Honda's strange oval engine motorcycle was a failure
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2022
- The Honda NR500 and later production NR are some of the craziest motorcycles ever built by Honda Motor Company. And they didn't really succeed in the way we would imagine.
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Did a bit of motorcycle racing at the time. The gag was that NR stood for Nearly Ready, due to the race team's repeated promises that a competitive, reliable racer would soon be available. Don't think anyone ever solved the issue of unequal expansion of the piston under heating. The super-rare 750 road bike version is probably a beautifully engineered dog of a machine and unreliable as hell. I'd love to own one.
Wrench ride repeat! Just like a old Harley
Every Wednesday night, every other Friday & a TT every month/ or 1/2 mile! Open pits & dealers!
Autographs & smiles! 😀
" Gasoline" tested for every winner, to make sure no ody put the wrong stuff in the tank,' by mistake' 😀
I can remember that until the dementia Alzheimer's and social security runs out: of course then I can leave the United States and go to any country we fought against or with during World war II or they have national health care pension and education for our children their children and their children's children too bad isn't it and with the southern line in the sand~When I broke when I bankrupt we need several trillion dollars to get broke, Take care of our children our old people are sick people are hungry people are homeless people not really?
I guess the '50s & 60s are over?🇺🇸
There’s something special about high reving 4 strokes.
R6 or die
I agree, even though I'm partial to two strokes, stuff like the rc166 are just absolutely bonkers.
I never make it to 4 strokes… 😢
@@EliasTheHunter twos better anyway
@@davidlobaugh4490 He's talking about having a wank, mate.
I admire how you dig all these details about motorcycle history. Interestingly edited and narrated. Brilliant!
ah …men…
Google is a wonderful thing
Had a poster of the NR on my wall when I was a kid, on the reverse was Mick Doohan....Arai helmet colour same, but No.27t on his NSR....Sh*t I've got old!
My birthday is coming up in a couple of days I'm going to be 61 years old I can't believe that I was buying motorcycles in the '80s stereos in the '70s I seen some amazing bands in concert I've been through a lot of great times yes for the time definitely catches up I don't feel old my number tells me I'm old I don't feel it
Without a doubt, this was the craziest, most technologically beautiful road racing bikes I ever saw in my entire life. As a bicycle and component designer for a well-known Japanese S brand, back in the early 80s, the NR always inspired me to not only think outside the box, but to go way past that damn box. Incredibly at that time I was also racing 400 Production in AFM & ARRA in So Calif and was in the top 5 three years in a row. So, I just loved the NR and only hoped it would one day succeed. Sadly, it never did, but it my heart the NR was the best of the best. Someday I'll actually get to see all generations of the NR racers, the first being my favorite. Long Live brave technology, Long Live the NR Honda. Sincerely Dan, aka Mr onZa
I certainly hear what you are saying about the technology packed into this engine/bike. Aesthetically the first NR was pretty ugly with the lateral radiators, weird upper fairing/windscreen etc.😉 I too hoped the NR would fulfill its destiny as my first large road bike was a 1975 CB750F (which I still own and has been modified to produce 107 RWHP naturally aspirated.) I always thought of Honda as the teacher and the rest of the motorcycle industry the students.
I can't even imagine the Honda engine archives.....it's like trying to imagine how large the universe is.
A side note...the brother a very good friend of mine helped develop the bore gauge used for the NR. Honda contracted his firm which is....or at least was... located in Natick, Massachusetts.
@@mikerieck306 Just so you know on the first NR the fairing and headstock were one single fabricated unit and served as the frame with the swing arm bolted to the engine unit.
In the final versions raced once by Freddie Spencer and Ron Haslam had a conventional frame designed by Ron Williams who owns Maxton.
still got some Onza stickers... ✊
Damned Shimano is keeping me in the poor house.
@@philipjackson5818 I know it was a monocoque design. I also remember reading at the time it was extremely difficult to work on secondary to that design. I remember reading much later they had lots of problems with the connecting rods not running parallel which introduced twisting. I am not sure how Honda overcame that problem. The NR...and CBX... got a lot of attention back in 1979. I own a CBX too and I'm currently rebuilding the engine. High performance engine builds generally require shovels of money.....the CBX requires a larger shovel.😉
I use to work in a Honda dealership in the late 80's and use to dream of owning a NR, however the in house joke was that NR stood for never ready! We did get one NR in and we use to spend a lot of time looking at it and marvel that one side fairing cost more than a full Honda Melody (a common moped we use to sell at the time).
