My sram nx 11 speed derailleur came with cheap jockey wheels like that. Lasted me longer than a year and half even though they were cheap. Just replaced my jockey wheels with sram gx jockey wheels and they are good quality with good seals and bearings. Gx jockeys are $30 new and worth it so moral of the story is if you end up with one of these cheaper derailleurs then use it till it's worn down or till you're having issues then upgrade it to better jockey wheels
I used Apex for my cx race bike and it held up just fine. I agree in theory that sealing that area would be better than not, but it didn’t seem to affect the long term reliability. The derailleur probably has almost 1000 miles at this point including winter commuting and muddy cx races.
Just built a new ride with Rival 1 and found Shimano XT cassette is much quieter than the SRAM one. As for brakes if you building from scratch just get Hope RX4's if you can. The pulleys on Rival 1 are the same as Force/GX so they have bearings. Rival 1 is functionally identical to Force except for the lightweight carbon bits.
After several seasons on the Apex 1 system, gear shifting became difficult. We changed the housings and cables, adjusted the derailleur hanger. Nothing helped. It turned out that the derailleur itself was loose. It can't be fixed, so I bought a new one. Question: is Rival better?
This is the first review I have seen that mentions the issue with the SRAM shift lever when braking - and this is exactly the problem I have with SRAM brakes. On rough trails, my right hand does not feel secure because I have to remove my fingers from under the hood to brake. I have also noticed that the bearings on the jockey wheels deteriorate quickly in damp or wet conditions. I have decided to change over to Shimano GRX!
My 1x cyclocross bicycle will never ever touch dirt nor gravel. The cyclocross bike is the perfect road bike, because the wide tires keep you safe. I think that's what Apex is aiming for, but they need to tell people that it's "cyclocross but not for cyclocross".
Concurred! To Me, a gravel bike is first and foremost a road bike (as fast (or almost), depending on assembly) with a more relaxed geometry, much more durable and - ideally - perfectly suited for loaded rides if needed. It must be resilient and comfortable enough to withstand endless rides over harsh terrain, but not become a mountain bike replacement.
this was great. how much does it cost to upgrade to force from apex 1 and should i consider a shimano system. Looking to do the 2700 continental divide trail next yr. Thanks
I have apex on my new crux but ordered a praxis carbon crank. I could just change the derailleur to improve it? The shifter and brakes are of comparable with force ?
I just ordered a SRAM Rival long cage, it says it's compatible between lines, from Apex to Red. It arrives next week, but I'll assembly in 2-3 weeks as I ordered new rotors, chain, cables, brake pads and a new handlebar haha
Dzięki! I almost bought entire Apex drivetrain to replace Tiagra 2x10. I need to check out Shimano first but I will consider the Force. Still committed to Avid BB7 mechanicals. But currently so many problems with chain drops off of both rings or the chain sits next to the big ring instead of sitting down onto the teeth of the little ring...but...it's wacky setup..11-36 cassette with medium cage Tiagra rear mech. Surprisingly that works ok but the front shifting is bad. 2 spacers on the BB for chainline. I did the calculations and 40T x 11-42T is close to my used range.
The problem is there are no real alternatives for 1x cyclocross groupsets, other than diy projects or self-builds. Would you recommend using a Shimano mtn bike groupset or parts from it?
I have the apex 1 on a gravel bike from "State Bicycle Company" , It's a 1x11 drive train. I love everything about this bike including the robust carbon fiber fork which they call their "monster fork". The only thing I really hate is the Apex 1 downshifting, shifting up the cassette is flawless, shifting down the cassette it constantly hesitates and especially gear 7 likes to jump completely over 6 right to 5. I have had everyone try their hand at indexing and nothing seems to make any benefit, we've checked cables, alignment, The drivetrain and chain are practically new, My real question is can I use a rival one derailleur with my Apex One shift lever as I want to stay with mechanical brakes for now I've upgraded those already to BB7s and really do prefer them. So I guess if they make a rival that is an 11X derailleur can I just simply swap it out with the apex that's on there now? I've been a mechanic for years but understanding part fitment and compatibility is still something I'm trying to get a better handle up. Any response or comments I appreciate it
@@mikeyskitchenfoodporn1171 I'm having the same issue with the Apex One shifting. Shifting down the cassette is just atrocious. Did getting a Rival derailleur fix it?
