Justin, again a very thought provoking video. It’s refreshing to hear your exploration of the quantum world in context of consciousness. Like Roger Penrose, you challenge the scientific status quo - which is after all how new discoveries are made. Keep up the good work!
41:46 I like the idea. This would make the quantum soul essentially the 'user' of the quantum computer which is directing the collapse of the wave function through intention.
@@JustinRiddle Dear Doctor Riddle Can one believe in 'soul" that isn't immortal? Example: Dualists want a soul independent from material substrate for Cousciousness. But let's do a though experiment: brain transplants are possible now! But. It's unclear for empirical science wherever transplanting living brain lobe or something from living brain of another person looks like possession. Dualists are going to insist that "of course it's only delusion of possession because soul is brain independent". After Life saving is all that they care. But if I would like to say. No there's a "soul" but it holds to the brain tissue all the time as long as it has enough Quantum Oscillations. Cousciousness dies when the body dies but in that case these posttransplant symptoms may indeed be possession. You may not like it and I don't like perspective of brain transplants neither but could that line of argumentatation against brain transplants hold water. And convinced anyone if let's say Orch Or Theory will be proven beyond doubt?! I honestly don't care about After Life but I care for having solid metaphysical not only moral arguments against brain transplants that should be a matter of decades at most. So please answer me do you think such "soul" outrageous for both Materialists and Cartesians plausible? It's not less rational than After Life which I don't care for
The mind processes these various shows, or as l like to call them, scenarios or possibilities. All these possibilities interfere with each other until they collapse to form beliefs or intentions. The lower animals react out of instinct to what they see. But we humans have an extra layer of interpretations that we have to sort through. We have to weigh the possible interpretations to come to beliefs that we can act on. It's this set of core beliefs that is the self that adjudicates between all the thoughts/scenarios/possibilities. It's the self, or more specifically, your set of core beliefs, that is prioritizing or weighting the various scenarios to form intentions to act.
I agree. I've been reading Higher Order Thought theory where information needs to be reflected upon by higher levels. We must be near or at the top of the information abstraction hierarchy. I am curious about this idea of core values, I wonder how this would manifest in the physical / quantum world
@@JustinRiddle I think it has to do with our mortality. "To be, or not to be. That is the question." We are the only creatures that can contemplate the end of our existence, whether we continue, somehow, or simply cease to exist. When we consider the meaning of our lives as a whole, we are thinking, "We are alive, therefore what?" If we simply cease to exist at death, then we are saying to ourselves, "We live, therefore, ... nothing", which renders our lives meaningless. But if your life as a whole has meaning, then it implies more than non-existence. If it implies something, then there is more than this life that it implied.
If you understand Ancient Hindu texts example Bhagawad gita. It's been mentioned that our soul is a quantam physics phenomenon. It moves from one body to another after death. Til it reaches salvation state
Yes, Kabbalah offers a back door to salvation, via crossing the abyss or a black hole , perhaps a narcissist.....meeting one's higher self and actually becoming it by defining ones quantum "chi".....the vehicle of ascension is the way to travel.
I wonder how your “Nested Hierarchical Consciousness” could bridge Karl Pribram’s holographic model of the brain with the holographic principle of the universe… Could these ideas collectively support the notion of a cosmically holistic “soul” underlying each of our respective minds on a fundamental level to space & time? This to me approaches philosophical idealism. In that case, perhaps the question “What survives through time” could be reconstrued into “What aspect of ourselves is fundamental to / unconstrained by space & time?”
Hi David! I need to do some more Pribram deep-dives. The fractal computer idea reaches towards the timeless. You are right I did not discuss the idea that you become embedded into this higher level somehow.... more to think about
Yeah, anything that is in superposition would have this property, it wouldn't need to be supercooled or whatever, that just happens to be the requisite to make helium/litium etc attain the macroscopic superposition state. If the OR guys are right, then microtubules are doing this already just as they are. The superposition they create would no longer exist as or be reducible to or measurable by its constituent parts. That is a property of superposition in any form, it's not specific to things that are supercooled etc.
