Homemade vs. store bought edge clamps
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- More testing on Marius's edge clamps vs. the expensive Bessey edge clamps.
Testing force applied with a jig and a load cell, friction limits of the cams, and practicality of edge clamps for some applications.
Hi from France ! Hello Mathias! I wrote recently that it was a shame that the subtitles weren't working and I was sorry because I've always been a fan of your channel!
Tonight, miraculously, they're on and in French. So now it's going to be great to follow you and understand!
Magnificent, isn't it? !
I uploaded this video to my second channel at the same time, where subtitle generation actually works, then copied the subtitles from that upload onto this channel, and deleted the video on the other channel. That's what I had to do. Don't know why subtitles don't generate on this channel.
thank you for going through that!@@matthiaswandel
It will be interesting to see the same clamp in five years after the bean counters redesign it, "To make it better". Just like the black and decker Work Mate, when that first came out it was a fantastic tool...now a shadow of what it originally was and not even a good toy. Great video Matthias thumbs up.
When a mad scientist takes up woodworking as a hobby.
Sir, you are amazing.
Just came to say that I didn’t watch this because the thumbnail failed to communicate a click-baity narrative
Yes, not click baity enough, and dropping on a random Thursday morning ? Not Sunday morning like the other 100 videos that show up in my feed all at once.
Trick clamp manufacturers don't want you to know
Definite zero out of 10. Would not watch the whole video again.
You won't BELIEVE how much clamping force this DIY clamp has!
The video is also far too long and informative at 10 minutes. My standard is a maximum 30-second video that teaches me nothing but gives me a false sense of learning and only serves to further decrease my attention span to 5 seconds.
just cause comments might help push it for the algorithm: Yes, I did watch it and enjoyed it. This is the kind of in depth content I crave on youtube. I love all the experiments you do, they're a fascinating view into a world I may or may not know a lot about, and pretty much an instant click when I see you uploaded something new regardless of the topic!
That frame from the store clamp is certainly of excellent quality, so that is a no-brainer "buy" instead of "DIY", if you can pay the price, that is.
I agree that most people do not seem to care about tests and would rather watch you work on something "tangible". Still, I think it's a nice addition to your videos, because it teaches everyone to think like an engineer.
After reading your comment, there’s always the point that you usually need more than one clamp to do a job like glueing edge pieces on. So buying, say four or five factory made clamps, it is very expensive over homemade clamps that can provide enough clamping force to get the job done. How much force is actually needed to glue on edge pieces and what other uses can you use a clamp like that for?
I would use the homemade clamps and use the money saved to buy more of a type that you would use more often.
@@Hoaxer51 Sure, but don't forget that the time invested in designing, tweaking, and building each clamp has a price too. I remember Marius gave an estimate of the amount of hours that he took to build the clamps but I don't remember the exact amount (but I believe it was several tens of hours), and that is without considering the designing phase and the tools required.
Overall, I would say that if you add the overhead costs to each clamp, you wouldn't be that much far off the price of the store unit. Sure, one would need to have proper data to tell for sure, but I would be surprised if that were not the correct outcome.
Matthias should have a "DIY or buy" series to analyze these things, as other youtubers like GreatScott have.
@@PayneMaximus, It seems that most DIY’s don’t really consider time when they think about the costs of their products, maybe it’s the enjoyment of making something yourself. It’s also where they can really save money on the project, but you are right, time is money.
I really like your idea about doing a cost difference between buying and building your own, and using with your time against without your time. I’m sure that building something as a one-off would be much more expensive than making, say ten pieces, so maybe include something like that into the equation.
@@Hoaxer51 Sure, DIYers clearly enjoy the process so it's understandable that such time would not be factored in. However, there is always the possibility of doing "something else" that you enjoy or even working on something that would yield you money (maybe your job pays you $15 or more per hour). To be fair, I believe such cost should be taken into account always.
