I have an Ovation Balladeer 1111 that I bought almost 40 years ago. For the first 10+ years, it was always out of case. I didn’t know any better. It still is in good shape. No cracks. I’m in the U.S. Northeast.
Great job. I’m surprised there’s not at least one transverse brace that spans the lower bout (or a couple diagonal braces to support across the grain. The longitudinal braces are designed to support the bridge and, theoretically, prevent the twisting action that produces the bellying between the bridge and the sound hole. But they do nothing to prevent all the longitudinal cracks that have appeared. SIDE NOTE: When I was a young civil engineer (late 80s), I worked for a large bridge contractor. One of my primary duties was designing concrete formwork; the vast majority of which was construction from lumber. This included everything from small chamfer strips to huge timber beams. We relied heavily on a book titled “Formwork for Concrete” written by Mary K Hurd. That book is the Bible, when it comes to structural engineering with wood and wood products. There’s obviously a huge difference between luthier work and timber formwork design, but you might find Ms Hurd’s book interesting reading. It is packed full of information related to the properties, strengths, performance, etc of various types of wood. I earned my professional license (P.E.) doing 5 years of structural engineering (again much of which designing timber formwork), so my brain is wired to look at things like the cracks in that ovation, from an engineering stand point. I literally cringed when I saw that with-the-grain top bracing. Anyhow, thanks for another interesting video, Ted. Great job!
Had an Ovation bought for me for a tour back in 78, I had one, my friend David the lead guitarist had 2 and the bassist had 2 - only number 2 of my friend's was any good...since then, all 5 have bit the dust and like just about everyone else, none of use them anymore. Mine split on the top right up the middle in about 1983....it had been in its case for around 6 months, and I was going to use it for an intro on a recording - pop - right down the middle. I repaired it with cleats and a reglued a couple of loose braces, but it was only ever used for jamming and rehearsing after that. I finally gave it away to a learner.
Used to own several early Ovations. they will crack in a heartbeat in Colorado winters and require heavy humidification. If you love Ovation the way to go is the Adamas models. That is how Ovation finally dealt with the differences in expansion...ditch the wood top.Ovation used lots of epoxy in assembly and they are monsters to take apart. Later models have an access hatch in the back that allows many repairs. I am sad that Ovation is all but gone but the Asians make em now (Applause). I have many all wood insturments and stil prefer the sound. Kaman was a genius but did not keep his nose to the wheel long enough on some designs.
Funny and sad at the same time for ME. In the early seventies I bought my first Ovation (BEFORE they had electronics!) LOVED it, so in 1975 I bought 3 MORE (a 6-string GC Custom, a 12-string GC Custom, and the NYLON 1624 Country Artist). In 1980 I purchased a GORGEOUS Natural Custom Legend. I then had FIVE (5) Ovations that I loved... By 1984 I had FOUR (4) Ovations with SPLIT TOPS, in the SAME PLACE!!! (from the bridge to the bottom of the lower bout, STRAIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE on 3, STRAIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE, then turned right towards the treble side and lifted about 3 inches on the CUSTOM LEGEND!) The ONLY one that hasn't split is the NYLON one, which I still play TODAY. Sorry Ovation, ONE would be a "FREAK THING", TWO would be a "COINCIDENCE", but FOUR is way BEYOND acceptable... I had no choice but to take my business ELSEWHERE, and never looked back. Still love my NYLON, and on the 'bright side", believe it or not, the CUSTOM LEGEND with the "lifted top", STILL holds TUNE! LOLOLOLOL... GO FIGURE!
I have fought with my Ovation Legend trying to eliminate a strange metallic buzz without success. Tried absolutely everything but no improvement. This video has convinced me that the problem is the guitar design itself. I moved from Canada to the UK, so from mostly a dry climate to a mostly damp one and that's when this problem showed up. Wish I had sold it when it was still sounding good :( Anyway, thank you for posting this because it makes sense.
These damn things always try to get away from you when you're playing. You gotta pull the thing back every five strums. I hate to think I suck so bad even the guitar tries to get away!
I don't know if it's apocryphal, but I remember a story about a young guy who bought an Ovation guitar, and one day before playing it he "conditioned" the plastic bowl with Armorall. While he was playing it while sitting, that slippery sucker slid right off his lap, landed on the floor, and there were many shattered pieces of Ovation to clean up.
Ovation makes the best pickup system out there.... I love the 24 frets as well. I have 3 of em and play them out live 3 to 4 nights a week. Great guitars.
Dang, "the Self Destruct Mechanism is essentially initiated"...profound, true, and (sadly) hilarious. I never liked Ovation guitars for all of the reasons that you mentioned...plus they simply don't sound, feel, or respond in a "real" way to my earbulbs & phingies. // I totally love your videos...thanks, again. - A
I had an Ovation (forget the model) that grew quite a belly, ensuing extra light Martin strings, turned out to be the best slide guitar I ever owned. Who knew? With extra light strings, yet!?
Ovation is still a High quality, well made instrument; severe atmosphere changes will damage any guitar, especially an all wood one Lets not form an angry mob with lit torches because of problems with one old guitar
Finally a true and reasonable comment. I own three 1980’s Ovations tuned to NST, higher tension, and no problems. They are very well made and will last a lifetime if taken care of. I can only speak for the US Connecticut models. Don’t know if same applies to foreign made. Cheers!
Nice job. Funny though, I always thought the reason for their popularity was their stability, though i never went on tour with mine. But my 90's Elite Custom Deep Bowl is rock solid. Extremely comfortable, plays like a dream and stays in tune. It may not have the deepest tone like a dreadnaught (i use light gauge strings), but its my go to for spontaneous playing.
I am the original owner of a 1986 Custom Balladeer 1712 with a graphite neck, no issues whatsoever Kept in its case and played often in various tunings. Pictures upon request :)
Keeping an acoustic guitar in a case as often as possible is close to the best thing you can do to maintain/preserve it’s shape, performance and overall health. It slows the changes in temperature and humidity and or keeps it in a more regulated state. Good thing you’ve done that.
Use of a suction cup is actually pretty standard. Stewmac's crack repair kit includes a fancier version, but the concept is the same (www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_Resources/Learn_About_Repair_Tools_and_Repair_Techniques/StewMac_Crack_Repair_Tool_Instructions.html). I wish twoodfrd would have shown his technique for clamping the cleats, though, since he seems to have installed too many to have used stewmac style wire "clamps."
