Why The most POWERFUL Locomotive Was REBUILT 3 Times?!

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  • Опубліковано 28 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 141

  • @OnlyTheRightTrack
    @OnlyTheRightTrack  11 місяців тому +23

    Apologies i made an error! The p2 was not the most powerful in the world, only in Britain 😅. Thanks for correcting me lol

    • @maly2ts408
      @maly2ts408 11 місяців тому +3

      Also the title was steam train the train isn't steam only the locomotive or engine

    • @Braveplantt
      @Braveplantt 11 місяців тому +2

      WHAT?
      P2 IS THE MOST POWERFUL LOCO IN BRITAIN, IT WAS SAID AT ITS OWN WEBSITE, THE PRINCE OF WALES IS ABOUT TO BE BUILD AND IT IS A NEW BUILD, SO YOU'RE WRONG

    • @garrymartin6474
      @garrymartin6474 11 місяців тому +1

      So what happend to the Princess Coronations then ?

    • @TheHoveHeretic
      @TheHoveHeretic 11 місяців тому +1

      There are clips on this very platform of the superb model of Bugatti nosed No.2006 'Wolf of Badenoch' in 5in gauge. Very impressive it is too.

    • @timspiers6225
      @timspiers6225 11 місяців тому +2

      The P2s were not the most powerful. They may have had the highest tractive effort but the title of most powerful goes to the LMS Princess Coronations. The Princess Coronations have the highest officially recorded horse power of any British steam locomotive. 71000 Duke of Gloucester has been calculated to have exceeded even the mighty Princess Coronations. So we will see if the boiler on the new P2 is capable of steaming at a rate to challenge the afore mentioned.

  • @joshuaW5621
    @joshuaW5621 11 місяців тому +72

    Thompson gets an unfair reputation from the railway community, but to be fair, he did kinda do the P2s a favour in therms of reliability. I’m excited to see Prince of Wales once he’s out and running.

    • @vectorbrony3473
      @vectorbrony3473 11 місяців тому +12

      Thompson was not Anti-Gresley. He was a engineer who believe in reducing the time a locomotive was in for maintanece and making them more efficient.

    • @tajsmith5050
      @tajsmith5050 11 місяців тому +9

      In all fairness like the a1 trust is doing, a simple redesign was all that was really needed. Not complete rebuilds.

    • @landyandy7
      @landyandy7 11 місяців тому

      He was and openly admitted it because his father in law never got the head job with the LNER@@vectorbrony3473

    • @MichaelCampin
      @MichaelCampin 11 місяців тому +1

      If I am correct Thompson was the son in law of Stanier,who had a deep grudge against SNG as he was overlooked for the job at LNER hence Thompson ruined some of Gresleys best work as an act of revenge

    • @joshuaW5621
      @joshuaW5621 11 місяців тому +9

      @@MichaelCampin firstly, he was actually the son-in-law of Vincent Raven.
      Secondly, I don’t entirely know how true the part of him being overlooked is, but he didn’t try to ruin Gresley’s locomotives. He was running the LNER during the war so they didn’t have as much money as they needed so Thompson recommended making his locomotives as cheap and efficient as possible. If anything the P2’s reliability issues were cured from this rebuild of his.

  • @meltonin8837
    @meltonin8837 11 місяців тому +8

    Phew, that was exhaustingly fast! The P2s were unsuccessful for many reasons and the Thompson rebuild resulted in a more reliable engine with a higher percentage of availability. Can't see the point of building a replica of a failure when there are many other suitable LNER/pre-grouping candidates.

    • @polbecca
      @polbecca 11 місяців тому +3

      Point of order, David Elliott who designed Tornado and who sadly passed away last week, also did the designs for 2007 Prince of Wales. David had a deep understanding of the inherent technical problems of 2001 Cock o' the North, not just the problematic pony truck but the Lentz rotary valve gear. He corrected and improved the original Gresley design before any metal was cut. 2007 will be a fitting improved version of the original P2. Once completed its availability should be just as good as Tornado's.

    • @meltonin8837
      @meltonin8837 11 місяців тому

      Thanks for the update. So sorry to hear of Mr Elliott's passing. I'm sure the P2 will be a tremendous success, just as Tornado has been, and I look forward to seeing it run.

