My dad used to say that fun when he was young was fast cars and loose women. Before he died, fun was talking about what joints and muscles didn't hurt. Ha. Looks like you have found something else (besides fast cars and loose women) to have fun with. And here I am sitting and watching (3 videos in a row about triangles, metrology and machining). Ah the fruits of growing older. For me (home shop learning/budding machine student) this was a great eye opener as to the litany of considerations when working with flat surfaces, angles and edges. Nicely done sir. Thank you.
Tom, Excellent training! I’ve been your UA-cam apprentice for a while now. I finally got myself connected so I can interact with you and some of my other favorite UA-cam mentors i.e. Keith Fenner, Tubalcain, Adam Booth, John Doubleboost, etc. Your superb instruction is greatly appreciated. Kind Regards, Brad
Hey Mr and Mrs Ox Tool, Happy Easter!! Hope you guys have a good day. Tom, again nice show and demonstration of that close tolerance inspection. You just can't beat them awesome angles from Stan.... Weld burns and all!! Looking forward to Meatloaf. Talk to you soon. Adam
You Da Man Tom! Your humor is always enjoyable and watching someone with the knowledge and experience really makes things much easier to understand than trying to read or just looking at pictures. Thanks for sharing! Ray
always a good morning when I can learn something over my cup *ahem* cups *ahem* of coffee. always interesting to see your set ups. i really appreciate how you'll do similar processes while using different set ups and tricks.
Thanks Tom! We had to make two 30 deg angle plates in my machine technology class today and your video was more informative and helpful than the teachers actual demo:-) Thanks again for your great and informative videos!
oxtoolco Morning Tom, I'm currently attending Fullerton college, they offer a range of courses based around the machine trade, but I can see why most schools have dropped it. Out of 19 students to start the class, at our 14th week, we have 9 students remaining and only 5 of us actually work on making projects. Thanks again Tom for all the time you put into teaching this amazing trade. Have a good day ay!
Tom, not related to this video but one of your prior videos showed me a tip that I used today. I have a wanabee Kurt vise and my part would not fit in it. You showed moving the vise jaws to the front and back of the vise. By golly my vise has the threaded holes to do the same thing! I was excited about that as it saved me a lot of time. Thanks much for your videos, I have learned so much from yours and others. My evenings are spent watching You Tube videos, no TV for me. Keep up the good work.
interesting project Tom, thanks for putting it up...there's machine work and then there is tool making machine work and they are different animals altogether...thanks as always I've learned so much from you, Fenner, Adam etc, cheers fellows!!! take care...
And not once did you mention the son of the squaw of the other two hides.... I've been watching folks using granite surface plates for a while now, and some of the things I've seen them do make me wonder about what's ok and what will eventually ruin the plate for it's intended purpose. I'd be interested in a segment sometime on what you should and shouldn't do on a granite surface plate. What materials to keep away from it, how to maintain it, how to clean it, etc. one of these days I'll be getting one. And I'd hate t do something stupid and ruin it. It won't be as big or accurate as yours, but I'd still like to keep it in good shape. Thanks for the fun and educational video. Precision is a fussy thing for sure! -- Mike
Hey Mike, The sad truth is you really need two. One for those questionable practices that need to happen and another you protect and maintain as a reference standard for measuring. It also depends how much fussy work you are doing. The granite wears slowly so It takes years to make a noticeable difference. Keeping them clean is a great place to start. Cheers, Tom
Reasonably good tolerances are not terribly hard with a good mill and some careful setup. My question, and of course I have one, would be: Why not stick the indicator on the base and use the knee to align the part vertically. Wouldn't using the quill be subject to possible rotation skewing the reading? This is the technique I used when making some angle plates a few weeks back as I didn't trust the quill to stay put. Of course now that I have a surface plate I have to check them...lol Colin
Hi Colin, Lots of folks poo poo the quill. If your head is trammed then you should get similar results to using the knee movement for indicating. Its fitted to the bore quite well and still has a good bit up inside when extended. In particular for no force indicating. Try putting an indicator on your table from the column and pull on the table one way or another. Kind of surprising you can do anything with that kind of movement. Cheers, Tom
Hi Tom, Those aluminum squares cost $200 to make and, probably in 5 seconds or less in a welding shop they will be worth no more than around 50 cents a pound. Good metrology is fun but a little on the expansive side, just for that granite angle you have to plunge deep into your pocket. If you can't measure it, what is the purpose? Very well explained as usual. Thanks Tom, Pierre
Hi Alastair, Its my own creation. Check out my video called "Noga indicol marriage" It combines two commercial parts to make a very functional test indicator holder. Cheers, Tom
Hi John, These kind of small errors are hard to track down sources on. This is why you check everything when measuring to close limits. Couldn't say where it came from. Cheers, Tom
Hi Teun, Not really. Most guys turn a disc then take a section out of it for the short arc segment. Smooth and hard are the needed qualities. I used tempered spring stock for mine. Cheers, Tom
Good work. The only issue I noticed was when you were indicating the part in the mill. The angle of the indicator looked steep. Interapids want about a 12 degree contact angle to be accurate. It should say it the manual for the indicator.