@@repoman7804 Yeah. Suction cups are a real deal. Dan E, at Stew Mac uses them plenty... I've tried using compresses air to blow glue into cracks but that's a risky mess. The use of suction cups to work glue into cracks was inspired brilliance.
Very good video ! I had exactly the same problem on the upper part of the bridge on my Ovation Elite 1993, Super Shallow Bowl, black color. At the time, some people told me that the black color sometimes hid small defects in the wood. Since then I haven't bought a black guitar...
I do dig the aluminum neck on my ovation Matrix (down market Ovvation - no electronics, dont know what the tops made of...) Its a really loud guitar, too. And an effing tank. keeps in tune. hate the slippy plastic, slide off your leg/lap back. had to glue no-slip stuff on
I have a 1977 Ovation Custom Balladeer that I bought new, and it is still in great shape. No cracks, great action, little chunk missing off the head stock where it fell of a chair I had stupidly put it on. But even that didn't damage the rest of the guitar, still plays great. They're rugged as hell!
I did a double take to see if the one I’m working on is the same guitar! Top isn’t as badly warped but nearly the same crack on a 1767 Model. Great information!
You raised some interesting points in the video regarding the materials and construction methods employed by Ovation. The plastic back married to the wooden top is a recipe for disaster and the strange bracing pattern doesn’t help. I think that if they’d used a carbon fibre material for the top they’d have been on to a winner. Like you I suspect that that Ovation guitars were never designed to last a really long time.
Henry Hunter,the Adamas guitars ovation builds are carbon fiber,hand built guitars. Very,very fine sounding guitars. I’ve owned quite a few over the years.
Yes I was sort of aware that some of the very top line models had synthetic tops. It’s good to hear they’re more durable than the wooden ones. Maybe I’ll get to try one sometime, the idea is intriguing.
I have a '68 12 string, a '72 Artist, an '82 Legand, an '83 Adamas, a '97 Parlor... They are not disposable guitars. I toured with the Adamas for 30 years. It held up better than the cases. Even in a world of Rainsongs, Ovations still get the most shade.
I bought an Ovation 25 years ago, got a sound hole plug just to make it quieter, but man, it really saved the guitar, as I keep it in the stand out in the open. Once a year, I take off the plug, put tiny bowl with a wet sponge in it inside of the guitar, replace the sound hole plug, and let it sit for a week with the wet sponge inside. My problem is while the body doesn't seem to be bulging, I'm out of saddle to shave and the action is getting higher, and there's nowhere to go. A neck reset wouldn't be worth it.
@@warmoth68 His thing was that they were too much stress for him to work on for what needed to be done to them. Ovations have great electronics, the rest? Not so much.
@@MrTwostring actually he was a riot. One of my favorite memories of him is he had a guitar with a sticker on it that said "Doomlord" on it from a rotund fellow, and called him while I was there to tell him his guitar was ready, quote "Hey doomlard your guitar is ready"
My 1979 Ovation Balladeer has a similar issue but without the cracks fortunately. A great tech adjusted the action to the limit to make it playable but the action is very low. Almost too low. I guess a humidifier may improve things or at least stop any cracks from developing. Great video and amazing guitar rescue! 👍
I had a ovation in the early 1970’s that had a aluminum fret board that eventually wore out and BUZZED like crazy, but had a real sustain before all that happened to it
Mickstone, Yeah, I had an Ovation Applause similar to the one you describe. The entire fret board was milled aluminum (hard, not soft, presumably aerospace-grade alloy) and the frets were square (not rounded) and rough, not polished at all. It was a piece of junk!. I raised up the strings and used it for acoustic lap steel and Dobro style slide playing.
Great video... as usual. But I did miss seeing you do a minute of demo at the end of the video. BTW, my 70s/80s Applause AA-31 is holding up pretty good, but then again, there are SOME benefits to having a plywood top. It was my FIRST guitar. It certainly is my WORST guitar... but it's the one I pick up and play almost every day.
Watching this channel and Stew Mac's channel is interesting stuff. I can't imagine what it takes to get as good at this as you are. My only acoustic is a cheaper Korean Ovation I got about 14 years ago and it's holding up well so far. I keep it in the case and I don't play it but every 5-6 weeks because I'm mostly playing electric, but it sounds good enough and plays well. I doubt I'd buy it again if I had that purchase to do over, though. I do like the pinless bridges on these guitars because it makes changing strings simple, but I wonder how that holds up over time since it seems a lot more string pressure is placed on the bridge.
I had an ovation once, found it at a pawn shop for crazy cheap. It didn't sound terrible but it was far from what id choose to play today. The bowl shape was a nightmare. Standing up and playing was fine but I bought it as a beater to practice with at home while watching tv or to take out when jamming and having a couple beers with friends. But playing it sitting down it was constantly sliding out from the bottom. It didn't have much of a leg contour at all to act as a shelf and the slick back made it so much worse. It projected ok but I'd personally never buy another one. I've been through so many acoustic guitars trying to get the Martin tone and playability on a budget ($350-$725). Some were ok some were so bad that they cramped up your fingers after a few minutes. Ive finally got to the point where I've had enough and I'm gonna finally get a Martin next week for my birthday. I've always loved the tone of Martin's. Nobody else has it, Taylor's have never impressed me in the slightest. They are just regular sounding/playing guitars that are overpriced bit with nothing to justify it other than materials used. I don't have a ton of money since the covid situation but I've planned on buying a Martin for myself on my 30th birthday for awhile. I'm gonna get a D10e Sitka and finally stop trying to get the Martin tone out of everything except a Martin lol.
I originally thought the sturdy back would make the instrument more durable.... this video is totally correcting my misconception. Maybe replacing the top with thin carbon fibre would be a better idea....
