion, contention and strife overtaking everyone’s comments and slandering what they believe, meanwhile you are categorically bearing false witness. Calm down and go seek Truth through sincere prayer and fasting so you can come out of the darkness into the light!!!
Don’t let satan use you to do his bidding. Furthermore, it is clear that you don’t want to accept the truth. Don’t you know that the truth shall set you free!!!
Let me restate 1 last time what you are blind to comprehend. Those whom have ears to hear will hear and those whom have eyes to see will see.
It was unbelievers, naysayers who mocked those who followed Christ and labelled them as Christians and that is why we only see in, only, The New Testament, 3 times there’s a reference of that label “Christian(s)”. Know and understand the difference.
Throughout the Bible, Old Testament and New Testament Prophets and Apostles referenced true believes and disciples of Christ as only SAINTS, 95 TIMES. Y’all naysayers are ferocious as being the gate keeper of a man made name “Christian” that God doesn’t even recognize us as. You take the last book of the Bible, Revelation, that are prophesies of the end times and every reference to God’s people are SAINTS. While you continue to fight in vain and casting judgement as to who is a Christian and who is not, God have rested on calling his true believers SAINTS.
I would rather be recognized by God’s words as one of his Covenanted SAINTS than the words of those men whom coined the phrase “Christian” to mock those whom truly follow Christ. That being said, I will still accept the man made label as I’m a Christian also. I’m not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Praying for you.🙏🏽
There is another EXTREMELY important element from verse 19 that is often overlooked. And it is in reference to identifying the “professors [who] were all corrupt.” Which professors were all corrupt? “THOSE professors were all corrupt.” The qualification of “those” ministers was specific. Jesus did not say, “ALL professors were […] corrupt,” it was just “THOSE professors [who] were all corrupt.” This is important because the Lord was being particular. He was referring to the ministers and professors of the various denominations IN PALMYRA and its environs with whom Joseph and his family had had dealings. Those ministers were engaged in the furor of the Second Great Awakening. Their good feelings towards one another “if there ever was any,” were “more pretended than real,” as people “filed off” to one sect or the other. They were inducing great divisiveness within the community. The Savior never said that ALL professors were corrupt. He didn’t exclude the possibility that other professors were also corrupt. But he was clearly referring to those local professors specifically, and not all professors generally. And I think that often gets lost in the retelling.
Thankyou Edwin. Great stuff!!
Brother Patterson: the way I see it, I am not a Christian - rather, I am a Latter-day Saint. To say I am a Christian only invites confusion, or Evangelical assault. I was raised Protestant, but I now have no desire to identify with 4th century church entrails and apostate Christianity. Just one view from our pew.
In 1 Corinthians, Paul calls all Believers “saints”:
“To the church of God which is in Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, the called saints, with all those who call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place, who is theirs and ours.”
EXACTLY. AMEN!!! 95 Times throughout the Bible, both Old Testament and New Testament the Prophets and Apostles only referenced true disciples and believers as SAINTS. The word Christian only mentioned 3 times in only The New Testament and it was the unbelievers who came with the name Christian to mock those who followed Christ.
Great video Edwin I am looking forward watching the rest of your videos. I am into LDS apologetics.
Thank you so much for your videos! They are great!!
truly that was Christ that spoke to Joseph - His words cut perfectly to the Truth
Great video and explanation!
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and approve of this message.
Hi Ed!! How are you doing? We certainly do believe in Christ and we try very hard to follow him! Why? Because we love him so dearly. People who say that about us (generally speaking) don't know us and maybe they don't know Christ either.
As a Latter-day Saint, If Christ cared about us being called Christians HE would of called his Church The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Christian but… 🤷🏻♂️🙄
I kind of doubt he called the church of his time The Church of Christ.
@@Telavian why do you doubt?
@@peter10562 They were the people of God.
@@Telavian If the church belongs to Christ, why would it be called by any other name? Jesus even said render to Caesar what is Caesar’s.
Can I call your house my house when it doesn’t belong to me? Ponder on that. Notice all the false churches do not carry the name of Jesus Christ. What does that tell you? They are churches of the devil pretending to be churches of Jesus Christ. The one and only The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints
Although it's an interesting debate to see what category The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints falls in, I think what’s more important to the Savior is coming to realize the Church is His.
