For the record I had no idea Dr. Mike was going to make an overhead video today. He released it about the same time. I was talking to a few guys earlier this morning about the topic. It was on my mind first thing out of bed. I haven't even seen Dr. Mike's video, don't know his point of view, and this was certainly not a response.
When you and Dr. Mike Israetel both release Overhead Pressing vids within the same hour while I am setting a goal for a two-plate standing military press, I know I am destined to achieve my goal.
@@MassiveIron @Massive Iron - Steve Shaw yeah Bro 😁 Title's Overhead pressing optimized for muscle growth uploaded an 1 hour ago. Love OHP man I'm close to my goal 185 lbs now I'm at 165 lbs x 5 💪😎 More power to your channel Big hairy ugly dude hehe. I'm an OG! 😁✌️
OP for side/front delts, BP & incline press for front delts and rows/Pendley rows for rear - it ain’t difficult - basic compound movements that have been used for years are still the most effective and efficient for desired results. If it ain’t broke….
Anecdotally speaking, I noticed great side delt gains after adding seated OHP into my program. And for those who care about science, Paul Carter talked about how OHP works the side delts almost as much as the front delts.
All my shoulder gains come from OHP and other pressing movements... Never have I ever done side delt work,... And for rear delts I just increased my rowing sets instead of facepulls, and that's it
I couldn't imagine taking out overhead pressing. Currently loving seated arnold press (with dumbbells). Smokes my shoulders and traps. I totally agree about shoulder health... my shoulders feel like absolute crap if I don't do any overhead work.
Too many gym goers have lackluster results because they don't want to be strength athletes. If isolation of muscle groups with exercises was the major key to growth, powerlifters, Olympic lifters and strong men would forget the basics when trying to improve between contests. Thanks for the video.
Until now I didn't even know what else to do for my side delts besides lateral raises. This video especially helped me out because my side and rear delts are my weakest body parts.
It is, and it isn't. Conventional barbell OHP with a more narrow grip typically used with higher intensity, not really gonna do much for the side delts. There's very little if any abduction of the arm occurring. But, a wider grip, or with a one of the endless variations of OHP, you can pick up the side delts pretty effectively so long as the arm is being abducted. I'm on conventional OHP right now, so I added Lu raises and I'm also using a convergent shoulder press machine to get that abduction to pick up the medial delt.
Completely agree. My take on this is we know shoulder press works the side delts and having some exercise variety is good for maximising muscle growth so stick in a few sets of shoulder presses each week to go in addition to your lateral raises and face pulls.
It's impossible to isolate front or rear delts; any exercise you do to target either one will work side delts. Overhead front raises take the upper arm through the same arc and ROM as the OH press and fully activate the medial head, so you can do them in place of OH presses if you have shoulder issues.
I got back into the gym about 18 months ago, after many, many years away from it (over 60 lifter). Shoulders were always nagging me, until I recently started including barbell OHP and, on alternating days, floor OHP on the Smith machine (higher reps, no back support, head close to the bar so I duck under at the top of the rep), and my shoulders have quieted down a lot; the pain is now the "good" kind. My wife recently commented that my t-shirts are fitting tighter in the shoulders. :) So, my one-subject test program says yes they work.
Once upon a time there were 2 friends who trained together doing bench presses, 1 of em got pumped up delts & triceps & the other got pumped up pecs. If either of em made a vid saying bench presses is only useful for developing the body parts that it developed for them individually, they'd both be disingenuous & myopic.
For years I've done dumbbell overhead press one arm at a time. Also seated overhead dumbbell press. Steve's got sonething good going with bulldozer lateral raises ones side at a time.
I agree... I'm 60yrs 215lbs Athletic built. I focus on compound movements...squat 340lbs. Close Grip TBAR Row 225lbs, and standing OHP 185lbs.... and 95lbs over-head farmers carry. My back and shoulders are thick and strong... I ignore Body Building mentality. I just push, pull and carry like HELL... hahaha
I mostly do OHP for side delts, only did lateral raises for a short while. The contraction on the side of the shoulder is very intense and that area will be good and sore the next day, even without isolations.
Great video, I have actually had this in the back of my mind the last few months, didn’t do any shoulder press for a while because I didn’t think I needed to. But I have been now for a month or so and made good strength gains.
I have never done lateral raises, I hate them. Have reasonable shoulders from a diet of klokovs, seated BTN, seated OHP and push presses. I have always done rear delt work directly instead of side delt. So most programs would have two sets at the end of rear delts and a ton of lateral raises, I always swapped them out and just did rear delt variations.
