Is Loki a Fire Spirit?
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Eldar Heide: ”Loki, the Vätte, and the Ash Lad: A Study Combining Old Scandinavian and
Late Material.” Viking and Medieval Scandinavia 7 (2011):
eldar-heide.ne...
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Loki always struck me as a useful, albeit unreliable, and potentially hazardous, fellow. fire also seems to fit that bill. thats how it made sense in my head, in any case. i do wonder if the heatwaves visible over fire, or over the land on hot days, were seen to be some sort of spirit/creature. cheers!
Hmm 🤔 interesting analysis and overview. ❤ btw I'm loving the new look!
That balzer is
🔥. Pun definitely intended, considering. 😂
I recognize the paper where you get all this from: "LOKI, THE VÄTTE, AND THE ASH LAD: A STUDY COMBINING OLD SCANDINAVIAN AND LATE MATERIAL", by Eldar Heide. So this is a good topic to discuss here.
I'm definitely the mind of Loki not really being a god, but rather a mischievous hearth wight. One that became more & more well known among those living within what's now the Scandinavian Peninsula.
Yeb - thats the paper! - I linked to it in the subtext
Its interesting that you mention the etymology of Loki and Logi(also called Hálogi).
The Loki comes from the Germanic word "luką" which means lock, and Lógi seems to have come from the word "laugiz" which means flame or blaze.
Thank you for pointing out a bit of the deeper issue revealed here. So often neopagans will completely ignore living folkloric traditions, especially treating those that have been syncretized (almost all of them) as virtually useless. This is deeply shortsided, and results in missing the vast majority of practices that point to a deep animistic relationship with the spirits of the land going well into the christian era.
Another couple points I'd like to make regarding the viking age obsession. You touched on this a bit, but l think there's a major unaddressed issue with just trying recreate viking age practices as is. Viking age nordic society was heavily militarized and patriarchal. This snapshot of nordic spirituality comes from in an era dominated by warlords and invasions.
I would argue much of this developed (or at least intensified) out of the pressure from empire to the south, as more and more of their indigenous society had been eaten away on the mainland to the point of near complete assimilation.
This is a snapshot of a nordic spirituality pushed to the edge of destruction. It reflects the society it exists within, which is ruled by might of arms. We also have the constant historical bias of that which is recorded being scribed (or at least not destroyed) by the ruling classes, meaning that whichever parts survived were those deemed least threatening to the hegemony of the feudal monarchs, 'christian' empire and the nation-state. We have very very little of the teachings of the Völva, women at all, or the day to day land-based practices that would've been the primary reflection of this religion. Snorri was a wealthy, influential chieftain and politician who was explicitly an agent for the King of Norway. So of course the forms he records uphold the institution of Kinghood, with the gods in clear hierarchy. This is just one example, but illustrative especially as Snorri originates so many of our primary sources for norse myth.
An attempt to entirely relate to the old ways through these sources often results in a glorification of the militarism, conquest, kingship, etc which ruled the society these sources are derived from.
More importantly, at least in my view, Every culture and spirituality embodies a living breathing relationship with Nature and Spirit. They shape and are shaped by the society in which their people live.
When we get too deep into a rigid academic reconstructionist view, we ironically become furthest by far from the ancient religion of our ancestors. From all I can see they had no rigid canon or strictures. They had a living body of stories and practices carried on in oral tradition. They lived in direct relationship with the Spirits and the Land every day. I'm certain each person had their own understanding of each of the Divines, which may have varied significantly from place to place. When we fixate on accuracy we project a colonial understanding of religion onto our ancient ancestors. There is no one way to be in relationship with the divine. Current day indigenous cultures can show us what it means to be in living relationship with these forces. Through this lense we can reach into our intuition and use these stories as a portal to direct relationship with the divines, to take from them what wisdom we can and change what does not resonate with our own values.
We can adapt the practices found therein to the constantly living, changing world around us. Ragnarok is coming. A great transformation is upon us. This is not the time for stagnancy. It is the time to deepen into the core of our roots, and adapt these ancient practices to the world we want to grow from the ashes. Learn how to live in direct relationship with the lands and time we live in now, not pre-industrial scandinavia. The world is changing, the climate is changing. So must we.
Go raibh míle maith agat. Thank you Deeply for the vital work you do in this. Blessings of all the Divines live with you. ❤️🔥
Ok so continue to chant kannaz
Only if you wish to get burned
Ok, I was a little skeptical going into this video but I think I'm on your side of the argument. The overemphasis on a set time period limits the full picture of how a deity developed and by extension, what was on the minds of the people who believed in the deity.
I wholeheartedly agree with you involving the current obsession with Viking religion and beliefs, being the final word. Pre-Viking religion is of greater importance than that which occurred for only 400 years. Skal
samurai, ninjas, assassins, pirates, and vikings.... all occupations. very many misconceptions about them. guess i could also add Spartans to that list. its very interesting what sort of things capture the popular imagination, and how that popular imagination can have the effect of dampening some of the academic stuff and spreading misconceptions.
I adore the analysis AND the new camera set-up!
3:44 I will say though that despite the name "Loki" itself not being directly related to the word "logi", I am still of the mind that there is a connection between the figure of "Loki" and the Old Norse term "logi". Specifically, the connection being that the term "logi" has two separate etymological meanings. There's "fire" which is the more well know one, but then there's also "liar, deceiver", which isn't attested by itself, but it did survive within the corpus as part of the compound word "þinglogi".
Interesting
I've read a bit of the Norse stories.
But, maybe it's because of the Marvel movies -- I don't like Loki.
I realize my lack of knowledge.
I definitely have seen the relation of Loki to the fire. It was interesting to hear the folk sayings which creates a stronger link.
I've always struggled with understanding the relationship between the people and the fire, as well as Loki himself. Loki is complex, but also embodies a lot of negative aspects in social order. Fire is central to the home, but I don't know why Loki would be. He is definitely a spirit to learn from, in a lot of cases, what not to do.
First nations people have a very close loving relationship with fire, which makes sense. Fire cooks our meals, dries and warms us, shields us from the cold of winter. But Loki embodying a spirit of caring and nurturing doesn't quite match up in my head. Clearly something has been lost here. I get the aspect of fire eating and understanding how that relates to an aspect of Loki's personality.
We valorize older forms, even when we know they are not the only ones. We think that older things were somehow more pure.
Northern Tradition group gnosis is that Loki's parents, Farbauti and Laufey, live in the Iron Wood in Jötunheim, not terribly far away from the largest city Utgard. Farbauti is at least part fire-Jötun and chief of the Lightening Clan in the Iron Wood, and is a skilled warrior and curse-worker. Laufey is a benevolent tree goddess whom Farbauti visits on the outskirts of the Iron Wood for about a third of the year, and they both see other people during the other two-thirds. So, I would say that Loki has a bit of a spark to him that instigates and ignites conflict. After all, he cursed Aegir's hall to burn down at the end of Lokasenna.
Something something something.. immigrants are good.
Boy! - how can you not just love it when right wingers demonstrate capacity to follow a reflection
@NordicAnimism i mean he's not wrong about your positions so that's something
@@NordicAnimism telling assumption.
Amazing talk
Congrats
I personally don't think Loki has much of a connection with fire, but we know vanishingly little, so it certainly can't be ruled out.
Regarding the Snaptun Stone I wonder if it's not the fire directly he's associated with, but perhaps the taming of the fire. The smith needs the fire to be under his control, to be bound, so to speak. Being bound or restrained is definitely something Loki is associated with. His name might even mean something roughly like the Bound(/locked/entangled) One. 🤔