  • @thesudriana016
    @thesudriana016 11 місяців тому +15

    Fascinating video! I have to say, the LNER P2 Mikados really are stellar looking designs despite some mechanical problems they had in the making, and even Edward Thompson (who I resented the man) didn't help matters.
    I am looking forward to seeing Prince of Wales being completed in the near future. It's great that replicas of an existing steam locomotive class are being built.

    • @joshuaW5621
      @joshuaW5621 11 місяців тому +2

      He didn’t really resent Gresley.

  • @toomuchtoby1
    @toomuchtoby1 11 місяців тому +14

    A stellar video, we have here! Always was curious about all those rebuilds…

  • @Arkay315
    @Arkay315 11 місяців тому +6

    The LNER P2's were locomotives that pulled TRAINS. And not to mention there were probably thousands of locomotives stronger than the P2. For gods sake the LNER built the U1, it was stronger than the P2 and it lasted longer in service.

    • @joshuaW5621
      @joshuaW5621 10 місяців тому

      Why does nobody have a problem with the Unlucky Tug calling them Trains though?

  • @IsleofPigsStudios
    @IsleofPigsStudios 11 місяців тому +10

    Henry: I’ve got two shapes
    The first two P2s: Hold my coal

    • @OnlyTheRightTrack
      @OnlyTheRightTrack  11 місяців тому +2

      Hahaha

    • @TheLazyFusspot_3428
      @TheLazyFusspot_3428 11 місяців тому +1

      James had an extended running board and improved brakes, yet he's still nothing compared to the P2s.
      Also the LMS Jubilee is an example of a failed engine fixed into something much more.

    • @Kaidhicksii
      @Kaidhicksii 9 місяців тому

      Thomas was likely rebuilt from his original E2 configuration when he arrived on Sodor to be more reliable, and later had his front running board flattened, yet he's got nothing on the P2s either.

  • @1471SirFrederickBanbury
    @1471SirFrederickBanbury 11 місяців тому +4

    The editing was so well done and professional. Greeley’s design of the P2 was really close once he had the A4 front and Walshaerts valve gear. The main issues are that the crank wasn’t strong enough for the might of the loco and a small issue in his swing link design. The former is a simple fix (just like the other issues that arose from trying to keep weight down), but I don’t know how anyone has missed the issue/potential for the swing link. In its original form, it acts as a parallelogram, but if it was a trapezium, it could tilt the loco slightly by pushing down on the outside wheel in a curve, putting down more force where it is needed. Ps, wow this comment was longer than intended!

  • @TTTEoliverFan
    @TTTEoliverFan 10 місяців тому +1

    Another incredible video dude 🙌

  • @1_railfan
    @1_railfan 11 місяців тому +6

    I’m really looking forward to seeing 2007 Prince of Wales, there’s a speculation that the construction will be complete as well as the locomotive entering service in 2025. But for now, I’m looking forward to Tornado’s return to service from her overhaul in Spring 2024.

    • @OnlyTheRightTrack
      @OnlyTheRightTrack  11 місяців тому +3

      Me too haha

    • @mikesanders5433
      @mikesanders5433 11 місяців тому +4

      I was at the A1 Trust HQ last weekend.
      2007 is coming along nicely. Cylinder block is there now, tender frames and boiler due within the next month, track laying and earthworks for the turntable will continue over the next months also.
      The trust will shortly be starting the funding programme for the final major component the valve gear 🙂
      Tornado is in Loughborough and won’t be long until she’s back too.

  • @Mandolorian-ob9rk
    @Mandolorian-ob9rk 11 місяців тому +2

    Great video mate short but informational :) (I was the guy who previously had the idea for the Barry ten locomotives and where they are now )

  • @peterberry5442
    @peterberry5442 11 місяців тому +4

    It is not a train........it is a locomotive......get it right!

    • @ClinchfieldRailfan921
      @ClinchfieldRailfan921 10 місяців тому

      no

    • @joshuaW5621
      @joshuaW5621 10 місяців тому +1

      The Unlucky Tug: *calls them trains*
      Anyone else: *also calls them trains*
      TTTE fans: THEY’RE NOT TRAINS! TRAINS ARE WHAT THEY PULL! DO SOME RESEARCH!

