Another PT Cruiser workaround. Our PT Cruiser had the Transmission "Limp" mode P0882. Ivan did a bypass with a relay back in June 2019 and the car has been fine ever since. We have put 45,000 miles on it since then. Ivan never gives up. Thank you.
Hi Ivan, Nice video's on the PT Cruiser. I think I can explain why it appeared to fix itself. The original failure was no drive to the O2 heaters. You diagnosed it as a bad PCM. This was obviously correct. You then supplied your own supply to the heaters and it worked but you left the original driver in the PCM connected as you did not disconnect the heater wires from the connector. In doing this, you left a 12v supply on the driver fet drain pin. The failure in the fet was most likely a short, probably between the drain to the body. (if were a failure involving the gate, it wouldn't switch. The gate is basically a capacitor) Remember, current in an IC is all about surface area of the structures. With the constant 12 volts applied to the drain, there was a current path to the short and eventually it heated enough to burn through the short. Now it will work but depending where on the drain finger the short was, the current capacity will be reduced. The lamp gave the circuit a bit extra load to get it to operate.
You just convinced me that you need to be a PHD in electronic engineering to work on today's vehicles, not just a good mechanic, like I have been my whole life.
I can't imagine the response my mechanic would give me if I told him to check the bulb under the hood because I've got an engine light! This work around is Einstein level man!
You know, I don't think Ivan has ever asked people to subscribe!! Put out quality consistant content, and they'll come! Congratulations on the growth of your channel!!
Hi Ivan, electronics repair person here ....... This is actually a common fault mode, I have managed to extend the life of a few irreplaceable components that have failed in this exact same way by adding a pullup resistor (instead on your bulb) between the driver output and the positive supply rail. As we saw in your part 1 video on the scope, the driver was actually working but weak, it was not able to drive the full 0-12v range, but when you add voltage via a current limiting resistor, you are actually reducing the amount of work that the driver has to do to drive up to the supply voltage
Hi.i will like to thank ivan for making this very interesting video. I have another pt cruiser with the exact same problem and luckily for me I found this very useful video. But I have a question for the electronic expert of this comment : can you please explain in a little more detail on how to wire the pull-up resistor and what value of a resistor it needs ?. Thanks in advance.
Love your creativity Ivan. This fix is fairly indicative of a bad resistor or capacitor in the PCM itself. Suggest to your customer they source a good PCM when they can and be prepared to swap it down the road when you can no longer hack up a fix.
As one of your other viewers pointed out, what you actually did was supply a pull-up voltage to the output stage that is either a transistor or FET. The module required a voltage that could be modulated with the pulses you saw with the bulb brightness changing. A proper valued resistor would have accomplished the same result. Most likely there is a burnt resistor or trace within the module. This bypass fix should last until the module fails in another way. Great find and quite a creative fix.
it's a bodge . BUT it works , therefor it IS a repair. the next mechanic may be confused about it , but can replicate the fix if it goes wrong. i once added a regulator to a bike , as a bodge , attached it to the crashbar , a year later bike came in ...still attached ! and working.
All this PT turbo need is an icon on dashboard that says “PHAD MODE” and lighted with the lightbulb you installed. This car has been officially “PHADED”!
Strange issue with the driver circuit. Was the sensors OEM 50AA and 49AA. Seen some other video on the web were they explained that the heater element are activated fully on startup, and when the sensor have the correct temp, the PCM start pulsing the heater. Perhaps if the sensors doesnt have the right resistance on startup control the PCM disabel the heater circuit.
the one thing that I remember well from Scanner Danner lectures is , that you should ALWAYS install OEM Oxy sensors on Chryslers ( the ECM is very picky about them ) - otherwise there will be problems
If you could pop open that computer and look at those drivers under a microscope or even a really good magnifying glass, you'd probably see 'tin whiskers'. The addition of the light as a current source likely vaporized them temporarily allowing the circuit to become active. They regrow/repopulate very, very quickly once they start in the first place. NASA figured out in the 60's, you must have a 60% lead 40% tin solder blend or it will grow the equivalent of metal 'stalagmites' and depending on temperature/current/humidity, etc, it happens pretty quickly. It's a phenomenon, I was introduced to in the USAF where we discovered some of our critical aviation parts were being manufactured under the new 'low lead' standard. Turns out when your power source is perfect 400hz, the 'Tin Whiskers' grow really, really fast. Working with Lockheed engineers, we quickly/quietly usurped environmentalist wackos and put a stop to it worldwide (if you fly on airplanes, you're welcome). It's a frustrating anomaly because the whiskers, being so thin will typically vaporize instantly, causing a fault, yet leave no trace unless you examine them under magnification. Excellent videos as always.
@@kk-pz8gn I'm retired, I don't have all the cool tools the US tax payer provided me while on duty. That and most of what I was involved in was technically 'classified', not nearly as cool as it sounds. I can talk about the tin whiskers, that's public knowledge. If I didn't say it before, google nasa + tin whiskers, you should get a very nice technical write up from a long time ago.
probably the PCM powers the heater 100% until it reaches operating temperature, then modulates in PWM to keep it at temperature. And perhaps it could be able to measure the resistance itself, or maintain a certain duty cycle calculated and established by the PCM software.
"That's unfortunate"....., but expected.....I gotta wonder if the whole problem is aftermarket o2s? Interesting 'fix'.. LOL. Welp, at least I called it on the lower control arm bushings. Thx for bringing us along on this 1 Ivan :)
One thing to consider. Is the resistance of the O2 sensor heater circuit within spec for the coding of the PCM? I've seen where the sensor is 'functional' but outside spec for what the PCM wants. One vehicle I can think of will ONLY work correctly with an NTK or Denso O2 sensor, none of the other brands including Bosch will modulate correctly in place and throw sensor codes. That is also a Chrysler around that era.
