How The Netherlands deals with History (1995)
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- Опубліковано 13 вер 2016
- Dutch TV-report (with English subtitles) about the way the Netherlands deals with the colonial war (1945-1949) in Indonesia.
The report addresses issues such as: we teach the youth about German war crimes on Dutch citizens (Putten), we tell them about American war crimes in Vietnam (My Lai) but why do we not mention the war crimes that Dutch military committed on Indonesian citizens?
Dutch veteran Joop Hueting shares his memories of warcrimes that he saw. Dutch journalist Herman Wigbold is critical about the way the Dutch remember its history.
Program: KRO Brandpunt 1995
By: Martin Freuberg, Steven de Vogel and Ton F. van Dijk
Thank you for sharing this!
interesting! Thanks for uploading this. I heard there is a big discussion in Netherlands about the Dutch role in Indonesia during the independence war recently.
Meneteskan airmata mendengar sendiri kesaksian mantan tentara Belanda selama agresi militer di Indonesia. Betapa para pahlawan kemerdekaan RI teguh kukuh berjuang walau nyawa taruhannya. Rakyat sipil anak2, wanita, dan lansia yg tidak berdosa menjadi korban pembantaian. Semoga Allah SWT menempatkan mereka dalam surga. Terima kasih para pahlawan. Dirgahayu NKRI ke 75
P.S. Buku pelajaran sejarah Belanda memang perlu ditulis ulang
I'm an indonesian student studying in Netherlands. I have to say from all of dutch friends that I met, they said they didn't know shit about their war crimes back then in Indonesia, and they wish their grandparents would tell them the stories. I guess the Dutch wants to eradicate their black history in Indonesia
No disrespect to your friends. But it's also a matter of interest. I am Dutch I am full aware of the crimes happen in Indonesia. You can find countless documentaries about it even on UA-cam such as this one. This documentary was made in 1995 but years later the Dutch government acknowledges the things that happened in Indonesia. What I am trying to say is that you can no longer really speak of a cover up any more. The truth is that most Dutch people really don't care about their own history. It's true that for a long time those things where ignored in class rooms. But American class rooms will also not go into all the details what they did in Vietnam. The difference is that there are hundreds of Hollywood movies made about those tragedies. And that is why many Americans know. Not because they remembered what they where told in school. Any Dutch person can google around. Like me. Watch a Dutch documentary about it like this one. Like I am doing now. The difference is that your friends don't because they generally have little interest in History I imagine. So no it's not true the Dutch do not want to eradicate their black history in Indonesia. This Documentary for Dutch television Proofs that. Just like many other documentaries. Just like several politicians apologizing in the media about what happened in Indonesia. Dutch people that don't know. They don't know because they don't want to know. But because they don't have access to it.
Arjan Molenaar the difference is, i bet all of indonesians know about what did the Dutch do back then, whether they are interested in history or not. I'm bad at history yet still i am consciously know what happened to some extend. Knowing this actually influences our political decision, and to remind us what will happen if we let stronger nation oppress us. On the other hand the Dutch in today's generation are born not knowing what their ancestors did to us, if yes its very biased. But they do know that the nazi was the bad guy for them. It's a double standard at some point. I personally don't have anything against the Dutch, hell even my grandfather was born after we declared independence. But I guess the netherlands should tell their next generations stuff like this, after all the netherlands are famous of being open are they not?
Just out of interest, how much did you get told in school about the Genocide committed by Indonesia in East-Timor or Papua? My guess is going to be they either didn't say anything about it or altered history in such a way to justify it. You can say all you want about the Dutch but we certainly acknowledge the atrocities we have committed in the past, could we do more to educate younger generation on it, we probably could but we certainly aren't denying it. Can you say the same about the close to a million people your country has slaughtered in East-Timor, Papua and other places? In the end we are all people and we all have the same capability to commit terrible acts, there is no point trying to point at one group and act as if they are more evil than another.
