Basic Commodore Amiga Troubleshooting
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- Опубліковано 14 чер 2016
- This is a recording of Anthony Becker's "Basic Amiga Repair" class at The Vintage Computer Festival East XI in Wall, NJ on April 15, 2016. Legendary Commodore engineers Bil Herd (Commodore 8-bit machines) and Greg Berlin (A4000 designer and Amiga engineer) unexpectedly came to the class and hung out with everyone so we did very little editing of this video so you will be able to experience time with these guys as we did that day. Enjoy!
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Bill Herd, the man who formed my computing childhood and Greg Berlin the man who made my Amiga dreams in my teens :) Eventually had an A4000/060 in 1999 after some hard work. A beautiful Pagestream and Shapeshifter machine with a Picasso IV. Easily as good as any Macintosh of the day for DTP. Miss that. Seems like yesterday... I'm a proper Mac user these days but my little 1992 68000 A600 is all I need now, those beautiful ECS chips just make me smile when I paint on it and program it. Thanks Greg, your A4000 was a beaut.
Well Said Pixel Vixen! When all is said an done the 4000 is probably the best Amiga. Ah, Pagestream. I used to make the Westchester Amiga User Group newsletters with that wonderful program on my A500 and A2000
What i love is how Bil Herd sets it up. You hear him asking me about the audio capacitor just before I got to the slide about it. I watched him leave with that information without knowing why he went outside. I heard the stories many times about when he was at Commodore so I should have suspected the game was afoot. But he nailed it when he came back in with Greg Berlin. Was a great day and I am still laughing seeing it happen again even though I was there.
Bil Herd is ready to host a new season of PUNKED!
Wow... Having the guy who designed the A4000 look at your machine! Just incredible!
I know this is 7 years old, but I am resurrecting one of my old 4000s, and I got a kick out of seeing one of the guys that worked on the manufacture of the 4000s in the audience. One thing I did learn by accident, is that the sockets containing the chips can be corroded, or there is some reason that a chip is not making a complete electrical connection. I found, that rapping the top if the socketed chips with a screwdriver handle, will seat the chips enough to sometimes cause the 4000 to boot, The solution was, to remove and clean the pins in the sockets, apply deoxit, (a contact cleaner) and re-seat the chips. That solved the problem in one of my machines. It was an interesting video, and yes, those plastic retainers on the 4000 front cover are an absolute pain. I think you stated that there were three pairs of retaining clips, on my machine, there were three on the top, and four on the bottom, and one of the four was extremely difficult to get at.
Cheers, that is a good repair technique. I am about to do the same thing on my sick A500
That moment with Greg is still classic :)
Edit: watched in full, excellent insightful video as always
Yeah, could never plan something like that. A magical and hilarious moment! Thanks for watching RetroDemoScene ! -- Bill
Was great to witness it first hand and great to be able to witness it again on the internets. Thanks!
Thanks for coming to the show Walter! It is amazing that you inherited Julian's computers. He is a legend. Great meeting you and hope to see you again soon! -- Bill
Great contents here, GREAT channel, love what you guys do.
I know this is an old video, and I know very little about Amigas, but it's worth knowing that purple and green are standard fault conditions in digital video. I forget which, but one of them indicates a DAC is getting a continuous sequence of 101010101010.
"Later they'd ship the the pile without telling anybody." Classic, and explains a lot.
LOL, sure does! Thanks for watching. -- Bill
Great and awesome video! Thanks for make it and share it. Regards. Edu. I'm a huge fan of the 4K machine.
Thanks for the kind words! Glad you enjoyed it!
love it this, it so cool watching this stuff.
Thanks Brian!
Great Video🤩👍🏻Very Informative👌🏻
Brilliant, thank you very much!
SledgeFox Werd. Glad you enjoyed it!
Great job Anthony!!!
Thanks Vincent! Anthony held his own even with those 2 heavyweights in the room. It was impressive! -- Bill
The Guru Meditation
Yeap, needs guts to do it :-)
Mjurney meaby can answer this purple screen problem because he is fixing Amigas all the time.Talented guy.
