Long Range Bullets (3/4) Maximize your .308 Winchester's Potential! ~ Rex Reviews
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- Опубліковано 4 сер 2024
- Is it possible for the .308 Winchester with 168 grain bullets to keep up with the .300 Winchester Magnum out to 1,500 meters? With propriety bullet design from modern manufacturers like Alco, the answer is YES. In this video, Rex does comparative analysis of various 168 grain .308 caliber long range bullets to determine the best choice for long range applications. With many .308 Winchester rifles being configured for lighter varmint hunting bullets using slow 1 in 12 inch twist rates, the heavier long range bullet choices are often limited to 168 grains and under. This has limited many rifles to shoot inside 1,000 meters for a long time. However with new technology, there are new ultra-low drag bullets in 168 grain .308 caliber which can keep up with the 190 grain Sierra Matchkings being sent from the much more powerful .300 Win Mag. Watch this video for the full details!
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All the music in this video was created by TiborasaurusRex, an unsigned artist.
Song Title: Particle Jam, She's a Minefield
Music and Lyrics by: TiborasaurusRex
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Recorded by: TiborasaurusRex - Наука та технологія
Awesome analysis, Rex, thanks!
Great video Rex keep them coming. From the UK
Very interesting! Right now Im shooting a
.308 so this information is very helpful. Thank you!
REX! God bless you brother! your channel is the best.
I'm very excited to see this video series. I just called Mr. Al today and ordered some 120 gr 6.5 bullets for my Grendel. I've known of Alco for six months or so now, and I've just been blown away by the potential of these bullets. So Rex, after your approving evaluation of the Grendel in the "best caliber for AR" video, how about a grendel build and some Alco loads for us ;).
Rex, this is my favorite channel, and you are the best at what you do. Everything you present to us is gold. I just wanted to show my appreciation. Keep up the awesome vids. thank you for sharing this info. You've got a subscriber for life.
Thanks for the appreciation, sir. If ya ever want to come out and meet us, come sign up for a class :/). Would be great to meet you. www.eventbrite.com/e/rx17-seminar-class-no-002-tickets-34842181904
Another great video Rex!
Love these videos !!!!
great video been watching your videos for years. i also grew up on ruger m77s with the tang safetys. i have a 1980 vt 308 thats my 1000yd project with a vortex viper scope on it. thx for the info sir!
Loved the quote from andre impersonating the dread pirate roberts!
The thought of these uld bullets in a “ultra magnum” like a 30-378 makes me tingle inside
God Bless you brother I would like to thank you for sharing all your hard work.
Have you done any 308 loads with the 168 alco bullets? Im trying to get some info before working up a load with this bullet
Very cool Rex. There's a ton of different flavors of the .308. The U.S.M.C. switches to either the .338 Lapua or the 50 cal when it's beyond 1,200 yards.
you da MAN REX...give yourself a pat on the back
Another great talk, Rex! Thanks!! Question....what optics were appearing on the two bolt guns you were shooting?
“Be afwaid be vewy afwaid!” 🤣👍🏽
The .308 Alco 210 gr has a BC of .813 and oal 1.542
Man. Might have to see the results out of a 1 in10 twist 18.5" medium bull barrel
I noticed on the chart that Alco's heavier grain bullets have higher BC's, how would that look on the graph against the 190 gr 300 win mag and the 168gr Alco? Would it be flatter longer or carry more energy or both?
Worth trying out
Hey Rex, What's the best barrel configuration for all around performance for a .308 in various bullet weights. I have an AR10 with a 24" 1-10 fluted bull barrel, is the weight really worth it in a weight/performance ratio?
im having trouble finding the alco rounds, anyone have a link to something very similar?
I bet Hillary was the one who gave him a thumbs down.
Hillary has taught me a lot... like the election, you at least have to have one or two thumbs down to make it appear more authentic. You don't want folks to think the system is rigged.
Saddam Hussein: 99% of the vote; the challenger: 1% - - - See, it was authentic because there was a vote for the other guy! Great system.
