StarCraft 2 - Maru vs. Life (TvZ) - IEM 2015 Taipei - Grand Final
Вставка
- Опубліковано 31 січ 2015
- It is being called the dream grand finals, and it truly is! Maru faces Life in this Terran versus Zerg best of seven Grand Final series! Find out who becomes IEM 2015 Taipei StarCraft 2 Champion!
Watch more IEM StarCraft 2 action here: ua-cam.com/users/esltvpl...
Subscribe ESL and watch more eSports: ua-cam.com/users/subscription_c...
Intel Extreme Masters Season 9
Jan 28th - Feb 1st 2015 Taipei
www.intelextrememasters.com/
Music: Alexis Troy Silent Runner (Intel Extreme Masters Theme)
Buy the official Intel Extreme Masters Theme Song
on iTunes: esl.gg/iem-itunes
on Amazon: esl.gg/iem-amazon
/ esl
/ esl - Ігри
Unlike a lot of other video games where pros make the games look easy, I feel like when I watch Starcraft it's very clear that what these guys are doing is extremely hard
Life has been a beast, this past forever.
Was hoping life would win cuz I thought maru was gonna win but after seeing how it ended it was really quite disappointing.
***** Probably because 1 sporecrawler in the mineral line already disrupts mining a lot.
i have never played starcraft 2 in my life, i've no idea what's going on.
+Jelle Donders how does that feel?
User User ignorant
+Jelle Donders Same
Aikous Ayoub it was still fun to watch though.
Jelle Donders I totally agree! Its probably because of the sick well professional game-play, its intense to watch lol
Man Life vs Maru should still be happening to this day :(
Now Maru is the best Terran player in the world and Life still struggling to get back into pro-gaming, what a waste.
@@tigera6 didnt that scandal pretty much put a dagger into the sc scene?
Kaninstek Not in SC, but it was placed into Life’s.
@@MaisieDaisyUpsadaisy thats why there are zero tournaments around and streamviewers peak at 10k?
Kaninstek There are lots of tournaments and they don’t peak at that.
Anyone watching in 2019? I miss the Life days. Some incredible games.
Lol yes. I miss him too. Rumor that he was back on ladder but people will leaf the game if they recognize him. Pain is just to big sadly...
@Mike K Crime and punishment though. Has he no penanced enough?
Life was best man :)
Life is love, Love Life.
@@dukeettingbrah5117 life was payed to throw games on purpose and he got caught.
To marry a Korean girl, you have to beat her father at Starcraft 2.
To be good at starcraft 2, you need to beat Life.
LOL
NO!! These guys!!
It's fun until you realize it's not a joke.
@@ReaperOFblackghosts makes it even more fun
I just started playing starcraft and I have to say this is awesome
welp the pro leuge is pretty much dead with a bunch of teams disbanding and discontinuin the pro leuge
It's been two years, are you a pro now?
it's been 5 years, are you still playing?
My boy Life, 7 years passed, still a joy to watch
Yeah, when he's not playing fixed matches.
Life, I miss you so much , you were the chosen one
It's hard to say when a single player is the best in the world, but he really was. I got the opportunity to see him smash through every player at BlizzCon at the 2014 WCS Global Finals. His championship flag is no longer among the others in more recent years, that's a disgrace for Blizzard to do that.
@@visualblind he shouldnt have done that then
Was he the guy that gave up games for money?
@@theuntamed3214 Yep
He was banned for life 😅
You know? This is the first time I've watch a match (more like a war) between two professionals in starcraft and I, can not described how hyped I was when watching this.
Truly amazing, I must said. Truly a-ma-zing.
1- 0:37
2- 15:37
3- 34:37
4- 50:44
5- 1:08:55
6- 1:23:00
7- 1:47:11
You're welcome.
1. Life wins
2. Maru wins
3. Maru wins
4. Maru wins
5. Life wins
6. Life wins
7. Life wins
I still go back to this match....miss life so much
but can they beat campaign on the hardest difficulty?
yep
no time for campaign :).. ranked matches day and night for points ^^
Ballisti have you seen polt play wol on brutal with all of the achiviements and he isint really that good in pro league
Polt?! isnt so good?! 2016-2017 he dominated the whole scene
@@vladvasile2170 in pro league?