Oh yeah, he is a great guy. Good idea. Thanks!
The Guru Meditation Thank you for good interview.
The moment the designer of the 4000 is revealed 😂😂😂😂😂
So classic 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
WTH!!!!! Crazy!!! This was 7 years ago and this is the first time Ive seen this. Very informative.
Unfortunately the Amiga PCB Explorer doesnt have anything on the 1000 or 2000. Anyone aware of a web site that shows the circuit path for a 1000 and 2000?
My a500 stopped recognizing the extension under the flap (new one 512 KB) after a few months of inactivity. Where can I find help (or what to check)? Thank you.
Fun video to watch with the lengdary engineers. I think Bil was in on something there regarding contacts. Have you tried contact cleaner to the connectors and card slots ? Could make a difference. Also ram slots, basically all contact surfaces should be treated.
Thanks bwack! Appreciate the kind words. The mother board needs to be re-capped as well as doing your suggestions. Thanks for the feedback and watching! -- Bill
cool video thank you
Thanks Amiga Cherished500! Glad you enjoyed!
No, a 1000 isn't just a 500 in a bigger case, per your own admission that even Kickstart had to be loaded from disk using a little BIOS from before that. Also, the 500 can be upgraded to AGA, whereas if I understand right, the 1000 can't (but correct me if necessary).
Why were some of those capacitors installed backwards?
+The Guru Meditation
So, did you get the A4000 working in the end?
I couldn't see anything in the KS disassembly which would normally set the background colour to purple, so it sounds like it could be the actual ROMs which aren't booting properly?
Possibly the IC sockets are worn / corroded, one or more ROM chips has died, or perhaps a broken track or dry join on some data / addr lines?
Have you tried an oscilloscope on the main data bus signals at all?
Very well edited, and good sound btw. ;)
I think most vids like this are better with minimal editing. I normally want to get the more "live" experience from these types of presentation.
I heard about the moment with Greg before seeing the vid, but I'd forgot about it until watching this. :p
Thanks so much Electron! Unfortunately we haven't got the 4000 working yet, but we haven't had time to work on it since this class. Really appreciate the kind words on the video. I had a microphone on Anthony but obviously wasn't expecting Bil Herd and Greg Berlin to be there (let alone contribute so much) so i had to rely on the camera mic. I was able to make it OK in post. It took a while, but at least you can understand them. Generally I like to keep our videos on the short side, but i figured this was a situation where a longer one with minimal editing was better. I think die hard Amiga fans will appreciate hearing everything Bil and Greg had to say. We also did on on the fly interview with Greg after the class which I will be posting in the near future. Thanks so much for watching! -- Bill
Any luck with the A4000 in the last four weeks?
Is the purple the same purple as in the Kickstart screen? Maybe the processor just isn't running properly (probably oscillators?). Did the machine work after the battery was removed? The battery acid often goes under the memory sockets and can destroy traces even if it's not directly visible. Recapping the board is a good idea in any case. I've got a problem with an A1200 rev. 2B which crashes when an accelerator board is installed... ;-)
You could also try cleaning the CPU connector and replacing the Kickstart ROMs. If anything fails you could also try diagnostic ROMs.
Anthony was away for work for several months so he hasn't been able to work on the machine. However it sounds like he will hold off because we might team up with Bil Herd to do a video and class for VCF about re-capping. In addition to the re-capping aspect he will try to help Anthony fix the 4000. These are excellent tips though. Greatly appreciated. We will keep you posted. -- Bill
Problem with caps on the Audio on the A4000 is that the - i connected to the ground.. problem is that + is to NEGATIVE power.. so wrong polarisation..
That silly Greg Berlin messed it all up, he he ;-) -- Bill
I no this is a old post but have you managed to get the Amiga working yet?
