THE ANGER OF FERRUS MANUS! THE LEGACY OF ISSTVAN!
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- Опубліковано 25 січ 2022
- Hi all Rho here! Today we discuss the actions of Ferrus Manus at Isstvan... why maybe he needs more respect on his legacy!
General Spoiler Warning as we will be discussing events from across the Warhammer 40,000 universe. As well as events covered from the Horus Heresy novel "Fulgrim" by Graham McNeill. So you have been warned!
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Ferris being a head taller than everyone else just seems like a cruel joke
It could also be metaphorical. This is the Ghorgon one of the Emperor's favorites and well liked by his brothers. To them he was bigger than them in some degree.
He "was" a head taller .. eeehhh??
@@TheTrueMalice why was he one of big Es faves anyway? theres so little going on with him.
@@conan2096 time spent. He was in the first few Primarchs found. Honestly we have seen more father and son bonding from Ferris and Emp than Sanguinius
@@conan2096 my advice? read the horus heresy novel Fulgrim. he's actually seems like a pretty stand up guy over all. very driven, direct, but when he likes you he's a great friend
Ferrus at Isstvan: "My first instinct is to attack the traitors with a cold, calculated, logical plan"
Also Ferrus: "Unfortunately, its overshadowed by all this UNYIELDING RAGE!!!"
Such is the duality of him and his legion!
Thwarting my plans?!
@@benives254 ARE YOU?!!!
@@ProfessionalRtard...yes
Vegeta YEEESSSSS!!!!!
Vulcan, Ferruis and Corax had absolutely no clue how deep the betrayal went
It also shows their innocence, these 3, along with the Angel, were those of the Primarchs that had no issues with Horus being declared Warmaster in the first place.
@@Peter-by3ox Yeah they believed in Hours so the pain- anger and confusion at that moment was off the scale even for a Primarch to handle let alone 3 of them right there in the moment
@@xero0083guys im 2 years late but you guys are so right ferrus wouldve turned the heresey around died WAY to early
Didn't Horus express regret that Ferrus had to die because no other primarch knew all the ends and outs of war as well as Ferrus? Look at Meduson, a mere space marine was responsible for killing millions of traitors and slowing the traitors race to Terra and his traps nearly killed a primarch.
He did, in warmaster short story he lament to his skull that he got the "broken" brothers on his side instead of the ferrus, sanguius and guillman.
Horus actually admitted that if Ferrus had joined him he could have gotten the job done with fewer than half the Primarchs. Horus viewed some like Konrad Curze and Angron as the ‘broken ones’.
He wasn't wrong, about the only solid primarchs he got were alpharius (maybe, and only for a while), Magnus (after breaking him and his legion), and Perturabo (who fulgrim tried his best to shiv)...
Ferrus : The risk I took was calculated, but boy am I bad at math.
Also Ferrus: No! Math, is bad at me!
Shut your face brain-ghost Ferrus, you are not friend!
@@akumaking1 You are weak Vulcan
He really lost his head for a moment at Isstvan.
The Iron Hands have a rage so hot that they burn the humanity within them. The Iron Hands have brought an anger and hatred that will destroy anything they considered as an enemy or as a weakness within themselves. The death of Gorgon haunts his sons to very day similar to their cousins of Blood Angels and their Primarch, but their curse is from within and without.
Really he stands "a head" taller than any of his brothers? I think that might be a little too on the nose but it may also just be an Easter egg from the author
I always thought Vukan was the tallest primarch
Angron is angry.
@@trajanfidelis1532 He was, after ferrus lost his head apparently 😄
I remember hearing that during fulgrim. I like to think ferrus is tall and lanky kind of like mortarion just taller. Just built like a grease monkey who lives off gas station food and cigarettes you know lean. Vulcan is probably the same height but just a fuckin beef cake
yep he was taller than his brothers and that made cutting his head easier
Vulcan is on record for saying he might be the strongest primarch ... now that Ferrus is dead. That should make it clear, that Ferrus was potentially the strongest among the primarchs, definitely on par with Vulcan.