I think having a head-to-head comparison between DIY and retail products would be an interesting addition, especially since Matthias has spent so much time already creating his own projects and tools.
@@PayneMaximus
OK if your time being paid for, your point is valid, but if like me I am retired so my time needs some activity to keep me occupied and moving to stay healthy. So if you find wood working enjoyable then making edge clamps may pay dividends in more ways then money.
love your use of microcontrollers and the load cell
I haven’t been watching enough of your content recently. I love the creative jigs and test apparatus you come up with.
Watching Matthias’s videos, of either making or breaking things, are always both entertaining and inspiring.
I love your videos. I like the inspiration they give me to make some of my own tools rather than buy everything. Especially when I can't afford lots. Keep make great videos like this one.
As always, an interesting topic. But it sort of begs the question, how much force do you really need for edge banding? Do those that use masking tape to clamp their edge band achieve optimal (or at least sufficient) glue bond?
Your comment that your wood gears are holding up just fine made me consider the history of wood gears. I would guess wood gears go back centuries.
Part of it is psychological: tape might be more than enough for edge banding, but I’ll never fully trust it.
yeah all of this is way overkill.
Leonardo da Vinci didn't know about involute gear teeth. He used pegs, which worked, at the cost of higher friction, backlash, and wear.
@@justfellover peg gears were very strong, and useful for water wheels etc, but way before Leonardo. Look at the Antikythera mechanism, they had bronze gearing (not involute, but still toothed) in the 1st to 2nd century BC.
Dear Mr. Wandel, fantastic video, excellent expression of ideas and expansion of our minds with your techniques and methods and testing styles. Thank you for this great video. Tom from Toronto.
Edge clamps are good for edge cases lol! I usually use some long pipe clamps. Would be interesting how normal clamp force drops off for both screw type and the squeeze type (not sure what those are called). Just use a longer pipe if it's not long enough. Still interesting experiments and filed it in my memory, maybe I'll use it someday for something else.
Great video and very interesting finding about the soft rubber on the edge clamp! 😎
Wonderful to see two of my favorite UA-camrs working together.
I watch (and click the like button) all your videos, Matthias because you are definitely a heck of a lot more learned than I am. As a rule of thumb (for me) I try to watch all the videos made by people much smarter than I am. That's how we learn. BTW: I was thinking about your slippage issue and it occurs to me that there's a specific product that is made to counter slippage...ribbed gripper gloves. Use a strong enough adhesive (contact cement, maybe?) and glue some cut ribbed rubber from a work glove onto the gripper parts. What do you think?
generally, rubber ribs help slippage by moving liquid away from the contact. Or the ribs can flex and lock into the other material. In a dry scenario, on flat surfaces, I don't think they would help much.
Keep in mind that you do not want the gripping surface to prolong the failure of a material, even for a moment. Ribbed gripper gloves stretch and obscure what is actually happening to the material when the pressure is applied. You want the grip to be secure and brittle, as much as that sounds contradictory. You want the grip to perfectly fail when the material does - having such a grip reduces how many variables you have to account for and can make the test more definitive.
If you are testing for how a material fails, then you want to only test the material and NOT your harness. It's hard to do right, but doing so tends to give accurate results.
Great suggestion though. I like the way you think. There are so many things we can use to grip other things, and this is not a bad start. There has to be other materials like ribbed gripper gloves that are not nearly as elastic. They may be similar to what was shown in the test, but every 1% matters.
@@Snyper20 I actually did think about this and came to the conclusion (probably wrongly so, but...) that the contact cement, once dried, would stiffen the glove gripper material almost to the point of being, as you say, brittle, yet stable. Actually, now that I think about it, what about eliminating the rubber glove material and just use some sort of epoxy or other type of liquid adhesive substance that would dry to the point of creating a stable, tacky surface? I don't think it would be strong enough but, what made me think of this, was having had (in my youth) melted hot glue sticks into a small, somewhat tall (~8") container and then dipping tool handles into the hot glue and letting it cool. Basically I just created my own rubber tool handle coatings at about half (or less) the cost of getting the Dip, which has a tendency to dry out, in the bottle it comes in, long before it's all used up. At least, it did, for me, anyway. Maybe I was using it wrong?🤪🤣 Even so, the hot glue method was still cheaper.
