Taemin GUILTY MV Explained (ENG 한글자막 中字幕) Breakdown Analysis Reaction Lyrics Translation 태민
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- A music producer explains Taemin's message "hidden" inside his sexy but also dark, powerful, unsettling Guilty MV. 한국어 자막 추가됐어!
@tesla-v3j : 당신의 최근 움직임을 축하합니다. 저는 이 매우 중요한 주제에 대해 당신만을 위한 또 다른 더 심층적인 비디오를 만들 예정입니다. 지금은 제가 당신과 당신의 개인 관리 팀을 위해 정성껏 한국어로 번역한 영어 가사 번역 개요 비디오를 즐겨주시기 바랍니다. 앞으로 좋은 한 주 되세요!
이 비디오 분석은 영어를 읽는 국제 팬들을 위해 제작되었으며, 공식 영어 가사 자막이 서사를 크게 희석시키고 왜곡시켜 이 시청각 작품의 진정한 예술적 가치를 크게 손상시켰기 때문에 필요했습니다. 나는 CJK 독자들을 위해 한국어와 중국어 자막을 추가했으며, 특히 Abraxas, Demian bird egg, Hermann Hesse 및 Georges Bataille Eroticism 해석과 관련된 부분들에 대해 추가했습니다.
I got off my cynical ass and made this video because Taemin needs to be understood as he intended. You can call this a reaction video - that reacts to the misconceptions of Taemin MV reactors.
The MV deeply stirred everyone. Even the most jaded reactors were awed, mouths agape, wordless, deeply moved, a few even teared without knowing why. Next we got thousands of speculations about what the video means, some on point, some baseless. We all noticed Taemin has very specific things to say, but the MV is also super cryptic.
The infamous SM English lyrics Triple Whammy issue didn't help. At least half - and I'm still understating it, of Taemin's highly specific message was missing. As a result, even the obvious narrative layer got the typical full-of-holes Swiss cheese interpretations - what more the deeper, subversive layer?
This is nothing new: ADVICE/ IDEA lyrics translation were jokes - and GUILTY is many times as complex! At the rate of the rapid spread of misinterpretations based on missing information on top of mistranslation, how are people going to understand the artist? And if most reactors seem confounded (or troubled) without any means to understand their visceral reactions, how will that help the song's growth?
How does one explain to non-bilinguals that mistranslatons plus social media's myth-reinforcing dynamics could cause a Taemin music video to start losing momentum at 10M views?
Sigh. So I acted.
Anyway, just so that we don't lose sight of the big picture... This is not about a specific dark organization. The "System" that Taemin (and SHINee) survived is not a monolith, not a few organizations, not even a secret, not even unique to the country. It has gone global. In plain sight. No conspiracy theory needed. As we speak, Taemin is up against a militant streaming industrial complex. That is the reality he lives in. He has to be careful. Powerful players and their highly invested enablers would want to bury/ snub/ smear Taemin's stealthy protest art had he made it too overt.
Please share this video to dispel myths, counter retaliatory attacks, boost GUILTY views and start constructive discussions.
Let's justify Taemin. Get him to higher ground.
(I'm pleasantly surprised by the warm thoughtful responses. Thank you. I didn't plan on making a hobby channel but I think it's time Taemin and SHINee people go on the offense. I mean, if not now, when? I got some unconventional ideas in mind, so watch this space!)
#Taemin #Taemin_New_Chapter #Taeminshinee #TaeminGUILTY #taeminreaction #SHINee #태민
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Found myself tearing up when the video reached the section that mentioned child exploitation and minors made to pit against each other self harm - Taemin made art but most people will only notice his abs
And when that exploited child grew up and reclaimed his body and soul, they find other ways to own his body and soul.
The exploiters are getting worse: not only they're now pitting 4th gen against a 2nd gen Ace, they openly appropriated Taemin's newborn baby title song to glorify his "replacements".
Of course. Taemin is so authentic, so appropriate-able. Even Guilty's demo lyricist went on Tiktok to appropriate Taemin's Guilty song meaning and authorship. Her cred robbery allowed anti-fans to claim "Taemin doesn't deserve to be credited in whole Guilty cover performances because a white woman wrote the song for him it's just about her cheating boyfriend not a deep song hahaha Guilty is not his song".
Yes. Not only they ate Taemin's newborn against his will, after they're fed and full, they denied Taemin painstakingly created HIS masterpiece, and cheapened his song meaning.
Every week another unprofessional "pro songwriter" appropriates Taemin's song for clout - ALWAYS erasing every trace of Taemin's authenticity, soul, song meaning, and credit.
This is what we're dealing with - people who rub his ART on their own faces are also actively destroying his art and eating his soul.
And you wonder why Taemin still can't take flight to do his world tour no matter how hard he tries.
@@FactualUnicorn So true. Taemin is exceptionally HIGH CONTENT and therefore highly appropriate-able. Taemin has broken out of the egg but he isn't safe or free to fly at all. He is still recovering from being pecked alive by hungry vultures. Key has also been under non-stop witch hunts. SHINee members have all been very quiet for a month.
@@FactualUnicorn And one wonders why live-streams-happy Taemin has been extremely quiet and invisible for a month.
@@marriedtotheshineemusicWhatever Lee Taemin has bottled up is finally coming out in the open. Of course a class act like Taemin would reveal everything that's wrong with that industry, the way light contrasts darkness. More than ever, he will need real professionals to get an English hit or two, then he could help take SHINee global. I'm so glad he's fighting for his true worth.
Even without knowledge of the deeper narrative, most people noted Taemin is taking admirable artistic risks with GUILTY, at a time when mega stars choose the conforming path. It turns out, Taemin is even more courageous than we thought - he is taking both creative AND commercial risks. This obviously means a lot to him. Let's justify Taemin.
True. And even more when all eyes were on him for his cb. People have been attacking him nonstop since he come back.
It's crazy what he's been up against and is still up against, crazy. What's even crazier to me is ,, the victim is not playing a victim but heroically fighting back, while the cowards and corporate tools are lashing out at him! And whatever they attack him with are always always a projection!
(Edited Jan 2024) We live in unpredictable times. K-Pop groups are venturing into the West/ global mainstream markets. English songs are the new normal. High value but underexposed artists like Taemin and his IP are being plundered and repurposed. Anything can happen in any direction. But don't lose track of what we want: SHINee World Tours 2024-2034.
First, build an exit bridge, help SHINee team help them cross the language divide ua-cam.com/video/qvPN3Ikp7Nk/v-deo.html
연말 GUILTY 공연과 관련된 논란에 대응하여, 많은 업계 리더들이 이 태민 노래의 실제 의미를 전혀 이해하지 못하는 것 같습니다(또는 단순히 신경 쓰지 않는 것 같습니다). 저는 이 시스템의 광범위한 맹점을 해결하기 위해 2024년 새해 첫날 이 설명에 한국어 자막을 추가했습니다.
In response to 2023 year end controversy regarding GUILTY performance, it seems many industry leaders do not understand (or simply do not care about) the actual meaning of this Taemin song. I have added Korean subtitles to this explainer on 2024 new year day to address this system wide blind spot.
@@agatho_loves_music Everything you highlighted from the systemic corruption to his justified fury is now playing out! Taemin just dumped SM! Amazing!
When I first saw this MV I got tears and I wished him for happiness😫
This masterpiece continues to haunt me, I just watched two very glib reactor guys went crazy over Guilty, someone left a link to this video and now I'm here watching this amazing mind-blowing masterpiece of mv analysis. I'm still reeling, all I can say is you're literally waking the talk, you totally justified Taemin, thank you, sincerely.
What I find most amazing about the artist known as Lee Taemin is how strong he truly is. Under that naturally sweet naughty cherubic facade is a stoic, intelligent fighter with iron will, as your video revealed. Life and that damn child devouring Machine dealt him so many unfair burdens, especially after 2017. Yet, no self-pity, just quietly doing his own thing in his own way, in any way he can. Even his pure rage is beautifully delivered in the gentlest way possible. Today I gained a whole other level of respect for the Lee Taemin. Thank you for taking the time to string together complicated yet logical threads. Power to you!
Thank you for noticing. I feel it's time to spotlight Taemin's underestimated depth of suffering, intelligence, and resolve.❤🔥
This is why Shawols were so upset that Taemin was not given the opportunity to perform this masterpiece himself at the big end of year award shows. Instead they have given it to other groups to cover, which saddened him because he really wanted to show a new side to this performance himself. With what you have uncovered, I wonder if this is SM's way of punishing him for speaking out.
