Yes, you are correct, there will always be people that do this. This is where psychology comes in. Everybody does the things they do for various reasons. Once you're able to understand and navigate those reasons it's easier to sell on value not price. (The psychology is you selling value to their specific needs. People buy the same things for different reasons.)
yes, there are these horrible horrible unreasonable people out there that seem to want your blood and even if you give it to them they are still not happy - cut them loose as soon as possible - don't look back
Hi Angela, yes all you said is very good,and is what I do if I'm not happy with a customer i leave there is people who appreciate my labor i don't have to be a pleaser I'm a housekeeper and I don't forget that😉
Yessss girrrl my slogan for my Home♡maid cleaning business is we don't cut corners, we clean them! I back my word but those customers that find the smallest detail like a water stain on a faucet irritate the crud out of me. Cut ties and move on
Angela Brown thanks hun I appreciate the compliment. I am contemplating on doing the guaranteed or your money back I don't know where you live but I live in California and a lot of greedy people I know the girls that I have do thorough work and it's really would keep them on their toes and hold them accountable I'm just worried that all these greedy people out here would take advantage and it's something I can't take another hit to the business
Ashley, I live in California too, in San Diego, right on the border with Mexico and in my personal opinion, people are greedy here because of the cheap labor that crosses the border to work everyday ( I love my Mexican compatrios but they don't help my business! 😬) I had one client that told me she used to pay $60 dollars for her house cleaning and that the lady stayed there from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. , this was a 4 bedroom 3.5 bathroom home 😟🤦♀️, so when I quote her obviously was way too high for what she used to pay. San Diego is very tough to price because of this reason. Home owners enable the uneven pricing because they pay cash to someone that lives in a country where $60 dollars go a very long way as opposed to us people that live in the states where we needs to pay for taxes, licenseing, insurance and employees/contractors.
Thank you so much. We are going through this. A client where no matter that we clean per the amount of time we are paid for, getting everything done and doing a good job even when they go right behind us and mess it up (walking on freshly mopped floor, unmaking beds, etc) and then saying stuff didn't get done like Mopping a floor a week later for a biweekly cleaning. I even had my eyesight insulted and questioned by the client. We just ended it thanks to your advice
Oh no, it sounds like a tough situation. Sometimes the most productive approach to an impossible situation is to end it. The stress and wasted time is not worth the money. And usually when you say farewell to difficult clients, amazing clients usually come right in and scoop up the time slot and everyone wins. I wish this for you too. Thanks for sharing. Keep up the great work!
I currently work for someone who has a client who can not be pleased. I am currently her 5th cleaner and her house is really dirty. She has given me a two hour spot which is my last one and it is impossible to do all the tasks in the time given. My boss has already said she is going to cut her loose before she gave me the job but has still kept her on. Do I try my best and keep going or tell my boss that I won't do her house. I have never had any problems with any of my other jobs apart from an occasional missing something on a first time cleaning but always get feedback and remedy the issue. I have only done this house once and actually dreading going back!
I do house cleaning and had the same problem. Don't clean the house again. If the customer complains it will be used against you. Ask your boss for a different client. Keep up the great work you do !!
Thank u for ur feedback. I did continue to do the house and she did make several complaints but I just kept my head up and did the best I could in the time slot given. Then a very surprising thing happened this week! The woman contacted my boss and actually gave me a compliment! She said the house looked good! My boss was extremely happy and said that this is the first time in three years she has said anything nice! I know it may not last but that is something to keep me going doing this house. I don't like giving up and I always like to leave a house knowing I gave it my all. So thank u for the encouraging comments. U have no idea how much u have helped
Feel free to use this checklist and ask the customer if there are items that are not a priority. This will help make sure you have time to address the things that are important to your client. savvycleaner.com/worksheets
Angela, you have been such a great learning tool and inspiration for me. I am general manager of a cleaning company that I helped start up with the financial owner. Where can I go to download this worksheet you speak of? I really want to utilize every tool possible, and you are one of my go to people
These customers are usually the same ones that want to pay u a ridiculously small wage in addition to having to accommodate unreasonable pickyness. They want a deal that doesn’t exist. Like paying you only half ur rate to micromanage at every second. Thats saying a lot coming from me because i go way beyond out of my way to accommodate customers. I have only encountered one like this fortunately. I love how she says to agree on expectations ahead of time, crucial!!! The majority are absolutely amazing thankfully! I love my job/business!!
