My mum is rewatching and I’m watching with her on weekends. It’s like watching a train wreck in slow motion. God, it’s still agony twenty years later. 😢
Wow this was so refreshing to see! I feel like I've never seen a video focusing on the friendship between these two. Very unexpected but I loved it so much! The drastic turn that their friendship took was always hard for me to watch. A real shame when I look back at it but they did have some really great moments, both before their fallout and after and you really showcased them brilliantly here. Fantastic editing. The song you picked works perfectly and you scene placement was amazing. Enjoyed this video a lot xD Thank you for consistently making great Buffyverse content!
Thank you! I agree with everything you said. And I'm glad people are still interested in seeing Buffyverse videos, the shows have so many amazing characters and dynamics that it's an endless source of inspiration to me!
Aaaww yay I'm really glad you finally made a video about this friendship. Of course, we have talked about this subject at length over the years, and I hate the way this relationship was sacrificed for some bullshit reasons and was never really able to recover. Because it was just so sweet and special in season 2. They deserved better. I think you handled this perfectly. You didn't shy away from the angst, but you showed the positive outweighing the negative. I got really emotional at the "I know that makes me...I don't know what that makes me." "I don't know what kind of man I am anymore" parallel. Poor lost babies! But this is why the AI family is so great. They were all kind of misfits who were lost that came together to find their place! :') Oh I so love the "opposites at birth" thing where you show their first introductions, and just from those quick clips we see how Wes was raised in this posh, haughty way while Gunn came from a very different background. But then you go from that to them both trying and "failing" to help others! It shows that even though they originate from different ends of the spectrum, they both have the same huge caring hearts. And ouch...the stark contrast between the scene of Gunn by Wesley's bedside in the hospital to Wes all alone...wow. That was really painful and powerful! Aaaww Gunn's reaction to Illyria telling them that Wes is dead...I am so used to focusing on Angel in that moment (and same for the final scene of them together), because obviously I am partial to that, as it is my fave Buffyverse friendship, so I never really gave enough notice to the Wes/Gunn of those two scenes. I am really moved and happy that you made me pay attention to that here! This was gorgeous!!
Ahhh thank you! This vid was a little hard to make, not technically, because I put it together as quickly as most of my other vids lol, but EMOTIONALLY!! Because their story is just so upsetting! And unlike Wes/Angel, who went through a VERY rough patch but came out arguably stronger for it, Wes/Gunn never really recovered. And yeah the scene where Gunn just cries when he finds out Wes is dead always stuck out to me, like even after all the pain they put each other through Gunn is still so upset that Wes has died that he CRIES! So there was obviously still love there, and probably a lot of regret as to how everything was handled the last few years, or at least I'd like to believe that's what was going through his mind in that moment lol.
lol thank you!! Believe me, I felt rather sad making the vid. When I watched the finished project, at the moment when Wes stabs Gunn I was like "UGHH WHY DID I MAKE THISSS" lol but I am glad I finally vidded this dynamic.