  • @zashamelproductions69420
    @zashamelproductions69420 11 місяців тому +2

    i love P2's always happy to see a video about them

  • @donotwantahandle1111
    @donotwantahandle1111 11 місяців тому +1

    I would like to see a tug-of-war between the P2 and say a 9F or a King class!

  • @Steven_Rowe
    @Steven_Rowe 11 місяців тому +2

    It is a locomotive, a train is what a locomotive pulls, ie carriages or wagons

  • @MichaelCampin
    @MichaelCampin 11 місяців тому +1

    I've got 2 models of P2s one as built and one Streamlined

  • @Kaidhicksii
    @Kaidhicksii 9 місяців тому

    Short, sweet and to the point strikes again. I have only somewhat recently learned about them but never really got a straight answer as to why they weren't as successful as they should've been on paper: this is the first time I'm hearing of the trouble with the front pony truck. Regardless, I'm really looking forward to Prince of Wales' completion, and fingers crossed for the Cock O' The North rebuild, which I'm only just hearing of. Also, Earl Marischal is officially my favorite P2: it's number 2002 was the year I was born. :D

  • @ivator
    @ivator 11 місяців тому

    You're going places man! Keep up the good work!

  • @PhilMacVee
    @PhilMacVee 11 місяців тому

    Thanks for uploading this collection of clips. It's good to have them in one place.
    p.s. I'm sure you know that there is a difference between a "train" and a "locomotive" or "engine". The loco' or engine is the motive force for the train. The train comprises carriages and/or freight wagons attached to the loco' or engine.
    I hope your exams are coming along well.

  • @pacificostudios
    @pacificostudios 10 місяців тому

    Water-tube boilers were also tried on the Baltimore & Ohio and I think, the Delaware & Hudson. Like Duplex drive, they never lived up to the hopes of their designers. It would be interesting if there ever was one successful water-tube locomotive. For some reason, water-tube boilers work well in stationary and marine applications, but not on trains.

  • @Wildbean1
    @Wildbean1 11 місяців тому +1

    Wow! Another smashing video!

  • @Caledonianpug
    @Caledonianpug 11 місяців тому +1

    Very fascinating info
    I always thought the P2 looked strange

  • @LeoWasTaken.
    @LeoWasTaken. 11 місяців тому

    So entertaining, I'm definitely subscribing

  • @ThatOneGuyWhoCausesMayhem
    @ThatOneGuyWhoCausesMayhem 11 місяців тому +1

    It's sad that the p2s were scrapped, can't wait for Prince of Wales to be finished

  • @awesome-xk8vj
    @awesome-xk8vj 11 місяців тому

    Actually the London North Eastern Railway class U1 garratt locomotive is the strongest British steam locomotive with a tractive effort effort of 72,940 lbf (324,500 N) while the P2's tractive effort was 43,462 lbf (193.33 kN) and even then they weren't the most powerful passenger engines in the UK that honor goes to the London and North Eastern really class W1 AK the hush hush specifically in its rebuild streamlined shape because the tractive effort it had was Original Shape: 32,000 lbf (142.3 kN)
    Rebuilt Shape: 41,437 lbf (184.3 kN) officially making it the most powerful non-article locomotive in the UK while the U1 guard is the most powerful steam locomotive in the UK in general.

  • @Spencerrailway990
    @Spencerrailway990 11 місяців тому +1

    That’s heck of a story

  • @terrier_productions
    @terrier_productions 11 місяців тому +2

    Going back to the two new P2s, I believe that progress is going very slow on the 2001 replica because everyone is looking forward to 2007 “Prince of Wales”.
    I won’t be surprised when / if they announce they are cancelling the project. They could be waiting until 2007 is complete in 2025 before they restart the progress on 2001

    • @OnlyTheRightTrack
      @OnlyTheRightTrack  11 місяців тому +2

      Valid points, hadn't thought of that!

