Damage threshold is basically like another DC that you have to pass only with the damage Die and not a d20; you pass it? OK success the ship takes that full damage, you do not pass it? Merely a dent.
Most of the maps are copies of the original ship maps from the AD&D version. Some of the copies include references to a weapon called the jettison, see the Nautiloid and Moth ship aka Elven Man-o-war. The jettison was a catapult like antipersonnel weapon. If they were just copying from the original, they could have included the Greek fire projectors and the modification rules to increase the armor rating or maneuverability.
I wouldn't mind them having included The SpellJammer with a city on it's back and scorpion tail weapon that shot spheres of annihilation. It was a giant mata ray with a scorpion tail and moved insanely fast and had a lot of lore.
They actually explain Damage Threshold in the ships section of Ghosts of Saltmarsh. I feel like Saltmarsh will be pretty handy for filling in gaps for basic ship/naval info and mechanics.
The minis for the ships are cool and all but what's the point of having them? In a game the book just urges you to get close to the other ship so you can board it and engage in melee which doesn't require them.
@@Dannydarko27 The rules do not really allow for chase scenes as the distance you have to get away from other ships to "jump out" is vague and many ships travel at the same speed and their are no mechanics for a skilled pilot to make his ship faster or more maneuverable or anything at all. All of those rules still need to be homebrewed.
My favorite spelljamming vessel is the dwarven citadel. I totally understand why it was not made available for players, though. It's essentially a mountain that dwarves have carved up, often carving out a dwarven face on the front. They typically hold literally hundreds of dwarves and are armed to the teeth.
Those are great. They're powered by the dwarves crafting things. I once had a cleric of Clanngedin build one. It was an interplanetary holy weapons factory.
@@JeffreyJusticeLosey Honestly I was introduced to them by a DM rather than a book, so I'm not 100% sure. But it looks like they were included in the original AD&D Adventures in Space box set in 1989.
I've used Damage Threshold a few times for homebrew creatures just to give them more bite and just to cause confusion sometimes of why a creature took damage from one player but not another. Found it to be a very underutilized mechanic so decided to rectify that in my games by putting it stock on creatures or they use reactions to gain it as an ability till their next turn or if a player manages to break through it.
correct!! Also important to note: its clear that *any* seafaring vessel can serve as a spelljammer, no need to repeat stuff that's in Ghosts of Saltmarsh. Hell, even an Infernal War Machine could technically become a Spelljammer!!!
@@sheildon6 I disagree, as the Astral guide suggests, any ship can be a spell jamming ship; DM's can be creative detailing that and 5.5 seems to be going in the direction of giving DM's more creative leeway. Also, its highly unrealistic to expect WotC to give you all the SJ legacy contents; they didnt do that for Eberron, or any other setting, they want legacy contents to still sell for those who want more ;-)
@@JoeStoryteller I’m not saying you can’t adapt that to be usable, but saying something which was given a name and hourly speed is the same as the ships we have in the actual spelljammer book because you can homebrew the rest is a ridiculous stretch, I’m not saying wizards should provide that, I’m saying it isn’t the same or that they add to the total number of spell jammer ships, by far I would count the ghosts of saltmarch ships and the DiA war machines a lot more to being usable as spelljammers
@@sheildon6 Look, Im just happy to get SJ for 5e; would I have liked more? Yes, but Im happy with what I got. Im also reasoning that WotC had a certain budget for this product line and Id rather they don't blow their wad just on a book. We are getting a full mini's line AND a spelljammer ship mini line. Consider me happy. I get the overall sense from these videos that NI doesn't like them and it makes old-time SJ fans like me feel bad. Ive set realistic standards from WotC with this edition
You got threshold wrong, you don't subtract it, you have to beat threshold in damage and you then do that full damage; also damage threshold is in the DMG, I don't think with this new 3 book format that WotC is interested in repeating word count (books are expensive, plus they are already giving you the ship's weapon stats).
The item section specifically says the ship can only move at the higher speed in space and not in air. Ted pointed out the problem that a planets air is potentially 1000s of miles from surface to "space". Thats a major problem if you can only move a few miles an hour.
Where it says the million miles in 24 hours part it specifically points out space. Stayed earlier within the description it mentions space,air, and water. This means that they are completely different in the eyes of the game designers
@@craigconklin6702, the speed section says the ship is only slowed when it is CLOSE to an object that has a gravity plane and air envelope. It does NOT say that it is the gravity or air envelope that causes it to slow. It is only the proximity to the object itself. It then goes on to say that the DM gets to define “close.” And even if you want a specific number, the max distance on the Starting Encounter Distance table is 1,000 ft. So once a ship is 1,001 ft off the surface of a planet (which is less than 1/5 of a mile), the ship is not slowed anymore and can enter spelljamming speed. The 1 mile rule only pertains to ships in space, which are always going to be far enough away from a planet that it doesn’t matter. The 1 mile rule only matters relative to other ships and things like asteroids.
@@jefR6875 you are only looking at the general rules about SPACE travel. The problem comes up when you look at the specific rules of the spelljamming helm. "You can use the spelljamming helm to move the ship through space, air, or water up to the ship's speed. If the ship is in space and no other objects weighing 1 ton or more are within 1 mile of it, you can use the spelljamming helm to move the vessel fast enough to travel 100 million miles in 24 hours." It SPECIFICALLY says that AIR travel is at normal ship speed and the faster warp speed is ONLY SPACE. If you are in a planets air envelop, possibly 15000 miles wide, then you are using AIR speed. If you want to homebrew a simpler or better way of planet entry or exit, then that is great, but the lazy ill-thought RAW of wotc is a broken mess.
