What Marvel Rivals and Overwatch Can Learn From Each Other
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
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This is a really pivotal moment both for Marvel Rivals and for Overwatch. Rivals is clearly dominating right now, and Overwatch is very torn between it's past mistakes and present opportunities, which is only made harder by the division within it's community. The directions these games both take right now will structure the future of this genre as well as the battle for the hero shooter community.
While things like the second half of Marvel Rival's Season 1 as well as Overwatch's mysterious Overwatch Spotlight both dominate the stage right now, I want to focus as well on many aspects of these games that could easily benefit either game to a suprisingly effective level. I genuinly think if either game took some or even all of what I laid out here to heart and implemented these changes into their game, it would drastically pull me toward said game over the other. But as things stand, both games have a lot they could improve, and while I am having a ton of fun with both, these changes would make the experience so much better.
We will see where Overwatch goes with 6v6, 5v5, and even Role Que, as well as how Marvel Rivals treats their Open Que and Hero Ban systems, and speaking of heros, it will be interesting to see who focuses their efforts and exciting, fun, and well designed new heros and new maps, but for now, here are some things that could improve both games. Hope you enjoy.
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The big problem with team-ups in Marvel Rivals is that it creates expectations and balance problems that just... aren't necessary IMO. Of course, not all team-ups are created equal in this respect, some of the team ups are actually incredible design, while others are just... not.
Take Rocket and Bucky/Punisher's team-up. It's a flat statistical buff from Rocket to Bucky/Punisher, so that's a point loss right out of the gate, but it's also such a significant buff that the community assumption about Rocket Raccoon has become "the team-up bot for Bucky and Punisher". If you don't have Bucky or Punisher then your team doesn't want a Rocket, and that sucks, but because the team-up is so powerful they can't realistically buff rocket to make him feel better.
IMO the best team-up in the game is Hulk/Wolverine, hands down, because it's everything that Rocket/Bucky/Punisher isn't. There is no stat buff here, it's a pure playmaking tool that must be agreed upon by both parties involved. Both players have a hand in the outcome and quite frankly it's just a ton of fun for both players, but nobody is saying "We don't have a Hulk, why are you on Wolverine?.". Neither character depends on the team-up to be effective.
I think you're right on the money with this take. The design for some of the teamups really DOES feel like a "team up" by definition, while others just feel like buffs.
Also "If you don't have Bucky or Punisher then your team doesn't want a Rocket" is precisely part of the unhealthy aspect to teamups that I dislike. These characters all have applications outside of their teamups, but people will become married to the idea they only belong there when they have their partners
the ban list is more for varying the end game experience then for pure balance reasons.
it also makes more sense when you think about true competitive ((tourneys and the like)) and introducing bans into the culture makes it easier to transition to a tourney scene
Oh I understand this completely. I do enjoy the personal aspect to it where if I don't like a character, I can remove said character from the match entirely, but I am just saying I personally value player's ability to choose their hero over other players ability to un-choose said hero. It's really not a big deal either way though, just my minor hot-take.
I do think bans add a lot of depth to teamups at the very least, part of why I almost never get to play hulk, as his teamup is bonkers so he eats a ban every game.
I WOULD really appreciate maybe an overhaul to how bans work at least. Having 5 of my teammates vote for Luna just for the last guy to vote Magnito and have Magnito be the actual ban feels a bit wild
@@setomarie if youve played omega strikers, they have a system that accounts for simultaneous bans, which low key feels a lot better.
its a blind draw, and its only one ban per team, so you still allow flexibility, while heading off particular choies. ALTHOUGH in that game, there are also modifiers at the start of every match, so you KNOW someone is going to be OP ahead of time.
Ow devs should bring the end cards back with mvp so they wouldnt need to change anything about the potg system
I still cannot concieve why things people liked, like cards, were removed. I cannot remember anyone ever complaining about them once. Even in my video where I said they weren't super accurate to use as a metric of contribution, I still mentioned they were nice to thank your teammates. Bizzare thing to take out
From what i remember they said they removed it cause at the end of ow1 people didn't vote or used it(maybe bc ow1 had no content and died slowly and there were barely players so maybe that's why )
@@TheFBG123-r6d Wild. I still remember how jarring it was when OW2 first started coming out (It must have been the 1st open beta) and the end of games was so quick, no time for talking to anyone, nice or mean.