"Some voltage" really just means the PCM sees a higher resistance/lower amperage. It makes sense that if one or both drivers is broken, the circuit would be out of range of normal detected resistance. Or if the sensor heaters have slightly too low resistance compared to expected spec. Without more individual testing of the drivers it sounds like the latter may actually be the case? But if so, I would expect this "hack" to be completely fine as long as the bulb lasts. Also I'm surprised you still used your multimeter so much (not scope) after it was obvious that the driver is PWM. Those meter readings are probably garbage 😁
Hey Ivan. So from what i understand, 1 Oxy heater driver worked and 1 not. You could use a transistor with gate/control contected to working heater control and your jumped wire instaed of the bulb. The bulb solution could eventually burn the PCM control circuit after some time. We will see. But inventive solution from you anyway. good job man.
Kudos to you for being stubborn and trying multiple things even with the customer there watching. Sometimes you just need time to think and ponder and test. Takes a strong character to do that with an audience.
So the drivers came back to life when you added resistance to the heater circuit? I wonder if the (aftermarket?) o2 sensor heaters were drawing too much current, and the drivers were shutting off for self protection? It would be interesting to see the amperage draw of those 02 heaters compared to a new set from the dealership.
On my 2006 Daihatsu Terios, the front (upper) oxygen sensor's heating circuit failed after 14 years and of course the check engine light came on. As we have to pay so much for OEM equipment in South Africa I replaced the sensor with one costing a sixth the price. It worked fine but after a year the fuel consumption took a hike . All the scans seemed normal - STFT and LTFT, sensor voltage etc . By this time Daihatsu had pulled out of the country and no OEM was available. As it was just the heater of the original sensor that was faulty I reasoned that I could bull dust the ECU into thinking the heater was working. Also that particular sensor is situated just after the exhaust manifold and I reasoned the temperature of the exhaust gases should heat up and stay hot just as if the heater were present. So ,I simply put a half watt resistance across the pair of heater wires and tried it out. To my surprise it worked with fuel consumption immediately back to its original mpg; L/100km. Subsequently I found an OEM sensor in Latvia of all places and have purchased it "just in case". But after 18 months the "modified" version is still working just fine. My only observation is that the rule of thumb that OEM is best practise is the cheapest and best way to go.....I did toy with using a light globe instead of a resistance, but opted for the resistance as we do a lot of dirt road driving in our game reserves on corrugated roads where things like light globes get shaken and ones teeth start to rattle.
Unless the bulb is somehow providing a variable resistance, I think I would have measured the resistance across the bulb and wired in an appropriate resistor. Excellent how you narrowed down the location of the problem.
19:13 You've done it again Ivan... You're the real life Macgyver of UA-cam in auto repairs... Great Vid. Like the rest of your channel. Keep up the good work and out of the question ideas on troubleshooting... Cheers...
The computer knows... and will not reveal the mystery. They're nice- but also a pain. Just had a Dell computer lock up (no detachable battery), so it sat and produced heat until the battery went dead. Great design, guyzz.
Thanks Ivan. Does beg the question what you would say if this ‘fix’ turned up at your place as the ‘next guy’. Nice work-around but struggle to see this as a ‘thing of beauty’.
Took a bit of tweaking but it looks like it’s happy. Just shows to go ya that getting off the beaten path can be a fun journey. Another successful bypass surgery. Nice work Ivan. 🆒👍👍🇺🇸
Ok I have to watch this several times to understand but making this kind of tests helps to see how the computer manages the oxygen sensor information and the strategies to reach a stoichiometric state. Very interesting... 👍
Ivan apparently the driver output is a bridge. It has an active pull up and pull down. I think the active pull up transistor is blown but the pull down is ok. Your light bulb is a passive pull up. The pull up needs quite a lot of current so the passive resistance must be pretty low resistance. The pull down can still pull it low but will draw quite a lot of current. Over time the pull down might die from overheating. Depends on if the duty cycle has to go to zero for extended periods and how beefy that pull down transistor is
Dood you hearts my heart. Ivan for what you had you did a great job. My comment added to someone else has nothing to do with my respect for the way you do things. Again sry for any disrespect. Sincerely. Chester,
Great videos! I’m a shade tree mechanic and I learn so much from your videos! Only question I had was why you didn’t add the socket for the light bulb to the circuit so the owner could easily change his own bulbs, if needed.
now have a passive and active CEL spare bulb in glove box mandatory the bulb in effect is a variable resistor love it I do use switched fuses to eliminate parasitic draws, put the car to sleep with a switch
Some times you just have to do a "Walk Around". Years ago We had a glitch in the computer that I was working on. If we put a scope on it the problem went away. Logistically we knew the problem but could not see it it. The capacity of the scope probe fixed the problem. The solution was to add a capacitor to the system on all systems. No problem after that. The lightbulb fixed the problem. This deserves an "ATTABOY"!!
I really think that you and Eric from south main auto should do couple more videos together like you guys have in the past that would be some awesome videos buddy and thank you for all your hard work that you put into thousands of videos god bless and be safe 😊
The answer for this working is most likely because the drivers used a pull up resistor that opened. Your lamp replaces that resistor. Would be easy to draw out on paper.
May be, that the driver for positive supply of heater burned. But when running pwm mode after heating, then pulses with negative (ground) are working fine and thats why its blinking the bulb. Then the bulb is in fact overload protection for negative PCM pulses. Very nice.
I had a clink in the left rear for more than a year. When I had some work done at two different shops for other things they looked for the clink and found nothing. Then one day I was checking the air in the spare tire. And found that the jack wrenches were just laying there loose. Wrapped them in a towel and my clink was gone. I must remember to check my spare tire air more often than 1-1/2 years.
It doesn’t matter the brand Ivan does his best to fix / Repair / rebuild / Russian hack. & send them back into the wild …Ivan’s approach & diagnostic skills are top notch
I would've either got another PCM or got that one refurbished because what's to say that the fault won't come back ? It's happened more than once when you've repaired it that way,it might be o.k. to do it on your own car but not on a customers car !
I can't wait for another video from another shop with this dame car, like your friends at South Main, when Eric finds a blinking light bulb , he will be sure to bleep out some words !! LOL !
