These are pretty good rules. I like the term "Crew Fatigue". I would prefer as system for the 1st Phase; Naval Battle to be a little more game system agnostic. Something that can be used with D&D (any addition )/ Pathfinder (1e or 2e) / OSR games. Your system is pretty close but there are some references. It is a common tactic to target the opposing ship's sails. Take out the sails and the ship is dead in the water. also, they are a big, soft target. That provision should be part of any simple naval battle rules. If you are using gun powder, for a somewhat more involved upgrade to the rules, different ammunition was used: Cannonballs for structural damage, Chain Shot for the sails, Grape Shot for the crew on deck. Wind direction. A ship has its speed but if it is sailing with the wind it can be up to 50% faster. You can not sail into the wind (you have to tack into the wind). This adds a little bit of strategy. You can also "steal" the opposing ship's wind but that is getting quite granular. Divide the ship into a few zones and if the ship gets hit roll to see which zone took the hit. If their is a player standing there give them a saving throw to see if they got out of the way. This can obviously get more involved now but maybe added to a supplement.
I love this, David and I will go back to the drawing table at some point soon and bring an update/finally get that printable rules doc out in a week or two!
One way to combine the ship initiative with the boarding phase is to have the ship take its actions on initiative 20 (lose ties), similar to lair actions. Then at init 20 the ship that was first in the side initiative acts first. This way you could still do dramatic maneuvers where the boarded ship tries to break off while its being boarded and the boarding crew needs to decide if they stay or make ti for their own ship. Some added weapon specific rules could be that certain weapons can't be fired while boarding (e.g. mangonels) while others have advantage at point blank if they are facing the boarded ship (e.g cannons). Perhaps ballistas could be aimed at crew during this phase. If you want to simplify the ship turns for the boarding phase you can rule that during the boarding phase the ship can either 1) try to move out by its speed or 2) use 1 of its weapons to attack. This way the ship turns won't take for ages in the hand-to-hand combat if the ship has several weapons equipped. And if its possible to escape boarding there should be methods to prevent it. Cue in SHIP GRAPPLING. There could be an item (or just standard epuipment for all ships) that the ship can use to grapple another ship. When a ship comes within 5ft of another ship they can launch their grappling hooks and try to attempt to grapple the enemy ship. This could either be an auto-success or be tied to a Crew roll or an officers Persuasion/Sleight of Hand/etc. roll against the ships grapple DC (maybe a set of standard DCs based on ships size, speed or weight etc.). This way the crew of the boarded ship must first remove the grappling hooks in order to use the ship's movement to maneuver away. Thanks for this video. It was really great and got my designer juices flowing. 😁✨
I love Spelljammer 2E & have been continually refining my homebrewed 5E version, there are many out there, and I will take all this on board too, thank you. In roll20 I put each deck level of the ship in a rollable table, I can select the whole ship with PC tokens on deck and group them to move around and ram into enemy... then i ungroup so PCs can move around, board the enemy, and move to the stairs and I choose the next level down, they continue moving thru the ship.
Nice job. Just what i needed for an upcoming session. I too enjoy snappy combat with as little crunch for the.players as possible. I think y'all hit a great balance with this rule set.
I truly enjoyed this video and rules edition. An outro would be cool too! I will be using the exhaustion rule tomorrow as i will be running my first ship combat ever!
@@greenandgarb so I adopted your system of exhaustion but kept the health in its divided category to test if that was too much to handle for the party (this is a BRAND new party to the game and I'm still a very amateur GM) They enjoy being able to target parts of the enemys ships, so I didnt want to remove that part. I would say it went very well, the player ship took %19 overall damage so not enough to hit any threshold, but the enemy ship was a great test bed for me as the DM to test the mechanics. I really enjoy the addition to my game and it will make my sea combat more flavorful I'm sure.
I've recently decided to add in taking water. Specifically, ships get holes in them every time they take damage. For each hole in the hull, the ship takes on water for 1 point of water per holes in the ship. Once the water level reaches the hit points of the ship, it begins to sink. The players can bale 1d4+strength bonus water points out and the Bilge/Bosun role can add their proficiency bonus to it. Npc crew can help as well taking 1 point of water for each crew helping. They can also repair holes adding hit points to the ship in the same way. Doing so also reduces the amount of water they take in per turn. I haven't been able to try it out yet with my group, but I played around with it on my own a bit.
in my game i would just call it the ship's "wear and tear"... I love this system! Is the document ready? Where should I look? Thank you so much! (just subbed... looking forward to see more!)
