"You wanna talk about losing people, cause I feel like Trunks would have some stories to tell. And i'm pretty sure they all end with "and then he died too". "
This is the book that really got me into the DC universe proper in comics, and made me really appreciate DC’s history and legacy. For that alone this book will always have a special place in my heart.
The Flash can run through time at any point, he just doesn't know where he'll end up!! The Cosmic Treadmill allows him to pick an actual destination in time!
Not really pertaining to the vid, but my Fiancee left me recently and if not for your videos I probably wouldn't be here. Your guy's jokes and knowledge help me through my days when they get the roughest. So thanks to all y'all at Comic pop. May the future bring many more great vids
I really feel my Favorite DC Stories Are Flash and Green Lantern. Thank you Comic PoP. You're amazing. Love Geoff's work. Professor Zoom is my absolute Favorite DC villain.
Sal gets it. This whole book is Geoff Johns jizzing over how great Barry is. It should be called Flash Rebirth ( the beginning of the end for Wally West)
Great episode and you guys are so hilarious. As much as I liked The Flash Rebirth I'm kinda annoyed that Johns tried to make Barry the most important speedster ever just because he loved the character when he was a kid (similiar to why Geoff Johns decided to make Hal Jordan the greatest GL ever). Its a shame that legacy characters such as Wally West, Cassandra Cain, or Kyle Rayner are either sidelined, misused or forgotten.
I feel Hal was different because Hal’s legacy had been ruined for years and he had been a big murder during a huge chunk in the 90s so I’m glad Hal was brought back. Wally on the other hand was at a great spot and Barry coming back was pretty unnecessary and kinda stopped Wally’s progression as a hero
I agree Tiffany, I grew up with Wally West Flash just like I grew up with John Stewart Green Lantern. I prefer both of them to their older counterparts (though I think Kyle Rainer conceptually makes more sense as a Green Lantern than the others). I don’t dislike Barry or Hal, but when they’re written in spite of Wally or John is when I have a problem. Wally gets no justice and John gets sidelined
Boy oh boy, does John get sidelined a lot. I jumped into comics only within the last few years and Green Lantern is my favorite book to read. There have been relatively few recent stories where John actually had an important role to play.
Bart was my first Flash and that was awkward when he dies after 13 issues. I don't like Barry because him coming back basically sidelines Wally. There was really no reason for him to come back. As for Hal, I just don't like Hal as a character. John is cool but I did prefer Kyle. Heck I'd take Guy over Hal. It's why I enjoyed Green Lantern Corp more than Green Lantern. There's more to the Green Lantern than Hal.
For me it’s Wally and Hal. John is fine and I love him in JL but I find him a bit too generic and find Hal far more interesting. Hal coming back made sense imo. Barry coming back, while a good character, was unnecessary and sidelines Wally going forward
I love wally family they were really awesome and tons of fun and it breaks my heart that wally's family is now gone while barry gets everything he wants wally west flash gets screwed over.
Barry has a whole new generation of fans now, so I won't begrudge them their enjoyment of the new Flash stories. But as someone who was reading Mark Waid's run and Geoff Johns' run before Johns returned to write this book, bringing Barry back still feels akin to bringing back Uncle Ben and making him the main character of the Spider-Man books while Peter Parker gets put on the back burner. Barry got the best epic hero's death a character could ask for and then served an infinitely better and more emotional purpose in death as an inspiration for heroism to his nephew than he ever served during his time as the Flash. Wally got to be the one to pioneer new levels of the Speed Force, but throughout Johns' and Waid's runs the idea that the Flash mantle would always be a legacy was reinforced over and over; someday Wally would pass it on to Bart, Jesse Quick or someone else. The legacy would keep moving forward, not backward. So it really sucks that Johns would later say "Nevermind what I said back then. I didn't know _then_ that I'd eventually get the chance to bring Barry back! Why keep pushing forward when we already struck gold with Barry, baby? What legacy?" I was also dead certain that I'd skipped a page that explained how Professor Zoom got his new "Negative Speed Force" powers. That seems like a helluva big change to an established character's powers to just spring out of nowhere with zero explanation. But no, it really was as simple as "I have new powers, shut up, don't ask questions; Geoff Johns has a story he needs to tell."