Never knew SC could be so fun and fast paced! The players are unreal and even the commentators are informative and intelligent. Really awesome video and series.
If Jeff Goldblum taught me anything, it's that Life finds a way
How a match usually goes for me:
-I start gathering minerals and gas
-after 5-6 minutes I begin to build my first barracks
-Then I get attacked by 300+ enemy troops
-I lose
-I cry.
I don't know if they enjoy this game anymore. It's like everything is so mechanized that they no longer play, they just react. I also take my time when playing Starcraft, and after 5 minutes I get owned by a massive army unless I put up some serious defense. This game is not meant for casual players. Play the campaign and move on. The MP on Starcraft is only for people who's job is to play Starcraft day and night without doing anything else.
Charly Robledo git gud
Charly Robledo I am old. 30 plus. I work 2nd shift. I have a high school age son. I work 40 plus hours a week. I usually fit in a couple of hours when I get off work to wind down before bed. I am a fairly competitive high plat. Which is still terrible but, I consistently win more than I lose as I gun for diamond. I will never be life. But I will be gm some day. Focusing on the correct things with the limited time I have to play allows me to improve whether I win or lose. Sc2 is NOT just for the pro gamer.
Dj Lost keep it up. that’s why we have leagues, lol. I’m plat 3 and I’m happy I’m not matched up with grandmasters, the game wouldn’t be fun at all.
@@djlost1320 you grandmaster yet my man?
Video is still processing, HD will be available shortly!
*SPOILERS* MATCH TIMES BELOW *SPOILERS*
0:08 15:26 34:09 50:43 1:08:30 1:22:44 1:46:44
Ya stole da show ;)
it was pretty obvious maru was going to lose at least 1 more game when he was 3 : 1 due to the time on the video. Can you ask youtube if you can post vods WITHOUT the length of the video shown? thanks
anon ymous just dont move your mouse so you are not gonna be able to see the timing
anon ymous LOL
anon ymous
some casters used to add random 10-30min blank time to some videos
others upload every game, name them Game 1, 2, 3, ... , 7, but then 6 and 7 are just placeholders
Now I can see why Starcraft pros claim that Starcraft is more difficult than Warcraft 3. I've seen pro matches of both games and you can tell how big the diference is. Warcraft 3 is not an easy game but this thing here is as intense as it gets. The level ov micro managment that both of these guys display (especially Maru) is unbeliavable. Even though Warcraft 3 seems to be more micro-oriented it really does not require the same level of speed and reaction that this thing here does. Anyway, I cannot play Starcraft but simply watching this is really entertaining and beautiful.
Not true. Heroes swapping items midfight to reset cooldowns and abilities ... it's more micro than macro. Starcraft is more macro than micro.
Yeah he did say that WC3 is more micro-oriented. Also, he said that SC2 is more intense and that it is the level of micro management that SC2 pro players exhibit, that is unbelievable. HE DIDN't SAY ANYTHING OPPOSITE TO WHAT YOU SAID. So that "Not True." you got there? Not accurate...
i have watched this video so many times and it still astonishes me the amount of skill that both of these players posses
How to be a pro at star craft.
1. Close your 1 entrance to your base off.
2. Start building basic units.
3. continue building basic units.
4. Run them at each other and whoever loses their army loses the game your base doesn't matter.
+Blaze The Hedgehog right
+Blaze The Hedgehog you can do this maybe in bronze league if your macro is ok, otherwise doesn't work at all. Just shows how little you understand about the game.
***** even though i own the game. And watch people olay this game and i use to watch people olay starcraft 1. No strats just get lots of units and throw them at each other.
+Blaze The Hedgehog As somebody who plays SC2 and Brood War (Fish B+, KR top Masters) you are very wrong and that is only true in dirt league. Although I will say that BW has gotten to such a ridiculous level it comes down to who can execute a predetermined build fastest (i.e. bunker to defend dragoon scout TvP into tank vulture)
+Blaze The Hedgehog do you have any idea how high these players micro, macro and APM level skills are? Its far more complicated than you think. TvZ is a lot of basic units, but the skills behind it for MLG level players is insane.
south korea's national sport
Learn Quick AYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY LMAOOOOOO
Life was the GOAT of sc2 imo, most talanted player to ever play the game. Shame what happened but o well, nothing you can do about it. Think he would have become unstoppable with one or two more years of pratice
this was a great action packed Grand Final. Congrats to all competetors who tried their best in the finals
I don't play SC2 myself, but i played the original starcraft back in the day.