38:30 - did he just.. scratch his arse and then smell the fingers? Hilarious :)
Oh boy, I have to check that
@@TheGuruMeditation Come on.. he did that, didn't he? :) it makes this video even more.. unforgettable ;)
great video, very interesting and informative and i loved the "moment" lol.
my audio in my 4K has started to be a issue, not sure what's causing it as it seemed to only be a problem when playing .MOD files from the CF, but then i think it's started to do the same from floppy. not sure, but i need to have another look. anyhow, keep up the videos guys! :)
Thanks Paul! Sorry you are having audio issues. Problem is there are so many variables with these things there is no clear path. Just have to do trial and error. Hope all is well and I am coming to Poland for an Amiga party in August if that is close for you. Cheers! -- Bill
yeah, it's something i want to get sorted. i will when i get some time. do you mean AmiParty? i'm not going to AmiParty but i did get an invite. i would love to attend it's just a bit too far :(
i am (hopefully) attending the AmigaTec BBQ in Germany tho, which is on the 30th July, are you attending? cheers, Paul :)
Paul Kitching
Yes! I am going to AmiPart since my in-laws live 1 hour away. Sadly I won't be able to make it to Germany also.
I tore down my recently acquired A1200 and I was shocked to find that it had no clock battery, nor even a place to put one! I was expecting carnage after finally getting that top shielding off...I guess someone years ago ditched the battery and decided to go without it.
Not all Amigas came with a battery.
That's great. The battery only keeps the date and time anyway so it isn't that necessary. I removed the batteries from my machines and never bothered replacing them. -- Bill
changes 040 cpu board to 030 and doesn't change int/ext jumpers.. rookie mistake :D
The Amiga Manuals site has been taken off the internet in May 2019.
I think you may be swimming with Leviathans in this pond
5:00: "Cleaning the [put into motion] area"? "Effected"? Oops, it doesn't quite sound right, for some odd reason. Hmm... I wonder why....
Hey Guys, You have always been super responsive. I have a dilemma in that I had a house fire and need to store my 2 1200s away until I rebuild the house. I have upgraded these boards to the hilt adding all the mod and fixes to the boards. One had a recap done. My question is how long before an inactive Amiga may be destroyed by not powering on. I have de-smoked the boards and they look fine. I may be out of my house for 8 months+. Any recommendations of storing these beasts? Your opinion of course is invaluable as always.
Yikes Charles! So sorry about the fire. I hope everyone is OK. There really is no standard for a length of time that an Amiga can stay inactive. Many people I know didn't turn theirs on for over 10 years and they work fine. But that doesn't mean I recommend doing that. The caps are the first things to go (usually) and every Amiga needs to be recapped by now. Frequent use is good for the caps. So for the machine you had re-capped I wouldn't worry too much. The other machine is more of an issue. Try to power it up if you can, but if that is not possible there is a good chance you will be ok after 8 months. But to be sure you could always have it re-capped before you turn it on after a long rest in storage. When you do store them, I like to put them in a sealed plastic case and keep it in a clean, cool environment with little to no humidity and no direct sunlight. Of course you also want to remove the battery if you have one in there.
Thanks, Guys. Good advice. I think I can plug it in where its stored once in a while. Keep up the great videos.
I read somewhere that the battery on 3000 & 4000 keeps SCSI settings in memory, so you would lose those settings if you remove the battery, as well as the date/time.
EDIT: Since you have two A4000, why not move over some of the chips if possible, like the ROM's from the working one, or the controller/rasier cards. Can try the 030 card in the working box to see if it is alive at all.
Did you add any device to the box, i.e. something that require more power? Can the PSU cope?
You may also want to measure the PSU if it gives the required voltages on the respective pins. You can desolder surface mounted IC's with a tin desoldering "sucker" (or whatever it is called) and move them over (if you want to take the risk), but getting them back into position requires some gentle soldering, or some IC holders if you can find them for the specific chips. It may be possible to scavenge some from a broken Amiga 500.
I may be getting a 4000/030 later on if my friend will sell it to me (and if it works), just hope it never breaks if i get it.
Ichinin Thanks for this awesome info and taking the time to comment. I will pass it along to Anthony. Much appreciated
same 'Purple Screen 'issue here with a rev 8 A500+.. had battery leak damage. swapping out Agnus and rom for earlier versions shows Green, but not every time. Going to replace the Ram and check the 74 chips involved in the data path are not dead.