TiborasaurusRex : Ron Paul and I must have been the only Americans not to see Iraq as a direct threat to the security of 'Mercia... although it would make an interesting scenario for "Red Dawn."...btw... thanx for filling the old dudes cranium...
Yeah, she only shoots 175 thru a 1 in 10 twist.
Everything else is deplorable. ;)
Or Dianne FIENSTEIN.
Hey Rex, what do you make of the 175gr Sierra Tipped MatchKing (BC 0.545)?
Hey Rex was wondering if you had all that great of luck with the alco bullets and the bc that they are claiming I know he's just using a simple measurement to come up with his BC's just wondering what you thought about them
Look up the Sellier-Bellot bullet # HPC2983 It is 180gr .308 bullet with a .625 (G1) b.c
Would love to find some of these! Anyone know where to find them?
thanks for the info. What's your the on the Speer 168 gr bthp? I see that the bc advertised is also gr8
Rex- what am I missing here.... why shouldn't I be using the 155gr Alco in a 300blk set up, either for hunting or tactical purposes? Or the heavier sub rounds with a can? Am I an idiot that I'm missing something here?
Great video as always.
Have you ever tried "Perigrin " bullets?
They're from South Africa and claim to be better than "Berger" which is my preference.
Bad parts are, I can't find much info in English and they market mostly to hunters of dinosaurs and elephants. We don't have those in South Florida so we don't use many 300 grain monolithic bullets.
Thanks for any input
175gr sierra tipped matchking, pushing 2700 fps with a bc of .545. Just starting doing a load up for my Savage 10 fcp-sr 24" barrel
hey Rex...i got a question...have you ever flirted with the burris eliminator3..scope..what is your opinion on the matter...and what you think of that scope...FOR A AVERAGE SHOOTER
Wonder if they used magnesium tips instead of aluminum if they'd spark when they hit a hard target?
Hello all, Rex.
I have ww src 16,5 inch 1:10 barrel. And average speed 735m/s(with selected cartridge). So far I've been using factory cartridges and found out that 175 grain HPBT flies better than other - kind of 1.15 minute. My question is - should i try some lower weight bullets with higher velocities, or should i stay with this one and try increase speed, or just use it as it is. The sing is our local law, which even does not exist, prohibits reloading. Thanks.
If you shoot 147 grain bullets at 100-300 yards max, will it make a difference in accuracy if you have a 1/10 or 1/12 barrel?
Funny how Hornady bullets are shown at the bottom of the long range performance graph and yet, almost two tears later we see Hornady ELD bullets (168 gr, BC .523) closing the .308 performance gap without spending your kids education fund. ..not to mention you can get the Rem. 700 in .308 with the R5 barrel.
will the alco work in a semi auto? or is the bullet too long?
great video man! I just built my AR10 with a Shilen barrel, and am very impressed with it this far. What is your take on the ELD-X line from Hornady? I've thought about developing a load for it for this rifle
Kyle, I've been shooting the Amax line. I've got a box of ELDs to load. I load long, 3.875 using RL17. Magnetospeed crono speed is 2590.
hi Rex, I'm often keeping an eye out for Ammo that is a bargain to build up some stock used for hunting Sambar deer in Australia, on par with your Elk I guess, large tough game that gets up to and in excess of 300kg's (1000 pounds). There are two cartridges I'm currently struggling to learn a little more about hope you can help.. a. 308 150 gr soft nose Musgrave (possibly south African) and the older winchester silver tip Exp 150 grainers (3028?). can you tell me if either/both are good enough for large game and lastly is there an easy effective way of testing ammo ourselves ie wet newspapaer! etc short of shooting at real game? appreciate it, thanks Tony
The M1A EBR is still clinging to life with this round.
Stevo Reno 6.5 Creedmoor is trying to kill the 308.
touofthehighplains Why Springfield hasn't modified the receiver with a full interval Pic rail or flats to bolt on one like badger ordinance with say R.E.M. 700 spacing screw holes is beyond me. I know LRB makes options but Springfield is slacking imo on that front.