This is what people don't understand about the Iron Hands. They have a lot of rage, but its chained by iron discipline, and directed by cold logic. If you combine the three you get a devastating machine powered by rage, structured by discipline, and directed by logic. At Isstvan the rage exploded and broke down that machine.
They are an expression of guilt. Ferrus' guilt that Fulgrim thought he could be turned traitor. The Legion's guilt that they failed the Emperor and couldn't stop Horus. The guilt of the surviving Iron Hands who failed to defend their father.
The Iron Hands have been blaming their own rage as a failure for the next 10,000 years and it is only in the last 300 years that Kardan Stronos and Maalkan Feirros have started to return to Ferrus' original philosophy of rage, discipline, and logic working in concert.
Good sales pitch. That gives him so good depth.
Is he like a slightly less Dickish, more well rounded Perturabo?
Ferrus Manus returning as head Primarch of the Legion of the Damned would be amazing.
Ferris was one of my favorite Primarchs and was hoping he would have at least wounded fulgrim and deminish his "perfect" features. I hope he comes back with the others in the future.
iirc wasn't his essence used up to stabilize the fighting in the broken imperial web way project?
Ferrus wounded Fulgim's pride for his failure to persuade Ferrus to betray the Imperium
then there's Rylanor
He was a let down
Cool idea for ferrus' return:
Iron Hands discover his head, and put it in a dreadnought
It is a shadow of his former self
Then a headless legion of the damned commander appears
"That is MY head!"
@@rowdyzack5914 Ferrus being primarch of the Damned would be badass.
The Word Bearers being sent as "reenforcment" always seems odd to me.
Oh no! some the the Astartes have rebelled.
Hey, I know, send the ones the Emperor himself had punished to fight them.
Redemption has to be earned somehow but i cede to your point considering the subjects in question
The Word Bearers spent a lot of time pretending to be good little conquereors and actually ended up bringing a lot of worlds into "compliance".
I could see Word Bearer reinforcements being hand-waved away as them being desperate to get in the Emperor's good graces... As far as I can recall, the authors don't bother to explain 🤷♂️
They were punished for being overzealous for the emperor. At face value. That would make them a great choice to send against traitors.
The Night Lords should also have brought up some suspicion
It always bothered me that of the reinforcements sent to Isstvan, three-quarters of them were known to be the most unreliable and questionable (apart from the World Eaters who had already turned)... and the others were the Alpha Legion!
The element of surprise requires a quick and concise attack. Waiting for reinforcements in orbit only allows the traitor forces more time to prepare. As far as his final push; the reinforcements had arrived and the battle seemed won. Pushing forward to kill at least one traitor primarch to ensure he wouldn't escape is logical. By ancient battlefield standards the majority of casualties are taken during retreat, when an army is broken. He made the right calls with the info he had.
To be fair both of his other primarchs advised him against it. Also if those 4 legions were attacked by 7 legions together - then the casualties suffered by the loyalist would be much smaller. So in the end it was not the best idea. Also Dorn's specific orders were to attack together so he disobeyed direct orders. I have no sympathy for Ferrus. He was reckless and died like a total noob to be honest... He did something that out of other primarchs only Angron would do. This speaks for itself.
@@Visor3410 But do primarchs really take orders from anyone but daddy or Malcador ?
Plus tying the enemy up with a fight means the reinforcements can land and flank..... if they're on his side....