There is probably a rubber or material that is better suited for the jaws of the clamp and will work better, but I doubt that the gripper glove material is rated for 400kg of force. Maybe if you had gorilla hands they'd make gloves that way!!
You keep making these niche videos (that we like) and often say "this won't get many views" but you still keep making niche videos and your small band of weirdos on YT remains happy. *I* liked the video!
I'm not even sure what I'm screaming, but I'm screaming about the acme threads in the Bessey vs. the 60 degree threads in Marius' lovely homemade clamp.
It's way too early to be coherent and concise, but I'm really enjoying this look into 'good enough' and engineering down. I don't know why I find product design so fascinating!
Pretty interesting experiments indeed, Matthias! Awesome work! 😊
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Stay safe? Is he in a dangerous place?
@@pompus9068 We all are, dude. This world is mad lately...
@@MCsCreations Word
@@MCsCreations I completely agree with you.
I hope you stay safe too.
@@skippylippy547 Thank you! The same to you! 🖖😊
Clamp integratey is important on the basis of securing etc definitely worth watching this video matthias.
Marius' video on these was great too.
You keep making them I’ll keep watching them!
Must See Edge Clamps - - - Wait for it . . .
Amazing! dude you RnD's for your friend. If he can improve the rubber you just instantly made his product so much better!
I watched it and enjoyed it. Always enjoy your videos.
Well, dispite your optomisim at the end, I love your testing videos a lot! 👏👏❤❤
Will I ever need an edge clamp.. no. Did I watch and thoroughly enjoy the entire video.. yes
Thank you for the gripping presentation.
Long time subscriber. Love your content! The view count actually looks pretty good haha I think your thumbnail actually helped
I like your tests mathias, Stay healthy...
At those pressures achieved, *you're likely to squeeze out too much glue to secure the joint as desired anyway.* The edging I've done has been glue, brad nails and was unfathomably strong, but I managed to break the butt-joints on one box with bruit force blunt trauma, and everything came off superbly clean. *The glue was liquid nails in a caulk type tube that was slightly watered down, and put into a dispensing/distributing bottle.*
It's supposed to be incredibly strong and reliable, but I have often found it is not.
I've found liquid nails gets brittle after a while and is not suitable for anything.
EDIT: I'm in Sydney. For US readers. Sydney has very similar to Los Angeles climate, so it wasn't getting brittle from being cold.
@@SauronsEye it has been successful and incredibly strong for some projects, but I will rarely ever use it again if at all. I've glued objects that were given days to dry in ideal conditions and had them pop apart from mild pressure or movement. I think because I watered it down in a bottle for a wood glue, it attained good penetration on those projects and has held incredibly well, otherwise, used pure it would have failed.
Great video Matthias! I might me in your minority but I’ve been watching you from the beginning. Thank you for sharing your content, I have always loved your channel.
Looking forward to the next cooperation between Marius and you.
Here's a free comment and interaction from someone that appreciates non-clickbait titles! As always, great experiments and testing :)
Great video as always.
I have been wondering why Marius made his clamps quite a lot thinner than the Bessy clamps. If you made the wooden ones from plywood to the same dimensions as the metal ones then it would overcome the weakness that the hole for the threaded rod introduces to the wooden frame. Also, the clamping surfaces of the cams would have a lot more surface area and therefore grip a lot better.
he wanted them to take up less space side by side in a drawer
@@matthiaswandel Makes sense. Thanks for the answer!
@@matthiaswandel It would be interesting to make a plywood frame the same size and see how it compares to the metal one.
I watched it; I enjoyed it! Great stuff. Thanks Matthias and Marius!
