Why Modern Movies Suck: No Themes
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- Опубліковано 2 тра 2024
- It's not just you, movies aren't like they used to be. Today we explore why.
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Or worse. The themes are harmful. Like, “Every failure you experience is someone else’s fault. The world needs to change- because you are perfect the way you are.”
(Laughs in David Goggins)
Spoken like a true woman.
A variant of that message has been in every Disney movie since Frozen and it's probably their most harmful message as of now.
@@jeremiahnoar7504 She-Hulk, The Marvels, Barbie, Live action Mulan, etc 😂 smh
It's self-obsession at its peak. I'll never understand how anyone could be that in love with themself.
Moana's theme (you were right to want to leave your responsibilities). Cruella's (it wasn't her fault). Barbie's (men are the problem, no need to change). Strange new words (children know better than their parents, plus trans stuff). YEAH it's been a wash with horrible themes.
Completely agree about Puss in Boots : The Last Wish. When I saw it, my first thought was “This came out in 2022?????”
I think I'm going to have to buy that one. I'm shocked I haven't already. Great story, orange tabby, what am I waiting for?
@@kathleenhensley5951Did you watch it?
I remember basically telling every single person I knew and any of my coworkers "Go see this movie. It's incredible."
WAIT WTF IT IS?
I love that he used the critical drinker’s “the message” lol
Yup.
It’s just such a perfect way to some it all up. And in two words. Beautiful
Did anyone tell Critical Drinker?
@@msmaria5039hasn’t Greg been on FNT or After Hours?
“The message” has spread
If they do have ‘themes’, they are used to whack you over the head with. They don’t know how to write with subtlety
This. Hollywood hates subtlety! Star Trek is my favorite example. Star Trek has always been extremely extremely progressive. But it was also extremely extremely subtle. It knew how to push the message without pushing people away. In the past they would try more progressive things than we were ready for and when we weren't ready for them they pulled back. TNG started with men wearing mini skirts. People weren't having it so they got rid of it. They still were allowed all of their progressive ideology but they weren't beating us over the head with it. They were subtle. They introduced it to us in a palatable way. Today they just call us a bigot if we don't like their terribly written bald face propaganda.
@@MamaMOB exactly.
Exactly. The subtlety is long gone. Often I think they are so obvious now because each show or movie is a performance, not for the audience, but for the other LA residents.
Star Trek is such a great example. They envisioned a progressive future and tried to show it on screen, and didn’t have to beat up a Reagan effigy on screen to make their point. It was excellent.
I think that is a consequence of a deeper cause: they want to preach, not to entertain, and to do that you have to be blunt. Dogmas have no subtlety; there's no room for nuance, you either accept them or not (he who doesn't gathers, scatters). That's in my opinion the reason for this lack of subtlety.
They don't know how to "write", full stop.
Brandon Sanderson once said that theme is part of his rewrite process. At first, don’t think about theme, don’t look at theme, don’t talk about theme. Get the story on paper. Tell the narrative you want to tell. Once you’re done with that, look at your story and ask yourself, what is this story’s theme. There may be a couple there maybe one, it may be obvious, it may be subtle but it will probably be there. Once you know that, look at your story and figure out how to make it more about that theme. Alter characters slightly. Alter appearance. Make the story fit the theme you’ve identified and, even if it ends up being a completely different story, it will be better.
Ooh, I like that. I have a story I'm thinking of writing, but it sure does feel like themes are just sort of vague rn since I barely know how the plot and characters will build up and what will be best by the end. I think I'd rather observe the theme and make changes after the fact than lock the story in a thematic box before writing.
I agree so much!
I heard somewhere that the theme is more of a term that the audience uses than an actual writing tool . Like Brandon said, the theme isn't something you think about until after you write the first draft. It's too vague an idea until you get a solid foundation to work with.
Or maybe I'm confusing it with pacing and I'm talking out of my bum.
I wish i could sometimes save comments
Rewrite the story through the lenses of the theme
The Guardians of the Galaxy had so many themes, nothing was ever spelled out directly, but redemption, innocence, familial abuse, and eugenics are all constant.
Criminals redeeming themselves, bad friends and shitty fathers redeeming themselves, making up for mistakes.
Protecting the innocence of your childhood memories, vulnerable animals, and abused children.
The villains are all eugenicists who believe they can perfect the world, or seek some ultimate purpose to fill their emptiness.
Half the lead characters were all abused kids who instead of becoming just like what hurt them, become what the movie tells you a hero is, someone who protects the innocent from having to suffer as they did.
Not really eugenicists but I could understand where you’re coming from. They’re more like people who try to shape the world to the way they want it to be, not accepting its flaws.
The High Evolutionary interprets a piece of classical music through his worldview: “Be not as you are, but as you should be.”
This trilogy is, to this day, very underrated
I hope Marvel never ruins it before it ends
@@marcosortega3350 so...eugenicist
Aww man i love GoG :'3
@@del3496It's already done, so no need to worry 👍
The lead writers for Game of Thrones said- when explaining why they crashed Jaime's redemption arc into a ditch at 90 MPH IIRC- said "themes are for eighth-grade book reports." Considering they are saturated in the culture of modern Hollywood writers, and could be seen as perfect examples of it, this might be a really common attitude in those circles and would explain much.
Did they forget the lesson they learned while writing those 8th grade book reports? I guess they did. Maybe they need to go back to 8th grade.
Hahaha, that’s such a hilarious take from them. Forget the foundational writing skills we learned, right? Shocking, truly.
It is also the absolute opposite of the source material. Dumb and dumber indeed...
ASOIAF has several extremely clear and well expressed themes about the nature of heroism, leadership, sacrifice and power. To not pic up or care about this is genuinely unbelievable.
@@vde1846 I think you're giving the novels a bit too much credit. I love them, but their primary theme is the subversion of traditional high fantasy stories with noble princes and chosen ones saving the world and so on. They deconstruct a lot of tropes. They pose a lot of questions about the nature of power, the value of honor, the efficacy of real politik, etc. They don't offer much in the way of answers. I also would not have been surprised if he subverted his own setups with the Prince That was Promised, Jamie's redemption or any of the rest of it if he'd ever finished the books.
