@@Jack_Sparrow131 2nd gen RTX will either be the same price or cheaper than 1st gen. It makes no sense to be more expensive as it will lock away lower end systems and new technology gets cheaper over time.
ATTENTION: In 2018 manufacturers are using 2 chokes per phase. So if you count each choke, might be dividing by 2 to get the correct number of phases. Some manufactures claim having 12 phases, when actually the mobo have 4+2 (CPU + memory)
Doublers have been a thing for quite some time, my msi 390x uses doubler on the vrm. And I might add, its still good. Also the vrm, vrm cooling and memory cooling (on the gpu) are some of the most overlooked things when shopping for pc parts, asus and xfx are the worst offenders sometimes not even giving any cooling to the memory or vrm. People only focus on the core temps
@@LocalAutist and VRM temps are the least critical things to worry about, about as important as overclocking your cache. They typically will run pretty hot, like, 160F. unless you're hitting like 90c idle, passive airflow is enough. but just to be safe, fill your case with mineral oil. do it.
You still can, its just not gonna be a relevant generation. Unless you bought a Radeon 7, you know, that card that literally everyone on youtube said was a poop fire. Say you bought two of them. Then say Ethereum just happens to be really easy to mine on one. So you *sell it for 3 times what you paid for it, 3 years later, to some scalper sack of poop* and use the money for the vastly superior 6900XT? take that, tech tubers.
@@petersmulders8058 the proper term is "inductor". I mean, it can be _used as a choke_ as in, decoupling high frequencies from low and blocking them but letting low-pass through. just like a transistor can be used as a logic gate, a choke, a switch, and a diode and probably at least 1-3 more things I can't remember off the top of my head. When a transistor blocks current flow in one direction, they don't suddenly become "diodes" Oh, me? I'm Life of the party, nice to meet ya.
... Linus the PWM controller effectively produces a PWM signal which drives the mosfets which in turn acts as a buck converter. The inductor and capacitor is a filtering network.
@@DLTX1007 diode (in this context) is kinda provocative question: in usual buck converters they serve to let (main) current pass where it needs to go once switch is open. but here you have (smaller) diodes that indeed filter something: www.maketecheasier.com/assets/uploads/2018/07/what-is-a-vrm-multi-phase-vrm-schematic.png.webp
@@DLTX1007 en.wikichip.org/w/images/thumb/d/d8/P6X58D_Premium_vrm_detailed.png/800px-P6X58D_Premium_vrm_detailed.png well, they filter something out, don't they? i mean the snubber/flyback diodes upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/BackEMFWaveform.png upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/FlybackWaveform.gif or these accidental diodes inside mosfet case toshiba.semicon-storage.com/ap-en/semiconductor/knowledge/faq/mosfet/is-it-ok-to-use-the-body-diode-parasitic-diode-between-the-drain.html
@@DLTX1007 don't get too excited or offensive, my young man: 1-i introduced diodes to this discussion where you mentioned none -> good thing! there indeed are some diodes here, be it parasitic or discrete....or both! hehe ...so the lesson is that both "old fashioned" buck converters have them, as do cpu vrms. 2-what is the definition of filter in electronics? also knowing that, protection from switching aside(which in itself is filtering voltage spikes), fast switching produces noise. oh yeah, regarding your first post: why did you call inductor a (part of) filter(ing network) here? hehe...what exactly is inductor "filtering" in this circuit? talking about semantics...oughm... if you're bored, here photos.app.goo.gl/7n1SYcfJD1TiKvC58 reverse engineer that... ~ denotes mains voltage points.
+oddball0045 Most MOSFETs on motherboards are not just discrete transistors, they're usually built into a larger IC that also contains drive circuitry. Here's an example of the MOSTFETs used on recent Asus motherboards: www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/CSD87350Q5D/296-28318-1-ND/2615905 You can see the large metal areas used for the large currents of the MOSFET and to remove heat... And all the other pins are for the other circuitry inside. Although, you're probably right, the pictures were not of a MOSFET nor a FET controller, just a random IC.
Have you thought of doing a video soldering/changing a motherboard from electrolytic capacitors to solid polymer capacitors? Might be an interesting duel between Linus and Luke to see who's motherboard doesn't explode.
Couple of issues with this video. number of phases doesn't always mean better, not all phases are created equal, a 8 phase motherboard might have much stronger VRMs than a 12 phase one due to having better mosfets, chokes and so on. Skylake requires MORE phases compared to broadwell and haswell as they have FIVR which does most of the voltage regulation on the cpu, the motherboard only needs to feed the cpu with a constant 1.8-1.9 volts which means less current, which in turns renders you able to reduce the chokes because you're less sensitive to ripple and you're also delivering more power per amp to the cpu. Looks like Linus might just be hyping skylake for intel, #itsaconspiracy.
+TheLawnWanderer yes but its better if you get a 12 phase mb that performs worse than some 8 phase than getting something that dies with a turbo boost overclock
+Yew Tewb That's what happened when you stick with a single company in a long time. Now when he's talking about something that related to Intel, even in a non sponsored video, he will talk about Intel.
+Tomshwom you can take your RAS syndrome and deal with it. at an ATM machine with its fancy LCD displays that you enter your PIN number into, which turns out to be connected only to a LAN network. might as well update the DOS system. but what if it doesn't POST test successfully? may need to get an RMA authorization, though you'll have to find its UPC code and S/N number. you might be able to fix it by downloading more RAM memory.
I love these old education videos. You can tell its old because he referred to an "exiting new $400 graphics card!" Lol! Im glad videos like this exist. Helps me be less stupid.