I personally use object hp, material AC, and damage thresholds for when my players decide to tear apart doors instead of opening them, or for determining how long it would take a character to chop down a tree or mine some ore.
I bought a 2e Spelljammer PDF after having my 5e set delivered and found that there were some additional ships that didn't make the cut into 5e, most of all THE ship "Spelljammer", a ship in the shape of a giant manta ray with a city on its back. There were also some human, Dwarven, and Elven ships I would have liked to see in 5e. Not to mention the original artwork for ships had a great lineart aesthetic. Although, I *do* love the new set and the painterly art direction. Update: forgot to mention that the Spelljammer Helms were severely cut down. In 2e there's many ways an astral ship could move, including different types of helms, as well as a Dwarven artiforge that ran on melting down magical artifacts to reclaim and use the power within.
Damage Threshold is a sorely underused mechanic in D&D. As a DM, if you really want players to struggle against something that should logically be tanky as shit, like an Iron Golem, throw a DT on it. Put it on your gargantuan creatures with thick outer shell or carapace, or any kind of sturdy construct. It's a very simple solution to make a fight much more challenging.
I think a great concept to use when it comes to ships is to not only have HP for the ship itself but also to have Hull and or Shield durability. Shields can be acquired through technological means or as a spell, etc. These of course could also be installed/repaired via skills, proficiencies, even certain feats, etc. My 2 cents.
My only disappointment is the lack of normal Cannons. I wanted to add a Spelljammer Helm to the Falling Star Sailing Ship Mini set I have. It has 12 Cannon Ports. I looked thru the Ship Compared the Cargo Space on the Maps with the Ton's it can hold. How is the Bombard able to carry 150 Tons over a Nightspider's 50 Tons or Space Galleon 20 Ton's . Judging by the Maps Both the Nightsspider and Space Galleon has WAY more Cargo Space than the Bombard.
The bombbard has 10 cannon balls which take up the whole 150 ton cargo space and you can see where they are on the cannon deck. The Giff probably had to reinforce their ships because of this, but I haven't seen it explained anywhere yet
If they're essentially siege weapons... Follow me on this... A homebrew campaign combining Eberron and Spelljammer. A Warforged Colossus that's been rebuilt as a "Ship" with the original head/brain as a living ship that's also a gargantuan construct and all the weapons it once had (giant axe hand? how about a battering axe for ramming things?). In order to communicate more effectively with the colossus ship, a warforged is connected to the ship through a spelljammer helm but because of the unusual process he essentially becomes integrated and can't leave the ship's helm but gains 2 new arms. In atmosphere, it looks like any seagoing vessel without sails. You'd need to capture a few elementals to serve various functions. 2 water elementals for propulsion on water, 2 air elementals for a constant supply of fresh air even in space, 2 lightning elementals for lights and power throughout the ship and about 6 fire elementals 2 for generating lift, 2 for generating thrust and 2 as backups should they be damaged or destroyed. A ragtag crew somehow gets away with the ship with help from a mysterious figure who turns out to backstab you and now you're all fugitives. There's bounty hunters after the crew and the ship (which is far more powerful than they were led to believe, they just don't know it.) and y'all still need to make a living... Albeit, while on the run.
So its important to note btw, mad mage actually expands on the spelljammer stuff a bit. 1 gives an example that not all soelljakmers feel the same. 2:some spelljanmers have better gravity(this says on all decks its normal but could just be an old version) 3 you can expend spell slots to move fastet but cant use your spells.(the whole reason they were CALLED spelljammers)
One thing you could do, bc nothing says the ship cant just be a large heavy lump of wood with a chair, is they get the basics kf the spell. But the more ship like or fancy they make the ship, the extras it gets. Instead of pin pricks, u get comfy warm water. Instead of only 35 feet movement, expend ur spell slot and move faster till u unattune
Old school spelljammer was all balista, catapults (yeah, no mangonel in 2e), and similar weapons. Fundamentally, spelljammer was just taking standard waterborne vessels and just giving them the ability to fly. Spelljammer was/is magic in space, not some sci-fi amalgamation.
@@Daredhnu yea, even in the book it stated when entering the phlogiston that all combustables were locked down. not alchistfire, no black powder, hell even the cook stoves were shut down. anything that could produce a spark were seperated. this was one of the main reasons most ships only used catapults ans balista.
I played some Spelljammer back around when it first came out (and have several of the original supplements). I really liked the Hammership, just because of the look and how good it seems overall. For the one campaign I ran of Spelljammer, my players had a Squid Ship, and it served them well.
I loved the dwarven ship, a forge ship that was powered by the act of creation of items. That type of ship would actually mesh I think, with the move to the Astral Plane since it about creative forces making something tangible.
I made an epic statblock for Klauth, and he has a damage threshold against certain kinds of attacks, meaning that powerful siege weapons that can deal 40 points of damage or magic weapons that can deal around 20 points of damage are what you're gonna need to get through my kaiju sized dragon :3
I bought it, I do like the monster book. The adventure is not bad but is a big railroad. The players book is where this falls shot for me. My players want to have ship to ship fighting not boarding.
So, they really haven't changed much from the old days. On damage threshold, we've used it before, but our DM insists that say on the 20 threshold, once you hit the target number or exceed it, you take all the damage. I was under the impression that that first day, 20 DMG, was negated?
