How to tell if your own music is any good

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  • Опубліковано 27 сер 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 101

  • @PavelSemin
    @PavelSemin 2 роки тому +224

    I think for many composers it's more common to see holes and bumps in their music, but not knowing how actually to fix them

    • @Marjuice
      @Marjuice 2 роки тому +3

      I think it's alright to have a feedback friend. Someone who can give constructive feedback.

    • @PavelSemin
      @PavelSemin 2 роки тому +13

      @@Marjuice feedback is always good, but it's usually half of the answer

    • @Marjuice
      @Marjuice 2 роки тому +3

      @@PavelSemin I use to be my own worst critic, so I think I need someone to stop me from cancelling myself and show me the way sometimes. ☺️

    • @paulxanders6498
      @paulxanders6498 2 роки тому +14

      Unfortunately, the knowledge of best practices to help fix any given issue is scattered all over the place, across countless theory books and UA-cam channels. That, I think, is the trickiest part of becoming a good composer. The less of a toolbox you've accumulated, the more iterations (listening, tweaking, relistening) it takes to fix a hole/bump.

    • @BenBerkenboschMusic
      @BenBerkenboschMusic Рік тому +1

      I personally think that finding out the "how" yourself is one of the best ways to improve. Because you are actively searching for a solution, and it's a long road, but you learn a lot. Of course it's super useful if people show you how to fix certain bumps and holes, but even then it's crucial to practice, so you can apply it yourself next time. But I definitely agree that fixing the "how" is challenging thing.

  • @deathtubemusic
    @deathtubemusic 2 роки тому +142

    It's also very hard to do this right after working on something, at least for me. Listening to the same project hundreds of times makes you lose perspective, but give it a week and it becomes much easier to figure out what works and what doesn't.

    • @ahknown2755
      @ahknown2755 2 роки тому +2

      💯

    • @nilsfrederking62
      @nilsfrederking62 Рік тому +6

      Exactly. Also you get used to a passage but want to change it and the change often initially sounds displaced because of what you expect, but once you get used to the change it works very well.

  • @gkgyver
    @gkgyver 2 роки тому +125

    "Sounds good" drives me up the wall every time 😂

    • @paulmdevenney
      @paulmdevenney 2 роки тому +5

      It's worth reflecting on whether you asked "how does it sound" before getting that answer :)

    • @joshuagodinez5867
      @joshuagodinez5867 2 роки тому +7

      Sorry. I've done that. If I hear something and I'm like "I can't think of anything that I think would need to change and I liked it" so I'll give that generic feedback. I think sending out positive vibes has its own benefit, too.

    • @paulmdevenney
      @paulmdevenney 2 роки тому

      @@joshuagodinez5867 we've all given that feedback at some point!

    • @ALF8892
      @ALF8892 2 роки тому +8

      Fam and friends say. "I like it cause it's you"

    • @HighLanderPonyYT
      @HighLanderPonyYT 2 роки тому +4

      That's when it's your turn to ask more specific questions.

  • @aidanlswadling2481
    @aidanlswadling2481 2 роки тому +9

    ngl the thing you were criticising already sounded soo good

  • @greatestartist5905
    @greatestartist5905 2 роки тому +26

    It's important to fix it until you're safisfied. Stop worrying about others. I only counted 3, Ryan counted 8. Someone may say more or less.

    • @joshuagodinez5867
      @joshuagodinez5867 2 роки тому +3

      I'm interested in your perspective on the view that some folks will mess with something endlessly and you just have to call it done at some point. If you're not satisfied, do you just scrap the work or put ii in a drawer to come back to later?

    • @Arhidilius
      @Arhidilius Рік тому +1

      Imho doing everything you can to make project work and moving on to other projects after you done it is more practical. I am no expert or professional, but when I tried to fix my projects until I am satisfied this was a disaster

  • @RemyLuciani
    @RemyLuciani 2 роки тому +3

    I like this framework. It's like asking what you want more, what you want less, very simple question but could lead to very valuable answers. Thanks for sharing!