+Chcrane all do nothing internally on youtube. obviously if a video has more dislikes than likes people might not watch it before it even starts. but you dont get more money or anything for likes/dislikes/comments
+EZOVERDOSE Except that's wrong. Likes/dislikes in the new UA-cam systems alongside ENGAGEMENT (algorithm using your time spent on a video, comments, etc.) improves your chances to be featured and recommended by UA-cam's search, which in turns mean increasing your audience. Back in the day, the algorithm relied entirely upon views and country (this is precisely how pewdiepie got big in the first place; he cheated the system because he got plastered all over the searches for different countries). Nowadays it's more complicated than that due to repeated abuse. Take for instance UA-cam commenting system after they implemented Google+. Have you noticed how the most "liked" comment aren't necessarily the ones that get displayed on UA-cam videos? They take into account engagement as well as "likes," but just because one of the comments is heavily "disliked" doesn't mean it can't appear on the front page of the video, quite the contrary--depending on the people's engagement it may even get streamlined into the front page every single time.
m8onethousand likes/dislikes/comments do not directly earn you more money through monetization is what i meant. it may indirectly affect it by everything that you said. but dollar per view ratio is not affected. if a video gets 1000 views 1000 dislikes no comments it makes the same money as a video with 1000 views 1000 likes and 1000 comments. assuming no one used adblock and all the same ads were ran which are both unrealistic. you get paid per ad seen or clicked not per view or like or comment
+Chcrane I'd rather want a video where I'm not asked to like if I want another video about something else to be made. I'll click like on this video if I like this video.
This is a video I was expecting from wendell....I've been wondering what people we're talking about with 'power phases' for a long time. Thanks for the info!
Does Linus not know what an SO-8 power MOSFET looks like? He showed a couple of but QFNs and two 74-series 5 volt logic chips instead of spending 5 seconds to get a photo of the most recognizable component in the hardware industry, the SO-8 package.
***** you obviously dont know shit about video streaming, The videos are pre-rendered and your computer recieves the frames from youtube and buffer them to display them on screen at the correct time
Both chokes and Capacitor works like a storage of electricity but in a different way. The chokes oppose sudden change of current and the capacitor prevents voltage spikes or ripples. With that being said, in general more is better but only to certain extent as pointed out by @TheLawnWanderer I would however would look for spec sheet of the capacitor since that's the visible part. Ideally a very low esr rated capacitor is expected in a quality MB.
@OLDSKOOL978 lies. If you have a Threadripper 3990x you would not use it for gaming and which idiot would use 64 cores for gaming. secondly it is almost impossible for that thing to hit below 63 degrees with all core turbo 4 Ghz
@OLDSKOOL978 OK ok thanks for the evidence. But back to AMD, their CPUs smash every workload at god speed. In premiere my 3950x crushed the workload at god speeds while doing 8k editinf
Each choke represents a phase? LoL. No wonder board vendors continue to stick a ton of chokes to make boards look like they have more phases than they do. Tech channel sending wrong info like this.
Exactly, it's better to count the mosfets.. 2 mosfets per phase.. Even then it doesn't make any difference because the quality of components is what matters.. If you want, you can read and search data sheets of all the components and know quite a bit about electronics to know what you are dealing with..
Even if you count the mosfets you're not really counting phases. I can't think of a single "8-phase" VRM on a current motherboard that isn't just a doubled 4-phase.
@@GonePh1shing there's properly doubled VRMs (IR359X/ISL661X/etc) and then ...setups with 2x the mosfets. also, X399 and it seems X299 (and some gens older than when i started paying attention) have REAL 8 phases. check out Ye Olde VRM Bibles at hardwareluxx
Smd mosfets are often in d2pak package. Capacitor dont protect from voltage spikes, they just stabilise voltage to steady dc with as less voltage ripple as possible and chokes(inductors) conver pwm to fixed voltage (if you have 10v input and driving mosfet with 33% pwm in buck configuration with coil and with no load after inductor and capacitor you should get 3.3v) and at the end there is just a lc filter (inductor in series before capacitor in parallel) :D it's very basic electronics and simple :D
Its not due for release until 2016. basically all we know is its gonna be SMT like intel (better single core performance) and it's going to be about 40% better than the existing CPU's AMD has now.
+xFreeland1 When I said fast I didn't think that fast, lol. Thanks for the info, glad to see they left Bulldozer behind. I'll never understand why they didn't just shrink Phenom.
+20teamplayer They are probably already in production testing now, but they still didn't offer that much information about the architecture itself, just some specs and features. The best desktop CPU will have 8 physical and 8 virtual cores with a maximum TDP rating (specified heat output) of 95 W and it is suspected that they will implement a technology to have one thread processed on all cores simultaneously if needed. The server CPUs will have up to four wafers on one Die, so a total of 32 physical cores + 32 virtual cores. The performance per core is suspected to be 60% higher compared to their latest CPU architecture used in their APUs and those already made a big jump from Piledriver. The performance desktop CPUs will be codenamed "Summit Ridge". There will be PCIe-3.0-controllers on the chip together with a memory controller capable of running DDR3 and DDR4 (probably dual-channel for consumer CPUs/APUs and quad-channel ECC for server CPUs). Each core will have 512 KB of L2 cache and each pack of 4 cores will have access to 8 MB of L3 cache, that's a total of 20 MB cache for the 8 core CPUs, 19 MB for the 6 cores and 10 MB or 18 MB for the 4 cores, depending on how AMD will cut the resources of the chip. The 8 core will compete against the Skylake i7 6700K, the 6 core against the i5 6600K and the 4 core against the i3 6320. It will be an interesting race, especially because I can't remember when it was the last time AMD and Intel had the same structure size for their competing architectures. A Phenom III architecture with 22nm structure size, 8 cores and SMT instead of Bulldozer would've been nice indeed, especially because it's easier and cheaper to upgrade an existing architecture, which already performs well, than creating new bullshit from scratch and trying to optimize it later on.
Razor Blade Thank you for the info. I thought it was 40% improvement, and that is the theoretical max. Not bashing it, just being realistic. Real would is almost never near theoretical. Here's hoping, this is AMD's last chance.