@@sunydaze100 You could be right about the end of year Guilty serial robbery, I just read multiple discussions to get a better idea. Well. Not one but three MAJOR PLATFORM denials of his name/cred. Can it be any louder? Big Hit definitely hit big, no shame, just raw power flexing. Looks like our video author Agatho has been prophetic in the statement from 5:28 "It's a feat to tuck a personal protest against systemic child exploitation inside a sexy player trope, to bring eyeballs to a toxic system that, while not monolithic, is entrenched, powerful, and pervasive. The fact that he needed to be this meticulous says something". Taemin challenged oppressive forces knowing he WILL faces repercussions.
What really stings to me: that beneficiary of his work didn't even honor him before during the SERIAL robberies, Taemin needed to gently poke him! No shame! I can't know how Taemin feels exactly, but if someone used and abused my creative work without my fore knowledge I'd be more than hurt, I'd be seething. F THIS AGEIST BS.
@@TheLegendOfLegends The bottom-line: SHINee remains vital and money-makers in spite of their owners. Taemin and his IP are delicious but under-exposed on the global stage, powerful gluttons will drool and plunder, because they can. Let's get Taemin to higher ground ua-cam.com/video/qvPN3Ikp7Nk/v-deo.html
@@sunydaze100 I can't be 100% certain if that whole thing was a punishment or just a particularly ruthless, desperate, unsubtle IP grab. I will say this though: the cover performances had to be decided and planned weeks prior, to enable dance practices and vocal recordings. The ramification of that.
At the very least, it didn't add to Taemin's brand reputation.
When I made this explainer 2 months ago, I've stressed that we need to do more than just singing praises at him, we need to get him out to higher ground - proactively, through strategic, concrete, actionable plan ua-cam.com/video/qvPN3Ikp7Nk/v-deo.html
After watching the video more times I started to feel a feeling of 'Guilt'. Because from minute 4:15 to 4:25 I see again what it means to be a Kpop Idol and one as young as Taemin was when he debuted: 'the weight of the world: doing his job well', 'Robbed selfhood: not being able to have a normal childhood due to the expectations and demands of work', 'forced isolation: by restricting contact with other adolescents of the same age, not allowing them to use cell phones, not having contact with their family', 'debt slave labor: when making contracts with companies that put minors in unfair contracts', 'minors against minors: when demanding competition between young idols', 'training in self-harm and triggered by survivor guilt: when they are exposed to channels that caused damage to their health, and they survive what other idols suffer.' He was the youngest SM idol a long time ago, and he went through so much... criticism from fans, from the media, from his coaches, from his company, hateful words from haters, harassment, bad eating habits, bad sleeping habits , anxiety, feelings of inadequacy.... Sorry Taemin. I think you have healed a lot from what you have been through, I hope you are happy now and always.
That beautiful bridge, where the most unserious reactor would fall silent to either appreciate the emotion in the music or gawk at the soulfulness of his singing, just to be jolted by the psychological violence of the visual disconnect, of a "past" scene where every point converged as The Weight he carried all these years.
Every point is mere tip of an iceberg. You got most of that covered. Taemin's truth is heard by those who want to hear his truth. And that's satisfying to me.
Trained self-harming is the industry default. On its own it is damaging enough. And 1st 2nd gen idols got it far worse.
Survivor's guilt - the average persons suffer survivor's guilt after losing someone dear to self-harm. SHINee members had to deal with that guilt inside while carrying other people's guilt.
Trained self-harming could, and have, cost lives.
Trained self-harming + survivor's guilt, are even heavier burden.
I thank this excellent explainer video author for synthesizing the above two very difficult ideas in one sentence in the eureka moment.
Taemin's delivery has been delivered, at least in this corner of the internet.
The most painful thing for writer-type singers (every SHINee member basically) is to not be heard, or to be willfully misheard.
@@agatho_loves_music Hybe realized they can't buy soul from US songwriters. So they grab SM's soul. First casualty: Taemin's Guilty.
What's next? N-High-Fern new single! English cover of Sherlock!
15 years of soul. Not in their control.
SHINee needs some seriously innovative strategy.
@@marriedtotheshineemusic Lots of stuff happened in the last few days. Taemin's threat to quit SM would surely give the other SHINee members better negotiating power.
HYBE is hungry for SM. People think they want Aespa Riize. Nah. Bang PD wants SM's soul. For all their idol-songwriter hype, HYBE music is the opposite of soul. Which SM act has the most soul?
I’m reminded of HyunA’s BABE era seeing this analysis. She and Taemin have a lot in common; despite being very young, they were sexualized and exploited for money instead of protected like children should be.
I’m glad that the artists of the 2nd gen are beginning to tell their stories, and feel both grateful and sorry to them since I grew up watching and admiring them. But now, us older generation fans and the idols themselves can only look on in horror as we see the industry repeat the same cycle over and over, with even more young talents. The average group nowadays debuts with only one or two “adults” (and they’re only adults by law..) and the rest of the members will be minors.
I heard that Taemin was being stopped from performing this song at a recent year end event, and instead a rookie girl group performed the song. I can only imagine how many execs, directors, and producers would feel miffed by his open rejection of one of Korea’s most profitable industries- and that they may try to squash him down and punish him again.
So ultimately, I guess Taemin made them show their true guilty faces.
It’s absolutely vile that they refused to let Taemin perform at year end stages despite him voicing his desire to perform. Twitter was all over the place at that time. Honestly Taemin has become way too large for kpop. He needs a bigger stage and more mature audience #RespectTaemin
@@proudpotterfan Like clockworks, the adversarial forces that this video author has outlined--- systemic bullying by big K media corporate powers, appropriation of his authentic art and soul, thumb-downing Taemin's worth --- are all playing out. Taemin Minho Onew have been too quiet for a month, Key has been under non-stop slander attacks. Kinda obvious to say, but if Taemin ain't safe then the other three are not safe...
@@marriedtotheshineemusic You're damn right, if even Ace of Ace Taem is being squeezed and misused like expired goods, OnKeyMin are not safe. Everything this video author has highlighted, macro micro past or present, the shameless corporate thuggery, his 1000% warranted fury, is now playing out before our eyes. Taemin is pulling his weight. Finally! Bloody damn time!
@@proudpotterfan You're damn right Taemin has become way too large for Kpop that the child groomers need to minimize him to maximize their own bank accounts.
I know his career has been a torment and a triumph, especially as he was in the industry during his childhood. It is a troubling song/video to watch. I wonder how deep his wounds go. But when I see the "Guilty Challenge" videos, I feel better about it all. After the challengers dance with him, he plays around, grinning and letting them pick him up and carry him off. He still knows how to have fun. His past hasn't ruined his present.
I think this video shows that he claimed his trauma, he has control of it now. When you compare it to say criminal and advice, I would say guilty is more healing on the whole
These interesting comments should be posted under the MV itself. Most people just watch this MV and judge it in a very superficial way, regardless of whether they are enthusiastic comments or criticisms. But Taemin ability to evoke deep and sometimes controversial emotions is just another level.
I will try to get more people to watch this...
The comments under the MVs of big artists almost always suck. If you want to read meaningful thoughts you have to go to the comment section under reaction videos and stuff like that...that's how I found the link to THIS video
@@nomi_inspi So true, a random tweet led me here and wow this video comment is probably the most meaningful Shawol exchange on youtube or anywhere I'm so moved and energized... we really need to actively support videos like this to raise shawol fandom fighting spirit, also to recruit english speaking babywols for our new era...
Very empathetic commentary. Parts I find most troubling, the moment of betrayal 2:26, the sneaky criminal voice from 3:08 to the gun choreo parts, which I didn't notice until now. I know it's a representation but it's very specific? Taemin went through a lot, and survived a lot, and now he wants to vent in a beautiful way, and my god he did it I don't know he did it but he did. I'm glad the focus is on Taemin's story telling skill and his immense willpower. Thank you for your rigorous effort!
i watched the mv like a dozen time but still i totally missed the gun choreo part until this explainer video, that choreo was super specific... taemin has things to say...
Este video es increible y esta altamente invisibilizado por el algoritmo. Literalmente los ultimos 3 meses mi cuenta ha estado pidiendo solo Taemin y Shinee al algoritmo y ni una sola vez recomendo este video. Solo lo encontre porque alguien menciono tu canal en un comentario de una reaccion a Guilty (de calidad bastante cuestionable por cierto, como la mayoria). Espero mas de tus analisis. Muchas gracias. Lo he compartido en los grupos de SHinee y Taemin.