So this is a great framework that I'm going to build off of. I see the exhaustion table as a good starting place for effects that can happen randomly as you pass each threshold. Each time you pass into a, let's call it "Complication Threshold" you roll randomly to see what happens. Maybe it's crew morale dropping, or a powderkeg explodes dealing damage, or a mast falls, etc. But I don't think it should be the same at each 20% hit point drop.
Be interesting to apply those exhaustion rules to players normally. Always found it jarring that you can be 1 hp from death but still functioning at full capacity
@@greenandgarb if you’re still interested, it would be awesome to see you do a combat encounter using your method! I’ve haven’t seen anyone demonstrate what ship combat looks like at the table!
Questions: 1) Does.the fatigue on players from ship to ship combat carry over into a boarding encounter. 2) If so, does it.only apply to the defenders or - if its a product of the environment - does it also apply to the attackers? 3) If fatigue does carry over, is there.the option to hold crew members in reserve for the boarding action or ship defense - ie they take no actions during ship to ship but also receive no fatigue? 4) For sea combat, is there.the.option for players.tontarget individual crew members on the other ship? If so, how is this handled?
1. This video starts AWESOME! Love the Starfinder flub. Love the MissPrinted Saltmarsh! Love the T-Shirts! Love keeping it in line with D&D! 2. Do you have a document? 3. Do you use the old Exhaustion 1-6 or the new exhaustion 1-10? Does it work with both effectively or is it not harsh enough?
Thank you for your comment! The document should be in the description (Google drive). We're workshopping the new exhaustion rules and will hopefully make a follow up video!
I've looked for multiple ship combat rules systems since Spelljammer came out. The simplest and best approach I've found is to give half or more of the party mounts or personal vehicles and let the martial characters do all their martial stuff while zipping around the battle map on the back of a dragon, winged mammal, giant bug, flying surf board, or a turbine or rocket with a saddle strapped to it. ua-cam.com/video/iYZjxSgz1T8/v-deo.htmlsi=Nr3zCbgH4coat2j9 It might just be me, but damage thresholds make it so the PCs that get relegated to firing ballistas spend most of the combat missing with their attacks. Stacking exhaustion levels on everyone as the combat progresses seems like a great way to make combat take longer to slog through.
Had a thought. What if you had a malfunction threshold, similar to decent into avernus. As part of the threshold you have the exhaustion as like 1-5 on a d10 then the higher numbers be more specific situations.
I love most of your suggestions and agree sometimes you want ship-to-ship combat to run quickly, which your system seems to address well. My only concern is the 1/2 Max HP once the ship takes 80% damage, which I think is too severe. That is a massive amount of damage to a PC or NPC. I understand you want the players to feel the impact from the ship damage, but I'd prefer something that does not stick with the player (e.g., once they get off the ship). I'd like to try replacing that effect with a restriction to the number of actions a PC can take on a turn (e.g., no reactions or only one action per turn). Plus, if they get off the ship (e.g., jump onto the other ship) the effect goes away, unless that ship has a similar level of damage. Thoughts? As for your exhaustion/fatigue term, it sounds like you're referring to a ship's Inoperability Level, which makes it hard to get around and to work the systems thereon. Thanks for posting this. I would love to hear how your system ran during your games and whether you've made any tweaks.
When will there be a document with all of these rules? And where can I get it? Next these rules apply to both normal ship combat and spelljammer setting correct? If so in the document will there be two separate sections specific for normal ship and spelljammer ships?
The thing I'm struggling with in the rules currently printed, is there's a statblock rules for a single cannon / siege weapon (+x to hit xdx damage) but when it comes to ship actions "fire the weapon" and only lists a single weapon. so a (ballista equiped) Man-O-War style ship does the same attack as a galley or sailboat that only has one ballista. OR is it "fire the ballista" all on that side make their own attack and do their own damage?