20teamplayer You're right, they changed it again when Excavator was released. It was +60% compared to Steamroller, +40% compared to Excavator. AMD also stated that they will be able to fill the gap between the recent architecture and Skylake in terms of instructions per clock with Zen. It's still not clear by how much it will really be filled, but, as far as the specs look like, Zen will take great advantage from the performance optimizations Intel has paid many software developers for, without the need of changing the code. Coming closer to an architecture the software is actually developed for plus more raw performance than their counterparts will definitely make them more competitive. Atleast, this is the theory...
Chokes (inductors) oppose a change in current. Capacitors oppose a change in voltage. Both components are part of a filter assembly that filter out electrical noise.
+pezco. I have a Gigabyte 970A-DS3P (I'm on a budget) and it has always been super-stable. It supports overclocking on my FX8350. It is DDR3 and USB3.0 with solid state capacitors and dual UEFI BIOS but has no onboard video. The only downside now is that I have just installed an MSI R9 270X graphics card, which is PCIe 3.0 whereas the board is PCIe 2.0.
+pezco. I had an Asrock 990FX Killer for awhile before I jumped to skylake. Pushed my FX 6200 to 4.7 stable with 1.4v. Wasn't a bad board. Wish I wasn't too pussy to mess with voltages while I had the Sabertooth 990FX, maybe I could have gotten a bit further.
+Jonathan Peden That last bit isn't really a con. Graphics cards still have not reached a point where they get bottleneck'd by PCIe 2.0 even running at x8.
Jak Well that just cheered me up, thanks! What I forgot to mention about my mobo is that it refuses to detect Samsung mechanical HDDs - I did some compatibility research and it seems it only likes Seagate and WD drives, so I got a WD (I needed more space anyway). Samsung 850 EVO SSD' work perfectly though...bloody computers :-)
Linus: Please be the good guy among all the geeks and stop talking about 3 or 4 and even more powersupply phases for the cpu. Phase has nothing to do with it. Phase requires a time component to be measure against which is simply not there in DC. Phase is an AC thing, and AC has no place near a CPU. I had written a thorough technical explaination about the whys and hows from electronic engineering's point of view, but it disappeard before I finished. So I don't wanna do it all over again. But the number of phases as you say do not mean that it is better (with more). This is a load balancing / efficiency trick done by the engineer that designed it, and is a VERY good design. But the phases you talk of, is correctly refered to as rails when it comes to DC. AC however - phase is correct. a 3 phase AC supply is also for load balancing / eficiency. I doubt that I can say anything to correct these wrongs in the whole interwebz geek communities, but it is how it is.
I thought chokes help against spikes and store a little electromagnetic energy, while capacitors store energy, allowing them to smooth small spikes but mainly to cover small drops of power. is that correct?
How times have flown man! I can now pick up a 10th gen i5, z490 board, 16gb 3600mhz, and a 1tb NVME SSD for less than the cost of my 4th gen budget build from back in 2014. Wowzers!
Hey TQ. Could you do a video explaining what all things are replacable on a motherboard PCB? Is it even possible to get same performance if you have to get a couple of components changed?
It's also really important to look at how many bicoupling capacitors each flux phase uses. Cheaper motherboards tend to like to use older ferrite core capacitors which can interfere with the operational transconductance amplifiers on the board. This will likely cause the SMPS linear regulators to overheat causing BSODs. But most important is that they only use C0G capacitors and not NP0 or X7R as they are way too flux dependent and will cause system instability due to their inherent Torrential Cascade Effect transistors.
+DavisSgt if you compare amd processors with intel processors that perform similarly, you'll find that amd tends to eat just a little more power. compare something like the fx 6300 to any i3, or fx 8350 to the i5-2xxx, 3xxx or 4xxx series(both of these comparisons are at similar pricepoints and performance) the amd chips would eat more power. google it if you dont believe me. amd these days only beat power consumption when you're using am1 or fm series processors with the iGPU for gaming
+joe chu but is it a good thing though? it's not healthy in the long run, people stop playing it and it is very hard for new players to get in, it makes the community die out sometime in the near future
+Dan L He's literally saying that the grass is blue. For starters MOSFET's do not deliver anything related to VOLTAGE. They are just switching ON and OFF with the PWM applied to their gates (hence the term switch mode power supply) in order to deliver CURRENT! Chokes do not stabilize anything. They form a low-pass filter (with the capacitor) so that the output is restored back to DC (from PWM). Sometimes the filter is also called a reconstruction filter. They should really get a technical editor with some degree of electronics education.
+Dan L None of these guys have the credentials to be able to talk about these kinds of things. It's more like "Linus Wikipedia gloss over tips." tips. The amount of incorrect terminology and explanations is a nightmare. He should stick to reviews.
Transformers don't perform any sort of wave rectification (the process of AC->DC). They simply step up or down the voltage according to the number of turns on the primary and secondary coils. Wave rectification (half or full) is achieved by diodes which block and redirect the flow of positive and negative voltages. The result would be ~110-120v @120Hz :3 You're welcome.
I'm replacing a proprietary H310 motherboard with a Z390 for my Intel 8700K CPU. The listing for the new MB shows significant heatsinks on the VRM, but when I got it, they were missing. The mounting holes are there for them, but I can't find parts like that anywhere online. How do I get those heatsinks aftermarket?
How do you tell if a motherboard has solid state capacitors? From what I've seen the specification pages when browsing motherboards also don't say anything about that.
Linus, why do you call a large block of IC's mosfet? Mosfet is a single really tiny transistor. The example IC chip that you provided contain like 4 - 6 of them.