@@TCCGrantT Just ordered one I'll let you know next week... No matter how I index or tune it I even had a friend of mine who's a wizard with indexing try, Even after he tuned it was still hanging up between sixth and 5th gear. Just sort of tap the shifter with my finger a few times and it clinks down but it's annoying.
@@mikeyskitchenfoodporn1171 Yeah, managed to improve my shifting a bit by adjusting the B screw, but still nowhere near as good as even Tiagra level Shimano. Hope a Rival derailleur does the trick.
Have you any experience with oval front rings? Are they worth looking into? If you have experience with them, do they put additional, observable wear on the rear derailleur? Thanks in advance. Blessings friend :o)
@@m1chaelsc that's a good point. I'm hoping for more input. For instance, which derailleurs, if any, are better for oval front rings or is it just a good idea for the rider who can afford to replace the clutch periodically. Thank you for the input and Blessings friend. :o) P.s. sorry for piling on more questions.
I love oval chainrings and won't go back. Have them on all my bikes now. The wear on the clutch mechanism is a valid concern but I haven't had any issues in years. Will probably replace the derailleur by the time the clutch wears out. Also, SRAM actually offer OEM oval chainrings for Eagle.
@@real_Karl_Mars it sure is. Can almost reach 50kph at a normal cadence. Really enjoy it, never going back to multiple chainrings on any bike. My MTB and fatbike and road back all are 1x11 or 12.
Jozef Kolibár I’ve got it on my road bike and love it. 53T in the front. That’s a wider ratio than my 2x9. The problem is gaps, not range. But gaps don’t bother me. Most of my mileage is on single speed so I’m used to riding at all cadences.
@Evan Carroll Should fit fine on a 130mm hub as long as you got Shimano HG body on your hub that allows a 11 speed SRAM cassette. I used the 11-42 cassette on my old frame with 5mm QR 130mm dropouts.
@Evan Carroll That's correct. because MTB cassettes are more narrow, which means it can fit 11 speed on the freehub. Otherwise only 10 speed with road cassettes. But that's fine since that matches with the Apex 1 RD.
Great Video. Love your channel. But i must say that there is clearly a need for Sram Force on Roadbikes. I ride sram force on my Dogma F12 and i love it. Although i am thinking to upgrade it to Champa Ekar 13 Speed.
My force 1 has been submerged in a mud pits many times. Didn't realize it needed a more mud resistance. What would you recommend I buy for cross? I'm looking.
Część Daniel, Great video. Do you know what the pull ratios are on the SRAM Apex 1 shifters? Do you think I can I replace the apex derailleur with a Shimano XT?
I have noticed that sram apex 1 equipped bikes comes with different crankset..some come with the one you have in the video and others comes with the one with apex logo on it..whats the difference between the two? Could it be the type of bottom bracket that determines which crankset to use? Any idea danny?
@@jamesdavis332 yes, why some apex equipped bikes comes with complete apex group ( with apex crankset), while others have S-350 cranksets..cost perhaps? Or compatibility with the frame's BB shell?
@@MrTrazz09 I don't think there's much difference in cost? Weight and looks maybe? I recently swapped my Apex cranks for S-350 cranks so I could fit 110BCD chainrings.