@@1SnoWhiteQueen1 Yeah, I really feel like the decline in their friendship all started because of the Wes-Fred-Gunn love triangle drama, which is sad that they let something like that drive a wedge between them... obviously, there were other issues, but I feel that that's what started it all (I mean, Wes was upset that Gunn got the girl, and Gunn was insecure in his relationship which made him over-eager in choosing sides during the Wes-Angel situation at the end of s3/beginning of s4)... damn, they really deserved better
I agreeee, like you could argue that there were other underlying issues, and yeah there WERE, like how their differing stances on morality were brought up in Pylea (with Gunn being very upset by Wes sacrificing some of the rebels for the greater good) and the whole awkwardness of That Old Gang of Mine...but really the thing that seemed to *actually* end the friendship and turn them against each other was...Fred. Which is just so lame :/ If the writers really wanted to drive a wedge between them I would have preferred they just expand on the earlier established problems, instead of uninspired love triangle garbage lol. And yess I hate to admit it but I do feel like part of Gunn being able to cut Wes off so quickly was because he was relieved he was out of the picture. Their feelings for Fred pitted both of them against each other and made them feel insecure. Wes felt he wasn't physically strong enough, Gunn felt he wasn't smart enough, aghhhh I hated it lol
@@1SnoWhiteQueen1 Yess!!! Like, they had so much more interesting underlying issues that could've torn them apart like that instead of Fred... And as I'm thinking about this more- and this may be a bit of a stretch but- it's possible that, in the same way that Wesley seemed to only like Fred bc she represented what "good" is supposed to be and what he should want, I feel that his conflict with Gunn stemmed from the jealousy of Gunn not having to make the same morally gray choices that he has had to. Wes's whole struggle (mainly in s4) is him striving to be better, wanting to see things as B&W even though he knows they are gray. I feel like since Wes is the "intelligent one" of the group, he is forced to make all the hard decisions, like Angel said in s5... Gunn, on the other hand, was mainly used as the muscle, so he wasn't constantly burdened with those choices like Wes was. This allowed him to see morality in a more black & white way. And I feel like Wes was subconsciously jealous of that. And, Gunn, in contrast wasn't as understanding of Wes's actions bc he wasn't put in those kinds of situations... And, bc Wes knows Gunn isn't burdened by that, it fuelled his obsession with Fred, bc he wants to see things as B&W like Gunn does. To him, Gunn's morals are completely good and that is why he got to be with Fred. So, he feels that if he could see things the way Gunn does, then he would get the girl that represents goodness to him. Of course, later on Gunn becomes just as gray as the rest of them as he is forced to make more and more hard decisions (like when he killed that professor for Fred or when he knocked out that kid during the whole Jasmine thing)... And, I feel like as this happened Gunn began to understand Wes more, so it slowly helped to mend their friendship again (although not completely)... that is, until Fred died and it started fracturing their healing dynamic- one that, in my opinion, never completely healed before Wes died, which I'm still bitter about lol. (Also, sorry if what I'm saying makes no sense lol- I was just writing it as I was thinking it. I put no thought into it ahead of time... so it might be a bit incoherent lol)
lol no I understand what you are saying! And yeah interesting points, I would not be surprised at all if Wes was jealous or felt inferior to Gunn because he felt Gunn was the "morally better" man and that is probably one of the reasons Fred liked him better. I mean, Fred basically just outright says this in Supersymmetry when she enlists Wesley's help to commit murder because Gunn "doesn't have it in him" which is why she loves him, she says. Gunn is a good man so she won't have him sully his hands with blood, but Wes is a trashbag who already has low morals so it's not big deal if he's an accomplice I guess lol. Sorry to make this veer into anti-Fred territory but that scene came to mind reading your theory and OMG it always makes me so mad lol. And I agree it seemed like Wes/Gunn were mending their relationship in late s4/s5 until Fred died and killed any hope of them being that close again. Which is...super upsetting lol. Because yeah I too def feel they were coming to a place where they were back to being able to understand each other again. One scene I def like a lot is in the s4 finale where Gunn says something callous about Lilah but then realizes he upset Wes and immediately apologizes and attempts to open up a conversation about Wes' feelings for Lilah, letting Wes know he can talk about this with him if he wants. Idk I just thought that was classy of him lol because it's not like Gunn was Lilah's biggest fan, being the enemy and source of so many problems, but he knows she means something to Wesley so instead of being uncomfortable and avoiding the topic, he's sympathetic and open minded! Idk I just thought it was very sweet lol. And it showed there was hope for them to mend their friendship and get to a positive place again. My heart hurts. LOL
My mum is rewatching and I’m watching with her on weekends. It’s like watching a train wreck in slow motion. God, it’s still agony twenty years later. 😢
Their friendship was so wholesome before all the Fred drama😭
I can’t stop crying, I loved their friendship so much
Wow this was so refreshing to see! I feel like I've never seen a video focusing on the friendship between these two. Very unexpected but I loved it so much! The drastic turn that their friendship took was always hard for me to watch. A real shame when I look back at it but they did have some really great moments, both before their fallout and after and you really showcased them brilliantly here. Fantastic editing. The song you picked works perfectly and you scene placement was amazing. Enjoyed this video a lot xD Thank you for consistently making great Buffyverse content!
Thank you! I agree with everything you said. And I'm glad people are still interested in seeing Buffyverse videos, the shows have so many amazing characters and dynamics that it's an endless source of inspiration to me!