@@MamaMOB You're under the assumption they even did them
I think the How to Train Your Dragon movies all are underrated as far as their writing goes. The first movie in particular shows such efficiency in writing in that every line in every scene serves multiple purposes. This could be establishing a character's point in their journey, acting as a set up, working as a payoff, or advancing the plot.
Those movies are great
Underrated? They all did fairly well, IIRC.
Really, I find I am able to enjoy supposed "kids" movies so much because they tend to have a greater focus on theme than many live-actions movies that attempt to tell similar stories.
I just about screamed when I saw your comment LMFAO I 100% agree! I admire how tight knit everything is writing wise in those movies.
Dreamworks has a lot of bangers. Yes, they have a fair share of stinkers too (Boss Baby anyone?) but their best isn’t too far below Disney and Pixar’s best (though I’d still rank below their peaks) and much better than what either of those studios are doing lately.
@@LoganChristianson no, I agree with @HappySqrl - the films made bank yes, and got good reviews...but not to the degree that they deserved (the first one especially was brilliant). "Underrated" does not necessarily equal "unpopular".
Godzilla Minus One is a powerhouse of themes. Such as forgiving yourself, forgiving others, finding a gamily in the bleakest of circumstances, finding something truly worth fighting for, the only way to be courageous is to be afraid and still do what needs to be done.
And all of this can be found in a Godzilla movie!
I so want to buy that DVD but they aren't issuing it, yet.
At least you didn’t compare it to the monsterverse
American Godzilla is about Godzilla, Japanese Godzilla is about Life by Accented Cinema
I just realized at the rock throwing scene.
Banner-Hulk casually tossed his rock with one arm.
Jen-hulk had to use both arms and exertion.
I don't know why she was happy about that "win" Banner wasn't trying.
That's because it's always pained Banner to be the Hulk. It's generally something he's always struggled with as a superpower and as his personality. Jen has control over her version of being a Hulk and treats being a Hulk like it's fun, when to Banner it's anything but.
I swear everyone who uses that scene never watched the show lol. Right after Jen was proud of her throw, Hulk showed her up by tossing another boulder to the sky. It wasn't trying to show that Jen is stronger but everyone keeps using that scene that way.
@@torytellstalesone problem with this. This is Banner essentially being fused to the Hulk here, being Professor Hulk. This Banner already accepted the Hulk.
@Perdix64 Oh I didn't even think of that
Because she threw a big ass rock far... something she couldn't do before. I think that's a win in anyones book
“This paltry picture is pure plot. Plowing past poignant principles, punting premises, plunging personality, and plundering previously prize properties to produce pauperized profits. Then, its proponents purported to paint the public as the provocateurs?? Pitiful.”
Instantly dead 💀
Ugh, such sweet, sweet alliteration. 🤤
Oh, and he said, "Paltry picture...." Meaning scant, barely there, meager, etc. Not poultry (which is fowl or bird). 😉
Ha out did a Stan Lee Soapbox column!
@Ladykyra101 my autocorrect got me :) good catch!
Just because he could...
A skillful use of the English vernacular seldom spoken or heard let alone understand in this self induced interlectual dark age.
Pray tell, are you a writer of repute?
I always say this every time I'm discussing modern Hollywood movies. Modern writers seems to always write the ending/message that they wanted first, and then work the rest of story backwards. That's why the scenes always felt forced and unnatural, since it was made to justify the ending/message that they wanted.
Compare it to some old movies. Many of them have an unclear or ambiguous ending. Leaving it to the audience to interpret it the way they see it. The result was phenomenal. In modern movies, it was the other way around. The filmmakers forcing the audience to interpret movies the way the filmmakers wanted it.
A failure is that you remember 'cool' scenes. The hour of setup or the symbolism needed to give them depth can get lost. There's often a sense that people don't understand the poetry of a story. And then you get films like the Star Wars sequels, where they'll have a shot of space that looks spectacular but doesn't mean anything. Or a spinning drone shot that's visually interesting, but doesn't say anything. So you get enormous dragons and light saber duels and big showy sequences. In an older film even the quiet moments had eloquence. In a modern movie, they can't use imagery to say anything because the story is meaningless. If the meaning of the film is conveyed via thousands of pieces of imagery and music etc, it's going to often have ambiguity.
The Dungeons and Dragons movie absolutely blew me away and I was fully surprised to find that the themes were not some shoehorned message so many movies are pandering to.
They explored the ideas of loss and recovery from loss, what a family is, how do we overcome feelings of inadequacy, redemption, and feelings of belonging.
This all led to one of, if not the, best death scare scenes I’ve seen in any film. One of the best character sacrifices. Overall it was an extremely enjoyable film.
It honestly felt like watching one of these 90s or early 2000 blockbusters. Yes it had a message but overall was also a lot of fun and entertaining with loveable characters. No cyninism, no subverting, and not meta stuff, with they could have done easily with DnD but so glad they didn't do it.
Shame they tanked their own film buy trying to paint a completely different picture of what it was about then of course attacking their would-be costumers if they disagree with what they are saying, thus making it look even worse.
At this point, all jobs should have Social media Gag Orders for anyone involved in the project. because all it takes is 1 idiot to run their mouth. It doesnt matter if its a private account You are a known element and you are speaking about your job. that makes you a rep for that job.
I loved this movie and was surprised by that-the marketing was so wildly different I was expecting another self-congratulatory slog.
@@BlueBD you know, besides a trailer I saw in the cinema, I did not notice any marketing or any controversy talked about here on youtube. so not fully sure what ya mean
@@toongrowner1 The writers were bragging that they had emasculated every male character in the movie just a few weeks before it came out.
When you made the point about moral relativism permeating our current culture it felt like something finally clicked for me, like you finally verbalized something we’ve all been feeling. The reason none of these stories resonate with anyone, the reason every piece of media feels like it has no point, the reason everything is just so cynical and hollow is because there is no objective reality anymore. An opinion is no longer an opinion, it’s now “Their fact”. Everything feels like it’s either gaslighting me because they’re stating opinions as facts or it feels completely pointless because it’s saying that everything is a matter of opinion. Great video, I really appreciate it.
So true about themes. I've been telling friends, when you don't make telling great stories and making a good movie your #1 priority while making "the message" the priority you will fail to make a good movie. Basically, my dumb way of saying that what ever you try to do the most is your most likely outcome.