@@Visor3410 meh the reinforcements were inbound and they are called the second wave implying a first. Charging fulgrim was headstrong yes but the initial attack was totally within the scope of ferrus’ command and his brothers were with him. Plus they were winning. Dorn ordered him to end the war masters rebellion as command was his responsibility and he knew that he was about to share the field with more of his brothers than ever before and he wanted to send a message Mr iron hands comin for ya neck traitors. He had every reason to think he would win in both cases it’s not like he lost to fulgrim because he overextended himself he just wasn’t fast enough 1v1. And either way he believed the odds so overwhelmingly in favor of the loyalists that if he lost the battle was still won why not settle things with fulgrim before possibly losing that opportunity forever what if fulgrim had fallen to curze or perturabo after ferrus hesitated he might be thought sympathetic to the traitors. Besides isn’t the real question what made dorn or ferrus think that Horus would let himself be cornered under such overwhelming numbers that should’ve been their hold up moment
If I could have two primarchs be rewritten, it would 100% be Ferrus and Fulgrim. They're not even the worst written, they just had the most lost potential.
Vulkan would be my pick, even though he was involved in multiple books - the overall coverage in all of them is still less than Ferrus presence in Fulgrim. Nick kyme, ruined the potential of Vulkan!
I just wish they'd rewrite betrayer and let kharn kill Erebus at the end instead of Erebus escaping.
I wish that he would return as commander of the legion of the damned, or some other kind of imperial saint (deamon). One of the best primarch, wounded and outraged by his beloved brother betray, this is what killed him, love, not stupidity.
Go read The Master of Mankind. You will find what you seek.
Ferrus WAS a head taller than his brothers, but he isn't now.
chuckles in Fulgrim
It may not have been he's anger but his faith in his son's and brothers that lead him to face Fulgrim.
The Iron Tenth stubborn known for winning when others would fail how could ten thousand veterans of he's legion fail.
The true legacy of Isstvan is the slow fall into madness that the Iron hands have endured for then thousands years with the need to replace human weakness. Ferrus was going to try and stop that after Isstvan IIRC.
The Novel Fulgrim, could be the finest HH novel. It was written so well, I felt the rage, the betrayal, and the death....
Thanks, just purchased my next audible. I needed a little push.
At first I kind of turned my nose up at this comment. Then I got to thinking about it. Fulgrim may actually be one of the best. Maybe not THE best but one of the top. I really liked the loyal fulgrim. I felt his fall to be soo tragic. I had a really hard time reading the book because by the end I was kinda disgusted with the emperor's children. I really really hated them in the book with the iron warriors.
The flip from arguably a great Legion to debased heretics is a master stroke of writing.
@@terrildonaldson532 what made it so brilliant was that for a moment...just for a moment I believed that Fulgrim would not turn from the light of the Emperor. I was completely lost in the story, reality fell to the wayside. Only a few other books have made me feel that way.
He was most closely related to Angron when it came to temperament; thankfully he was not also subject to the Butcher's Nails... Physically, Ferrus was similar to Vulkan, though I am 100% certain that bit in the Fulgrim novel is incorrect; though it could just be the way Fulgrim viewed Ferrus at the time as they were very close. Vulkan was, in fact, the largest of them. Alpharius and Magnus possessed numerous ways to appear different sizes, but in their true forms, Vulkan was larger than all of them.
Horus said to his remembrancers that he believed he would have won the war with Ferrus, and was always disappointed in Fulgrim for how that exchange went. Although an argument could be made that the weapon, not Fulgrim, was ultimately responsible for how it ended. Both were at a standstill, and the demon in the weapon moved almost involuntarily; the sacrifice of a Primarch is what freed the demon bound within the blade and left the weapon empty thereafter.
I feel Ferrus is easily the most underrated primarch. In part because of his "sloppy" attack on Isstvan. Where he was mostly as ragedriven as he was, to avenge the percieved insult of Fulgrim to his honour/pride. I believe had he bot been confronted by Fulgrims betrayel he wouldn't have been as undercut as he was.
He did beat fulgrim until he daemon got tagged in
well primarch dying like a regular astrate is shameful enough for him to be considered meh he should learn from kornald curze
It was confirmed by Horus itself when he told Maloghrust in the book Vengful Spirit
Iron Hands really do need more spotlight time
Ferrus is in my top 3 favs. Because I imagine more of him than we have been given.