While you coached me I just listened and asked questions about form ect. I never questioned why you chose particular exercise because that is why I signed on for coaching in the first place.
word! I've been lifting for 5 years and never consistently done laterals because my shoulders pops and cracks too aggressively when doing it so i've been doing barbell and db ohp for my shoulders and my side delts are grown very well. I tried bulldozer laterals the other day and my shoulders didn't pop and crack as much, so i might give them a try and add them to my program
Can't give a shit how inefficient it might be according to soyence. OHP is the coolest, manliest lift ever and I'm doing it cause that alone! Is not the best lift the one you are eager to practice and improve?!
What is the cause of the 10% more power on the seated overhead press? I mean when someone does the standing ohp there is the leg drive,which doesn't really occur on the seated version.
I remember in senior hs year I did handstand and pike pushups push-ups (vertical press) from a wall consistently I noticed a significant increase in size of my side deltoid muscles.
Also, what I never understood is the philosophy of certain powerlifter to never really pay attention to vertical pressing... I kid you not, there are powerlifting coaches in my country who never prescribe vertical pressing to their clients, only flat bench variations and maybe some incline work... My thought was, how fucked up will their shoulders be after 10 years? Like, I feel everything needs to be balanced with quality exercises just like Steve said, hitting the most important movers hard...
I used to do lateral raises a ton and when I started doing heavy overhead pressing my side delts blew up, even tho I skipped raises a lot. My personal favorite variation is trap bar OHP
The only thing is it does give a lot of people shoulder impingement and some go there whole life with no issue you just have to pay attention to your body if there is pain don't do it therapists make a killing of this kind of injury but yes if you are good no issues a awesome addition to you shoulder building program 😁 thanks agen for a awesome video definitely should do them if you can
Massive Iron - Steve Shaw well that's good I wonder how much I would get out of them haven't done them in 17 18 years but thats only cuz I never needed them infack iv never needed eny shoulder workout every Thang else made them grow
I bought a program from a popular UA-camr years ago (sean nal). None of his routines had any overhead presses or pulls from the floor. Needless to say I was very disappointed and got board fast
I felt that overhead presses are comfortably done lateral raises hurt like hell. Your thoughts on lateral raises with internal rotation ? Iam concerned thats why i do not do them
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It might not hit the side delts well if elbows stay in front due to using a narrow grip. Most people use a wide grip with elbows out. The upper arm is going in the same path as lateral raises, so therefore, it must be hitting side delts.
I did BTNs for 22+ years. That's all I know. Also, when I do seated presses my side delt pump is pretty substantial. Nearly every picture you see of my delt pump is right after seated pressing.
Can´t people have some common sense these days? I´ve stopped doing lateral raises and alterating between deficit pikes with mini parallels and normal deficit pikes with upright rows and my delts are looking better 👍
Oh one more thing you've heard the old adage, "just because you've always done it that way, does Not mean it's the best way." This is the info you should absorb in spongelike fashion. 💾📌📋
For the record I had no idea Dr. Mike was going to make an overhead video today. He released it about the same time. I was talking to a few guys earlier this morning about the topic. It was on my mind first thing out of bed. I haven't even seen Dr. Mike's video, don't know his point of view, and this was certainly not a response.
Dr. Mike said it hits the side delts and traps well if you do the full ROM
@@joypass17 and when standing
When you and Dr. Mike Israetel both release Overhead Pressing vids within the same hour while I am setting a goal for a two-plate standing military press, I know I am destined to achieve my goal.
Haha did he? I was busy the last hour working on mine.
@@MassiveIron @Massive Iron - Steve Shaw yeah Bro 😁
Title's Overhead pressing optimized for muscle growth uploaded an 1 hour ago.
Love OHP man I'm close to my goal 185 lbs now I'm at 165 lbs x 5 💪😎
More power to your channel Big hairy ugly dude hehe.
I'm an OG! 😁✌️
Two plates, damn thats a lot. I can barely get to 80kg's. Wishing you success !
@@MarkTBeats I'm only at 160lb at the moment. Long-term strength goal but I will achieve it.
@@blakehannon4864 That's massive! Keep it up!
OP for side/front delts, BP & incline press for front delts and rows/Pendley rows for rear - it ain’t difficult - basic compound movements that have been used for years are still the most effective and efficient for desired results. If it ain’t broke….
Anecdotally speaking, I noticed great side delt gains after adding seated OHP into my program. And for those who care about science, Paul Carter talked about how OHP works the side delts almost as much as the front delts.
Jeff nippard and mark says that if you do them standing it works them better then seated, is that true?