Always fun to see what you’re up to. Thanks for an entertaining as well as informative video!
If Matthias posts, I watch. As should anyone.
I used to work as a copy machine technician and the parts that were constantly cleaned or replaced were the tires in the paper pickup mechanism. The three tires/wheels were pickup, feed & friction or reverse roller to prevent double feed of paper sheets. The rollers that performed the best were for the Konica-Minolta machines as the rollers had ribs perpendicular to the paper travel path. To clean the rubber, all I had to do was put some WD-40 on a rag and wipe them down to re-tackify and re-surface. Another brand (Ricoh) used a textured silicone type rubber that to clean, you just used a bit of Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol. I much more preferred the ribbed rubber rollers to the slightly textured silicone rollers!!! If you need a visual of what these rollers look like, you can go to "precisionroller".
PS--Just a thot, but I wonder how a piece of toothed/ribbed rubber CNC/3D printing drive belt would work on the cams?🤔
It was ann interesting video. Sometimes these are more compelling to watch than others for some reason.
the orange rubber on the bessey edge clamp looks like same/similar silicone(?) based material that’s used for the stronger/thicker resistance bands used for physiotherapy (they essentially look like huge and flat heavy duty rubber bands for exercise purposes). you guys should look into substituting that material for the wedge friction instead of whatever standard rubber you’ve ended up using, it may have better grip properties
btw, i like this content
its much stiffer than the therapy bands
@@matthiaswandel The Bessey material looks like that used for commercial bandsaw tires.
It’s polyurethane
@@gorinator Bingo... similar to skateboard wheels.
Hey - I’ve enjoyed everyone of your videos. Dude - cool!
Always interesting videos sir!!
I found it interesting. I find all your miscellaneous experiments interesting.
Such a good suggestion on the L shaped lip on the edge. Hopefully targeted engagement with relevant discourse helps out.
Always Interesting Videos on your channel.. THX!!
I didn't watch it and I'm commenting.
OK, OK, I lied. I watched it and enjoyed it. Thanks for the video Matthias.
Would be interesting to design and test an edge clamp designed for the type of edging you like.
It would be nice if it clamped the bottom of the edge upward to the table. Perhaps a clever reshaping of one of the cams would be enough to accomplish this. It wouldn't need to clamp hard enough in that direction to prevent movement. That part is already taken care of. Just enough to close the gap.
I enjoyed it. Thank you for your experiment.
A very interesting experiment!
Very informative and useful. Thank you
Love your stuff! Thank you.
I liked it! Than you from Southeast British Columbia!
You could remove the handle and thread on a nut with a little bar welded on it, for tightening/loosening, to lock the clamping force. Or maybe a flip-up locking collar made from a nut cut in 2 like used on a quick release vice.
I watched and found it exceedingly interesting.
sorry about your yt algos. nothing wrong with making content you enjoy that will be out there for years for your future self and kids to go back and watch.
In one fast forward test it is easy to see the rubber stretch about 2mm and retract back most of that.
I watched, I found it interesting!
But I watched, and I found it interesting. Another nice one.
Great video! Keep up the good work dude
No.... this is a nice video, thanks Matthias !
the "rubber" material on the Bessey looks similar to the band saw tire material often sold on fleebay. Maybe urethane tires?
Meanwhile...
Mark Rober: THIS is a piece of rubber, and THIS is my iPhone from the top of the Empire State Building.
I watch your videos because you're awesome Matthias! Clickbait or not.
I think wider cams might make for less drop off with the same materials. Obviously the clamp would be larger and not fit as well in some cases, but overall might grip better.
You did your best to clamp-bait us into watching
Seriously, is there anyone who makes cooler test setups and videos than Mattias Wandel??
Project farm may be?
Well, I watched it with interest because...well - because it interests me!
I wonder how Marius's clamps would perform using the Andy Klein cork rubber
Thanks for the vidya!!!🤗 I find materials engineering and implementation to be extremely fascinating!!! 💯🏆
I watched it. What if you would use rubber that has ridges horizontal to the wood in the design, maybe it would grip better?