This kind of Issues makes you learn more because you don't feel satisfied of what you did even when most people think is awesome you know something here it doesn't make sense completely, I would like you were replace the PCM because is a cheap computer on ebay, good deals less than $200, change the VIN with your scanner which will make your IMMO be ok, software can be updated with chrysler J2534 software legacy, there is a lot of options you have to this and a lot of videos on UA-cam that can help to do this and makes you be in a next level of Diag, but unfortunately no matter how many NEW PCMs, OEM HO2S or Harnesses you replaced, DTCs WILL come back for sure, and that tells us that sometimes we ignore so many things; and that's ok, we are humans, we don't know everything, I THINK this is more of a problem where manufacturers doesn't give you enough information about how much current (amps) or resistance PCM expects to see when Heater is Cold and after EVERY second ckt is monitored because resistance chances every second with the temperature on heaters, that's why PCM modulates signal and you saw Bulbs flickering which proves driver is in GOOD CONDITION in this PCM but not happy or calibrated with your actual HO2S Heater resistance even if it were OE parts, troubleshooting chart from Chrysler doesn't give you those details to diagnose what algorithm results could set DTCs when ignition is turn on or while running, but for sure there's an algorithm that calculates that and depending on the software level is going better or more restrictive but who knows exactly what changes are from one update to next one and so on unless with a tuning software you can see those differences, when we humans don't understand something is more easily just justify us saying is not worth the vehicke because total value of this car is very little or other things like that, but for Diagnosticians what really important here should be, if we CANNOT understand technology in a Chrysler 2003 how we can stand up with a 2024 or 2030 and so on later in the future, so WE end up patching or modifying things what we not fully understand from Engineers and finding excuses (I Know they are humans that's why Versions of software exist to patch errors), but for us is like We are always smarter than who develop and not always the case if we don't think like Engineers think, we need to try to think like Engineers so next time find a better solution or conclusion instead of stop thinking as we solve the problem. I know Ivan is very smart that's why I see his videos but when I like someone, I want them to improve themselves so I know this going to make him elevate his level of Diag in electronics even better which involves not only replacing USED modules but cloning, configuring (coding) if necessary not in this case or flashing, etc. Because so many Diags end up having to replace modules and no always is module itself, probably 80% of modules replaced is misdiagnosed because of lack of knowledge of software operations and lack of information from manufacturers, another consideration is humans develops software and algorithm and no always are calibrated to CORRECT parts AGING, that's why newer vehicles HAVE Parts Replacements as Special Functions on their scanners. Another thing to consider even with OE Parts, there's what is called Parts CONSOLIDATION if you flash last software for that 2003 probably that Software Level was let's say 2010 or less, if after 7 years Emission Parts Don't have Warranty anymore so Chrysler don't care this car anymore to have software updates, probably for 3 to 5 years they care if they lose money for warranty after that only if it's dangerous situation where the vehicle can get on fire probably be the case if not we are alone. A solution that people with this problem which in my Opinion I CONSIDER is a problem of software in the algorithm because at least should have HO2S Replacement Function and a better calculation (check DRBIII because I don't remember at this time if this 2003 have it but I don't think so) but try doing this to get rid of this DTCs. First Clear DTCs KOEO and after overnight at morning disconnect PCM connector only for HO2S and apply B+ with Ammeter for 60 seconds for both Heaters then quickly put that connector back to PCM and start it up right away in less than A MINUTE and PCM won't set DTCs because their resistance are higher because they are warmed up, then drive it for about 20 minutes and park it for 5 minutes or more usually a few seconds after shutting off engine heater monitor will run and PCM will not set DTCs, algorithm will see as Everything OK I Would like to comment more on this because know there's a lot to say in this particular case which I like Ivan have but I liked to participate and give my opinion and I hope people may have another alternative like this one with $0 in expenses only jumping heaters as I said having this algorithm watching heaters current within specs, and when monitor wil run again hopefully algorithm makes a better calculation about what current to expect (If I remember correctly 3 years ago when I had this exact problem with 05 PT Cruiser 2.4T BIN 5 Emission Calibration, with Pico or any other scope you'll see current is monitored when you turn Ignition on, there is a very first short pulse when algorithm evaluates circuit for a few milliseconds and probably every time PCM monitor runs) because this is a common problem for people who still have PT Cruisers and/or Chrysler with software of this era I hope we can learn more from this. Thank you Ivan for you effort to be better technician helping people every day. 15:32
Ivan appears to me that the O2 sensors installed are drawing too much current. The PCM is programmed to current limit or shut itself down when excess current is drawn in the heater circuit. AKA short circuit protection. By installing the bulb you are limiting the current that the PCM has to deliver.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I do not recall seeing you measure the initial pulse duration to the heaters. If over current the PCM will measure and turn off the current to the heaters in a few clock pulses of the PCM CPU probably a few usec. (If my assumption is correct!?)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics from service info pcm checks heater circuits with engine off after a drive. The Oxygen Sensor Heater Monitor begins after the ignition has been turned OFF and the O2 sensors have cooled. The PCM sends a 5 volt bias to the oxygen sensor every 1.6 seconds. The PCM keeps it biased for 35 ms each time. As the sensor cools down, the resistance increases and the PCM reads the increase in voltage. Once voltage has increased to a predetermined amount, higher than when the test started, the oxygen sensor is cool enough to test heater operation. When the oxygen sensor is cool enough, the PCM energizes the ASD relay. Voltage to the O2 sensor begins to increase the temperature. As the sensor temperature increases, the internal resistance decreases. The PCM continues biasing the 5 volt signal to the sensor. Each time the signal is biased, the PCM reads a voltage decrease. When the PCM detects a voltage decrease of a predetermined value for several biased pulses, the test passes. The heater elements are tested each time the engine is turned OFF if all the enabling conditions are met. If the monitor fails, the PCM stores a maturing fault and a Freeze Frame is entered. If two consecutive tests fail, a DTC is stored. Because the ignition is OFF, the MIL is illuminated at the beginning of the next key cycle, after the 2nd failure.
I am all for good work a rounds if you know all about them however in the future if another shop works on the vehicle & are not told /forget that it has non conventional wiring they may spend a lot of time figuring what has been done.The other concern for me is the PCM has a fault now in the future my gut tells me it will fail completely so getting a known good one & programming it to me would seem to be a better route for a proper repair , still an interesting video Cheers Ivan.
Interesting repair, You should stock up on some low resistance high watt resistors for the final repair. I liked seeing a 4 cylinder turbo for a change.