Thanks for your kind feedback. Indeed, social media algorithms float established short attention span content channels to the top. The global environment is never friendly to high value content creators like Taemin and SHINee. Meaningful works rely on true music fans like you to be seen and heard. So thank you for your help!
I've just found your video and I regret the fact that I've only seen it now, back when Guilty was being promoted I actually didn't feel like watching the MV and just saw compilations of his dance going viral, watching your video makes my heart hurt as a shawol and I'm so glad he's out of SM now, thank you for your efforts to convey his meaning ♡
wow thank you for this. Now I feel like I can listen to his songs in a way that's closer to how I was supposed to hear them
Wow, this was an amazing explanation. It really helps, especially as someone still in the early stages of learning Korean. Taemin's music has this layer of emotion to it that I can't explain, I can't exactly understand it yet and that's one of the reasons I strive to learn Korean, because nuance is so important. You've made me fall deeper in love with this song and Taemin as as artist, thank you!
Your video is absolutely amazing it needs more likes, you have have done taemin artistry justice!!!
I just discovered this song and was very confused as to its meaning - about first half seemed very dark and hinting that Taemin is in the role of the victim, but the drastic changes with bright colors in 2nd half threw off and so I started searching up meanings and lyrics. Thank you very much for the video, I will have to rewatch it to pick up all the nuances but the main theme is much more understandable for me as a basic western person :D
Good to know it helped your understanding. The drastic changes are meaningful indeed.
Methinks Taemin's survival guilt is the most obvious yet most overlooked SHINee world perspective last 5 years, hey, even today. Thanks for highlighting that.
I'm totally not surprised at the level of Taemin's despair, it's been obvious to me since b4 military and I'm so happy he has transformed his blood sweat n tears to righteous fire 🥲🐣🐥 💗🔥
.. super super grateful for Agatho's Sherlockwol detective work ..... I'm so grateful that Taemin's survivor's guilt is now in the open, the beautiful pain that some reactors noticed, now proven in this explainer. Thing is, Taemin very very very specifically sang a song about similar issue in late 2018 in Under My Skin but most people were too distracted by their own PTSD to notice his 100X bigger PTSD, he was being strong for everyone even when he was on the edge, also battling his own survivor's guilt for being alive and thriving. Why, because the whole freaking world was dumping their guilt on OKMT, remember? Remember those purity cops guilting scolding erasing OKMT to get clicks? Imagine living like that? Like, trying to dance and sing under the insane weight of everybody's guilt? Some Shawols noticed UMS lyrics were Taemin's attempt to say difficult stuff, some of us tried to translate it but of cos it was a word salad which aint our fault but the fault of the uptight dinosaur music publisher UMJ!
So for the next 4 years Under My Skin MV got misinterpreted as 'Taemin is feeling sorry for himself about dark evil things he did' !! Sounds familiar?? lol people loooovvve to project either dark sins or weakness on Taemin so he got fed up and made it his brand! It's only this year the meaning of UMS was revealed in a professional adaptation but did anyone notice or even care? Nope but oh he certainly got lots of scoldings from purity cops about promoting this and that evil sin because how dare he survived 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 and thrive!??This comeback Taemin fired Under My Skin Criminal Want Advice Famous Idea in two songs, all at once, suddenly those who never cared what Taemin had to say become overnight Taemin mind-reading experts!
Sorry I ramble on but I'm good and great and grateful for the occasional Sherlockwols who actually care bout Taemin with facts and actions, so Agatho I want to say thank you thank you thank you 💎💎💎💎💎💗💗💗💗💗🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟‼‼
Can you share the link to the under my skin English translation?
I think we really do not know the whole story and it may not matter ultimately. In art it is important the listener experience. We do not have the keys to his lock. 😮
@@proudpotterfan just copy paste this into search box, make sure to switch on the Eng caption for the actual translation
Taemin Under My Skin adaptation English demo
@@killie343 lol preaching "song meaning don't matter" and "Taemin's message to fans don't matter"? Koreaboo much? Wanting to hear the artist clearly is "wanting the key his drawer lock" lmao seriously? Feel free to play psychic but speak for yourself. Some of us actually want to live in reality.
@@killie343 Who is asking for the whole story? Why are you framing sincere music fans who cares about lyrical art as evil people? You work for Universal Music Japan?
Bravo for a thorough nuanced and objective take on this intricate work. Unexpected takeaways for me were... he stretched his growing wings before the fights against the oppressors in the two chorus. The second time, as in the second chapter of his music life, he succeeded. Another takeaway, was "loving you is crime but I do criminal things to you before you know what hit you" right before very specific self-harm training. It could be the player Taem whining about peddling drugs or dating ban. But it could equally be the child got ambushed by assaults, of himself or other minors he know. Either way, the first MV chorus part ended in some form of violent silencing threats. That's all.
Thanks again for this presentation, it's a lot to chew on. I'll be back.
After a second watch I appreciate your factual yet open analysis even more. Your approach allows for further interpretations, very cool... Most analysis I've read tend to be absolutist, cling too hard to selective lyrical texts to go on about their personal crusades. I don't get why people still trust kpop lyrics, but anyway I just watched Guilty BTS production video, I got a few more takeaways about Taemin's intentions
- Taemin is purposely playing down the dark underlayer when speaking to the entertainment press (DUH). Emphasis on PLAYING.
- Taemin and MV director Byul Yun have an organic collab style. They are not being random.
- They're not bombarding us with multiple social issues, though it may look that way. There is a dominant arc, with two distinct character arcs, confirmed by your breakdown
- The two character arcs (the tormented player vs the child slave captive) allow for the song to be easier to digest by general public
- many songs are designed with dual meanings. Doing MV songs that way is technically harder (my field so I know)
- the two character arcs abruptly merged at the slow down bridge. The reactors who hang on to the melodramic tormented Player arc get thrown off. Emo cliff. They didn't see it coming.
- what Taemin and Byul want to achieve: an ambush.
- this Taemin project is both personal and social. Subtle, also lethal. Classic Taemin.
The whole thing was beautifully executed. Except? Misleading Kpop English lyrics and MV subtitles (This causes major energy leak to Guilty MV, not what we want guys)
The psychological violence Taemin experienced along with Onew Key Minho, and what they know about the true culprits that hurt Jonghyun, we will never truly grasp. But Taemin certainly didn't make it like he's the only one suffering. He just wanted to show us the nature of the beast. To me, that is the ultimate takeaway of this underappreciated work.
Thank you again for making this convo possible.
@@naturalbornfoodie Thanks for noting the openness of my approach...
Your abrupt emotional cliff analogy is spot on. It's always nice to see Taemin's narrative-driven directing talent discussed in non-hyperbolic ways. Indeed, poor English lyrics affect song viewership in the markets they are running after. I've decided to make a video on K-Pop's endemic English lyrics issues.
@@agatho_loves_music That's great, it's the topic of the times.
I've uploaded the English lyrics problems and solutions video. Come join the convo!
@@agatho_loves_music Great thanks
This is INCREDIBLE, I wish many many people can see this to know Taemin’s genius. I agree with everything you said and felt blown away by some of the corrected translations you offered. So much was lost in the mv translation 😭
Right?? Some mistranslated bits were just too hardcore even for a toxic fxxkboy, I mean like 'mess u up then throw it all away' is like bad translation and kindergarten lyrics 2 in 1.... then yeah I used u hurt u but hey 'its ALL FOR YOU' ... that is just too toxic even for a mindfxxk and makes no sense in the flow which is what gets me the most, that the lyrics fails break Taemin's story flow
And there were so many typos in that MV too, who are these clowns in charge of lyrics translations?
the ending genuinely sent chills down my spine, and summed up the purpose of why taemin created guilty so perfectly.
Just shared this on Twitter - hope this brings more discussion to the MV.
Also Taemin has been mentioning how he regrets debating so early multiple times these days (don’t think he mentioned it so frequently in the past), sounds intentional to me. Taemin really floors me sometimes, everything he says has meaning behind it and is intentionally placed. He doesn’t BS except when he’s doing fan service.
IKR? Taemin is super eloquent and specific, I get riled up when some people act like he randomly let his video director or lyricist frame his story, like huh? AFTER Criminal Idea Advice he still needs to prove he is super specific about his creative intentions, seriously?
This video is phenomenal! You actually confirmed a lot of my analysis (down to the fact that I read that “young Taemin” character as a girl from the beginning and no one else was seeing it…)
Thank you so much for making it. I felt a huge disconnect from the English lyrics we had been been given and it’s been reframed in a much more powerful and poignant way. I’m SO PROUD of Taemin for getting his subversive story out there. Any way I’ve analyzed it over the last few days, I was shocked at how real and deep and dangerous it is.