I loved "Across the SpiderVerse". My favourite theme it explores is self-worth, but it also talks about choices, acceptance, leadership and power, the importance of principles and beliefs
13:20, like in the original Star Trek, Captain Kirk and the Romulan Commander repeatedly anticipate each other’s decisions (to the other’s surprise) by simply asking “what would I do if I were him?”
The word I’ve always used is “allegory”. Like a child’s story, they often contain a general, life-learning lesson; like follow the golden rule or be kind. I find many great films have a strong allegory. In Spideman 2, Peter embraces the hero to save the day. In animated Mulan, Mulan finds how to overcome her physical limitations to be a great warrior. So on and so forth.
I 100% agree with you about today’s films. Their messages either put down groups that espouse a certain belief, or simply ignore allegories and focus on representation (which doesn’t contribute to a plot in any way).
Allegory usually means it contains reference to something else, though.
Like, Peter Parker being a hero isn't allegorical. Him looking like he's on a cross is allegorical.
Allegory is a reference to another work.
@@revpembroke3082 Yes, it has reference to something else, like a deeper message beneath the surface plot. The Tortoise and the Hare is a classic example of an allegory; a story about two animals racing can be interpreted to “arrogance can lead to your downfall”.
The reference doesn’t have to be specific in any way.
@@Trewq79 That's not what allegory is. It's not about a deeper message. Allegory is a metaphor. Something represents something else. So in "Animal Farm" for example, the owner of the farm represents the traditional order and absolute power, the pigs are communist leaders, the dogs are the police, the horses are the working class and so on. The deeper message is something else, namely: communism isn't the right solution. The Tortoise and the Hare is an allegory but not in the sense you think. The Hare represents people who live fast and without reflection, the Tortoise - people who live slow and thoughtful lives. That's an allegory, while "arrogance can lead to your downfall" is the moral.
It's funny because themes almost inevitably come with Anti-themes that are inverse to the themes, so antagonists end up better.
For an example of anti-themes, the protagonists of Star Wars stand for hope, but the antagonists stand for fear. The anti-theme is "give in to fear and play it safe". The theme is "be hopeful and take risks".
But modern themes are so broken, the antagonists end up better written because of what they stand for is more sound. For example, Ken from Barbie was more relatable and interesting specifically because Barbie was written to be neither.
idk why but modern movies to me felt "mean"
like everyone is an asshole to each other for no reason.
Agreed. Somewhere along the line, witty banter turned into straight up insults. Everyone is mean, especially the writers toward the audience
Agreed. It’s not even presented like being mean and not caring about others is cool, it’s just become the status quo.
I agree. I’ve noticed this trend starting in the 90’s and it got worse and worse.
10:00, honestly I think the idea of Po having to train an apprentice is a pretty good one.
Absolutely, the premise itself is a good idea. But the execution was subpar at best. It felt like a Naruto filler episode
@@atishsingh8926 Fair.
@@atishsingh8926it's basically Boruto
Yeah, if he was much older and is having coming to terms that his days are numbered
@@javierfebronio8907 I think it works here since Oogway waited until he was much older so he died while his successor was still sorely in need of training in advance of an imminent attack. So Shifu has a point in setting Po on the path to find an apprentice now.
I've found that the reason people use themes over messages is because a message is only part of a theme with no real substance, while a theme is taking a message and showing the many ways that that message can effect people weather they choose to go one way and follow it to the ends of the earth, or the other where they would destroy their lives just to avoid it. Consumers are being underestimated when it comes to understanding the message, that Hollywood feels it needs to tell you the message with a character that sometimes fights things then actually utilize the fact that they are in an art medium that can express the depths of that greater message.
Havent seen it yet so heres mine: I LOVE the themes of the Sonic movies. I think they do an excellent job exploring themes of loneliness and finding friendship/belonging, and in the second one, responsibility. In the first one they explore Sonic’s past, running from place to place and how once hes on earth he starts craving connection with those around him to the point hes sneaking into kids baseball games, messing with crazy carl, and spying on tom and maddie, learning more and more about earths culture. Robotnik is in direct opposition to this; he hates people and isnt at all grateful for those around him. He gives agent stone constant abuse even tho stone is the only person in the world who is loyal enough to him to follow through on his insane plans for world domination. I just love the way sonic and robotnik contrast each other, even down to their color schemes!!!
Not bad for family/kids films. Can't wait for Sonic Movie 3!!! (LIVE & LEARN!)
One of my biggest influences as a writer is Rod Serling (creator of the Twilight Zone and Night Gallery). He was HUGE about delivering messages. However, he recognized that a message is only as powerful as the story and characters delivering it. The only way a message/theme resonates with us is a tight plot line, strong characters and execution.
And it works. Some of his greatest stories (“The Monsters Are Due On Maple Street”, “Death’s Head Revisited”, “The Obsolete Man” and “I Am The Night-Color Me Black” to name a few) are charged messages but have strong stories/characters to back them up.
Writers have lost that connection today. They only want to deliver whatever flavor of the weak social justice warrior cry is popular instead of, you know, telling a story.
I love that show 😊 So many memorable episodes.
The Obsolete Man is a treasure.
It's Hollywood that's trying to shove all that down our throats, most writers want to make a good story with good things. Hollywood wants something that's predictable and make money.
I think the difference is maturity. They ran out any of the older writers (who were probably white and therefore bad) and filled with children who have no life experience. Also diverse characters are just that. Their diversity is their whole character. No depth, no struggle, no flaws. I could imagine asking a writer about their character traits and all you would get is an empty stare and, but they're gay/black/trans/misc DEI Identity. In short they're children with no life experience hired to fill a check box.
Im starting to get the idea that I might not be able to write the greatest stories yet... You know as a 22 year old dude who's never really done much.
But hey I dont need to make crazy good things today, it'll come with time.
I have experiences yeah but like... I sometimes wonder if they arent deep enough yet.
No shix u cant your in youtube
That Awkwafina‘s character was being set up as the next ‘UNCONVENTIONAL!’ Dragon Warrior was _muy_ obvious only twenty seconds into her debut scene 🙄
THIS EXACTLY.
