44:05 - 45:55 Thank you for articulating that point for me! We'll never get anywhere framing these things as a 'debate' with a 'right' side and a 'wrong' side.
Never heard about Dark Mountain before, but this has been so reassuring for me -for all the reasons these people list as responses from others. It is giving me hope - that we as human beings are able to grow up to the challenges which are consequences of our ignorance, foolishness, blindness and delusive stories.....Thank you for the honesty and courage behind these ideas!
Grief is important... Everyone will die... Sitting with grief and the reality of the end of things is not giving up... Getting real about the things that are still useful to do... The importance of stories and the need to retell the stories that brought this violence... Glad to hear what they have learned over five years.
Not having answers we often find them. Our loss can be our gain. Our grief will humble us..the old people one time always reminded themselves of their accompanying death .now no one is old
These fine men need to read the book, Not-Two Is Peace. Sounds like they are definitely doing some good in the world. Dark Mountain. UNcivilization! Good work, but PLEASE--check out the book, Not-Two Is Peace. The underlying "problem" in all of human history is only egoity, the ego, the sense of separate self, the sense of separation, which is a false sense. It is not the cause of our difficulties, but the very source---and source is prior to cause.
Thank you Leonard, for your insight into the source our our difficulties as humans. Our perception of separateness combined with an attitude of superiority toward all life forms more than human creates the paradox that we must address, in my opinion. Cutting through this perception to arrive at clarity is the central theme of my work with www.DeepNatureJourneys.com
it's a fine line. jerry rubin and abbie hoffman started out with great energy or flower power, but they too ended up on the speech circuit with faux debates.
Very interesting and insightful comment. I wonder if these two guys are familiar with Patrick Moore, former Greenpeace co-founder, now known as 'the rational environmentalist'? There is a lot of sentimental self indulgence in this talk, which I'm sure Dr Moore would thoroughly discredit, on purely scientific grounds. The talk of mass extinctions, for example: do they not know that earth has suffered many mass extinctions in the course of its history, all long before anything remotely resembling humans arrived on the scene? Species come; species go: is that really an occasion for grieving? I think not.
Here in 2022. Hmmm, 13 years ago and little has changed in reality. Dark Mountain type thinkers are still a tiny tiny cohort. Denial is still the norm. When you live in a bubble of like-minded thinkers, you THINK a lot more people are changing than actually are. I've been Dark Mountain-minded for around 35 years, lived both in and out of civilisation, and have read all their stuff and tried to share it with folk. Still, very very few get my point ... because I don't join groups or movements -- to feel comfy, wanted by others, talk in an echo chamber, feel empowered, messianic, self-congratulatory, change-the-world work. It's a thin line between living the change you want to see, sharing that with others, and proselytising "the way forwards". I disagree vehemently with these two that we need "new narratives". NO! We need to de-narrative, un-story our own minds. Living right in the present is the undeniable reality. It does NOT NEED any intermediation representation, ie storry, narrative. Who's to say the new ones are not formed from delusions? Just get clear, find direct perception of extant reality. Fuck all stories. All stories are the problem. Real life is in fact unscripted, but these two "writers" are too attached to the very concept of stories being necessary. Children like stories, but adults should be free of them. Those who cannot see and think for themself need stories. They are a crutch and just explanations for the unknowns we encounter. Be it religion or science -- same thing. Biblical or laboratory, each moment of reality exists without them both.
Well said, Dolphin. Enough talk- just do ! If folks ask- tell them, but do not break their arm....explain your ways. Every day is many large and small ways.
@@lancejohnson127 Children need stories. Unconscious morons need stories, ie fictional representations of reality. One does NOT need stories to survive. THAT is just a cute narrative you have swallowed. People made up and told stories out of fear and ignorance. Old superstitions invented stories of gods because they did not have understandings (sciences) of how things worked. "God/s" filled in the gaps. Likewise, my life is not "a story". It has been a reality. It does not need mythologising, fictionalising into some metaphor of poetic meaningfulness.
@@lancejohnson127 The only reason anyone says "there is no such thing as ..." is because they have not experienced it themselves. Eg, 200 years ago "there was no such thing as" a way to communucate in real time between Sydney and London. Eg, If you live a miserable life, you'll walk around saying "there's no such thing as happiness". That's just your own story, ie, limited reality.
And if you want the black pilled version, imagine how a fractured and racially balkanised British society in 25 years reacts to environmental catastrophe...
44:05 - 45:55 Thank you for articulating that point for me! We'll never get anywhere framing these things as a 'debate' with a 'right' side and a 'wrong' side.
Never heard about Dark Mountain before, but this has been so reassuring for me -for all the reasons these people list as responses from others. It is giving me hope - that we as human beings are able to grow up to the challenges which are consequences of our ignorance, foolishness, blindness and delusive stories.....Thank you for the honesty and courage behind these ideas!