+Kenneth Miles Hey Kenneth, I was not measuring with the indicator just comparing. If you remember it was good enough to get me within a couple tenths on the final product. You are correct that cosine error plays a part if you are using the test indicator for an actual measurement. In this case it was comparative and I was looking for a null reading. Thanks for the comment, Cheers, Tom
It's kind of scary. I would have to say that because of you, Adam Booth, and Keith Fenner, I am now the most accurate person in my shop. I have been learning a ton from watching you guys.
SBBlacksmith Yikes, blacksmiths with test indicators. What a scary thought. Gage blocks to space the pickets on a railing. A shiver went down your bosses spine just then. Cheers, Tom
Hi Wankel, You are correct. That's why I only use the one plate for those kinds of lapping operations. I have three granite plates in the shop. cheers, Tom
really interesting tom, havnt seen you making anything lately hint hint, think you should start that x / y plasma cutting table project like keih's cheers
Hey Jon, Been spending some quality time on the computer doing design. Getting ready for a couple thousand pound steel order for a "little" job. Plasma table is waaaaay down the list. cheers, Tom
Another fine didactic video, Tom! ; ) There's a lot of useful information to be gleaned from those few minutes you shared. Thanks! I suggest you sign those with your pneumatic pencil and send them back to Shadon. (Don't forget to initial and date the calibration sticker. : D )
Hi Richard, Calibration sticker. There is a good idea. I was going to send them back for re-engraving or as reference standards for Stan's "Stangles" Cheers, Tom
It's always the same though, you go to all that trouble and your very next job you need a 36.12.18/53.47.42 square with a variable corrugated hypotenuse and you just don't have one to hand. Great demonstration :)
Hey Steve, Corrugated Hypotenuse. Now I got a laugh out of that technical specification. Note on drawing, "All Hypotenii will be corrugated mean peak to valley of 500 micro-inches or better" Or the ANSI Y14.5 spec, ~~~~~~~~500 Cheers, Tom
Been planning to make thin sinebar using my WEDM, now you got me CAD this and plans to get 6mm tool steel to make some of these. Anybody interested? What length would you guys need, my plan is 100mm.
Hey Joe, Let me know if you want closeups or any details of the one I have. Sounds like a great project. Keep me in the angle, I mean loop. Make the heel sit as low toward the roll radius as possible. They almost can't be too short for vise work. Cheers, Tom
Another great video, no surprise there. How about branching out to some gunsmith subjects. I won't suggest what since you probably know 100% more about that than I do. Thanks for the work on the video and please keep it up.
Hi Cerebus, Gunsmithing is an interesting subject. I have not done much of it personally. We had a gunsmith at the shop I ran who got half the shop building their own Mauser based custom rifles at night. I was real close to doing a .375 H&H for myself. Cheers, Tom
Hi Jesse, Well I was feeling guilty about polishing a cannon ball as it was. Adding lips and would have made a pigs ear into a golden aluminum crown. Cheers, Tom
Hey Tom... Ok...throw my name under the bus.,,, my attorney Perry Mason will be contacting you and know that he has never lost a case....lol...ok..ok..you saw error and my name is in your head, I understand....the life of a grasshopper! Very enjoyable lesson, I wish you would have touched on how you would get both blocks to exact similar dimensions while you were adjusting square and angle. Chuck
Hey Chuck, Well that's when it starts to get hard. Hitting geometry and size on a part to very close limits is one of the tricky things there is to do. Talk to you soon. Cheers, Tom
Good method IF the mill is dead nuts in tram!! I always have to check that in my shop.... you never know if some idiot has knocked it all out of whack running a huge dull end mill in a freeking Bridgeport........