Wally and Barry running through time so fast that they become the lightning bolt that gives Flash his powers in the first place is one of the most Geoff Johns things I have ever heard #ItsAllConnected #GeoffJohns #FingerGuns
If I were to reboot the Flash, I would make Barry Allen the only Flash, Wally West is Kid Flash well into his 20s when Dick Grayson becomes Nightwing, Bart Allen is Impulse, and Jay Garrick (along with most of the other speedsters like Max Mercury and Johnny Quick) are from Earth-2 akin to the Silver Age incarnation where they were comics on Earth-Prime but are real on Earth-2. This way you lose the redundancy of the all of those Flashes but you can retain the characters themselves but under different names. Same for Green Lantern. Hal is the first GL, followed by John Stewart, Kyle Rayner, and Jessica Cruz. Hal and John are "space cop partners" and then John takes on Kyle as his new rookie partner and Hal takes on Jessica. Alan Scott is from Earth-2 like Jay Garrick. This way you lose the redundancy of the 8 Earth Green Lanterns. And for the Robins/Batgirls. Dick Grayson for 6 years, Jason Todd for 1, and Tim Drake is the final Robin. This way Batman can age normally and not be a 65 year old with a 10 year old Robin for the 5th time. Barbara Gordon would be the only Batgirl, Cassandra Cain would be BlackBat, and Stephanie Brown would just remain Spoiler. Again, this is to retain the legacy characters but to reduce the redundancy of 5 Robins and 3 Batgirls as well as reduce the convoluted nature of having all these kids grow up normally and Bruce Wayne somehow becomes adult Peter Pan and stays 30 forever.
"Those were for charity, Clark." The line that DEFINED The Flash being more than just "I have one of Superman's powers". And Smallville visualized it YEARS before with Clark racing Bart Backwards running ahead of him and BLURRING AWAY from someone moving at SUPER SPEED.
Liberty Belle is the Daughter of Johnny Quick and the original Liberty Belle.She's got both her parents powers.And she was called Jesse Quick the first time she appeared
Good episode. However, I would like to deconfirm the notion that Johns hates Wally. Not only did he have one of the most well known and respected Flash runs with Wally, he also had plans, after Flash: Rebirth, for the Flash book to become a Flash Family book. However, Flashpoint was forced into reboot, so those plans never came to fruition. Now, I wouldn't consider this my favorite Flash story, but I still enjoy it.
To be fair, Kirby introduced Black Racer way back in the early 70s as the death/grim reaper allegory for the New Gods and greater DCU. I think the mistake here is embracing any of the Vertigo Gaiman stuff into the DC canon proper since most already have established whatever’s and what have you’s but too late for that lol. I still think Death just wears many faces/forms despite Gaiman’s protesting.
I really do like Barry and Im glad he is the Flash. I think that people forget how Wally was not in a good place for like at least 5 years before Barry came back. His kids were annoying, he wasnt in any good stories, and it was such an issue that they tried to replace him with Bart only for it to flop and them having to bring him back. A lot of fans only remember Wally from the animated series (where he was actually an amalgam of Barry and Wally in the same way Tim Drake was basically Jason Todd in the DCAU). Barrys return made Flash relevant for the first time in a long time. I also find it hard to blame Geoff Johns for the downfall of Wally. By the end of this story he is clearly trying to set up this big Speed Force family that can coexist with eachother in the same way the Bat Family can. Only problem is no one really ran with it. I think that part of the problem is that multiple speedsters are inherently an issue. Having 1 Flash is already incredibly powerful, but having TEN? Thats incredible overkill. 10 members of the Bat Family can coexist because they are mostly just human. You can imagine it taking at least that many to fight crime in a city of millions. But 10 Flashs could probably eliminate crime worldwide if they wanted to.
Barry's book was in horribly boring Trial and other mediocre stories for a decade before that. EVERYBODY has bad periods. And Johns threw the concept of family out of the window himself.
Good intentions should never justify bad executions. As much as I like Johns' stories, he made me hate Barry Allen for a long time. Because before this, Barry was Wally's aspiration as the first sidekick who had to live up to his mentor's legacy. And in way he began to surpass Barry (imo of course). He's the friendlier more down-to-earth Flash who actively tries to reform his Rogues. Barry worked better as an Uncle Ben figure than as an active hero. Then Barry started to push Wally away, and then Flashpoint happened which he was actively the cause of that led to The Retcon of Wally West (amongst other things). Wally was actively forgotten and it was all Barry's fault. Only with DC Rebirth, did Barry finally corrected that mistake that I finally softened my hate towards him. Sorry if I'm being a downer, I'm glad you liked Barry's return but I just got to give my perspective in. Not trying to hate on anyone (well, just Barry but a lil' bit, tho).