Question time ! If I replace the fan/heatsink combo on the processor with a waterblock, what do I need to do to ensure MOSFETs are kept cool ? Edit : I was in somewhat of a hurry when I typed this question. Here is some more background. I am going to replace my mobo for an AsRock H77M-ITX (no VRM heatsink) and my case for a SilverStone SG13. I have an i7-3770 with stock fan/heatsink, which won't fit the SG13. As I understand it, the fan of the processor creates enough airflow for the MOSFETs to keep cool, which means that most often MOSFETs don't require more cooling to keep them running. When all that's said and done, replacing the fan/heat spreader by a water block means that there won't be any airflow anymore on the MOSFETs. And considering the SB13 on top of this, I really start to wonder if the MOSFETs will support this treatment. Should I consider copper heatsinks ? Another question. The radiator for the water-cooler will be on the front panel. If I turn it inward, how hot would the interior of the case run ?
So... How many VRMs a good motherboard has? Is there a specific material they have to be made of or a certification of quality they need to have? Maybe a specific manufacturer? Please answer.
5:22 How to change your hair and face As Fast As Possible
Lmao he did it again
@@GunnrMan Lol
Lmao
His voice and personality also feels a bit different
LOL 😁
".. a 400 Dollar graphics card..."
Little did he know back then...
little did he know back then (RTX edition)
@@rens3286 Little will know the next $2000 RTX 2nd Gen xD
@@Jack_Sparrow131 think about how good of a deal the current rtx will be for just 1200 dollars 😅
When high midrange cards cost 400$
@@Jack_Sparrow131 2nd gen RTX will either be the same price or cheaper than 1st gen.
It makes no sense to be more expensive as it will lock away lower end systems and new technology gets cheaper over time.
ATTENTION:
In 2018 manufacturers are using 2 chokes per phase. So if you count each choke, might be dividing by 2 to get the correct number of phases.
Some manufactures claim having 12 phases, when actually the mobo have 4+2 (CPU + memory)
not Asus at all
@@bellini98-1 r/woosh
Doublers have been a thing for quite some time, my msi 390x uses doubler on the vrm. And I might add, its still good.
Also the vrm, vrm cooling and memory cooling (on the gpu) are some of the most overlooked things when shopping for pc parts, asus and xfx are the worst offenders sometimes not even giving any cooling to the memory or vrm. People only focus on the core temps
@@LocalAutist and VRM temps are the least critical things to worry about, about as important as overclocking your cache. They typically will run pretty hot, like, 160F. unless you're hitting like 90c idle, passive airflow is enough. but just to be safe, fill your case with mineral oil. do it.
Is there some way to tell, by looking at it (or .. ?) what it _actually_ is?
1:49 “Putting in a new *$400* graphics card”
**cries in current events**
That's the cheapest price for a graphics cards now a days.
You still can, its just not gonna be a relevant generation. Unless you bought a Radeon 7, you know, that card that literally everyone on youtube said was a poop fire. Say you bought two of them. Then say Ethereum just happens to be really easy to mine on one. So you *sell it for 3 times what you paid for it, 3 years later, to some scalper sack of poop* and use the money for the vastly superior 6900XT? take that, tech tubers.
Fast forward to now that cards are back to msrp!
Lol Linus mentioned about the upcoming Ryzen from AMD... this video was made in 2015 so upcoming meant 2 years??
Linus have time travel machine conformed
Lol
wccftech.com/amd-zen-cpu-core-block/
how is that funny? something new comes out every 1-2 years
@@dynamo3059 you dumb mate?
4:04 "AMD's upcoming Zen architecture"
Watching this in 2019 with Zen 2 about to come out to the market and knowing how good Zen is xD
Reading this comment while waiting for more official Benchmarks
@@-.2.. Reading this reply while looking longingly at the R5 3600's box waiting for the case so I can build the damn thing.
@@deus_ex_machina_ Reading this reply while admiring my completed build with a 3800x
Reading this comment while waiting for my 3900x / MSI PRESTIGE CREATION / 2080 Ti MSI GAMING X TRIO 11gb to be delivered
@@The777Musician Reading this comment while owning a 3700x and waiting for b550 mobos to come to complete my system.
Actually Hardcore Overclocking channel does the best vrm analysis
+Hardware Unboxed
"Just count the # of chokes on the motherboard!"
ASUS: (maliciously chuckles)
Gigabyte likes putting chokes on their boards
@@petersmulders8058 the proper term is "inductor". I mean, it can be _used as a choke_ as in, decoupling high frequencies from low and blocking them but letting low-pass through. just like a transistor can be used as a logic gate, a choke, a switch, and a diode and probably at least 1-3 more things I can't remember off the top of my head. When a transistor blocks current flow in one direction, they don't suddenly become "diodes"
Oh, me? I'm Life of the party, nice to meet ya.
... Linus the PWM controller effectively produces a PWM signal which drives the mosfets which in turn acts as a buck converter. The inductor and capacitor is a filtering network.
This video was almost as dumbed down as their episode on SIM cards...
and the diode(s)?
@@DLTX1007 diode (in this context) is kinda provocative question: in usual buck converters they serve to let (main) current pass where it needs to go once switch is open. but here you have (smaller) diodes that indeed filter something:
www.maketecheasier.com/assets/uploads/2018/07/what-is-a-vrm-multi-phase-vrm-schematic.png.webp
@@DLTX1007 en.wikichip.org/w/images/thumb/d/d8/P6X58D_Premium_vrm_detailed.png/800px-P6X58D_Premium_vrm_detailed.png
well, they filter something out, don't they?
i mean the snubber/flyback diodes
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/BackEMFWaveform.png
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/FlybackWaveform.gif
or these accidental diodes inside mosfet case
toshiba.semicon-storage.com/ap-en/semiconductor/knowledge/faq/mosfet/is-it-ok-to-use-the-body-diode-parasitic-diode-between-the-drain.html
@@DLTX1007 don't get too excited or offensive, my young man:
1-i introduced diodes to this discussion where you mentioned none -> good thing! there indeed are some diodes here, be it parasitic or discrete....or both! hehe
...so the lesson is that both "old fashioned" buck converters have them, as do cpu vrms.
