Chris Clemons FIXES my forehand! Leading with the elbow! | Physics of Form ep. 10
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
- Chris Clemons helps Danny navigate the advice he got in the last episode for fixing his forehand and adding distance!
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Chris strikes me as a solid, humble dude. I feel like this is the first time I've really seen his personality showcased.
I got to play a hole with Chris at the luck of the draw doubles. You are entirely correct.
so humble that he mentioned himself as a top forehand player in disc golf
@@phatcap45 since it’s accurate, it’s not bragging.
@@morte100 that’s not how it works
You don't quite realize how crisp Chris' form is until you watch it next to a mere mortal. [And Danny isn't a bad player by any means!]
Honestly... Danny getting lessons from pros is incredibly good stuff. Not only because of the pros' good advice, but also due to how well Danny explains it to us trying to learn the mechanics. More of these vids, please!
@Danny: I just love that you are constantly teaching, learning at the same time, admitting that you tought opposite/different things in the past and that you are moving on! Thanks for taking us with you on your journey!
Nice video! I talk about a lot of this in my "FH Tutorial - How to Lead with the Elbow" and at the end of "Stop Hugging Yourself / Rounding" and also "Double Dragon Drill - Power Pocket Explained".
This was great, I love watching Chris' form
Watched an old sexton clinic....he said at the end if you don't remember anything else, remember this....Flick you wrist as fast as you can.......the forehand is thrown with an ACTIVE wrist snap....while a backhand is thrown with a somewhat PASSIVE wrist.....so you NEED to have that snap to generate enough spin to stabilize the disc...more spin = more stability = more accurate and farther throws
I think this video brings up a great point about all these form tips and coaching vids. I’m a beginner and was struggling to throw properly and get the “snap”. I kept throwing harder to get distance instead of throwing correctly because I didn’t understand the motion. You can change your grip, turn your head into the reach back, swing your off arm etc all you want, but if you don’t start the motion by transferring your weight into turning your hips those things won’t matter and were actually causing pain. All of those other things happen naturally when you understand the basic idea is to wind up and unwind at the hips. I think the elbow thing with the forehand is the same, a result of good form but not the focus. If all you do is stick your elbow out front it doesn’t work. But if all you do is snap your wrist it does. All these other tips are just ways to generate the most power at the moment the wrist snaps, to deliver the wrist to the right spot with the most tension ready to unleash on the disc.
Scott Stokely always emphasizes having the elbow away from your body. Watching his videos definitely helped me get more power.
I’m 3:45 into the video and it’s the exact advice I made on the previous video. I feel justified.
I really enjoy to see your journey to be better disc golfer! pls keep doing more of these and love to see those mustaches back on game! :3
one the first things that helped me was the idea of throwing "off my back foot" not my plant foot. this really helped me with timing/getting a good power transfer.
Nate sexton is the idea of back foot forehand throws
Just act like your skipping a flat rock across the pond, but aim at hip height. You will be a master in know time.
Underrated comment
The excellent point that is exactly how I imagined it skipping the rock on a lake
Or turning a double play in baseball from the shortstop position and you need to get the first base runner who is running to second down!
The lean that you're talking one of the tips Scott Stokely gives on throwing forehand so I think you're on point there.
When I say the arm should go like a layed down V it is exactly what you are describing, the elbow leading need that the whole arm is rotated so that once you push with the tricep to extend the hand shoots towards the fairway. Otherwise only the wrist really is engaged in making forward momentum, this also puts more force on the elbow since it tries to bend on the hinges (just like hanging on a car door).
Still think you really need to work with a more pronounced reach back (watch stokely on the pendulum or windmill) getting that arm straight and back is key to finding that "heavy disc" feel!
Pretty cool how you really put some good words on the forehand technique! Really liked how you also mention getting the arm away from the body, this really is also a key point to get the elbow leading which then as you approach the hit gets closer to the hips, so it is more like coming into the hips then setting it there.