@@jamesdavis332 my bike còmes with S350 in 44tooth , i wanted to replace it with a 40tooth chainring, im searching the net but its kinda scarce to score an apex crankset here in my country...my other plan was to just swap it with 40 chainring, but i guess its not doable, i assume going for a smaller chainring the bcd also reduces right? So my s350 crankarm cannot be used
@@MrTrazz09 you should easily be able to find a 40t 110 1x chainring. I bought one from Hope who make 110 1x chainrings from 34t to 44t. There are much fewer choices for Apex.
im looking at the kona jake the snake, it has the sram apex 1x11 40t chainring and 11-32 cassette.. i wont be doing any heavy cyclocrossing... just short commutes and light dirt paths when hiking or camping... i live in colorado. would this groupset work well? thanks
My Rival 1 looks like it has the same cage and pulleys as the Force 1. I wonder if a clutched 10-speed X0 or GX derailleur with an in-line barrel adjuster would be a viable replacement.
I am planning to build a gravel/monstercross/bikepacking bike around Kona Sutra LTD frameset. So the first idea was to get a cheaper Sram 1 groupset, wich are Apex 1 or Rival 1 . Then I saw a Danny's review of those... Well, maybe not Apex 1, but Rival 1 groupset can be quite good, assuming that wet rides more likely will be an exception rather than a rule for me, but... Maybe it will be better to try Shimano Deore 2x9 groupset with Sora shifters? I really like a drop bars for my purposes, but all of those so called gravel groupsets are still a roadie thing with stupidly high gearig ratios and bad weather proofness...
@@davidbastidas9870 I know I can pair an old 10spd road shifters with a 9spd mtb rear derailleur, but I doubt if it is easy to find those shifters and I cant find any information on compatability of mtb forward derailleurs with those shifters. I doubt that road FD will work with mtb chainrings either...
Apex1 is the worst shifting I’ve ever used . Downshifting is poor particularly coming from the easiest gear going down the block . Can’t work it out , new cables changed etc might get me 9 of the gears from 11 . Upshifting is fine Not sure If new shifters or new mech will solve it . Mechanic said mech is perfect
I'm having the exact same problem especially when coming down from gear 7 to gear 6 and 5 it jumps over 6 often or it bangs right to 4, shifting up the cassette not a single miss?
@@brody5211 State bicycle company 6160 All road, Black label. 11x1 drivetrain... I did put new pulleys on it that actually have bearings, I also put a spacer between the derailleur hanger and the derailleur... Saw that fix on another guy's site gives it a little extra tension pushing outward. It has mildly helped I definitely am getting better shifting going up into higher gears, every once in awhile I still get hesitation between 6th gear going to 5th.... Probably just going to swap it out for the next model up in the food chain for SRAM
Excelent video. I'm deciding between Apex and Force to my gravel bike to ride long distances and ciclotrips. I believe that the Apex is better cause the low cost than Force
You might as well go red crankset if you're going with an xx1 in the back. Thats a badass setup and you can climb anything especially if have a 32 tooth crank and 52 tooth in the rear. You'd never get tired
@@sethmichael8188 why would you ever need to use 32/52. That’s mad. Like I have a 34/32 max gear and even then I barely need to use it. With a 32/52 you may as well walk
Thanks for info. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
My sram nx 11 speed derailleur came with cheap jockey wheels like that. Lasted me longer than a year and half even though they were cheap. Just replaced my jockey wheels with sram gx jockey wheels and they are good quality with good seals and bearings. Gx jockeys are $30 new and worth it so moral of the story is if you end up with one of these cheaper derailleurs then use it till it's worn down or till you're having issues then upgrade it to better jockey wheels
Great, thanks for the tip.
I used Apex for my cx race bike and it held up just fine. I agree in theory that sealing that area would be better than not, but it didn’t seem to affect the long term reliability. The derailleur probably has almost 1000 miles at this point including winter commuting and muddy cx races.
Just built a new ride with Rival 1 and found Shimano XT cassette is much quieter than the SRAM one. As for brakes if you building from scratch just get Hope RX4's if you can. The pulleys on Rival 1 are the same as Force/GX so they have bearings. Rival 1 is functionally identical to Force except for the lightweight carbon bits.
so just throw force pulley wheels into your apex derailleur when they wear out. that's not so bad
After several seasons on the Apex 1 system, gear shifting became difficult. We changed the housings and cables, adjusted the derailleur hanger. Nothing helped. It turned out that the derailleur itself was loose. It can't be fixed, so I bought a new one. Question: is Rival better?
