After buying, the way Fabfilter Pro R 2 interpretates the IR's is just insane. After blind testing, I ALWAYS end up preferring the Pro R2 over the ‘raw’ impulse responses playing through a generic convolution reverb plugin.
@@jfilbert the basic convolution formula is the same from an acoustic/mathematic perspective. So most convolution plugins all do the same thing. With Pro R, you’re converting the IR so that instead of a ‘sample based’ reverb that is a convolution, you’re allowing the plugin to generate all delay taps from scratch. This has its perks mostly with repeated note hits. Generally algorithmic reverbs are more customisable and usually a lot nicer and higher quality sounding if the algorithms are programmed right. Pro R 2 for me kind of allows you to use IRs or a convolution approach to generating reverb but in an algorithmic way that is super accurate (of course not 100% - but even then the results from R2 often sound nicer!)
@@weschilton It's easier and quicker if you don't have to though, and the functionality is already built into the verb or delay plug. It also helps keep the project channel count from getting bigger and having to manage a ton of extra side chains. People used to lug huge bags of vinyl around 35 years ago, but thanks to modern tech evolving, improving and streamlining, DJs aren't known for having bad backs anymore as all they have to do is pull a USB stick out their pocket.
The term AI is generally a marketing gimmick anyway. I'm glad FF didn't put the term in a plugin they expect people to use for 5-10 years, and I trust they're utilizing whatever tech and algorithms are available to make their stuff great. All of FF plugins do and I'm sure will continue to do very intelligent things, if they never call it AI it will actually make me trust them more.
Yeah 100% agree. The use of the term AI has far outgrown it's actual meaning but in backwards fashion. Things we used to just call algorithms are being described as AI, just because they automatically do something, doesn't make it AI.
I'll also add, what a lot of these companies that say AI actually mean is that the algorythem they use was AI generated. This is essentually meaningless, as we've all seen AI generate 3 legged people with 6 fingers and a dinner plate for a face lol. It certainly doesn't guaentee the algorithm works well, because that depends on how well the AI was trained to begin with, which is at the hands of humans.
12:28 Uh Wytse, you are aware that Pro Q3 does support Atmos (up to 7.1.2). The freeze button did not exist in the first Pro-R which is a nice extra feature. What you didn't show was that bands in post-eq can now be split to L/R or M/S which is a neat feature imo. :) I'm a bit sad though they didn't keep Pro Q3's handy "split" function here.
The IR implementation here is actually really cool. Kinda reminds me of what Synplant 2 does with its attempt to replicant a sound within its own engine. I love this shit.
The SoundToys Super Plate has a better solution for ducking, it reduces the decay instead of the reverb gain, and it helps not to lose the reverb feel when ducking, pretty cool feature.
Bro does Superplate do this? Or do you mean Lustrous Plates? I know for the latter they include an actual ducker as part of the GUI. Cool if superplate has similar under the hood. All this matters when I’m picking a reverb 😂
@@Reggi_SampleSuperplate does exactly as he mentioned. It reduces the decay,and a slider around the decay knob shows how much decay reduction is happening
I have both and I can say I prefer pro R2 to super plate but saying that it really depends what kind of reverb your looking for and what your using it on, I have used both in a track as I do like super plate on certain snares , i don’t use super plate much on vocals or instruments like leads, so nether is better then the other.
@@DannyGouchiI have both as well. They are different, so you can't objectively day one is better than the other. They both have features the other doesn't have, that would sway a user one way or the other. I'd lean more towards sueperlate for its different flavors of plate, and ProR2 for every other type of reverb.
The Thickness could be described as density as well... The ducking is something I do on every vocal and sometimes on lead vocals but the icing on the cake is the IR loader... I may have fallen in love with it.
@@mmx2323 Yep. Not as rich - has it's own character which is of limited use. Which begs the question - is Crystalline still better at what it does. IOW does ProR2 offer as much in terms of gating. Crystalline, from memory, has the ability to delay the start of the reverb by beat instead of by ducker, and also control the length of delay by beat. Or did I imagine it?
So glad I'm not buying into the whole AI/Atmos thing. It's an expensive stressful bandwagon I really don't need. Choose the right tool, trust your talent and individuality and don't get sidetracked and bankrupted by the latest media hype. Write and produce a great song instead, the world will thank you for it. 😎
It does not have to be AI, you could do something like this pretty easily by using the dsp behind transient detection (two parallel envelope followers with different atk/rel)
I wouldn't be surprised if the algorithms they use are created by AI but don't use it as a marketing line. Most 'AI' is just that algorithm based but the algorithm is (partially) build by feeding data to a self learning piece of software. The plugin we get doesn't have any intelligence it's just 'trained'very well.
@@nathanlewis9516 no you look at the differences between the two, but you could add many more things to enhance it. You could for example add hold, minimum or maximum envelope values
Cleanest reverb I've tried. It keeps every bit of my guitar tone, can still hear when i dig into strings.. its just clear enough, but still soothing. I trialed the "top 10" and couldnt come close to having that same feeling. Its just simply great
It seems like settings like character, thickness, distance and brightness would be used more in post-production work in video and film, simulating rooms and natural settings. Fabfilter is definitely targeting it's programs to a very broad customer spectrum, which is smart. Great video!
@@ryandodsonmusic you def do. i think the poster is just making an observation. Everyone is at a different level of understanding and I think he's just realizing all these plugins can be used in other audio work.
