PEX vs. Copper Plumbing
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- Опубліковано 2 лис 2017
- Copper, CPVC, and PEX - Benefits and Disadvantages on todays Build Show!
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I asked myself why I watched this video all the way through to the end when I have zero interest in plumbing . The answer was simple. This guy is a natural teacher. He knows the subject inside out and has that rare ability to communicate that knowledge to an audience in a clear and non patronising way.
That's true, and you're quite astute to have made such an accurate assessment of his talents.
Don't buy this bull
So how long have yall been married
Too bad most men don’t realize that if you are energized and confidently talk around women the same way this lad talks about plumbing..it would be an easy score. There’s nothing worse then having a dumb ass journeyman who thinks he’s a god and acts all superior when all he has going for him is being an educated laborer but bores you to death with his monotone voice and could put any apprentice to sleep with his explanations or instructions. I tell apprentices,.its not the work or job that sucks..it’s the journeymen. It always seems like the best journeymen want to teach and pass on their trade secrets and the worst ones just complain how much their life sucks and take it out on anyone that will be forced to listen.
Agreed... Great Presentation.
One thing Matt should have mentioned was the difference between the oxygen barrier and non oxygen barrier PEX. The non-oxygen barrier PEX is what you use for fresh water and the oxygen barrier PEX is what is required for closed loop hydronic heating systems. The O2 barrier is necessary in hydronic systems which contain ferrous metals such as non stainless steel circulators or cast iron or steel boilers. Standard non O2 barrier pex will absorb oxygen from the ambient air and within a short time rust out those components.
I am amazed how many people are concerned about a plastic taste with PEX. PEX is cross linked High Density Polyethylene (HDPE #2 recyclable plastic) It is commonly used in the food industry from 1 gallon plastic jugs containing spring water and milk to 55 gallon drums containing everything from juice concentrates to vinegar. As far as resiliency to chemicals and petroleum based solvents, ever look to see what your portable plastic gasoline, Kerosene, and diesel fuel containers are made out of? HDPE has been around a long time and has never leached BPA. As far as PVC and CPVC, it leaches all kinds of nasty chemicals when heated so I would personally never use it for drinking water. Copper is the best unless your water is acidic, in that case the water etches the copper pipe and you are consuming copper in your drinking water. In high doses can cause copper poisoning. Most pipe for water wells or water lines buried underground between buildings on farms has been black poly pipe since at least the 1960's. The black poly pipe contains "carbon black" which makes the pipe black and prevents damage from UV. It has an estimated lifespan of 50 to 100 years exposed to sunlight. Understand what the pipe is and the history of HDPE in our water systems before you make out PEX to be a bad plumbing alternative. Like Matt Risinger I prefer the "pro pex" PEX A product by Uponor and have been using it since the mid 90's when it was sold as Uponor/Wirsbo.
On a side note HDPE is also used now in replacement hips and knees as the wearing surface since HDPE particles in the body are not as dangerous as teflon and other materials used in the past.
Good information. Thanx
Dynamic Energy Solutions nice to see a comment from someone who has some facts and not just speculation. Here in the UK PEX is pretty commonly used, you get those who prefer copper but to my mind pex has more advantages, some that weren’t mentioned here, less heat loss etc. The US fittings are very different, it’s mainly push fit on pex in the UK, not tools needed, even quicker instal.
Pex-AL-Pex is most common for drinking water in Slovenia and I think most central Europe, Germany etc. (Pex with aluminum vapor barrier)
Neither, the aluminum layer is in the middle, pressed between two layers of PEX.
Shadow light
In the USA you can get pex with a polymer o2 barrier, so there is no aluminum. The aluminum center layer was common here 25 or 30 years ago.
The biggest reason to go to Pex, especially in low income housing. They're FAR less likely to tear out your plumbing to sell as scrap metal for drugs.
YES
That's what I'm going through now.
OMG, Lord please forgive the ignorant.
I have a little lake cabin that was plumbed with copper that was stolen. It was then plumbed with CPVC that froze and shattered. Then flexible copper that was again stolen. I finally plumbed it with Pex A with only plastic fittings (no brass) and it solved all the issues.
I work in the home building industry in Texas. I'm in 10-12 new builds every day, and haven't seen anything but pex in years. Much better than having some meth-head do thousands of dollars in damage for $20 of copper, and it's easy to work with to boot.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I switched (Set 2019) recently from PEX B system to PEX A. The B with copper crimp rings and manual crimp tool works well most of the time if you hold the crimp tool perpendicular to the fitting. But trying to crimp a brass fitting in a tight space is difficult and sometimes must be done more than once to get a good square crimp that does not leak. Finally got tired of those leaks and switched to Uponor PEX A. Supply House salesperson told me there is a competitor to Uponor which is also manufacturers PEX A. Using a used Milwaukee expander tool, I replumbed my two story house ( two bathrooms, two kitchens, one washing machine, and water heater) in several hours and I was not rushing.
The title was PEX vs. Copper but this video was really all about PEX. Should have discussed the pros and cons of cooper as well and the complexities of sweating, routing, etc. It was interesting, though.
pauldhaney
He didn't because the only downsides to copper is the expense and ever so slightly more difficult installation.
