To me this was a wonderful display of patience and absolute lack of ego towards the horse. Most of us would have an extremely hard time not taking the horse's reticence personally. Please try to show all sessions with this horse and maybe show us what this horse is like to ride and work with outside the round pen to explain why you are doing this. Thanks Pat and Deb and get well Deb.
Those independent thinkers or quirky horses make you work at it harder for sure. Many times that one will be your once in a lifetime horse. Those qualities are a big part of what makes a great ranch horse, trail horse, roper, etc. For a great horseman like Pat, issues like this don't crop up in training because he's always the leader. Doesn't even have to think about it. Horses read him right off as the leader. Watch a video with the owner and then watch Pat with the same horse. Pay attention to those horses in those videos. They know and you can see change in demeanor when Pat walks up to them. Many people can ride, some can even train, but true horsemen are a rare breed. Pat is a true horseman and his ilk is getting scarce. ❤️
I sure hope you are right bc I am here trying to figure out how to manage my independent, smart thinker so I can be safer. So glad I found these vids that show me to slow down and NOT TAKE IT PERSONAL :)
@@Inca1122 the slow down and not taking it personal are biggies for sure. Every now and then I get a horse that's not great with me. I'll try different things to adjust. However, if I just can't get things to work, I'll take the horse to the 70 year old trainer that's forgotten more than I'll ever know. It's always helpful to tap wisdom, but be sure it is wisdom. As you know every rail jockey has an opinion. Then we figure it out. 95% of the time it's me and I eat another slice of humble pie lol. On very rare occasions, it's that the horse is inbred with a screw loose. It does happen unfortunately. So if you have access to someone with a wealth of real knowledge and experience, take advantage of that. I would pay my friend but he won't let me. But he will take money as a donation to his church. A few years ago, one of my horses was always trying to turn or veer to the left when I wasn't asking. Frustrating! Then I realized every horse I rode was doing it. Yep it was me lol. Good luck! Your willing attitude to listen to your horse and set your ego aside is golden ❤️
@@tracyjohnson5023 thank u for replying. I am more of a greener rider with a horse that is very smart so i have been working at trying to find what works best and for sure i have NO problem admitting that 99.9% of the time it’s me. I wish i had someone to learn from where i am but unfortunately i don’t so i’m trying to grasp what i can online. I’m so green that i didnt know what a “brace” was until Pat explained it so clearly here. And oh, like you, my current issue is my horse wants to go the opposite direction when i’m in saddle. I have a mustang which by all accounts was more horse than i was needing but it’s 4 years now and we’ve made progress but not a ton bc of lack of training but i will keep doing my best for him. I think he knows that but Lord does he try me.
Man! There is a lot going on in this video! Just a single project, but relatable to any other project you can be in with a horse. Setting up/managing the situation so the horse has to search for the answer then they learn for the next time, v.s. too much pressure so the horse is not thinking and reacting to save itself. The line that separates support and pressure is such a thin one, and that is the line the perfect horseman has to stand on all the time. Good Luck out there everybody, I am still working on it.
Great ideas and awesome applications!!!! It is a true pleasure to watch you work the horse’s mind!!!! Thank you so much!!!! I’m a 100% Total and Permanent Disabled Veteran and Above Knee Amputee with a broken back (L-5 & S-1 Vertebrae). I had to sell my two horses and chose to sell my tack. I miss it so much, but I couldn’t get in the saddle these days. Now I ride my Japanese Quarter Horse (Yamaha Rhino 660) to ride the mountains. I wish you and your’s the very best!!!!
Terry dang I'm sorry you had to give up riding. Have you thought of a saddle adaptation and a smooth gaited horse with a tall mounting block or a cart horse to drive? You probably thought of it all so I definitely don't want to seem rude.
