Why I Don't Want Star Trek Legacy
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- Опубліковано 10 січ 2024
- Is Star Trek Legacy worth our time?
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Not interested in a new next generation movie, but I think an Enterprise with Seven as captain could potentially explore some of the things you bring up. If it dares to be bold and not just nostalgic.
Yeah, while the TNG movies ended off in a way I would've liked a better conclusion...Picard gave us that, especially with season 3, and I don't want another film or really any of those characters anymore. That said, I do think Legacy set up the kernels of a good show, would've been nicer if Elnor was around and if they hadn't renamed the Titan as the Enterprise, and if they got a new name so they could avoid that "nostalgia bait" aspect...then again, TNG is "The Next Generation", and "Legacy" doesn't feel so far off of that, so maybe they could. I'd just hope they'd avoid going too nostalgia-heavy (like Lower Decks does, especially as it's gone on).
I wouldn't worry. Another theatrical Next Gen movie has about as much chance of happening as a Tribble spinoff.
Yeah this is how I feel!
Lower Decks is the Star Trek Legacy show.
It brings in elements and characters from all of Star Trek and even creates new stuff.
Plus, animated is cheaper.
It seems animation has also allowed it to be more creative, be more open to less conventional Trek Alien Designs (and overall, more Aliens than just human-adjacents), and more.
Completely agree. Lower Decks feeds my love of the TNG/DS9/VOY era which knowing references and explicit call-outs. It's quickly become one of my favourite shows to sit and enter that Star Trek safety zone with!
@@Shuttlebay4 And it's also a friendly starting-point for newcomers like me! Because it references the past, but not to the extent it relies on past knowledge and has a barrier of entry. It's a bonus if you do, and it's a "the world is all connected" if you don't.
One of my favorite things about DS9 was how Jake had no interest in Starfleet at all and Nog enlisted. I really liked this idea of a future without a de facto oligarchy. Jack is a fun character. He has no business being a commissioned officer on a ship ahead of everybody who went through the academy, regardless of who his parents were. I can't imagine how Jean Luc and Beverly would have reacted if the kid of some other officers randomly ended up on their ship like that.
But yeah I don't need everybody to be related. That's the sort of story that's better suited to a novel series
I love your point and 💯 agree.
I'm also *laughing in Wesley* 😂
@@GSBarlev Westley was doing some kind of Starfleet ROTC. He still went to the academy, for all the good it did him
Yup. The LAST thing I want the kids of Starfleet officers to do is go into Starfleet. Characters are MUCH more interesting when they forge their own paths, like Jake, Wesley, and Nog (Starfleet, but his parents weren't).
Obviously I agree with most of this, we're very much in line as far as what we'd like to see in future Trek shows. And, you hit on something I've never quite realized before: one reason SNW is able to be a show built around legacy characters, set on THE Enterprise, while mostly avoiding the trap of feeling like a pandering nostalgia act, is that there's very little canon established from the pre-TOS era. So, even if the showrunners did want to go Full Matalas with it and just play with the toys, there aren't nearly as many toys to play with. They pretty much have to come up with new stuff in order to write a ten episode season. Thank god.
Aren't you just a little bit curious what Porthos has been up to?
Unfortunately, even Strange New Worlds can't entirely escape nostalgia, especially since they tend to bring in legacy characters (Kirk and Scotty) rather than focusing on original ones (Hemmer). Overall, I agree that modern Trek relies on the past too much, having good ideas but going out of its way for fan service (Lower Decks especially).
@@steveng.clinard1766don't give them ideas 😂😂😂😂
@@SergioMartinez-rg6xrfunny thing about Lower Decks is that it's biggest fans I talk to (ie like the ones who post in the Discord or who created fanfics and fan art) who have been most critical of the reveal about Mariner in season 4 (keeping it vague to avoid spoilers). Were fully aware the show was sold on one premise and yeah, we love that, but when it does it own thing, it's SOOOOO much better.
The Mariner reveal worked well enough because of Tawny Newsome's acting and I respect this is clearly an idea McMahan had wanted to do for fairly obvious reasons, but there were so many other ways we probably could've gotten to that same point from the events that were hinted at in Mariner's life.
I thought SNW is very much linked to nostalgia and canons, don’t get me wrong I still broadly like the series, but with some of that it does feel like my least fave of all the new series at the moment.
There's so much set up between Picard and SNW that it's a crying shame not to pick those ideas up for a new show and run with them. Let's see some "outlaw" explorers, an independent science ship crewed by Elyrians, Soong-type androids, Maquis, diasporic Romulans and everyone else who's in the Federation but not in Starfleet! The drama writes itself. If there's an crisis, backup isn't coming.
100% agreed, everything said here is what I've been frustrated by since seeing people raving about how "good" PIC S3 was and the demand for Legacy over literally anything currently being produced. I don't want Star Trek made "for the fans," I just want Star Trek to be good and tell new stories and evolve the universe rather than spiral into some nostalgic entropy.
The Trek of the 90s never could have gotten made today because each show specifically broke off from the past and did its own thing.
Fan entitlement is a nail in the foot of creativity.
The Next Gen crew has had their send-off, Picard included. Let them be. A show with Seven and Raffi on a new ship, doing new things would be great. Side-slip to something like the SCE books could work, Bad Robot seems to favor a less formal crew structure as it is. I am beyond bored by the Section 31 idea at this point, though, so they can just stay in the All Concealing Shadows (tm).
I'm not sure Section 31 ever really made much sense in the Trek universe (it would make sense if it bled out of the Mirror Universe somehow, as it is a negative reflection of everything that Starfleet is).
Personally, I would love to see a 25th century show that continues the long form political storytelling of DS9. Not necessarily introducing a new enemy like the Dominion, but maybe more along the lines of exploring the Federation’s internal politics. There is only so much “final frontier” to explore, in any century of Trek. But yeah, I don’t want any more 24th century nostalgia. We’ve got Lower Decks for that.
Me too. DS9 is my favorite. Go Niners!
Well what should be remembered about DS9 is while it is celebrated for it's long form storytelling when you look at it a little deeper in many seasons less than half of the episodes directly contributed to the ongoing storyline.
@@claytonberg721 that’s why I say long form. I don’t want a serialized show like Picard. I would like a show that has a blend of episodic content and an overarching narrative.