Good Job Ivan ! I like your method. "Just give it what it wants" . A new computer will empty out this guys bank account. A replacement will eventually do the same thing. I hope Mopar Enginering is paying attention.
After watching this video I noticed my dog was not feeling well. So, I installed a light bulb between his ears and voila, cured!! It's a breaking, cutting edge, medical miracle. I've contacted a large university hospital to see if they will try this on patients in a blind study. I can foresee a time when we begin to see people walking around with blinking light bulbs especially at night. Twinkle, twinkle little star....oh how bright you are!!!
my stupid question and i really didnt pay close attention but are the o2's oem? shorted or wrong resistance heaters drawing too much and the computer shuts off control shutting them off if it draws too much?
Great informational video ivan, you managed to shine a light with this very common with Chrysler/dodge products. Just one question tough: are you feeding both O2 heater wires with one wire from the ASD relay ?. Thanks
The ECM, based on the previous video wiring diagram, seems to show that the HEGO heater control is high side drive (switching to +12V rail), which is very unusual. Given the age of the ECM there is probably a smart MOSFET driver IC (preamp) driving discrete power MOSFETs, with one channel each for each HEGO. If the preamp driver IC failed you would see a failure in both heater circuits with some strange partial on behavior possible (partially operating charge pump for a N-Channel MOSFET high side drive?).
An interesting solution Ivan. That bulb flickering is acting like a variable resistor. I'm not sure why it is fooling the PCM. Hope you don't get another come back with this car since I don't expect the bulb to have a very long lifetime when operated in this way.
Measure the resistance of the bulb and substitute a resistor w/ a suitable power rating? Or perhaps a correctly rated ptc would better mimick the bulb (and last longer).
Ivan, I love your videos. Can you do a tutorial on how to use the light bulb harness test? I am a diesel mechanic for over ten years and always trying to learn new ways to diag
I used to patch in the a/c pressure switches to run the high-speed fan when the pcm driver for that circuit failed. Just needed wire and a spare relay. It's been ages since I've had to do that patch, I used to do it at least twice a week
The fault could very well be a cold or broken solder contact inside the ecu. With a small load, when the power supply is through the bypass loop. It is possible for a bad contact to control a little voltage. When the heaters are powered directly to the ECU, the bad contact will no longer pass the necessary current.
Can we take a moment and sing the praises of the lowly PT Cruiser for a moment? Yes, it’s every bit the turdbubble that everyone says it is. But at the time, it was innovative and cool, and it was also cheap and very practical. So far as I know, it has no modern equivalent except maybe the Kia Soul. The PT was a happy little shitbox like the Neon before it, and as bad as it was, I kinda miss it. Not enough to buy one, but I miss it.
You gotta measure the resistance of that bulb and switch by a resistance which approximately has a greater value taking into consideration the higher resistance due to high temperature with the bulb turned on
Another PT Cruiser workaround. Our PT Cruiser had the Transmission "Limp" mode P0882. Ivan did a bypass with a relay back in June 2019 and the car has been fine ever since. We have put 45,000 miles on it since then. Ivan never gives up. Thank you.
You're lucky to live close enough to him!
I hope you tell people about him!!
Great to hear! 😊
Hi Ivan, Nice video's on the PT Cruiser. I think I can explain why it appeared to fix itself. The original failure was no drive to the O2 heaters. You diagnosed it as a bad PCM. This was obviously correct. You then supplied your own supply to the heaters and it worked but you left the original driver in the PCM connected as you did not disconnect the heater wires from the connector. In doing this, you left a 12v supply on the driver fet drain pin. The failure in the fet was most likely a short, probably between the drain to the body. (if were a failure involving the gate, it wouldn't switch. The gate is basically a capacitor) Remember, current in an IC is all about surface area of the structures. With the constant 12 volts applied to the drain, there was a current path to the short and eventually it heated enough to burn through the short. Now it will work but depending where on the drain finger the short was, the current capacity will be reduced. The lamp gave the circuit a bit extra load to get it to operate.
Thank you!!
Component knowledge helps!!
You just convinced me that you need to be a PHD in electronic engineering to work on today's vehicles, not just a good mechanic, like I have been my whole life.
Once upon a time, there was this picky PCM that fell in love with a 2A light bulb... The rest is history 🙂 Great job Ivan!
So when those codes pop up again he can just tell the next guy oh it's just a burnt out light bulb...
I can't imagine the response my mechanic would give me if I told him to check the bulb under the hood because I've got an engine light! This work around is Einstein level man!
You know, I don't think Ivan has ever asked people to subscribe!!
Put out quality consistant content, and they'll come!
Congratulations on the growth of your channel!!
you really try to save your customers money. as long as you are blessed with health you will always make a good living
Hi Ivan, electronics repair person here .......
This is actually a common fault mode, I have managed to extend the life of a few irreplaceable components that have failed in this exact same way by adding a pullup resistor (instead on your bulb) between the driver output and the positive supply rail.
As we saw in your part 1 video on the scope, the driver was actually working but weak, it was not able to drive the full 0-12v range, but when you add voltage via a current limiting resistor, you are actually reducing the amount of work that the driver has to do to drive up to the supply voltage
Very neat!
I'm a novice. I was thinking, why not use a resistor? Cheers.
Hi.i will like to thank ivan for making this very interesting video. I have another pt cruiser with the exact same problem and luckily for me I found this very useful video. But I have a question for the electronic expert of this comment : can you please explain in a little more detail on how to wire the pull-up resistor and what value of a resistor it needs ?. Thanks in advance.
@@orosa74 According to Ohm's law and that the bulb Ivan used was 2 amps, then the resistor should be 6 ohms.
Love your creativity Ivan. This fix is fairly indicative of a bad resistor or capacitor in the PCM itself. Suggest to your customer they source a good PCM when they can and be prepared to swap it down the road when you can no longer hack up a fix.
As one of your other viewers pointed out, what you actually did was supply a pull-up voltage to the output stage that is either a transistor or FET. The module required a voltage that could be modulated with the pulses you saw with the bulb brightness changing. A proper valued resistor would have accomplished the same result. Most likely there is a burnt resistor or trace within the module. This bypass fix should last until the module fails in another way. Great find and quite a creative fix.