Tracy Johnson, thank you so much for your kind concerns!!!! It really touches my heart to have someone respond as you have!!!! Yes, I have thought of many different ideas. However, like Pat, I like a spirited horse and I’m so busted up, I would have to have a step built to get me high enough to where my feet were even with the stirrups to even get on a horse. Those places are few and far between in the mountains where I like to ride. Plus, I could only mount from the right side and in the mountains, you have to be able to mount from either side sometimes. I could never hike or walk out if I had to. There’s just too many obstacles for me. If it was just the loss of my leg, I’d still have my horses and be riding. My only foot is mangled badly and has a bone that keeps trying to come out of the ball of the foot. If it gets infected, I could be a double leg amputee. My knee is in bad shape, as I had to have the ACL reconstructed. I’ve worn out both my shoulders by falling on my crutches. My right one has been reconstructed and now, my left shoulder is in bad shape. I can’t lift my arm straight out to my side. I’m pretty sure it needs reconstruction. That is the most painful surgery I’ve had! I have neuropathy and nerve pain so bad, they had to implant a Spinal Cord Stimulator. If I didn’t have that and my Gabapentin, I would have ended my life long ago. My stomach now has my third hiatal hernia, where the stomach goes up through the diaphragm and into the lung area. The VA has me scheduled with the University of Utah to have a Gastric Bypass operation to fix it for good on March 6th. My foot surgery and shoulder surgery will have to come after my stomach. I’ve waited a year and a half for the stomach operation. I have to sit upright in my bed to sleep and I get two to three hours of sleep a night. I’ve been doing that for 16 months now. Yeah, if I were a horse, they would have led me down to bottom of the pasture and shot me years ago. Some days, I think I’d prefer that option, but then I take my meds and get ready for another day. Don’t get me wrong. Even with all my ailments, I still manage to have more fun than a lot of people!!!! All I have to do is go down the halls of the Salt Lake VA Hospital to see a lot of guys worse off than I am. So I know I am blessed to have what I have!!! I miss my horses terribly, but I had to give that part of my life up, until I’m on the other side. I’m sure I will have horses in Heaven!!!! So, I’m just taking a break from them now. Thank you again for your kind concerns and your suggestions are well taken!!! May the Lord bless you and yours with all the success and happiness your saddle bags can carry!!!! Have all the fun you want…. I will go make some more!!!!
My coming 10 yr old MFT mare hasn’t had regular rides and needs me to refresh our relationship each time I ride. This seems like a good way to do that. Thank you.
My husbands favorite saying is "that horse needs a job" and many times he's correct. We used to start colts and fix problem horses, but for the last few years it's mostly tune ups for trail horses or getting arena horses out on trails. The staggering popularity of the "broke ranch horse" has been great for the industry, but comes with its own set of problems as lots of people buy one for a trail horse. We're in East Tennessee and see weekend trail riders owning them. So many of these horses go from living outside 24/7 on mostly grass/hay to being up in a stall with grain and turn out. They go from being ridden most of the day, 6-7 days a week to being ridden 1-2 days a week for a few hours. The owners can't figure out why their good broke horse is broncy now, thus my husbands advice. Most of the horses are back to good once we ride them consistently and even better if the owner follows our advice to cut grain and turn them out and ride a few times a week. Maybe lunge with saddle on for a minute. However, we see some that truly do need a full time job besides riding around an arena for 30 minutes once a week with a 2 hour trail ride another day. It's a good outcome for that horse when the owner does the right thing for the horse and passes him along to a working cowboy.
So many working partners have been made pets. It’s unfair to expect them to not misbehave and manifest frustration. Even the animals know they’re here to work not just exist. Just look at young men now…same thing, too much leisure time leads to trouble.
@@tracyjohnson5023 I’m wanting to get back into working with horses again now that my son is grown and I would love to chat with you if that’s ok. Can I give you my email or phone number? I’ll try to not talk your ear off lol
Hey guys. What an interesting horse! The kind of that takes you out of your comfort zone. Don’t know Chris but I hope he’s got good timing to work with this fellow!! Another good vidéo and a lot of comments and explanations too (don’t take it personal …😂) 👋
Re people thinking they need to be "friends" with their horse... horses don't operate that way. They have a herd hierarchy, they need to know where they are in it. It's all about feeling safe and secure. If another horse gives into them, they will boss that horse and take the lead. Because that horse proved he wasn't able to lead or make decisions. But if another horse stands up and bosses them around, then that is the horse they prefer to follow and feel safer with. I see this all the time with my herd. If you remove a boss horse from the field (the leader) the others get very upset and whinny and carry on like crazy. But if the bottom ranked horse is removed, they don't care too much. They get security from whoever can take charge, be confident, and lead.
howdy Folks ! I part time cowboy, riding other folk's horses. I'm going to do this with my usual riding partner. whole lot better than throwing a halter on her, then the saddle, and demanding a good working relationship. this video calms me down ! thanks so much, you two !