@@benjaminstock5334 No one will ever greenlight 26 episode seasons with an effects heavy show like strange new worlds. The budget would be out of this world. And the fans nowadays won't stand for rewatching the same effects shots for seven seasons like we did in the 90's.
@@claytonberg721 you do have a point. The abundance of episodes per season gave the overarching narrative necessary breathing space that is missing from TV today. I would say to just do a lot of bottle episodes and split the effects budget fairly evenly between the rest of the season’s episodes, instead of blowing it all on the premiere or the finale. I still believe that less is more when it comes to Star Trek spectacle, less is more. The budget for DSC’s season 2 finale could easily have been split into 3 bottle episodes of SNW or Legacy.
I think the phrase 'limited imagination' neatly sums up Season 3 of Picard. The endless nostalgia baiting was bad enough, but the cheap deaths of characters like Ro Laren as a lazy means to raise the tension read like bad fan fiction. I'd prefer it if we just said goodbye to the TNG cast and pretend that season 3 was set in an alternate universe.
For ST:Legacy to work for _me_ , it would have to do justice to the character of Captain Seven, and explore what's distinctive and compelling about having her in the captain's chair. Much as I like Raffi, next-gen La Forge and the rest, I think Seven has to be the focus of the show. I agree that just having moar cookie-cutter Trek adventures, where Seven _happens_ to be the captain, isn't a good way forward and will just become tired quickly. At the same time, shows like Lower Decks show that, with the right approach, it's still possible to bring freshness to TNG-era Trek, so I have an appropriate amount of hope that something good might come of this.
I agree with you, Jessie. Although I really liked the nostalgia trip that was Picard season 3, I do feel like that was enough now. enough with the nostalgia, time for something new, so I'd much rather have them do a big jump in time forward like from TOS to TNG. My preference would be to go to the 26th century to see some more of that amazing Universe class Enterprise-J and learn about that war the Federation was involved in. There's so much story potential there.
The more I think about it, a clean break would feel best. A new ship, new crew. TNG, DS9, and VOY were new crews, and only one reused ship name, in that classic 90s era. Lower Decks in the modern Trek is likewise not just a sequel.
Maybe revisit a few old places and legacy characters, but hopefully for no more than half the episodes. Let Captain Seven’s Enterprise be part of the pilot, the two ships working together, and then follow the other one.
While I desperately want the prime timeline of Trek to continue, and would be thrilled if that was under Captain Seven on the Enterprise, they definitely need to drop all the baggage of having the TNG crew around constantly. I love Jean Luc, but his time is indeed over at this point.
Agreed!
Every Star Trek show is set in the prime timeline. It continues in Lower Decks, in Prodigy, in Discovery.
@@KayleighBourquin continue was the key word. Everything else is in the “past” at present (or far flung future). We want to see where the Star Trek universe continues to progress.
@@WesPerry Lower Decks and Prodigy aren't "in the past" from the point of TNG era. They're very much moving that part of the timeline forward.
@@KayleighBourquin That’s not really correct. Star Trek Picard, which most recently took place in 2401, is set 21-22 years after Nemesis (2002), which also came out about 22 years ago.
Prodigy is set nearly ten years before in 2383, and lower decks even earlier in 2381. They’re simply filling in the dead space between Nemesis and Picard/the “present”.
I agree totally. In theory a Seven/Raffi series on the Titan moving the series forward would be welcome. But Matalas has shown that he's only interested in pandering to fans' nostalgia, and that is something that is absolutely not wanted. And I've gotta say it, Jack Crusher is the Mary Sue-est of Mary Sues.
Agreed. Even though I like Seven, Raffi, Sidney La Forge, and Jack in Picard S3, I don't have much interest in seeing them in a new show that is in its premise & creative staff is baked in nostalgia. I wouldn't mind seeing them cameo in another Trek show, but I just do not want the whole production to be centered on it.
Yeah, it fees to me like Star Trek's just boldly going where we've been many times before at the moment. I'd love to see a new set of characters on a new ship/station/whatever in a new timeframe, decades after the TNG era perhaps. They can go anywhere they want, but don't want to go anywhere other than TOS or TNG eras apparently.
Hell I wanna see the next century's flagship. Really advance that world for once, so the status quo can change for real.
Imagine the possibilities. Maybe replicators are portable now. That would change everything. Maybe the federation is at peace qith the borg and are starting to integrate them in Starfleet.
How has the federation's ideals evolved? Now you'd have some real shit to explore
Exactly. Even SNW is too much nostalgia-ridden for me.
Literally the second half of Discovery, but people just complained about it.
Discovery is the show to watch if you don't want an endless nostalgic litany. They actually dared to be innovative, and I love them for it.
@@christiegreenwood2642 Well, DSC from "Unification III" onward, at least. Surprisingly great episode that rejected the show's first two nostalgia baiting seasons by having both the Vulcans and Romulans come together to tell Burnham that nobody cares who her foster brother was and allowed the show to finally evolve its own voice from there.
Id like to see brand new stories from this franchise instead of just another tng project or a sequel to the 90s shows
💯. Spot on. The only part that made _Picard_ bearable to me was that it was limited run. I enjoyed checking in with the TNG folks... *One. Last. Time.*
I _desperately_ want to see Capt. Dax aboard the Aventine. I want the Sisko family to have a happily-ever-after coda. I want *Charles Tucker III* canonically resurrected and to get _Justice for T'Pol._
But the ideal format for that is a Short Trek, a Long Trek or, at most, a miniseries.
As Tantamount tightens their belts (and potentially sells off their IP to a herb), we don't need the retreading of familiar ground stomping out the beautiful new stories before they can even sprout.
yes 💪🏻
So glad to see some big Trek fandom names agree with us on this after how much the fandom has pushed "LEGACY IS WHAT ALL THE FANS WANT! OLD STUFF PLEASE!" in the past year. It's not even a Trek specific issue, it feels like every major fandom has become more occupied than ever with nostalgia centric content.
Dr who is honestly an exception to the rule and that’s why I’m so hyped for the new season
I think there is a reason this is the nostalgia era of television. Namely, this is a really depressing era to be alive in (global fascism, life becoming more unaffordable, difficult wars, climate change, surviving the pandemic years). Nostalgia is a comfy blanket of escapism. I think it is okay to want some of that, especially when the nostalgia is for the more utopian visions of past Star Trek.