I remember you working there
@@ianmangham4570 Hey Ian I remember you, the retired stuntman!
@@leaflee2066 Amen, its a small world 🌎 🙏 😃🤟
I'm a 68 year old American man. I've owned a dozen bikes or so. My favorite was a VFR750F. Flickable bordering on intuitive. Smooth power delivery. Light.
For several hours riding corners it was heaven. More than that and my body hurt from the riding position.
The r&d honda puts into their bikes is a big reason why they're my favorite of the big 4.
The Honda V-4 interceptor and Magnas were sublime bikes to ride on a winding road. The sounds they made at 7,000+ RPM....ahhh.
They are a pain to work on.
There are about 23 o-rings/connectors for coolant system.
Being a 90 deg V, the carbs are a challenge to install.
The bike feels top heavy, at least compared to my Moto Guzzi.
Bike sounds great, looks good, but to work on is almost like a Harley, nore complicated and heavy then it needs to be.
I have watched several documentaries on the 'history' of Honda motorcycles and have yet to see the VF-1000R included in any of them.
When they first came out, along with the FJ-1200 and the V-Max, when the 'Superbike' articles came out, the Honda placed 3rd in the 1/4 mile: so everyone went out and bought the other two bikes.
I was on crutches after being run over and having buried my VF-750 Interceptor when my buddy at the local Honda shop called. "Dude, you gotta come see this bike."
Once I got it, I knew no one who had read those articles read any further than the 1/4 race.
Because if they had, they'd have learned that the VF finished third because the testers couldn't keep tires from shredding off the line. :D
Powerband was phenomenal. 100% there all the way through the tach'.
But never mentioned.
The tech' that came on that bike was DECADES ahead of its time. Nearly every bit of 'new tech' on them is now considered 'must have' on today's sport bikes.
So why is the bike never mentioned?
One of my greatest regrets was selling that bike. 20 years later I tracked it down and bought it back. :D
@@ridetillidie8090 I agree completely. I have an 84 vf1000f fully restored and love it. I am working on a fuel injection set up for it. I think it will be great if it works like intended
@@VashSpiegel I completely restored the one I own. I didnt find it any harder to work on than any other sport bike. My m900 ducati now that thing is incredibly easy to work on
@@VashSpiegel Grunt mechanic in a Honda shop in the '80's....I serviced so many it isn't real. Valve adjustment was just routine, and they were bullet-proof.
Scary fast those bikes were....I always preferred the Magna riding position.
There also was an NR 750 race bike that was raced in 1987 in Australia in our Swann International Series and the Le Mans 24 hr in 87 by Australian Mal Campbell . It was competitive on track with highly modified FZR 1000 based F1 bikes that were built by Warren Willing . To look at it resembled an RC 30 . They were saying it had 165 plus hp and weighed 155 kg .
A great video, if the NR500 was a failure, it was a glorious one!
I was at silverstone in 1979 standing on the first corner of its first race when it crashed after the start. Mick Grant was the rider, also in the same race they were filming footage for Silver Dream Racer featuring David Essex.
I was just before the first bend at that race! the engine blew up and the bike packed in! Now then I am sure that the rider was Rocket Ron Haslem from Bradford let's both of us check that? Liquid gold as a coolant I believe A complete embarrassment for a company which should have had more common.
Yes it was Mick Grant just down the road from Rocket Ron Also that 3rd class Silver Dream Racer film "Its a racing bike in it" from David Sussex was filmed at Donnington, a complete waste of fuel in my opinion.Also at Donnington the same day Korky Ballington was awarded or acknowledged his 250 and 350 crowns on his smart and very well prepared Kawasaki bikes.
Silver Dream shite er.
@@ASQUITHZ9 Ron is from Langley Mill, Derby.
@@SteeeveO Hi Steve swear blind he was from BD did his Dad have a scrap business in Bradford? Or something
Not to worry life's too short
Regards Jon
Not a failure...much learned...high marks for taking that path.