2-what is the definition of filter in electronics? also knowing that, protection from switching aside(which in itself is filtering voltage spikes), fast switching produces noise.
oh yeah, regarding your first post: why did you call inductor a (part of) filter(ing network) here?
hehe...what exactly is inductor "filtering" in this circuit?
talking about semantics...oughm...
if you're bored, here
photos.app.goo.gl/7n1SYcfJD1TiKvC58
reverse engineer that... ~ denotes mains voltage points.
Those IC pictures are not mosfets... Mosfets have 3 pins. Mosfets are really just a type of transistor.
+oddball0045 some ics have mosfets integrated.
+oddball0045 Most MOSFETs on motherboards are not just discrete transistors, they're usually built into a larger IC that also contains drive circuitry. Here's an example of the MOSTFETs used on recent Asus motherboards: www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/CSD87350Q5D/296-28318-1-ND/2615905
You can see the large metal areas used for the large currents of the MOSFET and to remove heat... And all the other pins are for the other circuitry inside.
Although, you're probably right, the pictures were not of a MOSFET nor a FET controller, just a random IC.
Guilherme Eduardo Carvalho yeas
Have you thought of doing a video soldering/changing a motherboard from electrolytic capacitors to solid polymer capacitors? Might be an interesting duel between Linus and Luke to see who's motherboard doesn't explode.
This is the most informative review I have seen of VRMs! Thank you Linus!
lol! when the bluescreen came up my internet turned of!XD
Not just you, happening to me too, Guess UA-cam had a hiccup.
did linus just ddos me? no way m8.
same
Me too, got loading icon at that point. It's not April Fools is it?
Same
Couple of issues with this video.
number of phases doesn't always mean better, not all phases are created equal, a 8 phase motherboard might have much stronger VRMs than a 12 phase one due to having better mosfets, chokes and so on.
Skylake requires MORE phases compared to broadwell and haswell as they have FIVR which does most of the voltage regulation on the cpu, the motherboard only needs to feed the cpu with a constant 1.8-1.9 volts which means less current, which in turns renders you able to reduce the chokes because you're less sensitive to ripple and you're also delivering more power per amp to the cpu.
Looks like Linus might just be hyping skylake for intel, #itsaconspiracy.
+TheLawnWanderer yes but its better if you get a 12 phase mb that performs worse than some 8 phase than getting something that dies with a turbo boost overclock
TheFPSPower A 12 phase motherboard might be better yeah, but 12-16 phase stuff is overkill for anything but LN2.
+TheLawnWanderer He was sponsored by Intel in many videos. He just forgets to declare it every video, on accident...
+Yew Tewb That's what happened when you stick with a single company in a long time.
Now when he's talking about something that related to Intel, even in a non sponsored video, he will talk about Intel.
***** Only Intel+Nvidia builds, except when he can't control it, like when his child builds the PC.
One choke does not indicate one phase because phase doublers are often employed. In that layout, there is 2 chokes per vrm
THIS !
Is there some way to tell, by looking at it (or .. ?) what it _actually_ is?
At 5:21 when Linus' hair suddenly grows lol
hahaahaa
HIS PENIS HAIR ALSO GROW
+HaPpy SKYWALKER grew*
he went Super Tech
time travel hahahaha
I went to skip ad, then I realised it was Linus.
1:28. Am I the only one who sees the MOSFETs doing something? 😂😂
"DC current"
+Tomshwom what?
+Guilherme Eduardo Carvalho DC stands for direct current. DC current is redundant.
James Parker Oh
+Guilherme Eduardo Carvalho Direct Current current
+Tomshwom you can take your RAS syndrome and deal with it. at an ATM machine with its fancy LCD displays that you enter your PIN number into, which turns out to be connected only to a LAN network. might as well update the DOS system. but what if it doesn't POST test successfully? may need to get an RMA authorization, though you'll have to find its UPC code and S/N number. you might be able to fix it by downloading more RAM memory.
3:10 Anyone else spot the interesting CPU socket design 😂😂
Wow, my UA-cam player crashed at 1:58, right after Linus said "cheaply made", right where we see a blue screen :-)
Then everyone clapped
Just watched this in August 2020. Was buying a new Motherboard and didn't understand this VRM thing. Now i understand.
Is it me or the video freezes at circa. 1:57
lol yeah
just skip a bit and it works fine
I love these old education videos. You can tell its old because he referred to an "exiting new $400 graphics card!" Lol!
Im glad videos like this exist. Helps me be less stupid.
Can we get a video about what a "like/dislike" and a "comment" does to a video?
+Chcrane all do nothing internally on youtube. obviously if a video has more dislikes than likes people might not watch it before it even starts. but you dont get more money or anything for likes/dislikes/comments
+EZOVERDOSE Except that's wrong. Likes/dislikes in the new UA-cam systems alongside ENGAGEMENT (algorithm using your time spent on a video, comments, etc.) improves your chances to be featured and recommended by UA-cam's search, which in turns mean increasing your audience.
Back in the day, the algorithm relied entirely upon views and country (this is precisely how pewdiepie got big in the first place; he cheated the system because he got plastered all over the searches for different countries). Nowadays it's more complicated than that due to repeated abuse.
Take for instance UA-cam commenting system after they implemented Google+. Have you noticed how the most "liked" comment aren't necessarily the ones that get displayed on UA-cam videos? They take into account engagement as well as "likes," but just because one of the comments is heavily "disliked" doesn't mean it can't appear on the front page of the video, quite the contrary--depending on the people's engagement it may even get streamlined into the front page every single time.
m8onethousand
likes/dislikes/comments do not directly earn you more money through monetization is what i meant. it may indirectly affect it by everything that you said. but dollar per view ratio is not affected. if a video gets 1000 views 1000 dislikes no comments it makes the same money as a video with 1000 views 1000 likes and 1000 comments. assuming no one used adblock and all the same ads were ran which are both unrealistic. you get paid per ad seen or clicked not per view or like or comment
+Chcrane I'd rather want a video where I'm not asked to like if I want another video about something else to be made. I'll click like on this video if I like this video.
increase the position of the video when you search something on the lines of the title
Man...Linus has switched up his delivery quite a bit
Best StaCraft joke i heard in a while
This is a video I was expecting from wendell....I've been wondering what people we're talking about with 'power phases' for a long time. Thanks for the info!