Relatively new player (7 months) Your videos are a great help to helping me work on my forehand. Thank you so much.
At around 9:40 Danny's back foot begins to unglue from the ground allowing him to finish the movement more squarely and forward to the target like Chris does
This looked way better than the first video for specifically power shots. You were getting it too, keep the elbow away from the body, put more body into it and the weight transfer is more in your front foot. I have found that if my elbow/forearm is hurting from distance shots it was because I am keep my wrist down too much and keeping my elbow too tight into my body.
Definitely wanting to work more on my lefty forehand for power forehands, so, all the help helps. I use my right hand for touch shots.
I am that guy. You know that guy. The one that loves the game but lacks any and all natural physical ability. And even though I played baseball as a kid I have no appreciable disc golf forehand. This at least gives me more to work on and hopefully I can get a decent 250' forehand this season.
Loved the comparison of throwing a baseball in regards to the lower body movement. Chris mentioning the shoulder position & body weight shift from side to front is definitely something I need to implement. My forehand is just a putter shot to get out of trouble, lol😂 Thanks for the insight & awesome videos🥏⛓💥
your links in the top right are not working!
PLEASE READ:for form in anything you should move very slow while throwing focusing on if any muscle, joints or position that don’t feel like it would be a good way at high speed throwing.
I took 1 day and started bombing 500 feet I use my right hip (right handed) if you see Chris showing his elbow leading his shot but I saw his left hip engage before the elbow.
One step at a time,if it doesn’t feel good rewind and continue to try new movement slightly adjust for comfort!
Smooth is far!!!!!
I took advice from a Uli video and took it further. I lay in bed flat on my back with a disk in hand. I do a bunch of small spins to get a feel for my grip. Then try to flick the disk up and catch it and flick it again over and over again. I feel this has really helped me get a feel for the hit point or whatever you wanna call it. Once I got a feel for that I try and get the wobble out as well as make it go straight up and down as possible. If you have tall enough ceilings you can probably go full wrist extension, but I don't so its more of just a little flick. I also make sure I stretch my wrist both ways afterwards. I'm thinking maybe more flexibility makes for more wrist action I can use to generate more spin for the forehand.
I find it interesting how some of the best players aren’t even sure what they’re doing sometimes. It shows the movements are more athletic than mechanical
The throw at 11:41 just has perfect form. YT trick in any browser on a PC. Pause just before the throw and use the . (period) key to move forward one frame at a time.
I too am surprised at how far out his elbow is as I generally find that my forehand power drives get sloppier if I don't pull my elbow in closer to my body, but something about the way he throws makes that look incredibly smooth and powerful. He generates a perfect whip.
I do consciously think about leading with my elbow but maybe I'm not rotating it enough. One thing I notice playing in the winter (on snow, ice and mud) is that my forehand simply doesn't work at all if my plant foot risks slipping at all. Notice Chris's plant foot is well right of his center of gravity and he's pushing off it laterally at the end of the throw. If I have line up over my plant foot to avoid slipping, then I can't lean my body over and I end up putting ridiculous anhyser on the throw.
Chris even with his "full arm" swing stays true to the mechanics of the throw because as he is swinging he: 1) leads with the elbow. 2) gets his shoulder rotated back just before he applies full force in the throw (he actually rotates his shoulder forward as he winds up and then lets it hang back as he steps into his stance) points 1 and 2 together allow for a pretty strong pull through the long head of the tricep which saves the elbow. People who lock their elbow to the waist as they throw can usually never get the shoulder rotated back so they are unable to use the tricep to offload the elbow, that form is properly used as a teachingtool with shorter throws to stop people from rolling the wrist over but you rarely see top players throw like that (I believe Scott Stokely refers to it as "Rexing" i.e. T-Rex arms...)