This is the first review I have seen that mentions the issue with the SRAM shift lever when braking - and this is exactly the problem I have with SRAM brakes. On rough trails, my right hand does not feel secure because I have to remove my fingers from under the hood to brake. I have also noticed that the bearings on the jockey wheels deteriorate quickly in damp or wet conditions. I have decided to change over to Shimano GRX!
My 1x cyclocross bicycle will never ever touch dirt nor gravel. The cyclocross bike is the perfect road bike, because the wide tires keep you safe.
I think that's what Apex is aiming for, but they need to tell people that it's "cyclocross but not for cyclocross".
Concurred! To Me, a gravel bike is first and foremost a road bike (as fast (or almost), depending on assembly) with a more relaxed geometry, much more durable and - ideally - perfectly suited for loaded rides if needed. It must be resilient and comfortable enough to withstand endless rides over harsh terrain, but not become a mountain bike replacement.
this was great. how much does it cost to upgrade to force from apex 1 and should i consider a shimano system. Looking to do the 2700 continental divide trail next yr. Thanks
I have apex on my new crux but ordered a praxis carbon crank. I could just change the derailleur to improve it? The shifter and brakes are of comparable with force ?
I just ordered a SRAM Rival long cage, it says it's compatible between lines, from Apex to Red.
It arrives next week, but I'll assembly in 2-3 weeks as I ordered new rotors, chain, cables, brake pads and a new handlebar haha
Dzięki! I almost bought entire Apex drivetrain to replace Tiagra 2x10. I need to check out Shimano first but I will consider the Force. Still committed to Avid BB7 mechanicals. But currently so many problems with chain drops off of both rings or the chain sits next to the big ring instead of sitting down onto the teeth of the little ring...but...it's wacky setup..11-36 cassette with medium cage Tiagra rear mech. Surprisingly that works ok but the front shifting is bad. 2 spacers on the BB for chainline. I did the calculations and 40T x 11-42T is close to my used range.
The problem is there are no real alternatives for 1x cyclocross groupsets, other than diy projects or self-builds. Would you recommend using a Shimano mtn bike groupset or parts from it?
He’s talking BS...
yes, there is the new Shimano GRX
Isn't the Sram Rival 1 better than apex?
What will happens if sram apex set up to mtb... Still work ? 11 speed or 10 speed?
i love his way of talking ^^
SO my question is what 1 x 11 grouppo do you suggest for cyclocross?
I'm beginning a build so pretty open to choose. Great vid Cheers and thanks
racing?
I have the apex 1 on a gravel bike from "State Bicycle Company" , It's a 1x11 drive train. I love everything about this bike including the robust carbon fiber fork which they call their "monster fork". The only thing I really hate is the Apex 1 downshifting, shifting up the cassette is flawless, shifting down the cassette it constantly hesitates and especially gear 7 likes to jump completely over 6 right to 5. I have had everyone try their hand at indexing and nothing seems to make any benefit, we've checked cables, alignment, The drivetrain and chain are practically new, My real question is can I use a rival one derailleur with my Apex One shift lever as I want to stay with mechanical brakes for now I've upgraded those already to BB7s and really do prefer them. So I guess if they make a rival that is an 11X derailleur can I just simply swap it out with the apex that's on there now?
I've been a mechanic for years but understanding part fitment and compatibility is still something I'm trying to get a better handle up.
Any response or comments I appreciate it
Yes you should be able to upgrade your derailleur and still use the existing levers.
@@Lopezaaronn thanks Aaron for the reply I do appreciate it
@@mikeyskitchenfoodporn1171 I'm having the same issue with the Apex One shifting. Shifting down the cassette is just atrocious. Did getting a Rival derailleur fix it?
