Love your dog, he listened so patiently to your rules explanation. Even held himself back from licking your face lol, good boy! Insightful review as usual, also love your Podcast recently! ❤
this game is a fantastic solo puzzle. you didnt mention the mission cards that an extra layer of decisions and difficulty adjustment. one of the best features of the game is the ability to cater the difficulty to your preference.
Hidden movement games are the, no pun intended, hidden gems of my board game collection. Letters from Whitechapel, Mind MGMT, Beast, and Fury of Dracula are almost always recommended to play. Not that we do play them all the time, but people always want to see them tabled.
I love the look and sound of this. Im still curious how it would play as a 1v1 cat and mouse game. We quite enjoyed Not Alone as a 2 pkayer game, but obviously this has much more going on.
Great explanation of how the game does better than other hidden movement. We used to play the bioterroist pandemic expansion and it was always lopsided. With our group of veterans the bio was not even a threat. With the less experienced group the bio had to basically throw the game by trying to make themselves interesting, but not too hard, to catch.
My wife and I are playing it on BGA, since the EN version is rather hard to find in EU at the moment. Great game! We already ordered an additional copy for our friends who are actual pilots.
I loved the review! Your overall assessment is spot-on, IMHO. Though I have one nitpick and one minor quasi-correction. 1) Quasi correction: Toward the end, when discussing player count, you mentioned how two players controlling the Heroes is "awkward" because one player controls two Heroes while the other controls one. But that's not what the rules suggest. So, for the benefit of lurkers here, the rules suggest that one player control one Hero each, while the third Hero is controlled co-operatively by both players. This method goes a long way to removing any sort of "awkwardness". 2) Nit-pick. I would label this as a "Programmed Movement" game instead of a "Hidden Movement". That's because in a classic hidden movement game, the characters remain hidden after they move. In other words, the character's location generally remains unknown without applying deduction or other clues. Whereas with a Programmed Movement game, the programming is usually done in secret (such as with 'Trickerion', which is NOT a hidden movement game), but the character's location is always known. And that's what's happening here. Each Hero's location is known before it moves, and it's known after it moves. Thus, not hidden movement. I'm only being pedantic about this in case there are players out there who may pass on this game for not liking hidden movement games. That'd be a shame then to pass on THIS game as it doesn't share any characteristic of the typical hidden movement genre.
This and Beast were Kickstarter campaigns that gave me the most trouble cause I was interested in both but had the money for only one. I ended up going with Beast because I love drafting and the theme draws me in more. I get the criticisms, but I can easily look past them. I don't regret my purchase at all. That being said, I'm wondering if this game can still live alongside beast since I saw it on Amazon for a decent price, and I still really like the Steampunk Victorian theme it's got going on.
Great game choice! I got to learn about this one at paxeast and I can’t wait to eat it one day! Big fan of your constant jumping around to different angles, costumes, mid plays scenes and your dog! Very entertaining!
Just played this for the first time. The hidden role aspects of this is unlike anything else I've played before. It is a very interesting puzzle and mind game. If only it had not taken us almost four hours to play one game. Two hours would have been way better.
As an avid "Not Alone" player (that's a game title, i'm not saying i play not alone lol), it feels really weird for the Solo player to be able to listen to the discussion the Many are having BUT them also being able to show and talk about specific locations in secret. In Not Alone ALL information is open, you can of course tell the other players that you are going to go to the Rover, but it has no meaning since if that was true the Alien could just go there, so it must have been a bluff.... or was it? Maybe you were planning that the alien didn't believe you and then went specifically there because you said it.
It's not actually a hidden movement game though? It's simultaneous/hidden action selection. This game is sort of bigger Not Alone game with its one-vs-many approach.
Right, I think of hidden movement as keeping the opponent from knowing where you are as long as possible, while in CotGM everyone sees what everyone else does, every turn. It does have some of the same feeling though, in that the Great Machine wins all direct confrontations. It wants to track down the revolutionaries and they do not want to run into its servants.