They both had such an awesome friendship. Even with their heated feud around Fred Gunn ended up being mature and awesome about the whole situation.
yep, I cried. such a gorgeous relationship that went down the tubes because of awful writing. thank-you for this.
Aaaww yay I'm really glad you finally made a video about this friendship. Of course, we have talked about this subject at length over the years, and I hate the way this relationship was sacrificed for some bullshit reasons and was never really able to recover. Because it was just so sweet and special in season 2. They deserved better. I think you handled this perfectly. You didn't shy away from the angst, but you showed the positive outweighing the negative.
I got really emotional at the "I know that makes me...I don't know what that makes me." "I don't know what kind of man I am anymore" parallel. Poor lost babies! But this is why the AI family is so great. They were all kind of misfits who were lost that came together to find their place! :') Oh I so love the "opposites at birth" thing where you show their first introductions, and just from those quick clips we see how Wes was raised in this posh, haughty way while Gunn came from a very different background. But then you go from that to them both trying and "failing" to help others! It shows that even though they originate from different ends of the spectrum, they both have the same huge caring hearts.
And ouch...the stark contrast between the scene of Gunn by Wesley's bedside in the hospital to Wes all alone...wow. That was really painful and powerful! Aaaww Gunn's reaction to Illyria telling them that Wes is dead...I am so used to focusing on Angel in that moment (and same for the final scene of them together), because obviously I am partial to that, as it is my fave Buffyverse friendship, so I never really gave enough notice to the Wes/Gunn of those two scenes. I am really moved and happy that you made me pay attention to that here!
This was gorgeous!!
Ahhh thank you! This vid was a little hard to make, not technically, because I put it together as quickly as most of my other vids lol, but EMOTIONALLY!! Because their story is just so upsetting! And unlike Wes/Angel, who went through a VERY rough patch but came out arguably stronger for it, Wes/Gunn never really recovered.
And yeah the scene where Gunn just cries when he finds out Wes is dead always stuck out to me, like even after all the pain they put each other through Gunn is still so upset that Wes has died that he CRIES! So there was obviously still love there, and probably a lot of regret as to how everything was handled the last few years, or at least I'd like to believe that's what was going through his mind in that moment lol.
This was the best friendship on Angel for me.
😭😭THE FEELS😭 I love their friendship so much! It always hurts me remembering they aren’t as close as they used to be
Beautiful tribute to two great characters. You captured the essence of their friendship :)
Such a beautiful video for a truly complex friendship. Absolutely loved your editing!
I'm not crying, there's just water on my face.
i dont even know them but now i am sad about them too,
great work
and thanks for making and sharing this
This is such a lovely overview of their relationship, and I love the parallels you included. Great song choice!
Such a beautiful, complex friendship, you nailed it with this video and I’m crying now lol. ❤️
OMG YES YOU DID A MASTERPIECE AGAIN, AAAAH!! I'm so happy you made a WG video!! But now I feel a bit sad after watching it, lol
lol thank you!! Believe me, I felt rather sad making the vid. When I watched the finished project, at the moment when Wes stabs Gunn I was like "UGHH WHY DID I MAKE THISSS" lol but I am glad I finally vidded this dynamic.
❤️❤️ I cried... The Boys of Angel Are so damn well written and great actors
Great video!😊 I loved this dynamic sm, and I'm still so sad how it all went so downhill 😕
Thank you! And yeah I will always be sad about the way their friendship just deteriorated over time :(
@@1SnoWhiteQueen1 Yeah, I really feel like the decline in their friendship all started because of the Wes-Fred-Gunn love triangle drama, which is sad that they let something like that drive a wedge between them... obviously, there were other issues, but I feel that that's what started it all (I mean, Wes was upset that Gunn got the girl, and Gunn was insecure in his relationship which made him over-eager in choosing sides during the Wes-Angel situation at the end of s3/beginning of s4)... damn, they really deserved better
I agreeee, like you could argue that there were other underlying issues, and yeah there WERE, like how their differing stances on morality were brought up in Pylea (with Gunn being very upset by Wes sacrificing some of the rebels for the greater good) and the whole awkwardness of That Old Gang of Mine...but really the thing that seemed to *actually* end the friendship and turn them against each other was...Fred. Which is just so lame :/ If the writers really wanted to drive a wedge between them I would have preferred they just expand on the earlier established problems, instead of uninspired love triangle garbage lol.