chevanl wow i can't answer that
I agree that War brings out the worst in people. The Americans did horrible things to the Vietnamese but that is also because the Vietnamese did terrible things towards Americans. And I think that during war. There are crimes committed on both sides. And I think that both sides are ashamed of that and don't like to teach those things to the next generation. But there is one thing that is really strange from the Dutch government. And that is that the Netherlands might not deny any accusations. We also don't really take any action either. Because till this day no Dutch soldier stood trial for War Crimes. And this is something that is really strange. Especially because we are not denying it. If you look at other countries like the USA. There where trials and investigations in the United states about the crimes they committed in Vietnam. People that committed those crimes where brought to justice and sentenced. Also Germany brought Nazi Criminals to justice and this goes for most countries. And this is something that the Netherlands never did. Till this day the Dutch government never officially apologized to Indonesia. While countries such as Germany did apologize officially for WW2 I can not give any opinion about how Indonesia handles their War Crimes. Because I do not know enough information about that. I also think it is a bit pointless to make a contest that says. Well we might have done this but you did that. But when I look at our own government we might have taken some steps in the right direction. But we are still a long way off in taking full responsibility for what we have done. And this is a crime. Because the veterans of that war that truly knows the details of the things that happened. Are starting to die because of old age. And if we don't start investigations for war Crimes soon. Those secrets will never come to light because there will be nobody left to tell them.
What the Ducth did in Indonesia was similar to what the French tried in IndoChina i.e. to re-colonize their colonies after the Japanese occupation. Harsh and tough campaigns of reconquest were launched on the local populations who resisted their colonial masters return. The Dutch colonial regimes were not innocent of crimes against Indonesians because Colonialism is a form of Slavery as it involved Repressions, Oppression and Suppression by one race over another.
+Gues Who we kick greedy dutch from papua to ther small pieces of shit place so we indonesia can enjoy our independence without worried that your kind of greedy people still close to us.. so fuck of
Knowing what we know now in 2020, it's very interesting watching news clips from that time period and the 'news' they told the public. You can see it was outright lies. Watch them and it's like you're watching some Machiavellian plot.
@@xrider5468 Papua was stolen by Indonesia.
Papua shoot be free and the Moluccans should be free too..
Indonesian government is a colonist, just like the Dutch were! Nothing different..
Long live RMS!
Niet waar .de terroristen waren de beesten..Ned heeft keurig g3dragen
Exessen heb je altijd..mensen draaien door..Soekarno heeft 2 miljoen mensen vetmoord .amnestie int rapport ..democrstisch jhhha onzin .moordende moslims bendes
Whats annoying in this comment section is when dutch people have to point out other peoples history and other peoples war crimes rather than talk about what they did in indonesia and them helping the nazis.
It becomes ironic when the court of war criminals is in Den Haag..
Zo belangrijk en waardevol deze informatie. Als je de zwarte bladzijden uit de Nederlandse geschiedenis weg moffelt of verdoezelt kunnen we niet van de fouten leren. En het is ook behoorlijk hypocriet.
and of course this history will never be repeated. there should not be any colonialism let alone be repeated by the dutch over our country, Indonesia.
Inggeris, Itali, Perancis, Jerman, Portugis, Sepanyol dan Belanda aktif menjajah dan berbagi wilayah2 di Afrika dan Asia juga Americas sejak abad ke 13 hingga 17. Mereka punya ilmu dan teknologi.
Menurut saya, yang dilakukan oleh Belanda dulu karena ingin "mencoba" untuk menguasai kembali Indonesia setelah Jepang menyerah kepada Sekutu. Itu bisa diterima akal sehat. Tetapi yang dilakukan oleh Westerling, tidak bisa diterima oleh akal sehat. Kejam sekali!
I understand why Dutch denies having done violence in Indonesia because it is really embarrassing. They teach to the young generation with good thing, while their ancestor did an embarrassing deed in Indonesia.