Yeah, when I saw their video teaser I expected a traditional impulse response implementation, so when I didn't get that I felt a little mislead and therefore disappointed. But I've come to realize it's probably for the better, because it allows for so much more control, and it seems to get very close most of the time to the IR you are importing.
True. With V1 I literally just needed seconds to set it up, and I am not a pro. But I always ended up with a very pleasant result. I expect that from R2, too.
Everyone going on like ducking is a deal breaker. If your plugin doesn't have it, it's extremely easy to link your gain/wet dry/decay,/eq etc etc to a controller that ducks to whatever you want it to. Takes a few seconds to set up In any daw and you can do it to any parameters of any plugin you own.
I don't know what AI would bring to a reverb plugin than IR-based concepts don't already do. Maybe save a little CPU in the process, but modern systems ear FIR/IIR for breakfast so even that advantage is questionable. Saturation is a different beast, the nonlinearities there are still perfect for machine-learning applications. But IRs are linear, we already know what a perfect linear response to an IR is, we don't need a machine to estimate a fit to an answer we already know with certainty. And as far as letting the plugin give you an "opening bid" to work from, I mean, that's what presets are for.
Create IR of non-physical spaces and have adjustability rather than an IR taken in a moment of time. Add air density, wall absorption coefs etc maybe. Personally I think the future of Reverb is probably GPU-based and closer to what Vienna Symphonic are about to release. The GPU Audio power is insane, Literally several hundred convolutions can be run on your Nvidia with almost zero latency and uses as a plugin. I think we're not far off Realtime physical room modelling with GPU Audio too.
@@fcmas lol. I mostly use hardware reverbs - audioscape xl305r and Otto bam. But when I use a plug-in seventh heaven is the best sounding reverb itb. It takes no time, it has all the tried and true presets that just need a little tweaking to fit the song. Check it out if you haven’t yet.
@@pyratellamarecordingstudio1062I wouldn't be commenting an opinion on it if I wasn't familiar with it 😂..I work in film and tv, and we don't use much hardware verbs. Exponential Audio (and Altiverb) is the staple in my realm..you would love Stratus's 1,700 presets..check them out 😂
Your deep dive reviews are awesome - keep them coming! Surprise to hear you are using Fabfilter plugs less?? They're in every mix for me - what are you replacing them with?
you do control it the way you want if you use it right.. like sonible just skips steps for you that you would have done..so you can get to it quicker... id also guarentee his mixes if he did it with zero assistance it would sound better than yours...so the fact he knows what hes doing and just uses it to speed up the process isnt at all a lack of control thing.
I think the reason I like fabfilter, is just the amount of creative control the user gets to set. I can sit and mess around with settings for 20 minutes and *still* not be able to chose between 3 modes I love
In my opinion, the new version of the reverb turned out to be successful. The same cannot be said about their synthesizer, the Twin 3😂 In fact, the synthesizer is the only thing that disappoints me about Fabfilter's products. Everything else is on the crest of a wave of sound processing technology. For example, the Pro-Q equalizer basically orchestrates the entire industry. I like Fabfilter’s approach to creating plugins - they don’t try to reincarnate old analog and digital hardware devices into computer plugins - they create software for almost all occasions, and with the most convenient and beautiful modern digital interface.
@@Ksjskalkwvshwjwvqnam Twin 3 has polyphonic oscillators, they're just not engaged by default. If you want big sounds, increase Unison. Voices = maximum polyphony, Unison = amount of voices used per single note. If you set both to 64, a single note will sound HUGE. However, as soon as you play more than one note, you might run out of voices if the Unison setting is too high. For example, if you set Voices and Unison to 16 and you play two notes simultaneously, it will actually play 8 voices per note. This changes the tonal character of the synth quite drastically. It can sound really cool, but if you don't want this, just max out Voices and increase Unison depending on how many you need + the amount of polyphony in your playing. Unison Spread adds the width that you're used to from other synths. Default value is very low (7% or 10%, I think), but increasing it will help a lot. I hope this will help you get more out of Twin 3.
Twin 3 is the most amazing and musical sounding subtractive soft synth i have ever heard. It’s so modern sounding and capable of so much. Hands down the best soft synth i have ever used. I prefer it immensely over even modern wavetable synths.
The IR thing seems really cool and the auto gate feature seems like it could save some time. Anyone out there using these features regularly? I'd love to know how its working out for y'all.
Can you test TB ProAudio DSEQ vs Soothe 2?? I'm trying to see if it's as good at ducking frequencies as Soothe 2 is ... Instead of using a bell curve, you can use Soothe 2 to side chain the frequencies and duck the frequencies instead of using a bell curve like a lot of dynamic EQ plugins. I'll even join again for a while if you do this :P (Edited for spelling)
Personally I'm glad it's not with added AI. I've not had much time to test it out but as I'm a student for £25 it was worth upgrading imo edit: I am SO GLAD there is a freeze button, it's so helpful for making ambiances and other fun sounds, I just got raum (free in the komplete start bundle) and I was like dang this might be my new go to because I love having the freeze button, although sound wise I like superplate more the other reverb modes and atuoducking is a nice touch, definitely going to save me some time
I like the fabfiter pro r... Work flow!👍 I will upgrade the new pro R of r2 Or my favorit reverb is vss4 from TC electronic is the best sounding reverb ever!😱👌
The only Fabfilter plugin I use on a regular basis is the Pro-Q3. The limiter is WAY too involved & complicated. Same with Saturn. I don't really like too many controls to have to remember what to do, especially when mastering. Keep it simple, give me LUFS & all of that good stuff. The Pro-R is pretty good, but still too many controls. I DO love how you can EQ the reverb as if it's an EQ plugin. That's the coolest thing about the Pro-R. The Pro-R2 looks great as well. Still too many options. I'm now using the cheaper version of Seventh Heaven, and I'm not looking back. Seventh Heaven sounds absolutely AMAZING, and I can still roll off the low end to eliminate the mud, and the high end, so there's less sibilance. Just my preferred reverb plugin.