I think it all comes down to facilitating player decision-making. What kinda actions do your players want to be doing during ship combat, and work backwards from there to give mechanical meaning to those decisions. HP of ships vs components, hardness, exhaustion. None of it matters unless it affects player decision making. - I feel like the mechanics that are laid down in this video are all shooting for creating immersion rather than creating interesting tactical decisions for the players to make. If I am honest, I think GM's often overestimate the impact that mechanics have on immersion. I wonder if this table might be better suited by just making ship combat a skill challenge. It would be much more fast paced and everyone's energy would be focused on the narrative and creating evocative descriptions, rather than on mechanical bookkeeping. Just my two cents
I like the exhaustion idea. Call it: Wear and Tear Now it can apply to any vehicle. Also, make it a random table you roll on at the desired percentages. The first 20% on this ship may be the sails while on another it may be just the railings causing chaos, and on another they may have hit a ballistae. That way if there’s multiple ships it’s a little more randomized and not so structured on what’s going on in battle.
@@EatdirtNstuff Vehicles Health States The Vehicle’s hp represents its conduction and performance. Apply each effect to the vehicle at different damage intervals. The effects last till the vehicle's hp is above its damage interval for that effect. Ships -20% Max hp: Disadvantage on crashing rolls and advantage crash rolls against your vehicle, -10ft on speed. -50% Max hp: The vehicle moves at Half speed and any Hazard Check made by the crew is at disadvantage. -80% Max hp: The vehicle speed turns to 0 and has disadvantage on any weapon attacks from equipment attached to the vehicle. -100% Max hp: The vehicle is destroyed and breaks apart. | There is no possible way to repair the vehicle Ship Repairs Nonmagical repairs to a damaged ship can be made while the vessel is berthed. “Repairing (1d8 + Required Tool check total + crew amount helping, to the hit points of damage to a berthed ship takes 1 day and costs 20 gp for materials and labor. Damage to shipboard weapons can be repaired just as quickly (1d8 + Required Tool check total + crew amount helping, hit points per day), but at half the cost (10 gp). The mending spell is a cheaper, less time-consuming way to make repairs. Casting mending on a damaged ship or shipboard weapon restores a number of hit points to the target equal to 1d8 plus the spellcaster’s spellcasting ability modifier. The target can regain hit points from that spell no more than once per hour. These are just simple rules i made off of this video.
@@greenandgarb If you google 7th sea quick start you can download the basic rules of the game to test it out. I have not played the game myself in almost 20 years now but the game is focused on adventures on a ship as a pirate so everything you do almost is about moving around on the ship and do different things.
Video summary: "So your boat is feeling tired, now what?" :3
Precisely 😂
These are pretty good rules.
I like the term "Crew Fatigue".
I would prefer as system for the 1st Phase; Naval Battle to be a little more game system agnostic. Something that can be used with D&D (any addition )/ Pathfinder (1e or 2e) / OSR games. Your system is pretty close but there are some references.
It is a common tactic to target the opposing ship's sails. Take out the sails and the ship is dead in the water. also, they are a big, soft target. That provision should be part of any simple naval battle rules.
If you are using gun powder, for a somewhat more involved upgrade to the rules, different ammunition was used: Cannonballs for structural damage, Chain Shot for the sails, Grape Shot for the crew on deck.
Wind direction. A ship has its speed but if it is sailing with the wind it can be up to 50% faster. You can not sail into the wind (you have to tack into the wind). This adds a little bit of strategy. You can also "steal" the opposing ship's wind but that is getting quite granular.
Divide the ship into a few zones and if the ship gets hit roll to see which zone took the hit. If their is a player standing there give them a saving throw to see if they got out of the way.
This can obviously get more involved now but maybe added to a supplement.
Those are some awesome ideas! Thanks for your input.
I love this, David and I will go back to the drawing table at some point soon and bring an update/finally get that printable rules doc out in a week or two!
One way to combine the ship initiative with the boarding phase is to have the ship take its actions on initiative 20 (lose ties), similar to lair actions. Then at init 20 the ship that was first in the side initiative acts first. This way you could still do dramatic maneuvers where the boarded ship tries to break off while its being boarded and the boarding crew needs to decide if they stay or make ti for their own ship.
Some added weapon specific rules could be that certain weapons can't be fired while boarding (e.g. mangonels) while others have advantage at point blank if they are facing the boarded ship (e.g cannons). Perhaps ballistas could be aimed at crew during this phase.