'Well, the main character is a black lesbian who identifies as they/them.'
VERSUS
'Well, the main character had a rough childhood and found companionship and support in their only friend, later realizing that they had feelings for said friend. When that friend was pulled away by the forces of evil, the protagonist had to overcome X/Y/Z to try and find their friend - and learned much more about themself in the process.'
And yeah, maybe that second description isn't the GREATEST, but it's something I came up with in just a few minutes, and it has far more depth than the first.
And already, I know the second description is too 'CoMpLiCaTeD' for the 'checkbox hires'. It's saddening we've reached this point in general media...
@@Hexium_Vexium God damn beautiful, i could feel multiple story paths with that brief discription than that diversity crap.
I disagree fundamentally, but I think you’re correct in spirit.
Theme is an emergent property of a coherent series of events (a narrative). You don’t NEED to “have a theme” to make a story with strong themes, well explored. You need to have a narrative thread bound to a point that doesn’t constantly shift around.
What modern entertainment is missing is coherence, set aside in favour of clumsy appeals to *THE MESSAGE* . You can’t make something thematically powerful when every setup is left floating, or worse, anti-paid off (what Rian Roundhead calls “subverting expectations). Good artists first practice the fundamentals to the point of mastery, and only then permit themselves to abstract. The current crop have had their entire educations marred by the reverence of abstraction, so they’ve never understood the nuance of the tropes they simultaneously rely upon and reject.
I agree, there is a parallel to 3 point argumentative essays, where your points are fine, but they have no emotional center. So, a message driven movie might lay out scenes that have messages in them, but to get an emotional core, which elevates the theme/message/meaning you have to have "coherence" like you said.
Also it is a fine balance in figuring out how much to be explicit about and how much to leave up to the audience's reason or imagination. If you leave too much "abstract" or hanging then it is a mess. It makes me think of the end of Lost. It was a song that was never finished, even though they said it was, because too much was not completed. It wasn't an arc... just a half constructed bridge. (Anyway, thank you for the great take)
So a bit of semantics, but that is definitely a better way to describe what the situation is.
setups being left floating is definitely one of the biggest issues with a lot of these movies. Most obviously seen in Steven Universe. Which sucks too because with Paridot they really did do a good setup and payoff. But everything else was just about the worst payoff possible, take like kind of the Amethyst stuff.
And even in Kung Fu Panda 4 as an example here, they set up the chameleon as this mysterious powerful villain only for her to be kind of a wet fart. Effectively a videogame final boss.
@@Yipper64 Video game final bosses that actually have good setup and payoff:
I see "Pulp Fiction" as the video card, I smile and click. You have good articulation and explanation of what works and what doesn't in stories and back it up with relevant examples. Funny how "Shrek" holds up years later. It's a satire of fairy tales, but at its core remains a classic Hero's Journey. He *does* save a damsel from a potential toxic marriage to a bad man, and she saves Shrek from his self-loathing and isolation.
I heard it said somewhere that all great stories are character-driven and even the ones that seem plot-driven are actually character-driven when you dig into them. Whether it's due to writers lacking the skill to create truly great characters or a Hollywood machine that focuses on plot-driven franchise models, there just aren't that many memorable characters in movies anymore.
Worth noting as a Swedish university student is that in our very active comedy theatre scene - where *everyone* is a woke lefty - we still manage to maintain the theme that conflict can be resolved through communication. All of our "spexes" end with the villain realizing the error of his ways and reconciling with the hero, it is a (rhyming, musical) comedy after all. Meaning that the members of a Swedish university theatre group are better at maintaining a compelling narrative than Disney is...
That still sounds like shit
9:43, honestly, no movie following the three first Kung Fu Panda movies could ever be as good as they were. They set the bar too high.
Making a decent film is setting a bar too high? Nah man I don't buy it.
@@DoomguyIsGrinningAtYou. Making an exceptionally good film three times in a row is setting the bar too high
@@matityaloran9157 Exceptionally good first 2 films and a 3 movie that's still quite good, even if a bit dissapointing
Talking about Farquad's character flaws over the Red Pill bros clips was a nice touch. It did not go unnoticed 😂
Right at the end you voiced what I think is the largest part of the problem. Too many "modern" writers haven't lived and don't have the experience and maturity to believe in something. Which means their writing tends to lack any real emotional hook. They write scenes they believe will excite people and they hand those scripts empty of any plot or character to soulless accountants who lack any understanding of the audience they are attempting to entertain. Their first few offerings snuck past a bored, but not yet jaded public who were willing to tolerate an initial failure after so many successes that were based on the works of older, far more experienced writers (I can't say more talented, because these new writers haven't had time to demonstrate any personal talents as writers.).
Honestly, until Hollywood gives up on its current lust for cheap inexperienced writers who are willing to continually attempt to subvert expectations rather than write a good story about meaningful characters, the problem will continue to get worse. And I shall continue to avoid watching their offerings and enjoy my library of old DVDs which has movies created in an older time before the rot infected entertainment.
I do think the hall “experience” thing gets a little overused. While I definitely think your life experiences can help you write, I think what’s maybe even more important is just reading. I have not had the most dynamic life, but I absorbed every book I could get as a kid. I read everything from science-fiction to horror to fantasy, and as many classics as I could. I watched movies that gave me understanding a visual storytelling. So while I may not have had as many life experience, I lease understand how themes work in the story, and how to construct it. I don’t think any of these people writing for marvel or anything I’ve ever even read a single comic book. They are trying to write for material they don’t understand because they never read a single thing. This is a generation with short term attention spans that never learned from the basics, simply because they couldn’t pay attention long enough.
@@ericnierstedt6242This, precisely. A lot of writers and consumers these days are simply not well-read, arguably bordering on illiteracy. Diane Warren is famously known for the many songs she's written, including romantic ones; however, she has no experience with romance, she's always been single! Yet, her songs still capture the essence of romance, and that's what matters. Reading helps cultivate skill in writing.
Even the Adam Sandlers movie Click had a theme to it that it hammered you with quite a bit. Don't tune out of the bad or even mundane parts of life because time waits for no one and you could find yourself an old man before you know it and everything you took for granted is gone. Even the stupid dog humping the cotton out of a stuffed animal
I had a long comment about Cowboy Bebop and how well it explores its themes in many different ways but this example is funnier and less talked about. I hate you Fae but the writing was so good in Bebop I felt absolutely terrible for her.