Giyono1970 this is an old documentary, these days it’s taught in history class what the Dutch army did
@Dewie Dunn FYI Madiun massacre was not done by Indonesian republic but rather the Communist and other radicals in order to gain revolution and went as far creating soviet states in east java. The bersiap massacre while it is in fact has violence in its era, the background for its incident is because the Indonesian wanted a revenge to those who've been colonizing Indonesia. Sulawesi massacre? the only massacre that i know happened in sulawesi was the one that Westerling did, idk which one were you referring about. And about us denying our violence, it actually similar to the Dutch, we never denied it but rather most of us isn't educated enough about our own history and only know basic history about who's colonizing us and what they did (similiar to the average Dutch/Indonesian only know they were invaded by the German and the Dutch)
@Dewie Dunn oh you dutch always use that logic. If you poke someone in the eye, then expect you will be poked in the eye as well.
@@a.r.m.310 I don't know what is the bigger irony here. the fact that you don't know how good the Dutch actually were for the Indonesians up to ww2.
or the fact that the age-old saying is; an eye for an eye makes the world blind, and two wrongs don't make a right.
The problem of Indonesia is that its like the former Yugoslavia. If their government doesnt do anything to lift the standard of living for their people, Indonesia will not have a future. The problem is not the dutch but the corruption and incompetence of government officials.As for Dutch East Indies, their history is more complex than this childrens documenatries. I expected more from Indonesians to learn a more detailed history but it seems that they didnt. Indonesia in the current borders was achieved by the dutch in 1890s, so Indonesia inherited something barely 50 years old. The presence of dutch in Indonesia was 300 years but not the control. The dutch will start to assert their control on the arhipelago only after 1815 when the british will give them back the forts in the arhipelago . In the times of napoleonic wars the dutch choose to be with France so the british conquered in 1806 the dutch forts from Java, Sumatra and some islands. To their horror the british discovered that not only the dutch didnt fully control the islands but they paid tribute to javanese and sumatra kingdoms in exchange for their trade and also the dutch acted and dressed like the local people and not like europeans. So when, in 1815 , the british gave back to the dutch a much enlarged territory, the new dutch authorities came with a new objective, that is, to really control the arhipelago. It was at that time when little by little the duch began to strenghten their control. The problem was the Netherlands wasnt able to draw a large manpower like the british( who had a much larger population but also the indian subcontinent to draw soldiers)so they nedded to find some loyal locals ,and since Indonesia has over 600 ethnic groups, the dutch found ethnic groups that supported them. The lasts territories to be conquered in 1890s were Aceh and Papua. After 1870s when Germany and Japan emerged as world powers and started to colonize in Pacific, made the dutch to hurry to asert their control in what theiy considered their sphere of influence. But all of this they couldnt managed without huge local support. Without that support, the dutch wouldnt have achived anything and probably whould have remained only with Java and south Sumatra, the rest of Indonesia would have been japanese and german colonies.After ww1 japanese for sure. As for what happened after ww2 that too is complex. From japanese occupation benefited mostly Java because it was more urban and sophisticated. The rest resisted the japanese. In Maluku, Aceh, Papua, Kalimantan ,the japanese met with fierce resistance. In Papua the locals helped very much the british. So after ww2 with the exception of Java , the dutch were welcome almost anywhere else. Local support also helped the dutch to capture the republican government in 1949. Actually it was Great Powers pressure on the Netherlands, especially USA , that persuaded Netherlands to give Indonesia independence. For the Republican government that was in a sense the easy part, the tough part being suppresing revolts from Sulawesi, Maluku, Papua, Aceh etc. There are still problems today that the indonesian government was unable to resolve, the only good news being that nowadays the Indonesian economy, as it is today, its much better than all of Africa economies combined. Lets hope that the future brings more good news for indonesian people.
That's very right. We have serious corruption problem and crocked politicians. I can't say much about Soekarno's regime bc it was the era of turbulence with Islamic rebellions, the communist, etc. But the new order (Order Baroe) really fucked us very badly. The Soeharto's regime was very Java centrist, that and the fact he is the world's most corrupt leader in 20th century. The current president is very capable leader but he is surrounded by greedy politicians. Not forget to mention we are facing the rise of Islamic fundamentalist that start to divide the people. Fortunately, we still have moderate Islamic organizations and ulemas to counter the far right Muslim group
Seorang rakan keturunan Belanda ku yg lahir dan besar di New Zealand ( 5 tahun ku bekerja di NZ dan kini menetap di Australia) , berkata arwah datuknya bekerja dengan Dutch East India company. Beliau dgn bangga dan sedikit bongkak, berkata dgn berseloroh suatu hari nanti beliau akan kembali menjajah Indonesia. Lol! Belanda ooh Belanda!
