INFI Steel Revealed? Analysis of Joe X's Busse AFBM
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- Опубліковано 10 лют 2025
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awesome Video!!!! thanks! so it will go back to the maker!!! nice!!!!
MARLBORO !
Marlboro...!!
@@ogorublackmaster2673 Marlboro!!
I was wondering when you were going to make this! I love what JoeX did. And is doing. He is reminding us of the bigger picture. Of human nature. That knife companies are businesses that are out to make a profit, and they're run by humans. Some of which are honest, and some are not. He reminds us that marketing is a thing and you can choose to fall for it, or you can test things yourself and decide if a product is worth your money.
@@jimbusmaximus4624 MARLBORO 🤘😎🔥
Joe X is legend
Marlboro
Here we go! I just Rebuilt my Cold Steel Kukri plus, cause it couldn't handle firewood splitting...Now it can after I welded it! I don't need China, or Cold Steel anymore 👍 MARLBORO 💯👍♥️🗡
Hope you didn't ruin the heattreatment..
@Anvil-wg2je I prove that in every build & test video I make, A custom knife maker also says that there is no way I get it hot enough from my welding to effect it, I have proven it for 4 years already 💯🔥💯👍🗡
@@deadwolfresistance13 No matter what steel or heat treatment?
@@Anvil-wg2je So far 👍🔥💯
Yepp seen it
As a QC for an airplane manufacturer, I watch how hard it is to get workers invested in a company's goals and quality standards. Some people just want to do the job and go home. But the company's reaction is ultimately what matters.
VERY true!
Well said! Very hard to get employee buy in but service wins everyday...
This was amazing to see and the info was better than expected. I'm surprised you went so far as the analysis of the steel. Your close ups of the pieces were excellent. They did show laying in the steel. Also, steel is like glass. Get the harmonic frequency right and it shatters or breaks like glass. (Joe X and the Iron Post test.)
I've watched Joe X destroy some of my fav CS blades now since the company was sold. He is great at the destruction tests. However, how many of us are actually ever going to be in situations to do such things to our knives? Probably none since you would use other tools or methods of doing something even if without most tools. So his tests are similar to CS lock breaking tests. Something cool but wouldn't be done in real world settings with a knife.
You are right about geometry of the blade edge. I usually reprofile my knives that have very low angle grinds if I am going to abuse them at all. Others I leave as is for slicing.
Excellent vid, as always. Thanks. Take Care and Stay Safe from a blade nerd.
So I would hope nobody else would take their knives to this point of abuse HOWEVER-
It is also good to show because you can normally see when I knife starts to give up- it all goes.
Stress fractures can form without the knife breaking then can break down the road with far less severe use-
So there are things to be gathered from ultimate abuse and dustruction.
Thanks! I felt that getting the analysis was what needed to be done for this video to be worth anything and I'm glad I did.
Good video man. I appreciate the lengths Joe goes to. I think that this industry needs some of this to hold those accountable on what people's hard earned money is being spent on. Does every knife need to be a pry bar ? Absolutely not. But it's still nice to see what limits they can or can't commit to. Thanks for sharing the video man. Much appreciated 👍👍
Fredrik Haakonsen from Europe uses A8mod and S7. Makes some impressive stuff.
Yeah I'm a fan of his work and I bug him about metallurgy from time to time.
@Thepreppersbunkeroutdoors lol he helped me design my first custom made knife.
I love A8Mod. Wish we saw it more in affordable bushcraft and Survival style knives. I know Work Tuff Gear has started using it more and more the last year or 2 (Bohler K329), and it's an excellent steel for hard use knives.
@@Cid_1 i think bohler k329 is a similar steel but is closer to dc53.
I might have to look again.
But yes, both A8 and A8Mod deserve more market share!
I stand corrected, it looks like you were 100% right!
@@Thepreppersbunkeroutdoors Agreed. I believe DC53 is closer to Sleipner & Niolox. Where K329 is in the 8% Chromium steel group. This is the description directly from Bohler: BÖHLER K329 belongs to the group of 8% chromium steels and is a modified 1.2360 (AISI A8) type
@@Thepreppersbunkeroutdoors No worries. It's not easy to keep track of all the steel around these days 🤣
Bohler K329 is directly an European equivalent to AISI A8Mod.