Great video, I don’t like how the Iron Hands and Ferrus are so under written in the Lore. I hope you make more videos of both in the future.
So sad seeing him die so fast, and we got almost nothing of him to see even in all the other books so far. But still the duel with Fulgrim was epic and heartbreaking.
Primarch size seems to vary somewhat due to the many authors involved in the Warhammer franchise as well as the fact that the HH series has been going on for what, 20 years?
If there was ever a live action series, I would make it a point to flesh out Ferrus a bit more as a character. To really make us feel the weight of his loss.
I actually think that a certain big headed arch magos that’s had the remaining research into primarch project for 10,000 years may or may not be trying to resurrect or clone his own primarch
Cawl is a son of Ferrus?
@@kuinuth I think he meant a primarch of his own.
@@Scufflegrit well
Well it could be that he’s working with a certain chaos surgeon who ALSO messed with the primarch project and has met and dealt with a certain trazyn the infinite. Bile was with fulgrim when the he killed and ripped apart ferrus. he is a apothecary who knows where gene seed are found within a body.
@@kuinuth well he’s an arch magos, not an astartes. Clearly OP didn’t mean to infer Cawl bore any geneseed, context clues make the meaning pretty clear.
Keep working at English, you’ll master it eventually.
Ferrus: Meets Vulcan.
Ferrus: Invents the Rubicon Primaris
Been waiting so long for another Ferrus Manus video. I absolutely enjoy anything you do on him and other primarchs.
Imagine a khorne worshipping ferrus..
I didn’t think Khorne the type to worship anyone.
Excellent video and kudos for such a good production.
I've been a sub for long enough that you have a soft spot for anything related to 40k you wholesome son of a gun
He was the first Forgeworld model I got and his hammerswing pose is just perfect. Can you imagine getting hit by Forgebreaker swung by Ferrus Manus?
let’s ask falgrium
Loosing Ferrus that early in the Heresy was a huge loss to not only the loyalist but also his legion. I feel like if he has survived we would've seen some epic moments of him handing the traitors some serious ass whooping. Remember, Horus spoke very highly of Ferrus's ability at war. So we never got to see how much of what Horus spoke of was true.
You are definitely right about Vulkan being the tallest primarch, that seems standard in all other material
What I would be curious about is how his Chapter currently remembers and recounts that period of time in their own lore. I want to see more of the Iron Hands in 40K in the current "Indomitus Era" and what they are doing in the Imperium Nihilus - especially how they are taking the pronouncement of Dante as Lord Regent there over that whole half of the galaxy.
I think they'd find it fine since the Blood angels also lost their Primarch when facing Horus
I loved the novel FULGRIM,lovely to the point I read it to destruction TWICE,I'm now on my third copy.
Great video as alwayz brother 🩸🤘🏻
I just wish ferrus and the iron hands got more love
3:57 I guess Vulkan is the CURRENT tallest primarch as Ferrus is no longer ... "A head" of the competition
Ferrus gets slept on alot but that's because he died early in the Heresy and hope we see more Great Crusade stuff with him and others who didn't get the love during the Heresy.
Back a long time ago, I really didn't like Ferrus and his Sons... then I decided to make a homebrew 26th Founding Chapter of Iron Hands descent and read the few times he appeared in novels of the Heresy... and I think he's my second favorite Primarch after Russ. I'm so sad the Gorgon fell so early in the Heresy :(
By having Ferrus pushing further. The ambush on Istvan failed and gave the loyalist legion room to manuver out of the killbox and hijack the ships so they could leav Istvan 5.
If they all fell back , it would have been even more cramped and the killbox would have been way more effektiv, i think perturabo planned it.
But ferrus died, corax fled and vulkan was missing,(taken hostage). Remaining loyalists went to deliverence, mcragge, or continued to fight against the deathguards and calas typhus where jaghatai khan found them.