He’s a strong advocate for his own cause. Lol most humans find that to be an annoyance. Some day you’ll thank God for that toughness once it’s working for you. Also agree about the tongue working. If you’ve ever been really scared, you get a strange metallic taste. That’s adrenaline. So totally agree, some times working the tongue is a good thing and others not so much.
Question: When you wrap up a session like this, how would you leave the horse? Would you turn him out? Feed him? Tie him? Leave him in the round pen? I know people have varying opinions on this but I’d like to know yours. Thanks!
You have to be true to yourself. By stopping, are you copping out and not hanging in there and teaching the horse that all he has to do is wait you out and you'll quit? Or are you stopping at a point to allow the horse to process what you are asking and picking up the next day?
You should be able to send him away and draw him to you going both directions. If you can do that and the horse comes to you centered in both eyes, you’re good!
Not all horses are the same. Some take longer to get the join up game. I would bet this horse is a good candidate to buck or bolt given the lack of trust. It will take time with this one.
There is no fear in this horse. And you should take the word Stubbornness out of your vocabulary when it comes to working with horses. This horse is simply doing what he thinks he has to do. What you’re watching is the horse holding on to his desire to maintain his role as the leader. Rather than choosing to follow the human. He is saying I will go this far but no farther. Also, this horse is extremely intelligent which is a good thing once he agrees to work for the human. Keep in mind that this horse is being ridden in between round pen sessions. He’s not dangerous, not trying to buck off his rider, or run through the bridle. His owner is trying to fix their relationship before things go too far. And that is commendable.
At what point do you decide to walk up and touch him? Is that to help build his confidence with you? My horse moves his head away avoiding me. Trying to figure out what's going on. I'll keep watching this video over and over.
If this episode had a shape it would be a spiral. You start big on the periphery of engagement and then slowly methodically move in to the centre. You found the needle in the haystack! It was fascinating to see!
Would making him go around the pen a few times before trying to catch his eye and turn in be more affective, Like making him breath harder, work harder, would that make him face up faster??
No you have to come from less pressure not more. More is too aggressive and predatory. It has to be their decision. They do not learn through fear but through understanding who leads and who follows.
@@PatnDebPuckett It was intended as a joke. I have much respect for what he does and his desire to share it so generously. Pats patience is as valuable a a lesson as the skills he teaches We don’t need to buy a carrot or a stick or a string.
What a load of absolute nonsense, more gung-ho force, horse does not want anything to do with you, lots of clichés and a frightened suspicious horse that needs to be run down to get cooperation.
A frightened horse doesn't have his tail out. He will clamp it down. This is just one thing in this video that you misinterpreted. Perhaps you would like to ask a specific question about a specific part of the video rather than making a negative comment. Then we could have a meaningful discussion. Or perhaps you would post a video showing us how you work with your own horses? Talk is cheap on a keyboard.
@@PatnDebPuckett a frightened horse does have it's tail up as, it called ready for flight. No I don't need critique as I know better. Work on connection before you start sending a horse away, otherwise you have a scared horse whose attention is somewhere else because he doesn't see you as safety.
It's a bit "loud" for very sensitive horses. Good process but high volume. Seems a bit much. Btw I study a bunch of people's training methods, this isn't new to me. Before you cue the hate, my paradigm is now how subtle can I be to elicit a response? Your horse can only be as sensitive as your first ask.
I don’t “cue hate” but I will offer an explanation. We respond to what the horse gives us. This particular horse on this particular day required a loud response. I would recommend you watch more of our videos especially those in our playlist titled Chinaco before you judge our methods.