@@UlriquinhoBut to that last point, at what point is enough? How much nostalgia escapism does the franchise need to give before those fans clamoring for it are done? Was S3 of Picard or the nostalgia bait in the other newer Trek shows not enough? Especially with how in financial dire straits Paramount is and is cutting back on programming, it's possible that the number of Trek productions will go down and if they decide that the one new one they'll develop is Nostalgia Escapism The Show (after already doing that a few times)..that leaves me very scared that this IP is just gonna suffocate under that nostalgia escapism blanket.
@@Trekpanther I agree it can be a problem! But I also think SNW manages to do both: it has a lot of fresh takes on old characters, gorgeous creative retrofuristic set design (that very much breaks from TOS while nodding to it), and very fresh stories that nod to the past but also provide their own takes.
I actually think Legacy has the potential to break from nostalgia even more than SNW. First queer captain. First not entirely human captain as well. And children are not their parents. Besides seven, these are all new characters. Even Raffi is a new character created in the era of new trek. And this is set in an era that hasn’t been explored all that deeply. I feel like the nostalgia element is even more overstated here than SNW!
Having just gotten into Star Trek TNG and Voyager, it's so weird how little the timeline advances.
Feels like we're really due for a new generation and a timeskip, instead of staying in the same era all the time.
I’d really just like to see them try a fully original story
George Lucas was worried about Star Wars turning into Star Trek, but now I'm worried about Star Trek turning into Star Wars.
Very good points, Jessie! I am curious as to what sort of adventures Captain Seven Of Nine could get into though. If it goes a specific
new route with new stories and not relying on just fan-service, i'd be all in for a "Legacy" show.
Anybody else starting to feel like the Enterprise is to Star Trek as the Jedi are to Star Wars? Something that the franchise keeps coming back to because it’s iconic despite the fact that there’s plenty more to explore without tying that back into things? Just me?
It'd be interesting if someone was, like, in the same class as Beverley, or knew Seven of Nine through the borg grapevine and had chatted with her once or twice, but the connection was more akin to Dark Helmet's "brother's daughter's best friend's former room mate", where they're like when people talk about knowing celebrities or good doctors or similar.
I do agree with everything you said. Leave the legacy characters to books, comics and the like, but for the shows, do something different. One of my favorite parts from TNG The Naked Now was when Picard references Captain Kirk, but there was no recognition of him and no "we studied him at the academy". Continually going back to the same well frankly becomes boring.
Jesse - you are not wrong. I love all Star Trek that we’ve had( some more than others) but let us boldly go where we haven’t gone before!🖖🏽
I left a similar comment over on TrekCulture, but I had been on board with Legacy idea early on in the conversation, before the final 2 episodes of Picard Season 3 had aired, but what killed it for me was them renaming of the ship. I admit I can't really articulate why the Titan-A was a yes for me but Enterprise-G isn't given the cast and stories would presumably be the same, but that's how I feel.
I would love watching a Captain Seven and the new actor playing Jack Crusher and any guest episodes of past characters of 90s.early 2000 Trek. Enterprise G would still have a new young crew who could be established in their characters which could keep it new. Essentially it is a mix of new and old characters guest starring episodically. It still works for me, just like the movies followed Next Gen or TOS era.
In all honesty, after season 2 of Picard, I really want Seven to be captain of the USS Stargazer, a new ship for a new show. Although my wish never came true, I was excited of the thought that she'll become the captain of the USS Titan-A, and I've got to be honest I still have mixed feelings of renaming that ship into Enterprise-G. But, I'm still hoping that they'll bring something new in Legacy.
I do think we need a Star Trek story in live action with characters that are not related to any of the legacy characters from TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY or ENT. I've mostly loved the new crop of shows, but they're all tethered in some way to those shows. The world of Trek is massive. Let us see the rest of it.
As much as I'd love to see Legacy and this crew's adventures... Yeah, we've already got 2 shows serving that purpose of having a crew flying around space on adventures and fighting danger: SNW which is literally adventures of the Enterprise itself, and Lower Decks. Maybe wait until one of those shows ends. It's why I'm intrigued by Starfleet Academy - different setting (it seems they'll be on planet more often than not I imagine?) and includes a Picard S3 writer and Tawny Newsome as a writer. I'm listening!
As much as I love the TNG era, I like how Picard season 3 wrapped things up for them. I hope to enjoy Legacy but it would be good to see something different. Outside of DS9 and the animated shows, trek has been rather samey (although I'd give enterprise an exception as that was telling an interesting story cut woefully short!) so it would be nice to see a series set in the academy or from the point of view of the Vulcans or something.
Yes I totally agree. The franchise really needs to stop bathing in nostalgia bait, otherwise it's gonna be the same problem Star Wars has been having where any new characters, new threats, and new worlds are all gonna be clouded & overshadowed by all the legacy material. Even in the Trek shows I really like be it Lower Decks and SNW, I can tell when the narrative makes a big deal & shows reverence when a legacy character(s) show up to the detriment of the other characters, even though they handle those relatively better than Picard did. Even some new characters feel like they have to tie themselves to legacy characters, that they can't be their own persons with their own histories and motivations...no they have to be the son of X character or have been the lover of Y character, or be mentored in the show by Z character from older Trek shows. That honestly fucking sucks and is one of the big reasons I have no interest in Star Wars stuff anymore; I don't want Trek to go down that same pit of member berry slosh.
I wish the franchise would do a big clean slate like TNG did compared to TOS. Sure it had McCoy in a brief cameo, but outside of that it didn't tie itself so hard to the TOS legacy characters and places that some of these newer shows do now. Even these new eras that the folks supporting Legacy want to see....there's nothing in that idea that it couldn't be done with a brand new crew, brand new ship that's not an Enterprise G with Legacy captain with characters tied to legacy characters.
Doing a story focused on the past seems like the wrong direction imo. Compare it with dr who, which seems to be reinventing itself and going on new directions and stories.
I totally agree. I love Picard season 3. It was awesome compared to previous seasons, but they did drop the ball with how the changelings were handled. I like nostalgia too, but too much of anything can kill you. I think Enterprise was better at handling both Nostalgia and storytelling. I think it was because for Jonathan Archer and his crew everything was new for them.