Magnus was the Tallest Primarch, followed by Ferrus and then Vulkan. Magnus being the tallest only because he can use the same Biomancy warp magic that the emperor can, thus make himself be perceived as the gigant cyclopean.
damn, I feel exactly the same about Ferrus.
Was truly devastated reading Fulgrim.
Iron Hands have strange allure for me, as I am appreciator of working with metal, hi-tech and curious about bionic technologies.
Remembre they dropped something close to a nuke on Vulkan. If Ferrus had regrouped with his brothers there's a good chance his not-a-perpetual self would have died in that moment.
Anyone else think that ferrus could be one of the imortal primarchs bearing in mind gorgans were predominantly imortal even though medusa was killed her head still had power and the reason his enemies seperated his body when he fell was to stop him rising, and maybe the artifacts guilliman keeps sending groups into the eye of terror for are the Gorgon's.
Ferrus wasn't blind, no. He was a logical thinker and commander. He saw reinforcements coming and took the initiative to keep the traitors occupied. He loved Fulgrim very much. I couldn't imagine having to be in that position and not become filled with rage.
The Gorgon became my first FW Primarch purchase after reading his Primarchs novel. I related to his temper and constant headaches on such a personal level (I have a chronic pain condition) that I had to own him.
YES RHO!
Let's not forget that the Iron on is arm mess with is head (if I remember correctly, it's a Necron metal or something like that). Love this Primarch, it great to have the book on him of the Primarch series. Still hoping to see a return of him in the current lore, a prefect copy of him made by Fabius.
I recently watched a video that was an overview of the whole dropsite massacre and it put a lot of things in perspective about the flawed tactics of Ferrus/Loyalists. First nobody on the loyalist side thought it was suspicious that the traitors declared themselves as such and decided to just hold up on an unimportant world with no fleet in sight which should have thrown up huge red flags.
Why would Horus not have a fleet in the system? Why would he declare himself in opposition to the imperium and strand himself on a planet?
Second, going in to face them at all before reinforcements could arrive was significantly strategically unsound. Not only is it HORUS but there were multiple Primarchs on the surface and to engage them without every single advantage on your side is to give them the advantage and risk devastation. They should not have gone to the surface with total assurance that their allies were right beside them and not "On the way". Again these are Primarchs and Astartes and to underestimate is utter idiocy.
Thirdly, the loyalist inability to "worse case scenario" the Traitors situation doomed them greatly. Angron and Mortarion were understandable in going traitor but once Horus and Fulgrim fell than the loyalist should have been more suspicious of legions like The Nights lords or word bearers. Maybe not the Iron Warriors or Alpha legion were too obvious but the capacity for more duplicity should have been seriously considered before engaging the traitors. Horus would never pick a fight he couldn't win and he wouldn't fight 7 whole legions if he didn't have a plan to deal with them. At should have been obvious from this information to three genius primarchs that Horus had more up his sleeve than a simple siege in mind. They were walking into a death trap and it was obvious if you thought about it long enough.
The best case scenerio in my mind is to probably quarantine the planet/system, find the traitor fleet, destroy it, and siege horus from orbit. Worst case scenerio exterminatus the planet.
You're correct. A cold hard logic requires a level of intensity. Ferrus falling back ensures everyone dies. Fulgrim either dies or becomes apparent he's a demon as well. If he fell back no loyalist gets off Isstavan.
His selfish choice, was only selfish in the fact he was going to finish the game and not let the relief pitcher do it. Which ironically would have tanked the game.
His desire to settle the score with his beother ensures 1 gets off planet, and the other is captured.
If theyd made a last stand, would probably be 2 dead primarchs, not 3. Remember that vulcan cannot die by conventional means
Will Dante for example go to each of the Chapter homeworlds in the IH like Medusa and tell them to build worlds worthy of the Emperor? WIll what he is doing on Baal be replicated across the Imperium Nihilus? Shining beacons in the vast darkness...