Wow. Destroyed your entire progress at 6:00 when the horse was already following and got yourself good 20 minutes of begging the horse to join with all sorts of methods. Had to restart at 28:00, I wonder how long the cut out part was. Fair to the horse? Nah. Seen better. Show me a horse coming to you and abandoning the hay. For now I see a horse trying to cope with the adrenaline you have induced at 6:00. I am a fan of yours Pat and watch your videos since years, but this video has a bitter taste to it.
Calm down lassie. You’re sounding like a know it all who thought they just witnessed a crime. Hilarious. This guy has more years doing this than about 99% of people that have touched a horse. But hey, stay passionate… I guess.
First I’ll address the length of the complete session. I edited out around 5 minutes of video in total mostly due to my fingers being in the frame even more than the footage I left in. Having my shoulder in a sling at the same time as my gimbal finally wearing out affected my ability to hold my phone comfortably. Second, this horse is not an easy horse. He’s wildly intelligent. He is always thinking. I’m sure that a less complex horse would have followed the script you had in mind but Pie marches to his own drummer. It’s one of the reasons he’s such a great ranch horse. Give him a hard job every day and he is on it. And finally, it’s very easy to ride a bull from a barstool. You cannot see the angles that Pat was using or feel the energy he was extending toward the horse from a simple video shot by a one armed woman. Pat is a consummate horseman and he chooses to share that wisdom and experience with the public because he believes that when one has a gift, it should be shared. I would encourage you to adopt an attitude when watching a great horsemen when you see something you don’t think is right to ask a question rather than assuming you know what should or should not have happened. You are watching something from your perspective and don’t understand it.
@@ToolFan68 I have seen a lot of people who are blinded by their own experience, especially as they age - because "it has been so many years you don't dare tell me what to do!!". And the world has moved on long ago. Despite of how you allow yourself to formulate your arguments, I will stay open-minded and critical and will know when to switch to another horseman's channel - you may stay in the fanclub. Ciao.
@@PatnDebPuckett thank you for your reply. I'll ask a question: why even when Pat removed the flag completely, the horse, who was already following but presumably only afraid of the flag, still took more than 20min and a complete restart? Could it be that Pat betrayed the horse? Because that's how it looks like from my perspective.
I more or less agree with this. The horse was willingly following Pat just before the 6 minute mark. I might have called that a day right then. For the rest of the video, what I see is a horse wanting to keep Pat from getting behind it. That, to me is why it spins around on the front feet. Also, when Pat goes up and touches the horse, and then walks away, the horse moves off without any direct pressure. That tells me the horse is not comfortable, at all. Anyway, that's what I see.
Carrot stick is not a ripoff. You are doing what parelli and Monte Roberts did 25 years ago. You are just using another form of the same tool. Reason he is not walking around with you called follow up is because you are not spending time doing what's called friendly game . Rub between the eyes, neck and walk away. 100 percent he'll walk with you every where in the round pen.
To me this was a wonderful display of patience and absolute lack of ego towards the horse. Most of us would have an extremely hard time not taking the horse's reticence personally. Please try to show all sessions with this horse and maybe show us what this horse is like to ride and work with outside the round pen to explain why you are doing this. Thanks Pat and Deb and get well Deb.
I appreciate your time tested methods and how you teach us humans to be patient when working horses!
Those independent thinkers or quirky horses make you work at it harder for sure. Many times that one will be your once in a lifetime horse.
Those qualities are a big part of what makes a great ranch horse, trail horse, roper, etc.
For a great horseman like Pat, issues like this don't crop up in training because he's always the leader. Doesn't even have to think about it. Horses read him right off as the leader.
Watch a video with the owner and then watch Pat with the same horse. Pay attention to those horses in those videos. They know and you can see change in demeanor when Pat walks up to them.
Many people can ride, some can even train, but true horsemen are a rare breed. Pat is a true horseman and his ilk is getting scarce. ❤️
I sure hope you are right bc I am here trying to figure out how to manage my independent, smart thinker so I can be safer. So glad I found these vids that show me to slow down and NOT TAKE IT PERSONAL :)
@@Inca1122 the slow down and not taking it personal are biggies for sure. Every now and then I get a horse that's not great with me. I'll try different things to adjust. However, if I just can't get things to work, I'll take the horse to the 70 year old trainer that's forgotten more than I'll ever know. It's always helpful to tap wisdom, but be sure it is wisdom. As you know every rail jockey has an opinion.