I see there is Dmax Audio Super Cube stands on top of the rack, the previous version, still with linear phase but with less low end. I wonder what's your opinion about them?
05:22 It may be just regular DSP. The user manual claims: "The auto gate triggers on the input signal of the plug-in and the intelligent algorithm has automatic threshold and attack/release settings, tuned to work perfectly when applied to separate drum sounds. " But intelligent doesnt mean IA.
I prefer using AI for composing in genres like pop, dance, and edm, as it efficiently manages complex effects such as eq in some cases, reverb, and compression, yielding incredible outcomes. When AI handles these technical elements, it frees up time to concentrate on composing the vibe, character, and musicality, which are essential for creating the right context.
I was psyched that it loads IR's until I saw it just converts the IR to "settings". I really wanted to use cab IR's with this type of setup, but I guess it's not made for that. : (
Is it ducking the tail or both early reflection and the tail. I usually just want it to duck the tail, or maybe even reduce the decay like some suckers do
I'm a complete beginner to this, but I really like this plugin's interface and I'm curious about something: are the songs that he's playing with provided by the plugin itself? I'm asking, because I could see myself loading one of the songs and playing with the settings until I find something that I like the sound of.
Plugins are simply sound effects, they don't come with the recordings. You can download free sample libraries to play around with sounds if you don't have any.
I fell like only 3 reverb types is disappointing. I get more reverb types than that from free plugins. Id take the free cymatics reverb plug in over this if I had to pick one
This reverb is so good though. I tested R2 first then Valhalla vintage a few minutes later, and Valhalla actually aggravated me hearing it. It just junks a really nice guitar tone even at a low mix the string sound gets coated..same for free plugins.. also on a piano its so natural, just great. idk listen with really nice monitors or high end open backs?
Ducking function has been available on the 7th heaven Pro from Liquid Sonics, and Baby Audio’s Crystalline for some time now. I don’t know. I get the feeling R2 is not really worth buying an entire new plugin. Even if it’s made by the amazing guys at Fabfilter.. Would have been great as an upgrade IMHO.
I find myself always underwhelmed with their compressor. That's the only one. I reach for the Tokyo Dawn Labs comp for clean or the classics for colour. Every other plugin is a no brainer workhorse.
For example, I am disappointed by their synthesizer - Fabfilter Twin. This year the third version was released, but the problems there are still the same - it is impossible to create fat, rich sounds. Accordingly, there is practically no use for convenient, intuitive controls if the capabilities of sound synthesis are severely limited.
Their synth Twin is really sub-par (and that’s being kind - especially given the availability of excellent free synths now like Vital and Surge). Not a hater btw. LOVE FF’s core offerings. Just saying…✌🏼
Wytse. I know you have a million plugins on your list....but....in terms of AI, the new free Ultimate Vocal Remover (UVR5) has, in my view blown the competition, and my mind to smithereens. It is astonishing good.
I wish you would take a look at the Fuser from Mastering The Mix! This is a plugin for producing, not for mastering. Of course I realize that you are not a producer, but you have the wisdom to evaluate things objectively.
Good lord, Wyste! Someone should have exposed you to the world of Liquid Sonics/Reverb Foundry if all this (besides the IR learning) is blowing your mind. In-plugin ducking and Atmos/surround support have been a staple in these for a long time. Was not a big fan of the sound itself with Pro R 1, but this new version seems promising.
Adaptivity != AI or ML ("!=" is a programming symbol for "not equal to"). I'm not saying one is worse or better than the other in general; you can do either of them well or poorly. There have been adaptive signal processing algorithms for decades before AI/ML became feasible for audio processing. Unless they say auto gate was built using AI, there's no justification for calling it AI. All that said, I enjoyed the review. The IR matching capability is cool, and the reverb sounds as good as could be expected in a YT video. -Tom
AI doesn't always makes sense. I mean if you want AI based presets that basically get you 2% more into the ballpark of what you are trying to achieve then ... maybe not aim for AI then. AI's brilliance comes from making a bedroom producer doing better decisions more often and based on genre specific averages. AI can do the heavy lifting for you, but it will never be able to make chaotic / random design decisions a human would make just for the sake of it. Or the unique sound and character of it. EDIT: * so before complaining about AI: try to describe what an AI should automate and then train her to do so :) *
Good luck with distinguishing e. g. a Valhalla Vintage Verb plugin from this (much more expensive) one in a complete mix. 😉 (not to speak of the sonible smart:reverb which is also a bit cheaper than fabfilter)
I don’t have time to create reverbs. In fact this is way too fiddly for me. But hey what works for you and doesn’t work for me is great. The IR thing is really cool. Hard pass for me though, but I appreciate their dedication to making good and useful plugins.
Wondering when the dials and screws come off all of these plugins and the UI goes to AI which does it all... for me it seems the tech is all moving towards that end... I can even see this go as far as to say "only AI is capable of creating music" or other things "intellectually made" that is not copyright infringeable in other words as humans everything we make is some form of parroting what we have already heard (or made before) and at some point is therefore automatically infringement ....