It really seems like LIFE is the dominant player here, but that the Terran army is kind of OP.
Those medivacs and widow mines almost seems too powerfull.
Is this the case?
They aren't too powerful, just punishes mismicro and poor positioning very hard
Well, it looks that way at times but against good players like life who micro pretty well, they often don't get those super op hits... they could fail 10 times but hit 1 big jackpot. Sometimes it would knock the other player entirely off balance.
Well I don't play this game anymore, I just watch so I don't really know if it is balanced or not, but the factor I mentioned in the first paragraph makes it looks more strong than it actually is( a lot of times it doesn't really get good hits, but as humans we focus on the exciting hits). And the rate the widow mines gets good hits depends on both players, see how life always send small packs of ling forces in front of the pack? lesser terrans would never be able to land a good widow mine hit against life. Good terrans either unborrow the mines when they think the hits are not worth it, or clicks on the widow mines and chooses the target right at the time high value targets get into range. A lot of stuff is going on on both sides like spliting banelings and lings, controlling mutas to snipe widow mines...terrans also need to split the marines and abuse terrain, move slow ass thors around, pickup. engage/disengage depending on how the fight is going(and the terrain surrounding it) and as you can see they are often doing this on multiple fronts....so it all comes down to the skill on both sides.
And by the way, there are so many good players out there nowadays that there is not often "dominant" players like flash or jaedong before. Players take a lot of time studying the thought process and habits of other players so upsets happen a lot. They are so good sometimes it is entirely impossible to tell which player is gonna win, as you could see in this series, a lot of times the observers aren't even able to keep up with all the action and they find ways to turn games that people felt they were bound to lose around, it goes back and forth multiple times in one game it is mind blowing.
To be honest I think Maru and Life played really really well this series and both of them would deserve to win. The micro of Maru is really insane to make those units seem entirely op(he is a player known for his insane micro). If it was another player, no way 3 reapers could get that kind of damage almost every game and those widow mines wouldn't be as good( he probably clicks on them and manually controls them to focus on banelings and splits his marines perfectly at the same time). It's just that sometimes the micro is not easily seen by us. If you want to know what will happen to lesser terran players just watch the player "soo" play against any other terran before the gsl finals(lol, let me just put it this way, "soo" is the "Yellow" of starcraft 2 haha! he went to 4 gsl grand finals in a row and never won lol. I think it is really affecting him mentally now, which is kinda sad and funny at the same time)
Yes, they are overpowered 1 lucky shot and you guarenteed win, other than Life other zerg players can't close even to to semi final
If terran lost then I don't see how they can be OP right?
This is the greatest series in RTS history. Makes me so happy yet so sad
step 1: play league of legends
step 2: realize that you want something more complex and start dota
step 3: hm... lets see how this sc2 works, everyone says its so hard
step 4: watch a couple of videos
step 5: nope, i stay with dota 2 :x
Step 6: GTFO cause Starcraft 2 is best,
zakattack1945 i care
Littlx X I know it's hard but it's very rewarding :)
+Littlx X THIS IS ME EXACTLY!!!! LMAOOOO its sooo hard looking!
Littlx X Step 7: Go back to league of legends because dotas art style looks like fucking trash and is impossible to see anything
I play some SC and I like to watch, seeing these guys is just amazing. I can mostly understand their plans and they are beautiful.
Where are the "Protoss is OP" comments?
Protoss wanted to give other races a chance huehuehue
*facepalm*
not op, just gay. Oracles, Forcefields, DT's, collosus deathballs, mass blink stalkers. Dirty as shit.
Also, if you think finalists not being P means P not OP, you stoopit.
herpderpmonkey you guessing
herpderpmonkey What odd adjectives. Gay is a stupid adjective in this context, and as for "dirty", that's what Protoss does. I have watched many protoss losses so it seems like the races are somewhat balanced. If Protoss is so OP, why don't all the top players play it? :)
man wtf how could they focus on 100000 things in the same time....