  • @Pingoping
    @Pingoping 2 роки тому +15

    This is also kind of an experience thing. When I listen to some of the first things I wrote I can point out so many “bumps and gaps” as you call them but for my newer music it’s a lot harder

    • @bluejay9638
      @bluejay9638 Рік тому

      Because to an extent, that's not really your music any more. Like yea, but your style is completely different now. You're not the same person. It's easy to point out things that other people make but finding it in your own current music is much harded

  • @luriastars
    @luriastars 2 роки тому +27

    The piece at the very start, it's not bad by any means, and yes the hit at the 01:00 mark is quite sudden, but a lot of it I think comes out from the metacontext. I didn't know if I was listening to the beginning of something or just the middle section of a larger composition, the ostinato at the start with repetitive orchestration made me think that there were previous sections that would give that motif more weight; I can see it as the middle of something in the manner of an interlude where everything suddenly it's waiting for action due to little forward motion. I can totally see it being used in a Shadow of the Colossus battle soundtrack if one were to add divisi on the violins on the 2nd part of each repetition making the total riff 8 bars long (i think) and doing the transition with a percussion crescendo and the strings going in 16ths the last bars before the change.
    Idk, I woke up shitty, I really liked it tho.

    • @flajsic6340
      @flajsic6340 Рік тому +1

      Yes 🗿

    • @GlaceonStudios
      @GlaceonStudios 11 місяців тому

      Ah! So what you're imagining is, say, like, the development section of a sonata, possibly? That kinda makes sense.

  • @Eric_Armstrong
    @Eric_Armstrong 2 роки тому +16

    As another poster has already observed, much of this is subjective. What one person decides is a "bump" or "hole" in the composition, another will see as dynamics that give the piece more interest and individuality. From my perspective, individuality is a higher hurdle to leap. Certainly, while ironing out those (perceived) bumps and holes may give a more homogenous, and workman-like product, what is it that sets your music apart from the thousands of other media composers who do exactly the same thing at the same standard or better? What is it that makes your music unique?

    • @David-zy1lr
      @David-zy1lr Рік тому +2

      Agreed tbh. A lot of jazz can be seen as UTILIZING bumps to create intriguing progressions

  • @vgmbard3136
    @vgmbard3136 2 роки тому +5

    You always have the best tips and topics for beginner composers. You have a great teaching style as well.

  • @aarons1972
    @aarons1972 Рік тому +4

    Thank you, Ryan. I'm SO glad I watched this. I'm working on piece right now that I believe has significantly improved using this self-critique method. I think for me I have a tendency to just "leave well-enough alone" instead of listening to the inner voice that says, "It could be better." I say, save your work as a new version and start experimenting!

  • @AllanKoayTC
    @AllanKoayTC Рік тому +1

    an important thing i've learned over time and mistakes, is that if something doesn't sit right with you, FIX IT. never say "Nah, it'll be OK."
    it will NEVER be OK. and worst of all, it will come back to haunt you.

  • @xenoriki251
    @xenoriki251 2 роки тому +21

    Sounds like Wade gave you inspiration for this video subject.
    I'm always amazed at how you tackle various subjects and always make them so digest! keep up the good work ! 👍
    I'm not sure i agree with every bump/gap you pointed out : i felt like the sudden increase in loudness that you called mix issue was interesting and i liked it actually🤔.
    I guess bumps and gaps can be at least a little bit subjective and there can be a very thin line between accidents and intentional surprise elements

  • @RyanLeach
    @RyanLeach  2 роки тому +3

    🥳 My new course Pillars of Composition is out now! 20% during the first few weeks of launch: tinyurl.com/pillarsofcomposition

    • @mbaldwinlobue
      @mbaldwinlobue 2 роки тому +1

      I highly recommend the course! It was exactly what I was looking for even as a complete beginner and yeah I have some homework to do but using the course as a guide/roadmap on where to dive deeper was part of the point for me so for anyone reading this...you should go check it out!

  • @seth6string
    @seth6string Рік тому

    I admire you for putting your own neck on the chopping block with an old piece you're maybe not too enthusiastic about anymore.

  • @YourLastBreaths
    @YourLastBreaths 2 роки тому +4

    Thank you for all this content, it helps me a lot ! You really give me inspiration with your videos, please keep going ! :D

  • @fal_pal_
    @fal_pal_ 2 роки тому +4

    Fantastic perspective, I will definitely be mulling this over as I listen to music in the near future. Something I'd add to the advice at the end about actually presenting the feedback is to pose your observations as questions wherever possible (ex: The trumpets come in out of nowhere, how can they be introduced as part of the ensemble?), as it gives a constructive path forward rather than a takedown of the piece. Also, emphasizing existing strengths can serve as a useful grounding tool for suggestions (ex: There are several spots where the dynamics swell very nicely in this piece; can this technique be applied to the sudden trumpet introduction?).