It would have been too obvious he's just being cheap with the plumbing.
There are plenty of disadvantages of copper, and he listed several. Expense, installation difficulty, sweating toxicity, copper corrodes with ph, scale builds on copper, flow reduction from bends/limits to number of bends, copper pipes are more prone to freezing/bursting, copper has high thermal conductivity so your hot water has to heat the pipes and surrounding area before getting hot at the tap, ect.
Domminign I can install Pex in 25%of the time to install copper. lol.
216trixie, you're being paid so i want whatever time it takes. I just had a plumber try to use cheap pex when i Clearly said copper.
Doug Phillips Sure, I'll install whatever you want. If you're the lone wolf who will insist on copper, I'll be glad to install. I miss running pipe.....But in ten years of doing pex, I haven't had one pereson go with copper after the price difference is shown. And I've been enjoying saving my customers money on a pipe job. Run hot and cold for a bath, kitchen, w.heater and laundry in 2 to 3 hours? Yep. Fun . I miss copper though, so if you live anywhere near the San Joaquin valley , let me know and I'll do your piping!!
I've used copper almost exclusively with some Pex a few times. I'm really impressed by Pex A. Great video, clear explanation.
I love using PEX Plumbing. Did a small house by my self in a couple days. Two bathrooms and a kitchen. Great product.
Thanks for the good info. A couple of years ago, I replaced a five foot section of a copper, hot water line in my basement bathroom, with PEX and Sharkbite fittings. The project took less than five minutes! Love both products.
I'm glad you talked about the burst resistance. Two years ago I walked into second home in Vermont where every piece of baseboard heat has froze and split. After fixing all the heat we turned the domestic water back on and found zero breaks because they had Uponor pex.
I use a micro system of Roman aqueducts in my walls to supply water.
How is it? I've been meaning to upgrade from my Assyrian irrigation canals.
Violent Kisses pfft, my chinese rice irrigation system is better.
I tried the aqueduct system but we get frost heaves and I just can't keep the house level enough to get the correct flow. Back to Pex.
Ausintune terraced fields on the wall is definitely the best method
Your arches are works of art. FACT
Moved in to our new house and it has a PEX system. I just wanted to get some info on it and you provided it. Thank you👍
I liked your video, I'm hard of hearing and I was able to hear every word clearly. Also I liked your lighting, you can easily see everything that is being talked about and finally you took your time in explaining the differences. Thanks
No griping from me about this video, just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to make it and the clearly presented information.
Good video Matt. Here are other things to consider: 1) PEX can expand when it freezes, but is harder to thaw. 2) PEX can be chewed on by mice creating leaks...I have had clients with that issue. 3) Copper is a natural antimicrobial material, PEX is not. On projects with well water we have seen microbial slime growth in PEX pipe. 4) As far as expanding the pipe to get full flow fittings...Uponor had a patent that has expired. Most PEX manufacturers now offer an equal at lower prices.
Very true about rodents! They love this stuff. My parents live in the country and have had nothing but problems with PEX. I would never use it where this could be a problem.
Thank You! I had never considered the fact that microbiological growth will be uninhibited with PEX! (I live out in the country, and am on well water, and I regularly have to take my table-top ice maker apart every few months in order to clean the goop that grows inside the thin plastic tubing, simply because there is no chlorine in my well water).
I will continue to do any plumbing with copper. (Which I enjoy doing anyways).
Copper is great until the water company treats water with copper eating chemicals our area has endless list of people re piping due to this .
@@tonysitko2540 I would check with your water company. Generally, it is a ph problem with the water that eats the pipe. If it is ph, there are many ways to adjust the ph to stop the issue.
@@billvilla7799 to late repipe time yes the water company should of considered this it is like cancer in our area.
Nice to learn about Pex. As a home-owner of a 70's house, I learned how to fix/solder copper... so Pex is a new thing for me to see.
I used Uponor PEX pipes for my house construction too. A tip for anyone using PEX pipes and fittings. Temperature has a lot to do with installing PEX pipes. If your installing during the Spring, Summer and early Fall you rarely have problems with leaks around fittings. If you’re installing in the Winter in cold climates the PEX pipes takes longer to seat around the fittings. Here’s the tip, keep a heat gun handy and give the PEX and fitting a shot of heat evenly around the fitting and the PEX pipe. The PEX and fitting will seat quickly and stop any leaks you may have had around the fitting. We used brass fittings with PEX pipes and the heat gun solved the problem.
Great blog, and I loved the readers' comments. Very insightful. One think you didn't mention is Shark Bite fittings. That's all I use for my connections. Simply snap together.
sidior12 shark bite fittings really add to the expense
Excellent presentation!! Being an old retired plumber, and a few years before PEX was introduced, I have had several opportunities in the use of type "A", which I like. The only leak I have had, besides a small piece of wood chip a fitting (my error) was learning that when using the expander you have to rotate the tool as you expand the PEX or there will be a slight ridge in the PEX resulting in a leak. I also change to copper for stubbing out of the walls.
The tool he used seemed to rotate on its own, but I can definitely see it as a problem if you're doing it manually.