Hey Gent, We call them the pixies. They come in at night and play mischief with everybody's jobs. Hey that was perfect when I went home last night. Who messed with my job? Cheers, Tom
Tom, To my practiced eye, those were meant to be 37/53 degree triangles... So, the whole exercise is a failure. Frank (who has made many, MANY wrong assumptions)
My dad used to say that fun when he was young was fast cars and loose women. Before he died, fun was talking about what joints and muscles didn't hurt. Ha. Looks like you have found something else (besides fast cars and loose women) to have fun with. And here I am sitting and watching (3 videos in a row about triangles, metrology and machining). Ah the fruits of growing older.
For me (home shop learning/budding machine student) this was a great eye opener as to the litany of considerations when working with flat surfaces, angles and edges. Nicely done sir. Thank you.
Tom,
Excellent training! I’ve been your UA-cam apprentice for a while now. I finally got myself connected so I can interact with you and some of my other favorite UA-cam mentors i.e. Keith Fenner, Tubalcain, Adam Booth, John Doubleboost, etc. Your superb instruction is greatly appreciated.
Kind Regards,
Brad
Hey Mr and Mrs Ox Tool, Happy Easter!! Hope you guys have a good day.
Tom, again nice show and demonstration of that close tolerance inspection. You just can't beat them awesome angles from Stan.... Weld burns and all!!
Looking forward to Meatloaf.
Talk to you soon.
Adam
Hey Adam,
I need to send them back to the manufacturer for re-engraving. I ate the name right off them.
Talk to you soon.
Tom
You Da Man Tom!
Your humor is always enjoyable and watching someone with the knowledge and experience really makes things much easier to understand than trying to read or just looking at pictures.
Thanks for sharing!
Ray
Hey Ray,
Nice talking to you today. Give the pup a scritch for me.
Cheers,
Tom
This exercise clearly illustrates why quality layout and setup tools aren't inexpensive. Thanks, Tom, for the educational video!
Hey Knocker,
I can say that none of the tools used in this video has been within a hundred yards of a Harbor Fright store.
Cheers,
Tom
always a good morning when I can learn something over my cup *ahem* cups *ahem* of coffee. always interesting to see your set ups. i really appreciate how you'll do similar processes while using different set ups and tricks.
Hey Ryan,
Don't worry. I think your boss is a subscriber as well........
Cheers,
Tom
Thanks Tom!
We had to make two 30 deg angle plates in my machine technology class today and your video was more informative and helpful than the teachers actual demo:-)
Thanks again for your great and informative videos!
Hey GB,
Thanks for the comment. Where are you taking machine technology class? Not too many programs running in the US anymore.
Cheers,
Tom
oxtoolco Morning Tom,
I'm currently attending Fullerton college, they offer a range of courses based around the machine trade, but I can see why most schools have dropped it.
Out of 19 students to start the class, at our 14th week, we have 9 students remaining and only 5 of us actually work on making projects.
Thanks again Tom for all the time you put into teaching this amazing trade.
Have a good day ay!
Tom, not related to this video but one of your prior videos showed me a tip that I used today. I have a wanabee Kurt vise and my part would not fit in it. You showed moving the vise jaws to the front and back of the vise. By golly my vise has the threaded holes to do the same thing! I was excited about that as it saved me a lot of time. Thanks much for your videos, I have learned so much from yours and others. My evenings are spent watching You Tube videos, no TV for me. Keep up the good work.
Hi David,
Thanks for the comment and sharing your experience. I love to hear that somebody got a new tool for their personal toolkit.
Cheers,
Tom
Great work Tom. Still can't see the dial reading, at all. But we will take your word for it. Nice work. Thanks.