A series focused on the Fenris Rangers would be sick. Especially if they had to come into conflict with ex-Ranger Captain Seven.
I think it’s worth considering the meaning of that word “Legacy”, as in the impact our actions have after the fact; the way that our memory lives on. The thing about legacy, is that something has to have finished, and if they continue rehashing these specific characters, it would only get in the way of them having a proper legacy. Is that irony?
But yes, I think what you say makes sense. I think any franchise like Star Trek which span multiple generations in a vast cosmo needs to learn to let specific characters go if it doesn’t want its universe to feel small.
the best part of P:S3 was Captain Shaw! the wholy original new dude. lets have some faith in creativity and actors.
I was a Trekkie when being a Trekkie meant watching the same 78 episodes of TOS over and over and over in reruns in the 70s, and I think you are 100% correct. The best thing Roddenberry & Co. did when they created TNG was to make it as different as possible from TOS. They specifically avoided including legacy TOS characters or aliens (except the Klingons, and even they were changed from enemies to allies). It jump-started the franchise, opened a whole new dimension from the by-now familiar TOS characters and settings. I can state this confidently, because I saw it happen in real time as an adult. I think the decision to make something completely new is what saved Star Trek, and is the reason the franchise is still growing nearly 60 years after TOS first appeared. I think that you're right, that the way to ensure that the franchise continues to be a vibrant part of popular culture is to continue creating new characters exploring new areas of the Star Trek universe, they way (as you point out) Prodigy does.
I think there’s just plot threads left dangling from those 90s shows that fans and writers have been thinking about for years, and a series dedicated to all that would prevent those kind of followups from interrupting other shows.
Also, the 25th century era desperately needs exploration and Legacy is as good if a vessel to do that as any imo. There’s a lot of new ideas to be made from that status quo
That doesn't mean it has to be on a Starfleet ship, though. There are so many ways to tie those threads up without retreading old ground in terms of format.
The show I want to see from Star Trek is the adventures of Captain Seven of Nine with Jack Crusher finally doing justice to the character arc Wesley was clearly supposed to have in TNG
Picard Season 3 was a good send off as any for the TNG crew, a movie would be highly uneeded. I would like to see a L show set in that era of Trek if focuses on Seven, Jack and that crew(Give me a cardassian crew member!). As be nice to make use of characters and not wait 20 years to then include them. But if have two series filling the same role it will quickly lead to burn-out for Trek and no one wants that. Also can we set a rule in Trek to keep the Borg dead?. Just soo tired of them, S2 of Picard was the cloeset to a fresh take for them in years.... And that got tossed to the side.
Spoilers for Picard season 3
I would have been more on-board with a 'Legacy' series if the Titan stayed the Titan. I loved the premise of being on a 'not-so-important' starfleet vessel. Perhaps one that was a little backwards in terms of technological support. Naming it the G just felt... Like an eager fan-fiction move. But, that was my opinion of the whole last episode of season 3 complete with 'Return of the Jedi' styled 'fly into the big opening' part.
In the end, I am still enthralled with the first four episodes of season 3. The rest of it feels a little like... whip cream. Not much substance there.
Yeah, I thought the first five episodes were okay. But once they destroyed the beautiful death that Data got in season one, destroyed the sentiment of Jurati's diplomacy with the Confederation Borg, had Troi roast Nepenthe, and made Data and Crusher pro-genocide (Data saying "I hate them" was basically Kirk saying "Let them die," but instead of Crusher pulling him back, she doubled down on those remarks), and gave no thought to Laris or Elnor in opening up threads they had no intention of closing onscreen, season three quickly became my least favorite season in Trek history, which hurts me to say, because usually such declarations betray a hyperbolic recency bias.
I feel like we're getting infected with the Skywalker Virus, where the only ship that matters is the Enterprise and the only characters that count are the existing ones and their kids/spouses/ex-SO's, etc.
Even the novels over the years have advanced the storyline of Trek, along with introducing new characters so it's not the same prequel/postquel junk all the time.
Yeah. Nepotism seems like the most anti-Trek sentiment possible.
There's so much they can explore and do more with between the 26th and 31st centuries. Gives us more of the temporal cold war. The Sphere-builders invasion with the battle of Procyon V. Even having a series based around a timeship from the 29th century thats similar to the USS Relativity would be fun.
I thought we were fetting a new series, with 7 as Captain, Ravi as #1, and Jack Crusher as a main character, I thought that spinning into its own series was obvious, and I for one NEED it, and I'm only 28. 7 of 9 is a badass, and she deserves a run as Captain, especially if you know her full story.
You nailed exactly why I´ve also been hesitant about a Legacy show. Especially the name! I overall liked season 3 of Picard but I don´t have a need for more of the TNG characters and we certainly don´t need another show set on a ship named Enterprise, we already have Enterprise. A franchise risks stagnation if it has two live action shows set on the "same" ship. Unlike many others I rolled my eyes and sighed at the last scene of Picard where Jack meets Q. It was disappointing and unimaginative. I suppose a show with Seven & co could be interesting but it would have to a different twist to it.
I agree! Oh, you want a Star Trek Legacy series exploring more of that time period? Lower Decks. You want a live action (maybe more drama-oriented) Lower Decks. Which, honestly, I'd love to see. Obviously it wouldn't be the same characters since I think LD is like 20 years prior to the Picard series (RIP I guess to any LDers who stayed around in Starfleet long enough to get wiped out by the kiddos in the Picard season 3 finale) But something similar to that where we have almost entirely new characters and a new focus (following the lower ranking crew members of a less prestigious class ship) that can change things up from what we've already seen multiple times with flagship Enterprise's bridge crew. And it could be something different from what we're getting with SNW in that the plot timeline is (I think) mostly open until we hit S3 Disco so they'd no longer be beholden to "things have to happen X way because that's what's in the original series."