I think that Ferrus was equal in size and strength to Vulkan. Namely because most primarchs seemed to have a physical size and strength as well as tactical analogue to themselves. We see a physical similarity with Mortarion and Fulgrim with great height, but also thin figure for a primarch. We don't see a similar build to Vulkan with most any other primarch so I am guessing that Ferrus Manus would be that one.
Just found out that his name translates to "Iron Hand", "Ferrous" meaning Iron and "Manus" refers to the hand or wrist
Haven't read the book in quite a while your analysis seems spot on based on what I remember, may need to read it again, and by the way I agree with the 1st commentator, he's taller than Vulkan? My silly guess for that scene is that Ferrus was wearing some kind of elevated footwear, ( especially since he knew he was going to be around Vulkan ), and Vulkan was wearing a flatter style thus the height difference.
Babe wake up Wolf Lord Rho is talking about Ferrus Manus again
wow ur viewership numbers are consistent
Have we had a glorious Manus Week yet?
Still of the hope that he could be the 1st and only DreadMarch. ,(Primarch Dreadnaught).
And now his legion are some of the most batshit crazy marines of all the loyalists.
Blinded by rage and ego.
The Warmaster was counting on Ferrus rage calculating that it would not blind his tactical acumen but it would blind him personally allowing Fulgrim to remove him from the equation. Remember Horus wanted Ferrus on his side to begin with and Fulgrim was convinced he could sway him to the Warmasters cause
Like father like son, Shadraak let’s his temper overwhelm him to his ultimate demise. I think that’s y the iron hands shun emotion
So WOLF LORD RHO. I think an Iron Hands Week would give you a great opportunity to explore Ferrus and the Iron Hands in depth. I agree Ferrus is an underrated primarch. I would like to learn more about his sons, both from the past and in the present. I always thought that Ferrus was one of the biggest and strongest primarchs. Second only to Vulcan. The stereotype of the blacksmith, which is that of a big gruff SOB, fits Ferrus perfectly. He made both Fulgrims and Lorgars weapons. He has a great friendship with Vulcan due to their love of blacksmithing. I think it would be a great swerve to bring back Ferrus somehow. Remember he is one of the Dauntless few that Robute praised. All hail the Raven Lord. All hail Corvus Corax.
meh he clearly isn’t the best primarch has to be kornald curze he’s just unbeatable even against the lion he survived.
@@frost5182 To be honest, I will take any Primarchs and their legions. I wish GW would give more love to the Iron Hands, the Salamanders, and the Raven Guard (My favorite legion). With their Legions taken out so early in the Horus Heresy, their legions have never been fully fleshed out. The Salamanders might be more fleshed out than the Raven Guard and Iron Hands but I believe that is due to Vulcan pretty much, being universally beloved. Kayvaan Shrike and 'Kardan Stronos have no where the name recognition of someone like Dante or Calgar. Even Tu'shan is more recognized than Shrike and Stronos. But when it comes to the Primarchs and theie legions, Ill read and listen to any lore related topics.
Fulgrim is such a great book
The Iron Hands story is the saddest of all the loyalists. I wish there was a IH successor chapter that followed the ideological lineage of Ferrus and Shadrack instead of everyone JUST going for the "flesh is weak".
It would be interesting to see how such a successor chapter would justify not following the flesh is weak.
@@shadoll7856 true! They'd either have to be a 2nd founding one who directly served under Medusson or one that found some of Ferrus's writings on his beliefs on not focusing on becoming machine.
Alright, time's up, let's do this...
Corax may be the most submissive, in terms of command of all his brothers. He was the one that considered relinquishing his command of the raven guard. He was the one most likely to give field command to one of his more tactical brothers. Had he been replaced by someone else - The lion, Dorn or Guilliman. They would most likely have rejected Ferrus hasty decision to attack, and the heresy could have had a completely different trajectory.