@@TheMorlun Johns didnt do that. If anything Editorial did it. Again, he set up the Flash Family being bigger than ever at the end of Flash Rebirth. Just because he wanted to focus on Barry himself during the leadup to Flashpoint doesnt mean that he was throwing them away. He had ideas and future plans for most of the family including Wallys kids (who were the worst). He set up the girl as Impulse (and she was planned to be on a new team with Supergirl, Robin, Blue Beetle, Batgirl Stephanie Brown, Miss Martian and Static) and he had an idea for the boy who lost his powers to eventually become the new Turtle. Im sure there were a few pitches for what to do with Wally and the rest, but it isnt his fault that none of them were approved and Editorial decided to Reboot due to dwindling sales linewide. If Johns made 1 mistake it was not giving Wally his own new identity. I know it would have rubbed people the wrong way, but having 3 Flashs isnt helping anyone. Wally needs a new identity to stay relevant. When heroes have the same identity one always gets the short end of the stick, and it will always be Wally.
@Keith Tarnowski nope Wally started sucking the second they brought his kids back. So they tried Bart and that went even worse. So they brought back Barry
Geoff Johns doesn't deserve the blame for everything. Dan Didio made Johns do this book. Barry's ongoing depression over being brought back was basically meta-commentary. Johns had a pretty awesome run with Wally before he eventually had to do this. That's probably why he made Wally so an integral part of DC Rebirth. And why Wally got screwed over when Johns gave up his executive position.
Not a Flash fan at all, but here's my question: would it have been better for both flash fans if Barry was only able to return from the speed force momentarily? Like, he can only be on Earth for a limited number of time (ala Goku after his death), that way, Wally keeps being the Flash of Earth, while Barry gets to explore the intricacies of the Speed force, and is only able to help out on special occasions.
Speaking of our old pal Finger Guns, I'm looking forward to Back Issues of Doomsday Clock. Ya know, when it finishes... sometime in the next 2 to 10 years
And the gold medal of the Central City Olympics 2010 in the discipline of "having miserably the cake and eating it too, specialty: road running" goes to ... Geoff "pow, pow" Jones!
when i first watched it i remember thinking, wally a murderer? say wut? then you did heroes in crisis to explain the context. And now at the end when you're all talking about how they ruined wally i'm just nodding along
ah, just got done my first year of college. I listened to back issues on my way to college and I'm gonna do the same thing coming back. Yay back issues!
Another great episode guys. I’m bummed that editorial went the New 52 route and trashed Geoff’s initial post-Flashpoint pitch for Wally after five years of writing him as the Flash.
I think that when Heroes in Crisis is finished up next week, it should be discussed on an episode of Back Issues the day it comes out or the week immediately following, much like DC Rebirth. It demands a review, especially given the team's thoughts on Tom King.
@@diesenutss Heroes in Crisis 9 is coming out next week. It's on DC's official website. www.dccomics.com/comics/heroes-in-crisis-2018/heroes-in-crisis-9
Hey... Another book I sent you. Cool. And watching your takedown of it made me realize something. Geoff Johns is a good to great writer. BUUUUT, when he gets to do an event or make a major change, the stories are actually more approachable as their own entity. When continuity is a factor, jeez he likes to upset the apple cart EVERY TIME.
By the way, the reason Reverse Flash needs Barry to be the Flash is simply because he needs him to be Flash to become inspired by him and become Reverse Flash, and he REALLY likes being Reverse Flash. Sure he could kill Barry as a child and in doing so unmake himself, but he would never do that because he cares about himself too much. The only thing Thawne cares about more than his revenge is himself.
Inversely, Thawne hates the fact that he can't kill Barry without unmaking himself that he decides to create similar situation for Barry as well. Now, by killing Barry's mom and making it a motive for Barry to become a CSI and thus becoming The Flash, Barry can never kill Thawne (which he could before all this) without being unmade as well.