True. As you mention, it's important to remember that superposition is the natural state of things. The challenge is making the superposition stable and large enough to process something as complex as the human mind
Why do we need special quantum effects? The fact that we have signals propagating through a series of neurons and synapses acts like one path in a path integral. Since there are all sorts of these signals, they act together to form a type of path integral, which is another way of describing a wave function. So, yes, our minds act like wavefunctions, but at slower rate. Question: can a neural net simulate quantum mechanics?
There are framings where a neural network could simulate quantum mechanics but the simulation time exponentially increases and so a digital computer (neural network) would not be able to simulate anything sufficiently large in the quantum domain before taking billions of years. The open question is whether quantum computation is just some hyper efficient form of deterministic computation, in other words, like digital computation but able to handle exponentially growing search spaces
I saw something like that pilot consciousness you talked about whilst in an altered state. Dude was narrating about how that's exactly what's happening. haha wild man, wild.
I delieve when we dream our consciousness goes into a free form state within the quantum realm and the dreams arise from a paradox of uncertainty. I also believe it's the realm we go to in the after life, because our memories are free from the physical restrains of the brain and have no other option but to roam the quantum realm in free form, we use our memories to form dreams and we can interact with other souls that we have became entangled with during our lifetime, and this will either last forever or until another reincarnation. Just a wild theory that I have little evidence for.. haha
I think you are right. When we dream, we are no longer processing information about the world through our senses. But we are sorting out our memories of the day and seeing how they fit in with the rest of out world view, beliefs, and intentions. And likewise, when we die we no longer process information from the world. But if we still exist, then we are left to sort out our memories, beliefs, and intentions. In other words, we go through a life review and discover how our beliefs and intentions are consistent with the now obvious eternal life. Is this eternal life consistent with our beliefs as demonstrated by our deed?
I'm enjoying this discussion. Little evidence but that would give our lives so much meaning, right??? It is wild that we enter into this fantastical dream state each night and then just about our days
@@JustinRiddle There are two ways that evidence for the afterlife can be obtained. One is, of course, direct experience. Go to the hospital and have them stop your heart and brain function for a few minutes. Then be revived and report what you saw, if anything. The second is to simply accept the logic that there is no other observable alternative except that there be an afterlife. Since you cannot possibly observe non-existence, the theory of no afterlife is not falsifiable, so that science rules it out as a valid theory. The only remaining option that is observable is an afterlife.
Yeah, ok a lot of interesting ideas and theories, but essentially its all a lot of hand waving and he cant put it into a mathematical statement. Kinda like if Newton said "there's this interaction between masses" but for got to write down mM/r^2
A coincidental continuity would still fit the Theravada Buddhist "Anatman". I know, in a sense Anatman is literally a No-Soul model of consciousness, but I'd argue that the point of subjective catalyst, the perceptual eye of experience is all Im looking for in Atman. I see Anatman as merely the additional reminder than this is an action, not a substance. As such, I tend to think Quantum-Computing qualia, or choices either-way to me that seems to qualify as an Atman, if not an Anatman "soul." I must say I prefer withholding the term Holographic Principle for the undeniable/avoidable inference that the 3rd dimension is somehow not physically real, or is actually inaccessible by us so called 3d beings, because of the strikingly coincidental ratio of mass to volume in the Swathchild Radius; The term Principle illustrates the distinction of the underlying fact of that Swathchild Radius leaves only room for a 2D universe to exist if Relativity is true, and Holographic Universe Theories trying to produce a cosmology that explains it. One of the most compelling elements of Qmind is the possibility of it explaining the synthesis of the two kinds of physical time we see (block-universe, or superposition "now"), and some time-traveling quantum-computing that spans an assembly of plank temporal quanta (frequencies, etc) that comprises superposision 5d possibilities into 4d actualities across the block in an kind of eternal process of physical synthesis. I think that the Pilot part of the theory is certainly not limited to Q-consciousness theories; Isnt that Pilot kinda the idea of the gestalt patchwork of the psycholinguistic mental negative and the visual cortex imagination, or auditory bicameral schizoid mind into a "community" of traded off continuity and self-concept? I see that the significant element to this Hammeroff Q-Pilot is the notion of the single-wave form generating the continuity of computing elements within the processing and across time (nano-sec), but I think all we ever needed for psychological cohesive identity was access to the same memories. I think Q Consciousness is fascinating, but Ive also become worried about it; We've already made quantum computers, and Id like to find that threshold of complexity where we're going to draw the line, and say "this AI can suffer" so must be treated as a being. I know we can be confident that Lamda the talk bot was a philosophical zombie/simulacrum, but if we put those same machine learning processes to work in even an existing quantum computing system, I don't know if that program can can't truly suffer, experience, and feel. I think its going to be an important thing to know. The Miyazaki paper seems to show that the nano-tubules q-processing electric signal is the same electric signal being put off by enter living neurons and neuron clusters, only amped up by a few steps to be right in range to cause productive or destructive interference with the neural clusters chemo-electric processing. In a ways, I guess, after reading that a few times I though to myself "well that's IT then; Quantum computing in the mind is proven fact." Can you illustrate were this may not be as clear cut as it been seeming?