Paul Carter’s opinion on anything is irrelevant although he is right in this case
100℅ agree. If someone removes ohp from shoulder training there is nothing left except fluff exercises. ❤❤❤
I do seated barbell OHP as you suggest and my bench press has improved substantially. Traps looking more yoked, too.
All my shoulder gains come from OHP and other pressing movements... Never have I ever done side delt work,... And for rear delts I just increased my rowing sets instead of facepulls, and that's it
I couldn't imagine taking out overhead pressing. Currently loving seated arnold press (with dumbbells). Smokes my shoulders and traps.
I totally agree about shoulder health... my shoulders feel like absolute crap if I don't do any overhead work.
Too many gym goers have lackluster results because they don't want to be strength athletes. If isolation of muscle groups with exercises was the major key to growth, powerlifters, Olympic lifters and strong men would forget the basics when trying to improve between contests. Thanks for the video.
Once again, excellent and straight forward advice. You'r e good common sense is a primary reason why I'm a subscriber.
Until now I didn't even know what else to do for my side delts besides lateral raises. This video especially helped me out because my side and rear delts are my weakest body parts.
Over head pressing , seated db lateral raises, lateral raises with cables, bull Oder lateral raises , upright rows. You got this bro
@@avxrevo i personally love crucifix side laterals, force you to hit the side delts well
Damn Mike Israetel and Steve Shaw dropping OHP videos within hours, that's fucking incredible.
It is, and it isn't. Conventional barbell OHP with a more narrow grip typically used with higher intensity, not really gonna do much for the side delts. There's very little if any abduction of the arm occurring. But, a wider grip, or with a one of the endless variations of OHP, you can pick up the side delts pretty effectively so long as the arm is being abducted. I'm on conventional OHP right now, so I added Lu raises and I'm also using a convergent shoulder press machine to get that abduction to pick up the medial delt.
Completely agree. My take on this is we know shoulder press works the side delts and having some exercise variety is good for maximising muscle growth so stick in a few sets of shoulder presses each week to go in addition to your lateral raises and face pulls.
I love the overhead press so much. Nothing has built my shoulders as much, not to mention my triceps.
It's impossible to isolate front or rear delts; any exercise you do to target either one will work side delts. Overhead front raises take the upper arm through the same arc and ROM as the OH press and fully activate the medial head, so you can do them in place of OH presses if you have shoulder issues.
I am a fan of standing barbell/dumbbell overhead press. I will never give them up.
Agree!! Love overhead press. Is my main side delt exercise . Like you say you are only left with light weight anemic exercises otherwise !
I got back into the gym about 18 months ago, after many, many years away from it (over 60 lifter). Shoulders were always nagging me, until I recently started including barbell OHP and, on alternating days, floor OHP on the Smith machine (higher reps, no back support, head close to the bar so I duck under at the top of the rep), and my shoulders have quieted down a lot; the pain is now the "good" kind. My wife recently commented that my t-shirts are fitting tighter in the shoulders. :) So, my one-subject test program says yes they work.
OHP- the forgotten 4th powerlift.
Once upon a time there were 2 friends who trained together doing bench presses, 1 of em got pumped up delts & triceps & the other got pumped up pecs. If either of em made a vid saying bench presses is only useful for developing the body parts that it developed for them individually, they'd both be disingenuous & myopic.
Good video i’ve always done overhead presses but i was starting to put more effort in side laterals and rear laterals Thanks
For years I've done dumbbell overhead press one arm at a time. Also seated overhead dumbbell press. Steve's got sonething good going with bulldozer lateral raises ones side at a time.
I agree... I'm 60yrs 215lbs Athletic built. I focus on compound movements...squat 340lbs. Close Grip TBAR Row 225lbs, and standing OHP 185lbs.... and 95lbs over-head farmers carry. My back and shoulders are thick and strong... I ignore Body Building mentality. I just push, pull and carry like HELL... hahaha
I mostly do OHP for side delts, only did lateral raises for a short while. The contraction on the side of the shoulder is very intense and that area will be good and sore the next day, even without isolations.
Great video, I have actually had this in the back of my mind the last few months, didn’t do any shoulder press for a while because I didn’t think I needed to. But I have been now for a month or so and made good strength gains.
I have never done lateral raises, I hate them. Have reasonable shoulders from a diet of klokovs, seated BTN, seated OHP and push presses. I have always done rear delt work directly instead of side delt. So most programs would have two sets at the end of rear delts and a ton of lateral raises, I always swapped them out and just did rear delt variations.
Yes, sir!!