You can totally have a thing cause itself in a stable time loop. There's a term for that, it's *stable time loop*. It just depends on how the time travel in the setting works and, uh, there are no rules in DC time travel it just does whatever the fuck the writer wants.
However, we must have a Wally tainted by King's bad writing for maybe another 2 to 4 years, give or take, before someone might decide to retcon the whole cluster fuck.
Liberty Belle is Jessie Quick at the time she is married to Hour Man not the original but the son and both are on the JSA she has her speed plus she takes the same pill he does that grants super strength and somewhat invulnerability for an hour at a time
I made the mistake of reading this as one of my very first comics, let's just say I've never been more confused in my life. Loved the story after googling every aspect of it though!
When Wally brought up the costume thing I thought they were going to pull a Three Amigos and have everyone dress up as Barry to confuse Zoom. Kind of disappointed that didn't happen, actually.
I will always love redhead Wally West more than any other Flash but that's probably just my love of Nightwing seeping onto other heroes tied to him. It would be a dream to get a buddy cop adventure/book with Wally and Dick.
Props to Geoff Johns for having a stressed out Flash accidentally kill others and not coverup the murders.
DAAAAAAAAAAAMN! Somebody get Tom King some aloe vera to treat that burn!
Or maybe Barry is just better at the coverups.
@@ianmckee4726 well he is a CSI
He saved the murdering for Ray Fishers career! Oh snap.
Wally’s been cleared of the crime. He didn’t killed those heroes.
Wally's life from here on out can be summarized with the phrase "...and then I lost this, too."
"You wanna talk about losing people, cause I feel like Trunks would have some stories to tell. And i'm pretty sure they all end with "and then he died too". "
And then Tom King made me time travel so i could literally kill myself without actually having to kill myself.
@@TommyBaysMusic then it’s revealed Thawne was behind that as well.
@@bgvo4373and now Wally saved all those who “died” in his last run. Things always come full circle
Morrison created Black Flash, my bad!
Just about to watch the episode, I'm hoping the phrase "Wally/Barry just has to run a little bit faster" is uttered.
I swear if Sal doesn't say "he ran so fast that (insert plot convenience) happened" then this isn't a true Flash book
RedLightning17 It only took 4min and i’m dying
“That’s when he ran faster than he’s ever run before”
-every flash story ever (but I still love them lol)
Finally a flash book...don't worry sal I like at ur jokes about the flash
This is the book that really got me into the DC universe proper in comics, and made me really appreciate DC’s history and legacy. For that alone this book will always have a special place in my heart.
If only DC comics respected their history and legacy.
I just saw the episode upload and i felt and yeld "Yes!" like Sal when Thor cuted Thanos's head haha
You know what time it is... Its Geoff John's finger guns time.
This was actually the first comic I ever read, really cool to see you guys dig into my boy *Finger Guns*
The Flash can run through time at any point, he just doesn't know where he'll end up!! The Cosmic Treadmill allows him to pick an actual destination in time!
Not really pertaining to the vid, but my Fiancee left me recently and if not for your videos I probably wouldn't be here. Your guy's jokes and knowledge help me through my days when they get the roughest. So thanks to all y'all at Comic pop. May the future bring many more great vids
I really feel my Favorite DC Stories Are Flash and Green Lantern. Thank you Comic PoP. You're amazing. Love Geoff's work. Professor Zoom is my absolute Favorite DC villain.
Sal gets it. This whole book is Geoff Johns jizzing over how great Barry is. It should be called Flash Rebirth ( the beginning of the end for Wally West)
Great episode and you guys are so hilarious. As much as I liked The Flash Rebirth I'm kinda annoyed that Johns tried to make Barry the most important speedster ever just because he loved the character when he was a kid (similiar to why Geoff Johns decided to make Hal Jordan the greatest GL ever). Its a shame that legacy characters such as Wally West, Cassandra Cain, or Kyle Rayner are either sidelined, misused or forgotten.
I feel Hal was different because Hal’s legacy had been ruined for years and he had been a big murder during a huge chunk in the 90s so I’m glad Hal was brought back. Wally on the other hand was at a great spot and Barry coming back was pretty unnecessary and kinda stopped Wally’s progression as a hero
He didn’t even make Barry stronger than Wally, since Wally’s still a better Flash.