You don’t need to prove to anyone that Lds members are Christians . We believe in Christ and that’s all they need to know .
Christians are those that love, for those that love know God, and those that love in that manner will obtain life eternal. Paul was pretty clear about it, even if someone is the most devout Christian, having faith to move mountains, knowing all of Gods Mysteries, sacrificing all he can, its all worth nothing without charity. So charity is what matters most and what defines a Christian.. Funny enought while I served my mission I found atheists seemed more Christlike than many Christians :)
I have read or listened to so many talks on why the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is not Christian I have lost count. And they are correct we are not Christian by their definition. Nor should we concern ourselves about it. Christ himself said their creeds are wrong. Why would we want to be like them?
Except we were told this by Joseph Smith, not by Christ. We know for a fact that this is a lie because Jesus gave His Holy Spirit to watch over us, to be with us until the day of our redemption. Remember, Joseph Smith was NOT a Christian when we made this claim, nor did he claim to be a Christian. Furthermore, his statements suggested that he did not want to be a Christian. He made no claims, that I know of, to be filled with the Holy Ghost at that time.
Not to mention, that ALL the evidence pointed to the fact that the churches were Christians. There were many sincerely holy men of God preaching at the time, and carrying out revivals for Christ, being persecuted for Christ. These were men filled by the Holy Spirit of God.
Joseph was just a boy who hadn't even heard, read, or accepted the prophets of God -- in fact, by making these claims, he rejected all the prophets with no evidence.
Except we were told this by Joseph Smith, not by Jesus Christ. We know for a fact that this is a lie because Jesus gave His Holy Spirit to watch over us, to be with us until the day of our redemption. Remember, Joseph Smith was NOT a Christian when he made this claim, nor did he claim to be a Christian. Furthermore, his statements suggested that he did not want to be a Christian. He made no claims, that I know of, this he was filled with the Holy Ghost at that time.
I am do not see how you come to the conclusion Joseph Smith was not a Christian. He was asking God a question which he was encouraged to do from a Bible verse. Your last statement about Joseph Smith and the Holy Ghost makes no sense, maybe you should reword it.
@@ts-900 We are only told what Jesus said and did by the gospel writers not by Christ himself. Why should I believe them and not Joseph Smith?
@@caseykaelin9430 Well, I am not the best communicator, but it should make a lot of sense to you.
There are NO records, evidence, documentation, etc. that Joseph Smith claims to have been a Christian at that time.
And he cannot be a true Christian without the Holy Spirit. And we know that Joseph Smith did not claim to have the Holy Spirit either.
So, at that time, he's not a Christian, does not have the Holy Spirit in the best case scenario.
52 churches in 52 weeks was raised Protestant, Lutheran not Catholic. Just a friendly correction.
Thanks agian:)
Hi, Edwin. I enjoy your channel. It is easy to make a case that “Their creeds” are indeed abominations. Joseph Smith, Sr. was upset by one of those ministers because that minister insisted that Alvin was damned to eternal hell because Alvin Smith had not been baptized before he died. I myself taught a lady in California in the early 70’s who, even after ten years, she was inconsolable about her little son’s death because her minister told her the same evil nonsense that minister had told the Smith family. Sampson slew a thousand Philistines with the jawbone of an ass. Over the years how many tender grieving souls have been destroyed by the same weapon? If that is not an abomination, I’m hard pressed to define what is. The same thing can be said about the other stupid apostate creeds still being foisted on Christendom. I don’t feel I am obligated to talk nice to monumental ignorance and stupidity. I don’t feel obligated to tolerate ignorance and stupidity.
Liked this! Keep it coming please and thank you. ♡ (Candygram)
In the Creation we see the Trinity at Work
*Genesis Verse 1* God Created the Heavens & Earth
*Genesis 1:2* God the Spirit is Hoovering over the Great Deep
*Genesis 1:3-25* Gods WORD speaks Everything into being ( *John 1:1-5* )
*Genesis 1:26-27*
God the Father/Son Makes Man in his Own Image then breaths into his Nostrils the breath of Life (Holy Spirit) Man becomes a Living being
🕊️ *Praise Yeshua Ha-MaShiach* 🕊️
@JRTIGER07. Get out of here with that heretic nonsense made up by man….Trinity. 🤦🏾♀️🤣You should follow the Bible which says GODHEAD!!!