I'm happy for there to be media made that explores legacy characters, however the main thread needs to keep moving forward and you need new characters and scenarios to do that. In no particular order, here's my wish list of things that Star Trek could focus on:
- Jake Sisko as an adult. Yes he's a legacy character, but he's a journalist, and you could do episodic stories really easily. With him you could easily explore concepts related to repercussions of war, the Ferengi, the Cardassians, the Bajorans, the gamma quadrant, whatever the heck is going on with his father, how trade works in the Federation (through his step-mother, and you could probably get some piracy storylines out of that as well), as well as what it's like to not be in Starfleet in the Federation. In TNG we got a lot of glimpses of the Federation being VERY colonial, but never really explore that in any depth. Jake Sisko would be the perfect vector for getting into those stories and their inherent conflict in a way that is very Trek.
- A show from the perspective of an alien, or group of aliens. In every show, the most interesting character was also the 'outsider' (Spock, Data, Odo, Seven of Nine, Saru). Having the main cast all be non-human would be a great way to really interrogate what the Federation means. If you want to tie it back to something already established, think of the all Vulcan Federation crew that Benjamin Sisko had a rivalry with. Stick a single human on that all Vulcan crew and I guarantee that would be a fascinating and fun show. Any other species would also work, but Vulcans have easy makeup that actors don't complain about (and they have a very fleshed out culture to draw from).
- A show set in a far-flung Federation colony, that maybe doesn't get quite the support it needs from Starfleet. It's another way to explore colonialism, but also taps into the fascination many of us have with just trying to survive with limited resources. It was kind of done with the Lost in Space reboot, but I think a flaw of that show is they always had some previously unmentioned tool they could use. Lay out the rules and resources early and only find ways around problems with what is available.
- Go hard with the metaphysics and do a Wesley Crusher show. I know what you're saying but hear me out. The thing that really bugged people about Wesley in TNG is that he is overly-competent for his age. This could be counter-balanced by setting him up with being able to travel in time and space and jumping universes, but making it so that he has very little control over it, that he is actually kind of bad at it and overwhelmed, setting up paradoxes he has to fix and consequences he cannot see, and force him to rely on his humanity to solve problems, not his cleverness. I read somewhere that he actually becomes Emperor in the Mirror Universe (probably in one of the books) and is a really interesting premise to explore right there. Like how does that happen, and how does he feel about it? Anyway, there's a lot of scope here to flesh out the overall timeline of Star Trek (or erase it), as well as do a deep dive into the meaning of humanity. There's a risk this concept could head into Dr Who type territory and I'm not sure Wil Wheaton would want to do it, but it would be a bold move.
- A show where people make stuff. A really underrated sub-genre is people making things (For All Mankind is probably the most notable recent example). I would love to see how a starship is made from design to launch, and it would be cool to follow the various people involved as they do their jobs (maybe throw in a sabotage plot somewhere). Like it could be a warship, and there's a lot of arguing over whether that's ethical. Or a science ship and different groups want it specialised for different tasks. Throw in a Saru-like character (who is new to this level of technology, so also could be person out of time) to provide an audience POV that really marvels at just how cool a starship is. It might sound underwhelming but it would be a relief from all the recent plots where Earth or the Galaxy is at stake. Like, calm down! Some of us like to not be stressed out when we watch a show.
- Not really a show per se, but one theme I really want explored is the post-scarcity socialism of Star Trek. In reality we are heading towards an inflection point where we "might" have AGI and a huge surge in technology at the same time as huge job losses. We also seem to be teetering on the brink of large scale wars (maybe not nuclear, but potentially still awful), and entering into runaway climate change. Star Trek has already explored a lot how people can overcome large scale conflict (not just in the fictional history of Earth, but in the story lines of particular TNG and DS9), but digging into the theories around post-scarcity could give people ideas and optimism about the future (and there has been a lot of thought lately about how economies could work in the future without money or more specifically late-stage capitalism).
I read an article somewhere proposing that a one shot movie with those characters would be better than an entire series and i agree with that at least!
However, I sometimes despair with how entrenched we are with nostalgia these days
I fully agree about the movie. We had a wonderful ending with All Good Things, spoiled by the movies. Now we've had perhaps an even stronger ending for the characters (I was not a big fan of the last two episodes of Picard overall, but for the characters it was a phenomenal ending), and now there's the risk of spoiling that with another movie? It would have to be a hell of a script, with a hell of an ending.
I do have a little more faith in Legacy... I honestly think it will end up doing more interesting and subversive things than you give it credit for; using the old as a stepping stone for exploring great ideas. I hope that Matalas brings in a diverse set of voices so that Trek can really explore the issues of today like it did in the 90's, like it did in the 60's. I want Legacy to take some things that were interesting in the 90s show and expand upon them in fascinating ways: think of the xBs, or how Klingons were treated in TNG/DS9 compared to TOS. I also want it to bring entirely new things to the table: new life and new civilizations. I genuinely think Legacy is positioned to do that in a way no other Star Trek show could, because it's the Enterprise, and the crew is already a blending of new and old.
I need Star Trek to go forward again. There is so much nostalgia bait, and yes, there are elements of that in Legacy but there are so many nostalgic fan baity stuff like Star Trek Strange New Worlds (which is great) but I want Star Trek to look towards an optimistic future with more current storytelling about current social and political issues, in the richer sandbox of DS9, TNG, and Voyager. Love you, Jessie, and I think you're partially right, Terry Matalas should help create Legacy but HE SHOULD NOT SHOWRUN Legacy. He reminds me of the American version of Steven Moffat, good writer, good creator (as in can create an awesome concept), but not a great showrunner.
On the contrary, Moffat was a brilliant showrunner.
I SO AGREE about Anges and the consensual borg collective! I was disappointed that it wasn't more of a theme in season 3. Like, how were the old borg so involved in season 3 of Picard and the new collective didn't appear AT ALL? And considering the new collective might have been let into the federation at the end of season 2, this feels like such a lost opportunity. I'd totally watch that series!! Especially exploring what the relationship between Agnes and the Borg queen has become. Or how about Soji and the android society we met? What about a series on like, a Federation embassy on Vulcan or some other non human federation planet ? Or I'd love a very character focused, introspective Data movie that actively explores his new integration in counseling sessions with Troi or some other counselor. Really explore android psychology and all the challenges therein. Legacy characters, yes, but a totally new format, slower pace, and different focus (AND low budget!)
Anyway, yes I am with you on the side of innovation. My favorite moments in Picard WERE those moments of innovation! And that's what I hope we get to see more of.