“He’s lazy bones”.. comedy gold
36:00 You don't have a lightning rod, something to love to keep you in this dimension
I love.. Lamp
I agree Tiffany, I grew up with Wally West Flash just like I grew up with John Stewart Green Lantern. I prefer both of them to their older counterparts (though I think Kyle Rainer conceptually makes more sense as a Green Lantern than the others). I don’t dislike Barry or Hal, but when they’re written in spite of Wally or John is when I have a problem. Wally gets no justice and John gets sidelined
Boy oh boy, does John get sidelined a lot. I jumped into comics only within the last few years and Green Lantern is my favorite book to read. There have been relatively few recent stories where John actually had an important role to play.
Bart was my first Flash and that was awkward when he dies after 13 issues.
I don't like Barry because him coming back basically sidelines Wally. There was really no reason for him to come back. As for Hal, I just don't like Hal as a character. John is cool but I did prefer Kyle. Heck I'd take Guy over Hal. It's why I enjoyed Green Lantern Corp more than Green Lantern. There's more to the Green Lantern than Hal.
Im a Wally West and Kyle Rayner man myself. But I grew up reading the JLA run where he was the GL for the majority of it.
For me it’s Wally and Hal. John is fine and I love him in JL but I find him a bit too generic and find Hal far more interesting. Hal coming back made sense imo. Barry coming back, while a good character, was unnecessary and sidelines Wally going forward
I absolutely LOOOVE the Geoff Johns/Cat metaphor!! Makes so much sense!!
I love wally family they were really awesome and tons of fun and it breaks my heart that wally's family is now gone while barry gets everything he wants wally west flash gets screwed over.
Barry has a whole new generation of fans now, so I won't begrudge them their enjoyment of the new Flash stories. But as someone who was reading Mark Waid's run and Geoff Johns' run before Johns returned to write this book, bringing Barry back still feels akin to bringing back Uncle Ben and making him the main character of the Spider-Man books while Peter Parker gets put on the back burner. Barry got the best epic hero's death a character could ask for and then served an infinitely better and more emotional purpose in death as an inspiration for heroism to his nephew than he ever served during his time as the Flash.
Wally got to be the one to pioneer new levels of the Speed Force, but throughout Johns' and Waid's runs the idea that the Flash mantle would always be a legacy was reinforced over and over; someday Wally would pass it on to Bart, Jesse Quick or someone else. The legacy would keep moving forward, not backward. So it really sucks that Johns would later say "Nevermind what I said back then. I didn't know _then_ that I'd eventually get the chance to bring Barry back! Why keep pushing forward when we already struck gold with Barry, baby? What legacy?"
I was also dead certain that I'd skipped a page that explained how Professor Zoom got his new "Negative Speed Force" powers. That seems like a helluva big change to an established character's powers to just spring out of nowhere with zero explanation. But no, it really was as simple as "I have new powers, shut up, don't ask questions; Geoff Johns has a story he needs to tell."
Ben channeled so much evil into the words "And when I get rid of Wallly, I WILL DESTORY HIM."
I’ve been waiting for this episode for 2 years now
Max Mercury was the original Quicksilver, published by Quality Comics. When DC started using him again, they changed his name (for obvious reasons)
Wally and Barry running through time so fast that they become the lightning bolt that gives Flash his powers in the first place is one of the most Geoff Johns things I have ever heard
#ItsAllConnected #GeoffJohns #FingerGuns
If I were to reboot the Flash, I would make Barry Allen the only Flash, Wally West is Kid Flash well into his 20s when Dick Grayson becomes Nightwing, Bart Allen is Impulse, and Jay Garrick (along with most of the other speedsters like Max Mercury and Johnny Quick) are from Earth-2 akin to the Silver Age incarnation where they were comics on Earth-Prime but are real on Earth-2. This way you lose the redundancy of the all of those Flashes but you can retain the characters themselves but under different names.
Same for Green Lantern. Hal is the first GL, followed by John Stewart, Kyle Rayner, and Jessica Cruz. Hal and John are "space cop partners" and then John takes on Kyle as his new rookie partner and Hal takes on Jessica. Alan Scott is from Earth-2 like Jay Garrick. This way you lose the redundancy of the 8 Earth Green Lanterns.