@@evilsquirrel0573 thanks, I wanted to make sure it wasn't an interpretation mistake. I believe in earlier editions, the threshold also acted as damage resistance, at least on the D&D Online game which was 3.5, then 4.0
Looking through some of the art from the 2nd edition Spelljammer books I saw a picture of a large swan shaped ship. That sounds like something fun to have options for.
Yeah, it was a halfling ship used by halfings, humans, and half-elves as a trader. If you look up the spelljammer wiki all the 2e ships are listed, and they had a couple of expansions of lore books so there's a lot of material there.
Was object damage or threshold damage hyperlinked in dndbeyond to the appropriate area in the DMG? If it wasn't that seems to be a missed opportunity for a website.
Have you seen the new book + digital bundle price? It's 78€ with shipping to Europe. It's cheaper to just buy the book from a local store and buy the digital separately. Can't say for US.
I wouldn't say object health has played a big role, but my Barbarian/Warlock desecrated a church of helm by cracking the front of the building and cursing the holy symbol after it broke off. We had to figure out how many times I needed to cast shatter to do it
Damage threshold came up during naval combat in my ghosts of saltmarsh campaign but it was the first time i heard of it then amd havent heard of it since
WoTC: Here’s Monsters of the Multiverse! Players: I hate this book; it’s just a repackaging of old content. What a money grab! WoTC: Here’s Spelljammer, a streamlined setting book that builds on existing content. And, we did such a good job of cutting the fat that we were able to include a DM screen and a full adventure as well! Players: I hate this book. There isn’t enough old content reprinted in it. Do they really expect me to read the DMG? Gosh! WoTC: …
I see so many comments saying he misrepresented damage thresholds but can't actually find anywhere that he did. Am I missing it or were people not paying attention?
No offense bro but you got damage threshold badly wrong. You are treating it like DR, which it is not. If you reach the damage threshold it takes ALL the damage, not just the excess
All the spelljammer rules have to be home-brewed. I bought the box because of the art, especialy because I want to play with my kids. But the rest is from super bad to not good.
***** In spell jammer ships no Stats listed for Saving throws/Stats/ or Immunities, looked in dndbeyond also not listed like in Ghosts of Salt Marsh i think is is running up the flag pole or worth a video
Spelljammer for 5e is every bit as disappointing as 5e is to anyone who played earlier editions. The complaint about lack of ship variety is something that older players will point to as a weakness of this edition. I can remember using a modified hammer ship in 2nd, loaded out with a major helm and long range weapons with small crew requirements as a Corsair cutter.
i just want a centipede ship shaped like elder centipede where the legs act like a chainsaws or irene's flash sword from claymore and can shoot death rays out its face shaped prow is that to much to ask
I’m a huge proponent for reading the dmg. I know it’s rough to go through but it damn near answers most questions that people have about playing in or creating a 5e world. that being said, spelljammer is poorly written and i don’t reccomend it
I wanted to see the Smalljammer and honestly it is exactly the kind of space combat they wanted. It can carry up to 25 beings but only needs one to fly it. It is VERY maneuverable and could be as fast as the fastest ship, will not let you attach big weapons to it. (That means you have to board other ships, attack with your abilities/spells/weapons or run away) Also it is a living ship that is a bit like a pet. It gets attached to one person and wants that person to keep flying it. It was a small version of the massive “The Spelljammer” legendary city sized ship. And that is why it was not introduced. Though I had dreamed up a couple other ships I wanted to see - but they would have been (maybe are still) “too woke” as they are based on non-east asian or European designs. There is sooo much more that they could have done if only they let this design space grow.
Not a terrible selection but if they're going to do a new edition they should have gone ahead and included some of the expanded ship roster that 2e had. Astral Elves could have easily been adapted to take the elven armada's role in wildspace/clearly were so why not have the Monarch Armada and the Drow version and a few others. There should at least have been some kind of breakdown of factions and their ship types. Would a page on the different Beholder clans and their infighting have killed them? They seem to have put a lot of effort into avoiding ships, ship combat, and anything to do with the actual setting frankly. The effort to strip out the flow and the phlogiston and the relative lack of decent world-building for the spelljammer culture. Meh.
I don't know why game designers are so bad at figuring out how much cargo a ship can carry. A sea galleon that's 130ft long could typically carry around 500 tons of cargo/arms. The space version only has 20 tons of cargo capacity. Even with the smaller crew of 20 vs 50 on the ocean galleon, 20 tons is only half the size of an 18 wheeler truck's full load. That wouldn't be worth the trip. The space galleon should be able to carry at least 200 tons that would at least be enough to pay for the crew and earn a tidy profit. Honestly though if the ship is carried basically by a magic chair, unless that chair weighs a couple hundred tons, then the space galleon should be able to carry around 500 tons. If the chair has a weight limit then again you get to the point where the amount of cargo isn't with the trip. The 130ft long ocean galleon displaced about 500 tons and could carry another 500 tons. So the spelljammer helm can only carry 520 tons? How do they have even bigger metal ships? And why can't smaller ships carry 2-300 tons if they are half the weight of a galleon?
These books were so incredibly disappointing. There is just such a lack of necessary rules. It might be the most frustrating book that Wizards has published this edition, IMO
This is one of the most thrown-together, bare minimum, lazy books that they have thrown out. If this is the way it's going to be till "One D&D," they just need to stop putting out anything 5e, stop claiming it will be "backwards compatible" with the new stuff (it's not), and just focus on the new stuff.