Then we figure it out. 95% of the time it's me and I eat another slice of humble pie lol. On very rare occasions, it's that the horse is inbred with a screw loose. It does happen unfortunately.
So if you have access to someone with a wealth of real knowledge and experience, take advantage of that. I would pay my friend but he won't let me. But he will take money as a donation to his church.
A few years ago, one of my horses was always trying to turn or veer to the left when I wasn't asking. Frustrating! Then I realized every horse I rode was doing it. Yep it was me lol.
Good luck! Your willing attitude to listen to your horse and set your ego aside is golden ❤️
@@tracyjohnson5023 thank u for replying. I am more of a greener rider with a horse that is very smart so i have been working at trying to find what works best and for sure i have NO problem admitting that 99.9% of the time it’s me. I wish i had someone to learn from where i am but unfortunately i don’t so i’m trying to grasp what i can online.
I’m so green that i didnt know what a “brace” was until Pat explained it so clearly here. And oh, like you, my current issue is my horse wants to go the opposite direction when i’m in saddle. I have a mustang which by all accounts was more horse than i was needing but it’s 4 years now and we’ve made progress but not a ton bc of lack of training but i will keep doing my best for him. I think he knows that but Lord does he try me.
Mr.Puckett ...!
This is the best horse communication / teaching Horsemanship I have ever seen ! Honest Man !!
One of the best horseman right here!
Man! There is a lot going on in this video! Just a single project, but relatable to any other project you can be in with a horse. Setting up/managing the situation so the horse has to search for the answer then they learn for the next time, v.s. too much pressure so the horse is not thinking and reacting to save itself. The line that separates support and pressure is such a thin one, and that is the line the perfect horseman has to stand on all the time. Good Luck out there everybody, I am still working on it.
I like the mud puddle in the corral. Reminds me of Oregon.
OMG a masterclass in horse thinking so gooooood thank you thanks for going over every part . . .
Gratefully Val
Great ideas and awesome applications!!!! It is a true pleasure to watch you work the horse’s mind!!!! Thank you so much!!!!
I’m a 100% Total and Permanent Disabled Veteran and Above Knee Amputee with a broken back (L-5 & S-1 Vertebrae). I had to sell my two horses and chose to sell my tack.
I miss it so much, but I couldn’t get in the saddle these days.
Now I ride my Japanese Quarter Horse (Yamaha Rhino 660) to ride the mountains.
I wish you and your’s the very best!!!!
Terry dang I'm sorry you had to give up riding. Have you thought of a saddle adaptation and a smooth gaited horse with a tall mounting block or a cart horse to drive? You probably thought of it all so I definitely don't want to seem rude.
Tracy Johnson, thank you so much for your kind concerns!!!! It really touches my heart to have someone respond as you have!!!!
Yes, I have thought of many different ideas. However, like Pat, I like a spirited horse and I’m so busted up, I would have to have a step built to get me high enough to where my feet were even with the stirrups to even get on a horse. Those places are few and far between in the mountains where I like to ride. Plus, I could only mount from the right side and in the mountains, you have to be able to mount from either side sometimes. I could never hike or walk out if I had to.
There’s just too many obstacles for me. If it was just the loss of my leg, I’d still have my horses and be riding.
My only foot is mangled badly and has a bone that keeps trying to come out of the ball of the foot. If it gets infected, I could be a double leg amputee. My knee is in bad shape, as I had to have the ACL reconstructed.
I’ve worn out both my shoulders by falling on my crutches. My right one has been reconstructed and now, my left shoulder is in bad shape. I can’t lift my arm straight out to my side. I’m pretty sure it needs reconstruction. That is the most painful surgery I’ve had!
I have neuropathy and nerve pain so bad, they had to implant a Spinal Cord Stimulator. If I didn’t have that and my Gabapentin, I would have ended my life long ago.