Love the pex. Using it for ten years. Thx for the info.
This is amazing! I'm getting ready to retire and I am for sure going to install PEX! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
Love this! Very informative as a home inspector!
I'm a plumber, and I'm already working on a 2nd repair, Pex leak due to rats eating the pex. Yeah it's a quick fix, throw a sharkbite (pricy) or cut and use rings and couplings with a replacement pex pipe. Copper, however, is durable and cannot be chewed through by rats, yeah it's expensive, and dealing with solder and flux, but hey, you get what you pay for.
@@douganderson7002 Rats don't exist in the developed world? lol.
Used PEX for the first floor laundry ten years ago. I used a manual crimper with a “go/no go” profile. Very easy install and, of course, no leaks!👍🏻
Excellent review! Very clear, organized and logical. Thank you!
I'm old school so I'm copper man.
I also use pex for special situations like pre-existing pex; corrosive well water and freeze hazards. I only use Uponor pex-a for the ID of the fittings and the pressure that it can stand without bursting. Awesome system!
If you are a really old school guy what not using steel pipes?
Still, you prefer copper, right?
As an old timer (76) I'm open to new ideas and really like the Pex system!
Wow! I know almost nothing about construction and building. I am preparing to buy a home though and know I will need to perform repairs and or remodels on it (based on what we can afford). Finding this video by Matt was really encouraging to see what quality content there is to learn about this. You were knowledgeable, concise, and explained things in a manner anyone could understand. This is possibly the best how to video I have ever seen on youtube. Thanks!
That side-by-side comparison of type A & B joints was the excellent point of the video! Watched a few videos until saw it here! Thanks
Very informative. I would of liked to hear about connections to the toilets and sinks. I find plastics systems are flimsy at the shut off valves. I usually transitions copper behind walls or in the floor
i've built two houses with pex, and what i use on the toilets is a brass drop elbow, and for sinks, crimp on an NPT adapter and connect straight to your braided stainless. there are easy solutions for every situation
Uponor is a great system. Much fewer fittings are needed with this system. Once did an entire repipe using 7 fittings total
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son in that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life John 3:16
"Discovered" PEX via RV repair. Great stuff and now use whenever I can in home and on the road. There are adapters out there for any type pipe you can encounter to get to PEX for great repairs in older homes.
Matt: love your info and exp. with building . I have used pex B for years with no problems in home renovation . I am going to switch to upon or because of more flow due to larger openings in the fittings.
We use the Uponor, too! Yes sir, the ID is larger. Also, nice framing job! #LVL technology. Westbriar Construction, LLC. Fort Worth, Texas.
Nice! You are just a few hours North of me
PEX is safe from junkies. Time & time again, I have to reinstall plumbing due to the junkies stealing the copper tubing from homes. Thankful to the PEX to save the day. Easier to cut & to install.
Pretty good point you got there. Well said.
Unless you use brass fittings
Lame excuse because they can't be much of "Junkies" if they left the kitchen sink.
Yago Usera or your engine block
Dh66- Your problem ? English Grammar here.
This assured me to go PEX on my new in-house plumbing linkage from the basement to the shower room.Thank you a TON!
I started watching these because I have to replace a water line after our recent freeze. My trade is carpentry. As an observation of what all the plumbers have been doing, I have seen this newer pex with the expandable locking collars that self seal around the fittings. pretty cool stuff! I just wish I could get it for myself.
I've been plumbing 20 years and I finally did my first pex recipe last month. I was always sceptical. It was super easy to install and no leaks initially.
Lol, initally
R Genericson, in Italy 🇮🇹
I've got a mix of copper and pvc. It acts as a timeline of when projects were done in this house (Built in 1920s). Eventually I would like to replace with PEX. A friend recently showed me his PEX system and I loved the control valve setup. It was just like a breaker panel to control each circuit.
+RobbieDW that is a cool feature I never mentioned
my parent's house has radiant floor heat using PEX, and also have a manifold like that. Its quite interesting!
Only problem with a manifold setup is when you turn on a hot water fixture you only fill that line then you turn on a different fixture you have to fill that line. A trunk setup allows water flow in the trunk so time is cut way down
Very helpful and super detail on PEX
With your video I made my choice on what to material to use on my plumbing which needs to be replace
Thanks for the PEX-A expansion tool demo. I am sold.
Matt, as always, great video. I had a slab leak on my 50 year old home in Dallas back in 2015. After talking to neighbors, it was evident that my copper pipes under the slab were end of life. I did a ton of research and asked for Uponor Aquapex (PEX-A) by name because i wanted the pipe to be more flexible to run in my small attic (and also more flexible in freezing conditions) as well as allow for better water flow compared to Pex B. I had a permit pulled and had a plumber re-pipe the house through the attic in a trunk and branch configuration. I already had a D'mand recirculation pump, so we simply had a proper pump return loop added.
Pros:
- Almost instant hot water - Hot water pump (ACT D'Mand pump) takes only 30 seconds to deliver hot water over 100 ft across 3/4 inch pipe. the hot water is fully distributed through the entire hot water trunk quickly.