I have been really interested in the Alco bullets after seeing these videos. Someone did say that they were actually showing a significantly lower BC than they advertised ones. Can anyone corroborate or refute that claim?
These Alco bullets make me want to pick of a Ruger m77 RSI that's a mannlicher rifle, bed it, and do minor work on it to free float to shoot out to 1000 yards with some practice.
It would be a glorious day to see such a rifle keep up with the 5000 dollar space guns.
it's there any issues with the Alcos being mag fed?
WOW
I just looked up alco bullets BCs for my 308, if their terminal performance on critters is good I may switch
What's your opinion on 7 08 compared to 308 in about same bullet weight
I'll be trying to push my rifle farther this spring by trying the Hornady 178 Grain ELD-X bullets. Going to stick with IMR4064 as that seems to get me the best results out of my rifle, even over Varget. Can't wait.
DanQS13 how did you like the 178
Is there any factory ammunition using Alco .308 bullets?
I see in your chart it shows the 175 gr bullet being used for the 11.25 twist. My rifle is a first generation Remington 700 LTR, 20' barrel but it doesn't seem to like the 175 gr bullet(Nosler Custom Competition) though I did find a sub MOA load using that weight of bullet, over all it definitely seems to like the 168gr bullets better. I know every rifle is different and this is just my personal experience with my rifle.
Rex...question??? what would performance be shooting alco bullet out of a 300win mag...LASERS
Rex, can you please make a video shooting the Alco .308s 1k yards+ so we can shut up the naysayers? Thanx
Will the steel tip stabilize in my AR 10 308 with a 1/9 twist
You should check out the speer boat tail spire tip. The 165 grain bullet has a bc of .520. 180 grain is .545. Very inexpensive bullets!
Hey Rex, what do you think about shooting bimetal bullets out of a barrel as far as accelerated wear, cost effective medium rang rounds for practices etc.
Thanks in advance
The barrel is cheap to replace. Your ammo costs weigh more heavily on your budget than any match barrel. The biggest PITA with barrel wear is the requirement to refresh your DOPE. Most can be reused, but you still have to reconfirm it unless you are walking rounds on target with second shot corrections. First round hits are more practical and fun however.
Time to drop that IOR on the Steyr SSG P1...
Wonder how 300 win mag would preform with alco bullet
MOTOhuggy bear you would be able to shoot a Martian from the depths of the Mariana Trench
I agree
Hi there! Need your advice, for rife .308 win 1:12 , 600 mm,
What's the best twist rate for the alco 168?
What´s the shooting jacket at 00:51, please?
1:7 twist custom barrel.
Saboted 90 grain ALCO Bullets' 0.224 inch diameter projectile.
4,000 fps.
0.627 ballistic coefficient.
2,218 yards until deceleration to Mach one at standard temperature and pressure.
304% improved odds to hit at 1k yards vs M118LR.
78% of the recoil.
80% of the weight.
Swedes are getting 2/3 MOA from an AW bolt gun with a 27 inch barrel.
1,260 meters/second at the muzzle with a saboted 6 gram (92.6 grain) 0.19 caliber tungsten projectile.
That's 0.698 inches at 100 yards for a five shot group.
4,300 fps from an Ackley Improved .338 Federal saboting a 90 grain ALCO 0.224 diameter projectile from a 20 inch barrel.
3,698 ft/lbs at the muzzle.
Recoil on par with M118LR.
Muzzle energy is a match for .300 Winchester Magnum.
2,368 yards of effective range.
340% improved odds to hit at 1,000 yards vs M118LR.
Compatible with semiautomatic .308 Winchester platforms with 20 round magazines or 50 round drums.
Can sub for 253 grain .338 diameter Raufoss multipurpose projectiles at 2,500 fps out to 1 kilometer+ in a modded RFB >30 inches long, 13.2 lbs fully kitted out for CQB to 1.343 miles.