@@Flakzor123 oooh great tip!! I think you figured out my problem. Seems like i get alot more effortless painless power by side stepping kinda not watching the target then go from open to closed shoulders/chest like stokely. Its probably that i rotate my shoulder more back in the side step. Need to go out and try it assap!
@@Flakzor123 känns inte som att jag fick det att funka med att rotera axeln mer bak, antar att du menar kast axeln. Känns som att jag "roundar" när jag testar det. Armbågen hamnar bakom kroppen. Har du nått tips på att göra det rätt?
@@Nickeeefy det är inte så enkelt som det låter. Skulderbladet ska helt enkelt vinklas "bak" men man ska inte rotera kroppen mer. Jag brukar tänka på att aktivt leda med armbågen, att nästan försöka träffa en osynlig punkt framför mig med insidan av armbågen. Det är lätt att tänka för mycket, speciellt om man försöker kasta hårt. Rotatorcuffen och övriga små muskler som roterar bak skulderbladet är oftast mycket svagare än musklerna på framsidan så tar man i kan man inte hålla tillbaka axeln om man inte tränar upp de musklerna. Edit: apoligies to english speaking readers, short summary: "it's not as simple as it sounds".
@@Flakzor123 alright thanks for the explanation, easier to understand in your native languege and kinda get it now. Mm lead or drive with your elbow is key,have noticed that in the latest sessions. Also trying to aim down the fairway with the inside of the elbow after planting while being really relaxed in the arm only trying to feel the weight in the feet and not think to much seems to work best.
dang Danny went from Trilogy's cute little demo guy to Scottish Shipbuilder with that beard
Was watching a Scott stokely video a few days ago, and you bringing up the elbow joint and how it's supposed to function reminded me of something in it. He basically said, anatomically speaking, that a sidearm (probably for most people) requires an anhyzer release because of how your elbow joint works. You keep the anhyzer form ( elbow rom ) and adjust to flat with hips and wrist. But it seems like a chop to keep the elbow moving in the way it's intended.
I’m physical therapist that avidly plays disc golf.
So mechanically my answer will probably sound like that. Lol
But, watching you vs Clemons, the first thing that comes to mind is that Clemons says if he feels sore, it’s after many reps and it’s in the muscles (forearm, pec).. aka power generated from Wrist Flexion and Shoulder Internal Rotation
You: you form looks “jointy” (comment of elbow or Sh joint pain after only a couple reps vs Clemons many reps)
You look to have correct timing of moving body parts. But it looks like you’re lacking the muscle activating.. no offense
Start simple: load the disc back (wrist ext and slight Sh ER) as you step thru moving forward.. don’t bring the disc forward until you “feel” the PEC engage, then when you feel the pec engage, then rifle the disc thru
Elbow: you’re too much at 90/90, and focusing wrongly on disc lag of the elbow. This is too jointy and causes Elbow injuries
Fix: the pec engagement. Additionally, elbow flex to about 30° above horizontal rather than 90/90, you’ll notice a ton of great pros do this during the run up. Then do your little baseball movement to throw
Lastly: disc inertia is sync w the hips for BH and I’m convinced it’s sync w the Chest for FH
I live in Ks. And come to emporia often. I’d love to meet up sometime if you’re interested. I don’t know everything. But I’m confident in what I just listed. I always seek to improve as well. I enjoy your videos “I’m a subscriber”. Keep it up!!
God bless
I love seeing breakdowns like this, personally I like to visualize the "sword arms" of the T-1000 from terminator 2 and "slicing the air" while leading with the elbow to shift some of the load to the inner part of the tricep instead of the elbowjoint. I also like to reach back a bit higher to let the pec engage: Essentially I pretend Eric Oakley is my spiritanimal and try to lean my torso 20-30 degrees toward my disc and the armswing about the same height as my solarplexus with the shoulderblade rotated all the way back (I do have a brief background in javelin from my teenage years though so my shouldermobility is pretty good up high). I find that whenever I see someone who swings through low with the forehand and have issues with jointpain they always look like they are armwrestling the disc.