-Water & energy savings - After the D'mand pump runs, I only need to open the hot water valve on the bath or shower for 5-8 seconds before getting hot water. The insulated hot water lines stay warm for around 15 mins (great for kitchens and laundry rooms where the water has to be turned on and off minutes apart). This really cuts down on having to run the faucet to get hot water again.
-Relatively easy installation - some drywall repair work was needed to re-pipe my house, but overall, not a horrible process.
-Piece of mind - I know that another slab leak from water pipes will never occur (common in my neighborhood).
-Even if a pipe freezes, the pipe won't burst - I have not had my pipes in the attic freeze even when the temperature was in the low-20's, so that has been good.
-Flame Free Installation - A huge plus in confined spaces
-No Digging Under house & No tearing up flooring for a repair
Cons:
- Temperature Extremes - Even though pipes are insulated in the attic, they make the water more susceptible to higher temperature swings throughout the year. In the summer, the water can be around 100 degrees until cooler water from underground flows through (because the attic is about 125 degrees). The warmer days fool my D'Mand pump into thinking hot water has been delivered throughout the house, so it stops early when we press our hot water button. In colder months, water temps from the pipes in the attic can be 40-50 degrees during cold snaps outside, once flushed out, the water is normal ground temperature (55-60 degrees). The initial temperatures are a bit cold when you just need to wash your hands. This is only noticeable about 3 months of the year.
-Construction & Drywall repair - every plumbing fixture in the house had to have new pipes run in the walls. Hollow core interior walls were much easier to run piping but a few walls were exterior walls and required more effort.
Chris Wilson great comment. Thanks for sharing.
Uponor AquaPEX tubing is the best answer. Expensive tools but most fool resistant system.
Chris Wilson, D'Mand pump in cold climate certainly don't save energies. We installed one in my friend house, and he deactivate it mid-winter after he realized that his water heater was almost running full time. Yes the pipes were insulated. Saved on heating though... ;-)
No re-circulation pump is designed to save overall energy (because energy is lost recirculating hot water in pipes, even with insulation). It is designed to reduce water waste and deliver hot water quickly to a remote part of a house's plumbing fixtures (such as a far bedroom or remote laundry room). D'mand pumps do use less energy to run than most recirculation pumps on the market because they only run when a user pushes a button instead of running for hours during a set schedule or 24/7 like other pumps (more energy is wasted when a motor is running for hours and hot water is being recirculated in a cold environment). Once the D'mand pump gets hot water (less than a minute), a temperature sensor turns the pump off until a user pushes the button again.
A great application for the D'mand pump is when a laundry room is located at the end of the hot water branch. Most HE washers only use about 5-7 gallons per fill cycle (wash, rinse, etc), so when a user wants a hot water cycle, the water ends up being mostly cold unless the user flushes out the cold water in the hot water pipe through a nearby sink or other plumbing fixture. Without this flush, the washer will be full of mostly cold water by the time the actual hot water gets to the laundry room. By the time the washer needs another fill cycle for rinse, the hot water that got to the laundry room will be cool again over the 20 minutes that it sits in the pipe. The D'mand pump installed as close to the end of the branch will allow the fill water to be mostly hot water.
It is an item of convenience that I have gotten very used to and it would be hard to go back. Anytime I want to take a shower, I press the button 30 seconds before turning on the shower. The pump runs for about 1 minute to circulate hot water over 100ft of 3/4 inch hot water pipe in my house but the hot water gets to the end of the house in the first 30 seconds (the pump shuts off once hot water reaches the pump at the end of the loop (about 1 minute). The faucet has hot water within 7 seconds of turning it on, so very little water is wasted.
My brother visited recently and turned on the shower for a full 5 minutes before using it because he was used to his apartment taking a long time for hot water to get to his bathroom (this is his daily routine). Does the pump offset the cost of energy loss by saving more water? Not in my area but it might in places that water is expensive. I personally hate dumping 5-10 gallons down the drain every time i need hot water at the kitchen sink, laundry room or my master bathroom (all located on the far end of the house away from the water heater).
They were wrapped in poly at the slab penetration but nothing else. Pinhole leaks are common in my neighborhood (Fox & Jacobs DFW mass builder from the 60's). Most mass builders do not pay attention to quality. One of my neighbors is an electrician and he says that the houses in our neighborhood had no electrical ground rod installed when the houses were built, thus they used the copper piping as the grounding mechanism. Over the years, nearby lightning strikes and electrical shunts to ground have cause pinhole leaks to develop.
A few months back, we had a lightning strike a nearby electrical pole. Within 2 weeks, we had 5 neighbors in the vicinity of the electrical pole need slab leak repairs (2 decided to go to PEX-A). Coincidence? Maybe... Truth is most houses in our area are starting to get pinhole leaks and replacing with PEX is a more viable option compared to tunneling to replace all copper pipes (one neighbor told me he has done 14 slab leak repairs in his copper lines).
Hey Matt - I learned the plumbing trade using copper so I'm more than comfortable installing hard copper waterlines. I think you should have included the PEX 'Copper Ring Crimp' system since it's by far more popular than A or B. My biggest complaint about PEX over Copper is that it's hard to make a neat looking install with plastic, Oh and Copper has natural antiseptic qualities and will kill some microbes when exposed long enough - can't do that with plastic! Thanks for posting.
