AERO 111: A Perfected Storm - introducing the ultimate aero wheel tire system | DT Swiss

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 26 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 59

  • @SonnyDarvish
    @SonnyDarvish 6 місяців тому +12

    Looking forward to BRR testing this out once it's in the market.

  • @fiddleronthebike
    @fiddleronthebike 6 місяців тому +7

    I just ordered my Aero 111... I'm very exited about how it feels and performs!!! ...and maybe you should go the next step together with Continental and bring a Aero 111 TT version with an even lower rolling resistance? That would be the perfect tire I think...

    • @danielsotelo3942
      @danielsotelo3942 6 місяців тому

      The performance promises on the Aero 111 will not work unless you rotational balance your wheels... That is a fact.

    • @fiddleronthebike
      @fiddleronthebike 6 місяців тому +1

      @@danielsotelo3942sorry, but that is absolute nonsense. The advantage of this tire (in conjunction with aero wheels) is only in aerodynamics, balancing the wheels does absolute nothing in this regard. Of course you can do that on top and for sure it will not do any bad… but don’t expect any significant advantage; as it is only a few grams and the wheels spin at a relative low cadence you will see a difference only if you hold the bike in your hands, not while riding

    • @fiddleronthebike
      @fiddleronthebike 6 місяців тому

      …simple physics, there are no mysterious miraculous phenomena…

    • @danielsotelo3942
      @danielsotelo3942 6 місяців тому

      @@fiddleronthebike I'm at work right now, when I get home I'll explain how it is "Not" nonsense. Meanwhile, here's a few things to think about. 35 years ago while I was working inside the Japanese bicycle industry I requested many times to some of the best rim and wheel builders of that time to make an aerodynamic rim or wheel set. And just like you, they chuckled a bit as they told me it was NON SENSE. What people fail to understand is those innocent 8 or 10 grams of off balance on todays Lt/Wt carbon bicycle wheels, at high speeds the centrifugal forces turn those innocent grams into ounces! These onces then create powerful oscillation forces that starts to invite the entire weight of the wheel (from the axle to the outer perimeter of the tire) to start oscillating and swinging off the bike axle like a 1.2 lb sledgehammer! Now imagine both front and rear wheels doing the same thing at high speeds. Bottom line is this, an un balanced wheel creates interrupted inertia which slows you down. While a balanced wheel has free flowing inertia which only gets faster with speed. I did the research.

    • @fiddleronthebike
      @fiddleronthebike 6 місяців тому

      @@danielsotelo3942 well I have just made the measurements; at my wheels with 50mm wheels ready installed with tires the unbalance is 3 respective 4 grams - not 8 or 10. At 40 kph the wheels spins at only ~5 Hz... it doesn't slow you down at all. BUT I didn't want to discuss this topic at all, if you believe it does slow you down - ok, so be it. Nonetheless that has nothing to do with aerodynamics of the wheel, no matter what the unbalance of the wheel does to your ride, it will do it with or without the Aero111 tire, and therefore you get the gains! If balancing the wheels make you faster you will get the aero gains ON TOP, if it does not, as I believe, you will get them alone. One has nothing to do with the other, no matter how big an effect wheel unbalance has.
      Btw, I ride road bikes for more than 40 years and back then, when almost nobody talked about aerodynamics but everybody about weight I was obsessed with that too, and an Italian brand (I think it was Silca, but I'm not sure) sold tiny weights to balance the wheels. For what they are they where ridiculous expensive, but I bought them and balanced my wheels carefully - after all they argued about the great benefits... Back than the unbalance of the wheels where much much bigger than today because the aluminium rims had those heavy inserts to connect the rims. I could not see or feel any difference at all, not in speed, not in ride feel.
      On the other, as I'm using these Aero111 tires I can tell you that they make a significant difference for sure. Not if there is no wind or straight tailwind or straight headwind (or the advantage is so small that I can't verify it). But with crosswind of any angle (and that is what I experience almost all the time...) it's significant. The handling is much better (much less effect on the stearing) and speed is indeed a bit higher

  • @luisll5171
    @luisll5171 6 місяців тому +9

    We need numbers. It is faster. How much faster?

    • @dtswiss
      @dtswiss  6 місяців тому +5

      Hi and thank you very much for your interest. I invite you to visit our innovation page: www.dtswiss.com/en/innovations/a-perfected-storm. There you will get even more insights into the tire's development and the detailed results from the wind tunnel.

    • @vozzen
      @vozzen 6 місяців тому +1

      They shared the data in the video?