Agreed
Amen I always admire those that think outside the box.
Honda brand is one of the OG of motorcycles
Owned a Honda 750 Interceptor I believe it was a 1987? It was very similar in the color scheme of this bike. Was a great little bike for its day. Later on I acquired a Honda VFR 750 single sided swing armed bike with exhaust and a ton of other engine modifications to bring it back to more of a factory race bike. The torque of the V4 was insane with the top end and RPMs of the inline engines. Honda was the leaders in this industry when it came to 4 cycle racing and production engines capable of withstanding all the abuse and RPMs of a 2 stroke. The amazing part is, they were able to withstand this kind of abuse and do it reliably without quickly wearing out or blowing up! They made some amazing progress and produced the engineering that is still being used today by all these companies following in their shadows!
this is some great entertaintment. keep the great work up man
You are a very good storyteller. I am not into Hondas or four strokes at all, but I did enjoy this presentation.
I was working in Tokyo in 2000 when I saw a tagged NR parked on the side of the street. It was obviously used for daily transportation. It was raining that day, and the bike hadn't had a cleaning in quite some time. Even as a Honda hater, I teared up a bit when I saw it. The NR deserved to be treated better.
Better in service and running, than in a museum. Better to have a life and be used. And quite amazing that it can be used day-to-day
I admire Honda for investing so much time and money in researching alternatives to the two strokes.
Me too, although my 'newest' bike is a 1995 Suzuki, I have a lot more 1970's Honda's and Yamaha's (no CB750's though as stock they are an overweight under-powered lump)
I might be wrong, more than likely in fact.. but Honda did so much research on 4stroke engines during that time that it ended up killing 2strokes in competitions :/ And naturally it is easier to sell customer friendly bikes that look like the real deal. Luckily, proper fun snowmobiles are still 2stroke ;) And there are parts to revive old mx and 250cc/500cc RR with modern day tech... and tires, especially the tires.
I only know of 1 NR here in the USA, a friend has it in his house. I was surprised to learn he owns one, he was surprised I even knew what it was.
Bart, I have no idea how you do your research, but you find some super interesting facts. (Edit: and film footage too!)
Please keep up the great work!
There is a popular Samuel Beckett quote (as far as anything regarding to him may be "popular") that says "Try again. Fail again. Fail Better".
That's what Honda did in a very bold and influential way.
If the NR was an "absurd", it was a genial one, just like absurd plays of Beckett.
All the Best from Brazil. ✌
Be brave and take a risk. never be afraid of failure . You learn from your mistakes x
Beautiful motorcycle x
Oval pistons did work, in the 91 Sazuka 8hr Mick Doohan did a parade lap on the soon to be released NR750 and it had 210hp....Honda had to restrict it to 130hp before they would sell it to the public.
I had the pleasure of seeing this bike at it's first GP race at Silverstone for the British GP, I had a pit pass such as it was in those days and managed to hear the thing being started up in the pits, they had rollers to run it up but the noise even though it was heavily silenced it was loud.
Last time I seen it in a race was I recall 1980 again at Silerstone in the hands of Freddie Spencer who somehow managed to get it on the front row for the race but the bike overheated.
It's a pity the rules are so tight now as it is strangling innovation.
Thanks for the video. Also, I would add that Honda back then wasn't ruled by the boardroom.
I saw the bike in the flesh at Silverstone in 1979. Mick Grant riding. It burst into flames in the pit lane.
Shit fire!
Nicely done vid with the soul and emotion about Honda and it's purpose. Reminiscing this era and bike, I had a Kyosha model R/C of it.
amazing and very informative video, thanks for creating it! the NR is a really beautiful looking bike in my view.
Another better Vid by Bart, Thanks buddy I really enjoyed that, I sorta new a little bit about the oval pistons but you put it all together, thank you Cheers Karl Squire
The comments are also great entertainment!
I don't think I've ever done so many comments on one video?
I had a vr4. The hardest engine to do simple maintenance on. The carbs are the devil. But sound amazing
1982
First adoption of electronic fuel injection for a motorcycle
The CX500 Turbo was the first Honda motorcycle to be sold with fuel injection.