LOL! 😂😂😂
Sy org S'pure tlh bjumpe dgn saorg belande & die tlh meluahkan prasean kesal mgape org Indo tlh mhalau mrk keluar dr Indo alangkan mrk tlh mbangunkan negare itu...& die yakin yg suatu ari nanti mrk akan kembali utk mguasai Indo...tp buat sy wlpon bkn saorg warge Indo mgagap tu hanye hayalan romance kegemilangan nostalgia belande yg x akan muncul buat selame2 nye krn power belande tu snd ade lah 'spend bullet'.
@@kamaruzamanbt3825 lol. Sudah susah terwujud kerana Indonesia walaupun secara militer biasa2 saja tapi bisa memainkan politik yg mengarah ke PRC atau ke Russia. Belanda yg anggota Nato sepertinya Tak bakal bisa berlaku banyak sebab saat ini Nato Dan Russia dalam situasi berkompomi. Itu sebabnya Ukraine Tak bisa jadi anggota NATO kerana Russia tak bakal setuju Hal itu
Thx voor uploadingheb net de brandende campongs uit maar dat laat niets heel van het leger en de wegkijkende politici !!
yeah dutch politician and for all dutch people!
It's a shame. Wonder why the international court of justice is located in the Hague?
Its like a double life of a serial killer.
2:59 Yes. I think it is. Then when know how to think of it.
Dutch and German are cousins, almost same language spoken? Nazis and Dutch in Indonesia behaved similarly - ruthless. Not surprising.
The point of the video is that all people behave similarly.
@@danrose2517 No the point of the video, is that the Dutch do not take responsibility for their atrocities! Neither did they take any responsibility for their 80% Jewish population dying.
@@anglojojo you clearly lack comprehension and perspective. All peoples are like this, this video is about confronting your own past. Also 70% of Dutch Jews were deported because of the citizen registry, which noted religious affiliation and was much more thorough than in most other countries.
@@duncandl910 Wrong and it was more like 90% of Dutch Jews were hunted down by the Dutch police and other Dutch volunteers. Then with the help of NS Dutch train service all deported to be killed in the death camps. But all you narcs wanna just talk about is Anna Frank.
Btw the NS rail company paid out compensations to the survivors only at the end of 2018, with a small sum of ~10K EURO.
Arms embargo was imposed on Indonesia on 1991 for human rights violations and only lifted in 2005. EU did the same in 2000.
Bedank
Kalo ad translate indonesia
We got a deal if Yuliana, his parliament and his troops in Indonesia was declared as a war criminal
" ..... Pemerintah Belanda tida ada hak kasi kritik Pemerintah Russia sekarang di Negara Ukraïn/Europa, sekarang jaman bahru, oleh karna mereka sendiri bikin juga begitu di prang Aceh/Asia, tempo dulu .... " Tanah air Aceh, satu Negara bebas, pemerintah belanda bikin "prang Genocide" ... sayanglah kitaorang Maluku dipakaï didalam prang belanda itu ...."
the dutch sweep the negative history onder the carpet
here's my opinion as being born part indonesian and part dutch. as much as i understand why indonesians are angry, recognize the fact that are you being angry for the sake of being angry or because you really want change to occur? what will happen if you get angry, if you attack them? if anything you'll increase animosity between the two countries and leave a bad impression. what do you want out of an apology anyway? money???? no amount of money donated from another country can help this one, the amount of shit our country is in no way their fault any longer. if you look at history you'll see our ancestors, the Majapahit kingdom for example, has always had a track record/curse of in-fighting that has led to the destruction of their home. why??? because of that same anger. let it go, udahlah, it's in the past.