There were literally hundreds of Spelljammer's back in 2E, with a full, multipage guide to BUILD your own Spelljammer! And Antimatter cannons and "photon torpedoes"? Spelljammer isnt Star Trek, Star Wars, or any of that! ...Its "closer" to John Carter of Mars or Flash Gordon... Firstly, the space inside a Crystal Sphere is the Wildspace, and its composed of "Thin Air"... and Distances aren't "Massive", see my earlier comment on JCM. The space BEYOND a Crystal Sphere is called "The Phlogiston", and it comes from an old theory about what space is...infact, part of that hold-over still exists..."Milky Way" anyone? Basically, beyond the bubble that Stars and their Planets live inside, is a vast ocean of colours that you can sail on...and it was called the Phlogiston...its meaning has something to do with Fire, which is why it was VERY BAD to use Fire damage effects in the Phlogiston...Fire is amplified by a factor of 4-10 (depending on the area of the Phlogiston). But of the old ships, my favourite was the Ha'tak class Mothership...errr, I mean, the Pyramid Ship of P'tah... It used a "Life Helm", which was a Sarcophagus that you put a living person into, and it used the victim's "Life Force (HP)" as the means by which to power/pilot the ship...it was also crewed by Undead, usually lead by a Mummy Lord... ...Y'know, I think Stargate, SG-1, and Atlantis was just Spelljammer, come to think of it! LOL
While there was a ton of ships I’d have liked to see also included they got all the iconic standard sized ships. The one that is significant though while only in an adventure book was the ships of the ancient Thri Kreen Empire, as they added Thri Kreen as a playable race which I’m extremely happy with I’d have liked them to have included the Thri Kreen Leaf Ships and their Thorn Ship Fightercraft. For those interested the 2e book Skulls and Crossbows, still available in pdf, has multiple great little adventures that includes a cool Thri Kreen based arc and the Thri Kreen ships. While light on ship combat rules there’s enough to be playable. I’m hoping sales do well enough to get enough executive attention for an additional supplement with more ships and optional rules.
This is the useless direction that wotc has been headed with dnd for a while. They give you a minimum of ideas and say make it your own. But dont give the simplest rules you need or any way to custimize it. Wotc wants little work for themselves but no way for 3rd party or personal additions that would take money from them.
What rules are we needing exactly? People expect dnd 5e too add way too much nuance/detail to a system that has explicitly thrived due to how hands off it is. The ships have stats, movement, defenses, etc. I'm not sure what we're really needing here.
Everybody wanted Spelljammer. Well, here ya go. Enjoy. I don’t know if PC Wizards would have done Dark Sun but it would have been much more interesting. Not meaning to be a jerk. I hope people get what they wanted out of it but it appears to be lackluster.
@@HSuper_Lee so what you’re saying is you don’t want anyone to play it. You could choose to not buy it for yourself rather than stop others from playing a GAME they are interested in. Funny how control is rarely obvious. You have to cover it in the guise of “protecting others”.
When you beat a damage threshold, you do not reduce the damage by the threshold
Was about to comment the same thing. If the damage threshold is 20 and the ship takes 40 damage, the ship still takes the full 40 damage.
@@sethazillax2553 yep exactly
Boosting this instead of adding my own comment!
Damage threshold is basically like another DC that you have to pass only with the damage Die and not a d20; you pass it? OK success the ship takes that full damage, you do not pass it? Merely a dent.
Holy shit i was interpreting the rules wrong this whole time and it made my ships much tankier in my games
Most of the maps are copies of the original ship maps from the AD&D version. Some of the copies include references to a weapon called the jettison, see the Nautiloid and Moth ship aka Elven Man-o-war. The jettison was a catapult like antipersonnel weapon. If they were just copying from the original, they could have included the Greek fire projectors and the modification rules to increase the armor rating or maneuverability.
Hope there's a DMs guild supplement to that effect at some point, would love a big list of armour, movement and weapon upgrades with prices etc.
@@liammccabe05 working on it now
I wouldn't mind them having included The SpellJammer with a city on it's back and scorpion tail weapon that shot spheres of annihilation. It was a giant mata ray with a scorpion tail and moved insanely fast and had a lot of lore.
Are you reffering to THE Spelljammer, like the ship that the name comes from?
@@boombangblam93 yes
They actually explain Damage Threshold in the ships section of Ghosts of Saltmarsh. I feel like Saltmarsh will be pretty handy for filling in gaps for basic ship/naval info and mechanics.
The minis for the ships are cool and all but what's the point of having them? In a game the book just urges you to get close to the other ship so you can board it and engage in melee which doesn't require them.
Chase scenes i would assume
Only useful (in traditional combat) if you have other sections on the table with grids for each ship ig
Just measure them and cut them out of card board.
Damage taken while closing impacts the gravity plane dominance, so it will matter, a lot.
@@Dannydarko27 The rules do not really allow for chase scenes as the distance you have to get away from other ships to "jump out" is vague and many ships travel at the same speed and their are no mechanics for a skilled pilot to make his ship faster or more maneuverable or anything at all. All of those rules still need to be homebrewed.
At last a use for the true strike cantrp. You can cast it while your crewmates are reloading the artillery.
True Strike can only be used on targets within 30ft... Pretty useless for artillery.
I've been down this road, True Strike is just a bad spell.