I have trouble understanding the extreme need of some to link consciousness to quantum physics. None of the concepts in quantum physics you talked about were linked to the brains production of consciousness in a coherent way. It seems like these kinds of videos start with quantum physics in one hand and consciousness in the other and sloppily try drawing parallels between them. If consciousness is a quantum process, then that finding should come directly out of studying the brain itself. Rather than deciding you want the answer to be quantum and then trying to make it fit (and in the process of doing so revealing a lack of solid understanding of either quantum physics or neuroscience)
Justin, again a very thought provoking video. It’s refreshing to hear your exploration of the quantum world in context of consciousness. Like Roger Penrose, you challenge the scientific status quo - which is after all how new discoveries are made.
Keep up the good work!
41:46 I like the idea. This would make the quantum soul essentially the 'user' of the quantum computer which is directing the collapse of the wave function through intention.
the intro song makes me really happy for some reason.
I love your channel. Felt like writing this comment before watching the episode.
Thanks for the uploads @Justin Riddle. Super interesting subject matter.
Thanks for watching!
@@JustinRiddle Dear Doctor Riddle Can one believe in 'soul" that isn't immortal?
Example: Dualists want a soul independent from material substrate for Cousciousness. But let's do a though experiment: brain transplants are possible now! But. It's unclear for empirical science wherever transplanting living brain lobe or something from living brain of another person looks like possession. Dualists are going to insist that "of course it's only delusion of possession because soul is brain independent". After Life saving is all that they care. But if I would like to say. No there's a "soul" but it holds to the brain tissue all the time as long as it has enough Quantum Oscillations. Cousciousness dies when the body dies but in that case these posttransplant symptoms may indeed be possession.
You may not like it and I don't like perspective of brain transplants neither but could that line of argumentatation against brain transplants hold water. And convinced anyone if let's say Orch Or Theory will be proven beyond doubt?!
I honestly don't care about After Life but I care for having solid metaphysical not only moral arguments against brain transplants that should be a matter of decades at most.
So please answer me do you think such "soul" outrageous for both Materialists and Cartesians plausible?
It's not less rational than After Life which I don't care for
The mind processes these various shows, or as l like to call them, scenarios or possibilities. All these possibilities interfere with each other until they collapse to form beliefs or intentions. The lower animals react out of instinct to what they see. But we humans have an extra layer of interpretations that we have to sort through. We have to weigh the possible interpretations to come to beliefs that we can act on. It's this set of core beliefs that is the self that adjudicates between all the thoughts/scenarios/possibilities. It's the self, or more specifically, your set of core beliefs, that is prioritizing or weighting the various scenarios to form intentions to act.
I agree. I've been reading Higher Order Thought theory where information needs to be reflected upon by higher levels. We must be near or at the top of the information abstraction hierarchy. I am curious about this idea of core values, I wonder how this would manifest in the physical / quantum world
@@JustinRiddle I think it has to do with our mortality. "To be, or not to be. That is the question." We are the only creatures that can contemplate the end of our existence, whether we continue, somehow, or simply cease to exist. When we consider the meaning of our lives as a whole, we are thinking, "We are alive, therefore what?" If we simply cease to exist at death, then we are saying to ourselves, "We live, therefore, ... nothing", which renders our lives meaningless. But if your life as a whole has meaning, then it implies more than non-existence. If it implies something, then there is more than this life that it implied.