Well said. Modern Hollywood often seems to take deconstruction and subversion, and then do the "when all you have is a hammer" thing. More afraid of being _said_ to be wrong than of actually _being_ wrong.
"Godzilla Minus One" is actually one of the first movies that comes to mind, theme-wise, of the last few years.
Funnily enough, I think the Sonic movies, all other reasons for success aside, do themes pretty well. The first one is the story of being lonely and feeling cut off in a situation where you can't connect with others/can't reach your full potential. Sonic expresses this as a child who has never been able to connect to others for reasons of his own safety, always watching from a distance. Tom is a man who feels somewhat stifled and cut off because he doesn't feel like he's reaching his full potential in the small town he lives in. Robotnik is so far above everyone else in intelligence (and was bullied for it if we take him at his word) that he doesn't try to connect to anyone, Agent Stone aside. The three main characters help to explore the theme of managing to find fulfillment in your home and importantly, the friends you make and have there. Eggman refuses to do so because he's cut himself off from everyone else and is obsessed with gaining power to make himself his own vision of better. Him and Sonic are both exceptional in different ways, but both take drastically different paths in how they decide to share that exceptionalism with the world. One selflessly helps others and cares about them, while the other disdains others (again, Agent Stone aside) and tries to shove them all down to lift himself up. Tom meanwhile finds new fulfillment in his old life, especially with his new friend.
And I think the sequel does a good continuation where it's about finding family and responsibility. Sonic is adjusting to living with Tom and Maddie and isn't really ready to acknowledge that they've become his parents. He learns to be an older big brother figure in his adventure with Tails (one minor nitpick is that they could've had a bit more bonding with Tails, current film is fine but I think one more scene of them playing a game or doing something would've cinched them as brother figures). Knuckles meanwhile has lost his family and is trying to live up to their legacy, which leaves him open to joining Robotnik and puts him at loggerheads with Sonic for much of the film. Sonic and Knuckles are foils and mirrors in that film as two people trying to live up to the legacies of their dead parents, and eventually realize that they have far more in common than different.
I won't say this is groundbreaking stuff, but it gives a good backbone to the films and makes then far more wholesome and enjoyable than you would think. I'm very happy and grateful that Sonic managed such a turnaround and is doing so well. I hope they continue this trajectory with the third film. Have Shadow's whole thing (inherited from the games) be him trying to fulfill the wishes of his dead family and how that compares and contrasts with Sonic. I think it could even do better than the game it'll be based on, because Sonic has a much more defined character than in the game.
Modern movies and shows are written and produced by people who are convinced they're saving the world. They think The Message is just too important for them to risk having it ignored or missed.
They’re too stupid to understand what their job is and why no one likes their shot.
Dude, that assembly of articulate alliteration awed and amazed an oft viewer of all your aspirational assemblies of acting. Well done!
I absolutely appreciate your astounding acclaim
It actively appalled and amazed an audience that actually absorbed and appreciated the articulate and awe-inspiring alliterational awesomeness.
I'm just patiently waiting for the day you finally go on Open Bar.
Great video, Greg. I love when you bring up Shrek as a point of comparison for your subjects. Such a great movie.
Notice me Drinker-pai, haha.
Shrek is one of my favorites to bring up. It’s shockingly good writing, made even more surprising because it’s supposedly a kids animation and it started as an F you to Disney and Eisner
"Witness me!" ua-cam.com/video/4KlSuGNt8e4/v-deo.html
"Mediocre Morsov!" :D
The thing I've realized while endeavoring to write a novel (that'll hopefully see the light of day. Maybe), is that base characters are generally easy, cool setpieces are easy, scene ideas are generally easy, honestly most things when outlining and building base ideas are easy, even themes. It's adding depth to all of the story components that is absolutely brutal. For example, adding actual character to characters. It's easy to write the angsty protagonist that's trying to find a family. It's incredibly difficult to take that character from a flat or mostly flat character to one with deep layers or complex traits, many of which may conflict. Through numerous rewrites and reworks, my characters, locations, and other ideas have started developing genuine depth, and continue to. The same thing with themes. It's really easy to say something. It's really hard to say it well and in a nuanced way that makes the point in a way all people will be receptive to regardless of whether they agree. I've found that constant rewrites are really needed. Make the theme blunt(ish) the first time around, and then really start to refine on the follow up drafts. It's especially difficult when combining themes that seem to conflict (sort of example: God is Good as one theme and the church and Christians can be bad as another).
When I watch most modern movies and shows (or watch videos on them instead), it feels like they were given two drafts at most. There's hardly any depth or refining, and if we're lucky to get conflicting themes that could provide depth, instead of working to make them work together, the themes are just dumped in front of the audience and create a terrible dissonance that just feels incredibly lazy and cheap. But by the merit of the themes even existing, the writers seem to want a pat on the back.
In terms of themes, I think the How To Train Your Dragon movies are incredible at exploring the ideas and themes they posit. Especially the first one, where Stoick is simultaneously the villain, a caring but seriously struggling father, and arguably one of the heroes given he really is motivated by caring for his tribe and family. And when tribe clashes with family, we get to see just how difficult it is for him to balance that, when he gets it right, and when he gets it very wrong. Hiccup really spoke to me in that movie as the geeky outcast trying to make a difference (and for other reasons I'll skip for brevity), but as I got older, I genuinely think Stoick's character helped me connect with and understand my dad more, because I had to realize that he wasn't just my dad, but a man with a lot going on and who really cared about me and the family. Some days he'd get it right, other days not, but that doesn't change that he loved and cared about all of us (and still does).
One of my favorite shows of all time is an anime called Dr. stone: it’s a show about humanity’s innovation and perseverance, the inherent value of every single person, and it explores themes I can’t disclose without kinda giving away the show (it’s something I love/hate about anime, they’re so beautifully simple) and it’s also full to the brim with easy to understand science and tons of fun, and even stuff you can try at home. I strongly recommend!
I love it too! Other than having great themes it's also hilarious with great characters.
I can just click “Like” right away on Greg’s videos. They never miss!