Here's an engagement point to encourage non-clickbaity titles/thumbnails.
I fail to understand the concern about the ultimate strength of these clamps. They ae EDGE clamps, intended to support small pieces of material while an adhesive cures. Unless, of course you intend to repurpose them to suspend a piano from the ceiling. I think there was an ad about doing just thar some years ago. Interesting video, as usual.
They need to be brutally strong so they can squeeze out all the glue and make divots in fine hardwood, of course!
Conclusion: The Bessey clamp is a hell of a product
Can you do a video testing eyebrow trimmers to their failure point? You are just the guy Matthias!!
Hi Matthias! Great video as usual. I’ve seen so much content around the strength of glue and/or the strength of clamps. I wonder if you have done or could do some tests to determine how much clamping force is actually necessary? 40kg seems excessive for the vast majority of woodworking, but I’m curious if there’s a quantifiable relationship between joint strength (across various types of joints, of course) and clamping force during the glue up.
Great educational video
I watched the previous videos you and Marius did on these edge clamps and was interested in a seeing you test them even more.
Maybe there is a UA-camr out there who tests how vulnerable people are to clickbait thumbnails? They’d probably be making big money for ad firms…
Informative as always… even without the click-bait title…
i watched it and more importantly, enjoyed it.
Do you have a recommendation on what you found to be the best design ? What about a brand ?
„Wood clamped so hard that it exploded! Watch out for this failure!“ with a bomb plume edited onto the test apparatus …
I for one, certainly did not watch this video, and if you're reading this, you probably are imagining this, since this is not actually a comment.
And I didn't find it interesting either!
Thanks for the content.
Keep up the good work.
בס'ד
I wonder how the cork rubber that Andrew Kline sell would fare.
I bend cheap bar clamps constantly but cannot afford good ones. Maybe I should be building my own clamps.
Rebuilding a failed homemade tool so it's stronger can be a lot cheaper than buying the next bigger one. In some cases, it will also be faster than going to the store. No good reasons not to jump in. Matthias made a series of vids on C clamps years ago, which I think you'll find more useful. But they could be improved by using Marius' technique of securing the screw.
I use G clamps, and drive a wooden wedge in, between the G and the edge.
Great video. Thanks
That's great data. At least you don't need much clamping force for glue ups. Better to have several slightly weaker clamps than a couple stronger clamps for more consistency across the joint.
the material isn't always straight, so sometimes you need a lot of force.
@@matthiaswandel Good point!
Pocket 83 when he made his Kururin used hot glue as grippy surface. He spread the hot glue on the surface then apply it to a soapy cold glass. The hot glue harden and it give that grip, the soap let you unmould. Don’t know if it would work for the cams…
hot glue might be just the material to use!
Great work! Polyurethane tends to be more durable than natural rubber, but it’s interesting to see how they behave differently in static friction.
It would be nice to know how the compressive force of the cams compares between the two clamps at the same lateral load. I expect that different cam profiles will give different amount of clamping between the cams at different material thickness. Increasing that normal force will increase the maximum static friction between the wood and the rubber/urethane.
marius's clamps has alot less surface area. gripping less, loosens more ?
Why test for interfacial slipping between the two rubbers during the @6:15 test? Doesn’t tell you anything conclusive about which material is best
a classic MW test strikes again
sauber.
....und die maus-videos waren wirklich genial.
I don't normally comment, but I do normally watch. I'll offset the algorithm by commenting on this video. Take that Algorithm!
Interesting point near the end of the video, how much you think adding that thick border increase the strength of that thin wood, have you measured it?
Thanks!
Mine are all just old school... C frame with 3 acme thread thumb screws. What is the advantage of the cam locks? Convenience?
quicker to apply, only one screw to tighten
In depth analysis as usual..
I watch all your videos 😮
What about a sand paper as a gripping material?