My situation with a client is that she is constantly wanting to change the priorities once or twice a month. When I started cleaning for her the priorities were the same for 5-6 years. Then she slowly started changing priorities every few weeks. Now she has started changing the schedule. It use to be biweekly cleaning. Now she is trying to push it to once a month. I am taking your advise. I will be letting her know that due to changes in my life, I do not feel that we are a good fit anymore. [There are so changes going on. It is a bother that I keep an appointment book with me and have clients days marked in advance. So when I schedule for my family, I do so around clients. I have gotten frazzled and I am will be saying goodbye. She wants me to change our appointments to fit her what, where, and when.]
It's tough dealing with changing priorities and schedules from a long-term client. I'm glad to hear you're taking steps to address it by communicating honestly about the recent changes in your life and how they impact your availability. Setting boundaries and expressing your need for stability and family time is crucial. Remember that prioritizing your well-being is essential, and it's okay to make decisions that benefit your overall happiness. Wishing you the best as you navigate this situation and make positive changes for yourself. Take care, and feel free to reach out if you need more advice or support. You got this!
@AskAngelaBrown She was not happy losing me. I told her that she needed someone who would be more available to her changes. That I was not able to. Especially since she seems to been trying to have me come once a month for what I charge biweekly. [I have tried talking with her to no avail] In this area 4 bedrooms, 2 and half baths, laundry/back entrance, kitchen/dining area, and living room are cleaned $75-$100 for biweekly and $160-$220 monthly. Thank you again for addressing a wide variety of scenarios that a house cleaner may have to deal with. God bless all your endeavors.
I’ve cleaned for a lady for a few months so always gave a tip and was happy. Now the last 2 cleans she finds something not done. Which is my fault. How can I please this customer? Not miss anything? I thought it was a great cleaning both times.
Try asking her for a list of specific things she wants extra attention on or do a quick walk-through with her after the clean to make sure she's happy with everything before you leave👍
Hello, I have found your video too late and wished I have repaid all her money, but the following has already been done. A customer that ordered a moving-out cleaning service. Everyone knows that we cleaners do not move furniture. She first checked the house after I cleaned it and moved them herself saying I found dust. I went back told her we usually do not move fourniture. she replied that I could have said it first which is right, but I am learning through the process. So I cleaned again on the spot. The next day she claims visiting with her sister in-law and complained for the second time saying the same thing about the same dust and removed paint/old marks on old furniture as dirt and request that I clean all-over with no additional price. I said no, reiterated that I do not move fourniture and that we take no responsibility for old stains and removed paint that is a job we do not do, and to pay her bill on time. (in my country if a bill is not paid on time the system will force it everybody will eventually pay). This experience still annoys me for some reason, do you think that was handled well? Thanks for reading and answering.
You did your best in a tricky situation. You learned from it and tried to make things right, but sometimes customers can be tough to please. Keep refining your communication and policies to avoid similar headaches down the road. It's all part of the learning curve!
To remove a ring or residue from an acrylic tub, mix equal parts of white vinegar and water in a spray bottle. Spray the solution onto the affected area and let it sit for a few minutes. Gently scrub the ring with a soft non-abrasive cloth or sponge, then rinse the tub thoroughly with warm water. Dry the tub with a clean cloth and buff if needed. It's important to consult the manufacturer's guidelines for your specific tub and exercise caution to avoid damaging the acrylic surface.
What a strange way to give customers their money back after a thoroughly cleaning job. This seems to give very picky and unrealistic customers a lot of power over cleaning companies it seems, and a lot of fierce competition must be going on... let alone the loss of money? How about making a standardised cleaning procedure, a detailed list of routine jobs that need tp be done daily/weekly etc, required products, ergonomic working environment for the cleaner and to be signed by both parties, as a sort of contract or at least job description, so there is no misunderstanding to begin with wat a cleaner can/will and can/willnot do. And the verification of the execution of the cleaning job can be easy by using this same list/job description at the end of the job. No discussion or hassle needed
For example Some house cleaners have a difrent idea of how clean is a clean window for me it is when you shine a lite on it and you only see the natral glass paterns not any fibers or thin srreaks not visible under dark inviornments i hope all house cleaners pay this level of attention
We have an area manager or myself who are each in charge of 4 house cleaners. If a customer isn't completely satisfied with the first cleaning, I'm not sending the maids back to the location to clean for free but I have to continue paying them per hour for a job we're not getting paid for, so either myself or area manager will go out and clean for two hours or whatever they paid for for free since we are being paid by the hour regardless. If that same customer still complains, not only will we refund their money, but we cut them loose because obviously they can't be pleased or they are just looking for a free cleaning.