Grief is important... Everyone will die... Sitting with grief and the reality of the end of things is not giving up... Getting real about the things that are still useful to do... The importance of stories and the need to retell the stories that brought this violence... Glad to hear what they have learned over five years.
Not having answers we often find them. Our loss can be our gain. Our grief will humble us..the old people one time always reminded themselves of their accompanying death .now no one is old
That poem is absolutely remarkable🤔
Where can I get the citations? Anyone
These fine men need to read the book, Not-Two Is Peace. Sounds like they are definitely doing some good in the world. Dark Mountain. UNcivilization! Good work, but PLEASE--check out the book, Not-Two Is Peace. The underlying "problem" in all of human history is only egoity, the ego, the sense of separate self, the sense of separation, which is a false sense. It is not the cause of our difficulties, but the very source---and source is prior to cause.
Thank you Leonard, for your insight into the source our our difficulties as humans. Our perception of separateness combined with an attitude of superiority toward all life forms more than human creates the paradox that we must address, in my opinion. Cutting through this perception to arrive at clarity is the central theme of my work with www.DeepNatureJourneys.com
Guy with shorter hair has wisdom on his tongue greater than any previous prophet. He might be the next Lao tzu or Jesus christ
"Meaningful action". That's what matters Hope should have a real food to live on Right ?
nature, you can romanticize it, or turn it into toilet paper. that's the real dark mountain we are facing today.
Or...to put it another way, the Dark Mountain project is 'group therapy' for semi-retired activists suffering from PTSD.
it's a fine line. jerry rubin and abbie hoffman started out with great energy or flower power, but they too ended up on the speech circuit with faux debates.
Very interesting and insightful comment.
I wonder if these two guys are familiar with Patrick Moore, former Greenpeace co-founder, now known as 'the rational environmentalist'?
There is a lot of sentimental self indulgence in this talk, which I'm sure Dr Moore would thoroughly discredit, on purely scientific grounds.
The talk of mass extinctions, for example: do they not know that earth has suffered many mass extinctions in the course of its history, all long before anything remotely resembling humans arrived on the scene?
Species come; species go: is that really an occasion for grieving?
I think not.
Here in 2022.
Hmmm, 13 years ago and little has changed in reality. Dark Mountain type thinkers are still a tiny tiny cohort. Denial is still the norm. When you live in a bubble of like-minded thinkers, you THINK a lot more people are changing than actually are.
I've been Dark Mountain-minded for around 35 years, lived both in and out of civilisation, and have read all their stuff and tried to share it with folk. Still, very very few get my point ... because I don't join groups or movements -- to feel comfy, wanted by others, talk in an echo chamber, feel empowered, messianic, self-congratulatory, change-the-world work.
It's a thin line between living the change you want to see, sharing that with others, and proselytising "the way forwards".
I disagree vehemently with these two that we need "new narratives". NO! We need to de-narrative, un-story our own minds. Living right in the present is the undeniable reality. It does NOT NEED any intermediation representation, ie storry, narrative. Who's to say the new ones are not formed from delusions? Just get clear, find direct perception of extant reality. Fuck all stories. All stories are the problem. Real life is in fact unscripted, but these two "writers" are too attached to the very concept of stories being necessary. Children like stories, but adults should be free of them. Those who cannot see and think for themself need stories. They are a crutch and just explanations for the unknowns we encounter. Be it religion or science -- same thing. Biblical or laboratory, each moment of reality exists without them both.
Well said, Dolphin.
Enough talk- just do !
If folks ask- tell them, but do not break their arm....explain your ways.
Every day is many large and small ways.
what you have written above - is yet another story.
@@lancejohnson127
Children need stories. Unconscious morons need stories, ie fictional representations of reality. One does NOT need stories to survive. THAT is just a cute narrative you have swallowed. People made up and told stories out of fear and ignorance. Old superstitions invented stories of gods because they did not have understandings (sciences) of how things worked. "God/s" filled in the gaps. Likewise, my life is not "a story". It has been a reality. It does not need mythologising, fictionalising into some metaphor of poetic meaningfulness.
@@lancejohnson127
No. YOUR LIFE is based on the stories YOU TELL YOURSELF.
@@lancejohnson127
The only reason anyone says "there is no such thing as ..." is because they have not experienced it themselves. Eg, 200 years ago "there was no such thing as" a way to communucate in real time between Sydney and London. Eg, If you live a miserable life, you'll walk around saying "there's no such thing as happiness". That's just your own story, ie, limited reality.
And if you want the black pilled version, imagine how a fractured and racially balkanised British society in 25 years reacts to environmental catastrophe...