***** asians
***** a lot of it is muscle memory between hotkeys.
***** a lot of it is muscle strength
***** Cuz asians
@englich fast
watching this while slightly tipsy, every time the commentators start going off my heart rate goes thru the roof even tho I've pretty much no clue what's going on hahaha i love it
I might be biased because I like Zerg and they often lose, but I really, really, really, really hate MMM and widow mines. Unless you are Life, you're probably going to lose to it.
Why don't you play some Terran and how hard to split those MMM?
***** amen to that...
***** Terran Micro is a fucking jok. All range unites + Stim pack and fast medic ? Its the easiest shit you can possibly micro, in addition they are cheap you can Q all barracks and click M and you'll have constant marines coming, with medics that can literally cross the map in just few second. Please don't even compare Terran to Protoss. Protoss are expensive and if you lose you're army you're pretty much done, whereas with Terran you can rebuild a wave of marines and mareuders in less than a min. SC2 is completely broken in Diamond and Master league.
chen7818032 Terran micro and split is so easy to do its a fucking jok. All range unites that can run fast? its more like teaching a kid how to play a strategy game. no offense just saying
Sofiane Morceli Lol I play toss and terran. Saying that Terran micro is easy is pretty stupid. I'd say it's one of the hardest thing to do in SC2. Another thing, when I play Protoss I'm not even scared of loosing units... Evne a zealot 150 life in total ( in wich 50 can regenerate pretty fast all by itself). If I have suffisent macro (wich is easy thanks to chrono boost) I can literally wrap-in in 10 stalkers no sweat on the fly in less than 3 seconds. Not to mention that when you're a terran you can't just send your unit to a protoss fight head on and win You'll get cruuuuuushed badly. You literally have to run away from a fight and drop, harass, micro again again and again as a terran.As a protoss tho lol pure deathball He gets close he dies, as simple as that.
Amazing commentators, they really know how to play this game and share their knowledge with the audience.. Thank you!
"I can't speak, it's my job to speak." lol'd
Its awesome watching good players...
yes like you see them make so much units and stuffs in matter of minutes damn
Maru has gotten so much better now imagine a fight between them in 2019
Life aint got a pc in jail mate lmao
@@nintendohippy3958 i think he only stayed a few months in prison
@@DHAGSFU If only you reply to me as fast as i did too you :(
DHAGSFU cant participate in tournaments completely banned
This might be the greatest series I ever seen on Starcraft 2 with 2 of the very best ever.
Life was the death of the sc2 pro scene in korea
life threw his career away. such a brilliant player both in terms of macro and micro.
He was like 16-17 when the match fixing happened, he probably didn't now better
What was the match fixing?
SupremeBurger The Great
he got paid about $70,000 to throw 2 matches a while back.
ahhh
He got thrown in jail.
If you've played Starcraft 2 at all, watching this is really amazing.
Very enjoyable games. Absolutely sick gameplay from Life & Maru. Can't believe I missed this the first time around :(
Who else has never seen SC2 and has no idea what is going on?
Dayne Fellowes same, but it looks rad as fudge
+Dayne Fellowes When I play SC2 I get super excited. After the mid-game I dont know whats going on... All I know is I suck at it :(
+Dayne Fellowes i've never played starcraft 2, but i watch it on youtube regulary, You learn what's going on just by watching :)
+Dayne Fellowes i definitely have no idea whats going on, but i'm enjoying to see the troops fighting eachothers
+Dayne Fellowes never heard of....not seen*
This is exactly why I stopped trying to play SC and SC2 after 20-30 unfortunate attempts. This is literally impossible to get to at least half of these guys' skill level.
+vadimyakus Well, they play like 8 hours a day, 6 days a week for salary! of course you won't get to that level by playing it as a hobby - and still, you can improve drastically by practice. Personally, I play this game for 6 hours a week, it's polishing my brain and helps tremendously with my job at IT department
+vadimyakus So we should stop playing Football because we will never be as good as Messi?
+GG GG If they're in team houses supposedly they play 10-12 hours, with food breaks.
*****
So does basketball players who practice nonstop to win in NBA games and stuff if that's what you think about them.
"What a stupid comparison" "learn to debate a topic"
Yeah yeah you know what I don't care if you hate esports or if you go to starcraft videos just to pour hate on people who play this for salary. Cuz there are millions of people who will easily tell you otherwise. And I don't need to debate, you clearly will just end up saying "Oh fuck you all nerds go to your basements and die" so I'll just save my time and ignore you. Just like the other ones who has the same opinion as you.