Hello, I am an Ovation owner, and my guitar doesn't seem to be as bad as yours. I am intrigued whether or not it can have some life breathed back into it. It is a Balladeer ser # 353370, made in 1985-1986
I have a 50yr old Alvarez acoustic and if you seen it you would think it wasnt more than 10yrs old! New bone nut and saddle, strings, and string pegs are all it's ever needed! People dont take care of their stuff is the issue. In america people buy 300thousand dollar lamborghinis and then crash into a tree! They dont care but then want you to fix it.🤷♂️
Skills! I really appreciate your sharing this wonderful knowledge and the intelligent vocabulary and commentary you present it with. So refreshing thank you.
never thought of getting the ovation guitar too dry would cause it to self-destroy... Cuz one day my Ovation just blew up I'm Lucky that I have a video of paying it 😭
Have the same guitar, I purchased it in the mid 80’s and had a temperature variation issue which caused sound board cracking and the binding at the side were the two edges meet, to separate. The other issue I did not find out about till way after I got this instrument, was they never installed the truss rod. I was the original owner and when I when to have some setup done my guitar tech pointed it out to me. It is now worthless wall art.
I saw a real fancy one in a pawn shop. They wanted 300 with a nice case. Was thinking of buying it until I saw it had the same problem. We have nobody around here to fix it other then a guitar chain store. Which would be crazy expensive.
I feel better about not bringing my 80's vintage Ovation to northwest New Mexico (dry) from near Houston, TX (hot and humid). Same with my 80's vintage Yamaha
In the late 70’s and 80’s you couldn’t swing a dead cat without hitting someone playing an Ovation guitar. Numerous great things about Ovation and one big problem, case in point!!
Used to own a classic Ovation 12 string from the 80"s, moved to the west from Ontario. The top was warped before I left(about 20 some odd years. My bro decided it was worthless and torched it!! I had plans of putting a laminate top on it, changing the array of bracing. Let bygones be bygones! Am still pissed! Was a beautiful guitar!!
Always loved Ovations. Had a 1995 Limied Edition which gave me years of joy. Still have an Adamas. Bought a Main Stage SX and it was screaming that it was a 'Custom shop instrument' but turn out to be a piece of crap. Brought it to a tech who was reluctant to work on it and quoted half the instrument's price to repair. Fortunately another tech's price was reasonable and the results were beautiful. It played and sounded better then when new. Shpuld have to take so much effort to do so. And the workmanship of this 'Custom Shop' guitar leaves much to be desired. My love affair Ovation is over after this cause the new management doesn't seem to have their shit together. :(
Excellent job. Interesting that a guitar shares some similarities with the violin, but is different in many ways. One item that is not present in a guitar is the sound post. The linkage between upper and lower faces of a violin is never (to my knowledge) used on a guitar as the rear surface is usually pressed against the player's body anyway. This would perhaps help prevent the deformation we see here. Also, the violin uses a "trapeze bridge" that does not cause a rotating force on the face, but only and compressive force there. All these things contribute to a guitar being unstable. Forces are at work to collapse and distort the top. Perhaps a change in design would prevent that. The Ovation, as you say, is a combination of dynamic material and unyielding material. It requires a "cleavage membrane" where the top joins the sides. This is an engineering feature often used when there are dynamics attacking a rigid installation. An example is when ceramic tile is put onto a floor that is subject to distortion either because of expansion or deflection. Excellent video and excellent repair. IMHO
Its crazy, I have an Ovation since 1983 and I've never babied it, I mean its been in the hot trunk of my car until the cased literally blistered. It had to have been 120+ in there (Vegas baby). Also never used a humidifier ever. Still pristine after all this time. I bought it because it was a fad at the time and now the damn thing wont die.
When I was about 18 I didnt have any money as most 18 year olds lol. So o had to sell all my guitars and my amp for bills and likely to pay a speeding ticket or two. Anyways I havent been without a guitar since I was 7. So I went to a local pawn shop and bought a "well loved" ovation. It certainly had damage from drying out around the binding which lead to a deformity an many small cracks. I remember it sounded ok, I even recorded a couple songs with it. But I couldn't get used to the damn bowl shape. Anytime I played sitting down it would roll outwards. And of course back then I didnt use straps unless I was playing standing. When money was less tight I got a new acoustic and sold the ovation. Sadly I completely forgot that when I bought the ovation it came with a weird brown ugly case. I put it up in my barn on the top storage part and forgot about it. Lol now I have a completely useless ovation case and no ovation or plans to get another. Even if I did plan on getting another (I finally got my Martin after 20 years of playing and its everything I'd hoped or would be after playing hundreds of Martins over the years) ovation, which again I dont, the bowl shapes arent all the same and would require a different case probably. If anyone sees this and you live in DFW message me. I'll give you the case for free. If anyone else is interested I'll gladly send it to you if you pay shipping lol.
Had my first Ovation for 25 years without a problem Used it heavily, and lived in the north east When I moved to South Florida and made the mistake of having it shipped with my furniture, one week in a storage unit cracked the finish on the top There is absolutely no damage to the wood face, just a few hair line fractures to the poly finish; anyone has any ideas on an inexpensive fix? Other than the standard to high action on the upper neck, the guitar still plays wonderfully
The method would be the same as described multiple times on Ted's and other luthiers' channels - fill with thin CA glue, level with a razorblade and polish with a few grit levels of wet sandpaper and then some buffing product. Pretty easy job if you can practice a couple of times on some other guitar just to get the hang of the process
I once owned the Glen Campbell model and the neck dipped severely as it joined the body, there was separation on the top, right down the center and a poor action with buzzing. I decided just to sell on eBay with a reduced price just to get shut of it. The guitar never sounded great acoustically and plugged in it was very brittle sounding. I never missed it either. Some of the newer models look nice but I would rather play an all timber guitar.
I just found this one. My band partner finished one of our pieces and posted it to band camp yesterday. He renamed it "No More Ovations" which had nothing to do with the guitars or this video. But, I had to admit, I've never liked Ovations. They want to fly out of my lap when I play. I suppose one could put rubber, non skid material on the guitar... or make rubber pants. That might work.
I bought an Ovation back in ‘74, and it actually had a rubber pad on the back to prevent the thing sliding down your leg. Which was fine I guess, but the glue under the pad eventually softened and the pad came off. Seemed like a good idea at the time.
Fascinsting vid mate, thanks for sharing. Was that plain old PVA glue you worked into the crack or something fancier? Very glad UA-cam recommended you. Thanks again.
A radical design that was the best stage acoustic in its day. I was thinking exactly the same before you said it. Buy one, make it earn its living, junk it, replace it. Shame. They actually had a nice sound, (check out early Joan Armatrading, anyone who doesn't know). Nowadays carbon fibre top, fancier electronics... You made it work again, so respect.