Hey Randy,
I'm ordering a filter adapter and polarizer to try out. Thanks for the feedback.
Cheers,
Tom
Trying to think of a use for heat sink 60/30's .. hmmm .. fun vid, enjoyed it very much.
Stan
Hey Stan,
I think I need to send them back for "Re-engraving" with the needed recalibration afterward of course.
Cheers,
Tom
Wow! We had all that stuff at Beretta, and you in your home shop got a beyond inspection grade granite table for free!
interesting project Tom, thanks for putting it up...there's machine work and then there is tool making machine work and they are different animals altogether...thanks as always I've learned so much from you, Fenner, Adam etc, cheers fellows!!! take care...
Hi Paul,
Thanks for the comment. Glad you enjoyed the series. I had fun doing it myself.
Cheers,
Tom
oxtoolco
Tom ?...what is best technique to remove cosmoline...?
Hey Paul,
WD-40 soak and some elbow grease. Charcoal lighter fluid works as well.
Cheers,
Tom
oxtoolco
Thanks T...
Tom,
I always learn something from your videos. Thanks for sharing!
Hi Herb,
Thanks for the comment. That Sharp of yours is ready and waiting.
Cheers,
Tom
Use Wd-40 when "lapping" with sand paper on the plate, keeps the paper from clogging and gives a much better finish
Just watched the three parts. IMO, the smaller Lixie is the perfect hammer for this. I'd love one of Stan's squares.
And not once did you mention the son of the squaw of the other two hides....
I've been watching folks using granite surface plates for a while now, and some of the things I've seen them do make me wonder about what's ok and what will eventually ruin the plate for it's intended purpose. I'd be interested in a segment sometime on what you should and shouldn't do on a granite surface plate. What materials to keep away from it, how to maintain it, how to clean it, etc. one of these days I'll be getting one. And I'd hate t do something stupid and ruin it. It won't be as big or accurate as yours, but I'd still like to keep it in good shape.
Thanks for the fun and educational video. Precision is a fussy thing for sure!
-- Mike
Hey Mike,
The sad truth is you really need two. One for those questionable practices that need to happen and another you protect and maintain as a reference standard for measuring. It also depends how much fussy work you are doing. The granite wears slowly so It takes years to make a noticeable difference. Keeping them clean is a great place to start.
Cheers,
Tom
Reasonably good tolerances are not terribly hard with a good mill and some careful setup.
My question, and of course I have one, would be:
Why not stick the indicator on the base and use the knee to align the part vertically. Wouldn't using the quill be subject to possible rotation skewing the reading? This is the technique I used when making some angle plates a few weeks back as I didn't trust the quill to stay put. Of course now that I have a surface plate I have to check them...lol
Colin
Hi Colin,
Lots of folks poo poo the quill. If your head is trammed then you should get similar results to using the knee movement for indicating. Its fitted to the bore quite well and still has a good bit up inside when extended. In particular for no force indicating. Try putting an indicator on your table from the column and pull on the table one way or another. Kind of surprising you can do anything with that kind of movement.
Cheers,
Tom
5:06 It looks like there is a plumbing street elbow on your bandsaw, what would that have been for? lube ?
Hi Rusty,
The fitting is for coolant. Mine does not have a coolant pump but it was a common Doall option.
Cheers,
Tom
Hi Tom,
Those aluminum squares cost $200 to make and, probably in 5 seconds or less in a welding shop they will be worth no more than around 50 cents a pound.
Good metrology is fun but a little on the expansive side, just for that granite angle you have to plunge deep into your pocket. If you can't measure it, what is the purpose?
Very well explained as usual.
Thanks Tom,
Pierre
Hi Pierre,
$200 dollars? Man am I a cheap date.
Cheers,
Tom
Hi Tom,
OK I.ll give you $300 but shave your legs first....!
Cheers,
Pierre
Ox what was the indicator holder you used on the mill spindle around 32:10?
Hi Alastair,
Its my own creation. Check out my video called "Noga indicol marriage" It combines two commercial parts to make a very functional test indicator holder.
Cheers,
Tom
Hey Tom,
I always knew you were a "square" shooter. I guess this video proves it! Thanks for the video.