He’s been talking about “the taboo” with Erotism for a while now, and he really has touched on it deeper than most will ever understand. I’m glad he had an amazing team to support him and make this beautiful, cathartic art.
You're welcome. It is indeed a cathartic work, and definitely a catharsis for those who get the true size of his suffering, and know first hand the resolve one needs to overcome that level of suffering.
As to the Eroticism 'taboo" he touched upon, and taking into account French to English to Korean adaptation, in the social context of Bataille's 1957 France versus Taemin's 2023 Korea, that's stuff for long essays. I just take pleasure in Taemin's continued seduction games, the way he trolls the System with his recurring incorrect sex death social transgression tropes, that fuels collective imagination, stimulates conversations... for the world is richer for it!❤🔥
@@agatho_loves_musicDid you see Bataille's book called Guilty. I checked it out from the library but haven't had time to read it since I'm studying for exams now. He's an interesting thinker. As is Taemin, so deep. I'm glad his hyungs and family get him.
@@4Peace. I prefer to keep interpretation open for Taemin fans but I can offer you this: The chorus choreo is Taemin's Bataille in action.
LOL Taemin trying out sexy zombie concept lol that took me out! Thank you for all the missing info. SM translations did it again, the video plot and the lyrics didn't click at certain points which confused the crap outta me, but now the story is consistent and makes sense, thank you so much!
thank you for this in-depth analysis and explanation! i would recommend that you should do more with his other songs and even of shinee.
I want to, I do. I'm extremely frustrated by K-Pop English lyrics triple whammy, as you could probably tell by now lol... I have seriously thought hard about making bespoke lyrics videos of selected SHINee songs including solos from all 5 members, to ensure SHINee reactors get the best audio, visual, and lyrics quality. However, I feel like
1. That won't solve official MV and performance video lyrics issues (no subtitles or unreliable subtitles).
2. I'm just putting out fires that are blindly started in Seoul. They don't even know what they're doing to us, or themselves!
Ideally, there should be professionally done lyrics subtitles on every official MV, performance video, and on the rest of the b-sides. Ideally, and logically.
If I find the time I'll make a lyrics problem explainer that could affect real change...
@@agatho_loves_music There are at least three issues with the lyrics. First is translation. I want a literal translation. Second is meaning. I want to keep the meaning but not the literal language. It's like translating poetry. Not easy. Then there's the singability. I want a translation I can sing. And that's what I'm working on in my neck of the woods. I don't speak Korean but I understand lyrics and poetry because I write and sing. The best translation, without at least an attempt at following the metrics of the original is going to disconnect people from the experience.
So instead of putting out the fire of English/lyrics problems, I made a video to help SHINee global managers prevent fires. Then the RespectTaemin hashtag happened. Powerful top dogs plunder Taemin's delicious work, K-Pop socmed mass-cheapened his soul, logical progression. Am I surprised? Sigh. If only I could help SHINee's global team unclog certain bottlenecks in their pipeline, we will spend more time discussing SHINee world tour venues instead of fighting for Taemin's title song cred.
I've gone as far as I can, my action plan is not as sexy as a truck, but it has practical value, so someone with far sight please bring it to Taemin/manager's attention ua-cam.com/video/qvPN3Ikp7Nk/v-deo.html
Definitely explains why people got the conversion therapy vibes off this since that operates under similar mechanics. Really fantastic in-depth analysis! You're right - the official English translation loses quite a bit in context and left me a little confused, but this helps pull it all together.
Thank you for the deep dive of the meaning behind the MV. The SM lyrics didn’t do justice at all. Your interpretation made so much sense. I truly admire Taemin’s artistry. In this western washed KPop industry, Taemin follow his own unique path, creates art with each comeback.
Thank you for taking the time to analyze this masterpiece of a music video. It's so thought provoking and disturbing while being ... art. Just beautiful, dynamic, pure art from a master like Taemin.
Loved everything about this video, thank you. Could you make another analysis from his others MVs.♥♥♥
I would love to, but my time-consuming works will be buried by official lyrics deferring reaction videos, and devalued by credit-poaching channels. Even with the good feedback about this explainer video, misinformation about Guilty and erasure of Taemin's credibility are still spreading as we speak. It'll only make sense to spend time on such high effort videos with official blessings.❤🔥
Taemin is heard loud and clear! A presentation as passionate and sincere as the discussed work and artist! Thank you for doing Taemin justice!
Thisis a few months old video now - but would you consider perhaps posting the lyrics as translated by you? I would love to have that. Thank you in advance if you do!
I'm genuinely heartened by your appreciation. As I told a dozen or so others who are still asking me for my lyrics translations, I would love to rewrite every Taemin lyrics translation IF I could, IF the value I supposedly add will lead to Taemin's songs and singing voice reaching another one million people. But the reality is... his lyrics translations are sinking his works right this moment.
What good is my lyrics translations to Taemin's survival if they sit on my videos hosted on my quiet little new channel, when his Eternal lyrics translations are actively setting fire to his songs' potential in the west?
How will my "lyrics fix" counter the self-sabotaging lyrics that are spreading like wildfire right this moment?
Protecting the value of his musical works is something true Taemin admirers care about. I'm glad more and more Taemin music lovers are talking to each other. Here's a longer rant about this matter. Cheers...
ua-cam.com/channels/g9UFanyN464S65HVe51BJA.htmlcommunity
Thank you very much for your great work. Taemin's works deserves to be analyzed in such a thorough manner and respect. Special thanks to all the comments. I read it with great interest.
Thanks for this! I think the problem is there are multiple legitimate readings of this song and MV. It does seem like Bataille’s work inspires the exploration that Taemin is doing of ‘what attracts people’ and when ‘the unacceptable becomes acceptable.’ The sensuality of the ‘innocent’ Taemin seems to be what he’s alluding to there, which I assume relates to how he was treated as a young idol. And he mentioned that growing up as an idol is like being in the Truman show in a recent interview. But it also does seem like he feels somewhat complicit in this - in the recent MV behind, he is saying “I love my fans” as they film the scene by the water. So I’m sure there is supposed to be a genuine internal conflict between being abused by a system but also buying into the allure of fame and love from fans…which mirrors the toxic love theme that the lyrics represent, and that he has used to describe this song at award show performances.
At the same time, the middle part of the MV seems to have explicit reference to his time in the military (the gun, and throwing the Molotov cocktail at the target). And in the recent behind the scenes video, he seems to reference a specific “shocking incident” - maybe SA? 😢 as being a turning point halfway through. There is certainly violent and suggestive imagery that punctuates the middle of the video.
Simultaneously, he breaks free from the stifling institution and is owning his sexual/gender identity fully in the latter half of the film, but the trauma remains, scarring him. I think the progression of the MV and the changes in choreography and vocal technique throughout all point to shifting narrative perspectives and messages.
I’d be interested in your thoughts on the behind the scenes video, especially bc I assume some things are lost in translation there too!
The point about him suffering under the public eye but still buying into the relationship with fans, feeding into it, enjoying it, and the mental disconnect that must cause for him is so important!
On one hand he has talked explicitly and in concealed ways about the tremendous hit his mental health has taken due to debuting as a child (like with the Truman comment recently). On the other hand Taemin is the king of delululand and parasocial relationships and seems to enjoy himself a great deal whenever he tells shawols to not look at other men etc. 😅 (he is a gremlin).
I think there is quite a lot in here that could be interpreted as being about that ambivalence.
You're welcome! (edit to add to the answer to your question)
I think it's pretty clear, Taemin has integrated his so-called complicity by Want era, and is not "guilting" his fans for desiring him in any form. He did say in NME interview that it's a toxic love that hurts another, but it's not from his own experience. Some may take his words at face value some may think he said that for domestic consumption...
I'm not precluding other darker angles. That said, the gun choreo or "coerced execution" don't confirm actual ammo or military, just like the chainsaw in Criminal was not about tree pruning. I underline the "institution" as a metaphor not specific organization/s, because I have my own take what the wider larger systemic issue is which is not something we can solve as outsiders, and also it is not Taemin's job to openly confront any Goliath. Minds can wander to dark places, but there are enough solid nuggets excavated for us to process and interpret. I'm also a realist, and prefer to keep open discussions to issues that we can actually change however minor...
Artistically, I also tend not to interpret Taemin's dramatic symbolic objects as isolated statements but specific directorial decisions that DEFER to the lyrics, which are effectively scripts, also the most neglected element in K-pop music analysis. Lyrics interpretation is as much a science as it is an intuitive art, which, brings us back to the fundamental issue of translations...