A8Mod is A8 with minus 0.05 point of C, the addition of 3 points of Cr, the addition of about 0.5% of V and the removal of W.
There is no Ni in either one.
Facinating. Keep up the great work 💯👍
Busse warranty experience... Purchased two early TGLB knives from them. Tanker gray with black micarta scales and a competition finish with natural micro scales. Noticed the competition blade had no name on it even though I didn't order a sterile model. They admitted it was their mistake and told me to return it to them. When they received it they convinced me to pay for G10 scales, tan and black. Knife came back laser etched but I noticed the scales were uneven against the steel allowing water to collect under the scales with the scalloped handle. The finish on the blade was scratched and scuffed severely when they replaced the scales. The knife went back to them. When they sent it back they shipped it to the wrong address. After months of going back and forth with them they gave me two options. 1. Wait till they decide to do another run of the TGLB, no timeframe available. I was looking at a year plus. 2. They mail me a check for the purchase amount even though the price had already increased on the secondary market since the knife wasn't being made any longer. I had to settle for the check. I was able to find a similar knife for sale at a local gun show (competition/G10) and bought it for an additional $200 over what I originally paid for it. I still wonder to this day if the knife I bought was my original knife Busse sent to a wrong address. As far as I'm concerned, I have no warranty on any of my Busse, Rat, Scrapyard knives. Worst experience I have had with a knife company. The time, running around, outright lies, and blame game, have all been documented on email. Because of this, I have relegated all their knives as safe queens rather than being out all that money if they break or get damaged.
@@ANGELSRAGE77 😲😲😲😲
Bro you are silly, should have kept the sterile version as it would worth more lol
The knife being sterile doesn't increase it's value. If anything, it makes it more difficult to identify as an authentic Busse. This option is offered for those who don't want it to be able to be identified as an American product. Rather silly of you to post such a reply...
@@ANGELSRAGE77 I have seen collectors liking sterile ones.
Yes it was kind of a bad experience, but it could be an apprentice made a mistake, and they ran out of spare knives. After all they can’t make a knife out of thin air in no time.
Let me guess, you are a Busse fan and my experience with them has somehow offended you? There's no need to make excuses for them unless you are on their payroll. Everyone I dealt with there are long time employees including Busse himself and his brother. They are a small business. Oh, but you didn't know this, yet you are giving me grief as if they did nothing wrong or I am somehow to blame. Another thing, if you plan on giving a lifetime warranty on something then you better have enough replacements in stock or the means to make that item quickly. As a last resort you can offer a replacement of equal or greater value. Things that they didn't do at that time.
I'll give you an example of proper customer service related to this topic. I bought two Ranger knives from OKC after speaking with Justin from Ranger Knives. He recommended I try theirs first and if I wasn't happy with its performance then we could look into him making me a custom blade. After receiving an RD7 & RD9, I noticed that the blades have a tapered construction starting from the choil to the tip. I spoke to Justin again and he said they weren't supposed to be that way so I called OKC. The service rep informed me they were aware of this and were in the process of trying to make new ones with the proper thickness throughout. He told me to give him two months and he would get me replacements. After three months he contacted me back and told me they did not have an ETA since they needed to retool their production. Meanwhile, he had been calling me every two weeks with updates. At the three month mark he offered to send me two knives of my choice as replacements. ANY of their knives regardless if the cost was greater than the RD series. I chose the RAT-7 & RTAK-II as suitable replacements. They were sent out overnight at no cost to me and as a pleasant surprise OKC told me to keep the RD knives as an apology for the inconvenience. I was expecting and willing to send the RD knives back to them. I still have the RD & RAT knives and they have served me well in the Everglades. That is phenomenal customer service. No lies or blame games, but more importantly they wanted me to be satisfied with the resolution.
Does Busse make a good product... yes they do, in my opinion. I have four of their knives, Busse and kin. All four have their pros and cons as any other tool. But now that I know what their customer service and warranty are really like, I have opted to keep them in the safe rather than risk having to deal with them again or be out a large sum of money if one or more have issues down the line. In the business world everyone knows your reputation is only as good as your last interaction with a customer. What good is a product if you don't have the means to back it up? There is no excuse to justify how they handled my issue especially when all the mistakes where made on their end.