And for the Robins/Batgirls. Dick Grayson for 6 years, Jason Todd for 1, and Tim Drake is the final Robin. This way Batman can age normally and not be a 65 year old with a 10 year old Robin for the 5th time. Barbara Gordon would be the only Batgirl, Cassandra Cain would be BlackBat, and Stephanie Brown would just remain Spoiler. Again, this is to retain the legacy characters but to reduce the redundancy of 5 Robins and 3 Batgirls as well as reduce the convoluted nature of having all these kids grow up normally and Bruce Wayne somehow becomes adult Peter Pan and stays 30 forever.
Long day at work and the brightest part of my day isn't the shower. I did shower tho, it's a new back issues. Thank you guy, New Jersey representing.
Hell Yay, I love this Flash story. You guys rock!!
Finally some Flash content on this channel. I need as many as you are willing to give us.
"Those were for charity, Clark."
The line that DEFINED The Flash being more than just "I have one of Superman's powers".
And Smallville visualized it YEARS before with Clark racing Bart
Backwards running ahead of him and BLURRING AWAY from someone moving at SUPER SPEED.
Nothing excites me more than getting two notifications from the Comicpop Discord channel, cause you know it's a new video uploaded.
This was one of the very first comics I ever read. This alongside Green Lantern Rebirth and the Brubaker Iron Fist run.
the fact that first 10min or so of this video is explaining the extremely convoluted history of the flash is what makes this for me
what was meant to be a celebration of the flash family, actually marked it's end.
I'm only 12 minutes in, but this is hilarious. I'm really enjoying Barry now, but these points are true and FUNNY.
Johns also wrote Wally West after Waid for a longtime. Highly recommended
Just got my comic pop t shirt ready to re binge all the episodes of back issues
Liberty Belle is the Daughter of Johnny Quick and the original Liberty Belle.She's got both her parents powers.And she was called Jesse Quick the first time she appeared
Love your show guys. Keep up the good work.
Why does Motion Blur Tiff seem so natural. Is she actually a speedster?
Yep, this was my first Flash book.
Good episode. However, I would like to deconfirm the notion that Johns hates Wally. Not only did he have one of the most well known and respected Flash runs with Wally, he also had plans, after Flash: Rebirth, for the Flash book to become a Flash Family book. However, Flashpoint was forced into reboot, so those plans never came to fruition. Now, I wouldn't consider this my favorite Flash story, but I still enjoy it.
So it's more like life hates Wally. Got it.
@@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache More like DiDio hates Wally lol
Remember when your turkey sandwich went bad last week during lunch? It was me Barry! I was the sandwich!
Boy I guess you can say Eobard is really a Thorn in Barry's side.
Ba dum tss.
To be fair, Kirby introduced Black Racer way back in the early 70s as the death/grim reaper allegory for the New Gods and greater DCU. I think the mistake here is embracing any of the Vertigo Gaiman stuff into the DC canon proper since most already have established whatever’s and what have you’s but too late for that lol. I still think Death just wears many faces/forms despite Gaiman’s protesting.
I really do like Barry and Im glad he is the Flash. I think that people forget how Wally was not in a good place for like at least 5 years before Barry came back. His kids were annoying, he wasnt in any good stories, and it was such an issue that they tried to replace him with Bart only for it to flop and them having to bring him back. A lot of fans only remember Wally from the animated series (where he was actually an amalgam of Barry and Wally in the same way Tim Drake was basically Jason Todd in the DCAU).
Barrys return made Flash relevant for the first time in a long time. I also find it hard to blame Geoff Johns for the downfall of Wally. By the end of this story he is clearly trying to set up this big Speed Force family that can coexist with eachother in the same way the Bat Family can. Only problem is no one really ran with it. I think that part of the problem is that multiple speedsters are inherently an issue. Having 1 Flash is already incredibly powerful, but having TEN? Thats incredible overkill. 10 members of the Bat Family can coexist because they are mostly just human. You can imagine it taking at least that many to fight crime in a city of millions. But 10 Flashs could probably eliminate crime worldwide if they wanted to.
Barry's book was in horribly boring Trial and other mediocre stories for a decade before that. EVERYBODY has bad periods.
And Johns threw the concept of family out of the window himself.
Good intentions should never justify bad executions.