My stomach now has my third hiatal hernia, where the stomach goes up through the diaphragm and into the lung area. The VA has me scheduled with the University of Utah to have a Gastric Bypass operation to fix it for good on March 6th.
My foot surgery and shoulder surgery will have to come after my stomach. I’ve waited a year and a half for the stomach operation. I have to sit upright in my bed to sleep and I get two to three hours of sleep a night. I’ve been doing that for 16 months now.
Yeah, if I were a horse, they would have led me down to bottom of the pasture and shot me years ago. Some days, I think I’d prefer that option, but then I take my meds and get ready for another day.
Don’t get me wrong. Even with all my ailments, I still manage to have more fun than a lot of people!!!! All I have to do is go down the halls of the Salt Lake VA Hospital to see a lot of guys worse off than I am. So I know I am blessed to have what I have!!! I miss my horses terribly, but I had to give that part of my life up, until I’m on the other side. I’m sure I will have horses in Heaven!!!! So, I’m just taking a break from them now.
Thank you again for your kind concerns and your suggestions are well taken!!! May the Lord bless you and yours with all the success and happiness your saddle bags can carry!!!!
Have all the fun you want…. I will go make some more!!!!
@@terrythornock6468 Thank you for your service and may God give you blessings daily to get through the day.
My coming 10 yr old MFT mare hasn’t had regular rides and needs me to refresh our relationship each time I ride. This seems like a good way to do that. Thank you.
My husbands favorite saying is "that horse needs a job" and many times he's correct.
We used to start colts and fix problem horses, but for the last few years it's mostly tune ups for trail horses or getting arena horses out on trails.
The staggering popularity of the "broke ranch horse" has been great for the industry, but comes with its own set of problems as lots of people buy one for a trail horse.
We're in East Tennessee and see weekend trail riders owning them. So many of these horses go from living outside 24/7 on mostly grass/hay to being up in a stall with grain and turn out.
They go from being ridden most of the day, 6-7 days a week to being ridden 1-2 days a week for a few hours.
The owners can't figure out why their good broke horse is broncy now, thus my husbands advice. Most of the horses are back to good once we ride them consistently and even better if the owner follows our advice to cut grain and turn them out and ride a few times a week. Maybe lunge with saddle on for a minute.
However, we see some that truly do need a full time job besides riding around an arena for 30 minutes once a week with a 2 hour trail ride another day. It's a good outcome for that horse when the owner does the right thing for the horse and passes him along to a working cowboy.
So many working partners have been made pets. It’s unfair to expect them to not misbehave and manifest frustration. Even the animals know they’re here to work not just exist. Just look at young men now…same thing, too much leisure time leads to trouble.
Howdy! I’m in East Tennessee as well. Glad to see a neighbor here. 😁 Do y’all still work with horses?
@@justravyn5307 yes we do just not as many as we did when younger lol.
@@tracyjohnson5023 I’m wanting to get back into working with horses again now that my son is grown and I would love to chat with you if that’s ok. Can I give you my email or phone number? I’ll try to not talk your ear off lol
This video will be my every morning contemplation until I will have digested every single detail of this walking body language.
A Master Class. Outstanding. Thank you
Hey guys.
What an interesting horse!
The kind of that takes you out of your comfort zone. Don’t know Chris but I hope he’s got good timing to work with this fellow!!
Another good vidéo and a lot of comments and explanations too (don’t take it personal …😂)
👋
Re people thinking they need to be "friends" with their horse... horses don't operate that way. They have a herd hierarchy, they need to know where they are in it. It's all about feeling safe and secure. If another horse gives into them, they will boss that horse and take the lead. Because that horse proved he wasn't able to lead or make decisions. But if another horse stands up and bosses them around, then that is the horse they prefer to follow and feel safer with. I see this all the time with my herd. If you remove a boss horse from the field (the leader) the others get very upset and whinny and carry on like crazy. But if the bottom ranked horse is removed, they don't care too much. They get security from whoever can take charge, be confident, and lead.
Love this video. It's the first time I watched it.
I love everything about this video!
Thankyou.
Amazing demonstration!
Excellent as always! Thanks for sharing your knowledge and wisdom!