Regards,
Oxen Dave
Hey Dave,
Just trying to keep it on the level.
Cheers,
Tom
PFG means perfectly flat ground. Obviously.
Hi Tom that got me to wondering is that 1.5 discrepancy you measured at the mill in the mill alignment or is it some other variable?
Hi John,
These kind of small errors are hard to track down sources on. This is why you check everything when measuring to close limits. Couldn't say where it came from.
Cheers,
Tom
Reminds me of the saying "polishing a turd." But seriously, I appreciate seeing how you tackled this. Thanks a lot.
Hey Berkeley,
You got that right. These don't stink too bad. Back home we call this a dairy farming job.
Cheers,
Tom
thanks for todays lesson Tom!
Happy Easter Tom !!!
Hi Danu,
Happy Easter to you as well.
Cheers,
Tom
Hi Tom
does the curved peace of steel needs to have a particular radius. I am planning to make one myself
Very worthwhile little series
thx
Teun
Hi Teun,
Not really. Most guys turn a disc then take a section out of it for the short arc segment. Smooth and hard are the needed qualities. I used tempered spring stock for mine.
Cheers,
Tom
cracking video tom keep them coming
Hey Andy,
Capital comment. Keep them coming.
Cheers,
Tom
oxtoolco
i enjoy watching the videos
Thanks Tom now I can really see how to make things square with testing equipment I suppose all these prices will go up now
Hey Terry,
Buy now. Its only going to get worse. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
I like the way you have fun,, Thanks Tom
Good work. The only issue I noticed was when you were indicating the part in the mill. The angle of the indicator looked steep. Interapids want about a 12 degree contact angle to be accurate. It should say it the manual for the indicator.
+Kenneth Miles Hey Kenneth,
I was not measuring with the indicator just comparing. If you remember it was good enough to get me within a couple tenths on the final product. You are correct that cosine error plays a part if you are using the test indicator for an actual measurement. In this case it was comparative and I was looking for a null reading. Thanks for the comment,
Cheers,
Tom
Awesome video. Very informative.
Hey Kyle,
Thanks for the comment. Nothing molten or even red hot in this one.
Cheers,
Tom
It's kind of scary. I would have to say that because of you, Adam Booth, and Keith Fenner, I am now the most accurate person in my shop. I have been learning a ton from watching you guys.
SBBlacksmith Yikes, blacksmiths with test indicators. What a scary thought. Gage blocks to space the pickets on a railing. A shiver went down your bosses spine just then.
Cheers,
Tom
Wont the abrasive dust from the sandpaper ruin the accuracy of the surface on your surface plate?
Hi Wankel,
You are correct. That's why I only use the one plate for those kinds of lapping operations. I have three granite plates in the shop.
cheers,
Tom
Thanks Tom,
I think I am almost "squared away" now...
Ray
Hey Ray,
Sorry to back you into a hypotenuse.......
Cheers,
Tom
Tom,
Nice set up with the thin sine bar.
I like your surface plate too. What is ti rated for as far as flatness goes?
Regards,
Eric
Hi Eric,
It has a calibration sticker on it from Standridge that says 22 millionths across the plate.
Cheers,
Tom
WOW!!! I'd say that is F L A T!!
:-)
Eric
oxtoolco thats fairly flat. I dont suppose you know what kind of process/tools are used in the creation of surface plates?
really interesting tom, havnt seen you making anything lately hint hint,
think you should start that x / y plasma cutting table project like keih's
cheers
Hey Jon,
Been spending some quality time on the computer doing design. Getting ready for a couple thousand pound steel order for a "little" job. Plasma table is waaaaay down the list.
cheers,
Tom
Great series!
Another fine didactic video, Tom! ; )
There's a lot of useful information to be gleaned from those few minutes you shared.
Thanks!
I suggest you sign those with your pneumatic pencil and send them back to Shadon.