  • @Dorafjol
    @Dorafjol 2 роки тому +4

    I'm a bumpy one. I lean towards over-engineering my pieces. Mostly that's a part of my style; changing things up and introducing surprising elements, but very often I notice in retrospect that I don't give my sections a chance to breathe. This is a nice way to look at your piece in a more step-by-step process. I'll need to better identify the bumps, since gaps always scream the loudest to my ears.
    Thank you.

  • @uffevonlauterbach
    @uffevonlauterbach 2 роки тому +1

    Great video! I've ran into some of these bumps and gaps myself. I'll keep this in mind the next time I'm working on a track.

  • @ivanl.8201
    @ivanl.8201 Рік тому +1

    I wonder if a bump caused by one instrument ,such as a trumpet that enters too abruptly or perhaps a bit too loudly can be tamped down by, say, a reverberating soft piano note right after, kind of like creating this back-and-forth fading down ricochet effect. I think the whole idea of really thinking hard about where the instruments belong and in what capacity and where they don't is really an awesome one. I think I will try to think more like that from now on. I was reading a chess book where the author said that talking to your pieces can sometimes really help get the idea of what's truly needed in the position, strategy and tactics-wise. I wonder if "talking" to your instruments within your composition might sort of do the same.

  • @MrKeithterrett
    @MrKeithterrett Рік тому

    Hi Ryan, When I am viewing my students work here in India, I am often at a loss to describe where it could be improved. I often say it's either a masterpiece or it's train wreck! With your golden nuggets of analysis, I am now able to critique their work plus my own. Thanks for your insights, they are always invaluable.

  • @Mazurking
    @Mazurking Рік тому

    Respect to you for showing such self-critique.

  • @BenthovenMusic
    @BenthovenMusic Місяць тому +1

    Maybe Fletcher from "Whiplash" was right when he said, “There are no two words in the English language more harmful than ‘good job'.

  • @jyotsnasrivastava6373
    @jyotsnasrivastava6373 2 роки тому +2

    I love how much thought composers put in their music. A drum beat which had like 10 seconds required to be changed because everything else changed. Meanwhile our so called music industry, pop musicians/ singers just use one drum beat as a loop for entire song and same chords progression. There are pauses but, just to play the beginning of the song once more which means loop entire thing once more. I just can't believe how much music has degraded. Modern music (using electronic sound, using artificial effects) isn't bad but, the way it is being used is really bad and concerning for future of music. Imagine you are a music student and you got trained entire life to make a music which is changing, non repetitive, unique and creative. But, you realise that all you need is a bunch of catchy chords to sustain yourself is music industry. I mean to say you need to compose out of spirits of good music to sustain yourself in music industry.

  • @anatomicallymodernhuman5175

    When I have time, I give a couple weeks between printing a composition and evaluating it. I prefer to evaluate on a different audio system.

  • @federicoz250
    @federicoz250 2 роки тому +3

    Holes and bumps are technical problems, but their absence doesn’t make the music good either. What really a composer needs besides technical ability is good taste. If you don’t have taste, your music will always sound uninteresting to others. How to teach taste? Unfortunately, you can’t.

  • @thermitty_qxr5276
    @thermitty_qxr5276 2 роки тому +1

    The thumbnail is just relatable 😭

  • @MoodScores7538
    @MoodScores7538 Рік тому

    Wow very interesting ideas here! Gaps and bumps, huh? Awesome method. Going to try this out soon. Should be very useful for ironing out “issues” in a piece.

  • @wernervannuffel2608
    @wernervannuffel2608 5 місяців тому

    This is 100% valid because it needs to fit in that medium and that particular story and EMO-atmospherics. No more, no less... just what it needs...

  • @joshuagodinez5867
    @joshuagodinez5867 2 роки тому

    Nice. After your video with the winner of your last songwriting challenge I heard that desire for specific feedback and I started listening to tracks posted on youtube (too late!) for the next challenge and trying to offer my listener-only perspective. Whether or not folks think my feedback is useful I like the idea that I'm honing the ability to evaluate my own musical ability... once I have some.

  • @peterhoglund9603
    @peterhoglund9603 2 роки тому +1

    Thank you Ryan for the videos,I'm a noob, played drums all my life then I learned a bunch of chords on guitar and wanted to know how they connected, so a year ago I watched all the theory videos I could find,cool,bought chordbot, I know ,cheese,but a great way to learn,I have songs on my channel, terrible audio,recorded of my phone,my wife likes my songs,a couple anyway.I guess my question is how do I justify buying stuff to make better music,how do I get feedback,constructive feedback that is,thanks man,Peter.