5:12 maybe like bomerang fu where it give titles to players based on how they played
That would be really, really cool. Awesome idea. If they got more creative than just "highest damage," I think this could really be a great addition. Maybe titles for having the most teammates saved, the most objective time, the most final blows, ya I 100% think endgame titles would be awesome
I wish Blizzard would bring back the notifications when you got fire, it made doing things much more satisfying and makes the fire system more clear.
Did they remove this? To be honest I may just check it so often I didn't notice the notificiation itself was gone. I guess I can check it later.
It MAY have been because of what I talked about in my 2nd fire meter video where I complained that hearing it go off so often was annoying, but if they way they fixed that was they turned off the notification rather than adjusting how often you get on fire... wow
@@setomarie My bad, I wasn't very specific. I meant the little number that used to pop up next to the action that got you fire and showed how much fire you got for each thing you did.
@@CanofSprats Ahhh yes. Oh i agree completely, this was a very nice and open way for them to show how the system worked.
Its almost like they were embarrassed by the fire system, which makes me really sad because whoever designed it did a fantastic job
I have over 10 hours in Rivals, and I still prefer Overwatch (to the point where I uninstalled MR, but because I was running out of space and couldn't have both at the same time).
While some issues are purely my own taste, with me disliking the 3rd person perspective, others are entirely objective: my low-end-ish PC can run OW at 60 fps consistently at a high quality, and it also struggles to reach 30 fps with the lowest settings in Rivals. MR also feels like a team-based game that hates team: the disproportionate amount of DPS compared to tanks and supports indirectly makes players go "nah, imma do my own thing," and run off without working together. Most of the hours I have in Rivals I had to play support in order to babysit 5 mediocre DPS players, and it wasn't fun. Another issue is that I feel that none of the tanks, my preferred role, in Rivals feel half as fun as the ones in OW: Hammond is geniunely one of the best designed characters in an FPS (in the sense that he's so fun to play as), and Rivals' closest aproximation to him, Venom, feels really clunky in comparison.
I like peni but I know what your saying. I think it’s hard to actually play as a team
That's 100% the reason I'm deeply concerned about Rivals' announcement that they're going to just be cranking out characters at a blistering pace. Original Overwatch took a long time to release heroes, but every time they released a new hero it was something *completely unlike anything else we had in the game already*. It wasn't until Overwatch 2 that we started getting a lot more "generic" (for lack of a better term) characters, as well as the team stripping away a lot of the gimmicks of existing characters to make them fit into a more standard mold. (Bastion going from the turret guy into "Soldier 76 but fat and with cooldowns", and Sombra becoming more of a traditional assassin.). I guess the best way to put it is the gimmicks got less gimmicky and I think that's a shame, because they had some really creative ideas that became staples of the genre.
I'm really hoping the optimization stuff comes with time. It's integral to every facet of playing the game, so it should be a major priority.
It is weird that they chose to go with more DPS given that was kind of a MISTAKE of Overwatch's back in the day, but maybe its just they feel most of their characters fit this design better? No idea
Also, being a dive-tank connoisseur, I think I'm going to address something akin to what you mentioned about venom vs Hammond in a future video. "Clunky" is right on the money, to say the least.
I think that’s a you problem tbh. If you’re struggling to get 30 frames then it’s simply a hardware issue. It’s an UNREAL ENGINE 5 game. If you don’t have the necessary components to run the game I wouldn’t be eager to play it either
i think team-ups would be way better of a feature if it had way more options. if every character can have a team-up with a third of the characters, that would just give way more variety and options for unique teams
I think you are actually on the money with this. If characters had a lot more teamups, it would be less the game saying "play this character with this one" and more like creatively piecing together YOUR specific team. Having just a few feels too simple and forced (again, don't hate it). It's almost the exact reason I like, like, Thor for example, because he is a part of 2 different teamup interactions. I think if there was even more, it would be great!