Hey man, I just want to say you are a master of the craft, I live in Atlantic Canada I was wondering which sound hole dehumidifier would you recommend?
OK, Honestly I don't like Ovation guitars of any sort, but different strokes for different folks. You know more about guitars in your little finger than I'll ever know, and I'm sure this job was on a budget. Pull the top, make new top with Martin style braces and over sized bridge plate, (didn't notice a bridge plate at all in that thing) or take all the braces off the old top and do the same, after the crack repairs. May last a little longer. Or make a top out of 1/2 inch plywood with 2x4 braces. Anyway, nice job repairing that thing.
True i saw one the other day from afar. I went, this guitar looks very familiar. very 60s.... hmmm... oh fuck me Glen cambell... Oh an OVation! i wouldnt have recognised it otherwise
I have a Minstrel (made in Canada of course) and I noticed the fretboard extension takes a dip like this Ovation has. How do I know if that's by design or an issue?
I just love my Gibby LP Standard it just plays everytime I pick it up Sure it was made in indonisia in 2005 by a man with a name this keyboard can't type, I don't even keep mine in a case it is out either in my hands or on the stand every day. My acoustic is a Jameson thinline full size it just sits in it's gig bag happy as a clam ... I don't think I would ever have any interest in an Ovation.... seems like it is, as you sai, a throw away guitar
I dont know how my father has maintained an Ovation Ultra since the 80s without an humidifier, these guitars look like a pain in the ass to fix when things do go wrong
Thanks for your comment. I was wondering if Ovations had always had this problem. I suppose that the dissimilarity between top and bowl materials is the major issue here because the composite bowl doesn't contract and expand like the wood top. I believe that the only real solution would be a carbon fiber top. Wood and other synthetic materials don't get along well together.
twoodfrd - I'm trying to replace the soundboard of a seriously ill friend I've known for 55 years since I was 7! I'm having trouble trying to locate this soundboard. Off hand, I believe the model is 1917 Any idea where I could find one? Also, I've never done any repair on an Ovation, however, I have to think the edge will become unstable and flop around which will complicate setting the replacement challenging. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. I dig the channel, I've watched numerous videos and learned volumes, but only posted a few comments, which you always replied to, so thank you for that! Jack ~'()'~ Canada...aye!
Thanks for another great video, but I have a question. Given the number of cleats you made, I assume you didn't use stewmac style wire "clamps" to pull your cleats tight, esp on that long crack. Did you somehow manage to get a pair of long acrylic cleats squeezing inside/outside with sound hole clamps? I would imagine that would be quite difficult to accomplish, so I'm wondering if you had some clever technique to share?
Thanks James, I'll try and film it next time but yes -2 acrylic cauls and some extra-long reach clamps for the initial crack glue. I used magnets for the cleats. I get the distant ones in place with a long pair of medical hemostats.
@@twoodfrd Ah, OK. And yeah, I meant cauls, not cleats. So you set the glue in the crack while held in place by clamped cauls, then added the cleats separately, which were held in place with magnets. Thanks for the explanation.
If this is someone's favorite guitar or has sentimental value, then spending some $ on repair is cost effective to that person, you can't just compare the cost of repair to what a guitar is worth $ wise in every case, many guitars have value to their owners that far exceed their $ value on the guitar market.
I have an Ovation Balladeer 1111 that I bought almost 40 years ago. For the first 10+ years, it was always out of case. I didn’t know any better. It still is in good shape. No cracks. I’m in the U.S. Northeast.
Great job. I’m surprised there’s not at least one transverse brace that spans the lower bout (or a couple diagonal braces to support across the grain. The longitudinal braces are designed to support the bridge and, theoretically, prevent the twisting action that produces the bellying between the bridge and the sound hole. But they do nothing to prevent all the longitudinal cracks that have appeared.
SIDE NOTE: When I was a young civil engineer (late 80s), I worked for a large bridge contractor. One of my primary duties was designing concrete formwork; the vast majority of which was construction from lumber. This included everything from small chamfer strips to huge timber beams. We relied heavily on a book titled “Formwork for Concrete” written by Mary K Hurd. That book is the Bible, when it comes to structural engineering with wood and wood products. There’s obviously a huge difference between luthier work and timber formwork design, but you might find Ms Hurd’s book interesting reading. It is packed full of information related to the properties, strengths, performance, etc of various types of wood. I earned my professional license (P.E.) doing 5 years of structural engineering (again much of which designing timber formwork), so my brain is wired to look at things like the cracks in that ovation, from an engineering stand point. I literally cringed when I saw that with-the-grain top bracing.
Anyhow, thanks for another interesting video, Ted. Great job!
Had an Ovation bought for me for a tour back in 78, I had one, my friend David the lead guitarist had 2 and the bassist had 2 - only number 2 of my friend's was any good...since then, all 5 have bit the dust and like just about everyone else, none of use them anymore. Mine split on the top right up the middle in about 1983....it had been in its case for around 6 months, and I was going to use it for an intro on a recording - pop - right down the middle. I repaired it with cleats and a reglued a couple of loose braces, but it was only ever used for jamming and rehearsing after that. I finally gave it away to a learner.
Used to own several early Ovations. they will crack in a heartbeat in Colorado winters and require heavy humidification. If you love Ovation the way to go is the Adamas models. That is how Ovation finally dealt with the differences in expansion...ditch the wood top.Ovation used lots of epoxy in assembly and they are monsters to take apart. Later models have an access hatch in the back that allows many repairs. I am sad that Ovation is all but gone but the Asians make em now (Applause). I have many all wood insturments and stil prefer the sound. Kaman was a genius but did not keep his nose to the wheel long enough on some designs.
Funny and sad at the same time for ME. In the early seventies I bought my first Ovation (BEFORE they had electronics!) LOVED it, so in 1975 I bought 3 MORE (a 6-string GC Custom, a 12-string GC Custom, and the NYLON 1624 Country Artist). In 1980 I purchased a GORGEOUS Natural Custom Legend. I then had FIVE (5) Ovations that I loved... By 1984 I had FOUR (4) Ovations with SPLIT TOPS, in the SAME PLACE!!! (from the bridge to the bottom of the lower bout, STRAIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE on 3, STRAIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE, then turned right towards the treble side and lifted about 3 inches on the CUSTOM LEGEND!) The ONLY one that hasn't split is the NYLON one, which I still play TODAY. Sorry Ovation, ONE would be a "FREAK THING", TWO would be a "COINCIDENCE", but FOUR is way BEYOND acceptable... I had no choice but to take my business ELSEWHERE, and never looked back. Still love my NYLON, and on the 'bright side", believe it or not, the CUSTOM LEGEND with the "lifted top", STILL holds TUNE! LOLOLOLOL... GO FIGURE!