@@jonp8015 thanks Jon. Peering in windows it is then. Hate that cantrip.
My favorite spelljamming vessel is the dwarven citadel. I totally understand why it was not made available for players, though. It's essentially a mountain that dwarves have carved up, often carving out a dwarven face on the front. They typically hold literally hundreds of dwarves and are armed to the teeth.
Those are great. They're powered by the dwarves crafting things. I once had a cleric of Clanngedin build one. It was an interplanetary holy weapons factory.
What book was that from?
@@JeffreyJusticeLosey Honestly I was introduced to them by a DM rather than a book, so I'm not 100% sure. But it looks like they were included in the original AD&D Adventures in Space box set in 1989.
"I am a dwarf and I'm flying a hole," LMAO!🏔⚒
I've used Damage Threshold a few times for homebrew creatures just to give them more bite and just to cause confusion sometimes of why a creature took damage from one player but not another. Found it to be a very underutilized mechanic so decided to rectify that in my games by putting it stock on creatures or they use reactions to gain it as an ability till their next turn or if a player manages to break through it.
With the ones found in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes for the astral brig, astral skiff, and planar raider we have 19 spelljammer ships.
correct!! Also important to note: its clear that *any* seafaring vessel can serve as a spelljammer, no need to repeat stuff that's in Ghosts of Saltmarsh. Hell, even an Infernal War Machine could technically become a Spelljammer!!!
It’s a bit of a push to include the ones included in mordenkainen’s tome of foes. They’re very lacking in detail
@@sheildon6 I disagree, as the Astral guide suggests, any ship can be a spell jamming ship; DM's can be creative detailing that and 5.5 seems to be going in the direction of giving DM's more creative leeway. Also, its highly unrealistic to expect WotC to give you all the SJ legacy contents; they didnt do that for Eberron, or any other setting, they want legacy contents to still sell for those who want more ;-)
@@JoeStoryteller I’m not saying you can’t adapt that to be usable, but saying something which was given a name and hourly speed is the same as the ships we have in the actual spelljammer book because you can homebrew the rest is a ridiculous stretch, I’m not saying wizards should provide that, I’m saying it isn’t the same or that they add to the total number of spell jammer ships, by far I would count the ghosts of saltmarch ships and the DiA war machines a lot more to being usable as spelljammers
@@sheildon6 Look, Im just happy to get SJ for 5e; would I have liked more? Yes, but Im happy with what I got. Im also reasoning that WotC had a certain budget for this product line and Id rather they don't blow their wad just on a book. We are getting a full mini's line AND a spelljammer ship mini line. Consider me happy. I get the overall sense from these videos that NI doesn't like them and it makes old-time SJ fans like me feel bad. Ive set realistic standards from WotC with this edition
You got threshold wrong, you don't subtract it, you have to beat threshold in damage and you then do that full damage; also damage threshold is in the DMG, I don't think with this new 3 book format that WotC is interested in repeating word count (books are expensive, plus they are already giving you the ship's weapon stats).
The item section specifically says the ship can only move at the higher speed in space and not in air. Ted pointed out the problem that a planets air is potentially 1000s of miles from surface to "space". Thats a major problem if you can only move a few miles an hour.
Where it says the million miles in 24 hours part it specifically points out space. Stayed earlier within the description it mentions space,air, and water. This means that they are completely different in the eyes of the game designers
@@craigconklin6702 that's an interpretation, the magic item seems to clarify this
@@craigconklin6702, the speed section says the ship is only slowed when it is CLOSE to an object that has a gravity plane and air envelope.
It does NOT say that it is the gravity or air envelope that causes it to slow. It is only the proximity to the object itself.
It then goes on to say that the DM gets to define “close.”
And even if you want a specific number, the max distance on the Starting Encounter Distance table is 1,000 ft. So once a ship is 1,001 ft off the surface of a planet (which is less than 1/5 of a mile), the ship is not slowed anymore and can enter spelljamming speed.
The 1 mile rule only pertains to ships in space, which are always going to be far enough away from a planet that it doesn’t matter. The 1 mile rule only matters relative to other ships and things like asteroids.
@@jefR6875 you are only looking at the general rules about SPACE travel. The problem comes up when you look at the specific rules of the spelljamming helm. "You can use the spelljamming helm to move the ship through space, air, or water up to the ship's speed. If the ship is in space and no other objects weighing 1 ton or more are within 1 mile of it, you can use the spelljamming helm to move the vessel fast enough to travel 100 million miles in 24 hours." It SPECIFICALLY says that AIR travel is at normal ship speed and the faster warp speed is ONLY SPACE. If you are in a planets air envelop, possibly 15000 miles wide, then you are using AIR speed.
If you want to homebrew a simpler or better way of planet entry or exit, then that is great, but the lazy ill-thought RAW of wotc is a broken mess.
I personally use object hp, material AC, and damage thresholds for when my players decide to tear apart doors instead of opening them, or for determining how long it would take a character to chop down a tree or mine some ore.
Or cut a rope. Or break chain. Or break open a chest instead of dealing with a lock & trap.
I bought a 2e Spelljammer PDF after having my 5e set delivered and found that there were some additional ships that didn't make the cut into 5e, most of all THE ship "Spelljammer", a ship in the shape of a giant manta ray with a city on its back.
There were also some human, Dwarven, and Elven ships I would have liked to see in 5e. Not to mention the original artwork for ships had a great lineart aesthetic.