Also... Can they maybe address the whole changeling research thing? Like... Are we just gonna be like Oopsy well good thing we rebuilt and not root out that corruption?
I am torn. I agree with some of these criticisms, and part of it is why I had a mixed feeling about the ending of Picard: changing the Titan to the Enterprise was especially bad, Jack's weird role makes no sense to me, and there's a part of me that would've preferred Shaw as captain, Seven remaining commander, and...umm...oh no, I forgot her name as security chief or something. Geordi's daughters seemed like good foils for Jack, and adding Elnor would've pretty perfectly rounded out the cast (unless they wanted to include a more abnormal alien, as new Treks like to do). That said, I'd want the show to avoid much nostalgia, and just try to explore things we haven't seen - as suggested, the Jurati Borg left an interesting thread that would be great for Seven to explore, but other things could be done. Even if Terry Matalas is showrunner, I'd like to see a variety of people stepping in to write, maybe give us something different. Basically, Legacy is an idea that could work, but it's a needle to thread.
That said, I don't want a Picard/TNG movie. While Nemesis was a poor ending (especially after the better ending of "All Good Things"), Picard season 3 was about the best I could expect. Troi and Crusher were still given short shrift, but they usually were, and Beverly got...more than she usually would.
Tbo I'd rather have a couple of mini series set on the enterprise B and C. I felt the renaming of the Titan really undermined the Shaw redemption ark that series was amazing but that ending was unnecessary. In fact now I'm rambling I've changed my mind I want the legacy series to be set on the USS Shaw with captain Mariner
In my timeline also, Bashir and Kira hooked up and Kirayoshi is actually theirs, which makes a whole lot more sense. :) Kirayoshi is an officer on the Chimera A. He's a Bashir action figure. :)
I remember when Picard S1 was happening that we were all so excited for the idea of a Seven, Fenris Ranger show that explored a new corner of the universe and showed new facets of Seven's character, such a shame subsequent seasons scrapped that idea in favour of the familiar...IF Legacy is going to happen, it needs to do what the best TOS movies did: push the characters forward narratively rather than having them resume the same roles they did during TNG (which is the mistake Picard made).
I think that, if we want to do something new but still have a familiar-ish playground to play with, we should be setting something in the lost era of Trek between the 2290s and the 2360s. There's tons of things to mine there, like the Tomed Incident as just one example among many, but also as fodder to see some things that were otherwise went by the wayside, like what the first war with the Cardassians was like, or the various conflicts that get mentioned as having occurred but were never seen.
Or, alternatively, and I would prefer this, something completely different but still exploring some ramifications in that era. You mentioned a West Wing type show, and I think that would be absolutely fascinating. A civilian type show or perhaps one about colonizing on the frontier.
There's also the Romulan war from back in the Enterprise era that was never elaborated on, might be fun miniseries fodder.
With all of that said as well, I'd rather just see something entirely new. I don't want to keep playing around with the same toys over and over. I'm tired of that, and tired of the type of Trek fan that is so adamant about not changing things that they literally label all of Trek after Discovery as an entire universe to its own (I'm looking at you, Ex-Astris-Scientia. I used to respect you so much, and your inability to let go of the past is saddening to me.)
Like, I grew up on TNG, I love DS9, I love that era, but I can let go of it. If I want to revisit it, the shows that were made then still exist. Let's move on, do something different, be progressive, like Trek is meant to be.
It made me so happy to see this thumbnail because I'm just happy someone else feels this way, as I have since the idea was first floated. I have almost no interest in either a Picard movie (we've had a grand finale with the TNG cast what? Three times now?) and Legacy... I especially don't have any interest sine the only story that I've heard Terry Matalas mention for the show is a queer forbidden love between Seven and Raffi (with the specific episode he pitched for them BASICALLY being DS9's "Change of Heart")
I think if we MUST revisit this era of Star Trek, I'd much rather do an anthology show, where each week we could look in on another aspect of Trek. That way it wouldn't just be the Enterprise G. We could go to Deep Space Nine. We could go to Discovery. Then, you wouldn't even ALWAYS have to explore previously established characters. It would be the easiest way to backdoor pilot new concepts that we haven't seen before.
But I'm also aware I'm a hypocrite, because I will die on the hill of "We need Kelvin 4".
Something new & cool cool with Trek, a la Andor (best TV show ever, ultra high bar) would be so super interesting… Would love some crazy new stuff, rather than rehashed stuff.
I just want more queer rep in Star Trek. Since Discovery was canceled and if Legacy has queer characters, I’ll be happy about that
Edit: I’d much rather have queer rep in A MAQUIS SHOW. Or a show about the Bajoran resistance. Make an Inglorious Basterds in space. Antifascist Trek would be amazing
Discovery wasn’t canceled
Bring back Eddington!
We’ve been mired in nostalgia mode / prequel shows since 2001 at this point, only occasionally having a show that pushes the timeline forward a little bit. What I wouldn’t give for a “Next Next Generation” series set in the 25th century with a new crew on a new 5 year mission.
What I’d like to see is “Star Trek: Legacy” be an anthology show, like “Fargo”. Each season could tell a new story about a different crew in a different era. Exploring time periods we’ve only glimpsed. How about a season on the Enterprise-C? How about the Enterprise-B? How about a new story set during the Motion Picture era? Or between the original series and the Motion Picture? And there’s the Temporal Cold War! We only ever saw that when it intersected with “Enterprise”. How about a whole season set in the Mirror Universe? Or the Kelvin timeline!
I would love to see a Star Trek series where a civilian group tries to colonize a planet. We can see why the federation always seems to be in such a massive land grab, flesh out the role of that civilian starships play in the universe, maybe see how they work in a post-scarcity economy, etc.
The novels did a 6-part book series of this, set during the time of TMP, and it was pretty interesting. You've got an example of what you're asking for working right there.
I'm only interested in nostalgia-bait New Trek if it's animated. Reboot the old TOS cartoon She-Ra style. If I wanted to watch boring old live-action nostalgia I would just rewatch the old shows... which I have been doing anyway!
Agree with why does it have to be the Enterprise again. This is why I didn't like the rebranding of the Titan to the Enterprise in Picard S3
Star Trek LEGACY: To boldly go where we have gone before.