I have an ovation celebrity 12 string and live in the desert, it's a labor of love for sure.
I have fought with my Ovation Legend trying to eliminate a strange metallic buzz without success. Tried absolutely everything but no improvement. This video has convinced me that the problem is the guitar design itself. I moved from Canada to the UK, so from mostly a dry climate to a mostly damp one and that's when this problem showed up. Wish I had sold it when it was still sounding good :( Anyway, thank you for posting this because it makes sense.
Thanks for the heads-up about Ovation.
These damn things always try to get away from you when you're playing. You gotta pull the thing back every five strums. I hate to think I suck so bad even the guitar tries to get away!
I don't know if it's apocryphal, but I remember a story about a young guy who bought an Ovation guitar, and one day before playing it he "conditioned" the plastic bowl with Armorall. While he was playing it while sitting, that slippery sucker slid right off his lap, landed on the floor, and there were many shattered pieces of Ovation to clean up.
try a strap
Ovation makes the best pickup system out there.... I love the 24 frets as well. I have 3 of em and play them out live 3 to 4 nights a week. Great guitars.
The best? then why have i had to replace the piezo elements so many times in my 70's Ovations
@@BillyBongwaters Anything mechanical/man made wears out. 40 years is a long time. You have proven my point more than you know. Think.... just think.
Ovations are easily the worst acoustic guitars ever created. They sound bland acousticly and plugged in.
Tupperware shitbox
Dang, "the Self Destruct Mechanism is essentially initiated"...profound, true, and (sadly) hilarious. I never liked Ovation guitars for all of the reasons that you mentioned...plus they simply don't sound, feel, or respond in a "real" way to my earbulbs & phingies. // I totally love your videos...thanks, again. - A
I had an Ovation (forget the model) that grew quite a belly, ensuing extra light Martin strings, turned out to be the best slide guitar I ever owned. Who knew? With extra light strings, yet!?
Ovation is still a High quality, well made instrument; severe atmosphere changes will damage any guitar, especially an all wood one
Lets not form an angry mob with lit torches because of problems with one old guitar
Finally a true and reasonable comment. I own three 1980’s Ovations tuned to NST, higher tension, and no problems. They are very well made and will last a lifetime if taken care of. I can only speak for the US Connecticut models. Don’t know if same applies to foreign made. Cheers!
Nice job. Funny though, I always thought the reason for their popularity was their stability, though i never went on tour with mine. But my 90's Elite Custom Deep Bowl is rock solid. Extremely comfortable, plays like a dream and stays in tune. It may not have the deepest tone like a dreadnaught (i use light gauge strings), but its my go to for spontaneous playing.
I am the original owner of a 1986 Custom Balladeer 1712 with a graphite neck, no issues whatsoever
Kept in its case and played often in various tunings. Pictures upon request :)
Keeping an acoustic guitar in a case as often as possible is close to the best thing you can do to maintain/preserve it’s shape, performance and overall health. It slows the changes in temperature and humidity and or keeps it in a more regulated state. Good thing you’ve done that.
When I saw the suction cup to get the glue into the crack I just had to click "like" (after laughing out loudly) :) Great job!
Use of a suction cup is actually pretty standard. Stewmac's crack repair kit includes a fancier version, but the concept is the same (www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_Resources/Learn_About_Repair_Tools_and_Repair_Techniques/StewMac_Crack_Repair_Tool_Instructions.html).
I wish twoodfrd would have shown his technique for clamping the cleats, though, since he seems to have installed too many to have used stewmac style wire "clamps."
@@repoman7804 Yeah. Suction cups are a real deal. Dan E, at Stew Mac uses them plenty... I've tried using compresses air to blow glue into cracks but that's a risky mess. The use of suction cups to work glue into cracks was inspired brilliance.
Hmmm...I still have a couple Ovation guitars from the 80’s and they are in perfect shape. Maybe they just like the weather in California. 😊
Very good video ! I had exactly the same problem on the upper part of the bridge on my Ovation Elite 1993, Super Shallow Bowl, black color.
At the time, some people told me that the black color sometimes hid small defects in the wood. Since then I haven't bought a black guitar...
I never cared for playing one of those turtleback guitars, weird to hold especiatally if your sitting down.
@David Wang agreed. love my usa built one. it's my goto when at home. electronics are incredible for the price range.
You either have 5 competitors or 5 jealous haters. Or a combo of both. Your videos always get a 👍🏻 from me. Great work!
I do dig the aluminum neck on my ovation Matrix (down market Ovvation - no electronics, dont know what the tops made of...) Its a really loud guitar, too. And an effing tank. keeps in tune. hate the slippy plastic, slide off your leg/lap back. had to glue no-slip stuff on
I have a 1977 Ovation Custom Balladeer that I bought new, and it is still in great shape. No cracks, great action, little chunk missing off the head stock where it fell of a chair I had stupidly put it on. But even that didn't damage the rest of the guitar, still plays great. They're rugged as hell!
Superb repair job on that wonderful old Ovation. It is sad that those wonderful guitar were just not built to last long term in dry conditions.
i've never met a wood instrument that lasts "long term" in dry conditions.
I did a double take to see if the one I’m working on is the same guitar! Top isn’t as badly warped but nearly the same crack on a 1767 Model. Great information!
You raised some interesting points in the video regarding the materials and construction methods employed by Ovation. The plastic back married to the wooden top is a recipe for disaster and the strange bracing pattern doesn’t help. I think that if they’d used a carbon fibre material for the top they’d have been on to a winner. Like you I suspect that that Ovation guitars were never designed to last a really long time.
Henry Hunter,the Adamas guitars ovation builds are carbon fiber,hand built guitars. Very,very fine sounding guitars. I’ve owned quite a few over the years.
Yes I was sort of aware that some of the very top line models had synthetic tops. It’s good to hear they’re more durable than the wooden ones. Maybe I’ll get to try one sometime, the idea is intriguing.