Loved watching the process. Question - why didn't you rope him a lot like some of the other horses?
This horse has already been roped. But in the future, Chris might practice his head shots on Pie.
I like it when he says..."wrong choice, have to run him off...nothing personal" lol.
🤣The beauty of a round pin... They'll be right back!
howdy Folks ! I part time cowboy, riding other folk's horses. I'm going to do this with my usual riding partner. whole lot better than throwing a halter on her, then the saddle, and demanding a good working relationship. this video calms me down ! thanks so much, you two !
Does this kinda
Work, working with Mules,love your Chanel?
Pat doesn't understand how mules think so he can't answer your question.
He’s a strong advocate for his own cause. Lol most humans find that to be an annoyance. Some day you’ll thank God for that toughness once it’s working for you.
Also agree about the tongue working. If you’ve ever been really scared, you get a strange metallic taste. That’s adrenaline. So totally agree, some times working the tongue is a good thing and others not so much.
Question: When you wrap up a session like this, how would you leave the horse? Would you turn him out? Feed him? Tie him? Leave him in the round pen? I know people have varying opinions on this but I’d like to know yours. Thanks!
Hello how are you doing?
Pat what is the size of your round pen ? I’m finding 60 ft pretty big. When doing ground work.
40-45 feet diameter
@@PatnDebPuckett thanks so much.
Do you keep at it till you get the results your looking for all in one session? Or is there a time you would quit for the day and try again tomorrow?
You have to be true to yourself. By stopping, are you copping out and not hanging in there and teaching the horse that all he has to do is wait you out and you'll quit? Or are you stopping at a point to allow the horse to process what you are asking and picking up the next day?
Experience. Nothing beats it.
Fundamental problem. Great fix. Thanks for posting.
I tried to do this exercise with my horse and all he did was follow me around. Does that mean he doesn’t have a brace?
You should be able to send him away and draw him to you going both directions. If you can do that and the horse comes to you centered in both eyes, you’re good!
En France, un vieux maître m’a appris « un cheval vaincu n’est pas un cheval convaincu. ». C’est exactement cela , toute une philosophie de vie…
Not all horses are the same. Some take longer to get the join up game. I would bet this horse is a good candidate to buck or bolt given the lack of trust. It will take time with this one.
Great wisdom
Great video, Pat. Is the horse's attitude stubbornness, fear, or a combination of the two?
There is no fear in this horse. And you should take the word Stubbornness out of your vocabulary when it comes to working with horses. This horse is simply doing what he thinks he has to do. What you’re watching is the horse holding on to his desire to maintain his role as the leader. Rather than choosing to follow the human. He is saying I will go this far but no farther. Also, this horse is extremely intelligent which is a good thing once he agrees to work for the human. Keep in mind that this horse is being ridden in between round pen sessions. He’s not dangerous, not trying to buck off his rider, or run through the bridle. His owner is trying to fix their relationship before things go too far. And that is commendable.
@@PatnDebPuckett Thank you for your quick and clear response to my question. This was helpful.
At what point do you decide to walk up and touch him? Is that to help build his confidence with you?
My horse moves his head away avoiding me. Trying to figure out what's going on. I'll keep watching this video over and over.
If this episode had a shape it would be a spiral. You start big on the periphery of engagement and then slowly methodically move in to the centre. You found the needle in the haystack! It was fascinating to see!
wow, was he ever stuck! patience is the key virtue here.
Would making him go around the pen a few times before trying to catch his eye and turn in be more affective, Like making him breath harder, work harder, would that make him face up faster??
No you have to come from less pressure not more. More is too aggressive and predatory. It has to be their decision. They do not learn through fear but through understanding who leads and who follows.
Does this come from, .. not enough ground work?
Don’t talk to him
Pat only talks when he’s making a video so that viewers can understand what he is thinking.
@@PatnDebPuckett It was intended as a joke. I have much respect for what he does and his desire to share it so generously. Pats patience is as valuable a a lesson as the skills he teaches We don’t need to buy a carrot or a stick or a string.
What a load of absolute nonsense, more gung-ho force, horse does not want anything to do with you, lots of clichés and a frightened suspicious horse that needs to be run down to get cooperation.