@@TCCGrantT Just ordered one I'll let you know next week... No matter how I index or tune it I even had a friend of mine who's a wizard with indexing try, Even after he tuned it was still hanging up between sixth and 5th gear. Just sort of tap the shifter with my finger a few times and it clinks down but it's annoying.
@@mikeyskitchenfoodporn1171 Yeah, managed to improve my shifting a bit by adjusting the B screw, but still nowhere near as good as even Tiagra level Shimano. Hope a Rival derailleur does the trick.
Have you any experience with oval front rings? Are they worth looking into? If you have experience with them, do they put additional, observable wear on the rear derailleur? Thanks in advance. Blessings friend :o)
They can cause pre mature wear on the clutch because of the chain growing and shrinking as you pedal
@@m1chaelsc that's a good point. I'm hoping for more input. For instance, which derailleurs, if any, are better for oval front rings or is it just a good idea for the rider who can afford to replace the clutch periodically. Thank you for the input and Blessings friend. :o)
P.s. sorry for piling on more questions.
I love oval chainrings and won't go back. Have them on all my bikes now. The wear on the clutch mechanism is a valid concern but I haven't had any issues in years. Will probably replace the derailleur by the time the clutch wears out. Also, SRAM actually offer OEM oval chainrings for Eagle.
You could just put a chain guide on. So after it passes the chain guide your chain will not have that much movement anymore.
Using the Apex 1 on my roadbike. Works fine with the gap between the gears. ;)
is it fast enough on the road? aren't you missing gears?
@@real_Karl_Mars it sure is. Can almost reach 50kph at a normal cadence. Really enjoy it, never going back to multiple chainrings on any bike. My MTB and fatbike and road back all are 1x11 or 12.
Jozef Kolibár I’ve got it on my road bike and love it. 53T in the front. That’s a wider ratio than my 2x9. The problem is gaps, not range. But gaps don’t bother me. Most of my mileage is on single speed so I’m used to riding at all cadences.
@Evan Carroll Should fit fine on a 130mm hub as long as you got Shimano HG body on your hub that allows a 11 speed SRAM cassette. I used the 11-42 cassette on my old frame with 5mm QR 130mm dropouts.
@Evan Carroll That's correct. because MTB cassettes are more narrow, which means it can fit 11 speed on the freehub. Otherwise only 10 speed with road cassettes. But that's fine since that matches with the Apex 1 RD.
Great Video. Love your channel. But i must say that there is clearly a need for Sram Force on Roadbikes. I ride sram force on my Dogma F12 and i love it. Although i am thinking to upgrade it to Champa Ekar 13 Speed.
My force 1 has been submerged in a mud pits many times. Didn't realize it needed a more mud resistance.
What would you recommend I buy for cross? I'm looking.
Część Daniel, Great video. Do you know what the pull ratios are on the SRAM Apex 1 shifters? Do you think I can I replace the apex derailleur with a Shimano XT?
I have noticed that sram apex 1 equipped bikes comes with different crankset..some come with the one you have in the video and others comes with the one with apex logo on it..whats the difference between the two? Could it be the type of bottom bracket that determines which crankset to use? Any idea danny?
I think the bike in the video has S-350 cranks, rather than the Apex cranks.
@@jamesdavis332 yes, why some apex equipped bikes comes with complete apex group ( with apex crankset), while others have S-350 cranksets..cost perhaps? Or compatibility with the frame's BB shell?
@@MrTrazz09 I don't think there's much difference in cost? Weight and looks maybe?
I recently swapped my Apex cranks for S-350 cranks so I could fit 110BCD chainrings.
@@jamesdavis332 my bike còmes with S350 in 44tooth , i wanted to replace it with a 40tooth chainring, im searching the net but its kinda scarce to score an apex crankset here in my country...my other plan was to just swap it with 40 chainring, but i guess its not doable, i assume going for a smaller chainring the bcd also reduces right? So my s350 crankarm cannot be used
@@MrTrazz09 you should easily be able to find a 40t 110 1x chainring. I bought one from Hope who make 110 1x chainrings from 34t to 44t.