It's a formula to keep customers buying new Ovations every few years.
I have a '68 12 string, a '72 Artist, an '82 Legand, an '83 Adamas, a '97 Parlor...
They are not disposable guitars. I toured with the Adamas for 30 years. It held up better than the cases.
Even in a world of Rainsongs, Ovations still get the most shade.
I bought an Ovation 25 years ago, got a sound hole plug just to make it quieter, but man, it really saved the guitar, as I keep it in the stand out in the open. Once a year, I take off the plug, put tiny bowl with a wet sponge in it inside of the guitar, replace the sound hole plug, and let it sit for a week with the wet sponge inside.
My problem is while the body doesn't seem to be bulging, I'm out of saddle to shave and the action is getting higher, and there's nowhere to go. A neck reset wouldn't be worth it.
My tech refuses to work on these. Whenever one is brought in he suggests cutting the top off to have a kitty litter box with a handle
Moon Child they sound about the same too!
Why? Is he so pompous he doesn’t like making money? Al DiMeola played them for years..IMO,the OP24 electronics are amazing..to each his own.
@@warmoth68 His thing was that they were too much stress for him to work on for what needed to be done to them. Ovations have great electronics, the rest? Not so much.
I bet he's really fun at parties. (/sarcasm)
@@MrTwostring actually he was a riot. One of my favorite memories of him is he had a guitar with a sticker on it that said "Doomlord" on it from a rotund fellow, and called him while I was there to tell him his guitar was ready, quote "Hey doomlard your guitar is ready"
My 1979 Ovation Balladeer has a similar issue but without the cracks fortunately. A great tech adjusted the action to the limit to make it playable but the action is very low. Almost too low. I guess a humidifier may improve things or at least stop any cracks from developing. Great video and amazing guitar rescue! 👍
Very nice save on the Ovation.
Ive had two Ovation guitars. Both of them had severe issues. I wont have another one!
I had a ovation in the early 1970’s that had a aluminum fret board that eventually wore out and BUZZED like crazy, but had a real sustain before all that happened to it
Mickstone, Yeah, I had an Ovation Applause similar to the one you describe. The entire fret board was milled aluminum (hard, not soft, presumably aerospace-grade alloy) and the frets were square (not rounded) and rough, not polished at all. It was a piece of junk!. I raised up the strings and used it for acoustic lap steel and Dobro style slide playing.
Great video... as usual. But I did miss seeing you do a minute of demo at the end of the video. BTW, my 70s/80s Applause AA-31 is holding up pretty good, but then again, there are SOME benefits to having a plywood top. It was my FIRST guitar. It certainly is my WORST guitar... but it's the one I pick up and play almost every day.
Have a 50 year old one. Developed one crack fairly early on. Never repaired, but is still going fine. I will be more mindful of humidity though.
Watching this channel and Stew Mac's channel is interesting stuff. I can't imagine what it takes to get as good at this as you are. My only acoustic is a cheaper Korean Ovation I got about 14 years ago and it's holding up well so far. I keep it in the case and I don't play it but every 5-6 weeks because I'm mostly playing electric, but it sounds good enough and plays well. I doubt I'd buy it again if I had that purchase to do over, though. I do like the pinless bridges on these guitars because it makes changing strings simple, but I wonder how that holds up over time since it seems a lot more string pressure is placed on the bridge.
I had an ovation once, found it at a pawn shop for crazy cheap. It didn't sound terrible but it was far from what id choose to play today. The bowl shape was a nightmare. Standing up and playing was fine but I bought it as a beater to practice with at home while watching tv or to take out when jamming and having a couple beers with friends. But playing it sitting down it was constantly sliding out from the bottom. It didn't have much of a leg contour at all to act as a shelf and the slick back made it so much worse. It projected ok but I'd personally never buy another one. I've been through so many acoustic guitars trying to get the Martin tone and playability on a budget ($350-$725). Some were ok some were so bad that they cramped up your fingers after a few minutes. Ive finally got to the point where I've had enough and I'm gonna finally get a Martin next week for my birthday. I've always loved the tone of Martin's. Nobody else has it, Taylor's have never impressed me in the slightest. They are just regular sounding/playing guitars that are overpriced bit with nothing to justify it other than materials used. I don't have a ton of money since the covid situation but I've planned on buying a Martin for myself on my 30th birthday for awhile. I'm gonna get a D10e Sitka and finally stop trying to get the Martin tone out of everything except a Martin lol.
I originally thought the sturdy back would make the instrument more durable.... this video is totally correcting my misconception. Maybe replacing the top with thin carbon fibre would be a better idea....
Hello, I am an Ovation owner, and my guitar doesn't seem to be as bad as yours. I am intrigued whether or not it can have some life breathed back into it. It is a Balladeer ser # 353370, made in 1985-1986
Mine cracked too. A 1980 Balladeer. Same with a coworker. It was in the case forever. Still plays nice.
Tupperware shitbox
I have a 50yr old Alvarez acoustic and if you seen it you would think it wasnt more than 10yrs old! New bone nut and saddle, strings, and string pegs are all it's ever needed! People dont take care of their stuff is the issue. In america people buy 300thousand dollar lamborghinis and then crash into a tree! They dont care but then want you to fix it.🤷♂️
Great info. I just found an 80s 1869 in a Phoenix AZ pawn for $150 with a crack that I'm gpi going to attempt to repair.
Skills! I really appreciate your sharing this wonderful knowledge and the intelligent vocabulary and commentary you present it with.
So refreshing thank you.
That crack is a way to go even in tropics. The top could even loosen from the body.
Like Willie said, you keep this guitar going, and I'll keep going. Or something like that...)
I couldn't imagine spending any money to fix one of those.
never thought of getting the ovation guitar too dry would cause it to self-destroy... Cuz one day my Ovation just blew up
I'm Lucky that I have a video of paying it 😭
Have the same guitar, I purchased it in the mid 80’s and had a temperature variation issue which caused sound board cracking and the binding at the side were the two edges meet, to separate. The other issue I did not find out about till way after I got this instrument, was they never installed the truss rod. I was the original owner and when I when to have some setup done my guitar tech pointed it out to me. It is now worthless wall art.