Good points. Thanks for sharing Terry. There are customers who are impossible to please. And cutting them loose sometimes is the best option for the bottom line and company morale.
Sorry, I don’t believe in this policy because I’ve had a handful of entitled jerk clients all women that were Karens and just trying to take advantage of the company in our work because we look very sharp and professional. I think we have a lot of money, but we don’t just because we maintain a professional appearance these people think the wrong thing. So they start looking for things and being ridiculously picky about things that don’t even include or are part of the cleaning at all, and yes, it was previously discussed
Hi Angela I have been working at New home sales sites and noticed different cleaning products by Mrs. Meyers ordered for cleaning. The liquid hand soaps are labeled aromatheraputic. Is that a gimmick? Is there such a thing in cleaning products. I bought some but my wife likes her own Cocotions and also prefers bars soap. A competitior Toms soaps are also a pricey buy. Is there a better natural solution.. What do you recommend?
I have a client who asked me to clean less. Even said I should freeze some seeds for next time. That I don’t have to hurry through the house and get so much done. The reason behind the statement, she said was I make her feel dirty. Am I missing something?
yeah...try and match your vision/standards of cleanliness with hers, not everybody has the same high standards of cleaning, sometimes it can make people feel helpless or ashamed (of their `mess`) if you try to clean very thorough...the inteior and personality of the client usualy gives a lot of hints!
I must give u a around of 👏🏽 👏🏽 . I have been watching your videos since 9:30 eastern. They are the 💣 💣 💣. You touch on everything single thing so far. I'm in total awe when it comes to you and your channel. I wish u were a friend of mind that I could call. One that clearly understands all my cleaning problems. Even an upset client. Thank you for the informative videos. Also May God bless u and ur family and friends. May God blessed u and ur family with a blessed and wonderful Christmas and New Year's holiday 🙏🏾
+Leesa Nurse Hey what a lovely thing to say. Thank you so much. You just made my day. And may God bless you and your family in the new year as well. Happy new year🎄🎉🥳
Hey Angela, I've been following your channel for a few months and really enjoy your insights. Tonight I downloaded your house cleaning guide for personal use. Would you recommend spending 30-60 minutes each day cleaning one room or doing one chore like vacuuming all in one go? I work full time but can end up spending a silly amount of time vacuuming every nook and cranny then can't be bothered doing anything else. I even vacuum my cat, he seems to like it lol
My cat is ancient, he's over 20 years old and he's very hard of hearing so the noise of the vacuum cleaner doesn't bother him at all. He's ginger and white and has the typical lush fur of cats that colour, but can't groom so well now and seems to prefer the vacuum attachment rather than the cat brush :-)
Thanks for watching the show. You might want to try cleaning as you go so there are less chores for you to do when you aren’t working. For example, squeegee the shower every time you use it. Vacuuming when you are able to, whether it’s a little each day or all at once, whichever is best for your schedule.
@@AskAngelaBrown Thanks Angela. I left this comment quite a while ago now, and I've since developed the habit of cleaning in 'bursts' of 5-15 minutes, and decluttering in the same fashion, as you suggest. I do still go on a mad vacuuming rampage at times or decide to clean all the windows and glass in one go (then flop on the sofa, knackered!), but overall the method you've stated works pretty well for me.
Take a look at this playlist of similar videos we made on managing clients. More superb info.
ua-cam.com/play/PLh1fKdNH3piTYDd11mysj7uZGfXeuF165.html
Seems like some people just nitpick hoping that they'll get the price lowered too
Yes, you are correct, there will always be people that do this. This is where psychology comes in. Everybody does the things they do for various reasons. Once you're able to understand and navigate those reasons it's easier to sell on value not price. (The psychology is you selling value to their specific needs. People buy the same things for different reasons.)
yes, there are these horrible horrible unreasonable people out there that seem to want your blood and even if you give it to them they are still not happy - cut them loose as soon as possible - don't look back
Thanks for leaving a comment.