Although, I *do* love the new set and the painterly art direction.
Update: forgot to mention that the Spelljammer Helms were severely cut down. In 2e there's many ways an astral ship could move, including different types of helms, as well as a Dwarven artiforge that ran on melting down magical artifacts to reclaim and use the power within.
I had a player who was very fond of Shatter, so yes..... unfortunately I do have a great deal of experience with that table...
"most people don't deal with object hp too often".
I have an orc fighter that likes to smash walls instead of using doors....
Damage Threshold is a sorely underused mechanic in D&D. As a DM, if you really want players to struggle against something that should logically be tanky as shit, like an Iron Golem, throw a DT on it. Put it on your gargantuan creatures with thick outer shell or carapace, or any kind of sturdy construct. It's a very simple solution to make a fight much more challenging.
I think a great concept to use when it comes to ships is to not only have HP for the ship itself but also to have Hull and or Shield durability. Shields can be acquired through technological means or as a spell, etc. These of course could also be installed/repaired via skills, proficiencies, even certain feats, etc. My 2 cents.
My only disappointment is the lack of normal Cannons. I wanted to add a Spelljammer Helm to the Falling Star Sailing Ship Mini set I have. It has 12 Cannon Ports. I looked thru the Ship Compared the Cargo Space on the Maps with the Ton's it can hold. How is the Bombard able to carry 150 Tons over a Nightspider's 50 Tons or Space Galleon 20 Ton's . Judging by the Maps Both the Nightsspider and Space Galleon has WAY more Cargo Space than the Bombard.
The bombbard has 10 cannon balls which take up the whole 150 ton cargo space and you can see where they are on the cannon deck. The Giff probably had to reinforce their ships because of this, but I haven't seen it explained anywhere yet
Normal cannons are in the Dungeon Master's Guide
@@simum1 Thanks so much been looking for them for about a year now lol.
@@KidK32 right by the ballista under Siege Equipment
If they're essentially siege weapons... Follow me on this...
A homebrew campaign combining Eberron and Spelljammer.
A Warforged Colossus that's been rebuilt as a "Ship" with the original head/brain as a living ship that's also a gargantuan construct and all the weapons it once had (giant axe hand? how about a battering axe for ramming things?). In order to communicate more effectively with the colossus ship, a warforged is connected to the ship through a spelljammer helm but because of the unusual process he essentially becomes integrated and can't leave the ship's helm but gains 2 new arms. In atmosphere, it looks like any seagoing vessel without sails. You'd need to capture a few elementals to serve various functions. 2 water elementals for propulsion on water, 2 air elementals for a constant supply of fresh air even in space, 2 lightning elementals for lights and power throughout the ship and about 6 fire elementals 2 for generating lift, 2 for generating thrust and 2 as backups should they be damaged or destroyed. A ragtag crew somehow gets away with the ship with help from a mysterious figure who turns out to backstab you and now you're all fugitives. There's bounty hunters after the crew and the ship (which is far more powerful than they were led to believe, they just don't know it.) and y'all still need to make a living... Albeit, while on the run.
So its important to note btw, mad mage actually expands on the spelljammer stuff a bit. 1 gives an example that not all soelljakmers feel the same. 2:some spelljanmers have better gravity(this says on all decks its normal but could just be an old version) 3 you can expend spell slots to move fastet but cant use your spells.(the whole reason they were CALLED spelljammers)
What this tells me(bc scavenger is fancy) is not all helps are created equallybut id like to see that expanded ob
One thing you could do, bc nothing says the ship cant just be a large heavy lump of wood with a chair, is they get the basics kf the spell. But the more ship like or fancy they make the ship, the extras it gets. Instead of pin pricks, u get comfy warm water. Instead of only 35 feet movement, expend ur spell slot and move faster till u unattune
Old school spelljammer was all balista, catapults (yeah, no mangonel in 2e), and similar weapons. Fundamentally, spelljammer was just taking standard waterborne vessels and just giving them the ability to fly. Spelljammer was/is magic in space, not some sci-fi amalgamation.
mangonel is a catapult also 2e spelljammers had bombards (cannons) and greekfire (alchemistfire) projectors aka flamethrowers
@@Daredhnu yea, even in the book it stated when entering the phlogiston that all combustables were locked down. not alchistfire, no black powder, hell even the cook stoves were shut down. anything that could produce a spark were seperated. this was one of the main reasons most ships only used catapults ans balista.
I played some Spelljammer back around when it first came out (and have several of the original supplements). I really liked the Hammership, just because of the look and how good it seems overall. For the one campaign I ran of Spelljammer, my players had a Squid Ship, and it served them well.
I loved the dwarven ship, a forge ship that was powered by the act of creation of items. That type of ship would actually mesh I think, with the move to the Astral Plane since it about creative forces making something tangible.
I made an epic statblock for Klauth, and he has a damage threshold against certain kinds of attacks, meaning that powerful siege weapons that can deal 40 points of damage or magic weapons that can deal around 20 points of damage are what you're gonna need to get through my kaiju sized dragon :3
I bought it, I do like the monster book. The adventure is not bad but is a big railroad. The players book is where this falls shot for me. My players want to have ship to ship fighting not boarding.
My favorite ship from the early Spelljammer books, is the BAT SHIP. Did they remove it from the newer versions?
So, they really haven't changed much from the old days.
On damage threshold, we've used it before, but our DM insists that say on the 20 threshold, once you hit the target number or exceed it, you take all the damage. I was under the impression that that first day, 20 DMG, was negated?