FINALLY someone who gets it. Your points at the end are spot on. Moral relativism is absolutely the issue. People come to movies to seek truth, and when you dont believe in objective truth, there's nothing to relate to the human experience, making it a poor story
0:51 it’s true you don’t miss 😂
Nimona absolutely blew me away and brought me to tears, this movie was so good
So many writers and directors focus on one idea, and everything has to bend around it. It cannot be challenged. It cannot be questioned. Everything has to serve it, and it is the end goal. A good theme is a medium that a writer uses to create a good story, even better if you can interweave several together and show interplay between opposing and/or similar ideas. A good story is not made in service to an idea, with the express desire to push that idea as the right one, but rather made up of ideas that push the story forward.
I always think of it in terms of how your story or idea should be the star and the theme helps keep your story focused. First you find out what your story’s about, then you find out what your story’s ABOUT.
My favorite example is Disney’s original Aladdin movie. The story on its sleeve is a fantasy action romance about a poor swindler who suddenly has the power to have whatever he wants.
The movie’s theme, however, is freedom and the cages we all have. The core of what bonds Aladdin and Jasmine is (as stated by them in their meet cute) feeling trapped. Genie desires freedom, Jafar feels stuck in a position adjacent to power without actually having any (which ultimately influences the irony of his defeat) even Sultan make small reference to feeling bound by the law and decides to throw that shackle off for his daughter’s sake. I could legit go on, but the
TL;DR is, a story should be about characters and a world that feels like the writers cared about it. The theme is what happens when you zero in on what specific aspect of the (already defined) world and characters you want to focus on.
I was going to hypothesize why these films don't have themes and you took the words right out of my mouth in the last two minutes.
It makes me worry about my generation. These films are hollow because we're hollow. I'm an atheist myself, but I feel a return to spiritually of some kind would really benefit my generation. Filling that hole with the Cult of Identity Politics makes miserable, empty husks of people and it reflects in our art.
The Orville! Seriously, go watch the Orville. Heck, I disagree with some of the themes in the Orville and I still love it. They're ballsy enough to show both sides of some really hot-button modern issues as well - kind of like old Star Trek.
I love The Orville. I also had to pause the episode because I was laughing so hard when they tried to depict abortion as morally good. Most of the show is great, but every now and then modern writing standards peek through enough to make a scene hilariously bad.
@@MrDj232Even that they did with some amount of tact. While showing the would-be parents the child they would have had is incredibly cruel, and it's depicted as a bad thing, it at least acknowledges the weight of the subject. I have no doubt any other modern show trying to touch on similar subjects would be really flippiant about human life and would solely focus on the freedom of the parents and ignore the human loss aspect. I actually think this is a perfect example of a bit I didn't necessarily agree with the show on, but I have respect for how they went about it.
The writers don't have to share my exact opinions and ethics, they just need to respect them. I think the show did that well enough. I'll bet that episode pissed off some staunchly pro-choice people as well by acknowledging the tragedy of the life being lost. The Krill were supposed to represent the pitfalls of a highly authoritarian "ends justifies the means" society and I think that scene actually illustrated that really well. Whether or not you're pro-life or pro-choice is kind of beside the point; the cruelty they use to push their agenda is the main idea.
@@danhillenburg4487 Had the punishment been different I might agree. But having to confront the life you ended as punishment for ending that life is an incredibly humane way to handle the need for punishment. Treating it as some torturous cruelty was outrageous, and I couldn't take the scene seriously. It was a bit of a Johnny Walker moment in that it made the villains of the series seem like the more reasonable side.
I'm a born and raised atheist but I have always known the only reason I can sustain my atheism is because I'm surrounded by believers. Most people need something bigger than themselves to believe in. Without it they flounder. And that's what we're saying right now. A lot of floundering people. They've given up that higher power for temporary satisfaction. I feel bad for them. Legitimately.
Oh and I loved the Orville until Disney bought it and completely destroyed it by making it about a girl. I liked it when it was actually Seth MacFarlane and not Disneyfide Seth MacFarlane.
@@MrDj232I think I just disagree with you on a philosophical level then. The point still stands though. They were much more nuanced about it than just blatantly saying "Abortion good. Agree or your a bad person." Even acknowledging the point of view of a pro-lifer in a mainstream Hollywood production puts them head and shoulders above anything else that's out right now. Heck, Mercer is only shown that after asking Teleya why she didn't get an abortion. Mercer clearly loves his daughter, so hopefully this made some pro-choicers question how set-in-stone they are on their positions.
I had some similar moments to you, but more to do with some of the trans stuff. Though, once again, they did a pretty good job at showing the other side of that as well. That's a pretty big deal and I'm not sure how they got away with going against the liberal orthodoxy at the moment.
Anyway, my main point is that good sci-fi, in my opinion, is meant to make people think. You might disagree with the position the show took on this issue to the point of seeing it as an absurdity, but I think it's quite a bit more thoughtful than most other media I'd label as "woke" right now and doesn't really fit into the same category.
Where my RANGO lovers at? Now that's a damn good movies, with a strong theme.
God I fucking love Rango. Rattlesnake Jake is the coolest thing I ever did saw.
_"It only takes one bullet."_
👏👏👏 That movie is amazing and I watched when it first came out in theaters
Wicked little letters is a good example of no themes, message being bludgeoned at you and historical accuracy thrown out the window.
The message, the message, the message is the reason why nobody wants to spend money on theater movies anymore. Hollywood keeps doubling down on it, too.
Mine probably Nightcrawler (2014). It shows how far would you go to achieve your goal.
The writing is so good that despite the lead character is a horrible sociopath, we as the viewers can't help but to root for him in a strange way.
This is exactly correct. If your core philosophy sucks, there is no way for you to write anything correctly. There is no truth, there is only your experience, and there is very little about the experience of a bubble wrapped adult child that people find compelling. Cit. UCLA's new campsites
That was edutainment at its finest. Puss in Boots really is as close to a perfect movie as I've ever seen.
"A thousand years of longing" was an awesome movie.
Saw the Fall Guy over the weekend. It was pretty well written with well-fleshed out characters. The wife said it was the best big budget movie she had seen for several years.