A frightened horse doesn't have his tail out. He will clamp it down. This is just one thing in this video that you misinterpreted. Perhaps you would like to ask a specific question about a specific part of the video rather than making a negative comment. Then we could have a meaningful discussion. Or perhaps you would post a video showing us how you work with your own horses? Talk is cheap on a keyboard.
@@PatnDebPuckett a frightened horse does have it's tail up as, it called ready for flight. No I don't need critique as I know better. Work on connection before you start sending a horse away, otherwise you have a scared horse whose attention is somewhere else because he doesn't see you as safety.
It's a bit "loud" for very sensitive horses. Good process but high volume. Seems a bit much. Btw I study a bunch of people's training methods, this isn't new to me. Before you cue the hate, my paradigm is now how subtle can I be to elicit a response?
Your horse can only be as sensitive as your first ask.
I don’t “cue hate” but I will offer an explanation. We respond to what the horse gives us. This particular horse on this particular day required a loud response. I would recommend you watch more of our videos especially those in our playlist titled Chinaco before you judge our methods.
The goal would be to do the minimum it takes. This guy doesn’t know what minimum means.
Wow. Destroyed your entire progress at 6:00 when the horse was already following and got yourself good 20 minutes of begging the horse to join with all sorts of methods. Had to restart at 28:00, I wonder how long the cut out part was. Fair to the horse? Nah. Seen better.
Show me a horse coming to you and abandoning the hay. For now I see a horse trying to cope with the adrenaline you have induced at 6:00.
I am a fan of yours Pat and watch your videos since years, but this video has a bitter taste to it.
Calm down lassie. You’re sounding like a know it all who thought they just witnessed a crime. Hilarious. This guy has more years doing this than about 99% of people that have touched a horse. But hey, stay passionate… I guess.
First I’ll address the length of the complete session. I edited out around 5 minutes of video in total mostly due to my fingers being in the frame even more than the footage I left in. Having my shoulder in a sling at the same time as my gimbal finally wearing out affected my ability to hold my phone comfortably. Second, this horse is not an easy horse. He’s wildly intelligent. He is always thinking. I’m sure that a less complex horse would have followed the script you had in mind but Pie marches to his own drummer. It’s one of the reasons he’s such a great ranch horse. Give him a hard job every day and he is on it. And finally, it’s very easy to ride a bull from a barstool. You cannot see the angles that Pat was using or feel the energy he was extending toward the horse from a simple video shot by a one armed woman. Pat is a consummate horseman and he chooses to share that wisdom and experience with the public because he believes that when one has a gift, it should be shared. I would encourage you to adopt an attitude when watching a great horsemen when you see something you don’t think is right to ask a question rather than assuming you know what should or should not have happened. You are watching something from your perspective and don’t understand it.
@@ToolFan68 I have seen a lot of people who are blinded by their own experience, especially as they age - because "it has been so many years you don't dare tell me what to do!!". And the world has moved on long ago.
Despite of how you allow yourself to formulate your arguments, I will stay open-minded and critical and will know when to switch to another horseman's channel - you may stay in the fanclub. Ciao.
@@PatnDebPuckett thank you for your reply. I'll ask a question: why even when Pat removed the flag completely, the horse, who was already following but presumably only afraid of the flag, still took more than 20min and a complete restart? Could it be that Pat betrayed the horse? Because that's how it looks like from my perspective.
I more or less agree with this. The horse was willingly following Pat just before the 6 minute mark. I might have called that a day right then. For the rest of the video, what I see is a horse wanting to keep Pat from getting behind it. That, to me is why it spins around on the front feet. Also, when Pat goes up and touches the horse, and then walks away, the horse moves off without any direct pressure. That tells me the horse is not comfortable, at all. Anyway, that's what I see.
Carrot stick is not a ripoff. You are doing what parelli and Monte Roberts did 25 years ago. You are just using another form of the same tool. Reason he is not walking around with you called follow up is because you are not spending time doing what's called friendly game . Rub between the eyes, neck and walk away. 100 percent he'll walk with you every where in the round pen.