There are much fewer choices for Apex.
You deserve some shirt man!! 👌 "mucho bueno"
im looking at the kona jake the snake, it has the sram apex 1x11 40t chainring and 11-32 cassette.. i wont be doing any heavy cyclocrossing... just short commutes and light dirt paths when hiking or camping... i live in colorado. would this groupset work well? thanks
went with the CANYON inflite instead.
My Rival 1 looks like it has the same cage and pulleys as the Force 1. I wonder if a clutched 10-speed X0 or GX derailleur with an in-line barrel adjuster would be a viable replacement.
I am planning to build a gravel/monstercross/bikepacking bike around Kona Sutra LTD frameset. So the first idea was to get a cheaper Sram 1 groupset, wich are Apex 1 or Rival 1 . Then I saw a Danny's review of those... Well, maybe not Apex 1, but Rival 1 groupset can be quite good, assuming that wet rides more likely will be an exception rather than a rule for me, but... Maybe it will be better to try Shimano Deore 2x9 groupset with Sora shifters? I really like a drop bars for my purposes, but all of those so called gravel groupsets are still a roadie thing with stupidly high gearig ratios and bad weather proofness...
What about 2x10, you'll get a 11-42 Cassette instead of the 9s 11-36.
@@davidbastidas9870 I know I can pair an old 10spd road shifters with a 9spd mtb rear derailleur, but I doubt if it is easy to find those shifters and I cant find any information on compatability of mtb forward derailleurs with those shifters. I doubt that road FD will work with mtb chainrings either...
2:50 Ladybug on frame)
Apex1 is the worst shifting I’ve ever used . Downshifting is poor particularly coming from the easiest gear going down the block . Can’t work it out , new cables changed etc might get me 9 of the gears from 11 . Upshifting is fine
Not sure If new shifters or new mech will solve it . Mechanic said mech is perfect
I'm having the exact same problem especially when coming down from gear 7 to gear 6 and 5 it jumps over 6 often or it bangs right to 4, shifting up the cassette not a single miss?
@@mikeyskitchenfoodporn1171 what bike is it on ?
@@brody5211 State bicycle company 6160 All road, Black label. 11x1 drivetrain... I did put new pulleys on it that actually have bearings, I also put a spacer between the derailleur hanger and the derailleur... Saw that fix on another guy's site gives it a little extra tension pushing outward.
It has mildly helped I definitely am getting better shifting going up into higher gears, every once in awhile I still get hesitation between 6th gear going to 5th.... Probably just going to swap it out for the next model up in the food chain for SRAM
Excelent video. I'm deciding between Apex and Force to my gravel bike to ride long distances and ciclotrips. I believe that the Apex is better cause the low cost than Force
Where does the Sram Rival 1 fit into this mix. It came on my new Surly Midnight special and works great.
Right in the middle
It's basically exactly the same as Force. The crank is a little heavier, but other than that they are identical.
Thank you for the real true information
Can you change the pulled for sealed bearings
Yes! Token have great ones
@@erickkleber link?
Can I combine Rival 1 crankset with Shimano 105 rear?
yes, but blasphemous
The solution is mix xx1 with force and eletronic shifting
You might as well go red crankset if you're going with an xx1 in the back. Thats a badass setup and you can climb anything especially if have a 32 tooth crank and 52 tooth in the rear. You'd never get tired
@@sethmichael8188 why would you ever need to use 32/52. That’s mad. Like I have a 34/32 max gear and even then I barely need to use it. With a 32/52 you may as well walk
Excellent!
Rival 1 is fine
Sram pulleys have always been weak even for MTB. I can confirm that SRAM normal road derraileurs have bearings, including Apex.
Iulian F I have the Apex for my cx bike and dont have bearings...
I'd like to give more "likes" in this video
Why do i have the first comment? But not first view...
Because it is FILO - First In Last Out
Thanks for info.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.