(Don't forget to initial and date the calibration sticker. : D )
Hi Richard,
Calibration sticker. There is a good idea. I was going to send them back for re-engraving or as reference standards for Stan's "Stangles"
Cheers,
Tom
It's always the same though, you go to all that trouble and your very next job you need a 36.12.18/53.47.42 square with a variable corrugated hypotenuse and you just don't have one to hand. Great demonstration :)
Hey Steve,
Corrugated Hypotenuse. Now I got a laugh out of that technical specification. Note on drawing, "All Hypotenii will be corrugated mean peak to valley of 500 micro-inches or better" Or the ANSI Y14.5 spec, ~~~~~~~~500
Cheers,
Tom
Been planning to make thin sinebar using my WEDM, now you got me CAD this and plans to get 6mm tool steel to make some of these. Anybody interested?
What length would you guys need, my plan is 100mm.
I would be interested in 2 @ 150mm to 125mm long take up most of the kurt vise. let me know on cost.
Hey Joe,
Let me know if you want closeups or any details of the one I have. Sounds like a great project. Keep me in the angle, I mean loop. Make the heel sit as low toward the roll radius as possible. They almost can't be too short for vise work.
Cheers,
Tom
And That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you make Shinola!
Hey Craig,
I found a can of Shinola shoe polish at a garage sale. I'm kicking myself for not buying it.
Cheers,
Tom
Another great video, no surprise there. How about branching out to some gunsmith subjects. I won't suggest what since you probably know 100% more about that than I do. Thanks for the work on the video and please keep it up.
Hi Cerebus,
Gunsmithing is an interesting subject. I have not done much of it personally. We had a gunsmith at the shop I ran who got half the shop building their own Mauser based custom rifles at night. I was real close to doing a .375 H&H for myself.
Cheers,
Tom
oxtoolco Interesting choice Tom. I have used a octagonal barrel .300 H&H a long time. Very nice. Always wanted the same in .375 H&H
Hi Greg,
I fell in love with the .375 H&H cartridge years ago. Its just so pleasing to the eye and accurate to boot.
Cheers,
Tom
I was hoping you were going to mill out a couple lips so they grab an edge like the other ones.
Hi Jesse,
Well I was feeling guilty about polishing a cannon ball as it was. Adding lips and would have made a pigs ear into a golden aluminum crown.
Cheers,
Tom
mr lipton we was talking about the air compressor for a refrigeration compressor Halligan142 latest video hes doing it,
Hey Turnmaster,
Thanks for the heads up. I'll go check it out.
Cheers,
Tom
Hey Tom...
Ok...throw my name under the bus.,,, my attorney Perry Mason will be contacting you and know that he has never lost a case....lol...ok..ok..you saw error and my name is in your head, I understand....the life of a grasshopper!
Very enjoyable lesson, I wish you would have touched on how you would get both blocks to exact similar dimensions while you were adjusting square and angle.
Chuck
Hey Chuck,
Well that's when it starts to get hard. Hitting geometry and size on a part to very close limits is one of the tricky things there is to do.
Talk to you soon.
Cheers,
Tom
We either said , Broken Indicator! Or Dead Nuts!
PFETOT ----- LOVE IT !!
he said kick it up and mow it off!
Good method IF the mill is dead nuts in tram!!
I always have to check that in my shop....
you never know if some idiot has knocked it all out of whack
running a huge dull end mill in a freeking Bridgeport........
Hey Gent,
We call them the pixies. They come in at night and play mischief with everybody's jobs. Hey that was perfect when I went home last night. Who messed with my job?
Cheers,
Tom
Thank, Tom. sign them" Mr Wizard's shop squares" and mail them back!!!
Hey Sam,
I'll send them back and trade for some of those spiffy heat treated ones.
Cheers,
Tom
Tom,
To my practiced eye, those were meant to be 37/53 degree triangles... So, the whole exercise is a failure.
Frank (who has made many, MANY wrong assumptions)
Hey Frank,
Shoot I was way the heck off if you're right.
Cheers,
Tom
Precisely Watson, precisely indeed! :o)
O,
or IAW MIL-TFP-41D
Eeek. Anything with MIL in it is a problem.
---Tom
Now that they are all flat and smooth they have lost all their grip!! You ruined those good setup triangles! lol
Hey Brian,
I just removed the corrugations. Now I need to send them back to Stan Inc to have them re-engraved.
Cheers,
Tom
precision hammer knocking. ok. thats enough youtube for today.