Just way too expensive for a reverb unless you are doing sound design, reverb is something you generally don’t really want to hear. Too many quality alternatives much cheaper. It’s great, but…..
let's make things clear about AI and machine learning, and why it's not that great idea to implement (yet): 1) locally on-device, it's heavy on resources (cpu, gpu..), very inefficient, and degrading performance for any other tasks, there is no widely-adopted hardware standard and implemented to use (Apple Silicon architecture has some dedicated parts of the chip to do so, but Intel announced it for 15th gen next year...) 2) remote, online-based AI processing, introduces too much latency and is a burden in audio workflows, also internet connection and speeds are not quite there yet even for some professional studios
AI processing could be handled by the GPU, though. That's how GPU Audio make their plugins. I don't know if they support AMD GPUs yet, but if you have an Nvidia card, you can use the Tensore Cores on there to run these plugins.
@@creativeheadroom gpu still need hundreds of watts, while dedicated chips in phones can do same (voice processing, camera processing etc..) for less than a watt
@@TazzSmk GPU power consumption varies drastically depending on which parts of it are under load. Also, the processing power of a dedicated high end GPU smokes any of the Apple Silicon chips out there, let alone a phone. Processing audio with a GPU hardly puts it under load. After all most of the GPU is not doing anything at all. You're just offloading work to a component that's currently running idle in the system. Keep in mind it would also free up RAM and CPU time. Also, the voice processing on a phone isn't exactly meant for studio grade audio processing.
the "Ducking" feature ... was already in the KSHMR reverb plugin ... Ctrl-c | Ctrl-v ... and 5x less expensive .. it's like they say, if a dutch guy didn't have fooled you, he probably forgot ... :D
@@GunterDS_SteReo_Gyou sound silly. There's no such thing as a hardset "way to go." Notice I didn't even say that about ProR2. Feel free to like what you like, bit the Pro R2 has more control and featues than Blackhole as well..keep to objective facts, and not fanboy conjecture
Kshmr verb has cool features but the algorithms sound like trash. I’m a novice at dsp and was able to make a similar sounding reverb in about an hour…I have a video on my channel showing this
After buying, the way Fabfilter Pro R 2 interpretates the IR's is just insane. After blind testing, I ALWAYS end up preferring the Pro R2 over the ‘raw’ impulse responses playing through a generic convolution reverb plugin.
That's great to hear!
cool! testing soon
I haven't heard PR2 yet but it's true that all IR covoluters are not created equal, not by a long shot.
@@jfilbert the basic convolution formula is the same from an acoustic/mathematic perspective. So most convolution plugins all do the same thing.
With Pro R, you’re converting the IR so that instead of a ‘sample based’ reverb that is a convolution, you’re allowing the plugin to generate all delay taps from scratch. This has its perks mostly with repeated note hits.
Generally algorithmic reverbs are more customisable and usually a lot nicer and higher quality sounding if the algorithms are programmed right.
Pro R 2 for me kind of allows you to use IRs or a convolution approach to generating reverb but in an algorithmic way that is super accurate (of course not 100% - but even then the results from R2 often sound nicer!)
@@fabfilter❤
ducking is a god send in any kind of delay, verb, mod plugin. i appreciate it in and cheer for every plugin that comes with it.
Yes! Delay and reverb tails are the source of a lot of muddiness & it is the best way to clean that up. From the source!
@@everybodyhasoul5438also dont forget to side chain the reverb bus to snares ect, really cleans up the mix....
@@Adam-g-ukthat’s what ducking is
You know you can easily set this up with any reverb or delay in an Aux channel with a side-chain. Ive done this for over 35 years.
@@weschilton It's easier and quicker if you don't have to though, and the functionality is already built into the verb or delay plug. It also helps keep the project channel count from getting bigger and having to manage a ton of extra side chains. People used to lug huge bags of vinyl around 35 years ago, but thanks to modern tech evolving, improving and streamlining, DJs aren't known for having bad backs anymore as all they have to do is pull a USB stick out their pocket.
The term AI is generally a marketing gimmick anyway. I'm glad FF didn't put the term in a plugin they expect people to use for 5-10 years, and I trust they're utilizing whatever tech and algorithms are available to make their stuff great. All of FF plugins do and I'm sure will continue to do very intelligent things, if they never call it AI it will actually make me trust them more.
Totally agree
Yeah 100% agree. The use of the term AI has far outgrown it's actual meaning but in backwards fashion. Things we used to just call algorithms are being described as AI, just because they automatically do something, doesn't make it AI.
I'll also add, what a lot of these companies that say AI actually mean is that the algorythem they use was AI generated. This is essentually meaningless, as we've all seen AI generate 3 legged people with 6 fingers and a dinner plate for a face lol. It certainly doesn't guaentee the algorithm works well, because that depends on how well the AI was trained to begin with, which is at the hands of humans.
12:28 Uh Wytse, you are aware that Pro Q3 does support Atmos (up to 7.1.2).
The freeze button did not exist in the first Pro-R which is a nice extra feature. What you didn't show was that bands in post-eq can now be split to L/R or M/S which is a neat feature imo. :) I'm a bit sad though they didn't keep Pro Q3's handy "split" function here.
The IR implementation here is actually really cool. Kinda reminds me of what Synplant 2 does with its attempt to replicant a sound within its own engine. I love this shit.
The SoundToys Super Plate has a better solution for ducking, it reduces the decay instead of the reverb gain, and it helps not to lose the reverb feel when ducking, pretty cool feature.