Good, good take
The mvp system in rivals just tracks who healbotted/tickled tanks the most. Final blows solo kill, death counts are all seemingly out of the calculation. While in overwatch at least you see a play that actually made an impact in a fight like at least 60% of the time
Deaths are 100% a part of the calculation. I watched on the score board as I became my team's Ace when a psylocke died while I was coming back from spawn. I haven't seen anything specific to final blows, but I suspect they're calculated too.
Obviously how heavy they're ranked is up for debate, but they are considered.
Never played ow, tried to after rivals feels like garbage went back
Love a more nuanced take. I will say, tracking player score is a mess over a total game. It would be so widely inaccurate. (tried tracking this for my own projects, but the variance in value between characters and what counts as value is so varied). Think this is just going to be used to hate on people on certain characters and some characters getting points more freely saying they were not the issue in every instance. Allow people to think for themselves on what stats mean, don't try and calculate it for people in a way that is inherently inaccurate.
I agree fully with team-up abilities. Forced synergy just increases toxicity in people demanding someone else swaps to a hero they might not want to play. For bans, I am unsure if it will be good or not. I am at the stage of, lets do an experiment with it, see how it feels and works.
I am absolutely comtrary on Hero bans and team ups. Hero bans absolutely should be implemented in Overwatch. In fact, Overwatch needs it more than Rivals does. Counterswapping would become nearly a myth with hero bans. Isn't that the worst thing in Overwatch? Now, Widow, the most anti fun character in Overwatch will be nonexistent in the lower ranks, and tanks can actually play the game in higher ranks. This system would change everything for the better. I just don't see an argument otherwise.
Now for team ups, I understand the complaint, but I feel like it is a great way to make some team comps and characters better. I don't think that they stifle creativity because I feel like people are still just as creative in how these characters are used, and a lot of the cool tricks, synergies, and combos have already been found out. Like using a bubble wirh Magneto to protect Cloak and Dagger during her ultimate or using a D.va shield on a high nooning Cassidy. Is it really creativity and ingenuity when those synergies are already so well known in the community? Fun plays can be made either way. Personally, I like what they can do for Overwatch.
Marvel Rivals needs to learn ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from Overwatch.
Unless you’re a sweaty tryhard, Rivals is perfection; and if you are a sweaty tryhard, just go play Overwatch, which y’all already turned into a sweaty tryhard game.
Lmao this is such a biased comment. Even the peak ow that won goty wasn't perfect and you are saying MR is perfect. Obnoxious level of glaze on a mediocre that is famous because ow sucks lmao
Overwatch is so easy to look at due to the stylized approach making it feel so much less... cumbersome. I dunno. Former Overwatch player who quit bc I hit GM1 and got bored of the grind bc I hit my goal. A bit biased but. Idk. Havent played it in ages.
"stylized approach making it feel so much less... cumbersome" can you elaborate on this phrase more, I am curious what you mean. But ya I agree 100% that its gotten a bit too easy. WIth there being 5 different t500 leaderboards because of roleq (including openq and combined) I can genuinly just waltz onto any of them at this point, which is even more surprising for like damage because I cant aim
@setomarie I really wish I had a better word for it. Maybe its just adjustment and skill issue since I havent played a shooter since last summer, but Marvel Rivals feels so much. Harder to see? It may not be objectively true, but the colors all feel much more muted and the maps have so much more detail beyond necessity branching into a more... cumbersome? amount of detail? I cant help but look at stuff I dont want to. Could be I didnt take my adderall any time I played but I was unmedicated until recently. Maybe that I'm just not used to the maps, heros, abilities, etc. But I felt like OW was so easy to quickly grasp and see whats happening even if it got insanely screen cluttered.
@@HarmonyThing Ahhh understood. Thank you for the clarification! Are you a fellow ADHDer? (I have no idea what to call us)
Ya that actually makes a lot of sense. Maybe it will come with familiarity like you mentioned. To me I really feel that when I am targetting someone. I swear half the cast has the exact same body type. Maybe that's why I feel like diving is harder at times with dive tanks?
13:38 I gotta disagree with this, you can legit do both in marvel rivals, use both team ups and synergies in game I see this all the time, and team ups do encourage different team comps which could lead to synergies not found.
great video! but hard disagree in the play of the game part
nope, marvel rivals should take nothing from overwatch
Rivals performance on pc is horrible
The fact that fps affects things like attack speed or dash distance still boggles my mind