This video was so good I had to go back and watch it a second time. *chef's kiss*
Also, I have no idea how you got through that tongue twisting rant at 14:10. I was out of breath just watching you do it. Cheers sir!
The problem with subverting expectations is that it only works once. Game of thrones for example, you had to watch every week hoping your favorite character would live and then even after Jon is killed you have to keep your arching because now resurrection is a thing so just because they’re dead now doesn’t mean they’re dead for good. But once the show ends there’s not much rewatch value because the “subvert expectations” has been done. Meanwhile lots of the rings trilogy is 20 years old and still fondly looked at because of its story telling
That is a huge insight.
Got had a lot of subtlety, and nuance. (Right before the last few seasons at least)
I think your Damsel review was one of the best. Completely hilarious! 😂
I think you've hit the nail on the head. There are so many movies that are blaming the audience (or the obvious not target audience) for performing badly. So many are predictable and almost becoming parodies. You talk about a movie that's delivering a message and doing it through storytelling and solid theme would be Dancing With Wolves. Perfect example of what a lot of "the message" movies today want to convey, but Kevin Costner actually delivered it in a not only palatable way, but in a way that actually tugged on various emotional chords.
Yeah I think a lot of the times in the last 5 years they focused too much on the theme. Things like Hazben Hotel may have themes that I don't necessarily agree with but the way they weave it into the story doesn't hit you in the face. So you can just appreciate the show itself
It does force a few things, and it's completely obvious when it does.
@@Timelord411What are the "forced" things in Hazbin? 😶 I thought the themes were good
@@princesserika9899it's premise itself is a forced message. Where are the bad people in hell? I mean sure we've got a bunch of murderers and cannibals and they're all gay but where are the regular bad people? You know the asshole who lives down the street beats his wife and kids doesn't pay his taxes and steals from the church? Where is he? Why is everyone in hell gay and everyone in heaven straight? Why is everyone in hell who's supposedly a good person degenerate as hell? Why is the only person who does something that's actually bad Adam? Not to mention the whole show is pushing Satanism. The idea that hell is good and heaven is bad. It's a message in and of itself. Oh and I actually like the show. Doesn't mean I don't see all the messages it pushes. Not to mention the fact that there's literally no story to it. They don't do anything to achieve their goals. If anything they just make it worse.
Yeah but Hazbin is an indie animation. It wasn't produced by a major movie studio like Disney. That's probably why it isn't so soulless.
Consistently good takes on various topics. You have become one of my favourite channels, where I actually bother to click the like and not just let the preview play to avoid the commercials :)
Same can be said of modern video games as well.
In awe of your growth and it is so well deserved. I can't wait to see you reach 1 million subs!
This might just be your best video yet, Greg! Awesome analysis - I’m thinking back to compare a ton of new and old movies and realizing how often the lack of themes applies and cheapens what could be great films. Definitely looking at movies in a new way!
I discovered Kubo and the Two Strings accidentally (The movie I'd wanted to see was sold out, and Kubo was the only other one that looked interesting), and now it's one of my favorites.
They bring back OLD hype movies then make it a passing legacy theme
for the sake of possible franchise
I agree with you about Shrek. This movie works on so many levels! He's not a villain, but others have perceived him that way, except for Donkey and Princess Fiona. They've learned to see only the good in him. The true villain is Lord Faarquad, who is consumed by greed and corruption. It's a wonderful lesson about how we shouldn't judge others based solely on appearance.
Puss in Boots: The Last Wish is excellent. It's about facing the inevitable: Death. But Death must be faced with bravery and courage, instead of fear. Today's movies need more depth and nuance.
Yeah I feel you! Until only recently when I read Fahrenheit 451 (great for conveying the theme of this video btw) did I realize why everything I wrote felt so bland from an emotional standpoint. I’m good with characters, I can do plot, world building etc but I usually forgot to add theme. And in fact, I found out that I’m really good at it! There are SO many things that I’ve wanted to share with the world, but I wasn’t quite sure how. It’s the perfect opportunity.
And I haven’t found a movie that has excellent theme, but my favorite audiobook of all time, Epithet Erased, beautifully executes all of its themes. If you do decide to give it a listen, just a warning it has a LOT of similes and it’s 9 hours long. Only complaints.
older movies are still so good and rewatchable. go dig in those older movie files
Thank you for so eloquently putting into words the concepts and gripes I can't nail down while trying to argue this point with people.
Great job, a very thoughtful critique. I can tell how much effort was put into this script and production.
Banger critique.. 😎👍
How to train your Dragon is another underrated Classic Trilogy.
TRON: Legacy is another gem I absolutely adore with its amazing visuals and themes of growth, fatherhood and sacrifice.
Hollywood today is that proverbial boiling frog that has cooked itself in its own moral hubris and is now almost devoid of true creativity.
Now they are stuck with Spreadsheet Bean Counters and completely out-of-touch idealogues scrambling to remake, live adapt or sequelize all their Classic Films of the past, further poisoning the legacies that laid the foundations of their success with post-modenist subversive, deconstructive drivel.
Away with them... 💁
7:50, honestly that could work if it integrated the S. Morgenstern jokes from the book even though it’s something difficult to adapt to the screen.
14:20, nice use of alliteration
Good movie first (coherent plot, understandable characters, and character development) once you get people to actually care about the story then people might be open to writer message. Writers write what they experience, in the "age of instant information" the characters they write are treated the same way, I can't wait for movies to have "Hey Alexa/Siri/Cortana, who do I overcome 'insert plot point here'?" That should really speed up the movie making process and decrease run time. How needs a 120-minute movie, when the characters can just have pocket AI do the thinking, discovering, and growing for the characters.
wow. a grounded perspective and might I add, you nailed it. ill be watching more of your resonating content.
FINALLY!! Someone who recognizes the genius that is Shrek
I interpreted Kung Fu Panda 4 like this:
It shows contrast between modern main characters and more older main characters. Today running theme about MC's is that they are morally ambiguous, doing bad bad things but actually doesn't want to do bad things because environment forces them to(Get it?), so they walk between the thin line what is right and what is wrong. Conversely, Po, being a classic goody two shoes is just being good and virtuous. And if you noticed, he has the upper hand all the time. So I thought: You shouldn't blame your surroundings to justify your bad deeds. You always have a chance to act right and it has more benefits. I assume the story felt themeless because Po has fleshed out as a character, and Po wasn't the main character. Po was the theentor who will guide (What's that Aquafina fox caracter's name?). And just got misdirected or something...