Their whole brand sounds like a nightmare
I saw a real fancy one in a pawn shop. They wanted 300 with a nice case. Was thinking of buying it until I saw it had the same problem. We have nobody around here to fix it other then a guitar chain store. Which would be crazy expensive.
I'v just subscribed to your channel and it's a pleasure watching you work!
I feel better about not bringing my 80's vintage Ovation to northwest New Mexico (dry) from near Houston, TX (hot and humid). Same with my 80's vintage Yamaha
In the late 70’s and 80’s you couldn’t swing a dead cat without hitting someone playing an Ovation guitar.
Numerous great things about Ovation and one big problem, case in point!!
That may explain why I found a dead cat in my guitar!😱😂
@@calsurflance5598
Love it!!!!
Used to own a classic Ovation 12 string from the 80"s, moved to the west from Ontario. The top was warped before I left(about 20 some odd years. My bro decided it was worthless and torched it!!
I had plans of putting a laminate top on it, changing the array of bracing.
Let bygones be bygones! Am still pissed! Was a beautiful guitar!!
Always loved Ovations. Had a 1995 Limied Edition which gave me years of joy. Still have an Adamas. Bought a Main Stage SX and it was screaming that it was a 'Custom shop instrument' but turn out to be a piece of crap. Brought it to a tech who was reluctant to work on it and quoted half the instrument's price to repair. Fortunately another tech's price was reasonable and the results were beautiful. It played and sounded better then when new. Shpuld have to take so much effort to do so. And the workmanship of this 'Custom Shop' guitar leaves much to be desired. My love affair Ovation is over after this cause the new management doesn't seem to have their shit together. :(
Tupperware shitbox
Excellent job. Interesting that a guitar shares some similarities with the violin, but is different in many ways. One item that is not present in a guitar is the sound post. The linkage between upper and lower faces of a violin is never (to my knowledge) used on a guitar as the rear surface is usually pressed against the player's body anyway. This would perhaps help prevent the deformation we see here. Also, the violin uses a "trapeze bridge" that does not cause a rotating force on the face, but only and compressive force there. All these things contribute to a guitar being unstable. Forces are at work to collapse and distort the top. Perhaps a change in design would prevent that.
The Ovation, as you say, is a combination of dynamic material and unyielding material. It requires a "cleavage membrane" where the top joins the sides. This is an engineering feature often used when there are dynamics attacking a rigid installation. An example is when ceramic tile is put onto a floor that is subject to distortion either because of expansion or deflection.
Excellent video and excellent repair. IMHO
Check out the JLD Bridge Doctor
Ovation Guitars...
The ONLY THING THAT SURVIVED JIM CROCE'S PLANE CRASH!!!
No. Maury’s Martin was displayed at his closed casket funeral.
Its crazy, I have an Ovation since 1983 and I've never babied it, I mean its been in the hot trunk of my car until the cased literally blistered. It had to have been 120+ in there (Vegas baby). Also never used a humidifier ever. Still pristine after all this time. I bought it because it was a fad at the time and now the damn thing wont die.
tool list for proper ovation repair:
1- 10 lb hammer
1- gallon gasoline
1- zippo lighter
works every time
When I was about 18 I didnt have any money as most 18 year olds lol. So o had to sell all my guitars and my amp for bills and likely to pay a speeding ticket or two. Anyways I havent been without a guitar since I was 7. So I went to a local pawn shop and bought a "well loved" ovation. It certainly had damage from drying out around the binding which lead to a deformity an many small cracks. I remember it sounded ok, I even recorded a couple songs with it. But I couldn't get used to the damn bowl shape. Anytime I played sitting down it would roll outwards. And of course back then I didnt use straps unless I was playing standing. When money was less tight I got a new acoustic and sold the ovation. Sadly I completely forgot that when I bought the ovation it came with a weird brown ugly case. I put it up in my barn on the top storage part and forgot about it. Lol now I have a completely useless ovation case and no ovation or plans to get another. Even if I did plan on getting another (I finally got my Martin after 20 years of playing and its everything I'd hoped or would be after playing hundreds of Martins over the years) ovation, which again I dont, the bowl shapes arent all the same and would require a different case probably. If anyone sees this and you live in DFW message me. I'll give you the case for free. If anyone else is interested I'll gladly send it to you if you pay shipping lol.
Do you ever refinish any guitars?
Had my first Ovation for 25 years without a problem Used it heavily, and lived in the north east
When I moved to South Florida and made the mistake of having it shipped with my furniture, one week in a storage unit cracked the finish on the top
There is absolutely no damage to the wood face, just a few hair line fractures to the poly finish; anyone has any ideas on an inexpensive fix? Other than the standard to high action on the upper neck, the guitar still plays wonderfully
The method would be the same as described multiple times on Ted's and other luthiers' channels - fill with thin CA glue, level with a razorblade and polish with a few grit levels of wet sandpaper and then some buffing product. Pretty easy job if you can practice a couple of times on some other guitar just to get the hang of the process
@@rayzberg thanks buddy
Because of the rounded back and sides the Ovaltine guitars are Very difficult to use while sitting. They want to roll and turn into a Dobro.
Quick break to check out the sound hole humidifier on the Martin my sister gave me.
Perhaps a silly question -- but how involved would a soundboard replacement be on a guitar like this?
Very involved. Just check how they're made:
ua-cam.com/video/UWB22iSrD98/v-deo.html
I guess the Saving Grace to these, are that it seems every last one of them sounds exactly the same... They do to me, anyhow.
I once owned the Glen Campbell model and the neck dipped severely as it joined the body, there was separation on the top, right down the center and a poor action with buzzing. I decided just to sell on eBay with a reduced price just to get shut of it. The guitar never sounded great acoustically and plugged in it was very brittle sounding. I never missed it either. Some of the newer models look nice but I would rather play an all timber guitar.
Fantastic video, albiet maybe too short. I'm suspecting that I may have some luthier blood in my heritage.
@ you are so right about that
@ Ben from Crimson guitars comes to mind of your mention of prattle. So much so I cannot sit through his videos.
I just found this one. My band partner finished one of our pieces and posted it to band camp yesterday. He renamed it "No More Ovations" which had nothing to do with the guitars or this video. But, I had to admit, I've never liked Ovations. They want to fly out of my lap when I play. I suppose one could put rubber, non skid material on the guitar... or make rubber pants. That might work.