Great review, love that you compared objectively to beast and mind mgmt. As someone who can't afford every game I want (which would be hundreds) it's nice to be able to compare similar games. My question is: hav you played Letters from Whitechapel? If so, how would it compare to that? Thanks!
This review mentions that the game is more reminiscent of social deduction/bluffing games than other hidden movement games and as soon as I hear that I have a question: How does the game hold up to someone (or in this case as many as 3 someones) who genuinely has no plan? It seems like a lot of social deduction games (even the good ones) break down when even one player decides not to "buy in" to attempting a logical path and plan. Ideally a game would punish a player who isn't really thinking about their decisions but having them lose, but social deduction games this also usually brings down the whole group. Even their opponent players may not benefit from "monkey on a typewriter" player because it makes them impossible to predict without making them significantly hobbled in achieving their goal. I wonder if City of the Great Machine manages to hamstring someone who isn't "really trying" hard enough to no let mad blundering be a viable path to victory.
This is my opinion after 2 plays, so take it for what it is. The revolutionaries are making progress really really slowly and the game is on a clock (the last city even is always clockwork which helps the great machine rack up his master plan). It really feels in our playthrough that we lacked a cohesive plan and were trying to be 3 independant cell. It workes only so far. I even tried to do "random" assault a few times to throw off the great machine. It works, but it barely advanced our end game. Ultimately, it depends on player skill and learning the game, but it does really feel like the revolutionary needs to work hard to overthrow the great machine. Which adds to the feeling of a revolution. Some random chaos can work in a vacuum but i cant see the revolutionary winning on the long run without somewhat of a plan and chohesive play. It might even give that/these player a sense of hopelessness
I don't suppose you've tried the Dead by Daylight board game, have you? I haven't played it myself, but it seems like a very similar setup (1 killer hunting down 4 survivors who move by playing cards face-down), only a bit on the lighter side.
I actualy thought about DbD too when I've seen "simultanious selection" of movement. And yeah, DbD is kinda similar with its movement+1vsMany action, but yeah, its definetly more lighter game even feeling-wise - in DbD killer is a single (most of the time) miniature that travel around board, there is no map-manipulation with moving pieces and managment of multiple agents and guards. And... IDK, I don't have played CotGM yet, but I loved DbD and I think that this time lighter side of it actualy enhance it, because its just fun cat-and-mouse stuff with interesting abilities on a characters, because what I loved about DbD is that while base of a game is pretty simple and easy, its fun how each character give you some tools to change different parts of it, so each killer would feel unique and, what is more interesting, survivors too - I was afraid that they gonna have a minor difference and feel the same, but in the end many of them actualy plays different. And killers are just fun, how each ability and uniques create different tactics. And if you count that you could even play "draft" when you could get different abilities on characters... So yeah, CotGM looks great and I want to try it, but I think that DbD is an amazing party-social-movement-stuff game with easy rules and a lot of variations (and even maps give you some level of customization, while they are, again, mechanicly the same - their layout could be really interesting too)
I have a new all in copy of this I was ready to sell, and now you've simultaneously increased it's market value and made me less likely to sell it.. Have you heard of or tried the Dead by Daylight board game? It's got the same 1vAll (all hiding from the 1) dynamic of City of the Great Machine but plays in less than an hour and I've introduced it to both casual and hardcore board gamers with great success (as long as it's played at exactly 3 players). It's the reason I was about to sell this, but you've made me second guess selling before I give it a try!
Interesting that you praise the non-logicy social deductionish stuff, I'm the exact opposite, both my favorite hidden movement game (mind mgmt) and my prefered social deduction game (Blood on the Clocktower), are almost entirely logicial.
Seems to me like a more complex game with similar core to Not alone, it might be cool. Not alone, in my opinion, is broken because there is no meaningful way for the team to comunicate.