Wow, we got enough light now to see the pulse of that car Doctor. Great fix Ivan.
That is absolutely the sickest repair I've ever seen Ivan !!! Your skills are mind-blowing
Well, that fix was illuminating!
Ten thousand comedians out of work and you're trying to be one. lol I like your thought process. 😊
@@billmonroe8826touche!! LoL 😂😆
Folgers used to be the best part if waking up. Now I need PHAD too!
Great video, Ivan. Really cool.
I've got to say you amaze me with your repairs and tenacity to get the Jobe done.
If this is not a PROPER repair, I don't know what is. No parts changed, just a solid understanding of how the car works !
it's a bodge . BUT it works , therefor it IS a repair. the next mechanic may be confused about it , but can replicate the fix if it goes wrong.
i once added a regulator to a bike , as a bodge , attached it to the crashbar , a year later bike came in ...still attached ! and working.
hack job, not a true "fix" , and a fire hazard
I have nothing different to say, from my previous video comment. The things Ivan needs to do to accommodate all his clients. Fantastic. Thanks Ivan.
All this PT turbo need is an icon on dashboard that says “PHAD MODE” and lighted with the lightbulb you installed.
This car has been officially “PHADED”!
It's invaluable when you have a total understanding of how the system works, love your work Ivan 😊
Strange issue with the driver circuit.
Was the sensors OEM 50AA and 49AA.
Seen some other video on the web were they explained that the heater element are activated fully on startup, and when the sensor have the correct temp, the PCM start pulsing the heater. Perhaps if the sensors doesnt have the right resistance on startup control the PCM disabel the heater circuit.
Looks like you had a genuine lightbulb moment!
the one thing that I remember well from Scanner Danner lectures is , that you should ALWAYS install OEM Oxy sensors on Chryslers ( the ECM is very picky about them ) - otherwise there will be problems
If you could pop open that computer and look at those drivers under a microscope or even a really good magnifying glass, you'd probably see 'tin whiskers'. The addition of the light as a current source likely vaporized them temporarily allowing the circuit to become active. They regrow/repopulate very, very quickly once they start in the first place. NASA figured out in the 60's, you must have a 60% lead 40% tin solder blend or it will grow the equivalent of metal 'stalagmites' and depending on temperature/current/humidity, etc, it happens pretty quickly. It's a phenomenon, I was introduced to in the USAF where we discovered some of our critical aviation parts were being manufactured under the new 'low lead' standard. Turns out when your power source is perfect 400hz, the 'Tin Whiskers' grow really, really fast. Working with Lockheed engineers, we quickly/quietly usurped environmentalist wackos and put a stop to it worldwide (if you fly on airplanes, you're welcome). It's a frustrating anomaly because the whiskers, being so thin will typically vaporize instantly, causing a fault, yet leave no trace unless you examine them under magnification. Excellent videos as always.
I sure wish you had a channel to share all your info. Thanks 360
@@kk-pz8gn I'm retired, I don't have all the cool tools the US tax payer provided me while on duty. That and most of what I was involved in was technically 'classified', not nearly as cool as it sounds. I can talk about the tin whiskers, that's public knowledge. If I didn't say it before, google nasa + tin whiskers, you should get a very nice technical write up from a long time ago.
@@kk-pz8gn Wow, apparently we reignited the tin-whiskers research back in the day! nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/
probably the PCM powers the heater 100% until it reaches operating temperature, then modulates in PWM to keep it at temperature. And perhaps it could be able to measure the resistance itself, or maintain a certain duty cycle calculated and established by the PCM software.
"That's unfortunate"....., but expected.....I gotta wonder if the whole problem is aftermarket o2s? Interesting 'fix'.. LOL. Welp, at least I called it on the lower control arm bushings. Thx for bringing us along on this 1 Ivan :)
Ivan nice hack thanks for throwing some light on this problem😉
Now he has flashing lights under the car when he is driving like the other hood rats.
When the bulb burns out consider replacing it with a 100 Watt 6 ohm power resistor ( 6 ohm at 12 volts for equivalence to 2 Amp bulb).
One thing to consider. Is the resistance of the O2 sensor heater circuit within spec for the coding of the PCM? I've seen where the sensor is 'functional' but outside spec for what the PCM wants. One vehicle I can think of will ONLY work correctly with an NTK or Denso O2 sensor, none of the other brands including Bosch will modulate correctly in place and throw sensor codes. That is also a Chrysler around that era.
I hope the owner will keep us posted and see if it works long therm. Lots of comments regarding burning heaters.
It will work great until the light bulb burns out 😅
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Does another possibility, I was thinking more about the resistance inside the heater
"Some voltage" really just means the PCM sees a higher resistance/lower amperage. It makes sense that if one or both drivers is broken, the circuit would be out of range of normal detected resistance. Or if the sensor heaters have slightly too low resistance compared to expected spec. Without more individual testing of the drivers it sounds like the latter may actually be the case? But if so, I would expect this "hack" to be completely fine as long as the bulb lasts.
Also I'm surprised you still used your multimeter so much (not scope) after it was obvious that the driver is PWM. Those meter readings are probably garbage 😁
This has to be your best repair/ hack by far. A wire and a light bulb required. Lol
As much as I hate PT cruisers, that was an awesome fix Ivan.
You sprinkled some magic hack dust, on that one
Hey Ivan. So from what i understand, 1 Oxy heater driver worked and 1 not. You could use a transistor with gate/control contected to working heater control and your jumped wire instaed of the bulb. The bulb solution could eventually burn the PCM control circuit after some time. We will see. But inventive solution from you anyway. good job man.
*Gets check engine light in 4 years* “oop gotta change my O2 sensor light bulb”🤣
It saved the customer money, he is satisfied with the repair and everyone is happy
Kudos to you for being stubborn and trying multiple things even with the customer there watching. Sometimes you just need time to think and ponder and test. Takes a strong character to do that with an audience.
I dont care if im not first im sitting in the garden with a fresh cup of tea and watching Ivan ...
Too hot in my garden :-) I'm in the kitchen with a fresh cup of tea and watching Ivan...
Thanks to eastern time zone, i'm watching it before he posted it with my cup-o-joe.