Excellent video. You resented the subject well and easy enough for us novices.
Great video. We even have this in Australia. Looks excellent.
This is one of the reasons why I plumbed my last custom home entirely (including in-floor hydronic heating) with PEX instead of copper. I love it!
I've never used anything BUT PEX for hydronic heating, solid pipe would be a nightmare to make a nice grid without some sort of jig.
I love this channel, awesome tips!!
+Shaun Edwards thanks Buddy! Appreciate the kind words!
excellent video - have used this product for 20 years with excellent results. still amazed how some ignorant plumbers still berate this system. can also be used for air piping systems - works perfectly and lasts. another plus is less chance of torching the building down !
Great video I have people telling me about the "dangers" of Pex all the time , who never did one minute of plumbing.
Thank you for the primer on PEX. I've seen it around, never used it, and never before realized there are types "A" and a "B." I hear the caveats against "rats" and would accept that challenge, as modern houses are full of "chewables" (like Romex) anyway. But what intimidates me (as an engineer, who formerly designed production electronics) is the danger of swearing allegiance to anything that is single-sourced. So if those PEX fittings are not manufactured by more than one company, I'd raise my red flag and stop, before the first hole was drilled, before the first tube was laid.
Matt Risinger touched upon this subject only momentarily, and it deserves full exposure, full diligence. Single sourced parts require the sign-off of a Chief Technology Office, or similar, in properly-run engineering corporations. Take a lesson from those people who push paper all day... and sleep well at night, knowing they have multiple sources for critical components.
For what it's worth...one year later...I'm re-doing my house with PEX-A, and there are now at least two different manufacturers: Uponor/Wirsbo/ProPex, and Apollo, which is distributed by the big-box stores. It seems like the system is taking off, and I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes the new standard. Copper seems great at first, but almost all of mine has completely corroded.
There are alternatives even using single-source components. For example with PEX, if the company goes belly up, you can always cut out sections and replace with other types or other manufacturers. It isn't like the system goes in and you would have to replace the whole system if a single-source goes out of business. It is somewhat modular in that way.
Read this guys analysis of PEX boys and girls. This is how to correctly and present a position in a written format. Very well structured and thought out. All points of concern that would matter are asked and answered. Very little is left unanswered by the end of the post. And many good points are brought up, such as red flag issues. Well done, now if only more people could be as accurate and concise.
There are many manufacturers and has been for quite awhile. Now what all can be found in your local areas might not be the case. He mentioned Viega and Upanor in the video. But there are many others such as Ipex, Rehau, EvoPex, Auspex and Duopex that I have seen. And have heard of Vanguard and Zurn as well. There are also many other types of fittings that can be used with PEX not mentioned in the video. Also not mentioned in the video is a 'C' type as well, but it is the stiffest and more prone to kinking and freezing, although also the cheapest. So is no red flags needed, as stated in the video PEX has been around for many decades and has many manufacturers making this product as a result.
Still love good ol copper and it’s a good skill to have to know how to run copper, but that rehau sure is some good shit
Knowing how to repair vacuum tube computers is also a 'good skill' to have
Never knew about PEX until this video sounds like some great stuff
thanks for sharing with us. that"s great and also more knoledge to me very appreciated
Uponor all the way up here in Michigan. Cost drove us to switch from copper to PEX B, the pressure drop moved us from PEX B to Uponor. Price difference between copper and Uponor is not huge but ease of installation is a big part as well as resistance to breaking from freezing. Good call on the mineral build up on the inside of copper. I've seen many copper pipes reduced by half it's original size or they get super thin over time. Keep up the good work!!!
+Jim Kandell thank Jim. Interesting to hear your moves in the plumbing world. Best, Matt
And then when you spend a day piping, your work will be there tomorrow, not just the holes if you ran copper
Hey Jim, I actually work for Uponor in the mixing and tooling department. Just wanted to say thank you for the support! We work very hard to make sure we send out a great product.
Wish plumbing was easier to replace :/
No price difference in Michigan? Wow ! Here in Illinois copper costs way more than plastic . We have people who steal copper, but not plastic.
Lemme tell ya, if you don't properly support those pex lines, noise will still be an issue. It's slightly different from true water hammer, but those lines will flop around in any space you give them and the noise from them smacking into things will sound virtually the same. Regardless, loved that install. Loved working with that product. I prefer the Uponor. Worth the expense, IMO.
+Isaac Carrizal thanks for the tip
That's why you use anti-hammer devices, but aren't those required pretty much everywhere now?
Good to note. I think pex is like anything else, installed poorly and you will get poor results. Copper is loud too when hammering happens and nails pull over time from straps or too few were used.
Indeed. Too much slack in the system or a run that's not snugged down near the drywall will cause hammering. Source: My walls. Live & Learn I guess.
Yes you are so right, after they built our new house which has pex through out the home I started noticing a rattling sound every time a commode was flushed. Come to find out the line in the wall going to the valve for the supply line of the refrigerator ice-maker was not properly supported in the wall and would rattle around.
I really appreciate your videos. I learn something every time I watch. Free education! Thanks :)
great video! as long as you install in right,all will work well...