No they’re right, once the threshold is bypassed all damage is taken, it’s just a threshold and not a reduction
@@evilsquirrel0573 thanks, I wanted to make sure it wasn't an interpretation mistake. I believe in earlier editions, the threshold also acted as damage resistance, at least on the D&D Online game which was 3.5, then 4.0
@@Edi62768 both interpretations make sense in their own way, I totally understand why it’d be mistaken
Looking through some of the art from the 2nd edition Spelljammer books I saw a picture of a large swan shaped ship. That sounds like something fun to have options for.
Yeah, it was a halfling ship used by halfings, humans, and half-elves as a trader. If you look up the spelljammer wiki all the 2e ships are listed, and they had a couple of expansions of lore books so there's a lot of material there.
Was object damage or threshold damage hyperlinked in dndbeyond to the appropriate area in the DMG? If it wasn't that seems to be a missed opportunity for a website.
Have you seen the new book + digital bundle price? It's 78€ with shipping to Europe. It's cheaper to just buy the book from a local store and buy the digital separately. Can't say for US.
Thanks for the damage threshold reminder.
I wouldn't say object health has played a big role, but my Barbarian/Warlock desecrated a church of helm by cracking the front of the building and cursing the holy symbol after it broke off. We had to figure out how many times I needed to cast shatter to do it
There is an Arcane Cannon in Matt Mercers first book Wildmount but I dont think the range is great on it
Damage threshold came up during naval combat in my ghosts of saltmarsh campaign but it was the first time i heard of it then amd havent heard of it since
Came up a bit in Baldur’s Gate: Descent into Avernus with the Infernal Warmachines. Very Mad Max feel to those battles.
@@GodwinXZ didnt play descent into avernus but i can imagine
WoTC: Here’s Monsters of the Multiverse!
Players: I hate this book; it’s just a repackaging of old content. What a money grab!
WoTC: Here’s Spelljammer, a streamlined setting book that builds on existing content. And, we did such a good job of cutting the fat that we were able to include a DM screen and a full adventure as well!
Players: I hate this book. There isn’t enough old content reprinted in it. Do they really expect me to read the DMG? Gosh!
WoTC: …
I see so many comments saying he misrepresented damage thresholds but can't actually find anywhere that he did. Am I missing it or were people not paying attention?
Bring back the battle dolphin! I always thought it was so exotic and cool.
No offense bro but you got damage threshold badly wrong. You are treating it like DR, which it is not. If you reach the damage threshold it takes ALL the damage, not just the excess
All the spelljammer rules have to be home-brewed. I bought the box because of the art, especialy because I want to play with my kids. But the rest is from super bad to not good.
Aw nice. Cant wait till there is a fizbands monster video.
I miss my Whaleship, but I’ll probably just homebrew it myself, might do that for a bunch and toss a pdf up on the DMs guild
Living ship have a treant which can throw rocks.
damage threshold feels like an obvious definition to me at this point
It would have been nice if they stated them out similarly to the vehicles from Ghosts of saltmarsh/decent into avernus
***** In spell jammer ships no Stats listed for Saving throws/Stats/ or Immunities, looked in dndbeyond also not listed like in Ghosts of Salt Marsh i think is is running up the flag pole or worth a video
I proposed casting Catapult on alchemist fire then realized that it was a dex saving throw and none listed.
If a ship has a threshold of 15, a warlock's eldritch blast will do almost nothing even at high levels even with hex.
Spelljammer for 5e is every bit as disappointing as 5e is to anyone who played earlier editions.
The complaint about lack of ship variety is something that older players will point to as a weakness of this edition. I can remember using a modified hammer ship in 2nd, loaded out with a major helm and long range weapons with small crew requirements as a Corsair cutter.
i just want a centipede ship shaped like elder centipede where the legs act like a chainsaws or irene's flash sword from claymore and can shoot death rays out its face shaped prow is that to much to ask
my 5e campaign has already had a spelljammer in it
I wanna have a clown ship whoes weapons deal acid or psychic damage
I’m a huge proponent for reading the dmg. I know it’s rough to go through but it damn near answers most questions that people have about playing in or creating a 5e world. that being said, spelljammer is poorly written and i don’t reccomend it
I wanted to see the Smalljammer and honestly it is exactly the kind of space combat they wanted. It can carry up to 25 beings but only needs one to fly it. It is VERY maneuverable and could be as fast as the fastest ship, will not let you attach big weapons to it. (That means you have to board other ships, attack with your abilities/spells/weapons or run away) Also it is a living ship that is a bit like a pet. It gets attached to one person and wants that person to keep flying it.
It was a small version of the massive “The Spelljammer” legendary city sized ship. And that is why it was not introduced. Though I had dreamed up a couple other ships I wanted to see - but they would have been (maybe are still) “too woke” as they are based on non-east asian or European designs. There is sooo much more that they could have done if only they let this design space grow.
Not a terrible selection but if they're going to do a new edition they should have gone ahead and included some of the expanded ship roster that 2e had. Astral Elves could have easily been adapted to take the elven armada's role in wildspace/clearly were so why not have the Monarch Armada and the Drow version and a few others. There should at least have been some kind of breakdown of factions and their ship types. Would a page on the different Beholder clans and their infighting have killed them? They seem to have put a lot of effort into avoiding ships, ship combat, and anything to do with the actual setting frankly. The effort to strip out the flow and the phlogiston and the relative lack of decent world-building for the spelljammer culture. Meh.