It wasn't a failure at all. Doesn't matter that it didn't win any GPs at the time, it was in a class of its own and no other manufacturer has been able to replicate it and so directly compete against it on level terms. That coupled with the technology both the race and road bikes used at the time makes it a technological marvel and also invaluable step in motorcycle development in my book.
Yea it may have been a flop, but the technology for the day was amazing. Poor Mick Grant didn't even make it to turn one at Silverstone if I remember correctly. I owned a CBX and a VFR750, and they were the two best bikes I ever owned! Great video.
The NR will always be my dream ride. Like my CX650 Turbo it was Honda proving what can be done with outside the box thinking.
CX500 turbo with wast- gate link removed was faster accelerating than Suzuki RG500 or Yamaha RD500. (I know because I test rode all three the same afternoon)
Waste-gate link installed, it was rather a boring 'greenhouse on wheels'
I remember calling Honda UK and asking how much boost it made with the link disconnected. They told me 'about 52psi' then asked for 'dealer number' so I told them it was a Suzuki shop. They never accepted any of my calls after that?
@@1crazypj All I know is with the plastic bodywork in the 650 was lighter than the 500. Never gave the waste gate a thought. Always dragged the rear brake, ripped the throttle, got full boost then hauled ass. I made my own air filter and that's all I changed motor-wise. Changed the bars and put 35,000 miles on it, every day ride. Shut it off 30 years ago and that's where it sits. My oldechanic said there are not parts left available and didn't thunk I could get the parts to rebuild the injectors. Also needs a new stator, of course. I really loved that bike. Very unique bike.
@@GrampsD63 I would check with Honda as they have always been excellent at superceeded parts from newer bikes. I 'play' with CB360's, you can get new OEM carb diaphragms for a 1974~77 'lmited' production bike that was something of a disaster and with 'everything' now fuel injected I'm sure they will have something with correct flow rate and even better atomization. I know what you mean about parking bike, when my 1977 CB550 hit ~106,000 miles I 'retired' it, probably around 1985. I still have it and may re-build it 'one day' (if I live long enough LOL)
@@1crazypj Might work. But for a one off bike I would tend to agree with my wrench. He took care of it from the time I bought it in '86. Still works at a shop close to me where I take my CBR1000RR. He was the only mechanic to work on the Turbos at the old Honda dealer where I bought it. A wealth of knowledge. And who knows those things were pretty solid. Might just be able to gas her up and start running, after I pull the motor and replace the stator. And hope no damage to the turbo or I'm really screwed.
Excellent script, audio, editing -- all production values.
there are two versions of that engine the race block was set up with the long portion of the bore being straight, the street engine bores had a slight oval to better seal the rings
All of that detail is mentioned in the video.
there were 4 variants, race 500, endurance 750, road 750 and prototype supercharged 250 V2
I had no idea that two strokes pushed out fours back in the day, I thought it all started with two strokes and it just stayed that way until the MotoGP rule changes to 998 fours and 500 twos
My first Honda was a Honda 400 Hawk two cylinders two carburetors I bought it used off the street for $500 was a great bike I brought it into Honda I let them adjust it to make sure that everything was good they did a little bit of adjusting to the rear brake and some other things and I was on my way then when I had a few more dollars I sold the bike for $500 exactly what I paid for it and I got a brand new Honda 650 Nighthawk it was in the box and the total I paid was $2,500 including taxes assembly plate and all that other good stuff great bike 4 cylinders four carburetors I got it in Black they also had it in red that was also in a box I remember they didn't have any on the display they were all in the side of the warehouse where the technicians were working on the motorcycles and assembling them this was a very big motorcycle shop in Staten Island New York back in the 80s
Dude, I love your content. Bring biker knowledge which is rear but essential for bike enthusiasts like me and other I believe 🤘🏼
Even if his report is incorrect on many counts.. but then he wasn't there to know.. ignorant of hind sight let alone facts
These are always interesting videos! Thanks!
Rumour has it that NR stood for 'Nearly Ready" or "Never Ready". For all intents and purposes, the NR was a V8 engine with siamesed pistons and cylinders to fall within the rules. The NR street bike was hugely expensive, but despite its huge price, it was a disappointment. At a time when the CBX made 105bhp and the Kawasaki KZ1300 made 120bhp, Honda's decision to cap the NR at 100bhp was a let down. One correction: the NR was *not* the first Japanese street bike with fuel injection. That honour goes to the 1980 Kawasaki Z1000 Classic.