All I can do is share my personal experience with them so that others may know what they may or may not encounter when dealing with them. If I would've know all this prior, I wouldn't have purchased their products, much less four at the same time. End of story.
P.S. Why did I spend what I did on replacing the competition model? They released it early into the Walking Dead series which my daughter was a big fan of at the time. This was going to be handed down to her when she was older as Darryl Dixon was her favorite character. She loves knives just like her father. It goes to show that there could be value to a product than just the price tag. They knew this as I had informed them of it hoping that they would make it right and just send me what I had payed for. They didn't and I was out the extra money in order to make sure my daughter was happy. Let's leave it at that.
Oh, I thought this was review of Gary Busey’s knife, oh well I’ll keep looking. 😂
🤣
You must be discombobulated.
Great video Jacob can’t wait for the follow up!!!
I bought into them for the INFI legend but stayed for the ergos. Honestly, to me, the best products Busse makes are the Scrap Yards, the Swamp Rats for knives with scales. I remember you saying you didn't like the SYKCOs that much somewhere. I've never had even the slightest sharpness issue with their 52100 steel, but have ALWAYS had rolling and blunting issues with INFI 100% of the time with the 6/6 INFI Busse knives I've had. It's like the blades were made out of play dough. I only keep a Sycko and a Busse around these days, I've personally never looked back.
So I don't care for any resprene/ kraton/ rubber handles, and the 2 skyco's i got were only moderately sharp with very poorly ground edges.
Could it be fixed? I'm sure, but I don't think we should have to in this segment of the market.
I have a Hell razor II and a regulator thats it i dont need to corner the market in these friggin things
@@Thepreppersbunkeroutdoors res-c is not like the typical kraton
@Laurarium i know, but i still don't like it. I beat on my handles and it rips. Operator error- but it isnt a concern with full tang and it is with res'c
@ It split?! that is quite unexpected.
Very interesting, great video.
Jacob, the original (pre 2002) INFI was analyzed, and tough it was in the “chipper steel” family, it contained Nitrogen and Cobalt, it was not a readily available steel. Original INFI did appear to be a proprietary steel.
I had forgotten about the Cobalt but I had heard about the nickle. Fwiw as I understand it both a8 and a8mod have been chipper steels.
Anyways, I think it's good stuff.
@@Thepreppersbunkeroutdoors
Cobalt (Co) would be a very odd addition in a steel designed with high toughness in mind as it decreases toughness.
Co is added to HSS because it increases tempering back resistance so tools (drill bits, end mills, etc.) stay hard and sharp even at relatively elevated operating temperatures.
@@S.Vallieres agreed.
Good job brother
Hey, he made a Tom Brown Tracker!😅
@@bruceleroy8063 🤣
There is more to a knife that steel... normalization, heat treat, temper, blade grind and edge geometry. Claiming you have the best is foolish hats off to Joe for taking blades to the limit and beyond.
Just from my time watching Busse on the Bladeforums. The whole model is a knife flipping community. Busse makes a limited number of a model, in which they almost never reproduce. People buy them up and sit on them, unused. Then after enough time, resell them at a jacked up price.
I still have a few Busse knives, I like them. I really don’t care about what the metal is, other than does it rust. My favorite knives are made from A2, so,,,😂
I think that is a popular side of this whole thing- but I think it's kind of a good thing.
Having a strong secondary market i think is a sign of successful business.
It's amazing what Busse is doing, the amount of traction and attention they still get, that's for sure!
what a crazy, awesome collab
I bought a knife clone of Dog soldier 6 in A8 from a small manufacturer i love the knife. The steel is very good for my use.
I like it so much ive been thinking about using that steel to make another knife.
I also believe the most important thing about buying something as expensive as a busse is how they treat you when you do find a problem. Ive heard nothing but good from Busse. But that's just hearsay i have no experience either way.
I don't buy very expensive knives never found a reason.
Was it A8 or A8 mod?
Either way I do wish it was used more often!