This was great
Edwin, are you a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
Noone knew about this story for two decades when he decided to make it up and retrofit it into church history and doctone. His very first account didnt have two personages appearing. The many accounts evolved throughout his life until the LDS church settled on the 1838 rendition. It's just one of the many numerous fabricated stores of Mormonism. Having been LDS myself for 60 years, I praise God daily for opening up my eyes to the truth. I do believe Latter-day Saints can act like a Christian should, but Mormonism is not biblical Christianity.
Didn't you listen to what he said? Prove we aren't as Christian as you claim to be. It's no me telling you your not a Christian It's you. How Christian is that?
Of course LDS aren't Biblical Christianity. LDS don't believe in "Trinity" which is the definition of Christian.
Christian was a word used by unbelievers to mock those who follow Christ. However throughout the entire Bible Old Testament and New Testament Prophets and Apostles refer to true believers as Saints. Know the difference and stop listening to the enemy who is the devil. It’s dangerous to risk your own Salvation leaning unto your own understanding.
Do not reject what you don’t understand. Always take it up with God through prayer and even fasting. God warned you to avoid being deceived by Satan leading you away with his lies. Praying for you. God also prophesied that in these last days good will be called bad and bad will be called good. Do you even realize that though Jesus was amongst many people, they allowed the devil to lead them astray by calling Jesus the devil and they eventually crucified him. Don’t fall into the enemy’s trap. Praying for you. Think Celestial.🙏🏽
So, where did you end up after leaving the Mormon Church? When your eyes were opened, where did you land?
@Fairfacts probably kicking the sharp places like Paul before he woke up to the Truth of what he'd done.
People just want to make false accusations against LDS church any think that comes to their mind which is not true they love to give a little truth and little lie satan methods of deceiving non believers think they know everything about the lord's kingdom.yet God and Jesus Christ they have reveled many things partaining who they are and how we can become like them and how we can become God's.any thing people speak against LDS church doesn't shake my faith.the only source I rely on is heavenly father and Jesus Christ and living prophet and apostles.
I believe in the physical death burial and resurrection of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. The only way to the father is through relationship with Jesus. I don't believe that when I die I will become a god or live on a planet or be in plural marriage. Those beliefs contradict the Bible and therefore are not Christian beliefs. I don't believe that I have to earn salvation because Jesus paid the price for my sins through his physical death burial and resurrection. I believe that when I die I will be with Jesus for eternity worshiping him forever because I have accepted him as my savior and Lord. I serve Jesus because I love him but not because I'm trying to do enough good works to earn favor or earn salvation. False religions depend on a good works but how can the person know that they've done enough good work to earn salvation? Christians believe that Jesus paid the price and completed the work when he said " it is finished."
Your Jesus is not God .Mine is and He is God the second person of the Holy Trinity
We are not Christian we are Latter Day Saints.
All that talk is waste of time..who's God and why I'm here on earth...that's a worthy subject..
I would agree. If the Book of Mormon stands then Joseph stands. At least, in part. Problem is that the BoM doesn't stand on anything.
When the first Jews became Christians, they didn't rename themselves. It was a name given to them. The way they saw themselves were Jews. The Messiah had come. But with that being said, they were so different then the historical Jew that they were given a different name. Otherwise there would be confusion. The same goes for Mormonism now. It strays so far from historical Christianity that I can't in good faith call it Christian. Not only does it preach a Jesus that is so far removed from mine, it just muddies the water. There is enough distinction to merit a different name. At best I will call Mormons a sect of Christianity.
we'll call you an incomplete christian lacking the fullness of the gospel of jesus christ. name calling can go both ways.
@@Frogman1943 You already do, so it doesn't hurt my feelings. That is what you believe. I don't think of it as an insult. My beliefs are that Mormons don't present a real picture of Jesus but rather a picture created by a false prophet. I don't mean it to be insulting. Its just what is.
@@blusheep2 do you have LDS people name call you in person, or like this on youtube or another internet version of communication? I havent known of many fellow LDS members that are not young kids purposely insult or argue with others on religion. we are actually taught early on not to do so, since the argument doesnt bring the spirit of the Lord and it leads to nowhere. a discussion is one thing, but an argument changes the tone and ultimately does nothing positive.