You asked if I picked up anything from the behind the scenes video: the two prominent girls in the MV story were confirmed to be two separate girls (Taemin shook their hands), lots of women in decision making position, methodical pro execution to script, glimpses of Taemin steering the wheel in his gentle but firm manner.... Positive overall. Translations wise, lately SM content translations have improved a great deal, so unless we need to defend the SHINee ship from tabloid attacks, I won't sweat the small errors. Cheers!
One of several things I'd like to say to Taemin. Liar, liar, pants on fire. And it's so easy for him to do it well. But I suspect there is no way I would believe it doesn't ever bother him. The character he plays may be Abraxas. But humans are so much more complicated than Gods.
I also think it's high time we ask SM for English lyrics that won't drag down Taemin's fabulous world-class songs, like how cheap crass lyrics killed that superstar soloist's 1D song!
Thanks for exposing his far more meaningful intentions! Beautifully explained! Yes let's justify Taemin! His silent endurance is admirable but I also worry because we know SHINee boys can sometimes be too uncomplaining and dignified for their own good? Super relieved Taemin is showing some righteous rage and owning his power! Flex it Taemin, flex it!
thank you for this, definitely gave a better idea of it all. I wish SM would prioritize having accurate translations for the content they produce... their art and creative dept is off the charts, it's sad to think their efforts are not communicated well when small changes can make a big difference.
I almost wonder if it was intentional to package it all up in a nice bow for the Western audience. Let it be about an unhealthy relationship in a pat, palatable fashion. We’d never know the difference except the question of “well, this doesn’t quite mesh with the MV. Huh.”
@@thespianoge it definitely might be one of the reasons. Perhaps also to lessen any potential controversy in the making if Taemin's risk taking has a potential in their eyes of culturally going over badly..? Or something. Though I'd think if Taemin was as brazen in the rap lines as covered in this vid, it may have gone over even better than it did as is, lol.
While I'm wishing, I still want official english subs for 'Move' lol, talk about a missed opportunity
The discrepancy of SM art versus SM English has gone from social media jokes to a real global marketing issue that could cost Taemin dearly. If SM could fix this Achilles heel, SHINee and Taemin's gold catalogue will enter global platinum stage. But who's gonna tell them?
@@thespianoge To me, it's more likely that the "sexy bad boy" wrapping is for the domestic audience.. I watch K reviewers too, mostly superficial musings about decadent aesthetic blah blah angles. It's us i-fans and the few western reactors who caught the vibe of the real story package but got stuck in confusion thanks to brain-hurting SM lyrics subtitles... . This is why we need to ask for proper translations or proofreaders! And now SM is going nuts with full English songs we need to ask for English lyricists that don't kill Taemin's songs like how they killed that u-know-who superstar's 1D song! We need to ask SM or we will never receive?!
@@agatho_loves_music It may actually be better for fans to attempt to try to tell Taemin, instead of SM lol. Shinee members have shown they are able to make changes to improve things if they know about it.
Nice video. I'm encouraged to see more TAEMIN fans talking about the artist and bringing light to the amazing work. This beautiful soul of Seoul has always done thought provoking music and performances, and I am glad this is being recognized more.
I just watched this MV recently for the first time, and the lyrics definitely taken me aback when watching. The directing itself certainly felt vulnerable in a way that the lyrics almost didn't fit or allude to. While the lyrics were pretty bold in their imagery, the Taemin I was seeing in the MV certainly felt like a victim of sorts. Especially with the younger portrayal it was giving off. I then rewatched it a few more times, and then watched some others react to it to see if they had any more poignant thoughts about it. The few I've watched as of now don't seem to catch on to this angle, but then I saw a comment mention your video, so I was quick to look it up! This definitely helped add a whole 'nother layer especially with the teaser/trailer clips that I haven't seen before [since I am not a Shinee or Taemin fan lol]
I ended up reading a reddit post about it too, called "A Panorama Analysis of Taemin’s 4th Mini Album 'Guilty' - Every Aspect of Guilty" which really delved into it as well! I don't have much to say that others haven't, but yeah, my original obsession and confusion with this song was warranted because it has SO MUCH DEPTH. I don't know, I just really love this MV especially because of the fragile topic it covers, one that I'm already invested in. It's not my first rodeo with "Damian" because - as a BTS fan - Blood Sweat & Tears had me renting the book from the library years ago. I even have had a quote from it on my phone background since, lol. I'm just glad to see it used so earnestly, the coming of age genre can be so messy. Especially KNOWING that Taemin himself had a very rough coming of age, being an idol of an early age. Gahhh I just really love the song atm!!!! Thank you for this video :]
Saw the video 5min ago and the moment i saw the conflict within the abuse this became a personal hymn, but i wondered about him. I can't respect him enough, i found myself and new courage thanks to this strong man. Thanks for the analysis 🙇🏻♀️
this is such a beautiful video!! oh my god you explained it so beautifully I love you for this
Excellent deep dive findings! Taemin is under-credited for a lot of things. Love seeing his conceptualizing talent discussed in this professional manner!
Also want to bust a Guilty lyricist FAKE NEWS. The real lyricist is Park Taewon, not a white blonde woman who went on bird app to claim she inspired Taemin's Guilty song with her one lyric word 'guilty'. OMG the conceit 🤪
Yes she did write some cheated gf lines in a failed pitch version of the song, that's what got her a mention in Guilty's final 4 pax songwriter credits. Taemin took only the music of the song, gave his own personal narrative concept to lyricist Park Taewon, and constructed a whole other cinematic piece that has nothing to do with whatever Miss Conceit wrote. But yeah trust a mediocre westerner to steal and erase the creative vision of two Asian artists to flatter herself!
Thank you for saying it! She is trying so hard to make someone else's story about herself it was evident as soon as she decided to make more than one video about Guilty.
@@inalusa9011 Yes. She's literally appropriating Taemin's authorship of the entire Guilty project, canceling Taemin's deep personal narrative meaning while inserting her own trite narrative. Ignorant Tiktok and Twitter crowd ran with her self aggrandizement ploy... so now everyone thinks Taemin's song is written by a woman about her cheater ex. This pisses me off so much!
@@inalusa9011 What? Taemin is being eaten by konglish nightmare on one end and eaten by frauds on the western end... wtf
Fantastic and deep breakdown, thank you for sharing. Let's do him justice, respect the artist Taemin 💙
wow this is amazing!!!
‼️This is so good!‼️
I don't have a lot of time right now, but I will be back later with a longer comment because I have THOUGHTS!
Soooo, here I go:
First of all, thank you for streamlining a lot of the theories and for clearing up confusion around the lyrics! That definitely was the biggest point of disconnect for me, not quite knowing how the mv and lyrics are meant to flow together.
Your take here about it being primarily about child exploitation in the industry and breaking free from it is certainly the most coherent and likely one, but a lot of the other theories (military, conversion therapy) might not be totally accurate but share the gist of this theory as well. Even if people didn't pick up on the very obvious criticism of the idol industry, they at least understood that institutionalisation, brain washing and changing of a person's identity are bad, all of which I would argue are core themes of the idol theory as well.
What I'm meaning to say here is that even if a lot of people didn't quite get the full picture, Taemin and the team absolutely succeeded in communicating the central themes of this comeback (even if people only got it through the vibes).
My first reaction to the mv was also a "Fuck, this is bleak and visceral, what did that boy go through?". This whole comeback (down to the packaging, which I will comment on a bit later) is such a powerful reclaiming of agency, of strength and of freedom.
I feel like there is also a lot in there about Taemins journey with his own gender- the themes of liberation, of reclaiming your agency, of being controlled and indoctrinated during the trailer, certainly mirror Taemins very public exploration of his gender identity. From being feminized in an infantilizing yet often sexually predatory way during his youth to trying to rebel by adopting a hyper masculine persona (that being quite the paradox anyway as upholding patriarchal standards like that is something that actually perfectly ALIGNES with the mainstream - but in his case was used as rebellion) to proudly reclaiming his femininity, using it as a source of power and strength as well as sexual liberation (his comebacks started to get progressively more spicy the more he leant into femininity). Taemin has had quite the journey and it simultaneously makes me incredibly sad (his past) and incredibly proud of the steely, undeterred, steadfast strength and belief in himself that underlies his current relationship with his gender. He quite literally and proudly said this was a 'genderless' comeback and that he has a 'genderless side' during his Suchwita episode. I don't intend to label him in any way through my words, from all we have seen he doesn't struggle with being called a guy and it is in no way my place to speculate about his exact gender identity. But he gains strength through his nonconformity and his work is definitely queer in theme- even though he himself could very well not be.