  • @mandolinic
    @mandolinic Рік тому

    Your music sounded good to me, except in one place where there was one repetition too many.
    One thing I learned from 40 years of writing computer programs is that a project is never finished - it's abandoned. There is always more you could do, but that doesn't mean you should. The real skill that comes with experience is knowing just WHEN it's the right time to stop.

  • @zephthezquirrellord
    @zephthezquirrellord 2 роки тому +1

    This is why I only share my music with my musician friends or people who actually care

  • @LeChapeauMusic
    @LeChapeauMusic 2 роки тому +3

    People who listen to my music are shocked that a kid can write orchestral music so they don't gimme actual fback, but instead they're praising me like a god.

  • @georgesalah25
    @georgesalah25 2 роки тому +1

    Really amazing. Thanks

  • @Mirvalur
    @Mirvalur 2 роки тому

    Holyyy! Ive needed this type of info for a long time..Now I can finally fix my music by myself. To some extent atleast 😬

  • @mbaldwinlobue
    @mbaldwinlobue 2 роки тому +1

    Very helpful video Ryan, as usual. A new way to think about giving feedback and what kind of feedback to ask for. You must be getting really busy with all the new subscribers! Congrats on 76K!!!! 100K is right around the corner :-) I'm hoping you do something big like Christian Henson did when you hit the milestone...maybe a course giveaway? Also, I'll put the idea here in hopes that you see it but...what about a Pillars of Composition T-shirt for your store?

  • @thejontao
    @thejontao 8 місяців тому

    I like your framework of gaps and bumps… I might borrow that. My current method is similar, but I think in terms of unjustified moments.
    Sometimes the unjustified moment needs rework itself… other times an unjustified moment requires rework either before or after the actual moment I flagged as unjustified. Sometimes even significantly before or after.

  • @rosiefay7283
    @rosiefay7283 2 роки тому

    UA-cam recommended to me a video I'd just watched. (It keeps on doing that. The algorithm has a gap.)

  • @Qermaq
    @Qermaq 2 роки тому +2

    Re: the reverb fix: consider why you added the reverb. Probably you wanted some sort of "epic" transition. So think, what would you have done if reverb was not a thing? Maybe a slow-to-faster drum fill to drive into the ending? Maybe some sort of glissando in the strings or a "pick a note" voicing in the brass?
    My overall thought - what might be best is to identify all the gaps and bumps, and then find one new thematic motif that solves them all. That's like adding gold to your weaving right there.

  • @maestro2033
    @maestro2033 5 місяців тому

    I was today years old when I found your channel 🎉

  • @markbrady7532
    @markbrady7532 2 роки тому

    Nice man. Thanks for the introduction to Belkin.

  • @ianlarsen3920
    @ianlarsen3920 2 роки тому +1

    "Reverb for days.........."
    That cracked me up.

  • @RayMusic88
    @RayMusic88 2 роки тому +1

    This will help with the piece I'm writing right now! I've hit a wall, though. I've written a melody and chords below that, but I want to spice the whole notes up. Any tips?

  • @marcotrosi
    @marcotrosi 2 роки тому

    @Ryan Leach, your video got recommended and I thought it's maybe about general song writing, so I watched it. Turns out it seems to be more about orchestral scoring. But that's okay, it's not an issue. Still interesting. BUT I think that most song writers have problems much earlier in the writing process and with the overall song structure, chord progressions, melody etc.. The issues you are listing are pretty nitpicky compared to the issues others are having. They are still valid, but on a much higher almost more professional level. What I mean is that if you would fix your "issues" then it would not change much about the song. But others have to completely re-structure their songs or re-write parts. Still, looking for gaps and bumps works on both levels, on this detailed level as you did, as well as on the overall song.

  • @amiezwag
    @amiezwag 2 роки тому

    So helpful!

  • @sergioalcantar3290
    @sergioalcantar3290 2 роки тому +1

    I must be awful, I actually like the original... alot even. I'm in trouble. Thanks for the vid.

  • @HighLanderPonyYT
    @HighLanderPonyYT 2 роки тому

    6:25 Why wouldn't one want do that? I'd rather my work be picked apart - in a constructive way - than be handled with a "Yeah, that's fine".

  • @redepsilon5
    @redepsilon5 Рік тому

    Hi Ryan, first of all, thank you for your videos, you make complex processes and concepts more logical and clearer for me in many ways, thank you. I notice that you often refer to books in your videos and was wondering if you could put together a 'novice guide to composition' reading list for people like me who are keen to learn but come from a non-traditional musical background. I have been playing guitar and bass in semi professional bands for many years and my knowledge base is growing, but I feel the need for something a bit more concrete. A few introductory books on composition and theory would be a great assist. Thanks again.