@@JacobLikesMusic which is specifically what i like about it, so hearing that the Many are allowed to talk in secret about specific locations in here definitely feels weird, but might work for a very different game as it is
Oh yes, as one of your Ukrainian subscribers, I can't be more happy that your channel is reviewing a game designed by a russian author and published by a russian company. Nice job! While the russian attacks keep hitting peaceful Ukrainian citizen (and board gamers among them), the money you get from CrowdGames for this review don't smell bad, that's for sure.
Hello, I'd like to address a couple of things here. First of all, we get no money from CrowD games or any board game publisher. Our channel has a proud nine year long history of not accepting money from publishers, and also being quite vocal about it. I'd like to correct another thing in your comment too. From my understanding, CrowD games is a company based in the United States, so I don't think any money will go towards the war machine from sales of this board game, despite the designer being Russian. I also think that it's very obvious where this game stands politically, and I feel quite comfortable speaking about it. Finally, if you'd like to know a little bit about my personal feelings about Russian politics, you are welcome to watch a video where I talk about its long standing impact on my own country ua-cam.com/video/VQuFSxs9VXA/v-deo.html or, to sum it up, as someone who's from a country who is literally next on Russia's chopping block - I AM NOT A FAN.
This is clearly a difficult topic and I had similar concerns initially. Thanks Efka for sharing the link to your video on colonialism. I didn’t know the video before, great work and you made your views pretty clear ! It seems that CrowD Games has a legal entity both in the US and in Russia (where it seems to localize games for many western publishers including MindClash or Eagle-Gryphon). The founder of CrowD Games (Maxim Istomin) seems to live now in Florida and seems to have both American and Russian citizenship. The key question for me is the views of the author or CrowD Games regarding the war in Ukraine. I searched for it but have not found any statements in this respect. If anyone has, please share a link.
@@a-c-m CrowD Games were pretty clear in one of their Kickstarter updates (for the other project that was active when this phase of war started): "We are against war, no matter how it’s called and what how it’s ‘justified’. We are confident that any threat to the lives of civilians and the civilian infrastructure is unacceptable. We hope that this situation will be resolved as soon as possible, and nothing will threaten the lives of the people. Our team is big and works from all around the world, and some of our colleagues live and work in Ukraine. Our hearts and our thoughts are with them, and with millions of people who have to face these horrific events."
@@NoPunIncluded I'm getting back to this pretty late, but thank you for your position! One thing is that CrowdGames still has a russian branch, and that branch does pay taxes to their government. This means, while they might be moral and not support wars in general, part of their money still goes to the russian budget, thus sponsoring the production of missiles and guns, and salaries of their soldiers. That's it. Sadly, there are still many international retail companies who still value money over moral principles. I can only imagine what the British people would've said in the early 1940s if a US company still kept its branch in Germany and paid taxes to Hitler.
Love your dog, he listened so patiently to your rules explanation. Even held himself back from licking your face lol, good boy! Insightful review as usual, also love your Podcast recently! ❤
Thanks, we love our dog too! Will have to correct you a little bit, you got her pronouns wrong (no biggie).
@@NoPunIncluded Oh my bad, dog is a male word in German, brain malfunction haha
also a male word in Lithuanian! I feel your pain.
this game is a fantastic solo puzzle. you didnt mention the mission cards that an extra layer of decisions and difficulty adjustment. one of the best features of the game is the ability to cater the difficulty to your preference.
It seems inspired, or an evolution, of “Not Alone“
This is where my mind was at, which is great because I adore that game
I really should have looked for this comment before I wrote pretty much the exact same thing. 😁
Hidden movement games are the, no pun intended, hidden gems of my board game collection. Letters from Whitechapel, Mind MGMT, Beast, and Fury of Dracula are almost always recommended to play. Not that we do play them all the time, but people always want to see them tabled.
Its always awesome how you do these videos. Its just so entertaining!
I own two Hidden Movement games, this and Diabolique, and I think that really covers everything I want out of the genre.
but theres Letters from Whitechappel ;)
Please compare and contrast the feelings you get from playing Treasure Island and this game. Thank you for a great review!