    • @mikesanders5433
      @mikesanders5433 11 місяців тому +1

      The A1 Trust and Doncaster group are two separate entities with no ties (but a lot of negative attitude from one towards the other)
      You’ll see the A1 Trust complete 2007 and 3403 Highlander and probably have overhauled Tornado again before there’s any significant progress with the 2001 replica in Doncaster 😂

    • @terrier_productions
      @terrier_productions 11 місяців тому

      ⁠​⁠@@mikesanders5433yes, I know. TBH I don’t see the point to have 2 P2s. It would be nice to have a replica of a sole surviving class like the Gresley A1/A3.

    • @joshuaW5621
      @joshuaW5621 11 місяців тому

      To be fair I don’t know if we really need a second new P2. Prince of Wales is going to rectify the faults the originals had and is going to be popular enough.

  • @historyotaku
    @historyotaku 11 місяців тому +3

    2:33 This is a common misconception about the A2/2s and it's blatantly false. Thane of Fife was the first of the class to be rebuilt and after a year or so in service it was authorized that the 5 remaining P2s were to be rebuilt to the same design as to quote the LNER Board meeting notes "The converted engine[Thane of Fife] has now been in service for some time, and has proven entirely satisfactory in that it has not only been able to handle loads at least equal to the stipulated maxinum load of the P2 class, on the Edinburgh and Aberdeen section but it has also been remarkable free from mechanical trouble". The A2/2s were not perfect machines but they were still good capable engines and did good work until they were witthdrawn.
    Taken from Epsiode 5 of the Railway Mania Podcast. 29:47
    ua-cam.com/video/AsY6AW5Ts08/v-deo.html

  • @matthewpastrikos7383
    @matthewpastrikos7383 11 місяців тому +2

    It's nice to hear that the LNER P2 is being brought back from extinction with the class's newest installment Prince of Wales #2007, hopefully Prince of Wales will have some improvements to fix the flaws that the first six had especially with their leading pony truck. As for the Cock o' The North replica well you did say they have been while for a couple of years now so i do believe Prince of Wales will be ready for operation before the Cock o' The North replica ever gets finished which excites me even more.
    Fun Fact: There was actually going to be a new LNER I1 4-8-2 mountain type, it may even solve the flaws on the leading pony truck that the P2s had. Unfortunately due to WW2, it never became a reality. I bet if Prince of Wales goes smoothly once it's fully build and operational, then there's a slight chance we might get a LNER I1 in the future. Then eventually, there will even be a LNER streamlined 4-8-4 northern which is what Burt Spencer drew up.

    • @mikesanders5433
      @mikesanders5433 11 місяців тому +2

      Don’t worry the trust is very much redesigning parts of 2007 to iron out initial design flaws (Front pony truck, crank axle, slimmer cylinder block and adjustments for the 118 diagram boiler, using a modified version of the Franklin Lens type B valve gear etc etc. 🙂
      Their website has detailed sections of all the changes to create the next in class.

    • @matthewpastrikos7383
      @matthewpastrikos7383 11 місяців тому

      @@mikesanders5433 Well in that case, i can't wait to see how Prince of Wales will compete against the diesels let alone outperform them. Maybe even give Flying Scotsman, LNER A4s, Br standard class 9Fs, LMS Black Fives, and Duke of Gloucester a run for their money.

    • @EllieMaes-Grandad
      @EllieMaes-Grandad 11 місяців тому +1

      Cock o' The North replica? No chance . . .

    • @matthewpastrikos7383
      @matthewpastrikos7383 11 місяців тому +1

      @@EllieMaes-Grandad As i said before, they have been quiet (even if it says while) for a couple of years now and i did say that Prince of Wales will definitely be fully build and operational before the Cock o' The North replica would ever be. and while Prince of Wales will basically be the most modern steam locomotive currently with all the advanced technologies and improvements that the original six could've got (but was sadly scrapped), The Cock o' The North replica will just be the exact version of what Cock o' The North is and what was before improvements came to be.

    • @EllieMaes-Grandad
      @EllieMaes-Grandad 11 місяців тому

      You're talking aspirations . . . . I talk finance. @@matthewpastrikos7383

  • @SouRwy4501Productions
    @SouRwy4501Productions 11 місяців тому

    I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. It needed a worthington SA feedwater heater and an American style mechanical stoker.