    • @zikaperic2133
      @zikaperic2133 6 місяців тому +2

      0,01w at 40km/h

    • @adrianthomas8225
      @adrianthomas8225 6 місяців тому

      The same as the light grey tyre (p0.?) up to 15 degrees yaw at 45kmh ie about a 20kmh crosswind

  • @FT__Bicycling_____-sc7yv
    @FT__Bicycling_____-sc7yv 6 місяців тому +7

    The data is surprising. In function it is a crosswind tire. NO difference at all with no wind or head-on wind. The bigger the crosswind the bigger the improvement - up to a huge amount like 20w at 45 kph.
    One thing - which I'm surprised they showed - is that some other tires are much better aero performance at moderate crosswinds than the GP5K. (and the Schwalbe Pro One TLE is so aero that it works nearly as well as this one at high speeds like 45kph). The comparison to other brands tires perhaps show why this aero tire was invented - because compared to others the GP5k are bad at high speed in strong crosswinds.

    • @Tomaschhh-k5z
      @Tomaschhh-k5z 6 місяців тому +3

      These charts are misleading. You never encounter 0 degree yaw due to micro steering inputs of a driver. If you go in a straight line, you will induce micro steering inputs from the pedaling and this is as much as +/- 5degree yaw. Additionally a cyclist will encounter different yaw angles of wind due to turbulence caused by road furniture, tree, grass, cars and obviously steering input.
      Also air in real life is always turbulent which increases effective wind yaw angle.
      You are more likely at +/- 3-15 degree yaw wind angles during cycling. If you ride faster the effective yaw angles of wind reduce.
      vortex generators/shedders are tuned to a certain frequency and therefore speed. It also works at higher and lower speeds, just to a lesser degree. As it seems it's tuned for ~30kph on this tire which is probably the average speed you reach during cycling as a non pro.

    • @FT__Bicycling_____-sc7yv
      @FT__Bicycling_____-sc7yv 6 місяців тому

      @@Tomaschhh-k5z thank you for all the info.
      I would think an aero specific tire should be tuned for 40+ kph (or 45-50 if it would have heavy time trial use )

    • @Tomaschhh-k5z
      @Tomaschhh-k5z 6 місяців тому

      @@FT__Bicycling_____-sc7yv it could also be tuned for 35-40 kph. It's hard to say because there are no charts for it. It's also possible that the 26 and 29mm tire are tuned differently, which would make sense.

  • @Unisizo
    @Unisizo 2 місяці тому

    @dtswiss I've poured through your data and test results -- cool stuff. Two big questions for you:
    Why did you stop at 45km/hr with your data? Where I ride I'm frequently dealing with 25km/hr headwinds while going generally downhill. It would be nice to have a 60km/hr datapoint
    it would be nice to get some guidance on what rim internal/external width ranges the two sizes are meant for. I've gathered from your test data that the 26c is for around 20-22 internal and the 29 for 22-24, but some actual guidance would be nice

    • @dtswiss
      @dtswiss  2 місяці тому

      Hi, very good questions indeed. We like to be challenged with technical questions as we see a real interest in bike industry innovations. The speed of 45 km/h in the wind tunnel is where we usually test and we are trying to make results comparable within a test session and over different sessions and categories. With gravel cycling getting popular, we also went down with the speeds to 30 km/h, that´s the minimum you are able to measure reliable results. With the experience of lower speeds in reality, we made also measurements with the WTS in these speeds. There, we figured out that the combination of apparent wind direction and riding speed not only led to more extreme yaw-angles but that the AERO 111 increased the sailing effect at this speed. Thus, the tire increases the aero performance significantly if you are riding in the flat with e.g. strong cross winds. In contrast to this, increasing speeds and cross winds reduce the yaw-angle and the system is stronger affected by the base drag (within -10° to +10° Yaw). The calculation of yaw-angles is a vector calculation and you will find examples in the internet to make your personal calculation. Therefore, your mentioned speed and wind conditions lead to well-known results in terms of aerodynamic and handling properties. One important take away from the tire for high speed riding is a stable and foreseeable steering behavior - especially in these downhills you can ride with confidence without being surprised. Best, Ralf - DT Swiss