I love the look and sound of this. Im still curious how it would play as a 1v1 cat and mouse game.
We quite enjoyed Not Alone as a 2 pkayer game, but obviously this has much more going on.
It's a Wonderful World also rocks the steampunk+ vibes masterfully, but with an engine building game instead of hidden traitor worker movement.
Great explanation of how the game does better than other hidden movement. We used to play the bioterroist pandemic expansion and it was always lopsided. With our group of veterans the bio was not even a threat. With the less experienced group the bio had to basically throw the game by trying to make themselves interesting, but not too hard, to catch.
My wife and I are playing it on BGA, since the EN version is rather hard to find in EU at the moment. Great game! We already ordered an additional copy for our friends who are actual pilots.
I loved the review! Your overall assessment is spot-on, IMHO. Though I have one nitpick and one minor quasi-correction.
1) Quasi correction: Toward the end, when discussing player count, you mentioned how two players controlling the Heroes is "awkward" because one player controls two Heroes while the other controls one. But that's not what the rules suggest. So, for the benefit of lurkers here, the rules suggest that one player control one Hero each, while the third Hero is controlled co-operatively by both players. This method goes a long way to removing any sort of "awkwardness".
2) Nit-pick. I would label this as a "Programmed Movement" game instead of a "Hidden Movement". That's because in a classic hidden movement game, the characters remain hidden after they move. In other words, the character's location generally remains unknown without applying deduction or other clues. Whereas with a Programmed Movement game, the programming is usually done in secret (such as with 'Trickerion', which is NOT a hidden movement game), but the character's location is always known. And that's what's happening here. Each Hero's location is known before it moves, and it's known after it moves. Thus, not hidden movement.
I'm only being pedantic about this in case there are players out there who may pass on this game for not liking hidden movement games. That'd be a shame then to pass on THIS game as it doesn't share any characteristic of the typical hidden movement genre.
Good points!
interesting point. In that case Not Alone would be programmed movement too, and it is the sole reason i was so interested in CotGM in the first place
This and Beast were Kickstarter campaigns that gave me the most trouble cause I was interested in both but had the money for only one. I ended up going with Beast because I love drafting and the theme draws me in more. I get the criticisms, but I can easily look past them. I don't regret my purchase at all.
That being said, I'm wondering if this game can still live alongside beast since I saw it on Amazon for a decent price, and I still really like the Steampunk Victorian theme it's got going on.
Great game choice! I got to learn about this one at paxeast and I can’t wait to eat it one day!
Big fan of your constant jumping around to different angles, costumes, mid plays scenes and your dog! Very entertaining!
Honestly I really enjoy playing the recruiter in mind mgmt, it's tense the whole way through.
I will always think mixing minis and wooden meeples looks super goofy, but what a killer concept
wow yeah you're right! there's something very goofy about that. but also, this game needs 'goofy.'
This reminds me of a more intricate Not Alone. Am I wrong in that?
Grant Lee Buffalo’s sophomore album in the background….very cool
Another excellent review: wonderfully expressing the 'feel' of _City of the Great Machine_ .
Have you played _Bloc by Bloc_ - a quite different game!
Good lord, that dog can act.
Just played this for the first time. The hidden role aspects of this is unlike anything else I've played before. It is a very interesting puzzle and mind game. If only it had not taken us almost four hours to play one game. Two hours would have been way better.
As an avid "Not Alone" player (that's a game title, i'm not saying i play not alone lol), it feels really weird for the Solo player to be able to listen to the discussion the Many are having BUT them also being able to show and talk about specific locations in secret. In Not Alone ALL information is open, you can of course tell the other players that you are going to go to the Rover, but it has no meaning since if that was true the Alien could just go there, so it must have been a bluff.... or was it? Maybe you were planning that the alien didn't believe you and then went specifically there because you said it.
It's not actually a hidden movement game though? It's simultaneous/hidden action selection. This game is sort of bigger Not Alone game with its one-vs-many approach.