@Thepreppersbunkeroutdoors A8 is what's on the blade. Really holding up great.
@richardhenry1969 Heck yeah!
Question is are the Busse knives worth $500-$600 bucks?????
@jamesnelson1443 worth is very subjective to the individual, their financial status, and the intended use.
Is any knife worth much if it spends its life in a drawer? No.
Is any knife expensive per use if it's used every day? Also no.
So it depends. If Busse did better edges all the time I would likely however answer yes.
Worth is not subjective. @@Thepreppersbunkeroutdoors
@@Thepreppersbunkeroutdoors that is a very fair assessment...
I dont believe they are; ive had a few over the last 15 year,still have 1 and for most use you wouldnt notice much difference between INFI or any other well made knife when it comes to use in the woods.
@ thx for replying
I’m still waiting on the knockoff Busse. Been waiting for a while.
Yeah i wanted to have it done before now tbh.
Somebody is pissed off at BF
Was BF even mention here besides the quotes from BF people?
Lol
@@Thepreppersbunkeroutdoors `That Joe clip was linked on BF then immediately taken down by the mods how many times?
It was one of the worst cases of wack a mole that i have ever seen.
Oh gotcha. I thought you were talking about me being mad at bf.
Which i am, but 🤷♂️
Not at the busse section though.
As I understand it the busse mods mostly just condensed threads or deleted repeats. The original i am sure is still up.
Infi is similiar to a few steels. I know what the actual grade is, and the manufacturer as well. Its not an A series. Close. It is a tool steel however. I will say that cryo treatment is important in heat treating this steel as well for toughness. The steel is used in heavy industry. Aka mining and drilling. It is. Modified from the original batch composition for more flex doing away with the plasticity yeild of this seel being lower at softer rc scale. A series and S series are pretty similiar between manufacturers but a few alloying elements make a huge difference in them. You cant always look at grains and alloy banding on steels, a composition test is best but still varies between batches a bit. I have two shipments of w2, same manufacturer, same lot, different batch, one alloy bands with hamons and the other is clean and clear on the hamons. All depends on the day and the guy in charge of batch samples. You are getting close though! Keep up the effort.
I just looked at the composition of S1- S7 with S4 i think it was being a mining steel.
None were close due to the tested steels high levels of cr and it's lack of silicone or nickle among other compositional problems.
I would be hugely interested of course in knowing more.
"T from cold steel has a tramp stamp tattoo of Joe ... " Confucius say
🤣
Marlboro 😊😊
That blade may require some slight sharpening 😅😅😅
🤣🤣🤣
Hi Jacob,
may I ask you why there is an arrow from Z-Tuff to A8Mod and 3V on the graph at 9:30? This arrow is not on the original graph...
BTW, the toughest high alloy steels suitable for knifemaking (which can easily reach 60-62 HRC) are Z-Tuff/CD1 and CPM-1V.
I don't understand why Busse has never switched to one of these as using a proprietary name (INFI) and never mentioning any chemical composition gives the possibility to change steel without saying anything or admiting a better choice has become available... while keeping on with the same marketing and hype (Transversion Wave Tempering process likely doesn't even exist; I asked THE metallurgist and he had never heard about it until I asked)...
Back in 2003, I had email discussions with Tom Johanning (using A8Mod) and Jerry Hossom (well connected in the knifemaking industry and using 3V) and both told me INFI is A8Mod.
15:18 ---> The one who is actually qualified to properly evaluate if this particular Busse knife is defective is THE metallurgist.
Nevertheless, A8Mod is a very good heavy duty high alloy knife steel, but the three above mentioned ones are the best and allow thinner more acute edges that cut better.
I added the arrow to help people find the a8 mod more quickly on the chart. It is only intended to point at a8 mod.
While looking at ztuff, cd1, and cpm 1v I purchased some 1v for adventurecrafts but I think I'm moving forward with ztuff.
I am working with dry creek forge to make 3 identical knives in 15n20, 8670, and ztuff to test edge retention and toughness. I preferred cd1 and ztuff due to nickle content and I think ztuff is going to be easier for me to obtain.
@Thepreppersbunkeroutdoors
15N20 vs 8670 vs Z-Tuff will be a really interesting comparison provided the methodology is rigorous. I look foward to watching the video.