Oh man, good luck with the repair. Anthony still hasn't gotten to the bottom of this. Hopefully sometime soon.
FIXED! Culprit was the 74LS244 (U12) and it's tracks & pads - mostly going to U13 and some Vias. I replaced it, and patched the broken traces. The purple screen must be a wait state for Kickstart. If You drop in a 1.3 Kickstart instead of 2.x You will get the green screen warning - but not always, you still get purple sometimes. This was all caused by the leaking battery of coarse, but to the naked eye, after a cleanup and treatment, it *looked* fine. Had to use the schematic to check all the pins on U12 were going where they should have been, and only 6 of the 20 were still good. "74" chips were all over 80's tech, and some are a bit ropey at the best of times - this one had some help from the leaking battery.. :)
also, i did put the extracted 74LS244 back in the properly connected socket, and it was toast, so just repairing tracks might not be enough..
WOW, that is great news! Thanks for letting us know and for the great info. Anthony better get busy on his!
17:14 keyboard 3 blinks ehhh ! The only thing i waited for hehehe just need to find out how i fix ^3blinks wacht dog timer fail^ ☺☺
Great video thanks.
My 500+ internal disk drive is broken are they easy to swap if I buy a replacement?
Yeah, it is easy. Just some screws and 2 cables, Power and data.
@@TheGuruMeditation thanks looks like I'm getting into the loft and digging it out
@@Sc-hh7nr awesome!
Why is there a picture of Steve Jobs coming from an Amiga?
Dodgy rgb connector ? spare socket is for the fpu coprocessor
Doesn't look like it. I think a re-cap is going to happen (it needs it anyway) then go from there
Where can I buy that cap ? :)
LOL I think he got it on eBay
hope(d) so .. been trawling ebay myself with no luck so far.. If I manage to find it I will post link here :-)
cool! Good luck with your search and thanks Allan!
Why not do componet level board repair
I am not a hardware guy, but I think they were trying to identify easy fixes before resorting to that. -- Bill
I hope Anthony doesn't mind that I pick his brain a whole lot now when it comes to A4000 maintenance. :P
If you have a working 4000 I'd try swapping the known good components form that in and see what happens.
Of course, there is a slight danger that whatever the fault is, will kill the good components you put in.
Yeah, we do have a spare. Good point, but we did find a bad cap, so a re-capping is in order. Anthony is going to give it a go. Thanks so much for watching and the comment. -- Bill
43:50 hot air in action :D
That's the technical way to fix it, h aha! -- Bill
Friends, I own an Amiga 600 :) Anthony, hotair is your friend:) basic repair without soldering? I see Greg Berlin why he was so humorous :)with hotair and stick soldering station I managed to replace damaged joy ports in my Amiga, after extracting them from old PC motherboard COM ports :) And so, 12:48 I made custom expansion for A600 but it doesn't work, maybe you have some PCB diagrams for A600 1MB chip expansion? 16:18 I know the color codes, not funny if after a minute there was green or yellow screen after removing of faulty expansion... I was worried, but afterall it works ... the memory persistence of Amiga after powering off is another mystery :) 32:40 "...made in china? probably ;)" :)
Nice work Qvverty! Way to bring an Amiga back from the dead! I actually changed the title of the video to "Basic Amiga Troubleshooting" Probably should have called it that in the first place, but "Repair" was the first thing that came to mind even though it is more of a troubleshooting lecture. -- Bill
Right choice of renaming it :) I saw here Guru's meditation for the first time and that it is no void term here. :) Great job Guys, keep it running :) my A600 got "piggybacked" 1MB chip RAM mod (chips from S3 Trio VGA card, removed using hot air again :]) for memory expansion, the soldering was ambigous, but worth the stake :] many yellow and green screens until a not regretable success :D
Qvverty
Yeah, I meant to rename it earlier, but got busy and didn't. I can't change the title in the video itself. but I changed the name and the thumbnail so that should suffice. Nice work with your 600. Sounds like an adventure. I have my eyes and ears open for one. Are you interested in a Vampire 2 card for it? That looks like an amazing piece of hardware. -- Bill
I know this is an old video, but The thread below talks about it being bad ROMs. Which makes sense... The Amiga is starting to display the Kickstart screen and dies.
eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t-73255
Excellent! Thank you for this link Jerry, much appreciated!