While you coached me I just listened and asked questions about form ect. I never questioned why you chose particular exercise because that is why I signed on for coaching in the first place.
almost 100k subs 👌
word! I've been lifting for 5 years and never consistently done laterals because my shoulders pops and cracks too aggressively when doing it so i've been doing barbell and db ohp for my shoulders and my side delts are grown very well. I tried bulldozer laterals the other day and my shoulders didn't pop and crack as much, so i might give them a try and add them to my program
My delts got jacked overall from them.
Can't give a shit how inefficient it might be according to soyence. OHP is the coolest, manliest lift ever and I'm doing it cause that alone! Is not the best lift the one you are eager to practice and improve?!
You're my kind of people brother.
you can lift your arm like you would when Ohp-ing and feel the side delt pulling your arm up, it does work it the side delt alot
500 for the man to reach 100k
@@Autisticwanderer me too man he helped me a lot with his massive iro philosophy
I only do behind the neck OHP
I do both, OHP first, then BNP…
People don’t understand anatomy. There is no way that only the tiny front deltoid can press the amount of weight you do on ohp
Dam i love this guy
soo close to 100k
What is the cause of the 10% more power on the seated overhead press?
I mean when someone does the standing ohp there is the leg drive,which doesn't really occur on the seated version.
I remember in senior hs year I did handstand and pike pushups push-ups (vertical press) from a wall consistently I noticed a significant increase in size of my side deltoid muscles.
Also, what I never understood is the philosophy of certain powerlifter to never really pay attention to vertical pressing... I kid you not, there are powerlifting coaches in my country who never prescribe vertical pressing to their clients, only flat bench variations and maybe some incline work... My thought was, how fucked up will their shoulders be after 10 years? Like, I feel everything needs to be balanced with quality exercises just like Steve said, hitting the most important movers hard...
I used to do lateral raises a ton and when I started doing heavy overhead pressing my side delts blew up, even tho I skipped raises a lot.
My personal favorite variation is trap bar OHP
The only thing is it does give a lot of people shoulder impingement and some go there whole life with no issue you just have to pay attention to your body if there is pain don't do it therapists make a killing of this kind of injury but yes if you are good no issues a awesome addition to you shoulder building program 😁 thanks agen for a awesome video definitely should do them if you can
Overheads do not give a lot if shoulder impingement. Never seen one in 38 years.
Massive Iron - Steve Shaw well that's good I wonder how much I would get out of them haven't done them in 17 18 years but thats only cuz I never needed them infack iv never needed eny shoulder workout every Thang else made them grow
I don't think it gives impingement but when I did have that impingement, it did aggravate it a bit
I bought a program from a popular UA-camr years ago (sean nal). None of his routines had any overhead presses or pulls from the floor. Needless to say I was very disappointed and got board fast
You're my kind of people
l like stand ohp
and one hand dumbbells press
I felt that overhead presses are comfortably done lateral raises hurt like hell. Your thoughts on lateral raises with internal rotation ? Iam concerned thats why i do not do them
Use lighter weights, bring arms out to the front a few degrees, elbows bent a few degrees…
@@mdd1963 thanks bro
Can somebody rate this as an upper day/shoulder/delt day: ohp, meadows rows or reg. Bent over rows, and high pulls. Does that sound legit?
What do you think of pre fatiguing side delts with lateral raises before ohp?
I always superset side lateral raises with either overhead presses or presses behind neck.
Changed over to doing OHP/BNP first, lateral raises after. Much heavier OHP weights this way!
Dr. Mike israetel did a video on this
@@johnsmith2221 link?
I saw that youtube quick video and knew your response was coming. Good video as always.
What video was that?
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It’s almost like the the best classic bodybuilders didn’t OHP for their primary shoulder work!! 😂🤣😂🤣
It might not hit the side delts well if elbows stay in front due to using a narrow grip. Most people use a wide grip with elbows out. The upper arm is going in the same path as lateral raises, so therefore, it must be hitting side delts.
I did BTNs for 22+ years. That's all I know. Also, when I do seated presses my side delt pump is pretty substantial. Nearly every picture you see of my delt pump is right after seated pressing.
@Massive Iron - Steve Shaw yes, I'm agreeing. You do it with elbows out, therefore, side delts are hit. I think you misread
Can´t people have some common sense these days? I´ve stopped doing lateral raises and alterating between deficit pikes with mini parallels and normal deficit pikes with upright rows and my delts are looking better 👍
Oh one more thing you've heard the old adage, "just because you've always done it that way, does Not mean it's the best way." This is the info you should absorb in spongelike fashion. 💾📌📋