Very good points, Jessie. I'm not interested in seeing old characters just to see old characters. I was interested in Enterprise and looking forward to seeing how the Federation was built before it got cancelled.
My feelings largely reflect yours, Jessie. I don't begrudge fans wanting the things that they want and if they get those things then I am sincerely happy for them even if I feel like the franchise isn't going the way I'd like. I was and am almost completely uninterested in the idea of not just Star Trek Legacy, but also Captain Seven. I'll get to her in a moment, but beyond the specific idea of the show's concept, I have to say that while I'm with you in admiring Picard for trying new things I ultimately was left really loathing the state of the Galaxy that show established. Starfleet and The Federation don't appear very optimistic, hopeful, or interesting anymore. They basically took the Federation and made it more like a future version of 20th century Earth and while I don't think "Gene's Vision (tm)" is this mythical, sacred thing which must be adhered to before any other considerations, I do think that as we abandon his hopeful and optimistic version of the future of humanity, we also abandon a core aspect of what makes this franchise special and gave it its unique identity to begin with. Yes, Starfleet and the Federation have often been portrayed as far from perfect, but Picard took it to some shockingly new extremes and on a scale that no series or movie ever has before. Section 31 is perhaps the closest, but even that was a cordoned-off element of the Federation and was still in service of the ideals of the Federation, just much more loose about which ends can justify which means. A close second is the ban on genetic modification, but at its worst, that ban was always painted as more of a failure of regulation and not a societal prejudice where genetically modified people were hated, feared, and shunned by average citizens. Even Bashir could have lived a happy life as a Federation citizen if it weren't for lying to get into Starfleet and I never got the impression that any Federation citizens would have ostracized him for his status despite the laws against him being in Starfleet being unjustly prejudicial. The way that Seven was treated in Picard made me truly disgusted with the Federation and Starfleet for the first time in the franchise's history.
Speaking of Seven, while I was happy to see her (and happy she was FINALLY not needlessly sexualized in her presentation), they did very little to establish her current character before thrusting her into Starfleet in a command status. Not since Kirk in Trek 2009 have we seen a character up-jumped in rank so insanely and non-sensically and I'd argue that this was an even worse offense. For one, she was NEVER a member of Starfleet and never even attended the academy. For another, she'd spent decades apparently as a part of a group that seemed akin to The Maquis, though admittedly we never get any clear explanation of what the Fenris Rangers are beyond vigilantes of some sort. What we do seem to know however, is that the group is made up of people who apparently think that the Federation and Starfleet particularly have failed in their missions. Pretty much the only thing we DO know about Seven is that upon reaching the Alpha Quadrant with Voyager, her life has apparently been one of humiliation, pain, and trauma at the hands of Starfleet. How on EARTH is that the person we are now choosing as a series lead and captain of the Federation's FLAGSHIP vessel where diplomacy is a primary function?! It's beyond obvious that the only reason she was chosen for the Enterprise G was because she had the greatest nostalgia factor of any character by the end of Picard. I can think of much better legacy Trek characters who would be FAR better suited as Captain of the Enterprise G. Harry Kim might actually be my first choice as seeing him in command would make sense for his character and would right a serious wrong that was done to that character and actor. Furthermore, I'd LOVE to see him once he's come fully into his own instead of constantly green around the gills.
That all said, I've been so uninterested in Star Trek Legacy that until now, I'd never heard the idea that it would be a means to explore story-threads and characters left unaddressed since Voyager and DS9's finales. I wouldn't mind seeing follow ups to those, especially DS9, but I don't get how this show would be the best vehicle for doing so. The Enterprise has always been exploring at the fringes of the Federation as it's primary purpose so to have revisiting DS9 and Voyager characters and stories would feel like if TNG had multiple episodes per season like Relics or Unification, which were only special because they were rare. For my money, if they really want to explore past Trek characters and stories, they should make Star Trek Legacy an anthology series where they jump from setting to setting, following entirely different characters. For a few epsiodes we could follow Jake Sisko and his family, seeing where they are after decades away from Benjamin (considering where Jake went as a character in The Visitor, that could get VERY interesting). For others, we could check in on The Doctor and see him become a leading figure in reforming the civil rights of non-biological people, or Admiral Archer returning to a starship for the first time in 20 years, or any other number of ideas. Hell, why limit it to just pre-existing characters and settings?
Completely agree with you on season 3 of Picard. Like season 1 it had a lot of great ideas but nothing really planned out. I'm not one for constant nostalgia porn as the basis for a story.
I want one episode, just a one shot, where Admiral Janeway from the Endgame timeline comes back as a Borg and somehow saves the galaxy one more time.
I want an episode all about Krinn - how did he end up where is is now? What IS his logic for being a crime boss? This would bring up some good ethical philosophy vs logic etc.
I can take or leave the Enterprise, but I think I'd love a series with Seven in the lead that boldly explores new things.
For nostalgic references, I really think Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks already do a fantastic job balancing that with storytelling focused on their own characters. We certainly don't need an entire story focused on the past, as you say.
Completely agree!! I would be interested in seeing a show that focuses on like 3 groups. Like game of thrones did/does. 1 group of andorrians, one group of ferengi, and one group of a new species. And humans take a secondary role.
One thing I see especially is people saying that want a ST: Legacy show in place of the Starfleet Academy one? And it’s like… Starfleet Academy has such a cool place to tell us more about what it’s like to live planetside in ST, something we’ve heard about, but never actually seen. It’s a lot less defined than starship life.
I also *deeply* want a Vulcan science vessel show for my own selfish enjoyment of the Vulcans.
The Shakespeare references don't always land well when they're not in the original Klingon.
Honestly, I want two things out of this: Captain Seven and Jack finally meeting Wesley. You can give me none of the TNG crew/stuff, maybe an appearance of Gates MaFadden when Wesley returns and I'd probably also would really like seeing a bit more of Geordi and Data because those two are just precious in their current form. Otherwise I'd honestly like this show to go wild on the whole "final frontier" thing, maybe Wesley uses his traveller powers in a more controlled way to take the ship waaaay further than any Starfleet ship has gone before. But no Universe-threatening thing this time, I just want it to be exploration stuff.
Actually, what I wanted for two decades now was to see what happens after DS9 and Voyager. I think that prequels are always a bad idea. Yes Picard is set in that time period but it doesn't give us much in terms of politics and world building.