EXCELLENT micro from both sides. Amazing games
Last week i lost this video halfway through watching it, just found it again
Even though he lost the last game, I still admire Maru's almost-hold on that ramp. It was actually pretty damn clutch!
The moment when you click on the minimap when watching a video D:
Amazing series.
almost 2018, watching this for the 5th time now - What a final!
Life, oh Life! What a game on Overgrowth!
Maru seemed a little shaken by that pause, lost the reapers without micro-ing them effectively and failed to wall off his natural expand. That being said, the pause cannot be proffered as a potential excuse/reason for losing because he (Maru) had clearly typed "gogo", indicating that he was ready for the game to resume. Well deserved win by Life.
3 years later but this was so intense and good
Excellent series! Would have been epic to have seen this in person.
Do they make the life finds a way joke on purpose
Yes.
I knew one was coming when I clicked play
Capeau why u mad? :(
Life is so fucking beast THOSE COMEBACKS
This is the epitome of what is the best comeback ever played in a game in a Grand scale as this... I love playing as a Zerg and truly a legit Life fan but goodness... biased or unbiased... just keep it 100 if you have the time to watch it from start to finish... a magnificent finals played by both players...
Probably the most exciting match in esports history.
Casting is exquisite X
I bet this game is so much easier for Life than it looks to the rest of us. Good god what a beast. I would never in a million years be able to take a game off of him.
Is there a video after the game? i want to see Life's and Maru's reaction, and the interview.
I can't believe I used to be pretty decent at a game that looks so sophisticated while watching when I was younger. The good ol days. Maybe I should start playing again.
Amazing... amazing... That Zerg guy is incredible! Nossa eu não botava fé na vitória do menino Zerg. Esta virada no final foi incrível. Amei o vídeo!!!!
Life is definitely a pro at knowing where to send his overlord. Spot on 7/7 games.
SC2 will NEVER be the same without Life! We miss you
Are you kedding me ? He destroyed StarCraft pro scene completly, basically all sponsores bail out after the match fix drama, he DESTROYED STARCRAFT !! he should be in jail for Life !
@@endryl08if one player is so important to a game's success then maybe they should have made sure that player was surrounded by good influence rather then exploiting players like they did. If you think life is completely at fault for what happen then you clearly dont know how badly exploited these children were treated. The organizations that ran pro teams have been exposed multiple times and documentaries have been made. Considering how much more relax laws are for people his age are in other countries, I believe life was given more then enough of a punishment. History has also shown just how horrible Blizzard and many of its employees were. In reality the true criminals are the adults who make it a business to compete in games for such large sums of cash when so many people are being used as slaves around the world.
i dont play anymore but i grew up in a starcraft household, being able to watch these matches and know exactly what plays are being made is such an awesome experience in itself
edit: its worth learning/playing these games because you get to see just how crazy it really is
I still can't get over how young these guys are.
1:51:56 I can't believe Kaelaris went for a burp that loud.
Haha.. that's not actaully a burp, you know that, right?
ObservableFiction Yes.
PooooLsharK Good. Weird joke, perhaps it would sound better than it reads, that's a common problem with text jokes, you know.. speaking of.
WTF these opponents are incredibly entertaining
What an amazing series!
Excellent series.
the video was cut way too early, should have shown some of the celebrations like 5 mins after the winning game. >
I searched for "best of korean starcraft" and this is what came up lol
@24:50 how did maru defend this?!
@25:15 best bane hit :v
@26:50 shuffling marine line
@28:40 amazing mine engagement and bait
@42:00 great drop play
Game 2 was SO fucking good.
So much constant action, love it!
Damm is weird when no other Zerg can catch my interest like Life
He would have been at the top alongside rogue dark serral reynor.
I would require 3 arms with 3 mouse and 2 heads and 2 screens to be able to play like this guys lol
Love the flora/architecture combo on the first map.
Used to play starcraft/broodwar with my countrys champion. 15-16 y ago. Good times !
Zerg is love zerg is LIFE
nice poetry my friend
Fucking love watching these
Best ....series.... ever! Watching it second time...