Hi Angela, yes all you said is very good,and is what I do if I'm not happy with a customer i leave there is people who appreciate my labor i don't have to be a pleaser I'm a housekeeper and I don't forget that😉
Yessss girrrl my slogan for my Home♡maid cleaning business is we don't cut corners, we clean them! I back my word but those customers that find the smallest detail like a water stain on a faucet irritate the crud out of me. Cut ties and move on
Angela Brown thanks hun I appreciate the compliment. I am contemplating on doing the guaranteed or your money back I don't know where you live but I live in California and a lot of greedy people I know the girls that I have do thorough work and it's really would keep them on their toes and hold them accountable I'm just worried that all these greedy people out here would take advantage and it's something I can't take another hit to the business
Ashley, I live in California too, in San Diego, right on the border with Mexico and in my personal opinion, people are greedy here because of the cheap labor that crosses the border to work everyday ( I love my Mexican compatrios but they don't help my business! 😬) I had one client that told me she used to pay $60 dollars for her house cleaning and that the lady stayed there from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. , this was a 4 bedroom 3.5 bathroom home 😟🤦♀️, so when I quote her obviously was way too high for what she used to pay. San Diego is very tough to price because of this reason. Home owners enable the uneven pricing because they pay cash to someone that lives in a country where $60 dollars go a very long way as opposed to us people that live in the states where we needs to pay for taxes, licenseing, insurance and employees/contractors.
@@kanita0958 yes this is my problem also. I clean for North and South Orange County.
Thank you so much. We are going through this. A client where no matter that we clean per the amount of time we are paid for, getting everything done and doing a good job even when they go right behind us and mess it up (walking on freshly mopped
floor, unmaking beds, etc) and then saying stuff didn't get done like Mopping a floor a week later for a biweekly cleaning. I even had my eyesight insulted and questioned by the client. We just ended it thanks to your advice
Oh no, it sounds like a tough situation. Sometimes the most productive approach to an impossible situation is to end it. The stress and wasted time is not worth the money. And usually when you say farewell to difficult clients, amazing clients usually come right in and scoop up the time slot and everyone wins. I wish this for you too. Thanks for sharing. Keep up the great work!
I currently work for someone who has a client who can not be pleased. I am currently her 5th cleaner and her house is really dirty. She has given me a two hour spot which is my last one and it is impossible to do all the tasks in the time given. My boss has already said she is going to cut her loose before she gave me the job but has still kept her on. Do I try my best and keep going or tell my boss that I won't do her house. I have never had any problems with any of my other jobs apart from an occasional missing something on a first time cleaning but always get feedback and remedy the issue. I have only done this house once and actually dreading going back!
I do house cleaning and had the same problem. Don't clean the house again. If the customer complains it will be used against you. Ask your boss for a different client. Keep up the great work you do !!
Thank u for ur feedback. I did continue to do the house and she did make several complaints but I just kept my head up and did the best I could in the time slot given. Then a very surprising thing happened this week! The woman contacted my boss and actually gave me a compliment! She said the house looked good! My boss was extremely happy and said that this is the first time in three years she has said anything nice! I know it may not last but that is something to keep me going doing this house. I don't like giving up and I always like to leave a house knowing I gave it my all. So thank u for the encouraging comments. U have no idea how much u have helped
Thank you for being a source of encouragement!👏👏👏
Feel free to use this checklist and ask the customer if there are items that are not a priority. This will help make sure you have time to address the things that are important to your client. savvycleaner.com/worksheets
Angela, you have been such a great learning tool and inspiration for me. I am general manager of a cleaning company that I helped start up with the financial owner. Where can I go to download this worksheet you speak of? I really want to utilize every tool possible, and you are one of my go to people
These customers are usually the same ones that want to pay u a ridiculously small wage in addition to having to accommodate unreasonable pickyness. They want a deal that doesn’t exist. Like paying you only half ur rate to micromanage at every second. Thats saying a lot coming from me because i go way beyond out of my way to accommodate customers. I have only encountered one like this fortunately. I love how she says to agree on expectations ahead of time, crucial!!! The majority are absolutely amazing thankfully! I love my job/business!!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the topic. 👍
My situation with a client is that she is constantly wanting to change the priorities once or twice a month. When I started cleaning for her the priorities were the same for 5-6 years. Then she slowly started changing priorities every few weeks. Now she has started changing the schedule. It use to be biweekly cleaning. Now she is trying to push it to once a month.