I don't care that I'm not first because i'm not 12. I am enjoying a nice keto breakfast out by the pool though. 😊
I’m sitting in my truck eating an excellent bacon egg and cheese bagel with coffee and watching Ivan, a great way to start my Sunday morning.
@@stevewhite3424while im inside clapping your wifes buttcheeks
So the drivers came back to life when you added resistance to the heater circuit? I wonder if the (aftermarket?) o2 sensor heaters were drawing too much current, and the drivers were shutting off for self protection? It would be interesting to see the amperage draw of those 02 heaters compared to a new set from the dealership.
On my 2006 Daihatsu Terios, the front (upper) oxygen sensor's heating circuit failed after 14 years and of course the check engine light came on. As we have to pay so much for OEM equipment in South Africa I replaced the sensor with one costing a sixth the price. It worked fine but after a year the fuel consumption took a hike . All the scans seemed normal - STFT and LTFT, sensor voltage etc . By this time Daihatsu had pulled out of the country and no OEM was available. As it was just the heater of the original sensor that was faulty I reasoned that I could bull dust the ECU into thinking the heater was working. Also that particular sensor is situated just after the exhaust manifold and I reasoned the temperature of the exhaust gases should heat up and stay hot just as if the heater were present. So ,I simply put a half watt resistance across the pair of heater wires and tried it out. To my surprise it worked with fuel consumption immediately back to its original mpg; L/100km. Subsequently I found an OEM sensor in Latvia of all places and have purchased it "just in case". But after 18 months the "modified" version is still working just fine. My only observation is that the rule of thumb that OEM is best practise is the cheapest and best way to go.....I did toy with using a light globe instead of a resistance, but opted for the resistance as we do a lot of dirt road driving in our game reserves on corrugated roads where things like light globes get shaken and ones teeth start to rattle.
Unless the bulb is somehow providing a variable resistance, I think I would have measured the resistance across the bulb and wired in an appropriate resistor.
Excellent how you narrowed down the location of the problem.
19:13 You've done it again Ivan... You're the real life Macgyver of UA-cam in auto repairs... Great Vid. Like the rest of your channel. Keep up the good work and out of the question ideas on troubleshooting... Cheers...
This is by far the wildest hack I've seen, especially from you, Ivan.
That i nuts. Why the heck would Chrysler have that insane coding in the PCM? Good on you Ivan, for staying on this tricky diag and repair.
PC Cruiser needs the crusher just from its appearance…Haha😏
The computer knows... and will not reveal the mystery. They're nice- but also a pain. Just had a Dell computer lock up (no detachable battery), so it sat and produced heat until the battery went dead. Great design, guyzz.
Thanks Ivan. Does beg the question what you would say if this ‘fix’ turned up at your place as the ‘next guy’. Nice work-around but struggle to see this as a ‘thing of beauty’.
I agree, it depends on the customer obviously. If he wants the PCM swap or further diagnosis I´m sure Ivan would be more than happy to help.
Everyone’s giving him crap for it 😂😂😂. Sorry Ivan! We all do these fixes every now and then. At least he’s being honest about it 😂
If a car came to me with this mod installed, I would thing the installer was a freaking genius 😂
@@bashdavid9223 It's funny how you of all people aren't "BASHing" him. 😆😆
Hint: Your username.
Took a bit of tweaking but it looks like it’s happy. Just shows to go ya that getting off the beaten path can be a fun journey. Another successful bypass surgery. Nice work Ivan. 🆒👍👍🇺🇸
Ok I have to watch this several times to understand but making this kind of tests helps to see how the computer manages the oxygen sensor information and the strategies to reach a stoichiometric state. Very interesting... 👍
Ivan apparently the driver output is a bridge. It has an active pull up and pull down. I think the active pull up transistor is blown but the pull down is ok. Your light bulb is a passive pull up. The pull up needs quite a lot of current so the passive resistance must be pretty low resistance. The pull down can still pull it low but will draw quite a lot of current. Over time the pull down might die from overheating. Depends on if the duty cycle has to go to zero for extended periods and how beefy that pull down transistor is
Cobbling at its finest. You blow my mind Ivan
Dood you hearts my heart. Ivan for what you had you did a great job. My comment added to someone else has nothing to do with my respect for the way you do things. Again sry for any disrespect. Sincerely. Chester,
Great videos! I’m a shade tree mechanic and I learn so much from your videos! Only question I had was why you didn’t add the socket for the light bulb to the circuit so the owner could easily change his own bulbs, if needed.
now have a passive and active CEL spare bulb in glove box mandatory the bulb in effect is a variable resistor love it I do use switched fuses to eliminate parasitic draws, put the car to sleep with a switch
Some times you just have to do a "Walk Around". Years ago We had a glitch in the computer that I was working on. If we put a scope on it the problem went away. Logistically we knew the problem but could not see it it. The capacity of the scope probe fixed the problem. The solution was to add a capacitor to the system on all systems. No problem after that.
The lightbulb fixed the problem.
This deserves an "ATTABOY"!!
Ivan, you are a genius!!!👍🏻👍🏻
I really think that you and Eric from south main auto should do couple more videos together like you guys have in the past that would be some awesome videos buddy and thank you for all your hard work that you put into thousands of videos god bless and be safe 😊
Wow another great who done it video diagnosis. These are alway great knowledgeable videos.
The answer for this working is most likely because the drivers used a pull up resistor that opened. Your lamp replaces that resistor. Would be easy to draw out on paper.
thanks for sharing I'm sure the customer is happy great video
May be, that the driver for positive supply of heater burned. But when running pwm mode after heating, then pulses with negative (ground) are working fine and thats why its blinking the bulb. Then the bulb is in fact overload protection for negative PCM pulses. Very nice.
Nice work around Ivan! Sylvania sells a LED Load Resistor 6 ohm. She might be a good fit
I had a clink in the left rear for more than a year. When I had some work done at two different shops for other things they looked for the clink and found nothing.
Then one day I was checking the air in the spare tire. And found that the jack wrenches were just laying there loose. Wrapped them in a towel and my clink was gone. I must remember to check my spare tire air more often than 1-1/2 years.