@@mikejurney9102 I seriously doubt we're the only species with existential anxiety, but how could we ever really know?
For a start, we can look at mourning behaviors in animals. Corvids have funeral, for example. Look into the work of Kaeli Swift for example.
Thanks
12:00
Justin: "And what's super cool about this is..."
Me: "The temperature of the Helium?" :D
If you understand Ancient Hindu texts example Bhagawad gita. It's been mentioned that our soul is a quantam physics phenomenon. It moves from one body to another after death. Til it reaches salvation state
Yes, Kabbalah offers a back door to salvation, via crossing the abyss or a black hole , perhaps a narcissist.....meeting one's higher self and actually becoming it by defining ones quantum "chi".....the vehicle of ascension is the way to travel.
I wonder how your “Nested Hierarchical Consciousness” could bridge Karl Pribram’s holographic model of the brain with the holographic principle of the universe…
Could these ideas collectively support the notion of a cosmically holistic “soul” underlying each of our respective minds on a fundamental level to space & time? This to me approaches philosophical idealism.
In that case, perhaps the question “What survives through time” could be reconstrued into “What aspect of ourselves is fundamental to / unconstrained by space & time?”
Hi David! I need to do some more Pribram deep-dives. The fractal computer idea reaches towards the timeless. You are right I did not discuss the idea that you become embedded into this higher level somehow.... more to think about
Yeah, anything that is in superposition would have this property, it wouldn't need to be supercooled or whatever, that just happens to be the requisite to make helium/litium etc attain the macroscopic superposition state. If the OR guys are right, then microtubules are doing this already just as they are. The superposition they create would no longer exist as or be reducible to or measurable by its constituent parts. That is a property of superposition in any form, it's not specific to things that are supercooled etc.
True. As you mention, it's important to remember that superposition is the natural state of things. The challenge is making the superposition stable and large enough to process something as complex as the human mind
Great videos you are one of my new favourite you tubers
Woo! Thanks
Why do we need special quantum effects? The fact that we have signals propagating through a series of neurons and synapses acts like one path in a path integral. Since there are all sorts of these signals, they act together to form a type of path integral, which is another way of describing a wave function. So, yes, our minds act like wavefunctions, but at slower rate.
Question: can a neural net simulate quantum mechanics?
There are framings where a neural network could simulate quantum mechanics but the simulation time exponentially increases and so a digital computer (neural network) would not be able to simulate anything sufficiently large in the quantum domain before taking billions of years. The open question is whether quantum computation is just some hyper efficient form of deterministic computation, in other words, like digital computation but able to handle exponentially growing search spaces
What is the essence and physical foundation of memory?
If you’re interested in the quantum soul from a consciousness perspective I recommend reading the law of one!
I saw something like that pilot consciousness you talked about whilst in an altered state. Dude was narrating about how that's exactly what's happening. haha wild man, wild.
I delieve when we dream our consciousness goes into a free form state within the quantum realm and the dreams arise from a paradox of uncertainty. I also believe it's the realm we go to in the after life, because our memories are free from the physical restrains of the brain and have no other option but to roam the quantum realm in free form, we use our memories to form dreams and we can interact with other souls that we have became entangled with during our lifetime, and this will either last forever or until another reincarnation. Just a wild theory that I have little evidence for.. haha
I think you are right. When we dream, we are no longer processing information about the world through our senses. But we are sorting out our memories of the day and seeing how they fit in with the rest of out world view, beliefs, and intentions. And likewise, when we die we no longer process information from the world. But if we still exist, then we are left to sort out our memories, beliefs, and intentions. In other words, we go through a life review and discover how our beliefs and intentions are consistent with the now obvious eternal life. Is this eternal life consistent with our beliefs as demonstrated by our deed?
I'm enjoying this discussion. Little evidence but that would give our lives so much meaning, right???
It is wild that we enter into this fantastical dream state each night and then just about our days
@@JustinRiddle There are two ways that evidence for the afterlife can be obtained. One is, of course, direct experience. Go to the hospital and have them stop your heart and brain function for a few minutes. Then be revived and report what you saw, if anything. The second is to simply accept the logic that there is no other observable alternative except that there be an afterlife. Since you cannot possibly observe non-existence, the theory of no afterlife is not falsifiable, so that science rules it out as a valid theory. The only remaining option that is observable is an afterlife.