Bro does Superplate do this? Or do you mean Lustrous Plates? I know for the latter they include an actual ducker as part of the GUI. Cool if superplate has similar under the hood. All this matters when I’m picking a reverb 😂
@@Reggi_Sample I mean Soundtoys Superplate
@@Reggi_SampleSuperplate does exactly as he mentioned. It reduces the decay,and a slider around the decay knob shows how much decay reduction is happening
I have both and I can say I prefer pro R2 to super plate but saying that it really depends what kind of reverb your looking for and what your using it on, I have used both in a track as I do like super plate on certain snares , i don’t use super plate much on vocals or instruments like leads, so nether is better then the other.
@@DannyGouchiI have both as well. They are different, so you can't objectively day one is better than the other. They both have features the other doesn't have, that would sway a user one way or the other. I'd lean more towards sueperlate for its different flavors of plate, and ProR2 for every other type of reverb.
The Thickness could be described as density as well... The ducking is something I do on every vocal and sometimes on lead vocals but the icing on the cake is the IR loader... I may have fallen in love with it.
The distance knob is very good. You can push back stuff without making it overly "reverby".
I always preferred Crystalline due to the ducking function. glad to see pro-R has implemented it in 2023!
I stick to raum most of the time. Its also very versatile. Great for most things.
@@DJayFreeDooRaum is totally underrated. I still use it!
Struggle to catch the vibe with cristalline, it doesn't feel big & rich enough, even tho ducking is pleasant
@@mmx2323 Yep. Not as rich - has it's own character which is of limited use. Which begs the question - is Crystalline still better at what it does. IOW does ProR2 offer as much in terms of gating. Crystalline, from memory, has the ability to delay the start of the reverb by beat instead of by ducker, and also control the length of delay by beat. Or did I imagine it?
@@mmx2323 I do not like Crystalline. Have you tried Raum? That's a real lush sounding reverb.
So glad I'm not buying into the whole AI/Atmos thing. It's an expensive stressful bandwagon I really don't need. Choose the right tool, trust your talent and individuality and don't get sidetracked and bankrupted by the latest media hype. Write and produce a great song instead, the world will thank you for it. 😎
Agreed. AI is not that great and purely used for commercial unesesary stuff
after watch the fabfilter video.. i am nothing short of impressed with this plugin!
its next on my list thats for sure!
It does not have to be AI, you could do something like this pretty easily by using the dsp behind transient detection (two parallel envelope followers with different atk/rel)
And then dividing one by the other?
I wouldn't be surprised if the algorithms they use are created by AI but don't use it as a marketing line. Most 'AI' is just that algorithm based but the algorithm is (partially) build by feeding data to a self learning piece of software. The plugin we get doesn't have any intelligence it's just 'trained'very well.
@@nathanlewis9516 no you look at the differences between the two, but you could add many more things to enhance it. You could for example add hold, minimum or maximum envelope values
whenever I want to test my subwoofers I just play this channels intro.
Cleanest reverb I've tried. It keeps every bit of my guitar tone, can still hear when i dig into strings.. its just clear enough, but still soothing. I trialed the "top 10" and couldnt come close to having that same feeling. Its just simply great
It seems like settings like character, thickness, distance and brightness would be used more in post-production work in video and film, simulating rooms and natural settings. Fabfilter is definitely targeting it's programs to a very broad customer spectrum, which is smart. Great video!
You don’t need distance and brightness control when your working with music? 🤔
@@ryandodsonmusic you def do. i think the poster is just making an observation. Everyone is at a different level of understanding and I think he's just realizing all these plugins can be used in other audio work.
Yeah, when I saw their video teaser I expected a traditional impulse response implementation, so when I didn't get that I felt a little mislead and therefore disappointed. But I've come to realize it's probably for the better, because it allows for so much more control, and it seems to get very close most of the time to the IR you are importing.
What you describe is why I like Pro R - with other reverbs I'm much more inclined to use presets, with Pro R I almost always build my own.
True. With V1 I literally just needed seconds to set it up, and I am not a pro. But I always ended up with a very pleasant result. I expect that from R2, too.
Everyone going on like ducking is a deal breaker. If your plugin doesn't have it, it's extremely easy to link your gain/wet dry/decay,/eq etc etc to a controller that ducks to whatever you want it to. Takes a few seconds to set up In any daw and you can do it to any parameters of any plugin you own.
I don't know what AI would bring to a reverb plugin than IR-based concepts don't already do. Maybe save a little CPU in the process, but modern systems ear FIR/IIR for breakfast so even that advantage is questionable. Saturation is a different beast, the nonlinearities there are still perfect for machine-learning applications. But IRs are linear, we already know what a perfect linear response to an IR is, we don't need a machine to estimate a fit to an answer we already know with certainty.
And as far as letting the plugin give you an "opening bid" to work from, I mean, that's what presets are for.
Create IR of non-physical spaces and have adjustability rather than an IR taken in a moment of time. Add air density, wall absorption coefs etc maybe. Personally I think the future of Reverb is probably GPU-based and closer to what Vienna Symphonic are about to release. The GPU Audio power is insane, Literally several hundred convolutions can be run on your Nvidia with almost zero latency and uses as a plugin. I think we're not far off Realtime physical room modelling with GPU Audio too.
Seventh Heaven is still my go to reverb, even years later as other reverbs have come out.
press F for iLok
Yup it’s still the king. And I love that it uses ilok.
@@pyratellamarecordingstudio1062....says the guy who just said he doesn't have time to "create reverbs." I'm sure you're a reverb aficionado
@@fcmas lol. I mostly use hardware reverbs - audioscape xl305r and Otto bam. But when I use a plug-in seventh heaven is the best sounding reverb itb. It takes no time, it has all the tried and true presets that just need a little tweaking to fit the song. Check it out if you haven’t yet.