10 beholders together?? How does that work? Aren't they immensely egocentric? Are they constantly fighting on the ship?
I don't know why game designers are so bad at figuring out how much cargo a ship can carry. A sea galleon that's 130ft long could typically carry around 500 tons of cargo/arms. The space version only has 20 tons of cargo capacity. Even with the smaller crew of 20 vs 50 on the ocean galleon, 20 tons is only half the size of an 18 wheeler truck's full load. That wouldn't be worth the trip. The space galleon should be able to carry at least 200 tons that would at least be enough to pay for the crew and earn a tidy profit. Honestly though if the ship is carried basically by a magic chair, unless that chair weighs a couple hundred tons, then the space galleon should be able to carry around 500 tons. If the chair has a weight limit then again you get to the point where the amount of cargo isn't with the trip. The 130ft long ocean galleon displaced about 500 tons and could carry another 500 tons. So the spelljammer helm can only carry 520 tons? How do they have even bigger metal ships? And why can't smaller ships carry 2-300 tons if they are half the weight of a galleon?
These books were so incredibly disappointing. There is just such a lack of necessary rules. It might be the most frustrating book that Wizards has published this edition, IMO
yeah they left out a lot of ship. I'm looking at it right now.
How about bat ship
This is one of the most thrown-together, bare minimum, lazy books that they have thrown out.
If this is the way it's going to be till "One D&D," they just need to stop putting out anything 5e, stop claiming it will be "backwards compatible" with the new stuff (it's not), and just focus on the new stuff.
The fact that we'll get a good amount of Spelljammer miniatures for all ships and the rules being bare bones feels especially disappointing.
There were literally hundreds of Spelljammer's back in 2E, with a full, multipage guide to BUILD your own Spelljammer!
And Antimatter cannons and "photon torpedoes"? Spelljammer isnt Star Trek, Star Wars, or any of that!
...Its "closer" to John Carter of Mars or Flash Gordon...
Firstly, the space inside a Crystal Sphere is the Wildspace, and its composed of "Thin Air"... and Distances aren't "Massive", see my earlier comment on JCM. The space BEYOND a Crystal Sphere is called "The Phlogiston", and it comes from an old theory about what space is...infact, part of that hold-over still exists..."Milky Way" anyone? Basically, beyond the bubble that Stars and their Planets live inside, is a vast ocean of colours that you can sail on...and it was called the Phlogiston...its meaning has something to do with Fire, which is why it was VERY BAD to use Fire damage effects in the Phlogiston...Fire is amplified by a factor of 4-10 (depending on the area of the Phlogiston).
But of the old ships, my favourite was the Ha'tak class Mothership...errr, I mean, the Pyramid Ship of P'tah...
It used a "Life Helm", which was a Sarcophagus that you put a living person into, and it used the victim's "Life Force (HP)" as the means by which to power/pilot the ship...it was also crewed by Undead, usually lead by a Mummy Lord...
...Y'know, I think Stargate, SG-1, and Atlantis was just Spelljammer, come to think of it! LOL
While there was a ton of ships I’d have liked to see also included they got all the iconic standard sized ships.
The one that is significant though while only in an adventure book was the ships of the ancient Thri Kreen Empire, as they added Thri Kreen as a playable race which I’m extremely happy with I’d have liked them to have included the Thri Kreen Leaf Ships and their Thorn Ship Fightercraft.
For those interested the 2e book Skulls and Crossbows, still available in pdf, has multiple great little adventures that includes a cool Thri Kreen based arc and the Thri Kreen ships.
While light on ship combat rules there’s enough to be playable. I’m hoping sales do well enough to get enough executive attention for an additional supplement with more ships and optional rules.
👍🏻
This is the useless direction that wotc has been headed with dnd for a while. They give you a minimum of ideas and say make it your own. But dont give the simplest rules you need or any way to custimize it. Wotc wants little work for themselves but no way for 3rd party or personal additions that would take money from them.
What rules are we needing exactly? People expect dnd 5e too add way too much nuance/detail to a system that has explicitly thrived due to how hands off it is. The ships have stats, movement, defenses, etc. I'm not sure what we're really needing here.
My first thoughts on spelljamers why include this in d&d. After watching you brake it down. I’m left with my first question. Why?
As an old school fan of spelljamer I did not want sci-fi weapons if you want sci-fi with magic go for star finder
There was a lot of gnomepunk in the setting. Not so much pure sci-fi, I agree.
Everybody wanted Spelljammer. Well, here ya go. Enjoy. I don’t know if PC Wizards would have done Dark Sun but it would have been much more interesting. Not meaning to be a jerk. I hope people get what they wanted out of it but it appears to be lackluster.
Yeah, we did want it. And this isn't it. Conan with psykers and bugs wouldn't have fared any better if this is the quality they're going to put out.
It really is lackluster... But, oh well... I agree, btw, about Dark Sun
I do not want modern WotC to touch Dark Sun.
Just wait, we get to see them screw up Dragonlance next.
@@HSuper_Lee so what you’re saying is you don’t want anyone to play it. You could choose to not buy it for yourself rather than stop others from playing a GAME they are interested in. Funny how control is rarely obvious. You have to cover it in the guise of “protecting others”.
I thought they would have used the ships better. Well my wallet thanks me.
Hey Ted could you do a video on the dmsguild spelljammer offerings.
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