More crazy then Honda!! I Guess MotoGuzzi did that in the 60s with the 500cc V8 4 Stroke engine.
To produce competitive horsepower a 4-stroke must rev higher. As I understood it Honda would have liked to have built a race engine with more than 4 cylinders but regulations kept them from doing so. So by melding two cylinders together, incorporating the same valve count as an eight cylinder engine would give them the valve area and breathing to reach those rpm levels and hopefully power output. Something tells me if time were given that the stalwart engineers at Honda would have succeeded. But at what cost? Honda fans loved it even in failure. It was like reaching for a dream.
Piston speed, reciprocating mass, never going to be a ultra high rever
Pretty sure the NR wasn't the first production bike to have fuel injection, I think that was the GPz750 turbo in 1983. Or there may have been some a few years before that
Z1000st 1980 ish
Then, Gpz1100 from 1981
There was a KZ1000 'Z1' model in 1981 that sold with multi point fuel injection.
right ! the 1983 cx650 turbo was injected
A friend had an early 80's Kawasaki Gpz1100 which had fuel injection.
I rode a NR750 in 1994 it belongs to a collector friend of mine in Australia..I don't know how many of them came to Aus but I'm told all of them came over as one only shipment...The bike I rode has less than 100km's on it even today.
Good to see the picture of Jack Finlay an Australia GP rider on Suzuki.
Jack had a picture of a Kangaroo on his helmet.
An Aussie Point Of View.
Great cover of Honda failing up. Another one to cover is the CX 500 Honda bastardized turned 90deg and dubbed the NS 750 for America GNC flat track only to Meta-Morphis into the RS 750 Harley killer that was eventually restricted in the name of fair play and Honda pulling the plug by the end of the 80s .
Not many people remember that one (I do though)
Bart is such a scholar in motorcycle history!
I love these videos. Yamaha and honda are my favorites. The 2 kings of motorcycles in my opinion
Honda didn't leave GP bike racing to concentrate on cars. Honda (and Suzuki) left GP bike racing because the FIM changed the rules for the 1970 season limiting the number of cylinders for each class; four for 500's, two for 250's, and one for 125's. Soichiro Honda did not like like two strokes. Honda had built it's reputation on four strokes and knew they could not compete with the two stroke 500 fours with a four stroke four. I was a racer and a race fan when it happened. It was in all the magazines.
There was a brief time around then they made a production 125 two stroke road racer based on the Elsinor motocross engine. It was so tiny and had a fairing IIRC. I had converted a CB160 for AAMRR road racing and i thought it was tidy until I got to sit on that little two stroke production racer.
@@whalesong999 That was the MT125R. I raced one a couple times when I was mostly racing the shop's TD1c. It was a little down on top end compared to the TA125 twins, but they had
years of development and tuning. It was fun at Sears Point but not to much at Ontario.
@@rangerlongshot Thanks. With a faltering recall, I decided to look it up and saw it came out in '77, later than I'd remembered. I bet it was fun. Yeah, Ontario would have been a long haul.
@@whalesong999 I only remember the RS 125 a few years after, I built a extra large (27litre) fuel tank for Ian Lougher to do the TT using a crash damaged Suzuki RG125 tank (the OEM Honda tank was over £1200 at the time) Lougher did race for Honda later (and I think Kawasaki?)
these kind of bikes are the best. love the videos
Nice one. Enjoyed that. Tnx
I wondered if this was going to be the bike with the crank spinning opposite the wheels. I don't think it was ever raced, just tested. The reason that motorcycle crank rotated in the same direction as the wheels made perfect sense with the earliest bikes. The concept was kept for many design generations and someone in Honda asked "Why?". Well, my info was that they found that the accidental standard worked better than the reverse spin bikes.
The crank in every modern MotoGP bikes spins 'backwards'. This is done to somewhat counteract the gyroscopic effect of having the heavy wheels/brakes/tires rotating in the same direction. Engines don't care what direction they are spinning. When I was racing MX and dirt track two strokes in the early/mid 70's it was possible for your bike to occasionally start and run in the opposite direction. You didn't know until you put it in gear and let out the clutch!