Right, I think of hidden movement as keeping the opponent from knowing where you are as long as possible, while in CotGM everyone sees what everyone else does, every turn. It does have some of the same feeling though, in that the Great Machine wins all direct confrontations. It wants to track down the revolutionaries and they do not want to run into its servants.
Great review, love that you compared objectively to beast and mind mgmt. As someone who can't afford every game I want (which would be hundreds) it's nice to be able to compare similar games. My question is: hav you played Letters from Whitechapel? If so, how would it compare to that? Thanks!
I think Letters from Whitechapel is the posterchild of "playing the hidden is dull" of hidden movement games.
🐕! ! !
Shots fired at Collin
thanks for being alive man 🥲
This review mentions that the game is more reminiscent of social deduction/bluffing games than other hidden movement games and as soon as I hear that I have a question: How does the game hold up to someone (or in this case as many as 3 someones) who genuinely has no plan? It seems like a lot of social deduction games (even the good ones) break down when even one player decides not to "buy in" to attempting a logical path and plan. Ideally a game would punish a player who isn't really thinking about their decisions but having them lose, but social deduction games this also usually brings down the whole group. Even their opponent players may not benefit from "monkey on a typewriter" player because it makes them impossible to predict without making them significantly hobbled in achieving their goal. I wonder if City of the Great Machine manages to hamstring someone who isn't "really trying" hard enough to no let mad blundering be a viable path to victory.
This is my opinion after 2 plays, so take it for what it is. The revolutionaries are making progress really really slowly and the game is on a clock (the last city even is always clockwork which helps the great machine rack up his master plan). It really feels in our playthrough that we lacked a cohesive plan and were trying to be 3 independant cell. It workes only so far. I even tried to do "random" assault a few times to throw off the great machine. It works, but it barely advanced our end game. Ultimately, it depends on player skill and learning the game, but it does really feel like the revolutionary needs to work hard to overthrow the great machine. Which adds to the feeling of a revolution. Some random chaos can work in a vacuum but i cant see the revolutionary winning on the long run without somewhat of a plan and chohesive play. It might even give that/these player a sense of hopelessness
I don't suppose you've tried the Dead by Daylight board game, have you? I haven't played it myself, but it seems like a very similar setup (1 killer hunting down 4 survivors who move by playing cards face-down), only a bit on the lighter side.
I actualy thought about DbD too when I've seen "simultanious selection" of movement. And yeah, DbD is kinda similar with its movement+1vsMany action, but yeah, its definetly more lighter game even feeling-wise - in DbD killer is a single (most of the time) miniature that travel around board, there is no map-manipulation with moving pieces and managment of multiple agents and guards. And... IDK, I don't have played CotGM yet, but I loved DbD and I think that this time lighter side of it actualy enhance it, because its just fun cat-and-mouse stuff with interesting abilities on a characters, because what I loved about DbD is that while base of a game is pretty simple and easy, its fun how each character give you some tools to change different parts of it, so each killer would feel unique and, what is more interesting, survivors too - I was afraid that they gonna have a minor difference and feel the same, but in the end many of them actualy plays different. And killers are just fun, how each ability and uniques create different tactics. And if you count that you could even play "draft" when you could get different abilities on characters... So yeah, CotGM looks great and I want to try it, but I think that DbD is an amazing party-social-movement-stuff game with easy rules and a lot of variations (and even maps give you some level of customization, while they are, again, mechanicly the same - their layout could be really interesting too)
A friend has mind mgmt and we've never beem able to play it. Hope to sooner than later
I have a new all in copy of this I was ready to sell, and now you've simultaneously increased it's market value and made me less likely to sell it..
Have you heard of or tried the Dead by Daylight board game? It's got the same 1vAll (all hiding from the 1) dynamic of City of the Great Machine but plays in less than an hour and I've introduced it to both casual and hardcore board gamers with great success (as long as it's played at exactly 3 players). It's the reason I was about to sell this, but you've made me second guess selling before I give it a try!
is "Scotland Yard" (Ravensburger) the mother of these games?