I'm not sure it would have been that different. The speed of Ferrus attack wasn't the issue it was the reinforcing 4 legions turning out to be traitors that made it so messy. The 3 loyal legions would still have been outnumbered by more than double. I don't think Corax is really that submissive either he just wouldn't have been seeking command of this sort of battle because it didn't fit RG tactics. He actually refused to ever serve alongside Horus prior to the Heresy because he ordered the RG into a pointless frontal assault that got lots of them killed in an earlier campaign. If anything Ferrus choice to strike fast is right in the RG tactics book so Corvus probably agreed with him.
@@Verity98765 The First Axiom of Victory is to be other than where the enemy desire you to be - if Corax held true to his own words, he wouldn't have made a direct assault like that. But he did anyways, for the sake of compliance to Ferrus. I still think Corax was the weak link, he would later learn from this mistake which is why he refused Dorns request to muster the remnants of his forces to Terra.
It is straight up bad writing that Corax didn't pause for a moment and think through the possibilities.
*softly sobbing*
t-the flesh is.. weak...
I do not think Ferrus Manus was in the wrong. The only tragedy of this is he did not know their reinforcements were traitors.
Ferrus may be angry, and thirsting for vengeance and I can relate. But given the knowledge of Angron and Curz being traitors as well his logic would have prevailed in all three surviving the event had they also known they wouldn't win this conflict.
Iron hands content!!!!
A rarity indeed
Angron takes offense to Ferrus’ rage. He is the one and only rage-monster…
I hope one day we get an Iron Hands week.
Even if he didn't charge in. Horus would've made sure that ferrus wouldn't leave that planet alive. He considered the iron tenth to have been critical factor in his insurrection if he was able to turn him.
Ten companies of Iron Hands veterans with Ferrus would be around 10k marines including heavy armor etc. One big question thats been nagging me is, what happened to the other 100k or so iron hands? We know a bunch more that arrived behind ferrus at Istvaan V got ambushed by the traitors, but what about the others? Even if 50k got ambushed that would leave another 40 to 50k unaccounted for. Where were the rest of them during the Scouring?
Basically Shattered Legions. There are Horus Heresy novels talking about some of them. Always it's like that - big group of Iron Hands with some tiny squads from Raven Guard and Salamanders trying to disrupt traitors' supply lines as much as they can which was actually kind of effective and was slowing them down giving other loyalists more time to prepare and get to Terra. Unfortunately many of those storie although not all of them have Iron Hands basically hating and blaming Raven Guard and Salamanders for their primarch's death which is quite dumb.
@Visor3410 this is true. Autek Mor had 5000 iron hands as part of his force that exterminatus'd Bodt. Shadrak Meduson had his lot. And there were others. But that still leaves over 50k unaccounted for ... you think there's legion remnants still moving around in m41?
@@Fatties09 I read all those books quite a long time ago and although I have a good memory I don't remember the initial numbers of Iron Hands Legion. Was it really 100k? Also the way a lot of this lore is just unexplored the writers probably imply that the rest of this legion were just fighting behind enemy lines and were ultimately destroyed. Otherwise we would have also a lot of Iron Hands 2nd Founding Chapters.
@Visor3410 yeah horus heresy book 2: massacre details the iron hands at 113k. If one company was 1000 at the time with 10k to a chapter, that leaves 103k that ferrus left behind and then a portion of that 103k did arrive at istvaan but got hit by the traitors hard after the initial ambush and ferrus' death. The other portions after istvaan v are sort of unaccounted for which is where I'm getting that 40 or 50k from.
@@Fatties09 Good to know :) Then I hope the Scouring series will clear some of it up.
Ferrus made an overall sound tactical disposition in the Battle of Istvan 5. He was undone by two factors; believing utterly in the Loyalty of the other 4 legions and Underestimating Horus.
If the 4 next legions had stayed Loyal, the powerful frontal assault would have won the day. But he might have guessed, that Horus could have foreseen such a situation.
A brilliant general might have reasoned out, that a general of Horus's skill would not have played the battle the way he did without a secret ace. And that is Ferrus's only real military mistake.