but it also does not mean your anger is irrational, i can understand and you're allowed to feel that way. but feel it, do not attack, and let it go. take the highroad, and furthermore we have committed atrocities to Papua and Timor Leste. are we apologizing??? haven't seen any of that so far :/ we're just as bad as any country who has committed atrocities alike for the wealth of the land. but obviously we don't want to stay bad forever right, and the only way to not stay 'bad' anymore is to begin by taking the high-road and go above anger and apologize, look at ourselves, instead of looking outside.
be careful to who you point your finger at because your other four fingers are pointing right back at you.
jangan urusin ini lagi, sibukin negara sendiri daripada 'oh ya kan belanda blablabla' 'jepang kan blablabla' ENOUGH. FOCUS ON YOUR LIFE. daripada marah" mending pake energi itu utk nolongin negara bukan utk nuduh" negara lain dulu.
as to those who are of the netherlands reading this, it's honestly up to you how you feel about this. i'm not a citizen of the netherlands and i have little say and insight regarding what you feel. i'm willing to let this go, i just hope you won't take too many mean comments to heart. go the high-road too, if you'd like and if you don't then that's up to you.
So simply, you have this opinion because you are not fully Indonesian
More interesting to talk about rokus bernardus visser (mohammad idjon djanbi)
Saya kira jika disaman Belanda, 1 bilion dolar bagi setiap tahun Belanda menjajah dan penghinaan ke atas rakyat Indonesia, diguna bikin puluhan sekolah, hospital juga memperbaiki dan bina expressway baru dll. Idea gila ku...🤔
Saya tak paham maksud saudara. Coba dengan bahasa Indonesia. Atau mungkin anda orang Malayan?
@@rahmanuddin6584 org melayu dia itu. Pada dasarnya beliau berandai jika setiap I sen yg di curi Belanda dari indonesia di kembalikan ke tanah air maka uang nya bisa di gunakan utk membangun infrastruktur kyk sekolah, rumah sakit Dan lain2. Tapi kenyataanya Kita yg harus bayar hutang Belanda Dan war reparations
I can tell you that in Indonesian history taught at schools, no colonizers more despised than Dutch. Not English, not Spanish, not Portuguese, not even Japan. That is why Dutch language is gone as soon as Indonesia declared independence. French and English colonies still mantain their colonizer's language. Not here.
Peace from Indonesia.
No offense but the fact that there is no Dutch spoken in Indonesia has nothing to do with what the Dutch did in Indonesia. (what is terrible I don't deny that) But the reason why Dutch has not become a large Language in Indonesia is unlike all the other colonies. Dutch was never the first language when it was colonized. Only the small elite spoke Dutch because they where the only ones that where taught Dutch. Unlike British colonies where everybody even the smallest walks of life where forced to speak English. When the Dutch left Indonesia most Indonesians did not even know how to speak Dutch. You know that the Belgium King is one of the worst mass murders in the world? He killed 6 million citizens in the Congo. That is just as many people as all the Jews murdered in WW2. And they where killed in a 10 times more brutal way. By hanging, shooting rape and so on. They even had the tradition to cut off hands and legs. No other colony has suffered so much as The Belgium Congo. But they still speak Belgian French in the Congo. Why? Because the entire country learned French. The British had concentration camps in South Africa. If you look at History many countries did horrible things with their colonies. Some worst then Indonesia others less. And yet all those countries still speak the colonial language. For one simple reason. It was their main language when it was a colony. Not Indonesia. There is another easy way where you can see proof that the Dutch did not colonized the way other colonies did. Just look at religion. Most colonies. Like most of the African Continent. The South American continent. All of them are mainly Christians. Why? Because the British, the Portuguese and the Spanish forced their language upon it's colonies. Just like their language. No south American country was Christian before the Spanish came. Now there is no other big religion there. Indonesia is one of the largest Muslim countries in the world. Not Protestant Christian like Holland. It's because we did not colonize Indonesia like other colonies. That is why Indonesia don't speak Dutch. It's true the Netherlands did terrible things. I'm sure they are hated just like many countries hate the British, the French, The Belgium, the Spanish and so on. But it has nothing to do with the language Indonesia speaks. It just did not make sense to maintain a language that most of the entire population did not know. Only the small government elite knew Dutch.