    • @dtswiss
      @dtswiss  2 місяці тому +1

      2nd question replied separately: The tire widths of 26 and 29 mm are according the latest ISO norm and related to the rim innerwidth. The widest/still safe tire/rim combination for 26 mm AERO 111 is 22 mm (ERC/ER/E wheels), with the AERO 111 in 29 mm, the maximum allowance for a safe fit is 24 mm (up to GRC/GR/G wheels). We must admit that the AERO 111 tires have been developed to work with our wheels/rims, therefore we cannot comment on other wheels (or external rim width) of other wheels/brands. In general, the less wide the tire the better are the aerodynamics of the WTS. You will get excellent results when combining 26 mm with our ARC wheels, combining the same tire width with the ERC wheels might lead to even better aerodynamics in this category. On the other hand, the designated plus in comfort for rougher road surfaces will be sacrificed. Putting a wider 29 mm AERO 111 on the ARC wheels might enhance the steering performance and the comfort but on the other hand the weighted aero gains of the ideal 26 mm tire will be decreased. Our wheel manual will guide you through best tire/rim combinations. But please respect also the max. tire pressures for tires and rims. If these tire pressures do not match 100 %, the "lowest" maximum tire pressure of one of the components has to be respected (see hookless rims)! Best, Ralf - DT Swiss

    • @Unisizo
      @Unisizo 2 місяці тому

      @@dtswiss Ralf thank you so much for such detailed answers.

    • @MonikaMonoProduction2012
      @MonikaMonoProduction2012 16 днів тому

      @@dtswiss hi, you said maximum allowance is 24 mm for the 700x29c tyre. Do you mean max 24 mm rim depth, inner width or outer width? Thank you.

    • @dtswiss
      @dtswiss  14 днів тому

      Hi Monika, the rim inner width defines the width between the hooks of the rim, not the height. A 29C AERO 111 can be mounted on a 24 mm wide (internal rim) rim, not wider (> 24 mm, acc. ISO-Norm). A less wide rim < 24 mm is no problem. For further information check our tire/rim/pressure sheet: d2a13k6araex7u.cloudfront.net/pmt/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/10/00/00/00/85/8/MAN_WXWXXXXXX1610S_WEB_ZZ_001.pdf. Best, Ralf - DT Swiss

  • @emilioc700
    @emilioc700 2 місяці тому

    What size for optimum aero interface on 21mm internal/30mm external rim?

    • @dtswiss
      @dtswiss  2 місяці тому +1

      Hi, thanks for your question. You will achieve the best aero performance if you install the 26 mm wide tire. Up to internal 22 mm rim width, you are able to run safe on 26 mm AERO 111 tires in the front. However, if you use the AERO 111 in 29 mm, a characteristic like comfort can be improved (by a lower tire pressure), but the aero performance will be decreased. In general, a wider external rim will contribute positively to the aerodynamics of a front wheel. Best, Ralf - DT Swiss

  • @Franck2Dijon
    @Franck2Dijon 3 місяці тому

    Y a t'il un retour d'expérience de l'équipe pro ( Ag2r je crois) sur l'utilisation? Est ce que ce pneu est destiné aux triathlon? quel est le publique visé? Merci 😊

    • @dtswiss
      @dtswiss  3 місяці тому +1

      L’équipe AG2R est très contente du pneu et l’utilise sur la plupart des courses depuis le Tour de France 2024. Ben O Connor prend d’ailleurs la seconde place au championnat du monde de Zurich sur ces pneus.
      Attention, le 111 ne se monte qu’à l’avant, là où il permet un gain aérodynamique. Il est adapté à beaucoup d’utilisations, dont le Triathlon, offrant un gain de watts à vitesse équivalente et plus de stabilité au pilotage dans les zones techniques ou venteuses. À noter aussi que plus la jante est basse, plus le gain aéro est important. Il est donc particulièrement adapté pour ceux qui veulent bénéficier des avantages d’une jante basse en montée, sans faire une croix sur l’aérodynamique dans les zones plus plates et les descentes. C’est pourquoi il est souvent combiné avec nos ARC 38mm.
      En espèrent avoir pu vous donner toutes les informations dont vous aviez besoin, bonne journée,
      Pour en savoir plus : www.dtswiss.com/en/innovations/a-perfected-storm

  • @Ninjump
    @Ninjump 6 місяців тому +1

    This makes sense to me for a TT tire. For road and crits I'm less sold as I'd not trade a marginal gain like that for any compromise of my contact patch and ability to really rip a corner.
    Does anyone have real world experience/feel on these?

    • @8rk
      @8rk 6 місяців тому

      The little thread shapes on bike tires don't do anything for your grip. It's all about the rubber compound. So if Aero 111 tire is identical to GP5000 S TR, you're not losing any grip. We'll see if their aero claims come true, however.

  • @elviracatherinetalaoc2070
    @elviracatherinetalaoc2070 6 місяців тому

    How's the puncture resistance?

    • @dtswiss
      @dtswiss  6 місяців тому

      Hi and thank you for your interest. If you are interested in Details about the tire, please contact Continental which is taking care about the internal details of the tire. Enjoy your Bicycle, Friso "DT Swiss".