I was able to replumb the majority of my house in 1 day and get the water back on using PEX-a. I recommend it for the great ease of installation. I do taste a plastic taint of the water in the mornings when water has been sitting in the pipes all night. Run the water for a bit and the taste is completely gone.
Thanks, I’m having the same thing done at this very moment. Seems that most like it 👍
I used PEX-b to repipe my house. Glad Matt pointed out pex -b is smaller diameter it really does affect flow. My water meter at the street was 3/4" and i used 3/4 pex pipe from the meter to the manifold. I do notice a pressure drop when more than one tap is open. Not a big deal in a small house but consider sizing up if you have long runs or a big family using water at the same time
Also If you have a tankless water heater they suggest i think 15" of alternative pipe before you transition to pex due to the heat transfer from the coils
its not a pressure drop... you just have less volume.... you cant change yer pressure unless you have a pressure reducing valve... just wanted to clear that up
As a industrial Master Plumber who switched over to residential after 38 yrs. I can tell you that you never use less than 1" to feed even a single family residence, and have never seen a valve or meter from the towns supply that small as you said, but even if I did it would be 1" that I would run.
You need about 1" PEX for the same volume as Cu 3/4". PEX pipes have much thicker walls.
If Matt was accurate with losing about a 1/8 inch diameter with PEX-B on a 3/4 inch line, then the difference in cross sectional area is a factor of 1.44. That implies that at the same pressure, the PEX-A fitting could pass almost half again more water.
Niceguy217/master_plumber: My city meter (at the curb) is merely 5/8". It's been working fine for 60 years. In 1991 I re-fresh-water-piped my entire house with L copper, all the way from every shower head back to the street. The main is 1 inch, and it's quite long, probably 60 feet before first tap in the house. I have 68psi static pressure and awesome flow everywhere. Two people shower simultaneously with no inconvenience, no temperature shock, etc.
I repiped a house yesterday in PEX A using the Milwaukee pipe expansion tool. I absolutely love using this material just because it's flexible and no heat is needed. It's also color coded Blue and Red and not expensive.
🇫🇮 Uponor Finland 🇫🇮 👍 I didn't know this new collar system. Will use it in my next projects. Thanks for the video!
Built my new house with Uponor PEX-A. Great system. When I was designing the house, I asked several plumbers in the Detroit area: PEX or Copper. Best answer I got was "PEX, because I don't want to plumb my house twice with copper - once on rough-in, and a second time after someone walks away with all my Copper!!"
We did use about 10% copper. When it sweats, it is great, but the occasional fitting leaks, and drying it out to repair it is a real pain.
Tested all my PEX with air. Only leak I had was when I re-used a fitting on my pressure test manifold, and nicked the barb with a razor.
Re-work is always harder than getting it right the first time, but with PEX, if you make a mistake, hope you have some slack - there are no re-dos, cut the tube and replace the fitting (you can use a torch to remove PEX from brass fittings - I wouldn't try to re-use a plastic PEX fitting). Reworking Copper is always tricky, but it is possible.
used uponor to replace a 30 foot run of copper pipe that started leaking..the copper had 4 turns in it. Used one straight piece of pex...very easy to use
I had my old house converted from the crumbling galvanized pipe to PEX back in 2015, as well as replaced the water heater with a tank-less unit.
So far I've had zero problems!
While I have to flush the heater every 6 months, I can see the tank-less water heater lasting much longer than the tank version it replaced.
I've also noticed that it doesn't take much longer than the old tank to get hot water, and it lasts as long as the water is running.
Because it doesn't run unless hot water is needed, it's paid fr itself in the last 5 years in cost savings!
Your presentation was very informative and positive. Thank you for the information.
Makes sense ! My issue with insert connectors has always been loss of diameter. Pex a is better!
I'm a property inspector, and have seen time and time again how well copper holds up over time. The plastic issues of algae buildup and chlorine corrosion over time are what I am looking at. It appears as if everybody forgot about the Polybutylene (PB) issues, a plastic manufactured between 1978 and mid-1995 that resulted in class action lawsuits. Only time will tell. Copper does have it's weaknesses, but lets face it...it's proven to last in MOST cases.
"Only time will tell." PEX has been around since the 60s.
Also rodent and attic critters love to chew on pex.. pex is great in Boats and Rv's but thats about it
I remember the PB piping and for that reason I would never use PEX.
Polybutelene(aka big blue for exterior water services or qest gray pipe for interior distribution systems) was manufactured by shell oil co, tested with distilled water, and primarily installed in chlorinated water systems(municipalities). Absolutely prone to leaks since chlorine directly reacts with butelene, unless you're on well water(naturally no chlorine). As a result, a multi-billion dollar class action lawsuit. Polyethylene expansion type(wirsbo or uponor) is perfectly OK, city or well water, when installed correctly. Crimp style is for the unlicensed or Home Depot rookies!!(My licensed contractor opinion)
P.S.-the first five letters of plumber or plumbing is "plumb". This means straight lines, properly positioned tee's, and true 90° bends! Take pride in your installation!! Long sweeping loops are for lazy bums looking for quick pay. This can cause "water hammer". I know being the expert that goes behind these new construction installers, sometimes needing to cut drywall, and securing the rattling pipe. Also, the "excessive bends or 90's & tee's making less pressure" theory is BS when you follow your state code. Main lines and interior distribution lines are sized based on fixture units, exactly like the drainage sysyem. Plumb the system efficiently(least fittings necessary), size the pipe properly, and the fitting count WILL NOT REDUCE the pressure, even with all fixtures running simultaneously. The plumber protects the health of the nation, word!