Purple screen is not official and can be caused by bad rom.
Try Reseating the rom it may help
Will do, thanks for the tip GWCNS!
10:06 what does he say? I can't make it out :(
Greg said, "He's wrong" referring to Anthony, LOL
@@TheGuruMeditation Ohh k makes sense now! Thanks. Great moment!
@@Mirandorl it really was a priceless moment. Bil Herd says it is his favorite VCF moment which is a huge honor
@@TheGuruMeditation I can imagine, you guys must have been really happy. Its nice to see the men who were responsible for so many hours of fun I had when I was a kid playing on my Amiga 500. I am now in my 40's and trying to resurrect it, after it spent the last 15 or so years in a slightly damp place with a leaky expansion card battery :)
@@Mirandorl Oh no. I hope you get your 500 working. The good thing is that the battery is on the expansion cards as you say, so you can just pull it out and your Amiga will be OK. However on the 500+ the battery is on the mother board which is a complete disaster here in 2019
Purple screen - RESEAT THE ROMS!!!
Probably very late to the game at this point, logically you are getting the purple screen because the system has passed its hardware checks and booted to the kickstart (hence the purple screen) instead of getting the disk animation you would normally get it is trying to boot from the SCSI storage device and as a result it can see the WB install but is unable to fully read/access the data and the system hangs in an endless loop of attempts to boot from the SCSI device leaving you with just the background colour of the ROM screen.
So far for myself these situations have always been cured by re installing workbench/changing the SCSI storage disk itself (not the SCSI controller)
(afterall if the SCSI Controller wasnt functional, the disk would not attempt to boot and just leave you back at the regular kickstart landing screen)
If before you had this problem the system was functional on its primary SCSI HDD device and only started to be problematic with the introduction to the same data structure on a different device (in this case the CF Card in the adaptor) the problem could be a data table issue where the card isn't formatted properly or perhaps the SCSI to CF interface device has an issue. i would put my money on the Data on the CF card or the data table itself however a good test to this would be to insert a fresh CF card and install WB on it like a new unit from the floppy drives.
Hope this helps.
Great info! Thanks Mark. Very helpful. I will pass it on to Anthony. Believe it or not, I think he hasn't fixed it yet. -- Bill
I just said the same thing, I am later to the game. ;-)
Replies like this represent the very true spirit of Amigans. We have the world biggest sincerely unite community. We are few, but not so few, and thanks to your great job, Gurus, the truth is starting to come over. Thanks thanks thanks. Amiga and all the CBM people deserved more and yes, they still do.
Long live Amiga. Altough it SEEMS a piece of hardware, it left something inside our hearts. Not to be nostalgic but... can you think of something that did the same?
Cheers from Italy.
Is it fixed yet?
Greg Berlin is a tall @(%#@('er .. wow.
Yes, fortunately he is a gentle giant. The look on Anthony's face when he walked in was priceless. He was looking for the closest exit! -- Bill
ua-cam.com/video/tDXTCPbCvsM/v-deo.html
Came across this while researching emulation. It's interesting that during the start up, there is a screen the same colour as what you have when trying to start your a4000. Might be worth you taking a more detailed look at what is included in this set up on the emulation to see if there are any clues as to why yours does what it does. If you have not already sorted it that is. Best of luck and keep the awesome vids coming guys.