Could be useful.
Prolly should axe some SOF operators to see if that's something that they might like to enjoy the capabilities of.
#Ihaveahighschooleducation
💀♠️🎯
I've got a 308. Trying to learn more about mil radians, estimating drop and windage . only trying to get to 750 yards.
plan on running 155gr palma match bullets in my 308. .504 bc is high as hell. gonna try and push them to 2900fps...
piece of cake mate. I run.308 155 bergers in my RPA Quadlock, 1/11 twist 30 inch barrel.. NRA competition safety regs requires us to still have supersonic velocity at 1000 yards, so 3000 fps is the target speed to achieve this .My handloads run at bewtween 2960 and 2980 fps with no,i repeat NO high preasure indicators,
Dumb question but can you get lead poisoning from shooting a .308 caliber? (RP)
Good video but until B.Litz confirms the bc and optimal twist for those bullets I would not spread the "good news" just yet.
Warner flat line bullets have high bc like the 180gr 30cal that should work in a 10 twist but a 9" twist barrrel is preferable.
Hornady just released some new match bullets. The 6.5mm 147gr eldm bc is .69, and the 30cal 225gr eldm bc is .777. And since the bc is calculated with Doppler radar it must be fairly close.
By the way... 300winmag shooting 190grainers at 2,850fps must be from a 18" barrel cause its not very hard for me to get 3,100 fps from a 26" bbl.
Good vid nevertheless. Like always.
The song at 8:54 is so good 😊 🕺
hello plaese help me .What is the best caliber weapon 308win?remington 700 xcr
compact tactical or remington 700 5r or remington700 ltr or steyr mannlicher sm12 or cz550 or savage or tikka or...?(Remington 700 xcr is a tactical set for 700 or 800 meters?)
out of those you have listed the remington 700 5r is the best in reguards to aftermarket availability and set up. next i would look at savages offering, tikka's are great but no aftermarket.
i cant say anything about steyr or cz as havent heard about them or used one.
Will this work in my m1a?
I would love to see a more in depth analysis of BC vs. achievable velocity in a given cartridge. For instance in my 6.5 Creedmoor the 130 grain Berger AR hybrids seem to be a better choice over the 140 grain projectiles more commonly used. This is because the BC is close enough to the 140s that the higher velocity I can achieve makes up the difference and then some. I use the AR hybrids specifically for mag length restrictions.
Same idea as the 150 grain lehigh match solids with a bc of like .513 vs something in the 175-200 grain range with a higher bc.
there 264 offerings are impressive a 147 gr bullet with a bc of .772. dam near 338 lapua status minus the ft lbs on target.
You left the 168 Gr. A-Max out. I was expecting to see it in this video also.
the 168 amax has a BC of 0.475 so it would virtually mimic the line from the berger at 0.473
What about the 168 gr Sierra TMK?
What about the sierra match king 220grn bthp in .308?
Allen L Malsbary Jr what about it?
Rex. Huge fan. I'm a heavy bullet shooter in the 308. I think Litz would support the logic. Slower, heavier, higher BC bullets have a higher probability of hit, because of wind estimation variance vs actual drift, less elevation and goes transonic at longer ranges. My 208 Amax load out of a 1:10 @ 2590 is stable beyond my 175 TMK @2720 about 200 meters further. Heavy bullets really like RL17.
Samuel Andrews what is your barrel length on that? That seems like a really hot load for .308
Devon. It's a 26 inch shilen match select #7 (I think) quick load put the psi around 62k. I get no pressure signs using BR2 and bench rest prepared Lapua brass. I aneal using a bench source annealing machine every 3rd time. RL 17 is fantastic. I recommend, like any new load start low and work up.
***** Wow, i have a 22 Inch barrel and i push the 175 Smks at 2500 with 43.2 gr of varget and my hornady manual says that is stout. I was actually considering re-barreling to a 26" barrel but the gunsmith convinced me not to because "You get the most from 22 inches of barrel with .308". That said i am getting it re-barreled.