Btw, algae forms with stagnient water such as an unused R/O system, not with moving water.
Was searching for the benefits of PEX in new homes, thank you for this video!
I'm a master plumber in Atlanta, and I have been using pex to repipe houses. Very easy to work with. I use elbows instead of making wide turns (most of the time) It looks more professional. I use the crimp tool type. Look at pex and freezing. I read article on a plumbing site where plumbers were saying (in Alaska) that some of it froze, but didn't split.
Thank you for posting this.
Some of the PEX horror stories came from the KITEC fittings, rather than the PEX tubing itself. The hard water here in Las Vegas leeched the zinc from the improperly made fittings and caused leaks. The PEX tubing itself was fine.
However, you need to watch out for rodents. They can and will eat your piping. Also, make sure you have the sticker in your breaker panel warning that the house doesn't have conductive plumbing and that it shouldn't be used as a ground.
Thanks Mike. I live the Valley as well. My home has copper, but as I have been renovating certain areas of plumbing, I have used PEX with shark bite. The oldest going on 5 years, no problems.
Mike McKeen yes, exactly, the kitek manifolds and connectors.
But the copper pipes also corroded - at least the hot water side. Either due to little grit inside drilling holes at vortices, and/or if H and C were too close together under slab, it became a “battery” and the Cold stayed nice and bright copper, while the Hot corroded to failure.
Although metallic plumbing systems are required to be grounded to prevent them from becoming accidentally energized, they can only be used as the main service grounding electrode by the NEC, but no other grounding purposes. Most cities and inspectors won't even allow that since a lot of the underground piping supplying the house has been replaced with plastic, and the code requires 5' of steel pipe in contact with the earth.
Mike McKeen i believe you’re confused with “Apex” the maker of Kitec plumbing
You shouldn't ground your electric to your water line to begin with in the last 25 years I have fixed/replaced hundreds of under ground water lines that were leaking due to electrolysis
Matt: I wish I knew about half of what you share and discuss when I built my home back in 2001
I've got a 20 year old manufactured home that uses CPVC. I've never been happy with it. Ever since I heard of PEX I've been saving money to simply run the PEX in and cap off all the CPVC. I like the difference you've shown and I'll go with the PEX-A. I'll also be adding a tankless water heater. Thank you for this video.
Keep up the good work.Thanks for sharing your experience.👷
Only knock I've read about PEX revolves around plumbers using the improper fittings in order to save money on materials.
Pex is fun to work with... 😃
...kinda like "Lincoln Logs" for adults!
Thanks for simple easy to understand on "PEX vs. Copper Plumbing".
I know this is an older video, but still useful to those of us looking to use Pex for the first time. I agree, especially based on the ID of fittings, the the Pex-A has the edge. Looks like I’ll be going that way.
The PEX A has a full 1/2 3/4 etc flow. The others lose volume due to the fittings which inside diameter is 1/8 in thick. So for a 1/2 pipe you lose over 40% of your volume.
6/8 = 3/4 so 25% less, and you suck at math
As much as i enjoyed your video ,I wonder why you left out Crimp fitting on your comparison.
He didn't leave that out. He even showed how the crimp fittings restrict the flow more than the expansion tool fittings did. Who cares? Copper is king.
Tks... never heard of PEX before; good product “it seems” Tks again 👌🏻👌🏻
I have used copper, plastic PVC and now. I do like the pics Plumbing for all the same reasons as what you said and more
I would actually like to correct you in the beginning around the two and a half minute Mark where you say that there is less pressure drop because I can tell you that there's more friction loss in CPVC versus copper. I personally wouldn't have used the PEX for a rain head, and I certainly wouldn't use it for a main branch because of those friction losses. Also, Type L copper is actually pretty resistant to freezing as well and the CPVC well fatigue if it keeps freezing and unfreezing. Anyways, copper is 10 times better and the only reason that it's not better right now is because of the price. But at the end of the day everyone is going to be using this stuff because other ridiculous price the copper is.
There is another down side to this piping, rodents love chewing through it. I have repaired 7 leaks so far. It was a sudden burst of rodents and they went to town on my pluming
Yikes!!! 🤯
I build a log cabin upstate New York I used Pex tubing on my whole house what a beautiful product nice feature with that is once the fittings are fitted to the tubing you could rotate them.
Thank You Matt!!
Dang I wish I had seen these before ....