@@pyratellamarecordingstudio1062I wouldn't be commenting an opinion on it if I wasn't familiar with it 😂..I work in film and tv, and we don't use much hardware verbs. Exponential Audio (and Altiverb) is the staple in my realm..you would love Stratus's 1,700 presets..check them out 😂
Your deep dive reviews are awesome - keep them coming! Surprise to hear you are using Fabfilter plugs less?? They're in every mix for me - what are you replacing them with?
Sonible and iZotope for me
I was kinda hoping for some shimmer functionality, but I suppose not.
I couldn’t be any further from your need to have AI for everything. I prefer to control my stuff the way I want. It keeps me awake 😂
you do control it the way you want if you use it right.. like sonible just skips steps for you that you would have done..so you can get to it quicker... id also guarentee his mixes if he did it with zero assistance it would sound better than yours...so the fact he knows what hes doing and just uses it to speed up the process isnt at all a lack of control thing.
I think the reason I like fabfilter, is just the amount of creative control the user gets to set. I can sit and mess around with settings for 20 minutes and *still* not be able to chose between 3 modes I love
In my opinion, the new version of the reverb turned out to be successful. The same cannot be said about their synthesizer, the Twin 3😂 In fact, the synthesizer is the only thing that disappoints me about Fabfilter's products. Everything else is on the crest of a wave of sound processing technology. For example, the Pro-Q equalizer basically orchestrates the entire industry. I like Fabfilter’s approach to creating plugins - they don’t try to reincarnate old analog and digital hardware devices into computer plugins - they create software for almost all occasions, and with the most convenient and beautiful modern digital interface.
What do you not like about Twin 3? I actually like it a lot.
@@creativeheadroom This synthesizer has monophonic oscillators, essentially. It's impossible to create fat, rich sounds.
@@Ksjskalkwvshwjwvqnam Twin 3 has polyphonic oscillators, they're just not engaged by default. If you want big sounds, increase Unison. Voices = maximum polyphony, Unison = amount of voices used per single note. If you set both to 64, a single note will sound HUGE. However, as soon as you play more than one note, you might run out of voices if the Unison setting is too high. For example, if you set Voices and Unison to 16 and you play two notes simultaneously, it will actually play 8 voices per note. This changes the tonal character of the synth quite drastically. It can sound really cool, but if you don't want this, just max out Voices and increase Unison depending on how many you need + the amount of polyphony in your playing. Unison Spread adds the width that you're used to from other synths. Default value is very low (7% or 10%, I think), but increasing it will help a lot. I hope this will help you get more out of Twin 3.
@@creativeheadroom Thank you, I really learned a lot of new things now. I need to try it in practice.
Twin 3 is the most amazing and musical sounding subtractive soft synth i have ever heard. It’s so modern sounding and capable of so much. Hands down the best soft synth i have ever used. I prefer it immensely over even modern wavetable synths.
The IR thing seems really cool and the auto gate feature seems like it could save some time. Anyone out there using these features regularly? I'd love to know how its working out for y'all.
Can you test TB ProAudio DSEQ vs Soothe 2?? I'm trying to see if it's as good at ducking frequencies as Soothe 2 is ... Instead of using a bell curve, you can use Soothe 2 to side chain the frequencies and duck the frequencies instead of using a bell curve like a lot of dynamic EQ plugins.
I'll even join again for a while if you do this :P
(Edited for spelling)
FF is the best, hands down
Personally I'm glad it's not with added AI. I've not had much time to test it out but as I'm a student for £25 it was worth upgrading imo
edit: I am SO GLAD there is a freeze button, it's so helpful for making ambiances and other fun sounds, I just got raum (free in the komplete start bundle) and I was like dang this might be my new go to because I love having the freeze button, although sound wise I like superplate more
the other reverb modes and atuoducking is a nice touch, definitely going to save me some time
I like the fabfiter pro r... Work flow!👍 I will upgrade the new pro R of r2
Or my favorit reverb is vss4 from TC electronic is the best sounding reverb ever!😱👌
The only Fabfilter plugin I use on a regular basis is the Pro-Q3. The limiter is WAY too involved & complicated. Same with Saturn. I don't really like too many controls to have to remember what to do, especially when mastering. Keep it simple, give me LUFS & all of that good stuff. The Pro-R is pretty good, but still too many controls. I DO love how you can EQ the reverb as if it's an EQ plugin. That's the coolest thing about the Pro-R. The Pro-R2 looks great as well. Still too many options. I'm now using the cheaper version of Seventh Heaven, and I'm not looking back. Seventh Heaven sounds absolutely AMAZING, and I can still roll off the low end to eliminate the mud, and the high end, so there's less sibilance. Just my preferred reverb plugin.
I love this f*cking verb.
Amazing update ❤
this is actually very interesting IMO. I do a lot in 5.1 recently and that surround toolkit looks like it actually makes senses
What you called room size (distance knob) it is early late reflection "amount".
Hey! You mentioned in the video not using FF plugins as much these days. What list of plugins are you using in their place now?
I see there is Dmax Audio Super Cube stands on top of the rack, the previous version, still with linear phase but with less low end. I wonder what's your opinion about them?
05:22 It may be just regular DSP.
The user manual claims: "The auto gate triggers on the input signal of the plug-in and the intelligent algorithm has automatic threshold and attack/release settings, tuned to work perfectly when applied to separate drum sounds. "
But intelligent doesnt mean IA.