@@321CatboxWA My stepdad raced a BSA 441 Victor for a couple years. A four stroke can run in either direction but has to be set up that way. I've only ever seen it happen with two strokes. Interestingly, because they are used in pairs, the big block Chevy V8's used in offshore powerboat racing come set up to run in either direction. You buy a pair and mount them so they spin towards each other to counteract engine torque. Twin engine WWII fighters were set up the same way!
Great video Bro!
8:04 “the first Japanese production bike to feature fuel injection, upside down forks, magnesium wheels…” was there supposed to be an ‘and’ at the end of the list? It certainly wasn’t the first fuel injected Japanese production bike. I think Kawasaki has dibs on that. Even Honda got in on fuel injection in the early 80’s with the CX500 turbo.
KZ 1000 in 1981 had fuel injection system fitted.
@@howardosborne8647 With red and green LEDS that customers always played with screwing things up. We had one that came in every 2~3 weeks with the exact same 'problem' customer stating 'I never touched it'
Mal Campbell won on the NR 750 at Calder Park during Swann Series? Sure did sound good!
Honda also had an NR250 twin-turbo on the drawing board.
New Racing also known as Never Ready, a big middle finger to the rules of cylinder limitations
Yeah, I wonder if there wasn't a slight chuckle and twinkle in the eyes of Honda R&D as they set about poking that hole in the new rules. Overall, it didn't work out well but must've learned bunches.
Cool video! Not very often you get to see the internals. Wonderful sound. more like F1 car than bike. Wondering how many race and street bikes were made?
Fit new piston rings.....will certainly need to hone the cylinders by hand 😊
Edison said he never failed he just learned 1000 ways not to make a light bulb
Back in those days the word was that NR stood for ‘Never Ready’.
I have a 1982 Honda night hawk 650 4cylander parallel love the engine the carbs sometimes go out of sink all part of owning a vintage motorcycle
*cylinder *sync 4 carburetors, yes. Nice bike.
Did Honda get the oval piston idea from a tin of Spam? 🤔😄
Such exotic stuff, but why haven't they ever tried making a 5- or 6-stroke...
There's a NR roadbike at the motor museum in Brussels.
The first thing that comes to mind when hearing oval piston is fml, that thing will be a pain to get tight with asymmetrical thermal expansion of the piston, leaky as can be when cold or scraping the cylinder walls when warm...
At least they tried though :)
I don't see the rings ever sealing properly.
You say this is the first bike, but I thought the 1982 Honda CX500T Turbo was the first with digital fuel injection?
Can you please make a video about the history of the Blackbird CBR1100XX.
The NR's note while revving reminds me of a well-tuned Ducati.
The 1983 VF-750 had a slipper clutch/back-torque device. This was old-tech by the VR.
Honda were not the first to introduce a street bike with fuel injection. Kawasaki did in 1981 GPZ1100 and then mainstreamed it with the 1983 GPZ 1100 Unitrack.
Shoichiro
Sho-Ee-Chee-Ro
NR stood for.. Never ready..
Literally just watched a video on the NR last week.
Sad for 70’s, Grand Prix, then Honda set its sights on the world in the 80’s.
As for the 1980 Suzuka win, pit strategy is still strategy.
In most cases Honda meant reliability. In my most humble opinion Honda over engineered this race machine. Most of their endeavors were a success.
That is true but the Japanese engineers and designers were a totally arrogant bunch of pricks as well most of the time (yoo noo ride motorcycle cowweckly -seriously that's exactly what was said but with LOTS of agitation thrown in)
I don't know that I would necessarily call the oval-piston Hondas a "failure". The 1987 NR750 endurance racing bike-which this video almost completely skipped-qualified second at the LeMans 24h. It was retired from the race, but the engine failure didn't have anything to do with the oval piston design (it was a failure of the lubrication system), and the motorcycle magazines of the day reported that, at the time it was pulled, the NR750 was so far in the lead, ahead of the RVF750s Honda also entered which eventually won the race, that it was unlikely that even the RVF750s were going to catch up to it. Many of the technologies of the NR750 were later incorporated into the Honda RC30 and RC45 race bikes.