Ill be starting your load with a 15% reduction in powder and going up.
Thanks for that!
Devon your most welcome. One of my recipes I shoot 45 grain of varget with smk/tmk. I get 2720 form 43.2 of 8208 xbr w/175 TMK. 2nd favorite load. Check a couple of different manuals they all have slightly different max loads. My load is 45 grains of RL17, BR2, lapua brass 208 Amax. It's all about working up checking for pressure and finding the accuracy node. I'd hang on to the 22 inch. I don't remember exactly but it's ~ 10 fps per inch.
I'm a .308 man my self.. I use for wild pigs 150g seirra softpoints at 3050fps.. soon going start using heavy bullets.
Is there anywhere to get Alco ammo not just bullets, for those of us who don't reload?
Check their site, I think there might be someone loading them
Whale Noises reloading is cheap, get a single stage press with a die set.
But.... then a guy would use also bullets in the the .300, which would make it as good as the ,338lm, which would make a guy use them in his .338lm which would make it as good as the .375 which would........ do they make happen to be dabbling in light yet I have some ideas....?
Would I need a "special" seating die for loading them ALCOs?
Would be nice to have a custom cup but you can get away with standard, would be good to run them through a concentricity gauge after.
Here is the website for the proprietary bullet manufacturer! www.alcobullets.com/huber-concepts/
ya those .308 alcos are better than 300wm sieras my buddy was saying last week lol
i was like buuuulshit. now coming from the yoda himself. ima buy some
haha - its all about the pointy-ness....
would you shoot a buffalo with a 308 steel tipped bullet
That 190 gr 300 WM velocity seems really low. I get nearly 3000 fps with 68 gr of 4350 powder in my hand loads.
I shoot 150g softpoints with my .300win mag even factory loads their doing 3280fps..
Higher muzzle velocity is not your friend for ELR shooting, it's terminal velocity you want to consider. I think Rex made the comparison to throwing a ping pong ball as hard as you can to illustrate the effect.
Federal Premium 300 Win Mag Gold Medal Match long range ammunition.
2900 fps @ Muzzle
308 1-10 twist 20 in barrel, ALCO 230gr or 168gr for low elevation demographics 500-1000 yards?
And using PMAGS if it matters, thanks
So, will a 24 inch barrel with a 1-10 twist stabilize a 200 gr bullet?
TheOkWoodsman yes
I'm holding a box of 168 Berger VLD Hunting in my hands, reads as BC of .489 on the label, if you were to use the proper BC, how would it compare then, better than you have shown here.
wups, i mean .498 BC, even better
They may improved them some over the years. I think the speed also dictates the bc to some degree.
Whats the difference between the target match and ultra match?
(Alco) Target Match bullets are checked by the batch. The Ultra Match bullets are checked individually, every single bullet.... Thats why they cost considerably more.
It's unfortunate that you eliminated the ELP long-range composite projectiles, even more impressive are the ELP 'Glider' family of projectiles. Computer Aided Targeting (C.A.T.) system firing systems record long-range drop at half the ALCO. Cost per round for the 'It's Glider' is between $18.00 and $25.00 each. ELP Projectile Images can be seen on most search sights, including Google.
For anything over 600 yd with a .308, (with a 1:10 barrel), I'd load it with 190gn MatchKings over 168gn MatchKings any day. At 2500fps muzzle the 190gn is still supersonic out to around 1200yd. It's never made any sense to me why the 168gn is the default 308 load.
Greg Johnson Some of it may go back to the M14 rifle and chambering specs back in the 60s. I've heard it's harder on the op rod using heavier bullets in addition. There is also a burn speed restriction on M14 pattern rifles. Not too slow and not too fast in regard to powder.
Kick-a idea.