And yess I hate to admit it but I do feel like part of Gunn being able to cut Wes off so quickly was because he was relieved he was out of the picture. Their feelings for Fred pitted both of them against each other and made them feel insecure. Wes felt he wasn't physically strong enough, Gunn felt he wasn't smart enough, aghhhh I hated it lol
@@1SnoWhiteQueen1 Yess!!! Like, they had so much more interesting underlying issues that could've torn them apart like that instead of Fred... And as I'm thinking about this more- and this may be a bit of a stretch but- it's possible that, in the same way that Wesley seemed to only like Fred bc she represented what "good" is supposed to be and what he should want, I feel that his conflict with Gunn stemmed from the jealousy of Gunn not having to make the same morally gray choices that he has had to. Wes's whole struggle (mainly in s4) is him striving to be better, wanting to see things as B&W even though he knows they are gray. I feel like since Wes is the "intelligent one" of the group, he is forced to make all the hard decisions, like Angel said in s5... Gunn, on the other hand, was mainly used as the muscle, so he wasn't constantly burdened with those choices like Wes was. This allowed him to see morality in a more black & white way. And I feel like Wes was subconsciously jealous of that. And, Gunn, in contrast wasn't as understanding of Wes's actions bc he wasn't put in those kinds of situations... And, bc Wes knows Gunn isn't burdened by that, it fuelled his obsession with Fred, bc he wants to see things as B&W like Gunn does. To him, Gunn's morals are completely good and that is why he got to be with Fred. So, he feels that if he could see things the way Gunn does, then he would get the girl that represents goodness to him. Of course, later on Gunn becomes just as gray as the rest of them as he is forced to make more and more hard decisions (like when he killed that professor for Fred or when he knocked out that kid during the whole Jasmine thing)... And, I feel like as this happened Gunn began to understand Wes more, so it slowly helped to mend their friendship again (although not completely)... that is, until Fred died and it started fracturing their healing dynamic- one that, in my opinion, never completely healed before Wes died, which I'm still bitter about lol. (Also, sorry if what I'm saying makes no sense lol- I was just writing it as I was thinking it. I put no thought into it ahead of time... so it might be a bit incoherent lol)
lol no I understand what you are saying! And yeah interesting points, I would not be surprised at all if Wes was jealous or felt inferior to Gunn because he felt Gunn was the "morally better" man and that is probably one of the reasons Fred liked him better. I mean, Fred basically just outright says this in Supersymmetry when she enlists Wesley's help to commit murder because Gunn "doesn't have it in him" which is why she loves him, she says. Gunn is a good man so she won't have him sully his hands with blood, but Wes is a trashbag who already has low morals so it's not big deal if he's an accomplice I guess lol. Sorry to make this veer into anti-Fred territory but that scene came to mind reading your theory and OMG it always makes me so mad lol.
And I agree it seemed like Wes/Gunn were mending their relationship in late s4/s5 until Fred died and killed any hope of them being that close again. Which is...super upsetting lol. Because yeah I too def feel they were coming to a place where they were back to being able to understand each other again. One scene I def like a lot is in the s4 finale where Gunn says something callous about Lilah but then realizes he upset Wes and immediately apologizes and attempts to open up a conversation about Wes' feelings for Lilah, letting Wes know he can talk about this with him if he wants. Idk I just thought that was classy of him lol because it's not like Gunn was Lilah's biggest fan, being the enemy and source of so many problems, but he knows she means something to Wesley so instead of being uncomfortable and avoiding the topic, he's sympathetic and open minded! Idk I just thought it was very sweet lol. And it showed there was hope for them to mend their friendship and get to a positive place again. My heart hurts. LOL
beautiful video!!! very well done!
you’re on J. August Richards’ story!
They remind me of my friendship
Let’s admit it; we all shipped Wes and Gunn as a couple.
One of my favorite friendships. I hate that it was ruined by a stupid, unnecessary love triangle.
They were brothers before they wrote Fred in.