It's true that the oval piston engine would never really have been feasible for mass production at a reasonable price, but technologically, it was by no means a "failure". It was a groundbreaking technology that took a long time to work the bugs out from. Ultimately, however, it was a case of diminishing returns. The advent of modern engine management systems means that much more performance can be wrung from conventional engines without resorting to the incredibly expensive machining of an oval piston. And that's really why neither Honda nor anyone else has bothered since.
You're a Honda Fanboy. I get it. But not to classify the NR project as failure is puzzling. It was born to show those low rent 2-stroke 500GP bikes the Honda 4-stroke way. Never won a 500 race. Had to admit defeat and produce a (superb) NSR two-stroke. The NR only won one race in 750 form after the expenditure of millions. Produced only one piece of new useful tech (the slipper clutch). Oval pistons offered no advantage over traditional pistons. They were an interesting engineering dead end. But a dead end none the less.
Even Honda's NR engineers admitted as much
How to get more air and fuel into an engine for combustion?? They keep trying. But I notice they keep ignoring turbines, which produce nearly 100 times the horsepower per unit of engine weight, because the air goes in only one direction and so do the moving parts.
For motorcycles, so many practical limitations. It was tried in autos and in railroad engines but pumping all that hot gas is not friendly to stop and go traffic and a rider sitting close to the combustion source. Just sayin' ...
@@whalesong999 Pick any video to watch. ua-cam.com/users/results?search_query=the+chrysler+turbine+car
This was just a way of getting around max # of cylinders. Honda had those 250cc 6cyl racers in the 60's. That's why there is a 2cyl limit on 250's now.
Bart, If you ever want to test a TRULY rare Honda, please let me know... I have a 1983 Honda CB 1100 RD, the one on the left in my ID picture, I also have a Honda RS 125 and a NSR 250, made to look like a RS 250..
Now I am jealous of Bart. What an offer...
I think Honda's Active Reaction Combustion (ARC) two stroke was far far crazier in design... it ran on a semi-controlled runaway cycle similar to glow-plugging in a model airplane engine... it made oval pistons look like child's play
They were testing the 'lean burn' motors in Belgium as that was the major parts hub for all of Europe at the time.
I was always impressed they could get us 'anything' (current) in less than 24 hrs
Very nice vid. !
Honda, roller bearings on a crank bottom end??? Different!
@Retired Bore yup. My 1978 suzuki gs550 has roller bearing bottom end
@@holmes1956O
Still baffled me, and the needles.
@@huwzebediahthomas9193 not sure what baffled you. The crank is assembled the same as a 2 stroke crank
Z 1000 Kawasaki was roller cranked in the 70s
ALL 4 stroke riders WISH they had a 2 stroke. My 2 85 ATC250Rs still run ONLY on Blendzall. I love the smell of Castor on the wind.
The tricycles?
@@Earthneedsado-over177 Don’t you mean the most Dangerous off road vehicle ever created? I doubt you have the guts or brains to Ride my 55 hp 2 Stroke Beast of a TRICYCLE. Just the sound of it “ On the pipe” would scare you enough to wet your pants.
The NR would never beat the VFR-R on a circuit, the RC30 was way lighter.
how about a video about motorcycle that defined each year or decade?
Honda would probably have made it work if the FIM allowed it to stay legal for racing purposes.
They got one at barber museum in Birmingham al
A good set up Two stroke is ONLY smokey during warm up , furthermore when trying to measure the pollution level of the newer two stroke 500ds in order to motivate the Honda demand for the change to 4 stroke , none could be determined by the then available instruments , since then , in the last 15 years, there has been , adding to that, a revolution in two stroke oil technology !!
There were different reasons, why the NR500 had a hard life. At first the noise-problem lower allowed levels of noise. The 2-strokes had no problems, because they need an exaust-resistance for the gas exchange. But a 4-stroke is disturbed by a resistance which is added because noise reductions. The second reason was, that at the mid of the 70ies the engineers optimized the 2-stroke-principle very impressive. Maybe the NR500 would have had a hard life although there were no noise limits. But the NR500 was a great engineering of Honda. Respect to the engineers from Germany.
Hi great movie very nice filmed ;)
Yeah, Honda was so successfull with this engine, they swaped it for a 4 cylinder 2 stroke. XD
One has to admire Honda for going against the stream and challenging the, even up to todays 4 strokes, superior 2 stroke Design.