Question for you Rex, or anybody: in a r700 AAC SD in 308 with 20" barrel, I'm currently hand loading 178 Amaxs, with less then desirable results, would the Alco's do me better?? If so, which weight and does one get them up here in Canada?? I'm all ears and thanks eh. :) Great series..
Jump your AMAX's .025 and try running a slower powder.... I like Reloder 17 for 175's and above. I use Reloder 15 for 168's and 155's
My personal experience with the 178 AMAX in a .308 is that they do not really like to be jammed. Also, if you are not getting 2600 FPS with the 178's they tend to be less consistent. I run them at 2650 in a 24" R700 clone and the 10" steel at 1000 yards is doable when there is no wind.... It's doable in the wind as well, but things get a little tricky..
I have the same rifle. What did you mean by less then desirable result? Range /results?
Even the Alco 220-grain 30-cal pills have a BC of .630 BC (Litz). I sincerely doubt the lighter pills in other calibers are that much better than the other front-runners.
First,what is your grouping at 100 yards,if the group is 1.5 inch at 100 yards,it,s not good for me .500 to .750 is good because you shoot at long range,if you group in 2 inches dont take this bullets,take a 168 smk or a a-max and drop your deer direct in her track,you know the situations.Thank,s Rex.
I shoot hornady but it looks like im making a mistake
I having been working with the 168 Sierra TMK .535 BC. Don't see it any reviews? Getting good groups with IMR4064 in the area of 39.4gr loaded to 2.825 (.135 off the lands). They feed in my TC Venture (1/10 twist) mags. Got to get some of those silver tips, learning a lot from your channel, thanks.
hey Rex, Check out the warner tool flat line 160 gr solids. unreal.
Phil Madewell Yeah Frank Galli using 30 cal 160g solids were super sonic to 1650 with a 20" 1-10twist AI bolt over 44.8g H4895 with the 160 warners. These run at magazine length. Pretty outstanding bullets.
Our Training Schedule: www.rexdefense.com
TiborasaurusRex v
175smk will stabilize fine in a 1:12 twist. Why do you think it doesn't? I've shot out to 1600 yards with success.
Thats correct, I have had no problem shooting heavier loads out of my 1 in 12 barrel.
Yeah I've no problems with bullet stability out of my factory 12 twist using 175smks. I neck size only, and am able to get 2715 fps @ about 1500ft with 44 grains of varget. The farthest I've shot is 1277.
What!! No 175gr SMK in lineup?
240gr Alco out of a 300 Norma. G1 of .899
Holy crap.
nuh my 1903 spri gfueld becomes long range system with that.
What about a 1/10 twist 18in barrel? It’s an AR-10 btw.
168-175s will do great.
If I have a .308 semi-auto rifle that will get me to 800-1000 yards, would it be a waste to invest in a .308 bolt action? Would it be wiser to go with a .338 Lapua instead?
Seems like it's much harder to find a really high quality .308 for 1000-1200+ yards than decent .338 lapua rounds. But .338 Lapua is a lot more expensive, of course.
Could also look at a 7mm mag, a 300 win with high bc bullets, or one of the really hot 6.5 mag's.
John Johnson easy tiger... you basically just asked, "I have a Honda Civic with an automatic transmission, should I trade it in for a manual transmission model or should I buy a Corvette instead?"
HOW FAR IS THE AVERAGE SNIPER DISTANCE, I SAY 400 TO 600 METERS THAT WHAT I FOUND IN MOST SITUATIONS,SO WHAT DO YOU NEED A 300WIN MAG FOR.308 IS JUST FINE
Ive heard horrible things about ALCO bullets. Ive never used them. But several long range 7mm guys have swore them off.
Some coming apart in flight. Some keyholing. Some getting mixed boxes of steel and aluminum tips. Some saying the BC of the 7mm 205gr is greatly exaggerated....etc idk,
dont kill the messenger, just google it.
Ive some on order and will be finding out this winter. :)
i take what i hear on forums with a grain of salt
how were they?
Yeah, how were they?
Why isn't .30-06 considered more?