    • @RyanLeach
      @RyanLeach  Рік тому +1

      I’m actually working on something like that, A Roadmap to Becoming a Composer in 2023 or something similar. So keep an eye out sometime in the next two months. In the meantime book recommendations was my first video ever! ua-cam.com/video/eRNlnnMbwTY/v-deo.html

  • @ALF8892
    @ALF8892 2 роки тому +1

    I think your composition in the beginning had 3 gaps not 8. You might be able to fill the wholes with brass.

  • @agressiveburito9855
    @agressiveburito9855 2 роки тому

    What is the next vidéo ?

  • @peterlepahin
    @peterlepahin 2 роки тому

    I already saw the proposed video! :) I even gave it a like... so much for the algorhythm. I never watch anything twice. :)

  • @danielfaller5617
    @danielfaller5617 2 роки тому +1

    Havent watched the video yet, but half of of being a composer is the ability to recognize if it will sounds good, right?
    I mean, Beethoven could recognize that dadada damm is good, for example.

  • @OrisStories
    @OrisStories 2 роки тому

    GREAT video!

  • @wave1369
    @wave1369 12 днів тому

    where could we find these “feedback channels”

  • @DenisPuscaOfficial
    @DenisPuscaOfficial Рік тому +1

    yeah cuz that the newest video

  • @MusicByMack
    @MusicByMack 2 роки тому +1

    After critiquing songs I hear on the radio, I like to pretend someone else wrote the song I'm working on when I revise it.

  • @luxinveritate3365
    @luxinveritate3365 2 роки тому

    Would Beethoven's 3rd opening, the 2 eflats be a bump since they are a surprise and are jarring. As they should be to wake up those aristocrats. Or symphony of Psalms with its sporadic chord jabs. Tho some dissonance are ment to be harsh but would be considered bumps to some. Or the silence after the dominant chords in Tristan und s overture. Being a series of holes.

    • @RyanLeach
      @RyanLeach  2 роки тому

      Not a bump or hole if it's satisfying

  • @autisticcormorant6881
    @autisticcormorant6881 2 роки тому

    You need to do a video on the score for Arcane

  • @dinguskhan733
    @dinguskhan733 2 роки тому

    curious to know if you wrote this is a daw, because it seems like a daw was steering you to write like that

    • @RyanLeach
      @RyanLeach  2 роки тому

      It was written in DAW but also intended as a library track so fairly square on purpose

    • @dinguskhan733
      @dinguskhan733 2 роки тому

      @@RyanLeach yea it seems like it suffered from the process. i've been caught in that trap myself

  • @WizardOfArc
    @WizardOfArc 2 роки тому

    I need to go back to Belkin’s book

  • @wellimagamer8848
    @wellimagamer8848 2 роки тому

    i hear the inspiration from Harry potter music in the music at the start

  • @ivarasplund4265
    @ivarasplund4265 2 роки тому

    Nice

  • @handavid6421
    @handavid6421 2 роки тому

    I once frankly expressed my dissatisfaction and the defects I saw on a two voice piece on the internet, and the amount of people who were angry and claimed that I was just jealous, was surprising. that was the first and last feedback I gave. not ok! I guess some people still haven't got over their ressentiment, when a lot of people just have gotten over it.

  • @stephenweigel
    @stephenweigel 2 роки тому

    Bumps and holes are a whole vibe though

  • @andywellsglobaldomination
    @andywellsglobaldomination 2 роки тому

    I found your choice of example music puzzling. At best, it's throwaway soundtrack music, a fraction of the music needed for an entire movie.

    • @RyanLeach
      @RyanLeach  2 роки тому +3

      It's a library track

    • @andywellsglobaldomination
      @andywellsglobaldomination 2 роки тому

      @@RyanLeach I can't find the definition of "library track."

    • @RyanLeach
      @RyanLeach  2 роки тому +3

      @@andywellsglobaldomination Music for a production music library, which sources music to TV, advertising, etc. It makes up the majority of my income!

  • @tomsnow2872
    @tomsnow2872 2 роки тому

    Dont do this online, music is an interpersonal art that deserves to be shared in real life.

  • @ryxsenl3018
    @ryxsenl3018 Місяць тому

    reat video

  • @superblondeDotOrg
    @superblondeDotOrg Рік тому +2

    Give honest feedback on someone's work after being asked = instant enemy, because musician composers especially amateurs are emotionally immature.