Does Linus not know what an SO-8 power MOSFET looks like? He showed a couple of but QFNs and two 74-series 5 volt logic chips instead of spending 5 seconds to get a photo of the most recognizable component in the hardware industry, the SO-8 package.
Finally someone who talks about the importance of a good power delivery system !!! This is extremely important on graphics cards too btw
this video doesnt buffer past 1:57 :(
mine works to 1:58. what is going on?
Same here it makes it to 1:58, but then freezes. i suspect Graphics Issues...
What?!? I just flew past that part.No issues here even though I have like a GTX 730.
*****
it comes pre rendered, your cpu only plays back the still frames in 30 or 60 fps to make it look like its a moving picture
*****
you obviously dont know shit about video streaming, The videos are pre-rendered and your computer recieves the frames from youtube and buffer them to display them on screen at the correct time
0:41 DC current= Direct Current current
this video is bugged for me 1:59 the video just stops - im in eu-iceland
happens to me too
same here, what the f...?
same for me (germany) seems like a part of the video is cirrupted ... it works fine from 2:03 again
da fuq, same
yep, didn't even know that was possible.. Its broken in both chrome and firefox.
Both chokes and Capacitor works like a storage of electricity but in a different way.
The chokes oppose sudden change of current and the capacitor prevents voltage spikes or ripples. With that being said, in general more is better but only to certain extent as pointed out by @TheLawnWanderer
I would however would look for spec sheet of the capacitor since that's the visible part.
Ideally a very low esr rated capacitor is expected in a quality MB.
This is weird... I can't watch between 1:58 and 2:06 of this video. Well I hope it's just... a phase ;]
+Juan Escobar same here o.o
me too
Same... I wonder why.
Very good explanation! I had no idea that RF chokes could be made that small. Also perfect segway.
"upcoming ryzen being more efficient"
Ryzen 9 3950x: let me introduce myself
The 3950X is extremely efficient though.
10980xe*
@OLDSKOOL978 lies. If you have a Threadripper 3990x you would not use it for gaming and which idiot would use 64 cores for gaming. secondly it is almost impossible for that thing to hit below 63 degrees with all core turbo 4 Ghz
@OLDSKOOL978 OK ok thanks for the evidence. But back to AMD, their CPUs smash every workload at god speed. In premiere my 3950x crushed the workload at god speeds while doing 8k editinf
@OLDSKOOL978 They have scaled it down, it's called ryzen 5/7. You can still get 4.4Ghz on them, and how many cores are OC'd on your TR?
I got to be honest, I've heard of VRM before but I never based my purchased on VRM. I may keep that in mind now for the future rig.
1:02 dude that's a f*ing crayfish
trust me, that's a lobster.
@@butre. Oh I saw those oversized pinchers, that's a slap on the face LOL
finally after 3 friggin years, a video about something i *DON'T* know about, until now.
For some reason the part between 1:58-2:04 doesn't want to load with me.
same
and its the bluescreen part XD
sir, your lecture is more than practice. what we need is practice.
I laughed to hard at "a 400$ graphics card"
Spent 2k$ on mine 😭😭
Excellent obscure but very important fundamental knowledge being given, thanks Linus, I really enjoyed it.
Each choke represents a phase? LoL. No wonder board vendors continue to stick a ton of chokes to make boards look like they have more phases than they do. Tech channel sending wrong info like this.
Exactly, it's better to count the mosfets.. 2 mosfets per phase.. Even then it doesn't make any difference because the quality of components is what matters.. If you want, you can read and search data sheets of all the components and know quite a bit about electronics to know what you are dealing with..
Even if you count the mosfets you're not really counting phases. I can't think of a single "8-phase" VRM on a current motherboard that isn't just a doubled 4-phase.
@@GonePh1shing there's properly doubled VRMs (IR359X/ISL661X/etc) and then ...setups with 2x the mosfets. also, X399 and it seems X299 (and some gens older than when i started paying attention) have REAL 8 phases. check out Ye Olde VRM Bibles at hardwareluxx
I can't believe this is a 2015 video, Linus looks like he's in the mid 2000s.
You mean before you were born? lol
@@steel6322 well, I was born in 2000 lol.
*"AMD's Zen architecture looks power efficient"* probably sounded like a joke back in the FX barbecue days
Thought the same lol
Still watch this video monthly as a refresher!
"Arent quite as exciting as putting in a $400 gpu"
2021: ill be excited if i find a gpu anywhere near $400😂
XD sad times
Smd mosfets are often in d2pak package. Capacitor dont protect from voltage spikes, they just stabilise voltage to steady dc with as less voltage ripple as possible and chokes(inductors) conver pwm to fixed voltage (if you have 10v input and driving mosfet with 33% pwm in buck configuration with coil and with no load after inductor and capacitor you should get 3.3v) and at the end there is just a lc filter (inductor in series before capacitor in parallel) :D it's very basic electronics and simple :D
Can you do AMD Zen As Fast As Possible? So many questions!
Its not due for release until 2016. basically all we know is its gonna be SMT like intel (better single core performance) and it's going to be about 40% better than the existing CPU's AMD has now.
+xFreeland1 When I said fast I didn't think that fast, lol. Thanks for the info, glad to see they left Bulldozer behind. I'll never understand why they didn't just shrink Phenom.