@@Frogman1943 I do not. I have atheists insult me all the time. I have Muslims insult me occasionally and usually passive aggressively. I do not have LDS do the same thing. That being said, its really difficult to get an LDS to engage in a discussion in the first place so my sample size is pretty low.
In my personal opinion.... The reason you are taught not to do so is because Mormonism isn't an easy religion to defend. There is more risk to you as a Mormon then there is to me as a Christian in such engagements.
Personally, I don't want to insult anyone. That isn't walking in the Spirit. I do care about people's souls though. I think these issues are important enough to talk about because its the difference of being a part of God's kingdom or not. Sometimes, hard things need to be said. They aren't hard things for me to hear but might be hard for you to hear. That may come across then, as aggressive when its not aggressive at all. Its just blunt.
@blusheep2 actually the lord is the reason why we don't insult/ name call anyone. "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples if ye have love one to another" .... in reality that should tell you just as the Lord says who is really his disciples, yet everyone turns a cheek and ignores that verse.
If you read the 1832 First Vision account. The only account written in Joseph's own handwritting it would conform more to the Christian view of God. Joseph only see's Jesus Christ. Not two Gods. If this account had not been changed to the 1838 First Vision used in the history. Joseph may have been accepted as a Christian, biblical view of God. In addition the BOM has all over it that Jesus is our Eternal Father. I don't think we should fault Christians when we may have not gotten it right? 🤔
We are *_non-nicene_* Christians.
ROMANS 11:6
It's not the deep.
Since we believe in the "God head", not the TRINITY, LDS are not technically "Christian". The definition of Christian is believing in the Trinity. 52 Churches 52 weeks was excellent. I knew he would be baptized when he saw the Cardinal in the Temple. Keep up the good work, Really enjoy your presentations.
False. That's not the definition of Christian.
liar
6:30 "...that all could be wrong" but they were all Christian, and all were rejected by Smith, but NONE were rejected by God. We know for a fact that Jesus promised the Holy Spirit to us and that He never left us. Therefore, the person(age) in the vision was not Christ DOUBLE. For because it was a vision, second because He lied.
7:00 NONE of the Creeds at that time and place were abominations to God, we know this because *the Creeds ALL have Holy Bible verses backing them up.* They did not come up with the Creeds out of nowhere. Did some have something in error? How would Joseph know? But if he did know, then he had the responsibility to prove it and to show it to them in the Holy Bible. He didn't do that.
As far as we know, *at this point, Joseph Smith is NOT a Christian, so he does not, did not have the Holy Spirit in him.* Nor did he know or read the Holy Bible, and that would include ALL of God's prophets.
9:00 "Those professors are all corrupt..." said the NON-Christian, the guy without the Holy Spirit! Again, at this time, Joseph Smith did NOT claim to have the Holy Spirit. I'm not sure if he ever claimed this, but certainly not then.
*We have no record of Joseph Smith confessing his sins to God, accepting Jesus Christ as His Lord and Savior, giving his life to God, or being baptized into the Spirit of God.* When it comes to Joseph Smith and his will, God instantly shows and forgives them. No confession or repentance required, completely not Christian.
???
@@Brother-Jacob At the time, Joseph Smith was just a kid -- to the very best of our knowledge, a pagan. Not a Christian, no Holy Spirit. And he never claimed otherwise.
Furthermore, we can match all the creeds to verses in the Holy Bible and none of that would have been an abomination to God.
If Joseph believed that anything was in error, had he been a Christian, it would have been his responsibility to have told them -- to go to the churches.
Not to mention that there were holy men of God, not only in the area, but throughout the entire planet. They were speaking by the Holy Spirit the true Gospel of Christ, having revivals, risking their lives, and so on.
Big claims for someone who claims to be a Christian yet you judge Joseph Smith for saying he got it from God and Jesus Christ. Prove he didn't? Why are most Christian churches declining in Numbers but the LDS church is still growing? By their fruits ye shall know them. Trying to tell LDS People they aren't Christian is just telling me the you're not. Why not say it's great that were Christian and Trying to do Jesus Christ's will?
@@wheels636 Prove to anyone, yourself included, that my testimony is not greater than Joseph Smiths. After all, I didn't see God and Jesus in vision, but in person.
If you cannot accept my testimony, how shall you accept the lesser testimony of Smith?
@@ts-900 see my reply. I trust Jesus Christ not you.