In those History lesson how much are you taught about East-Timor and Papua?
Most Indonesian didn't talk Dutch onley some who had the oppurtinity of education . Indonesian identity didn't exist in the past there was no unity. There were al lot of different people from Bali, Java, Lombok, Timor , Atjeh etc.
The Dutch collonials could onley survive in collaboration with the local rullers and people.
The reality is much more complicated as what you seems to have been taught.
Salam
Arjan Molenaar
Melayu Pasar is the language trade and lingua franca across Nusantara. Bahasa Indonesia was derived from there. I know that Dutch is the language of elites. We may consist of many tribes and ethnic but we have declared on Sumpah Pemuda 1928 that we are Indonesian people with common homeland and common language Bahasa Indonesia.
Dutch did differ in mantaining colony. They exploited human and natural resource and they would export it to the foreign countries. That's why a tiny country like Netherland have become rich. If you remember Cultuur Stelsel, we Indonesians translate it as Tanam Paksa (Forced Plantation). Dutch evangelized as many Indonesians as they could but Islamic stronghold were too powerful and resistant to their colonization. To face this problem, an orientalist named Snouck Hurgronje "converted to Islam" and became a mufti of Batavia. This is known as izhar (showing to people as a muslim but showing to Dutch the opposite). Yes, he was a munafiq (hypocrites). Only Moloccans were known to be loyal to the queen. That's because they were mainly Protestants. VOC also maintained monopoly by Devide et Impera politics between Islamic sultanates. VOC went bankrupt because of corruption and credit failure.
British was the master of colonization. They improved their subjects and create a free market in their colony. That's why Commonwealth stand strong till today. Meanwhile, RIS (Indonesia Federal Republic) proposed by Dutch was abandoned and changed to NKRI (Unitary States of Republic of Indonesia).
Remember the VOC was a international trade company not onley " Dutch " investers were involved ,probely there were also ïndonesian investors . The royal families and local rolers were wealthy some of them byond our imagination also from explotation of the local people ,war and trade.
The Mataram impire collapsed because of internal war. It was diveded in Surakarta and Jokjokarta .
VOC collapsed .the French occupied the "Netherlands" .The English took over Indonesia. The Dutch came back. The "cultuurstelsel'" was introduced with collaboration of the local rullers but they hadn't the power they used to have . Indonesia was develeped. The people gained some wealth, material goods and food. Later hospitals and education. The "Dutch" fought against slavery and poverty in the same way they did in the Netherlands, for example abolishing child labour in the Netherlands.
The islamisation of Indonesia toke place from the 1600 by conviction by convincing and by force. In the same time the VOC was actief. Who were the people bringing the Islam to Indonesia ,and the "Jihad"? Not the European ,i supose. The history was complex, not two sided.
So the situation that a moslim majority was ruled by "kafir" arised . The Indonesion identity arised.
A small country as the Netherlands never could rule Indonesia without the cooperation/collaboration of the people of Indonesia. After ww2 the resistance came and the Dutch had to go.
By the way Islam has "Takya" ,if iam correct, meaning you may deceive and lie to your enemy ,the kafir .
It's a strategy not hypocraty.
To many lost in history kolonializem in the indonesia, and people of Netherlands must know the real what happened in Indonesia. In history Indonesia, kolonializem in Indonesia to long time, 350 years. Yo can search in bock of schools history in Indonesia and my in internet.
Penduduk Tamil Malaysia beberapa tahun lalu 'menyaman' Britain 2 bilion dolar kerana dijadikan buruh di Malaya.
Bagi Belanda, Indonesia cuman perahan, budak yg dianggap setara dgn hewan.....kasihan sekali dulu nenek moyangku harus mengalami penindasan seperti itu, penderitaan tak terperikan, .....tapi Belanda tdk pernah mengakyi itu, bahkan mahkamah internasional berpusat di Belanda, ironis kan? Semoga tdk ada lagi penjajahan manusia thd manusia lain, kalau benar kau beragama dan takut Tuhan, berindaklah sesuai nilai nilai agama dan perikemanusiaan
cuma Indonesia lebih besar...