It doesn’t matter the brand Ivan does his best to fix / Repair / rebuild / Russian hack. & send them back into the wild …Ivan’s approach & diagnostic skills are top notch
about the only thing I haven't seen him fix yet is a paraglider motor. LOL
@@robertsmith2956actually I did fix a paraglider motor while in Florida in 2020...it's just a basic 2 stroke weed trimmer haha 😅
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics i saw you fix the cars in the parking lot.
I wouldn’t consider these alternative repairs to be “hack” jobs.
They always say “There is a light at the end of all dark tunnels” 🤣. This tunnel was dark and Ivan lit the way 😉🤩. Happy cruising
IVAN THE MAGICIAN! PCM is "smart" but Ivan is smarter!! 😂😂
I would've either got another PCM or got that one refurbished because what's to say that the fault won't come back ?
It's happened more than once when you've repaired it that way,it might be o.k. to do it on your own car but not on a customers car !
He did inform the owner it needs a pcm .
Ivans creativity to the rescue i guess 😅
I can't wait for another video from another shop with this dame car, like your friends at South Main, when Eric finds a blinking light bulb , he will be sure to bleep out some words !! LOL !
Bringing it to AutoZone. Tell them you need an O2 heater bulb!
$700 PCM or... lightbulb under the hood? 🤣 I would do the same thing. Great job, Ivan!
do it right or dont do it
This kind of Issues makes you learn more because you don't feel satisfied of what you did even when most people think is awesome you know something here it doesn't make sense completely, I would like you were replace the PCM because is a cheap computer on ebay, good deals less than $200, change the VIN with your scanner which will make your IMMO be ok, software can be updated with chrysler J2534 software legacy, there is a lot of options you have to this and a lot of videos on UA-cam that can help to do this and makes you be in a next level of Diag, but unfortunately no matter how many NEW PCMs, OEM HO2S or Harnesses you replaced, DTCs WILL come back for sure, and that tells us that sometimes we ignore so many things; and that's ok, we are humans, we don't know everything, I THINK this is more of a problem where manufacturers doesn't give you enough information about how much current (amps) or resistance PCM expects to see when Heater is Cold and after EVERY second ckt is monitored because resistance chances every second with the temperature on heaters, that's why PCM modulates signal and you saw Bulbs flickering which proves driver is in GOOD CONDITION in this PCM but not happy or calibrated with your actual HO2S Heater resistance even if it were OE parts, troubleshooting chart from Chrysler doesn't give you those details to diagnose what algorithm results could set DTCs when ignition is turn on or while running, but for sure there's an algorithm that calculates that and depending on the software level is going better or more restrictive but who knows exactly what changes are from one update to next one and so on unless with a tuning software you can see those differences, when we humans don't understand something is more easily just justify us saying is not worth the vehicke because total value of this car is very little or other things like that, but for Diagnosticians what really important here should be, if we CANNOT understand technology in a Chrysler 2003 how we can stand up with a 2024 or 2030 and so on later in the future, so WE end up patching or modifying things what we not fully understand from Engineers and finding excuses (I Know they are humans that's why Versions of software exist to patch errors), but for us is like We are always smarter than who develop and not always the case if we don't think like Engineers think, we need to try to think like Engineers so next time find a better solution or conclusion instead of stop thinking as we solve the problem. I know Ivan is very smart that's why I see his videos but when I like someone, I want them to improve themselves so I know this going to make him elevate his level of Diag in electronics even better which involves not only replacing USED modules but cloning, configuring (coding) if necessary not in this case or flashing, etc. Because so many Diags end up having to replace modules and no always is module itself, probably 80% of modules replaced is misdiagnosed because of lack of knowledge of software operations and lack of information from manufacturers, another consideration is humans develops software and algorithm and no always are calibrated to CORRECT parts AGING, that's why newer vehicles HAVE Parts Replacements as Special Functions on their scanners.
Another thing to consider even with OE Parts, there's what is called Parts CONSOLIDATION if you flash last software for that 2003 probably that Software Level was let's say 2010 or less, if after 7 years Emission Parts Don't have Warranty anymore so Chrysler don't care this car anymore to have software updates, probably for 3 to 5 years they care if they lose money for warranty after that only if it's dangerous situation where the vehicle can get on fire probably be the case if not we are alone.
A solution that people with this problem which in my Opinion I CONSIDER is a problem of software in the algorithm because at least should have HO2S Replacement Function and a better calculation (check DRBIII because I don't remember at this time if this 2003 have it but I don't think so) but try doing this to get rid of this DTCs.
First Clear DTCs KOEO and after overnight at morning disconnect PCM connector only for HO2S and apply B+ with Ammeter for 60 seconds for both Heaters then quickly put that connector back to PCM and start it up right away in less than A MINUTE and PCM won't set DTCs because their resistance are higher because they are warmed up, then drive it for about 20 minutes and park it for 5 minutes or more usually a few seconds after shutting off engine heater monitor will run and PCM will not set DTCs, algorithm will see as Everything OK
I Would like to comment more on this because know there's a lot to say in this particular case which I like Ivan have but I liked to participate and give my opinion and I hope people may have another alternative like this one with $0 in expenses only jumping heaters as I said having this algorithm watching heaters current within specs, and when monitor wil run again hopefully algorithm makes a better calculation about what current to expect (If I remember correctly 3 years ago when I had this exact problem with 05 PT Cruiser 2.4T BIN 5 Emission Calibration, with Pico or any other scope you'll see current is monitored when you turn Ignition on, there is a very first short pulse when algorithm evaluates circuit for a few milliseconds and probably every time PCM monitor runs) because this is a common problem for people who still have PT Cruisers and/or Chrysler with software of this era I hope we can learn more from this. Thank you Ivan for you effort to be better technician helping people every day. 15:32
Ivan appears to me that the O2 sensors installed are drawing too much current. The PCM is programmed to current limit or shut itself down when excess current is drawn in the heater circuit. AKA short circuit protection. By installing the bulb you are limiting the current that the PCM has to deliver.