If you want to simplify the ship turns for the boarding phase you can rule that during the boarding phase the ship can either 1) try to move out by its speed or 2) use 1 of its weapons to attack. This way the ship turns won't take for ages in the hand-to-hand combat if the ship has several weapons equipped.
And if its possible to escape boarding there should be methods to prevent it. Cue in SHIP GRAPPLING. There could be an item (or just standard epuipment for all ships) that the ship can use to grapple another ship. When a ship comes within 5ft of another ship they can launch their grappling hooks and try to attempt to grapple the enemy ship. This could either be an auto-success or be tied to a Crew roll or an officers Persuasion/Sleight of Hand/etc. roll against the ships grapple DC (maybe a set of standard DCs based on ships size, speed or weight etc.). This way the crew of the boarded ship must first remove the grappling hooks in order to use the ship's movement to maneuver away.
Thanks for this video. It was really great and got my designer juices flowing. 😁✨
I love Spelljammer 2E & have been continually refining my homebrewed 5E version, there are many out there, and I will take all this on board too, thank you.
In roll20 I put each deck level of the ship in a rollable table, I can select the whole ship with PC tokens on deck and group them to move around and ram into enemy... then i ungroup so PCs can move around, board the enemy, and move to the stairs and I choose the next level down, they continue moving thru the ship.
That's actually incredible! Would like to see that in action.
Here's to hoping this one gets another episode some day. Sunscribed and watching patiently.
Nice job. Just what i needed for an upcoming session. I too enjoy snappy combat with as little crunch for the.players as possible. I think y'all hit a great balance with this rule set.
I truly enjoyed this video and rules edition.
An outro would be cool too! I will be using the exhaustion rule tomorrow as i will be running my first ship combat ever!
That's awesome! Let us know how it went.
@@greenandgarb so I adopted your system of exhaustion but kept the health in its divided category to test if that was too much to handle for the party (this is a BRAND new party to the game and I'm still a very amateur GM) They enjoy being able to target parts of the enemys ships, so I didnt want to remove that part.
I would say it went very well, the player ship took %19 overall damage so not enough to hit any threshold, but the enemy ship was a great test bed for me as the DM to test the mechanics. I really enjoy the addition to my game and it will make my sea combat more flavorful I'm sure.
I've recently decided to add in taking water. Specifically, ships get holes in them every time they take damage. For each hole in the hull, the ship takes on water for 1 point of water per holes in the ship. Once the water level reaches the hit points of the ship, it begins to sink. The players can bale 1d4+strength bonus water points out and the Bilge/Bosun role can add their proficiency bonus to it. Npc crew can help as well taking 1 point of water for each crew helping.
They can also repair holes adding hit points to the ship in the same way. Doing so also reduces the amount of water they take in per turn. I haven't been able to try it out yet with my group, but I played around with it on my own a bit.
I do like the idea of bringing exhaustion into it though. That's fun!
Here is where the Cleric's Lower Water spell really shines! GM: your hull is basically a colander, Cleric: Hold my beer!
this is actually brilliant
I guess titanic rolled a Nat 1 on its death saving throws
in my game i would just call it the ship's "wear and tear"... I love this system! Is the document ready? Where should I look? Thank you so much!
(just subbed... looking forward to see more!)
Rules Doc: drive.google.com/file/d/1_Yg8BmbHfPon3bfCAueC7UrcE-eouc_D/view?usp=drivesdk
Love all the ideas thank you for the mind fuel
Thank you guys, this is exactly what i need for my campaign💚
How does this have so few likes when this is amazing!
Thank you!
So this is a great framework that I'm going to build off of. I see the exhaustion table as a good starting place for effects that can happen randomly as you pass each threshold. Each time you pass into a, let's call it "Complication Threshold" you roll randomly to see what happens. Maybe it's crew morale dropping, or a powderkeg explodes dealing damage, or a mast falls, etc. But I don't think it should be the same at each 20% hit point drop.
*furiously studies for next session*
Smart move, you get an A!
thank you! I'm gonna try this
Be interesting to apply those exhaustion rules to players normally. Always found it jarring that you can be 1 hp from death but still functioning at full capacity
This was by far the best rules I saw for ship combat. I’ve stopped on websites, bookstores, and FINALLY found myself here. My players thank you
Thank you, that means alot to us! Is there anything else you would like for us to cover?