    • @trbeyond
      @trbeyond 3 місяці тому

      Good. I have been using and had a complete gash in the tire and it didn’t blow out

  • @edsinofsky
    @edsinofsky Місяць тому

    On my want list.

  • @valerkeen
    @valerkeen 6 місяців тому

    Hello! On the E1800 30mm, what is the widest tire you can install?

    • @dtswiss
      @dtswiss  6 місяців тому

      Hi, in our wheel manual d2a13k6araex7u.cloudfront.net/pmt/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/10/00/00/00/85/8/MAN_WXWXXXXXX1610S_WEB_ZZ_001.pdf you will find the allowance of tire width (light grey) and our recommendations (dark grey), which are the usual tire widths for the best aero and comfort for this rim with 22 mm internal rim width. Best, Ralf - DT Swiss

  • @jericomanoguid
    @jericomanoguid 6 місяців тому +1

    That production manager sounded like Giovanni Giorgio. Vibinnnn

  • @martinschulz4649
    @martinschulz4649 6 місяців тому

    I have ordered one of those (26-622) and tried to install it on a DT Swiss Arc 1400 Dicut 62. Unfortunately it's impossible, the tire is too tight. I usually run GP 5000 and they are relatively easy to install. Did anyone manage to install a 111 tire (without excessive force)?

    • @dtswiss
      @dtswiss  6 місяців тому

      In the past weeks we installed several AERO 111 in 26 mm on various ARC rims. With the help of a plastic tire lever, it will work with any additional extra force. If the tire bead is seated inside the TL rim bead, the diameter will allow you the installation. Best, Ralf - DT Swiss

    • @martinschulz4649
      @martinschulz4649 6 місяців тому

      @@dtswiss Hi Ralf, thanks for the response. Thats actually exactly how I tried it.
      I also tried a bit of soap water on the rim to reduce friction but it’s simply too tight.

    • @dtswiss
      @dtswiss  6 місяців тому

      There are some other easy fit options in the market to test. Try to get the tire over the rim on at the location of the valve. If this remains difficult, I would recommend to you addressing this obstacle to Continental Tires directly. Best, Ralf - DT Swiss

  • @gavinatkins3371
    @gavinatkins3371 6 місяців тому

    Perhaps the Bonttager Wing TT was the precursor

  • @guantisengkun4342
    @guantisengkun4342 5 місяців тому

    After many years of cycling, I’ve learnt how to identity marketing gimicks and avoid them

  • @robertgreiner4703
    @robertgreiner4703 6 місяців тому

    Why do you develop an aero tire (which is a really good thing) but with an average rolling resistance? If you say A, you should also say B ;)

    • @irfuel
      @irfuel 6 місяців тому

      Ah yes, you probably saw it exists in 2 compounds and widths? ....

    • @robertgreiner4703
      @robertgreiner4703 6 місяців тому

      @@irfuel i saw 26 and 28mm. Both too wide for a front tire. Why not 23 or 24 mm ?

    • @timprice944
      @timprice944 6 місяців тому

      ​@@robertgreiner470323mm or 24mm is what Jesus used to ride with back in the day. No longer any benefits of riding a tyre of that size.

    • @irfuel
      @irfuel 6 місяців тому +1

      @@robertgreiner4703omg 😂😂😂

    • @mathiaslechner6103
      @mathiaslechner6103 6 місяців тому

      Why would you say it has an average rolling resistance?

  • @rolandcolavizza5368
    @rolandcolavizza5368 6 місяців тому +3

    .001 watt saved at 3 times the price , perfect

    • @chaseexcellencenotwomen4519
      @chaseexcellencenotwomen4519 6 місяців тому

      It seems to be, that the tyre is only better for cross winds. Unfortunately in real world the effective wind is more likely from 0-7,5 degree. Normally the cross wind is weighted due to the fact, that crosswind goes less in the result.
      It is really a question if the tyre brings a benefit in real world.

  • @vodizzzle
    @vodizzzle 6 місяців тому

    This aero gain is as much of a theory as multiverses 😂 you can argue they are true but in reality you can’t test the theory and after all it doesn’t matter for nobody. But hey, you got me clicking on the vid…😂😂

    • @dtswiss
      @dtswiss  6 місяців тому +4

      Thanks for clicking the video. 👍 Wind tunnel tests are a safe method to produce results that can be similar repeated, thus a field test has more "noise" and might not be reproducible. The aero gains for this tire are related to the yaw angles applied, so they can be extremely high, but also in the frontal airflow smaller. Weighting the yaw angles from -20° to +20° according to the estimated occurrences gives us an indication in a ride for the avg. aero benefit. Best, Ralf - DT Swiss