I don't think that is the case since the PCM doesn't even TRY to turn on the heaters on start up to measure the current... 🤔
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I do not recall seeing you measure the initial pulse duration to the heaters. If over current the PCM will measure and turn off the current to the heaters in a few clock pulses of the PCM CPU probably a few usec. (If my assumption is correct!?)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics from service info pcm checks heater circuits with engine off after a drive.
The Oxygen Sensor Heater Monitor begins after the ignition has been turned OFF and the O2 sensors have cooled. The PCM sends a 5 volt bias to the oxygen sensor every 1.6 seconds. The PCM keeps it biased for 35 ms each time. As the sensor cools down, the resistance increases and the PCM reads the increase in voltage. Once voltage has increased to a predetermined amount, higher than when the test started, the oxygen sensor is cool enough to test heater operation.
When the oxygen sensor is cool enough, the PCM energizes the ASD relay. Voltage to the O2 sensor begins to increase the temperature. As the sensor temperature increases, the internal resistance decreases. The PCM continues biasing the 5 volt signal to the sensor. Each time the signal is biased, the PCM reads a voltage decrease. When the PCM detects a voltage decrease of a predetermined value for several biased pulses, the test passes.
The heater elements are tested each time the engine is turned OFF if all the enabling conditions are met. If the monitor fails, the PCM stores a maturing fault and a Freeze Frame is entered. If two consecutive tests fail, a DTC is stored. Because the ignition is OFF, the MIL is illuminated at the beginning of the next key cycle, after the 2nd failure.
@@Mrjm5411 See Part 1...that's the first thing I tested with the scope!
The suspension rattle is most likely the upper front strut mounting plate worn out.
I am all for good work a rounds if you know all about them however in the future if another shop works on the vehicle & are not told /forget that it has non conventional wiring they may spend a lot of time figuring what has been done.The other concern for me is the PCM has a fault now in the future my gut tells me it will fail completely so getting a known good one & programming it to me would seem to be a better route for a proper repair , still an interesting video Cheers Ivan.
Reminds me of the "Ford has a Better Idea" ads in the 60's when they used a light bulb as the O in Ford. 💡
(yeah, I'm old)
I have the license plate
Interesting repair, You should stock up on some low resistance high watt resistors for the final repair. I liked seeing a 4 cylinder turbo for a change.
Good Job Ivan ! I like your method. "Just give it what it wants" . A new computer will empty out this guys bank account. A replacement will eventually do the same thing. I hope Mopar Enginering is paying attention.
Those PT Turbos are also notorious for blowing the head gasket, so I can see a Part 3 before too long.
Better thank factory! LOL! I thought I recognized that cordless soldering iron!
After watching this video I noticed my dog was not feeling well. So, I installed a light bulb between his ears and voila, cured!! It's a breaking, cutting edge, medical miracle. I've contacted a large university hospital to see if they will try this on patients in a blind study. I can foresee a time when we begin to see people walking around with blinking light bulbs especially at night. Twinkle, twinkle little star....oh how bright you are!!!
I see a 2A test light as possibly being a cure for cancer.
my stupid question and i really didnt pay close attention but are the o2's oem? shorted or wrong resistance heaters drawing too much and the computer shuts off control shutting them off if it draws too much?
Control arm bushing are the most common problem on the PT Loser and Neon…
Right but what happened to MOOG's Quality I thought they were the Problem solvers, Looks like that Quality took a healthy 💩 as well.
This is a genius way to cheat the PCM u r a genius….. love ur work.
Great informational video ivan, you managed to shine a light with this very common with Chrysler/dodge products. Just one question tough: are you feeding both O2 heater wires with one wire from the ASD relay ?. Thanks
Great video, Ivan
The ECM, based on the previous video wiring diagram, seems to show that the HEGO heater control is high side drive (switching to +12V rail), which is very unusual. Given the age of the ECM there is probably a smart MOSFET driver IC (preamp) driving discrete power MOSFETs, with one channel each for each HEGO. If the preamp driver IC failed you would see a failure in both heater circuits with some strange partial on behavior possible (partially operating charge pump for a N-Channel MOSFET high side drive?).
Ivan, we need a t-shirt with check boxes and your more common Russian Hack's, and add this one to it!!
An interesting solution Ivan. That bulb flickering is acting like a variable resistor. I'm not sure why it is fooling the PCM. Hope you don't get another come back with this car since I don't expect the bulb to have a very long lifetime when operated in this way.
You may measure the total resistance with bulbs in series with the heaters to know the difference
Incandescent bulb’s resistance changes nonlinearly and rapidly as a function on the. Current.
Non-OEM O2 sensor with different resistance in the heater windings?
Measure the resistance of the bulb and substitute a resistor w/ a suitable power rating? Or perhaps a correctly rated ptc would better mimick the bulb (and last longer).
The clunking is the strut mounts up top
Driver might have an overcurrent strategy that is sensor specific? Your reverse engine ering skills are revealing and economical!!!
So, how much would it cost to fix the pcm correctly, and what if the bulb goes fails?
Just replace the bulb lol
Ivan, I love your videos. Can you do a tutorial on how to use the light bulb harness test? I am a diesel mechanic for over ten years and always trying to learn new ways to diag
I used to patch in the a/c pressure switches to run the high-speed fan when the pcm driver for that circuit failed. Just needed wire and a spare relay. It's been ages since I've had to do that patch, I used to do it at least twice a week
Would have been nice to know the cost of a new computer
The fault could very well be a cold or broken solder contact inside the ecu. With a small load, when the power supply is through the bypass loop. It is possible for a bad contact to control a little voltage.
When the heaters are powered directly to the ECU, the bad contact will no longer pass the necessary current.
Can we take a moment and sing the praises of the lowly PT Cruiser for a moment? Yes, it’s every bit the turdbubble that everyone says it is. But at the time, it was innovative and cool, and it was also cheap and very practical. So far as I know, it has no modern equivalent except maybe the Kia Soul. The PT was a happy little shitbox like the Neon before it, and as bad as it was, I kinda miss it. Not enough to buy one, but I miss it.
Would be interesting if you could measure the resistance on a OEM o2 and compare it to the ones on the car. Great video for sure!
You gotta measure the resistance of that bulb and switch by a resistance which approximately has a greater value taking into consideration the higher resistance due to high temperature with the bulb turned on