@@greenandgarb if you’re still interested, it would be awesome to see you do a combat encounter using your method! I’ve haven’t seen anyone demonstrate what ship combat looks like at the table!
Here is the rules doc: drive.google.com/file/d/1_Yg8BmbHfPon3bfCAueC7UrcE-eouc_D/view?usp=drivesdk
@@greenandgarb YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST
this is my first day of preparing my campaign using the rules you have created for ship combat. i look forward to keeping you updated on the progress
Questions:
1) Does.the fatigue on players from ship to ship combat carry over into a boarding encounter.
2) If so, does it.only apply to the defenders or - if its a product of the environment - does it also apply to the attackers?
3) If fatigue does carry over, is there.the option to hold crew members in reserve for the boarding action or ship defense - ie they take no actions during ship to ship but also receive no fatigue?
4) For sea combat, is there.the.option for players.tontarget individual crew members on the other ship? If so, how is this handled?
1. This video starts AWESOME! Love the Starfinder flub. Love the MissPrinted Saltmarsh! Love the T-Shirts! Love keeping it in line with D&D!
2. Do you have a document?
3. Do you use the old Exhaustion 1-6 or the new exhaustion 1-10? Does it work with both effectively or is it not harsh enough?
Thank you for your comment! The document should be in the description (Google drive). We're workshopping the new exhaustion rules and will hopefully make a follow up video!
Did you ever complete the exhaustion idea video?
I've looked for multiple ship combat rules systems since Spelljammer came out. The simplest and best approach I've found is to give half or more of the party mounts or personal vehicles and let the martial characters do all their martial stuff while zipping around the battle map on the back of a dragon, winged mammal, giant bug, flying surf board, or a turbine or rocket with a saddle strapped to it.
ua-cam.com/video/iYZjxSgz1T8/v-deo.htmlsi=Nr3zCbgH4coat2j9
It might just be me, but damage thresholds make it so the PCs that get relegated to firing ballistas spend most of the combat missing with their attacks. Stacking exhaustion levels on everyone as the combat progresses seems like a great way to make combat take longer to slog through.
Had a thought. What if you had a malfunction threshold, similar to decent into avernus. As part of the threshold you have the exhaustion as like 1-5 on a d10 then the higher numbers be more specific situations.
SHip morale is a good term
Sounds like an actual D&D mechanic!
The exhaustion should be morale
Great vid! Definitely using bits of this! Any update on that rule doc?
So sorry for the delay! Here is the completed document: drive.google.com/file/d/1_Yg8BmbHfPon3bfCAueC7UrcE-eouc_D/view?usp=drivesdk
Maybe as the ship gets weaker, the damage threshold could get lower
Great rules! Did you write up your rules and share them yet?
Here they are! drive.google.com/file/d/1_Yg8BmbHfPon3bfCAueC7UrcE-eouc_D/view?usp=drivesdk
It might just be me, but you two look a suprising amount like Montaron and Xzar from Baldurs Gate.
That tracks! Looking forward to Baldur's Gate 3, now that you mention it.
@@greenandgarb Me too. Thank y'all for the great video, and have a great day 👍
I love most of your suggestions and agree sometimes you want ship-to-ship combat to run quickly, which your system seems to address well. My only concern is the 1/2 Max HP once the ship takes 80% damage, which I think is too severe. That is a massive amount of damage to a PC or NPC. I understand you want the players to feel the impact from the ship damage, but I'd prefer something that does not stick with the player (e.g., once they get off the ship). I'd like to try replacing that effect with a restriction to the number of actions a PC can take on a turn (e.g., no reactions or only one action per turn). Plus, if they get off the ship (e.g., jump onto the other ship) the effect goes away, unless that ship has a similar level of damage. Thoughts? As for your exhaustion/fatigue term, it sounds like you're referring to a ship's Inoperability Level, which makes it hard to get around and to work the systems thereon. Thanks for posting this. I would love to hear how your system ran during your games and whether you've made any tweaks.
Great feedback and tips! We have a follow up planned that could address some of these concerns!
Is your rules document going to be available anywhere?
Yes! We are working on it and will post it as soon as we can.
@@greenandgarb where would it be? Reddit? Dms guild?
Some say they're still working on it to this day.