I am taking your advise. I will be letting her know that due to changes in my life, I do not feel that we are a good fit anymore.
[There are so changes going on. It is a bother that I keep an appointment book with me and have clients days marked in advance. So when I schedule for my family, I do so around clients. I have gotten frazzled and I am will be saying goodbye. She wants me to change our appointments to fit her what, where, and when.]
It's tough dealing with changing priorities and schedules from a long-term client. I'm glad to hear you're taking steps to address it by communicating honestly about the recent changes in your life and how they impact your availability. Setting boundaries and expressing your need for stability and family time is crucial. Remember that prioritizing your well-being is essential, and it's okay to make decisions that benefit your overall happiness. Wishing you the best as you navigate this situation and make positive changes for yourself. Take care, and feel free to reach out if you need more advice or support. You got this!
@AskAngelaBrown
She was not happy losing me.
I told her that she needed someone who would be more available to her changes. That I was not able to. Especially since she seems to been trying to have me come once a month for what I charge biweekly. [I have tried talking with her to no avail] In this area 4 bedrooms, 2 and half baths, laundry/back entrance, kitchen/dining area, and living room are cleaned $75-$100 for biweekly and $160-$220 monthly.
Thank you again for addressing a wide variety of scenarios that a house cleaner may have to deal with.
God bless all your endeavors.
you charging cheap
I’ve cleaned for a lady for a few months so always gave a tip and was happy. Now the last 2 cleans she finds something not done. Which is my fault. How can I please this customer? Not miss anything? I thought it was a great cleaning both times.
Try asking her for a list of specific things she wants extra attention on or do a quick walk-through with her after the clean to make sure she's happy with everything before you leave👍
Hello, I have found your video too late and wished I have repaid all her money, but the following has already been done.
A customer that ordered a moving-out cleaning service. Everyone knows that we cleaners do not move furniture. She first checked the house after I cleaned it and moved them herself saying I found dust. I went back told her we usually do not move fourniture. she replied that I could have said it first which is right, but I am learning through the process. So I cleaned again on the spot.
The next day she claims visiting with her sister in-law and complained for the second time saying the same thing about the same dust and removed paint/old marks on old furniture as dirt and request that I clean all-over with no additional price. I said no, reiterated that I do not move fourniture and that we take no responsibility for old stains and removed paint that is a job we do not do, and to pay her bill on time. (in my country if a bill is not paid on time the system will force it everybody will eventually pay). This experience still annoys me for some reason, do you think that was handled well? Thanks for reading and answering.
You did your best in a tricky situation. You learned from it and tried to make things right, but sometimes customers can be tough to please. Keep refining your communication and policies to avoid similar headaches down the road. It's all part of the learning curve!
What to use on acrylic tub ring?
To remove a ring or residue from an acrylic tub, mix equal parts of white vinegar and water in a spray bottle. Spray the solution onto the affected area and let it sit for a few minutes. Gently scrub the ring with a soft non-abrasive cloth or sponge, then rinse the tub thoroughly with warm water. Dry the tub with a clean cloth and buff if needed. It's important to consult the manufacturer's guidelines for your specific tub and exercise caution to avoid damaging the acrylic surface.
Great and thorough advice!
What a strange way to give customers their money back after a thoroughly cleaning job. This seems to give very picky and unrealistic customers a lot of power over cleaning companies it seems, and a lot of fierce competition must be going on... let alone the loss of money? How about making a standardised cleaning procedure, a detailed list of routine jobs that need tp be done daily/weekly etc, required products, ergonomic working environment for the cleaner and to be signed by both parties, as a sort of contract or at least job description, so there is no misunderstanding to begin with wat a cleaner can/will and can/willnot do. And the verification of the execution of the cleaning job can be easy by using this same list/job description at the end of the job. No discussion or hassle needed
o, she actually talks about that.....great!!
Thanks for watching, and your encouragement!