I don't think it's a coincidence that Abraxas-Taemin - which is when he first starts rebelling in the video- is wearing a denim skirt, just as I don't think it's a coincidence that the final, most empowered chorus of advice features the infamous crop top sports bra look.
I feel like Taemins liberation as an artist is inextricably linked to his liberation from societies bullshit - including the gender binary bullshit.
About the teaser photos, the photo book and the album packaging:
First of all, he really managed to piss of all the right people. From the absolutely asinine plagiarism accusations to the general discomfort with the sexual nature of the photos to the bullshit "sexualising minors"- yapping, he really held up a mirror to everyone who needed it.
I've seen a lot of people talk about Taemin deliberately turning himself from a sexual object into a sexual subject in the photos, and it ties in so beautifully with the story of the mv that I am just in awe of his creative team on this.
It is SO interesting that people latched onto the innocent school uniform photos as the most sexual ones and absolutely proved Taemin right in calling out his sexualisation as a minor.
People seem really uncomfortable with the fact that this 30 year old man is deliberately and knowingly sexualising himself. All while looking directly at the audience, challenging them, saying "You find me desirable, don't you? I know you do. I'm fine with it, I'm placing myself here for your viewing pleasure. I see the way you are looking at me now - I also see the way you were looking at me when I was a child. Does it make you uncomfortable that I know? That I suffered because of it? I'm a sexual adult now, but I used to be a child. Do you feel guilty?"
It is such a beautiful commentary on puritanical ideology. The way society is absolutely horny but also horrified and ashamed at people giving themselves - knowingly and consentingly - over to sexual pleasure, to the horny gaze of the world. Reveling in it.
The fact that the album comes in a shoe box with a secret compartment with a peephole (there is actually a photo of Taemins eye placed directly under the hole, as if he's spying on you) is so fucking genius. There is no better commentary on voyeurism, on shame, on keeping your most intimate desires hidden under the bed in a shoebox. It could be interpreted as a wholesome thing (keeping photos of your boyfriend under your bed as jerk off- material) - it could also be incredibly sinister (How did you obtain those photos? Were they taken with consent?). There are two photos of Taemin in the same position - what changes is the position of the photographer as well as Taemins gaze. In the first one, the photo is taken through a window by a person outside while Taemin lies on his bed obliviously. In the second one, the person has stepped inside the house and is taking the photo from there - Taemin has noticed the presence of the person and is staring directly at the camera, confronting them. The implications of that!!! Unbelievable.
This whole comeback stood under the flag of calling out every one who has harmed him in his past, giving voice to his righteous anger. And then turning around and embracing himself unconditionally, celebrating his will and his creativity and his sexuality and his gender expression. Being as free as one possibly can be in the kpop industry. I'm so proud of him.
@@majaherold1325 Abraxas energy in a denim skirt and that majestic headdress in that rebellious pose against a broody sky is an art direction triumph, and a perfect statement of his androgynous adventures that you described, indeed.
@@majaherold1325 What kind of people get triggered by a "self-consciously attractive 30-year-old minor in school uniform"? Taemin has a sense of humor.
Taemin mentioned "noise marketing" in a joke during SHINee 15th anniversary live. He knows what he's doing. The team knows exactly which buttons to push. They only need to fix the English issue, Taemin and SHINee will be flying a different freer sky.
@@majaherold1325 Love your take on this, couldn't have said it better! Also, I was pissed at people being pissed about him apparently sexualizing minors - I mean, yeah, that's the point? Wasn't he one several years ago, preyed upon by people who can't keep their horrifying fantasies off kids? Goodness.
Now I'm even more disturbed by this mv. Even though it's still very haunting and captivating, truly beautiful. But the overall mood of it is so unnerving, like, it gives me real anxiety. Now I know why! But I'm glad that "the final message" of it is something like "a breakthrough". Taemin will be prevailing. It gives me hope.
Thank you very much for this video. I wish there were more videos like this.
I also tried to find meaning behind some moves. I interpreted the iconic t-shirt move as "something is going under his skin" 🤔It still kinda fits, but "stretching his wings"-move before it doesn't really connect with it... probably.. And even before it, how he holds his head. It's like he's about to wring his own neck or something. Or someone tries to do it to him (other people were holding his head in a similar way later in the mv). But maybe then he comes out victorious, huh.
There's so much to think about in this song/video/performance... But the "main message" is now very clear thanks to you.
I like this mv and song a lot, but sometimes it's hard to re-watch it.
But I liked seeing the reactors start to watch it with hype and then short after just sit quietly, unsettled. Like, even if they don't yet understand what's happening, you can just _feel_ that something is wrong or different about this mv.
Thank you once again!
I wanted to respond to your very earnest and detailed comment but rl caught up but hello! What you called "something going up to move his head from under his skin" move actually flows smoothly from "stretching his wings" move, then snaps to that "gently turning his head by the chin" move. These moves formed a deliberate series. Your musing is on point, actually.
My style is to reveal essential facts but not everything - so Taemin fans have room for musings and interpretations. Some clues for you, the series of iconic t-shirt moves ties with a specific Bataille detail that resonated with him. I do choose my footnote words very carefully...😉
I can't repeat enough, Taemin is hyper-specific and meticulous to a fault. He is also genuine, he didn't drop random European thinker names for show, he's deep, and sincere. His sincerity deserves sincere appreciation, and that's what motivated me to make this video.
I enjoy your response, do muse on, for that's the whole idea, isn't it?
I’d like to know what the connection between the series of moves! And that specific Bataille detail. I’m not as cultured as Taemin haha
@@proudpotterfan I'll come back to you on this later (need to deal with a bout of false report attacks on my other 3-week-old video that got it blocked. Who would attack a nerdy Taemin SHINee channel, sigh, later)
@@proudpotterfan In that Taemin live session where he brought up Bataille and Hwang, he explicitly mentioned the animalistic instinct that animates him, that he didn't have the words for until he read Bataille. That's why I used the words "animal instinct" fighting the captor in the first chorus screen caption. The bird just happened to be his "animal-ness". You can work it from there!
I still have to watch your analysis a couple of times to understand but I think I got a few points (bravo!). I've been thinking about (and sadly, I don't have enough people to discuss with since most are just focused on how this promotes "sexualization of minors" or whatever) how immensely underwhelming people's reaction about the whole Guilty concept/storyline and how there's not enough analysis and discussion about this since it's so beautiful, haunting, thought-provoking, triggering, and powerful. Yes, of course, we're all drawn into it for the music and aesthetics (and Taemin himself) but Taemin and his works are all just seen at a surface-level and man, what a waste! I've never seen an artist like him before and I wish people could see him more than just this dance machine that they can keep on lusting after ever since he was freaking 14-15-years old.
Unless they are into these topics, most people will not take time to try to understand obscure concepts and symbols especially if they threaten well established concepts about sexuality, love, to focus in trauma, internal conflict etc. Very few young people read books like Bataille's; they are obscure, tedious, weird and triggering. Frankly, some people make the effort just because they are interested in Taemin. The good thing is that they may remain interested from this experience.
@@lari5891 Good point, I do agree with the works that inspire his works are not often read/discovered by many.
How will people know Taemin's depth if his label don't care to show it? How many people who say they care about Taemin's depth are actively informing other Shawols about this video about Taemin's depth? Right?
@@Parrotparrotparrotdize it's fine he has a large adoring fandom (and becoming larger). This content will never be massively popular, many people just have more rigid cognitive styles and less curiosity, these are personality characteristics.
Just because Bataille has a philosophy doesn’t mean if the book influenced you that you agree with his pov. You might find a few ideas worth perusing or not. But I would hesitate to believe Taemin is a mouth (and body) piece for someone else. I know nobody suggested this but it worries me that his mentioning the book means X or Y. Nobody asked him any follow up questions, or he didn’t answer the so far as I know.
This is genius, and encapsulates what I was feeling through this comeback and the many interpretations of other shawols, and you put it together so beautifully!! Thank you for respecting Taemin’s art and sharing what he was saying to us ❤
Thank you so much. I'm finally able to understand. Some of my thoughts were validated, but I couldn't complete the puzzle. Now I'm at peace 😂 Excellent job!