I agree, similar to auto release of a compressor.
Not everything "intelligent" needs to be AI.
Anyways it's cool!
I prefer using AI for composing in genres like pop, dance, and edm, as it efficiently manages complex effects such as eq in some cases, reverb, and compression, yielding incredible outcomes. When AI handles these technical elements, it frees up time to concentrate on composing the vibe, character, and musicality, which are essential for creating the right context.
What AI products are you using that do this?
Did chat gpt write that as well? 😂
Maybe the IR analyzation is AI driven. Have you thought about that? I mean, I don't know but it might be possible.
it seems like the distance control is basically a ratio between early reflections and late reflections
So enjoy your channel, keep up the good!!
I was psyched that it loads IR's until I saw it just converts the IR to "settings". I really wanted to use cab IR's with this type of setup, but I guess it's not made for that. : (
You said you don’t use pro-q as much. What’s replaced it for you? I know you don’t like Acustica, but have you tried Salt?
Heerlijk weer! geweldig hoe je dingen op video zet!
you can click on the auto gate and drag to change the time.. so not quite as useless as you first thought :)
Is it ducking the tail or both early reflection and the tail. I usually just want it to duck the tail, or maybe even reduce the decay like some suckers do
Little did he know Rev INTENSITY has the ducking feature for almost 4 years. Maybe do a review about all of the FX4 collection. It's really worth it.
I'm a complete beginner to this, but I really like this plugin's interface and I'm curious about something:
are the songs that he's playing with provided by the plugin itself?
I'm asking, because I could see myself loading one of the songs and playing with the settings until
I find something that I like the sound of.
Plugins are simply sound effects, they don't come with the recordings. You can download free sample libraries to play around with sounds if you don't have any.
I fell like only 3 reverb types is disappointing. I get more reverb types than that from free plugins. Id take the free cymatics reverb plug in over this if I had to pick one
It is better to have a few types of reverb that sound good and not so many that you cannot use any of them because they sound bad.
This reverb is so good though. I tested R2 first then Valhalla vintage a few minutes later, and Valhalla actually aggravated me hearing it. It just junks a really nice guitar tone even at a low mix the string sound gets coated..same for free plugins.. also on a piano its so natural, just great. idk listen with really nice monitors or high end open backs?
Hi! What do you think of the Super Cubes Pro? Would you like to make a video review of it?
Ducking function has been available on the 7th heaven Pro from Liquid Sonics, and Baby Audio’s Crystalline for some time now.
I don’t know. I get the feeling R2 is not really worth buying an entire new plugin. Even if it’s made by the amazing guys at Fabfilter..
Would have been great as an upgrade IMHO.
Ducking is on a fair few reverbs and delays that I've heard. It's still a really useful feature though.
Liquidsonics is where my money at for reverbs, agree!
Do Fabfilter ever make a plug-in that disappoints? If so, I've never seen one!
I find myself always underwhelmed with their compressor. That's the only one. I reach for the Tokyo Dawn Labs comp for clean or the classics for colour. Every other plugin is a no brainer workhorse.
For example, I am disappointed by their synthesizer - Fabfilter Twin. This year the third version was released, but the problems there are still the same - it is impossible to create fat, rich sounds. Accordingly, there is practically no use for convenient, intuitive controls if the capabilities of sound synthesis are severely limited.
Their synth Twin is really sub-par (and that’s being kind - especially given the availability of excellent free synths now like Vital and Surge).
Not a hater btw. LOVE FF’s core offerings. Just saying…✌🏼
Why are you off fabfilter now? What plugin compressor/eq/limiter are you now on? Gone to stock plugins?
I know your thing about Darude-Sandstorm, but what piece is the Blues Piano part of? Unbelievable playing
Thanks for posting this, this and your channel are informative and helpful.
Wytse. I know you have a million plugins on your list....but....in terms of AI, the new free Ultimate Vocal Remover (UVR5) has, in my view blown the competition, and my mind to smithereens. It is astonishing good.
You can finally increase the length of an IR without stretching!!
Your channel intro has been fixed! yay!
Cool, they did it again
I wish you would take a look at the Fuser from Mastering The Mix! This is a plugin for producing, not for mastering. Of course I realize that you are not a producer, but you have the wisdom to evaluate things objectively.
tomorrow
Good lord, Wyste! Someone should have exposed you to the world of Liquid Sonics/Reverb Foundry if all this (besides the IR learning) is blowing your mind. In-plugin ducking and Atmos/surround support have been a staple in these for a long time. Was not a big fan of the sound itself with Pro R 1, but this new version seems promising.
Seconded! Liquidsonics is mindblowingly good in atmos.
i still think Crystalline is going to stay don't see me using this over it the IR is cool though
i guess the auto gate is just a transient detector + gate, not AI ?
Sounds like character is adding some chorus type vibe
So ducking is literally the reverb sidechain
In another video he said he uses Sonible stuff a lot. Well their smart reverb has the ducking feature
He even says it in this video.
@@Fastvoice yet he acts like he has never seen this feature done before
Great plugin!
Brilliant review! Shit nu heb ik het nodig - I think 'character' is kind of like 'diffusion' in other reverb plug-ins.
OMG you’re Painting your Nails now… I was Wondering what you get into on the Weekends.
tbh i rather have a tool that focuses on prestine quality, efficiency and great usability, than a AI-CPU killer that applies some settings for me
Baby audio did the gate and duck a while ago.