Don’t bring the disc forward until you feel the pec engage. That’s genius. There’s a lot of room for growth in this sport from body mechanics pros. Chris has so much of his mechanics built in from baseball. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Great video. Thanks! Cant wait for the ice storm to move out of here and reevaluate my form 👍
It hurt in your shoulder because of the form used. Ask Eagle and Simon! Use Scott Stokley videos on the sidearm. He taught me to get my elbow away from the body a little bit. Similar to a sidearm pitch in baseball. In about 2 hours I was throwing 350 on the consistant.
Danny, food for thought. 1. Study pitching mechanics. 2. Buy a bucket of cheap Rawlings Baseballs. 3. Throw at least 80 overhand pitches everyday into a net working on pitching form. 4. After a couple of weeks do the same exact pitching form as your baseball pitch but add Drivers to the routine. At least 80 times per day into the net - essentially the disc comes out at overhand roller angles but you are still thinking baseball pitching form.
You are teaching and preparing your body's muscles/ligaments for maximum Forehand torque. As you learn to pitch a baseball and drive your Drivers with essentially the same mechanics, then take it a step farther. 5. With the same pitching mechanics, start to lean over at the waist slightly. Don't change anything but the angle of your torso. Practice this everyday and slowly learn to lean into the throw more and more over time until your disc is at the angle of a proper sidearm. Of course there are slight adjustments you will make, but if you learn to pitch overhand baseball correctly you will find that forehand form comes a lot easier and your body will except the torque required to throw it.
6. Commit to playing almost 100% Forehand only rounds for 1 year and your life will change in a big way. And yes, throw the occasional backhand round/field work to keep up the form. This worked for me, hopefully it can work for others too.
It’s getting there!
Good FH video, nice, lots of info!! Thx, Danny!!
The beard is great, don't listen to the critics.
Forehand has always hurt my shoulder instantly so I've been scared to try it again, I will try what you did in the field I hope I can get it
Great content.
I just started playing last summer so I may not be the best one to give advice. But I have a much better forehand than I have backhand. And I credit it to all the racquetball I've played. I've seen baseball coached give throwing advice but I would suggest looking at the proper racquetball forehand technique for some pointers.
Man side arm is so less confusing.
Forehand backhand.
I need this!!
Thanks for the tips ill be working on this soon!
If your trying to get a straight forehand. What helps me is bending down in a “squat” position vs bending at the waist R/L.
Yeah you"re halfway taking a knee on release.
Using your elbow as a hinge isn't exactly right.. I will say coming from a baseball back ground. The vast majority of "whip" that people who throw really hard have over people who don't. Is their ability to load the tight muscles in the rotator cuff in their shoulder. Watch a slowmo of any pitcher and you'll see what I mean. Legs, hips, lunge, are all there to force the body forward, forcing the elbow in front of the ball, essentially like pulling a slingshot away from the ball.
With side arm your body is generating a more rotational torque, rather than a more natural over the top torque. With over hand, leading with the shoulder on that downward motion, forces the elbow to twist, which forces the ball to accelerate. When throwing sidearm, since its down low, leading with the shoulder (bodies natural tendency) removes that forced whip of the rotator cuff. Which pushes the disc out of alignment. Creating a bunch of off axis torque, so the throw hurts like hell, disc wobbles and doesn't go very far...
Leading with the elbow is more a mental cue to keep your body from leading with the shoulder and pulling down and forward. Since your twisting, you don't need to pull down and forward. The torque in the shoulder is created from twisting. Leading with the elbow keeps your elbow down with the disc out to the side to make rotating the rotator cuff as easy and effortless as possibly. I'd watch slowmos of kolling and mcbeth as they stand up pretty straight up when they throw and really make full use of the effortless torque you can get from just isolating that rotator cuff. Clemens and eagle use alot more body and that would just over complicate the motion.