I got another theory for the papers all over that road! It's Taemin's foreign language homework! OK dont kill me it's a joke his 3rd language English improvement is freaking impressive alright. The most obvious is the papers are slave contracts I think but yeah toxic gossip industry is one of his pet peeves so that is also possible! Thx for this amazing detective work I am so floored, I need to rewatch it again thanks so much!
hello, i really love your analysis of taemin's music video! i was wondering if it'd be possible to use you as a source in my senior thesis which revolves around taemin and how he uses christian imagery in his music (lyrics/choreo/but specifically music videos) to elevate himself as a transcendent genderless figure (onstage persona). your analysis really helped in shaping my ideas about his music video! 💓
Feel free to use my video as a source in your thesis!
@@agatho_loves_music thank you so much!
Oh my God, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS VIDEO!!!!
BUT BUT BUT I need this song to be about TAEMIN'S ABS!!! I need this song to be about TAEMIN'S SEX I MEAN SEXUALITY!!!!
How am I gonna HYPE my reaction channel if I have to talk about DEEP PSYCHOLOGICAL WOUNDS and like like like REAL MEANINGFUL ISSUES?? Tsk.
Just being silly! You did a fabulous job explaining this masterpiece by an underestimated master! THANK YOU
This is what i was mostly thinking after watching the teaser and then the mv but reading the lyrics threw me off a little. Thanks so much for sharing this!
Thank you Agatho very much for this. I really enjoyed it. Taemin is my ult.
Man... I got even more goosebumps watching this than the official MV! Seriously man...words have power. SHINee's songs are in another class, their songs should be marketed at max power not watered down hello?
Also just wanna add- I love the little semiotic inclusion of the man with the white suit that young Taemin clings to having the keys on his belt, a symbol of freedom and then in the scenes where Taemin has the headdress, his belt is made of keys, such a cool little nod of symbolism
I’ve been watching the theory of the MV but i couldn’t wrap my head around this particular verse. What could the meaning of the verse “that vague border between good and bad, my judgement in the final moment” allude to? I feel like even if it’s whispered it’s one of the most important parts of the song. If you could expand on that, thank you so much.
From the verse part at 2:13 he sings the part of the smug devious controller/parental figure "I seduced you with a one-time bait then took control of everything: your body and soul, it's for your own good, you're the fool. MY fool."
The "vague border" bit is the voice of child Taemin, the voice of his animalistic survival instinct, the nascent soul that vow to himself, to fight the controller's definition of "good behavior" and to one day reclaim his sovereignty.
You are correct, that dark haunting whisper of his instinctual self is one of the most important part of the song. The vocal arrangement created a high contrast: the high falsetto is the devil's snarky "you played the fool for me", layered upon the deep low voice of the captive child's suppressed rebellious spirit that resided in him. The beauty of it is, his inner authority voice that sounded dark (even demonic to some), is actually daemonic (god spirit realm). This bit also ties elegantly with his whole Eros/metamorphosis/Abraxas theme.
Can't thank you enough for this awesome video!! I think generally kpop fans are just slack abt lyrics accuracy, it gives them excuse to project anything they want. Almost like they fear the truth? I'll try my best to guide honest fans to watch your video.
This was awesome ❤
Jonghyun come to my mind 😢
Thank you for this❤
this is so interesting
seriously, thank you for this
thank you so much, i hope more people will see this
Just want to point out the genius of the double layer story structure... 2:28 bit was like wow lightbulb
Top layer you got a player Taemin fighting his sort of narcissistic inner conflict, in the under layer you got a child labor Taemin fighting sinister outer conflict. By the poignant bridge part, you realise the outer conflict is THE main story, and also a faceless monstrosity. Mind blown......
I know it's been months but if anyone's around to discuss, I'm really curious about what people think about how this song essentially potentially (likely) exposing the toxicity in the idol industry would be approved by SM? It's not directly calling out SM but also isn't it in a way? Of course among the many other companies/shows/systems that play(ed) a part in the toxicity of the industry. I would expect them to say no to protect their image, especially with all the discourse around SM's failures to protect, promote, and support their idols that have been in circulation for years. I just can't stop thinking about how they must've known the underlying message of the song/performance? But curious on others' thoughts and information I don't have.
Also curious if anyone has sources for information on Taemin's involvement in the writing/production process? I saw a comment talking about the woman who took credit for Guilty when she seemingly had no involvement past the original demo and that really Taemin and Park Taewon worked together to form the lyrics (looked like Taemin brought the ideas/story and Taewon wrote it?)? I just really want to find more info on that since I love hearing more about his direct contributions to his art since I agree, he's so under-credited in the depth of his art. (apologies if anything is misinformed I'm just going off of comments)
Also wanted to offer a takeaway I was left with about the scenes with the red lighting, high fashion outfit, in the water - it left me with this image of Taemin saying like, "look at me, this is the 'perfect' idol image you want me to portray, I can do it and do it even better than you ever expected. I'll 'play the fool for you' now and still I'll expose you under your nose." For me him being alone in those scenes supported that vs when he's in the more industrial looking scenes with the Abraxas headdress with all the dancers, also fucking iconic fashion haha but felt so much more HIM, and so much more of a feeling of control and self-expression in a more anti-idol system way, but that's just what came to me personally, by no means assuming that's the expected meaning. I have more thoughts and details/scenes that tie into that but it's a lot to explain thoroughly in a yt comment lol
Thank you for this video, big big appreciation for the time and work that went into it for us to enjoy and learn more!
The Abraxas scenes struck me as a fantasy of him, supported by fans and other freethinkers, burning down the harmful institutions. But I believe it was just a fantasy, as he’s shown walking along a road and being captured in the end. So it suggests he’s still within the same restrictive system regardless of his fantasy of setting fire to it all. That’s just my way of interpreting it though. I’d like to believe it represents liberty from oppression, but I’m not sure it’s that simple
TBH I'm sick of lazy takes on SHINee's works, I wish there are more intelligent takes like this, I wish people give SHINee's song meaning some basic respect, I wish people stop acting like the actual meaning of SHINee lyrics don't matter I wish people stop treating Taemin's MV like inkblot tests! Vented, lol❤💎❤
So people are confused because they are not as intelligent as others or are more lazy or maybe they do not own or understand the artist like others (you?)? Many artists want others to be reflected in their art. When they do not, they are more precise and unambiguous than Taemin has been. Still when there are millions of people listening diversity in interpretation is unavoidable. This is how the human mind works.
@@lari5891 Sure... I hear you. The human mind works like this...
Woman lyricist: I wrote the words Guilty and apple in Taemin's Guilty
Human mind: "Taemin's Guilty is written by her", "Taemin doesn't own the song's meaning"
Taemin: I'm being ambiguous
Human mind: "His Guilty means anything. Anyone who contradict my intelligent take is the devil"
That is why I appreciate this video author going out on a limb to allow for our own open interpretations...
@@TAEMinimini well the authors’ mind works like any other human mind, interpreting the meaning according to their own knowledge values feelings and beliefs, for example that the two people in the beginning of the video are a boy and a girl. That there is trauma and survivor guilt, etc. and that is fine. The problem is when people act as the meaning police and pretend to represent the true intent of the artist when the artist did not clarify or expect others to do so. Btw the woman did compose the song, that is why she is credited and probably paid for that.
@@lari5891 You said "The problem is when people act as the meaning police and pretend to represent the true intent of the artist"
So everyone with an interpretation is a police to you? If the video author doesn't fit with your meaning then they are "meaning police"?
And based on you willful insistence to spread that fake news "the woman composed Taemin's Guilty", you don't seem to like facts...
Oh well, I'm too lazy to debate further, so I let this Shawol present you with TAEMIN IS THE AUTHOR of Taemin's Guilty.
Copy pasted from Guilty MV commenter Factual Unicorn
........
Fact: TAEMIN MASTERMINDED GUILTY. But people keep lying to disown Taemin's ownership of GUILTY, his own story.
Legally the label owns the song, but spiritually Taemin owns the song.
GUILTY is a CREATION of the mastermind and the producer: TAEMIN.
See facts below.
Fact 1. Taemin produced this song. He CHOSE the songwriter Park Taewon.
Fact 2. Taemin is singing lyrics with HIS OWN very specific meaning.
Fact 3. He masterminded it. He CHOSE his collaborators. One hundred percent.
Fact 4. This composition, the MV, the choreo, have co-writers, co-directors, co-choreographers. These collaborators did not "create" the song. TAEMIN DID.
The MAIN Taemin's GUILTY songwriters are Taemin and lyricist Park Taewon, the MAIN Guilty composers are Jonatan Gusmark, Ludvig Evers, and the main arranger Moonshine.
Yet fake news vomiters run around claiming Kole, the English lyricist of the rejected Guilty demo, "wrote Taemin's Guilty".
LIE.