Well season 1 of Picard did a lot of set up of the Romulan diaspora, the synths, and the Borg refugees, and pitting Picard against Starfleet was brilliance because it shows that Starfleet itself really shifted in character. So it really did add a lot of interesting things to the politics and worldbuilding...unfortunately it just didn't capitalise much on that.
Any who with Captain 7 (and there absolutely should be one) needs to bring back Robert Picardo so we can explore the Doctor dealing with time and how he handles outliving his friends. Also an entire episode of Sisko just serving Gumbo in his restaurant.
I'm still mad that we never got a show based on the Enterprise F. I loooooove that starship design.
The issue is the creative leader. Picard had a good because the leadership deferred the responsibility to a underlying. And we got a good season. Similarly the Gor in days. There’s a good chance the worst person will be put in charge
Right. Exactly. Thank you for articulating the feeling I was having about a Legacy show being pushed hard, especially when Picard season 3 ended things perfectly. There is so, so many other parts of the Star Trek universe to explore! What about, for example, the Orion society? How about, say, a guild of civilian interstellar archaeologists and explorers? ... Oh, wait. That's already happening... 😉
I love Seven of Nine na da show with her in the Centre ould be great and a nostalgia-place for those who can´t move on and want "real trek" meaning their old trek from the 90s and 2000s arent the best nor the worst idea - but they wont move us anywhere - just like you said. It´s like visitiung places "no man has gone before" over and over again
Make room for more new stories - for new ways to explore this franchise
So in conclusion I share your views a lot
We would all love to see it! Agreed - like TNG, it needs its own legs first. Re: Picard- Loved the execution of the 3rd season vs Concept compared to 1st and 2nd. Once Legacy IS greenlit.. lol. It could go anywhere from there, Jess... including a bit more of a Prodigy vibe. C'mon-
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combination!
It's _possible_ that they'll subvert the expectations set by the "Legacy" title, but I don't know if I trust Paramount to even _think_ of that.
hey jessie..great video..but this is the latest i heard..the legacy show will consist of seven, raffi (my favorite), and jack..it will also have the laforge girls and titan crew, but no next gen characters (except maybe as an occassional guest star)..NOW... the picard movie is also green lit and will be a tv movie like section 31..it will feature picard and the titan crew, but not next gen..and..it is meant to be an off-ramp for the legacy series..hope this helps..would love to hear your thoughts on this..peace and good health always..rocky
I agree that I want something new. I would love a series that isn't centered on Starfleet. I want to see what society is like when capitalism is far in the past.
I would agree with you if there were only one Trek show being produced. But with multiple shows coming to us each year, I wouldn’t mind if *one* of them were more “nostalgic”. Hey, I loved the original shows and characters, and it’s nice to see the actors getting work. Plus, I always get the vibe that the network suits are more likely to take chances if they know that they have a “sure thing” in reserve. (I mean, if we have to have an Obi-Wan in order to have an Andor, then that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make!)
The Michelle Yeoh movie should have taken place in the mirror universe in the 25 century, with Smiley, bashir, Ezri, Leta, along with new characters.
I saw something on twitter about an Andor like show set somewhere around 10 years before the events of the first kelvin movie being planned or something,
And I kinda feel like an "Andor like show" would work better for a show set during the pre-warp period of earth, and leads up to humanity sorta reaching the state it is during the federation, like how it became a moneyless economy, etc. Ideally it also wouldn't include Zefram Cochrane in a greater role.
But either way, I think firstly, it's more important that the current batch of trek shows be allowed to end first before we get a bunch of new shows, that way oversaturation can be avoided, or at least lowered.
Legacy should be an anthology show each season new cast new ship different era
I want Star Trek Legacy. It will have new characters as well as old favorites.
You had discovery and all the other shows. Nothing wrong with something to appeal to legacy fans. Plus we finally have a show that's not a prequel
I'd quite like to have a show that still involved Starfleet, but looks at the shadier side of the Federation. Star Trek: Intelligence.
I keep having this idea of these Starfleet operatives who go around in a ship that looks like a junky old freighter, but which has some secret abilities (e.g.: faster than it looks, hidden gun emplacements, etc.) These guys investigate things on the edges of the Federation, where the law is less present (being far out from the core worlds) and perhaps even a bit beyond the borders. They go undercover, find potential threats, and stop them.
Have a show based on a star trek bar or Cafe. Not on a starship, not on a ds9 frontier style mega important location, just a bar or café in a normal area and it's just people doing what they want. Some of the characters have interesting lives they've lived and are grizzled veterans of atar fleet, some are young adults just starting their lives, some are in between. Have a few regular customers and a few that are one-offs.
I've been reading Legends and Lattes recently and that book is so damn good. We don't literally need that but a good low stakes restaurant or café or library style story could make a fun show. At least for a season or two and a shorter show is not a bad show. It could absolutely work as a lower budget show too since it doesn't need big dramatic universe changing battles.
Tbh if there's anything I would actually like to see with tng era characters now, it would be Bashir and Section 31. I think there's still a lot to say with that (also you could actually show Bashir and Garak together which I NEED to happen).
Picard felt like they kept trying to do a finale till they got to season 3: and season 3 was what I wanted Picard to always be.
The idea of another movie doesn’t sit right with me.
"These are the voyages of the USS Enterprise-G. It's continuing mission: To seek out legacy characters and reassure nostalgic civilizations. To boldly go where this franchise has already gone before!"
What about Star Trek Department of Temporal Investigations? It would be the perfect way to do cameos without having to solely focus on those legacy characters. And I don't just say this because they might have word of what happened to The Emmisary in the Celestial Temple.
I would really like to see more of 7, Jack and the crew of the Enterprise-G. At the same time, I agree Star Trek does need to keep doing new things. Maybe they could finally go forward with an anthology series, which could include the Enterprise-G in some episodes and explore new and returning characters, and do stories about non starfleet characters as well.
I have the first season of Lower Decks in my collection of movies & other DVDs or Blu-rays for either a Rainy day or when I finally get my future apartment so I Binge watch with my next Fur baby that would be a small dog like a Chihuahua or other small dog breed or mix breed Jessie. 😉🐕
The shape of the ENT-G just throws me off. It just doesn't look like the star of a show.