  • @PCMan8922
    @PCMan8922 11 місяців тому +1

    The P2 Class Dilemma May Finally End. (Cock O The North. I Can't.)

  • @Northerner_Transport_Hub
    @Northerner_Transport_Hub 11 місяців тому +2

    Nice video but I feel that its a bit too fast paced, I lost track of what you were talking about and then when I picked it up again you were talking about design issues

  • @tripwire3992
    @tripwire3992 11 місяців тому

    About P2 prince of wales... hook that thing up to a dynamometer carriage when its restored and try to shatter mallard

    • @EllieMaes-Grandad
      @EllieMaes-Grandad 11 місяців тому

      It will have cost enough to build - no sense spending more just to repair it . . . . it's all about power, not speed.

  • @I_like_planesandtrains860
    @I_like_planesandtrains860 11 місяців тому +1

    They always come back

  • @DMIRyellowstoneFan
    @DMIRyellowstoneFan 9 місяців тому

    Indeed, the A4's look very "snazy" 😎

  • @lukegreen5341
    @lukegreen5341 11 місяців тому +1

    0:59 This Locomotive Cock O The North Is A Bit Like Flying Scotsman. Happy Christmas Mate. X

  • @Empireofignorance7817
    @Empireofignorance7817 11 місяців тому +2

    0:13 im sorry what!

  • @charlieboy418
    @charlieboy418 11 місяців тому +2

    Why is it in the titles to most of these locomotive videos the said locomotive is called a train, the train is what the locomotive pulls? I do however enjoy these videos.

    • @joshuaW5621
      @joshuaW5621 11 місяців тому

      Why does the Unlucky Tug sometimes call them trains?

  • @warmstrong5612
    @warmstrong5612 11 місяців тому +1

    Not sure why they didn't just make it a 4-8-2 during the rebuild instead of a 4-6-2. No sense having that much power on tap if you can't make full use of it.

    • @MercenaryPen
      @MercenaryPen 11 місяців тому

      may have been a matter of using existing boiler designs rather than having to design something bigger

  • @RailPreserver2K
    @RailPreserver2K 11 місяців тому

    Not going to lie if you do anything on American steam engines I hope you could do something with the articulated locomotives in this production style because I love it

    • @ughhly
      @ughhly 11 місяців тому +1

      Even better if you do something on the Garrett's exported from the UK.

  • @MateoLaLocomotoraYCorredor14
    @MateoLaLocomotoraYCorredor14 10 місяців тому

    Well, Gordon is a LNER A1 Pacific

  • @Steam98-shortz
    @Steam98-shortz 11 місяців тому

    Technically five as it had caprotti valve gear with water heater and a token exchange then it was rebuilt with walschaerts valve gear and had
    It’s heater and tokens remeoved

  • @loisthevelociraptor5401
    @loisthevelociraptor5401 11 місяців тому

    Tons of Trackmasters? Is that you?

  • @steamoddity110
    @steamoddity110 11 місяців тому +1

    I have a question. I like Thomas and all, but I’d like to get into real trains… how would i gather all this knowledge and stuff?

    • @OnlyTheRightTrack
      @OnlyTheRightTrack  11 місяців тому +1

      Just read about it I guess lol or watch documentaries abt them

  • @davidmalchaski9383
    @davidmalchaski9383 11 місяців тому +1

    Uhh i think that p2 is a A2

  • @shinythomas8856
    @shinythomas8856 3 місяці тому

    Hello Tons of Trackmaster

  • @LeoWasTaken.
    @LeoWasTaken. 11 місяців тому

    Please make more videos like this ❤❤

  • @thomasm1964
    @thomasm1964 11 місяців тому +1

    Has it ever occurred to you that viewers might actually want a moment to absorb your fast-changing imagery?
    If you have a story to tell, sloe down!