Adaptivity != AI or ML ("!=" is a programming symbol for "not equal to"). I'm not saying one is worse or better than the other in general; you can do either of them well or poorly. There have been adaptive signal processing algorithms for decades before AI/ML became feasible for audio processing. Unless they say auto gate was built using AI, there's no justification for calling it AI. All that said, I enjoyed the review. The IR matching capability is cool, and the reverb sounds as good as could be expected in a YT video. -Tom
Fabfilter vs liquidsonics ?! Anyone
Very fine piano playing..
auto gate looks cool.
Sidechaining the lead against your reverb is a mixing standard.
04:10 'De nieuwe auto gain.' Switching to Dutch now, Wytse?
AI doesn't always makes sense. I mean if you want AI based presets that basically get you 2% more into the ballpark of what you are trying to achieve then ... maybe not aim for AI then. AI's brilliance comes from making a bedroom producer doing better decisions more often and based on genre specific averages. AI can do the heavy lifting for you, but it will never be able to make chaotic / random design decisions a human would make just for the sake of it. Or the unique sound and character of it. EDIT: * so before complaining about AI: try to describe what an AI should automate and then train her to do so :) *
Plugin GOAT bundle = fabfilter
Plugin GOAT = PRO Q3
I like it.
Good luck with distinguishing e. g. a Valhalla Vintage Verb plugin from this (much more expensive) one in a complete mix. 😉
(not to speak of the sonible smart:reverb which is also a bit cheaper than fabfilter)
I don’t have time to create reverbs. In fact this is way too fiddly for me. But hey what works for you and doesn’t work for me is great. The IR thing is really cool. Hard pass for me though, but I appreciate their dedication to making good and useful plugins.
They have these things called presets as well 😂
Too many fiddly controls and parameters. The Ir thing is super cool though and kinda tempting, but I have no need or use for it.@@fcmas
Dude this looks sweet, who cares about the auto ai crap
did he just discover ducking like the humans discovered fire?
probably
Hoooookay, damn this looks cool
Thank you for this amazing and entertaining review! Its always nice to see that you've uploaded a new video
That impulse response is your AI feature lol
The reverb sound of this is kinda weird
its atmos plug in thats the big update
201x-2022 wytse: yeah but does it have auto gain?
2023-208x wytse: yeah but does it have AI?
Wondering when the dials and screws come off all of these plugins and the UI goes to AI which does it all... for me it seems the tech is all moving towards that end... I can even see this go as far as to say "only AI is capable of creating music" or other things "intellectually made" that is not copyright infringeable in other words as humans everything we make is some form of parroting what we have already heard (or made before) and at some point is therefore automatically infringement ....
Compare this to Sonible. Yes, I’m the try something other than FF guy 😅
I have to do it manually .. oh my?! He say that lol .. do i want a mix of his: No. Total Noobland.
You don’t have to 😜
Just way too expensive for a reverb unless you are doing sound design, reverb is something you generally don’t really want to hear. Too many quality alternatives much cheaper. It’s great, but…..
let's make things clear about AI and machine learning, and why it's not that great idea to implement (yet):
1) locally on-device, it's heavy on resources (cpu, gpu..), very inefficient, and degrading performance for any other tasks, there is no widely-adopted hardware standard and implemented to use (Apple Silicon architecture has some dedicated parts of the chip to do so, but Intel announced it for 15th gen next year...)
2) remote, online-based AI processing, introduces too much latency and is a burden in audio workflows, also internet connection and speeds are not quite there yet even for some professional studios
AI processing could be handled by the GPU, though. That's how GPU Audio make their plugins. I don't know if they support AMD GPUs yet, but if you have an Nvidia card, you can use the Tensore Cores on there to run these plugins.
@@creativeheadroom gpu still need hundreds of watts, while dedicated chips in phones can do same (voice processing, camera processing etc..) for less than a watt
@@TazzSmk everything else in the studio is already pulling hundreds of watts, and ai in my experience doesn’t push my gpu that hard.
@@TazzSmk GPU power consumption varies drastically depending on which parts of it are under load. Also, the processing power of a dedicated high end GPU smokes any of the Apple Silicon chips out there, let alone a phone. Processing audio with a GPU hardly puts it under load. After all most of the GPU is not doing anything at all. You're just offloading work to a component that's currently running idle in the system. Keep in mind it would also free up RAM and CPU time. Also, the voice processing on a phone isn't exactly meant for studio grade audio processing.
Comment for da algorithm
Streak count: 198
Almost there
stay cool
lekkere vent
the "Ducking" feature ... was already in the KSHMR reverb plugin ... Ctrl-c | Ctrl-v ... and 5x less expensive .. it's like they say, if a dutch guy didn't have fooled you, he probably forgot ... :D
Kshmr has 5x less controls as well...Fabfilter plugs are well-worth their price tag
@@fcmas if you say so… if your goal is to have a lot of control… i guess Eventide blackhole is the way to go…
@@GunterDS_SteReo_Gthe KSHMR reverb consistently crashes my sessions.
@@GunterDS_SteReo_Gyou sound silly. There's no such thing as a hardset "way to go." Notice I didn't even say that about ProR2. Feel free to like what you like, bit the Pro R2 has more control and featues than Blackhole as well..keep to objective facts, and not fanboy conjecture
Kshmr verb has cool features but the algorithms sound like trash. I’m a novice at dsp and was able to make a similar sounding reverb in about an hour…I have a video on my channel showing this
Lennart kan dat toch wel ff regelen voor je!!
Dat kan ie zeker!