+20teamplayer They are probably already in production testing now, but they still didn't offer that much information about the architecture itself, just some specs and features. The best desktop CPU will have 8 physical and 8 virtual cores with a maximum TDP rating (specified heat output) of 95 W and it is suspected that they will implement a technology to have one thread processed on all cores simultaneously if needed. The server CPUs will have up to four wafers on one Die, so a total of 32 physical cores + 32 virtual cores. The performance per core is suspected to be 60% higher compared to their latest CPU architecture used in their APUs and those already made a big jump from Piledriver. The performance desktop CPUs will be codenamed "Summit Ridge". There will be PCIe-3.0-controllers on the chip together with a memory controller capable of running DDR3 and DDR4 (probably dual-channel for consumer CPUs/APUs and quad-channel ECC for server CPUs). Each core will have 512 KB of L2 cache and each pack of 4 cores will have access to 8 MB of L3 cache, that's a total of 20 MB cache for the 8 core CPUs, 19 MB for the 6 cores and 10 MB or 18 MB for the 4 cores, depending on how AMD will cut the resources of the chip. The 8 core will compete against the Skylake i7 6700K, the 6 core against the i5 6600K and the 4 core against the i3 6320. It will be an interesting race, especially because I can't remember when it was the last time AMD and Intel had the same structure size for their competing architectures. A Phenom III architecture with 22nm structure size, 8 cores and SMT instead of Bulldozer would've been nice indeed, especially because it's easier and cheaper to upgrade an existing architecture, which already performs well, than creating new bullshit from scratch and trying to optimize it later on.
Razor Blade Thank you for the info. I thought it was 40% improvement, and that is the theoretical max. Not bashing it, just being realistic. Real would is almost never near theoretical. Here's hoping, this is AMD's last chance.
20teamplayer You're right, they changed it again when Excavator was released. It was +60% compared to Steamroller, +40% compared to Excavator. AMD also stated that they will be able to fill the gap between the recent architecture and Skylake in terms of instructions per clock with Zen. It's still not clear by how much it will really be filled, but, as far as the specs look like, Zen will take great advantage from the performance optimizations Intel has paid many software developers for, without the need of changing the code. Coming closer to an architecture the software is actually developed for plus more raw performance than their counterparts will definitely make them more competitive. Atleast, this is the theory...
Chokes (inductors) oppose a change in current. Capacitors oppose a change in voltage. Both components are part of a filter assembly that filter out electrical noise.
Thank you. That was very informative.
"It isn't as exciting as new $400 graphics card"
Didn't age well.
Best video from linus for a long time
"Putting in a new $400 graphics card." I miss those days.
I LOVE YOU LONG TIME LINUS! You Explain stuff so it makes sense. The end!
can you guys please suggest a good AM3+ Socket board with good quality VRM?
my current board causes System instability....
+pezco. ASUS Crosshair Formula-Z might be a good choice.
+pezco. I have a Gigabyte 970A-DS3P (I'm on a budget) and it has always been super-stable. It supports overclocking on my FX8350. It is DDR3 and USB3.0 with solid state capacitors and dual UEFI BIOS but has no onboard video. The only downside now is that I have just installed an MSI R9 270X graphics card, which is PCIe 3.0 whereas the board is PCIe 2.0.
+pezco. I had an Asrock 990FX Killer for awhile before I jumped to skylake. Pushed my FX 6200 to 4.7 stable with 1.4v. Wasn't a bad board. Wish I wasn't too pussy to mess with voltages while I had the Sabertooth 990FX, maybe I could have gotten a bit further.
+Jonathan Peden That last bit isn't really a con. Graphics cards still have not reached a point where they get bottleneck'd by PCIe 2.0 even running at x8.
Jak Well that just cheered me up, thanks! What I forgot to mention about my mobo is that it refuses to detect Samsung mechanical HDDs - I did some compatibility research and it seems it only likes Seagate and WD drives, so I got a WD (I needed more space anyway). Samsung 850 EVO SSD' work perfectly though...bloody computers :-)
Wow, that was actually a really good Segway into the ad read
Linus:
Please be the good guy among all the geeks and stop talking about 3 or 4 and even more powersupply phases for the cpu.
Phase has nothing to do with it. Phase requires a time component to be measure against which is simply not there in DC. Phase is an AC thing, and AC has no place near a CPU.
I had written a thorough technical explaination about the whys and hows from electronic engineering's point of view, but it disappeard before I finished. So I don't wanna do it all over again.
But the number of phases as you say do not mean that it is better (with more). This is a load balancing / efficiency trick done by the engineer that designed it, and is a VERY good design. But the phases you talk of, is correctly refered to as rails when it comes to DC.
AC however - phase is correct. a 3 phase AC supply is also for load balancing / eficiency.
I doubt that I can say anything to correct these wrongs in the whole interwebz geek communities, but it is how it is.
Doesn't phase refer to the slight time offset of the square waves created by the controller? If so isn't it the right term to use?
I thought chokes help against spikes and store a little electromagnetic energy, while capacitors store energy, allowing them to smooth small spikes but mainly to cover small drops of power.
is that correct?
Can I use VRM on potatoes?
Whats starts with "A" and ends with Attention Seeker.
+Sam Smella AAttention Seeker
+Sam Smella You had one job.
I'm so sick of these retarded potato jokes... HURR DURR POTATOES ARE SO FUNNY AND RANDOM
don't give me electricity
I've been studying to become a+ certified, and goddamn does this channel help. great job, guys!
Linus, have you been working out? ;D
+Daryl Miller Linus Pec tips
+Stephen Shaw (Undeadmac) That's gold
+Daryl Miller linus hard tips
+Daryl Miller why do you say that?
+Stephen Shaw (Undeadmac) Lmfao
I innocently tried to shorten 'as fast as possible' ah AFAP, you never fail to amuse me!
Linus, you covered transparent displays, how would the iDriod from MGSV work?
Nanomachines, son.
you guys are really stepping up your segway skills
$400 graphics card didn't age well... XD
How times have flown man! I can now pick up a 10th gen i5, z490 board, 16gb 3600mhz, and a 1tb NVME SSD for less than the cost of my 4th gen budget build from back in 2014. Wowzers!
There can be more blocky things than actual phases so don't count on it.