  • @KapilKaushik-cl3ep
    @KapilKaushik-cl3ep 6 місяців тому

    my favourite P2 is Prince of Wales

  • @harrisonallen651
    @harrisonallen651 11 місяців тому

    Streamlining was the ultimate solution

  • @MichaelCampin
    @MichaelCampin 11 місяців тому +1

    Why show Tornado when you are talking about a P2

    • @OnlyTheRightTrack
      @OnlyTheRightTrack  11 місяців тому +1

      There's so insanely little footage of the p2's and absolutely none of any wheelslip, so I just used footage of tornado for that but to emphasize my point haha

  • @jacoblyman9441
    @jacoblyman9441 11 місяців тому +1

    "Most Powerful Steam Locomotive in the World"? Well I guess if the whole world is just the British Isles then... sure? 🤣
    The P2 is an impressive design for getting all that power out of the constraints of the tight loading gauge along with its rapid experimental history, but there are plenty of locomotives on the US, Soviet Union and even continental European lines which could have yanked the buffer beam right off a P2 if we're comparing tractive effort and horsepower. Even ignoring multiple engine articulated and turbines, we have fixed single engine designs such as the UP 9000 class (which admittedly has a touch of Gresley influence, using a licensed version of his triple cylinder valve gear system) that could put down 96,646 lbf of tractive effort.

  • @simongleaden2864
    @simongleaden2864 11 місяців тому

    Rebuilt 3 times, or built, then rebuilt twice?

  • @Sudriantank743
    @Sudriantank743 11 місяців тому +1

    No.2001 had the most embarrassing name, did it.

  • @wildwind413
    @wildwind413 11 місяців тому

    Anyone else hope the Cock of the North rebuild is named Cock of the South?

    • @aldo5428
      @aldo5428 11 місяців тому

      @wildwind4137 No, just you…

  • @TobyOliverHenryFan
    @TobyOliverHenryFan 11 місяців тому +2

    Holly! You Sound Older!

  • @Steam98-shortz
    @Steam98-shortz 11 місяців тому

    Technically 4 as it had caprotti valve gear with water cheater and a token exchange then it was rebuilt with walschaerts valve gear and had
    It’s heater and tokens removed

    • @OnlyTheRightTrack
      @OnlyTheRightTrack  11 місяців тому

      Should've mentioned it in the vid! Shame I missed it but thanks for the info haha. Also I wouldn't count that as a full rebuild so as to speak, as much as some minor adjustments

    • @lorenzosdeadchannel
      @lorenzosdeadchannel 11 місяців тому

      ​@@OnlyTheRightTrackmmmh yes, replacing the entirety of the valvegear definitely counts as a "minor adjustment"! 🙃

    • @OnlyTheRightTrack
      @OnlyTheRightTrack  11 місяців тому

      @@lorenzosdeadchannel still not a full 'cosmetic' rebuild I think

  • @AW.Dry_and_Co.
    @AW.Dry_and_Co. 11 місяців тому

    Could you do a video on the W1?

  • @MatNichols-iz9dy
    @MatNichols-iz9dy 11 місяців тому

    I'm going to be honest, although were very strong, I doubt that one of those could out pull a big boy. So no, it is not the strongest locomotive in the world.

  • @boblovell5789
    @boblovell5789 11 місяців тому

    LOCOMOTIVE

  • @lias8846
    @lias8846 11 місяців тому

    Hmmm is it just me or does he sound like Tons Of Trackmaster?

  • @Poopytrainm
    @Poopytrainm 11 місяців тому

    Is it just me or does he sound older 👀

  • @RaggyAl1971
    @RaggyAl1971 11 місяців тому

    You can't even get the video title right!!!!!

    • @OnlyTheRightTrack
      @OnlyTheRightTrack  11 місяців тому

      As I've said before, my vids aren't inherently made for train fans, also the general public, so I just simplified the wording in the title for that purpose

  • @zulu1697
    @zulu1697 11 місяців тому

    the p2 was never the strongest locomotive in the world, its a weakling compared to most heavy duty stuff out of britain, heck a K-37 almost has the same amount of tractive effort and thats a narrow gauge engine

  • @Takt4
    @Takt4 11 місяців тому

    Mmmm delicious 😋

  • @azul_q0001
    @azul_q0001 11 місяців тому +2

    first to like it

    • @Gaminggunzeller
      @Gaminggunzeller 11 місяців тому +1

      No you weren't. Someone else was before you.