Sorry for the long winded response. I spent the first 20 years of my life as a pitcher analyzing what makes the ball go whoosh. Transitioning to disc golf, that, lead with the elbow thing really helped me work out all the wobble from my throw, removed all the pain, and now I throw much further and much more consist.
Hope it helps
Thanks for the lefty.
Always great content! Thank!!
I like to review the Karate Kid part 2...the drum shows us how the core drives the power
Okay Phil Cosby! Teaching what you don’t know cult! I mean cult.
Kidding of course, love the videos and keep It going!
PLEASE explain manipulate the disc for us newbies
Bring back the monopoly mustasch!
compared to my "can i even call it a forehand" forehand your still big flex danny. Also maybe think about it more like art as in dance rather than mechanical ...also how funny if after trying to help danny, chris gets into his own head and starts throwing 150 ' max forehands lol
Dude, he flipped the switch!
I think the biggest difference is the leg drive that's missing for danny.
Clemons has such a smooth AND powerful sidearm.
Just imagine if he used his right arm.
(Obviously an intended bad joke)
imagine the aerodynamics if they were both clean shaven.
Chris throws sideways, but most of the top guys are facing more forward with their front foot facing the target.
Remember from the Disney song, "Just a spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down". You got some sweet instruction, now do it.
You start your swing arm almost straight back behind you horizontally. Elbow almost completely straight. Chris starts his swing with the disc next to his ear. Elbow completely flexed. So you seem to do the swing with a straight arm. Chris comes from flexed to straight arm. It just seems like an obvious difference between your forms. Almost all pros start with the disc by the ear like Chris.
The elbow’s henge doesn’t move as much as the shoulder rotates the arm
Why Do you keep the retail tags on your discs?
Get Scott Stokely to overhaul your throw, you will not like it but in the end you will throw the disc further and without pain.
I love his modesty in mentioning himself as a top forehand thrower in the game
You got a beard and almost look like a man now! Congrats homie
CHRIS CLEMONS
I thought it was stroke the board. Not hit the board.
Big FLICKER!
Even in the thumb nail your lead hip is pointing up, his hips are flat
✌🏼
Danny. Look at your feet. I see a hop between 2nd and 3rd step. ex 8:56 . You should have 3 complete steps. No Bunnies!!
No consequences on the Internet for claiming “Big Flick” so I’m going to keep doing that. Lol. Good strategy. Create a nickname then you are forced to live up to it. Call yourself Big Flick long enough you will, someday, be slinging the sidearm 400.
you know youre smart when you get a pro pro to question reality on his best throw..
Beard > mustache.
why is Chris on a green screen?
You finally got that grass to grow under your nose
Lmk when you need a FH clinic
Chris has better better glute activation and hip flexibility. You're really stiff at the hips Danny
I enjoy your videos, but this is a typical example of a super-talented tour pro not able to relay what he naturally knows how to do. He just "has it." Not everyone is a teacher. Danny, you teach very well, but star guests trying to teach always ends up being disappointing. Best of luck to you, and thank you for the content.
danny's explanation could not be more off, his "hinge" revelation is very stupid, its whiplash, you lead with the elbow and and. the arm follows through behind
Use more lower body
high heels guy
great vid but...dude.. shave... its ok that you don't have much facial hair.. every one goes through the I'm going to grow what I have faze, but It always looks terrible. love your baby face It will serve you well if you appreciate it.
Your chest is facing forward way too early. You arm needs to come through earlier.
Can you explain more? When should your arm start the forward swing? After the plant foot is down right?
Great vid, but Mate, that “beard” needs to go…
please shave
Wait... So Danny can't forehand a disc 100 ft, but has tutorial videos? That is the equivalent to making recipes, but not knowing how to properly bake. The implication of previous videos was Danny knew what he was talking about, which we have been misled about apparently. Shameful really, because I trusted Danny.