A country occupied for years by the German military then immediately embarks upon a war in Indonesia in an attempt to hold on to colonial power. What a fucking joke. My father served 4 years in Indonesia, by conscription.
I am Dutch I am aware..like most of my countryman .but doesnt every empire comit these crimes,,no empire was ever founded by being nive. Not defending what happened, but does it really serve anyone to linger and put blame. Almost noone is alive who was there....who exactly are you blaming?
Rob Voncken Ten eerste denk ik niet dat wat je in een ander comment had gesuggereerd waarde heeft. De opmerking om het aan onze generatie de schuld er van te geven zou sowieso niet logisch zijn, en wordt de schuld ook gegeven aan de Nederlandse staat, niet de inwoners die niet geboren waren des tijd. En wat je ook zegt is dat veel Nederlanders hier van op de hoogte zijn. Ik ben zelf een leerling in mijn eindexamen en na 6 jaar onderwijs heb ik het nooit gehad over de oorlogsmisdaden in Indonesië. De kern van die video is natuurlijk hoe spreken wij hier over in onze huidige geschiedenis, en helaas doen we dat niet. Ik zeg niet dat we het er over moeten hebben en dan boos roepen “ZIE JE HET ZIJN DIE BLANKE”, want genoeg KNIL soldaten deden mee en heeft ras hier niks mee te maken. Ik denk dat we dat debat beter kunnen voeren dan maar naar elkaar te roepen
@@jasondeweerd8044 ik weet dat wij er destijds vrij veel over gesproken hebben, zal dus wel per school verschillen dan. En inderdaad het iedere keer op een ras gooien is complete onzin.
of course nothing. no one. but until now? your country and all of crimes from colonialism you've country done to us? never try asking for apologize. 126 years for what you've done to us?
@@irmakharisma2198 actually they did several times. But let me put this in another way. before the west appeared there will have been competing nations in this region and for a while there will have been groups dominatiing the rest. No doubt not avoidng violence if they had to. Do you still blame them? How come you still blame us? What was even the value of the apology..save some poor person in a retirement home, there is really noone alive that remembers. An apology in those settings are just empty words. In fact i do it right now I apolgize now did that help??
@@irmakharisma2198 Can you stop with that ''us'' talk? You were not even born then so stop victimizing yourself.
Minute 20:02 this man is illnest and demoniac for death, he enjoy the memories and love the war¡¡ very impresive¡
I think you’re wrong there. That man was the first soldier in that war to turn against his higher ups by telling the Dutch public senseless war crimes were being committed under its flag.
He’s laughing at the absurdity of what he saw, not because he enjoyed the moment. This guy went through hell to get the truth out there.
boehoe lets blame the people who came 2 generations after sad
It's not about who blame who but a matter of admittance. Both side did crime against one another during the independence war, but long before that the indonesian were just slaves to the dutchs. Only when the Japan arrived the indonesian nationalism got recognized even though that wasn't pure
At 14:44, Joop Hueting, you and your colleagues are murderous war criminals. 20:04 you even managed to smile when telling accounts of your patrol inhumane conduct at the Indonesian village mosque. These bastards should be put on trial at the International Criminal Court.
Dhuan Absa, Indonesia and The Netherlands agreed not to bring any person before the judge and there is a good reason for that.
Rene Logtenberg. Both sides had committed war crimes? During 80s right up to early 2000s the US had enforced some economic and military hardwares sanctions on Indonesia because of human rights abuses? It's an open secret and the whole world knew. The Netherlands? The videos here are your own admission. You're admitting the the atrocities yourselves in the videos like one here. What more to say.
@@dhuanabsa774 yes now the world is only waiting for honest Indonesian historians like Prof. Ariel Heryono. You have the first one in house.
Rene Logtenberg The world is a bad place. A sad place to live in.
Rene Logtenberg ??