I bought an Ovation back in ‘74, and it actually had a rubber pad on the back to prevent the thing sliding down your leg. Which was fine I guess, but the glue under the pad eventually softened and the pad came off. Seemed like a good idea at the time.
My friend has one one these that’s 40 years old
Whether you use a humidifier or not Ovation is notorious for soundboard cracking the structural bracing they use does no help to keep the board solid.
I own 4 Ovation's and never had any issues, I suspect this is a Korean made O and not a USA made one.
This is why I shy from Ovation brand.
Should there be any considerations moving a guitar from California to a very humid place like Alabama? Should I let it aclimate before playing it?
If it was to go horribly wrong could it not get a new top
Fascinsting vid mate, thanks for sharing. Was that plain old PVA glue you worked into the crack or something fancier? Very glad UA-cam recommended you. Thanks again.
A radical design that was the best stage acoustic in its day. I was thinking exactly the same before you said it. Buy one, make it earn its living, junk it, replace it. Shame. They actually had a nice sound, (check out early Joan Armatrading, anyone who doesn't know). Nowadays carbon fibre top, fancier electronics... You made it work again, so respect.
Tupperware shitbox
Hey man,
I just want to say you are a master of the craft, I live in Atlantic Canada I was wondering which sound hole dehumidifier would you recommend?
I usually go for the Oasis ones. They're pricey but they don't leak and they seem to work.
Never been a fan of Ovation guitars. Now I like them even less after seeing how they are built.
I know they have their fans but in all honesty I've never heard/played one of these that I'd consider spending money on if it needed repairs.
OK, Honestly I don't like Ovation guitars of any sort, but different strokes for different folks. You know more about guitars in your little finger than I'll ever know, and I'm sure this job was on a budget. Pull the top, make new top with Martin style braces and over sized bridge plate, (didn't notice a bridge plate at all in that thing) or take all the braces off the old top and do the same, after the crack repairs. May last a little longer. Or make a top out of 1/2 inch plywood with 2x4 braces. Anyway, nice job repairing that thing.
Not being microwave-safe is the problem.
My Ovations hang in the Laundry room..I fell down, same crack
Hi twoford, are you based in Ontario and can you reset a lifting bridge on a CS247...thanks
How do u keep an ovation from cracking I live in Carlsbad new mexico very dry here I keep it polished regularly wat do I need to do for all seasons
It's amazing how many of these guitar were sold from paying top musicians to use these guitars in public, ala Glen Cambell, Paul Simon etc.
True i saw one the other day from afar. I went, this guitar looks very familiar. very 60s.... hmmm... oh fuck me Glen cambell... Oh an OVation! i wouldnt have recognised it otherwise
Ritchie Sambora as well. I specifically remember the ads back in the day
I have a Minstrel (made in Canada of course) and I noticed the fretboard extension takes a dip like this Ovation has. How do I know if that's by design or an issue?
A dip is usually better than a rise. Often the high frets are dressed down in that area to reduce the chances of buzzing.
@@twoodfrd Thanks for the fast reply :) It's a very special acoustic and I'm trying to keep it "unmodified" but still functional.
I just love my Gibby LP Standard it just plays everytime I pick it up Sure it was made in indonisia in 2005 by a man with a name this keyboard can't type, I don't even keep mine in a case it is out either in my hands or on the stand every day. My acoustic is a Jameson thinline full size it just sits in it's gig bag happy as a clam ... I don't think I would ever have any interest in an Ovation.... seems like it is, as you sai, a throw away guitar
A GIBSON made in Indonesia?
Yipes! Super dry. It's funny, I tell people the same thing - an acoustic in a dry climate really needs a hard case and humidifier. Most don't listen.
*I too am affected by dryness, it makes my jokes quite dull.*
I dont know how my father has maintained an Ovation Ultra since the 80s without an humidifier, these guitars look like a pain in the ass to fix when things do go wrong
Thanks for your comment. I was wondering if Ovations had always had this problem. I suppose that the dissimilarity between top and bowl materials is the major issue here because the composite bowl doesn't contract and expand like the wood top. I believe that the only real solution would be a carbon fiber top. Wood and other synthetic materials don't get along well together.
my ovation has a warped body how can i fix it
twoodfrd - I'm trying to replace the soundboard of a seriously ill friend I've known for 55 years since I was 7!
I'm having trouble trying to locate this soundboard. Off hand, I believe the model is 1917
Any idea where I could find one? Also, I've never done any repair on an Ovation, however, I have to think the edge will become unstable and flop around which will complicate setting the replacement challenging.
Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
I dig the channel, I've watched numerous videos and learned volumes, but only posted a few comments, which you always replied to, so thank you for that!
Jack ~'()'~ Canada...aye!
Thanks for another great video, but I have a question. Given the number of cleats you made, I assume you didn't use stewmac style wire "clamps" to pull your cleats tight, esp on that long crack. Did you somehow manage to get a pair of long acrylic cleats squeezing inside/outside with sound hole clamps? I would imagine that would be quite difficult to accomplish, so I'm wondering if you had some clever technique to share?
Thanks James, I'll try and film it next time but yes -2 acrylic cauls and some extra-long reach clamps for the initial crack glue. I used magnets for the cleats. I get the distant ones in place with a long pair of medical hemostats.
@@twoodfrd Ah, OK. And yeah, I meant cauls, not cleats. So you set the glue in the crack while held in place by clamped cauls, then added the cleats separately, which were held in place with magnets. Thanks for the explanation.
you are very skilled at guitar fixing nice work repairing a piece of junk...
👍
I have an ovation which is doing the same thing but not as bad . What do you charge for a repair like that? I would like to save the guitar.
I would assume adding or replacing braces would change the tone slightly of an acoustic. Am I wrong there?
Anything you do to a guitar may change the sound a little, but would you rather a player or a wall hanger?
Have you tried the gluboost products for repairs?
I have an old ugly brownish tan ovation case if anyone needs one in the DFW area. Free if you pick it up!
Ovations sound great through a PA. But not that great to play straight acoustic.
that's a bad top... saw someone in the philippines replaced the soundboard at the result was good
How can that be cost effective?
If this is someone's favorite guitar or has sentimental value, then spending some $ on repair is cost effective to that person, you can't just compare the cost of repair to what a guitar is worth $ wise in every case, many guitars have value to their owners that far exceed their $ value on the guitar market.
What about the bottom crack?