2013, what a year!
it's kinda funny that it's more work to say "M G M T" than "Management"
this has a fantastic look
I like this!
Thanks
I have no idea what the rules are because as soon as I see doggo I stop listening
MORE DOGGO PLEASE!
hug the dog :)
Interesting that you praise the non-logicy social deductionish stuff, I'm the exact opposite, both my favorite hidden movement game (mind mgmt) and my prefered social deduction game (Blood on the Clocktower), are almost entirely logicial.
I mean, I like those very much as well.
I was interested until you mentioned it's 3 hours long! I'll stick with Mind Mgmt.
So, basically, a worse Not Alone?
Seems to me like a more complex game with similar core to Not alone, it might be cool.
Not alone, in my opinion, is broken because there is no meaningful way for the team to comunicate.
@@JacobLikesMusic which is specifically what i like about it, so hearing that the Many are allowed to talk in secret about specific locations in here definitely feels weird, but might work for a very different game as it is
first
It would be a great review if it were not a russian game from russian publisher in 2023.
Oh yes, as one of your Ukrainian subscribers, I can't be more happy that your channel is reviewing a game designed by a russian author and published by a russian company. Nice job! While the russian attacks keep hitting peaceful Ukrainian citizen (and board gamers among them), the money you get from CrowdGames for this review don't smell bad, that's for sure.
Hello,
I'd like to address a couple of things here. First of all, we get no money from CrowD games or any board game publisher. Our channel has a proud nine year long history of not accepting money from publishers, and also being quite vocal about it.
I'd like to correct another thing in your comment too. From my understanding, CrowD games is a company based in the United States, so I don't think any money will go towards the war machine from sales of this board game, despite the designer being Russian.
I also think that it's very obvious where this game stands politically, and I feel quite comfortable speaking about it.
Finally, if you'd like to know a little bit about my personal feelings about Russian politics, you are welcome to watch a video where I talk about its long standing impact on my own country ua-cam.com/video/VQuFSxs9VXA/v-deo.html or, to sum it up, as someone who's from a country who is literally next on Russia's chopping block - I AM NOT A FAN.
This is clearly a difficult topic and I had similar concerns initially. Thanks Efka for sharing the link to your video on colonialism. I didn’t know the video before, great work and you made your views pretty clear !
It seems that CrowD Games has a legal entity both in the US and in Russia (where it seems to localize games for many western publishers including MindClash or Eagle-Gryphon). The founder of CrowD Games (Maxim Istomin) seems to live now in Florida and seems to have both American and Russian citizenship.
The key question for me is the views of the author or CrowD Games regarding the war in Ukraine. I searched for it but have not found any statements in this respect. If anyone has, please share a link.
@@a-c-m CrowD Games were pretty clear in one of their Kickstarter updates (for the other project that was active when this phase of war started): "We are against war, no matter how it’s called and what how it’s ‘justified’. We are confident that any threat to the lives of civilians and the civilian infrastructure is unacceptable. We hope that this situation will be resolved as soon as possible, and nothing will threaten the lives of the people.
Our team is big and works from all around the world, and some of our colleagues live and work in Ukraine. Our hearts and our thoughts are with them, and with millions of people who have to face these horrific events."
Bla bla bla.
@@NoPunIncluded I'm getting back to this pretty late, but thank you for your position! One thing is that CrowdGames still has a russian branch, and that branch does pay taxes to their government. This means, while they might be moral and not support wars in general, part of their money still goes to the russian budget, thus sponsoring the production of missiles and guns, and salaries of their soldiers. That's it. Sadly, there are still many international retail companies who still value money over moral principles. I can only imagine what the British people would've said in the early 1940s if a US company still kept its branch in Germany and paid taxes to Hitler.
Figured the channel would have a dog in a bandana as its machine overlord. 🥷 This also explains why the channel has issues with Calico.