Hey TQ. Could you do a video explaining what all things are replacable on a motherboard PCB? Is it even possible to get same performance if you have to get a couple of components changed?
1:27 MOSFETs humpimg
thank you linus i was searching for such info but cant find proper answer thanks again
dayum Linus, you said you'd do something about colors in one of the previous videos. you seem pretty anemic to me, but hey might just be your face :D
Is it worth it to put heatsinks also on the inductor cubes?
Me in 2023: $400 for a GPU? That's cute.
You can have really great GPU for 400$ in 2024. Like a 7700XT or a used 7800XT.
It's also really important to look at how many bicoupling capacitors each flux phase uses. Cheaper motherboards tend to like to use older ferrite core capacitors which can interfere with the operational transconductance amplifiers on the board. This will likely cause the SMPS linear regulators to overheat causing BSODs. But most important is that they only use C0G capacitors and not NP0 or X7R as they are way too flux dependent and will cause system instability due to their inherent Torrential Cascade Effect transistors.
Was it just me or did it seem like Linus was utterly bewildered saying the upcoming AMD Zen is going to be more power efficient?
Well their track record isn't too great...
well the current gen amd chips eat more power than their intel competitors(im looking at you 9590)
+1250nick That's a very tame way to put it, and might I add it's been much longer than just the current generation.
+1250nick You do know it has been a few years right?AMD hasn't released a CPU...obviously the newer CPUs consume less than the CPUs before
+DavisSgt if you compare amd processors with intel processors that perform similarly, you'll find that amd tends to eat just a little more power. compare something like the fx 6300 to any i3, or fx 8350 to the i5-2xxx, 3xxx or 4xxx series(both of these comparisons are at similar pricepoints and performance) the amd chips would eat more power. google it if you dont believe me. amd these days only beat power consumption when you're using am1 or fm series processors with the iGPU for gaming
What a throwback, AMD is just about to become legendary with the cpu market's lord and savior Ryzen.
not like the colorgrading this time.
How many phases are good for 3400g oc and is b450 ds3h v2 and steel legend of have enough vrm for this?
skill cap for starcraft > skill cap for mobas
skill cap of starcraft > skill cap of any other game
+joe chu but is it a good thing though? it's not healthy in the long run, people stop playing it and it is very hard for new players to get in, it makes the community die out sometime in the near future
+joe chu wise words
At the bluescreen part at 1:58 the video started buffering then just stopped.
1:30 the MOSFET don't control the voltage. A separate IC switches the MOSFET to regulate the voltage.
lol talking about zen in 2015. we still dont have it....
Not so long now
Video gets stuck at 1:58 does it happening for any others?
This has been the most technically incorrect description of VRM's on the Internet! So far... Read some technical books on DC-DC converters!
+Dan L He's literally saying that the grass is blue. For starters MOSFET's do not deliver anything related to VOLTAGE. They are just switching ON and OFF with the PWM applied to their gates (hence the term switch mode power supply) in order to deliver CURRENT! Chokes do not stabilize anything. They form a low-pass filter (with the capacitor) so that the output is restored back to DC (from PWM). Sometimes the filter is also called a reconstruction filter.
They should really get a technical editor with some degree of electronics education.
+Ventsislav Simonov You must be new to LinusSponsoredTips....
+Dan L None of these guys have the credentials to be able to talk about these kinds of things. It's more like "Linus Wikipedia gloss over tips." tips. The amount of incorrect terminology and explanations is a nightmare. He should stick to reviews.
the thumbnail for this video had me cracking up.
Lol... a joke about expensive $400 GPU’s 😝
Transformers don't perform any sort of wave rectification (the process of AC->DC). They simply step up or down the voltage according to the number of turns on the primary and secondary coils.
Wave rectification (half or full) is achieved by diodes which block and redirect the flow of positive and negative voltages. The result would be ~110-120v @120Hz :3
You're welcome.
I'm replacing a proprietary H310 motherboard with a Z390 for my Intel 8700K CPU. The listing for the new MB shows significant heatsinks on the VRM, but when I got it, they were missing. The mounting holes are there for them, but I can't find parts like that anywhere online. How do I get those heatsinks aftermarket?
How do you tell if a motherboard has solid state capacitors? From what I've seen the specification pages when browsing motherboards also don't say anything about that.
Linus, why do you call a large block of IC's mosfet? Mosfet is a single really tiny transistor. The example IC chip that you provided contain like 4 - 6 of them.
One animation in this video, even much better reach Linus! Now Aug 2021
Even if most of this is old news to me, I always enjoy listening to the sweet music of Linus explaining tech things.
Question time ! If I replace the fan/heatsink combo on the processor with a waterblock, what do I need to do to ensure MOSFETs are kept cool ?
Edit : I was in somewhat of a hurry when I typed this question. Here is some more background.
I am going to replace my mobo for an AsRock H77M-ITX (no VRM heatsink) and my case for a SilverStone SG13. I have an i7-3770 with stock fan/heatsink, which won't fit the SG13. As I understand it, the fan of the processor creates enough airflow for the MOSFETs to keep cool, which means that most often MOSFETs don't require more cooling to keep them running. When all that's said and done, replacing the fan/heat spreader by a water block means that there won't be any airflow anymore on the MOSFETs. And considering the SB13 on top of this, I really start to wonder if the MOSFETs will support this treatment.
Should I consider copper heatsinks ?
Another question. The radiator for the water-cooler will be on the front panel. If I turn it inward, how hot would the interior of the case run ?
So... How many VRMs a good motherboard has? Is there a specific material they have to be made of or a certification of quality they need to have? Maybe a specific manufacturer?
Please answer.
1:23 volts are the unit of power now?
Linus, you managed to get not even one of the actual purposes of the components correct. Good job!
It's nice to know that I'm not the only EE around here.
Is it a good idea to use adhesive thermal dissipators to increase the VRMs performance on low end mobos?
Linus, my only suggestion is to just keep doing what you have always done!!!