Feels good to be back. Thanks dad for bringing me into starcraft back in brood war
After the first game life's face be like 'YEAH U KNOW I WON THAT SHIT'
Stop at 00:00, the guy in the front...
miss you so much :' (
No idea what's going on but I enjoy the pretty colours and excitement :3
fucking fantastic series. even as a terran, I have to give respect to Life's play here- watch game one and tell me this kid isn't incredible
bruh MARU is 17 or 18, hes the real MVP, im toss but nothing better than a TvZ and being able to play with only marine and mines is crazy skill, i remember him from 2013s WCS Global (because it was the first year i got into sc) he wrecked and now hes playing soo good. My first favourite sc idolmwas MCnthe BossToss, his blink micro and confidence made me play protoss xD but MARU is a terran legend so young he gonna be the next Bomber xD
Dude life uses mostly hatch tech, lol hes the pro, you toss player
Life just turned 18
The next Bomber? Bomber is trash compared to Maru.
SleepyFoX
Bomber is actually pretty sick. Unfortunately he is inconsistent. Sometimes he 4-0s Ro4 GSL Terran, on the other day he is struggling with Code A Toss. And i am actually surprised that Bomber and Maru are getting compared with each other. They have different strengths and different playstyles
SKBMen Consistency is everything about being a top level player. Yes Bomber can on a good day beat any elite player. He even defeated Rain convincingly recently. But so can many players.
I've been watching sc2 for many years and Bomber has never impressed me. He's strong, but never as good as people like to hype him as because he can never pull good results consistently.
Maru for example was one of the strongest players in Korea for the entire of 2014 in a meta where Terran was at it's darkest. Even now, he goes in tournaments as a favourite to win among many absurdly good players.
That was a freaking awesome series!!! :-D
Brawo najlepszy mecz jaki widzialem :)
Every time I see Life win ZvT... he wins..but I always still feel how OP terran is. Feels like zerg of equal skill against terran would lose and zerg has to be really better than the opponent to win.
Then you should try to play Terran
try chen's suggestion. You don't just want to "feel" this or that, you have to examine if they really are this or that. After getting a good feel for yourself the pros and cons of terrans by playing that race extensively, you can then judge (rather than just feel) whether or not Terran OP
@ Kevin Yang... I 100% agree with you man.
exactly how i feel too. disappointing at this game it could have been so much better.
JokerD Both played amazingly, but these matches went the way most tvz goes. The only way zerg ever wins against terran is by a baneling bust. If the zerg doesn't do crippling damage early on, then terran always wins. The game may go back and forth for a while, but Terran comes out on top. It's because MMM is extremely cost effective and dominates starting at around 10 minutes into the game until about 18 minutes in went the top tier units start to be built, e.g., ultras
Life come back, everything is forgiven! He should come back to SC2. Just move out from Korea.
MAN, what a series. Holy shit did not expect that comeback what so ever. Very happy to see Life turn it around after seeing such a good game from him in game one. Both these guys man, like wth I would shed tears if I ever had to defend their shit.
I love this kind of match up, I was dancing in my chair the whole time!
You could say " Life finds a way"
I like how life pauses when he is completely falling apart to maru's multi prong attack and then instantly crushes it as soon as it is unpaused since he got time to fully analyze everything. Speed and endurance is a part of the game, and if life was experiencing lag so was maru.
Caden Ulschmid >completely falling apart
Over statement. A few reapers and a hellion force split from the few at home are not too much to deal with.
Caden Ulschmid Not necessarily - depends on how they connected. It might be that just Life was lagging. I don't see the issue - why would you give your opponent a chance by crippling yourself? Who knows if your opponent has lag - maybe it's just you and you just lost because of it? It's a tournament - just pause and let admins resolve it.
And if Life had time to analyze - so had Maru...
Caden Ulschmid they both might have been lagging maybe. they were def both thinking during the pause. i see no problem and woulda been bigger if he didnt pause
Life what a beast, we need him back
Crazy to see maru today his strategies and cunning is next level
best game ever
i miss playing this game :C XD
cameron evans Then log in to Battle.net and PLAY!!!
but im so baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad XD
cameron evans Then play me in Bronze league bro.
xD i dont have the full version yet :P nd ill wreck yuu
cameron evans I'm almost blind. And I play StarCraft. Ofcourse not online against others, I rather play for FUN while others play for PRO.
This is like the most important game in IEM history
Great finals between the 2 best in the world right now. Marus time will come he's a beast. Life finds a way...