As much as I like Johns' stories, he made me hate Barry Allen for a long time. Because before this, Barry was Wally's aspiration as the first sidekick who had to live up to his mentor's legacy. And in way he began to surpass Barry (imo of course). He's the friendlier more down-to-earth Flash who actively tries to reform his Rogues. Barry worked better as an Uncle Ben figure than as an active hero.
Then Barry started to push Wally away, and then Flashpoint happened which he was actively the cause of that led to The Retcon of Wally West (amongst other things). Wally was actively forgotten and it was all Barry's fault. Only with DC Rebirth, did Barry finally corrected that mistake that I finally softened my hate towards him.
Sorry if I'm being a downer, I'm glad you liked Barry's return but I just got to give my perspective in. Not trying to hate on anyone (well, just Barry but a lil' bit, tho).
@@TheMorlun Johns didnt do that. If anything Editorial did it. Again, he set up the Flash Family being bigger than ever at the end of Flash Rebirth. Just because he wanted to focus on Barry himself during the leadup to Flashpoint doesnt mean that he was throwing them away. He had ideas and future plans for most of the family including Wallys kids (who were the worst). He set up the girl as Impulse (and she was planned to be on a new team with Supergirl, Robin, Blue Beetle, Batgirl Stephanie Brown, Miss Martian and Static) and he had an idea for the boy who lost his powers to eventually become the new Turtle.
Im sure there were a few pitches for what to do with Wally and the rest, but it isnt his fault that none of them were approved and Editorial decided to Reboot due to dwindling sales linewide. If Johns made 1 mistake it was not giving Wally his own new identity. I know it would have rubbed people the wrong way, but having 3 Flashs isnt helping anyone. Wally needs a new identity to stay relevant. When heroes have the same identity one always gets the short end of the stick, and it will always be Wally.
@Keith Tarnowski nope Wally started sucking the second they brought his kids back. So they tried Bart and that went even worse. So they brought back Barry
those last 10 minutes just hurt my head in ways I can't even put into words.
Whole couch skeptical and confused about what the hell Geoff Johns was trying to make. Very good video.
Geoff Johns doesn't deserve the blame for everything. Dan Didio made Johns do this book. Barry's ongoing depression over being brought back was basically meta-commentary.
Johns had a pretty awesome run with Wally before he eventually had to do this. That's probably why he made Wally so an integral part of DC Rebirth. And why Wally got screwed over when Johns gave up his executive position.
What a line to go out on, "I have a Green Lantern hard on", HAHAHA God Damn It Ben LMFAO!!!!! :-)
Really made Ben live with that joke with the smash cut 😂
Barry Allen out here disintegrating other speedsters, maintaining that "Ultimate Tag Champion" title.
Not a Flash fan at all, but here's my question: would it have been better for both flash fans if Barry was only able to return from the speed force momentarily? Like, he can only be on Earth for a limited number of time (ala Goku after his death), that way, Wally keeps being the Flash of Earth, while Barry gets to explore the intricacies of the Speed force, and is only able to help out on special occasions.
Speaking of our old pal Finger Guns, I'm looking forward to Back Issues of Doomsday Clock. Ya know, when it finishes... sometime in the next 2 to 10 years
OMG Finally!!! I’m so glad y’all revisited Flash
7:59 Neil Gaiman says "no."
RIP Wally West
And the gold medal of the Central City Olympics 2010 in the discipline of "having miserably the cake and eating it too, specialty: road running" goes to ... Geoff "pow, pow" Jones!
I wish you guys could do more flash I watch this once every few months I love this
Mark Weid juggled so many Flash characters, Geoff John's can't handle more than one.
when i first watched it i remember thinking, wally a murderer? say wut? then you did heroes in crisis to explain the context. And now at the end when you're all talking about how they ruined wally i'm just nodding along
ah, just got done my first year of college. I listened to back issues on my way to college and I'm gonna do the same thing coming back. Yay back issues!
Yay higher education?
@@GrievousishI had fun. So yeah, yay!
Congrats!
@@ItsOver9000Productions Yay!
Same, dude. Though, I’m gonna have to take Summer classes to get ahead a little more.
I love when you guys do Flash books
Another great episode guys. I’m bummed that editorial went the New 52 route and trashed Geoff’s initial post-Flashpoint pitch for Wally after five years of writing him as the Flash.
Awesome! I've wanted this ever since you guys did GL: Rebirth.