What do you mean by afterlife?
Yeah, ok a lot of interesting ideas and theories, but essentially its all a lot of hand waving and he cant put it into a mathematical statement. Kinda like if Newton said "there's this interaction between masses" but for got to write down mM/r^2
A coincidental continuity would still fit the Theravada Buddhist "Anatman". I know, in a sense Anatman is literally a No-Soul model of consciousness, but I'd argue that the point of subjective catalyst, the perceptual eye of experience is all Im looking for in Atman. I see Anatman as merely the additional reminder than this is an action, not a substance. As such, I tend to think Quantum-Computing qualia, or choices either-way to me that seems to qualify as an Atman, if not an Anatman "soul."
I must say I prefer withholding the term Holographic Principle for the undeniable/avoidable inference that the 3rd dimension is somehow not physically real, or is actually inaccessible by us so called 3d beings, because of the strikingly coincidental ratio of mass to volume in the Swathchild Radius; The term Principle illustrates the distinction of the underlying fact of that Swathchild Radius leaves only room for a 2D universe to exist if Relativity is true, and Holographic Universe Theories trying to produce a cosmology that explains it.
One of the most compelling elements of Qmind is the possibility of it explaining the synthesis of the two kinds of physical time we see (block-universe, or superposition "now"), and some time-traveling quantum-computing that spans an assembly of plank temporal quanta (frequencies, etc) that comprises superposision 5d possibilities into 4d actualities across the block in an kind of eternal process of physical synthesis.
I think that the Pilot part of the theory is certainly not limited to Q-consciousness theories; Isnt that Pilot kinda the idea of the gestalt patchwork of the psycholinguistic mental negative and the visual cortex imagination, or auditory bicameral schizoid mind into a "community" of traded off continuity and self-concept? I see that the significant element to this Hammeroff Q-Pilot is the notion of the single-wave form generating the continuity of computing elements within the processing and across time (nano-sec), but I think all we ever needed for psychological cohesive identity was access to the same memories.
I think Q Consciousness is fascinating, but Ive also become worried about it; We've already made quantum computers, and Id like to find that threshold of complexity where we're going to draw the line, and say "this AI can suffer" so must be treated as a being. I know we can be confident that Lamda the talk bot was a philosophical zombie/simulacrum, but if we put those same machine learning processes to work in even an existing quantum computing system, I don't know if that program can can't truly suffer, experience, and feel. I think its going to be an important thing to know.
The Miyazaki paper seems to show that the nano-tubules q-processing electric signal is the same electric signal being put off by enter living neurons and neuron clusters, only amped up by a few steps to be right in range to cause productive or destructive interference with the neural clusters chemo-electric processing. In a ways, I guess, after reading that a few times I though to myself "well that's IT then; Quantum computing in the mind is proven fact."
Can you illustrate were this may not be as clear cut as it been seeming?
The soul is to the mind what reverb is to music
Nice video, but I'm interested in how by Orch OR would NDEs work?
Next episode! (#28)
Hi Justin long time no see love and light You^2 + Me^2 = C^2
I have trouble understanding the extreme need of some to link consciousness to quantum physics. None of the concepts in quantum physics you talked about were linked to the brains production of consciousness in a coherent way. It seems like these kinds of videos start with quantum physics in one hand and consciousness in the other and sloppily try drawing parallels between them. If consciousness is a quantum process, then that finding should come directly out of studying the brain itself. Rather than deciding you want the answer to be quantum and then trying to make it fit (and in the process of doing so revealing a lack of solid understanding of either quantum physics or neuroscience)
Because this channel is on the theorical side.
His talent is bigger than this sing and he knows it. Over it for sure....lol
Check out his song opera. Insane talent
@Justin Riddle Is it possible for the quantum information that is you to survive after death?
Next episode! (#28)
When do you think the next episode will be finished?
@@AbhiN_1289 Planning to film Saturday, sometimes takes a week to edit though
Soul = space-time
Mind/thinking = electromagnetic waves travel through space-time
I wish your channel get more subscribes so you get monetized for all this work