So now antifans are claiming "a white woman wrote Guilty for Taemin" so "it's not his song" so "Guilty covers don't need to credit him".
Plain BS on multiple levels!
The woman Kole who claimed she "wrote Taemin's Guilty" is just one of FIVE credited demo writers. Her English lyrics, tailored for a girl group, were about a cheating boyfriend. It was rejected. SM picked up the demo. Taemin liked the melody. Taemin conceptualized his own story for the song, picked his producers and arrangers. Taemin chose Park to write the lyrics to TAEMIN'S OWN, VERY DIFFERENT song story meaning. A few original English phrases were kept, "Guilty", "poison apple", and Taemin's deep dark haunting song meaning has zero relation to the "girl cheated by bad bf" theme!
If people don't care about the deeper meaning of this haunting song, fine, just don't DISTORT the song meaning, just don't lie about his ownership of HIS ART! Just don't pretend to care about songwriter credit when the real songwriters are never mentioned! SERIOUSLY. How fake can people be?
In Taemin's final Korean GUILTY, the credited Taewon, Gusmark, Evers, Moonshine came before her name. At the end of the day she did not write TAEMIN's Guilty story no matter how people try to spin it. Stop erasing TAEMIN + 4 MAIN GUILTY SONGWRITERS on behalf of a self-promoting minor contributor. Just STOP.
Taemin waited 2 and a half years to express his heart and soul in a title song, a haunting MV, an iconic performance. Then they appropriated his GUILTY performance with no respect no credit! He has been robbed enough! Stop spreading fake news to disown the song from Taemin. Just STOP.
Copy paste the above facts to bust this lie about Taemin's hard work!
....
As you can see... Your woman Kole DID NOT compose Taemin's Guilty as you claimed. She wrote lyrics in a 4-person written Guilty which is NOT Taemin's Guilty. That is a fact. And facts don't care about your feeling. But the internet is open to all, you are free to spread fake news about Taemin's Guilty and police everybody's meaning, be my guest.
@@TAEMinimini as I said I am fine with ANY interpretation; as I said the problem is when someone disqualifies others’ as lazy because they interpret it differently. I love Taemin and are thrilled with the songs he composes. However in this case here is a group other than Taemin that composed the melody and a lyricist that wrote lyrics about toxic love. Taemin adapted and adopted the song with his team. It is fine. He is humble enough to acknowledge it and give people credit without feeling narcissistically hurt. Then he had to also communicate so people stopped bulling young artists in his name. He knows the business and is unlikely to get traumatized for minor disappointments.
I rewatched this again. I can't get over how their cheap English cheapen classy artists and good songs. Just hire Korean international high school students to proofread ffs it's not that expensive?
Thank you for this video. Also what is the song playing in the beginning?
Not Over You from Taemin’s Guilty album-the entire album is beautiful.
@@hawkeyejane2614 Not Over You and Blue fit my taste❤
Woooooooow😭😭👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
My first reaction to GUILTY was to think “My God. What on earth happened to that boy?” Not how sexy his vulnerable attempt to self soothe was. How often does he touch his face? Is it self soothing or self harming? Or both?
I could not believe how many people said that the video was about what happened to him in the army. I’m pretty sure what happened to him then was the final straw. But it started long before, when he first stepped over that line at the audition, thinking “I’ve blown it anyway, I might as well dance.”
In hindsight, what happened to him in public before enlistment was more than enough burden for most humans. I do want to emphasize the least mentioned, non-performative, innate Taemin duality: his steely steadfastness that has always existed next to his vulnerability, from day one. That, is what that I want to justify.❤🔥
The logic of low effort reactors = bunker bed proves military camp lol, ignoring the girl in the pillow fight bedroom, and girls in school uniform scene. The amount of confident convenient projection is mind-boggling! Then again lame analysis low effort videos get more views than high effort intelligent videos! Blame the internet.
Self-soothing or self-harming is such an interesting take.
Dear Shawols. What happened to Taemin and his Guilty recently can happen again, and again, and cause him and the fandom more grief. Extraordinary situations call for extraordinary solutions. We need to go on the offense now. I'm done my part. Let's build bridges so we can meet SHINee members in person! ua-cam.com/video/qvPN3Ikp7Nk/v-deo.html
@@agatho_loves_music what do you mean we can meet them in person? This is starting to strike me as a self-interest more than anything else, I'm sorry to say.
You know what I got from this? Sexual assault in the trainee industry besides what is already here in your video. It made me a bit disturbed especially with this type of song.
SA falls under speculative area. Assaults come in many forms, prolonged psychological assaults in captivity can be devastating, especially when one is groomed to act like pain is love.
Conversion therapy???
I'm just putting facts out to stop the mistranslation problem from spinning out of control into too many directions. Everyone is free to speculate based on new unearthed information.
@@agatho_loves_music no i was just surprised that was a theory
@@riahlexington Oh yes it is a very popular theory!
I would only add that the story is less linear than it appears. There is some complicity and pleasure in being objectived and controlled, which is reflected in many sexual fantasies (handcuffs), and in Taemin's criminal (Stockholm syndrome) and Want (I want you to want me, I am your toy). So he is not only talking about pain, I would also say that the gender of the characters is irrelevant here.
The story exists in 3 very specific non-linear timelines, indeed.
In Guilty, the complicity and pleasure were not hints but are in fact what drive the seductive "Player boy", so yes. Objectification is inevitable in pop music - by whom, that's what matters.
If by relevance of gender you mean the two early-teen secret lovers and Taemin's short-haired love interest girl being styled as androgynous, yes, it was a deliberate directorial decision - to deliver the very specific point of per-puberscent children were trained to be love drug seduction experts, which I highlighted at 5:47. Gender does matter a great deal in this story world: gendered uniforms in the school uniform student timeline.
Taemin's love interest girl's entire physical appearance is hyper specific, to say: look how young she is.
Edit: the boy who begged for mercy at the feet of the adult (who is not Taemin) was a scapegoat, sacrificed as a "class lesson" in that haunting bloody climax outdoor moment.
The androgyny of preteens: people who got the children's gender mixed up shouldn't feel embarrassed, it was exactly the directors' very, very specific point.
@@agatho_loves_music Well I have the bias of being a psychologist so I am kind of forced to consider developmental phases,. I don't know if I am missing something in your interpretation for why that person is not Taemin and is a girl. I do not see clear info about that. Also I do not see him as a playboy, just as a playing the other side of feeling disempowered and guilty, that is too powerful and entitled (this reminds me of pink floyd's The Wall where the main character becomes a fascist leader -in his mind). I do not think the video is about love for another person, boy or girl; this is seldom repressed, like adult love, unless we are in Shakespearean times. Love also involves maturity and descentering from the self, which happens at the end of adolescence (hopefully) . Rather, he seems to have a narcissist focus, dealing with his ambivalence with his nascent (adult) sexuality, further confused about the cost and benefits of objectivization and sexualizationand proably feeling guilty for all of that. As I remember, there are only boys in the dorm initially, and then there is a loving situation of this androgynous person with another person who does look like a girl. The author of the song said that the lyrics were written when someone cheated on her, and that the song narrator would be the woman who her boyfriend cheated with (because women are often accused of being guilty when men cheat)
@@lari5891 The lyricist of GUILTY is not female but male (박태원 who wrote SHINee's Saellite, Key's Easy, Minho's Hearbtreak). You're probably referring to one of the 4 co-composers who co-penned the "cheated lover" demo version in 2020 for a girl group. Taemin totally refitted the song for himself in 2023.
The word guilt also has multiple connotation in English: crime guilt, sin guilt, actual conscience remorse guilt etcc. (as you would know). I try not to read 박태원 or Taemin's mind, and translate their words as authentically as possible.
And I can assure you, the short-haired girl is not a young Taemin, because she is in the outdoor river scene 0:26 (Taemin looked up and smiled at her) and drug lab queue 0:28.
I agree with your take that, essentially, the song is not about love for another person. Though Taemin did mention in NME that it's about selfish "love" that hurts another person - and that it is not his own experience. So we can at least be certain, that the selfish Player is a persona, not a Taemin guilt confession as speculated.
@@agatho_loves_music yes, thank you for that. Taemin's interviews are also confusing, I assume the same translation problem. The psychoanalytic theory that is behind Bataille's concept of erotisicm does not help much understand the idea of institutional control purity of love or a linear personal story either.
@@agatho_loves_music Thanks for busting that bird app misinfo! Guilty lyricist is Park Taewon, not a conceited westerner who cancelled Taewon and claimed Taemin's Guilty is inspired by her one English word!