For example Some house cleaners have a difrent idea of how clean is a clean window for me it is when you shine a lite on it and you only see the natral glass paterns not any fibers or thin srreaks not visible under dark inviornments i hope all house cleaners pay this level of attention
Thank you for sharing this! 🙂
pwew, yeah. Certainly. If there is time and salary for such impeccable standards, great,
We have an area manager or myself who are each in charge of 4 house cleaners. If a customer isn't completely satisfied with the first cleaning, I'm not sending the maids back to the location to clean for free but I have to continue paying them per hour for a job we're not getting paid for, so either myself or area manager will go out and clean for two hours or whatever they paid for for free since we are being paid by the hour regardless. If that same customer still complains, not only will we refund their money, but we cut them loose because obviously they can't be pleased or they are just looking for a free cleaning.
Good points. Thanks for sharing Terry. There are customers who are impossible to please. And cutting them loose sometimes is the best option for the bottom line and company morale.
Sorry, I don’t believe in this policy because I’ve had a handful of entitled jerk clients all women that were Karens and just trying to take advantage of the company in our work because we look very sharp and professional. I think we have a lot of money, but we don’t just because we maintain a professional appearance these people think the wrong thing.
So they start looking for things and being ridiculously picky about things that don’t even include or are part of the cleaning at all, and yes, it was previously discussed
Oh no, it sounds like there is a story there. I'm sorry you had to experience that.
Hi Angela I have been working at New home sales sites and noticed different cleaning products by Mrs. Meyers ordered for cleaning. The liquid hand soaps are labeled aromatheraputic. Is that a gimmick? Is there such a thing in cleaning products. I bought some but my wife likes her own Cocotions and also prefers bars soap. A competitior Toms soaps are also a pricey buy. Is there a better natural solution.. What do you recommend?
Mrs. Meyers is a good brand as are Toms Soaps. It really comes down to preference. The aromatheraputic label means it smells nice.
I have a client who asked me to clean less. Even said I should freeze some seeds for next time. That I don’t have to hurry through the house and get so much done. The reason behind the statement, she said was I make her feel dirty. Am I missing something?
Sounds like you are an awesome and efficient cleaner!
yeah...try and match your vision/standards of cleanliness with hers, not everybody has the same high standards of cleaning, sometimes it can make people feel helpless or ashamed (of their `mess`) if you try to clean very thorough...the inteior and personality of the client usualy gives a lot of hints!
I must give u a around of 👏🏽 👏🏽 . I have been watching your videos since 9:30 eastern. They are the 💣 💣 💣. You touch on everything single thing so far. I'm in total awe when it comes to you and your channel. I wish u were a friend of mind that I could call. One that clearly understands all my cleaning problems. Even an upset client. Thank you for the informative videos. Also May God bless u and ur family and friends. May God blessed u and ur family with a blessed and wonderful Christmas and New Year's holiday 🙏🏾
+Leesa Nurse Hey what a lovely thing to say. Thank you so much. You just made my day. And may God bless you and your family in the new year as well. Happy new year🎄🎉🥳
Hey Angela, I've been following your channel for a few months and really enjoy your insights. Tonight I downloaded your house cleaning guide for personal use. Would you recommend spending 30-60 minutes each day cleaning one room or doing one chore like vacuuming all in one go? I work full time but can end up spending a silly amount of time vacuuming every nook and cranny then can't be bothered doing anything else. I even vacuum my cat, he seems to like it lol
Fwiw I posted this with 'I am my own worst critic' in mind. I'd be far less critical of a house cleaner than I am of my own efforts!
My cat is ancient, he's over 20 years old and he's very hard of hearing so the noise of the vacuum cleaner doesn't bother him at all. He's ginger and white and has the typical lush fur of cats that colour, but can't groom so well now and seems to prefer the vacuum attachment rather than the cat brush :-)
Thanks for watching the show. You might want to try cleaning as you go so there are less chores for you to do when you aren’t working. For example, squeegee the shower every time you use it.
Vacuuming when you are able to, whether it’s a little each day or all at once, whichever is best for your schedule.
@@AskAngelaBrown Thanks Angela. I left this comment quite a while ago now, and I've since developed the habit of cleaning in 'bursts' of 5-15 minutes, and decluttering in the same fashion, as you suggest. I do still go on a mad vacuuming rampage at times or decide to clean all the windows and glass in one go (then flop on the sofa, knackered!), but overall the method you've stated works pretty well for me.