Judging from all the opinions that other primarchs had of Horus this realization didn't require being a brilliant general but just common sense. That could be why Dorn was so adamant about attacking once all the forces have gathered in big numbers.
@@Visor3410 Why I belive that it would take serious generalship to figure that out, is because predicting the False loyalty of Perturabo, Alpharius and especially Lorgar would be a longshoot. Even Dorn 100% believed in Lorgars loyalty.
The best Primarch!
I haven't listened to your stuff in a while, Rho. But you know, I was looking through the local geek shop, and while I am far too cheap to buy some GW stuff right now, I too have a little place in my heart for the Iron Hands and Ferrus Manus. And there's nothing modern in the models for these guys I am intrigued by. But I want to see my metal boys, and get an army with some heavy artillery so I can hopefully do something about those Necrons. The Emperor Protects.
A primark I've little knowledge of!
You might say he got ahead of himself when he let his anger get the better of him
We need more iron man lore
Ferrus believed it would be 7 against 4 in his favour.
Rule one, expect the unexpected.
I to really like Ferrus Manus. I am under the impression that the Gorgon was such a huge threat that the whole point of Istavaan V was to disable or kill the Iron Hands and Vulcan and Corax were just bonuses. There are several characters that unnecessarily catch a bad rap and are overly simplified. I think people like to say the most obvious direct thing about characters to act like they know about them.
His cheering yes makes sense, hes angry and want to hit the traitors, and backup being mere hours away means launching makes good sense, fight for a few hours and hold the enemy in fixed lines, allowing the arriving forces to land forcee and join in....... shame the backup was the other sides backup....
None of the heavy strategic hitters were on Istvaan. Just how facking Horus planned it.
Furious Manus.
The problem is that him as a hero/ "the good guy" blindly chasing Fulcrim is just as pantomime as the movie villain who elaborates/ monologues on his scheme/ plan/ plot. You'd expect a genetically engineered super- tactian to notice that and act accordingly.
Authors do FM no favors. Why assume the reinforcements aren’t traitors when facing Horus or at least be more careful. Where was the void fight? 4 legions on planet, where are their fleets?
"And just a side-note here. Ferrus is described as being a head taller than his brothers"
Oh well... :P
Betrayal is Betrayal
Was Ferris rash and emotional towards the end? Yes. Would it have changed him dying or how he died if he wasn't? Probably. But it wouldn't change his defeat.
The issue with betrayal is that no matter what your tactics or planning, unless you have information of betrayal you will more than likely succumb to it. Knowledge is power and betrayal is typically an unknown that you may not even conceive to plan around.
Waiting or not, the 3 loyalist we're outnumbered and had lost once the trap was sprung.
Lastly... Rho! You have a soft spot for Manus?!?!? 🤣🤣🤣 You have a soft spot for every loyalist Primarch. 😂 . You said that like you hold some type of disdain for any loyalist Primarch at all. You're funny. Lol!
Manus lives
on your point of if they had re-joined we probably would of had three dead Primark's I have to make a correction it would have maybe left two dead Primark's & a captured Vulcan because of his perpetual nature
He was not strong enough to defeat fate no matter which part he played in the story his emotions overcame him and it caused his death whether it would have been here or somewhere else. The tale of him is the irony of becoming more machine than man and had he been more machine he probably was not as emotions get better but he's human get it ? It's an old story logic over emotion , will he return?
They should've waited for Lion.
It's odd that nobody ever considers that a unified last stand by Ferrus, Corax and Vulcan could have very easily crippled the traitor legions. Certainly in hindsight, the three legions were all but ruined by Isstvan regardless so they should have made the traitors pay a far higher price for the victory. I understand that people are inclined to argue that Corax did the right thing by preserving himself but certainly the more noble option would have been to cripple the heresy and die a hero. Honestly, matyr Ferrus seems far more plausible than vengeance Ferrus.