Z-Tuff/CD1 have a much better corrosion resistance which may be interesting in an outdoor knife.
15N20 and 8670 are certainly easier to field sharpen with basic stones though.
BTW, in my last post I didn't mention the name of THE metallurgist we now all know and respect because my comments are often deleted when I refer to him or his website. Don’t know why and it's too bad. His work is priceless to the knife community.
That's weird that your comments get deleted when you mention him!
He is generally my go to and I actually went to him before making this video just to confirm/ verify/ correct my findings.
Not all steel in the same categorization have the same property.
By the way, as famous or renowned as larrin is among the community, he is not the only metallurgist.
It doesn’t mean something doesn’t exist just because he did not hear about it before.
True!
However other metallirgists don't spend the time and resources that Larrin does only to turn around and give that info away for free.
That's what sets Larrin apart, and that is what imho has revolutionized the entire industry.
Don’t ride someone’s coat tail to get views, be original. Be you.
You are trying to hard to be offensive.
If you're going to put forth the effort at least do it decently.
i asked him to make a vid about that bro!
What a fucking intro with the splits
Ah crap! I have two to sell. I doubt they will now. 🤦🏻♂️
@@ulbushcrafting6592 i wouldn't worry about it, I think the Busse economy is just fine.
Busse names are easy: "PORK!!!!!".
Please publish the warranty claim email chain/call.
PS are sure Joe didn't trash the temper sharpening?
He didn't sharpen any of the Busse's, or any of the knives as a whole, he has tested unless i am mistaken.
@@Thepreppersbunkeroutdoors never sharpend a blade in my life!!!
not the first who breake an buss in infi steel
Never said or inferred that he was.
It's work hardened after the abuse 😂.
🤣
Why is the video dubbed in Italian?
That would have to do with settings on your end.
That was a bit lukewarm, wasn't it?
I mean there wasn't anything discovered that wasn't lukewarm so 🤷♂️
Bro you are late for the party! It was over about 1 year ago.
@@Laurarium Looks like the party is going just fine to me 🤷♂️
Knives should not have fullers!! Same with swords!!
Why?
Objectively, you're just wrong lol.
A well made and located fuller does three things on a given stock thickness:
1) decreases weight
2) decreases brute/absolute strength
BUT because it decreases weight more than it decreases strength, it
3) increases relative strength / strength to weight ratio.
Contrary to the popular belief, it does NOT stiffen a blade. What stiffens a blade is the use of thicker stock which is then lightened by the fuller.
A fuller allows the use of thicker stock which would otherwise be too heavy.
Nathan Carothers and Dan Keffeler make among the highest performance knives in the world and often fuller their big blades.
@ good explanation of the use of fullers. Thx
I have owned a ton of busse's. Infin is shit compared to modern steel. Total gimmick and a cult.
Kinda feel duped that INFI is a fancy name for well heat treated A8mod; just like Carbon V from Cold Steel turned out to be a well heat treated 1095 w chromium and vandium ,or 1095 cro van, camillus 0170-6 .In a way its a marketing scheme to make something sound more scarce or exotic than it really is.
I’d like to hear your experience
I don't think A8 Mod is $#it and I don't even dislike it. I am pretty impressed with mine overall.
Carbon V was more misleading I believe as it was also at some point I believe tied to 52100 and a few other steels.
Branding a steel should not mean just getting whatever tough steel you can get cheap and using a universal, generic name for it-
I don't think that is the case with INFI. INFI has changed a few times but for a LONG time now I think it has been consistently A8 Mod which I think is an awesome and underutilized steel.
@Laurarium I was a Busse nut for many years. I bought some of the largest, most expensive, Busses made, and took them into woods and beat the hell put of them - actually used them - which most busse folks don't do. There is a lot of coolaid drinking with infi steel.
@@stephenpatton8690 I think many of them do use their knives. anyways, what I am curious is what kind of failure did you see?
Nothing like a grown man playing dress-up
@@MichaelSquares who's playing dress up? Lol
Shame. Missing tik tok
test? absolute YT crap makes JX. zero value for the tool knife