Obviously not forever. Wally's doing great now.
This episode was so much fun!
I think that when Heroes in Crisis is finished up next week, it should be discussed on an episode of Back Issues the day it comes out or the week immediately following, much like DC Rebirth. It demands a review, especially given the team's thoughts on Tom King.
I thought HiC wasn't ending until Doomsday Clock?
@@diesenutss Heroes in Crisis 9 is coming out next week. It's on DC's official website.
www.dccomics.com/comics/heroes-in-crisis-2018/heroes-in-crisis-9
Synopsis: "....he ran sooo fast...."
~~~Fin
Oh thanks guys I was waiting for this soo long time !!!
This series broke my heart. Wally earned that title over the years. If they wanted a Barry, why not use one of the alternate Earth's?
Side note two years later: Liberty Bell is named after her Mother... Liberty Bell.
One of the few back issues books Ive read! The Flash is me favorite
Hey... Another book I sent you. Cool. And watching your takedown of it made me realize something. Geoff Johns is a good to great writer. BUUUUT, when he gets to do an event or make a major change, the stories are actually more approachable as their own entity. When continuity is a factor, jeez he likes to upset the apple cart EVERY TIME.
My wishes have finally came true
He actually did it oh lord lol I'm excited to see how this goes
I see Geoff Johns more like the James Cameron of comics. All of his stories are in service of the action.
By the way, the reason Reverse Flash needs Barry to be the Flash is simply because he needs him to be Flash to become inspired by him and become Reverse Flash, and he REALLY likes being Reverse Flash. Sure he could kill Barry as a child and in doing so unmake himself, but he would never do that because he cares about himself too much. The only thing Thawne cares about more than his revenge is himself.
Inversely, Thawne hates the fact that he can't kill Barry without unmaking himself that he decides to create similar situation for Barry as well. Now, by killing Barry's mom and making it a motive for Barry to become a CSI and thus becoming The Flash, Barry can never kill Thawne (which he could before all this) without being unmade as well.
Barry causing his own origin due to time travel is actually just a very simple causal loop.
This' also commonly known as the bootstrap paradox.
Liberty Belle aka Jesse Chambers aka Jesse Quick is the daughter of Johnny Quick and Libby Lawerence (the original Liberty Belle of DC.)
also yay great back issues on Flash rebirth :)
You can totally have a thing cause itself in a stable time loop. There's a term for that, it's *stable time loop*. It just depends on how the time travel in the setting works and, uh, there are no rules in DC time travel it just does whatever the fuck the writer wants.
Wally is my flash regardless of Tom kings bs.
However, we must have a Wally tainted by King's bad writing for maybe another 2 to 4 years, give or take, before someone might decide to retcon the whole cluster fuck.
Man this episode was uploaded in a *flash* ...
I’ll see myself out.
Liberty Belle is Jessie Quick at the time she is married to Hour Man not the original but the son and both are on the JSA she has her speed plus she takes the same pill he does that grants super strength and somewhat invulnerability for an hour at a time
She doesn't take a pill to get her strength. She gets her strength from her mother the original liberty bell.
That's a cool ass thumbnail!
A damn good Flash book Awesome with Barry Allen
Man how is it so hard to get that flash movie going I would like to see this come to life
Flash family was already a convoluted maze even before Johns decided to mess with it with this book.
6:55 LOL
I made the mistake of reading this as one of my very first comics, let's just say I've never been more confused in my life. Loved the story after googling every aspect of it though!
I hate how hard Sal's joke at 35:43 made me laugh. Luckily I just finished my water so I didn't spit that everywhere.
I mean Geoff "finger guns" John's books have so many delays cause the Gary Frank and EVS are really slow
When Wally brought up the costume thing I thought they were going to pull a Three Amigos and have everyone dress up as Barry to confuse Zoom. Kind of disappointed that didn't happen, actually.
You know your backstory, power set, family, and legacy characters are too convoluted when Tiffany can't even enjoy it.
IT WAS ME, BARRY!!
IT WAS ME BARRY!
I will always love redhead Wally West more than any other Flash but that's probably just my love of Nightwing seeping onto other heroes tied to him. It would be a dream to get a buddy cop adventure/book with Wally and Dick.
I’m 25 and my brain broke every time there was any mention of the black Flash and you weren’t talking about Wallace West