I mean, 200 hp naturally aspirated on 500ccm at about 37kg of weight is no joke.
I don't know why you think two stroke is 'superior design'?
It's less moving parts and makes a lot of power over a relatively narrow rpm range using a lot of fuel.
For racing, great idea, for the road, not so much.
Various Yamaha RD's are fun but I wouldn't want one as my only transport (the street RD500 and Suzuki RG 500 were not as great as legend makes them out to be)
@@1crazypj
I can tell you why, thermodynamically, a methanol powered spark ignited 2 stroke is the most efficient piston engine of them all.
Not only that, it also has less moving parts, is therefor more reliable and has less mechanical drag. Because of the principle, the 2 stroke is bound to always produce more power and more torqueat lower rpm, than a 4 stroke. The only real problems are the emissions, wich eventuell killed it off, and the problem with overheating pistons, due to the double ammount of power strokes per revolution, compared to the 4 strokes, wich leads to excessive nocking. However, both are easily taken care of by reducing max rpm and increasing compression. The emissions problem is also easily solved by using an external blower instead of the crankcase.
In theory, the 2 stroke is unbeatable, in practice, it loses due to emissions regulations. In any case, the two strokes still has more benefits than downsides, compared to the 4 stroke, therefor it is simply superior.
Oh, did i mention 2 strokes had up to 400 hp/L naturally aspirated, 4 strokes don't exceed more than 300 hp/L, even today.
@@mandernachluca3774 Are you speaking as someone who actually has worked on them or is it all theoretical?` A methanol powered two stroke isn't something you could actually use for transportation and for racing it would be in a very small class, plus, if you don't know what your doing it won't produce much power at all. Several years ago a group at American Suzuki built a 'methanol' 125 or 250 to go to Bonneville, they did not do very well and personally I thought it was a very disappointing effort from the resources they had available
@@1crazypj
That's no excuse, if you don'know what you are doing, you can't make power on a 4 stroke either.
Theoretically the stroke is better, practically, a methanol powered stroke is superior. Methanol has the lovely property of already partly consisting partly out of oxygen. That means, right away you get a 20% power increase just by using metanol. In 2 strokes this is even higher, as they generally have a bad volumetric efficiency, meaning, they can't effectively get enough fresh charge into the cylinder, without excessivly blowing it down the exhaust pipe or mixing it to much wich exhause gases. There are some technical solutions to this, especially in the chainsaw market (they call it strattified charge ), but generally speaking, everybody in the 2 stroke scene just trys to blow down as much charge as possible.
There are however examples for volumetric efficient engines used in Trucks. Look for example at Detroit Diesel, befor MTU bought them in the late 90s, they even had electronically controlled injecion systems on there 2 strokes, wich boosted their efficiency way over that of the competition.
Another example are 2 stroke container ship engines, those are the most efficient piston engines in the world, the consistantly work at a thermodynamical efficiency of over 54%.
@@mandernachluca3774 Do you always ignore the very unpleasant fact you need a LOT MORE methanol plus the inherent problems it creates?
There is a very good reason it's used 1/4 mile at a time or as a temporary power boost for conventional engines. (generally mixed with water to lower cylinder and exhaust gas temperature with superchargers )
Water has an expansion rate around 1600% from liquid to high pressure steam not the 'about a thousand' usually quoted)
That puts a LOT of pressure on piston
Detroit diesels were high revving engines loved or loathed by truckers and heavy equipment operators, they had conventional valves for exhaust but were actually not very good until they used two stage turbo superchargers.
If you want an innovative two stroke, see if you can find the multi cylinder common crankcase designs from the late 1950's and mid 60's.
They could not run without a supercharger pressurising the case.
NR500の鈴鹿サーキットでの初テストを目の前で見ました。あのマシンのかん高いサウンドは当方75才になっても思い出します、死ぬまでわたしのタカラ物です。
So honda did the most predictable thing and built a v3 500 two stroke.... love a video on that.
WTB NR pistons and rings. Trading a kidney and right leg.
It wasn't a failure, just to expensive to keep development going, it proved to work it just was determined that by the time it was at it's potential the company would belly up.
Great video
Interesting Video. 👍