I first used pex B and loved the long runs and speed of installation. Crimping copper rings wa fine mostly bit a number of times it was difficult to get the crimp tool up in tight spaces between joists / rafters and I got some leaks because I could not crimp squarely onto the brass fitting. So I have replaced the pe b with the Uponor expandable fittings. Not only are the plastic fittings much cheaper, the ability to expand the pipe makes joining easy especially in hard to reach areas. Note Uponor brass fittings are more expensive than other manufacturers brass fittings and you can only use Uponor brass for their PEX A hense I use the plastic whenever I can. And local plumbing supply companies charge more than the online suppliers. I wound not want to use a manual expander so I found a used milwaukee expander on eBay for less than 100 bucks. Did not buy new ($500.00) to do two houses.
Very Lucky Buy on the M12. Do you want to sell it?
I made my own crimping tool when I added an outside shower outlet on our motor home, and couldn't get near the crimp rings with a regular crimper because of confined space.
I used 2 pieces of 1/2" x 3/4" x 3" pieces of steel, clamped to two pieces togeter and drilled and tapped out for 5/16" bolts to hold the pieces together. I then drilled a 11/16" hole in the middle between the two pieces. Takes a bit longer to do a joint, but no problem pulling the two sides together with a bolt on either side of the ring hole. Also came in very handy when I tired of copper lines clogging from calcium, and replumbing the whole house several years ago and ran into small spaces. Never had a single leak, neither in the motor home, nor in the house.
One added benefit of PEX over copper that I didn't see mentioned is safety. No fire has ever been started by a crimping tool, something that can't be said about a torch.
Extremely informative.Carry on with your good work.Thank you very much sir.
We had a presentation from one of the reps at Uponor today. He mentioned all of the things you talked about today. It seems like a great product! I will definitely use it in my house one day!
Another thing they mentioned was that the Uponor (Pex A) product will return back to it's original shape if you heat it up (you touched on that a bit) and the fittings themselves are incredibly secure; they have a better tensile strength than the Pex itself.
Just doesnt like uv
I prefer lead piping. Makes the water taste gooder.
I agre! No drain bramage here
"water taste gooder"? You meant "water taste more gooder". Sorry I just had to correct you english.
Matt, I am a homeowner that pulled all the 20 year old copper out of my house because our well water is acidic and the copper pipes were suffering pin hole leaks. In the last 7 years there have been about 5 leaks. We do not have a water softener and prefer not to have one. I have replaced all my plumbing with Uponor ProPex using brass fittings only. I do not think the Uponor plastic fittings can stand for 30 to 50 years like the Pex tubing and the brass fittings can. I use the Milwaukee tool that you show and have never had a single leak or failure. With the brass fittings the ProPex system is not cheaper than traditional copper. Those fittings are expensive. Finally I would like to agree with you that the total pressure drop of the ProPex system is much less than any other system and its resistance to freeze is very good. One disadvantage to any plastic system relative to copper is that they can be chewed by rodents. One disadvantage to type B Pex is that the crimping tool has to be calibrated or they will fail to provide the proper crimp. I prefer ProPex over all other systems.
@barkbarkattemoon: can you cite something as to the reliability of the brass vs the poly Uponor fittings regarding low ph water conditions? I'm just about to rip out all the copper in my house because of low ph and was planning on using the poly fittings. Are the brass ones immune to low ph?
matt, you always bring great content. thank you
I only used brass fittings and the cinch type bands when I did my house. Ran everything to a manifold so I can shut off just the one I need to work on instead of the whole house. Love the manifolds.
I do all home runs. Set manifolds in the utility space,, ideally with a shut off for each. Zero fittings. or fittings only at the point of use. No fittings,, no leaks.
slightly more expensive, but totally the way to go, no reason to have to shut down the whole damn house just to service a bathroom
Home runs are code in CA. 😃
I at least wish everyone had a shutoff at each point of use.
@@robertd.fisherjr.2875 we do. Use bullets for the exits. The angle stop or shut off valves and Bam.
Good idea for those who do not want to have water volume issues when something else is using water. Trac houses built today seem to be mostly junk craftsmanship in all areas.
i wanna see a video of someone crimping 20 year old pex tubes. i work in the electronics and auto field and ALL plastics get brittle after 15 years, sure no UV in the wall will help but, copper can last 50+ years. you can do curves with copper too.
Great info, did not understand the PEX system, now I do.
Thanks for the overview!
I have used it all. I am a fan of PEX, for most situations for several reasons. First, the material is less than half the cost of copper to buy. Second the labor is less than half the cost of copper, to install. Third, the speed of water flow is much better with PEX. Forth, break ins and robberies are almost non existent, with a PEX install. Finally, repairs and upgrades to a system are much easier with PEX.
So other than theft copper is still the way to go overall using proper fittings, correct!
So how does a potential copper thief know that you do not have copper?
6:53 - Um, you are supposed to rotate the expander 45 degrees every time you expand it so it is even or it can leak. It's in the Uponor manual and on their website. Also, it shrinks for much longer than a few seconds. 1/2 hour if its cold. Its also in the manual. I bought the hand operated expander and its a pain but it works. Strong joint.
The Milwaukee tool automatically rotates. You only need to rotate the piece if you're using the manual expanding tool.
@@scottcraig1047 Thank you, I stand corrected.
I have used compression fittings with PEX (SpeedFit) using the inserts, and I think for *me* is the best system. I am not a plumber but am gutting and redoing my bathrooms.