That's how I saw it because I think it's useful to think that way. Having inferior sequels is nothing new, some people may even find them enjoyable. As long as it's not Megamind 2(it was a huge slimy spit in the face)
Great work. You’re awesome Greg
Who else hates King Fu Panda 4?
I absolutely despise the film for how mediocre it is. I hold the KFP series with respect. The fourth is a middle finger to the predecessors. The animation team really tried their best and make it coherent and decent as possible.
Kung Fu Panda 4 obviously was meant to have the theme of "change", but they didnt seem to put much thought into that in general. They just wanted "change" to be a theme and went from there. Which, progressives being short sighted as they try to preach about change with very little thought? That never happens.
The first three movies where a perfect trilogy, because essentially the themes where body, mind, and spirit. I cant remember exactly what was said to be the inspiration for that being the theme, but it does wrap it up in a bow.
I immediately picked up on this though. Because like, you start with the idea of change "oh lets make the bbeg a chameleon because they change" and then "what would be changing about poe though?" "Maybe he changes from being the dragon warrior to not" "oh then we need a successor" "the successor could change from being bad to being good" "So they would be a twist villain with a change of heart!" "and then poe would have to change his location, in order to get to his goal"
And you know, basically taking the easiest thought from each concept from there, basically slapping the "theme" keyword into concepts.
edit - by the by I typed this before watching 10:34 I was spot on it seems.
Iron Claw is a new movie where the writters clearly build the story around the theme of toxic family dynamics. They even diminished the role of the sports industry and sports politics to not distract from the main theme. The great thing is, that this movie shows not only the bad parts of the family dynamics but also the love and strong bond between the brothers.
There's also variance & nuance in their interactions, with their family & others - they are individual characters, they aren't interchangeable- & there's a depth to the tragedy...
thank you for the video, you have popped open a void I didn't know existed in my creative works
Yet modern writers want us to care when they go on strike.
If you can't even deliver a mid tier script while being paid more than the average joe then you deserve to be replaced by an AI.
Damsel had a really strong potential for a theme I thought we where opening with: wealthy countries being built on and surviving because of exploiting the poor. I mean they where sacrificing girls from poorer kingdoms to a dragons so they continue living in the wealth of the dragons lands, could have played with that.
Great points and contrasting examples!
My favorite movie in recent history is Top Gun Maverick. I saw it twice in theaters and twice at home…so far.
Can you believe the executive director didn't even imagine giving the Lizard and the Fox a backstory in the first place, and added the Furious Five at the last second?
The co-director was not on equal terms with the main director, and wished she could have given a satisfying ending to Shifu and Tailung but was brushed off for a more 'fun' movie.
The theme could have been about redemption, at least for Tailung and the fox, since Shifu was supposed to be kidnapped in the original ideas.
I've heard the development was an absolute clown show. They should have just started over completely because what we got was a total mess
3:30 the great thing is that they explored the themes through comedy. I dont think "onions have layers" would be so iconic if it was just isolated Shrek explaining the theme of the movie. It comes up naturally in dialogue where Shrek is trying to think of an allegory and just picks the thing in his hand, only for Donkey to completely misunderstand him. And well, you know the scene.
As they say explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog, you understand it better, but it dies.
quickly becoming my favorite youtube channel. the alliteration was perfect. the Josh Weissman joke landed beautifully.
Godzilla Minus One had great themes of sacrifice, fear and redemption. The main character was unwilling and afraid to sacrifice himself for his country despite the cultural stigma for failing to do so. He also let everyone on the island die due to again his fear of the monster. Flash forward to the end. He volunteers to sacrifice himself to stop Godzilla. Not for his country but to protect his family. He overcomes his fear of the monster not just because the plot says he has to but because his fear of dying pales in comparison to the fear of what will happen to his daughter if he fails again.
To recommend another UA-camr who has also given a definition of theme and how to do it well - The Closer Look.
In short, he says a theme asks a question, and the example he gives is Shoreshank Redemption, the theme of which he says is "Can Hope Survive even in the darkest of places?" and then you have characters representing arguments for and against.
P.S. Tea - I recommend TeaPeople (I think they're an American company?)
I'm a Christian and I watch Hazbin Hotel, not because I believe or agree with it, but because it is so well made that I can suspend my disbelief and enjoy the show for what it is
The movies I’ve seen happen, mostly made in Japan, I think they do a better job, exploring themes, because they actually have the main characters revolve around it, and the theme of the movie is actually connected to the story, and not just put into the audience. I can name one movie which the movie is named Belle but the movie explored self acceptance, and how your experiences in the world change you as a person.
I watched the miniseries 'Pam & Tommy' and found it very thematically rich. I would even say it was a theme-driven series. The way it dealt with the ideas of privacy and property was really interesting. I've seen lots of movies that deal with the pitfalls of fame, but this miniseries really did an especially good job looking at celebrity versus private life.
14:10 -14:26 BARS
_Hail Caesar!_ is a really underrated film from the last 10 years that handles a simple theme really well (not surprising, given that it’s a Coen Brothers movie). Josh Brolin’s character is a “fixer” who solves various problems for a 1950’s Hollywood studio, from making a biblical epic that doesn’t offend any religious people to covering up a star’s out-of-wedlock pregnancy. He thinks he’s wasting his career and considers leaving for a much less frivolous industry, but he eventually realizes that the job he does is still important and fulfilling. The theme of being satisfied with what you have and finding meaning in what you do is a solid one, and one that a lot more people today should take to heart.
Even though the movie is fictional, it also gets bonus points for having one of the most accurate - and amusing - depictions of blacklisted Communist screenwriters.
I guess I'm also going to be pushing this less color theme I'm color blind but I also think colors are kind of gaudy
Elemental. Made me cry. So good.
Dallas Jenkins is a master of weaving themes in The Chosen series. Themes of what it means to be chosen, themes of redemption, themes of changing times, themes revolution and authority, themes are darkness vs light, and themes of laws and customs, and love.