Rules Doc drive.google.com/file/d/1_Yg8BmbHfPon3bfCAueC7UrcE-eouc_D/view?usp=drivesdk
When will there be a document with all of these rules? And where can I get it? Next these rules apply to both normal ship combat and spelljammer setting correct? If so in the document will there be two separate sections specific for normal ship and spelljammer ships?
Doc is finished! drive.google.com/file/d/1_Yg8BmbHfPon3bfCAueC7UrcE-eouc_D/view?usp=drivesdk
The thing I'm struggling with in the rules currently printed, is there's a statblock rules for a single cannon / siege weapon (+x to hit xdx damage) but when it comes to ship actions "fire the weapon" and only lists a single weapon. so a (ballista equiped) Man-O-War style ship does the same attack as a galley or sailboat that only has one ballista.
OR is it "fire the ballista" all on that side make their own attack and do their own damage?
I think it all comes down to facilitating player decision-making. What kinda actions do your players want to be doing during ship combat, and work backwards from there to give mechanical meaning to those decisions.
HP of ships vs components, hardness, exhaustion. None of it matters unless it affects player decision making.
-
I feel like the mechanics that are laid down in this video are all shooting for creating immersion rather than creating interesting tactical decisions for the players to make. If I am honest, I think GM's often overestimate the impact that mechanics have on immersion.
I wonder if this table might be better suited by just making ship combat a skill challenge. It would be much more fast paced and everyone's energy would be focused on the narrative and creating evocative descriptions, rather than on mechanical bookkeeping.
Just my two cents
Is that a teeVillain tee?!
We got it at gencon so I don't recall at this time, but we do love some geek tees!
I like the exhaustion idea.
Call it: Wear and Tear
Now it can apply to any vehicle.
Also, make it a random table you roll on at the desired percentages.
The first 20% on this ship may be the sails while on another it may be just the railings causing chaos, and on another they may have hit a ballistae.
That way if there’s multiple ships it’s a little more randomized and not so structured on what’s going on in battle.
Please, listen to the experts! ❤
"Exhaust ship"?
A good name for what you could call this should be simple so how about. "Ship's Health Stage" or "Ship Statis"
Great options, thank you!
@@greenandgarb ive made my own sheet and rules based off this video so its a big help!! Thanks for the video!
@@darkenturtle8726 Please share them!
@@EatdirtNstuff
Vehicles Health States
The Vehicle’s hp represents its conduction and performance. Apply each effect to the vehicle at different damage intervals. The effects last till the vehicle's hp is above its damage interval for that effect.
Ships
-20% Max hp: Disadvantage on crashing rolls and advantage crash rolls against your vehicle, -10ft on speed.
-50% Max hp: The vehicle moves at Half speed and any Hazard Check made by the crew is at disadvantage.
-80% Max hp: The vehicle speed turns to 0 and has disadvantage on any weapon attacks from equipment attached to the vehicle.
-100% Max hp: The vehicle is destroyed and breaks apart.
| There is no possible way to repair the vehicle
Ship Repairs
Nonmagical repairs to a damaged ship can be made while the vessel is berthed. “Repairing (1d8 + Required Tool check total + crew amount helping, to the hit points of damage to a berthed ship takes 1 day and costs 20 gp for materials and labor. Damage to shipboard weapons can be repaired just as quickly (1d8 + Required Tool check total + crew amount helping, hit points per day), but at half the cost (10 gp).
The mending spell is a cheaper, less time-consuming way to make repairs. Casting mending on a damaged ship or shipboard weapon restores a number of hit points to the target equal to 1d8 plus the spellcaster’s spellcasting ability modifier. The target can regain hit points from that spell no more than once per hour.
These are just simple rules i made off of this video.
Late to the party, but instead of "exhaustion" why not call it "structural stress"?
Just get the 7th Sea TTPRG.
Sounds like a good one. How does ship combat work in 7th sea?
@@greenandgarb If you google 7th sea quick start you can download the basic rules of the game to test it out. I have not played the game myself in almost 20 years now but the game is focused on adventures on a ship as a pirate so everything you do almost is about moving around on the ship and do different things.
Thanks!@@dribrom
So a year later ... No document?
Hi we are so sorry about the delay! Here is the finished document: drive.google.com/file/d/1_Yg8BmbHfPon3bfCAueC7UrcE-eouc_D/view?usp=drivesdk