Right on. Thanks for the tip! That is really cool. We think the next step for this A4000 is a good re-capping and Anthony will take it from there. It will work again...someday! Thanks again. This video could come in handy. Much appreciated! -- Bill
You are most welcome. I had my A1200 and C64 in bits today inspecting them for recapping. They both look ok but I'm going to get them both done in the next month or two as a precaution. I've only just got them and I don't know their histories. Better safe than sorry. Be sure to put a video up if you get it sorted. Would make a good after shoot. Best of luck with it :)
Thanks, I am not a hardware expert, but from what I understand caps that are about to leak may not have obvious visual signs that they are about to leak, so like you said, better safe than sorry! I think Anthony will send his board to Acill from Amiga.org. And yes, we will post a video update of the process. Hopefully he does it soon :-)
If they are your recommendation then I will look them up also. Thanks for that. Look forward to the video :)
That is just the message board where he hangs out. His service is here: facebook.com/AcillClassics/ and you can see his work in out A1200 Upgrade video here: ua-cam.com/video/6yX5e7s_s-g/v-deo.html
But about recapping that mac guy is putting in holethrough caps and that is so wrong in so many ways. always use the same type.. Amigakit uses the correct type, but uses crappy chinacaps. better use a hotairstation and do it properly:
Caplist:
A4000:
5 SMD 22 uF 35 VDC, EEHZA1V220R 10-498-39
10 SMD 47 uF 35 VDC, EEHZA1V470P 10-498-41
1 SMD 100 uF 25 VDC, EEHZA1E101XP 10-498-36
1 SMD 10 uF 50 VDC, EEHZA1H100R 10-498-45
2 SMD 4.7 uF 35 VDC, EEEFK1V4R7R 67-239-03
2 470 uF 25 VDC, EEUFR1E471 67-239-12 (Through hole)
(Rev D Motherboard: add 2 22uF)
A4000T:
6 SMD 22 uF 35 VDC, EEHZA1V220R 10-498-39
14 SMD 47 uF 35 VDC, EEHZA1V470P 10-498-41
11 SMD 100 uF 25 VDC, EEHZA1E101XP 10-498-36
3 SMD 10 uF 50 VDC, EEHZA1H100R 10-498-45
15 SMD 4.7 uF 35 VDC, EEEFK1V4R7R 67-239-03
3 470 uF 25 VDC, EEUFR1E471 67-239-12 (Through hole)
A1200
5 SMD 22 uF 35 VDC, EEHZA1V220R 10-498-39
2 SMD 47 uF 35 VDC, EEHZA1V470P 10-498-41
4 SMD 100 uF 25 VDC, EEHZA1E101XP 10-498-36
3 SMD 10 uF 50 VDC, EEHZA1H100R 10-498-45
2 470 uF 25 VDC, EEUFR1E471 67-239-12 (Through hole)
2 1000 uF 10 VDC, EEUFR1A102L 67-239-67 (Through hole)
(A600: add one 10uF more)
CD32:
6 SMD 22 uF 35 VDC, EEHZA1V220R 10-498-39
5 SMD 47 uF 35 VDC, EEHZA1V470P 10-498-41
9 SMD 100 uF 25 VDC, EEHZA1E101XP 10-498-36
4 SMD 10 uF 50 VDC, EEHZA1H100R 10-498-45
4 SMD 4.7 uF 35 VDC, EEEFK1V4R7R 67-239-03
1 470 uF 25 VDC, EEUFR1E471 67-239-12 (Through hole)
2 1000 uF 10 VDC, EEUFR1A102L 67-239-67 (Through hole)
Wow, thanks so much for this great information Chucky. Really appreciated. Recapping is not our specialty. The Amiga community is so helpful. It is awesome to be a part of it. Thanks so much. Cheers -- Bill
NP!.. another free tool I am working on: www.diagrom.com/
ChuckyGang
WOW, that is cool! Great work Chucky. Sounds like we need to do an episode on Diagrom! -- Bill
nice. thanks for the info. there is definitely at least one bad cap in that 4000. can see evidence of the leak. so it needs a recapping. I may try to do it myself this September so that cap list will be valuable.
What makes you say he is using through holes? Bogus assumption based on the photo of the cap on his home page?
Good content, however his lack of electronics terminology is killing me....
Basic troubleshooting all I hear is 4000 4000 4000...
nobody has a 4000...
Booooooring