Milling 13/16" Holes in Angle Iron for a Fast Turn-Around
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- The welding shop had a stack of 4x4x1/2 angle iron pieces cut 6" long that required some 13/16" holes machines in them and they needed them back right away. This was a great opportunity to use the @MilltronicsUSAInc TRM3016 cnc mill with my @TungaloyCorporation 1/2" Tung Force Rec end mill and use a helical interpolation tool path to mill the holes to size. This was a good technique to quickly get the holes machined in these parts and utilizing two work offsets as well. #cncmachining #milltronics #tungaloy
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Not sure what all the negativity is about adam is learning cnc and sharing his journey, some of the best cnc programmers out there are also manual Machinists. If your not interested in the cnc ones skip them and watch the ones your interested in no need to be butt hurt 😂
I try and make a habit of not listening to peoples advice if their goal is to stop me from learning and growing. Hope he keeps doing the things he enjoys, continues to learn new things, and share them with all of us.
@@johnnyrayh5858 I found it an enjoyable video, I'd like to see some of the complainers manually program a CNC, many would argue turning handles is easier.
Just people being armchair critics. It’s easier to criticize than to do.
@@weldchip But have we seen Adam manually program a CNC machine? I haven't seen him go into MDI mode and even write a simple program. Or go through line by line a program already created for him, explaining what it's doing. I guess that's pretty hard to do anyways, as @mechanicaladvantage has advised him not to bother learning how to write it ( or presumably understand it either). And Adam keeps on telling us he's off to write the program.....
@@stephenk79-rc1il I have seen him have a go at conventional programming. Also It was me that put him on to Kevin at mv. 🤣. Remember Adam is a humble guy he's not gonna come on here pretending he's a gcode wizard when he isn't, he's sharing his journey this is all new for him and he is being brave to share it. I wonder if some of the people on here being critical are the types that teach their kid to ride a bike and intentionally push them off as they start to get going 😦
If people dont enjoy watching Adam learn CNC, which i think is doing an excellent job, then go watch Titans of CNC. Adam is one of the most skilled machinists I've had the opportunity to watch on youtube. I've been a machinist for over 20 years, and I've learned quite a bit from him. At one point in time, all of us had to learn CNC. I struggled a bit at the beginning and made my fair share of mistakes, but it molded me into the programmer i am today. I think it's awesome him watching him learn and continue to improve upon his CNC abilities. Keep the videos coming, Adam ! Great job!
The variance between pieces for angle is why we were always quite liberal with our CNC code where I used to work, and we typically used spade drills for most bolt holes. This way we could get fairly uniform holes with only having a few tools, just needing to buy the spade inserts for what we used, and the ones we used also came in carbide, for heavy repeat work. I do like the helical milling for the holes that you did too though. Personally I'd probably only use that for more stable dimension materials, unless I put in the max variances in the code... but that would make it run a bit longer than necessary.... drill cycles also tend to be way faster than helical cycles... but practice is definitely practice.
Keep up the good work, and thanks for showing us these projects, simple or otherwise.
Drill it and knock of the edge...easy programming with a drill bit. Many ways to get it done.
Thank you Adam. I appreciate your sharing. F the haters.
Been watching you since you started UA-cam, still learn something every time. Thanks
I appreciate that!
Appreciate the effort to take us along. Job shop cnc can make you think outside the box.
If I had to do it all over again I would like to have learned machining and possibly made a career of it. As a young 20 year old I was fascinated with the process but a Military career to me in other directions. Never the less I do enjoy the machining & milling UA-cam channels.
Hey, I really appreciate this video! You really helped to take the mystery out of CDC programming, and how to fine tune things. I’d like to see more of these videos in the future!
Hi
Hey Abom, i think its a big value for all those who want to get into the CNC machining, you are doing them all a great favor the way you explain your operations and the way how you share your journey into this new chapter !
I for one will never touch a lathe, or a CNC, or any machining system, but I still find these videos fascinating.
Always a joy watching Abom turning metal its so soothing and relaxing actually!
Adam, you ought to just buy out that Welding Shop business.... 😉🤣
Something to help you out, edit the end of your program to send the tool to machine zero. I've noticed at the end of your program you leave the tool near your last cut so when you change the part you are working around the tool. It will help a lot when you are running a bunch of parts.
Keep up your exploration of new techniques and tools ❤
Thank you!
I personally really like seeing the cutting with coolant, that's just my preference though. It also gives me a lot more peace of mind watching this lol
Everyone is a professional in your comments, and complain about everything, i love it.😂 Killer work as always 🤘
Another excellent learning experience. Looks like he’s getting more comfortable with ‘the CNC way’.
Adam, fellow Milltronics user. We have a G32 in the end of code to take the tool out of the work area to toolchanger height. A G28Y0 will take the table to the operator. You may want to add a X component to that also. Awesome work !
If the holes are meant to hold bolts isn`t the hole location a little close to the wall?
Love the cleanup outro Adam, watched you for for 10+ years and i often wonder what goes on after jobs, or when you've got chips all over the shop floor!
Great courage to go into cnc world, i appreciate this, not many will do this move! Thank you for sharing your trip! You are getting there 👍
Great video Adam. Bet Joe at the Weld shop is going to need a new batch of these angles unless he has some very special nut being used. Doesn't make sense with the large clearance hole and being tight against the inside wall and radius. Let us know the outcome.
Thanks for sharing.
My first thought! There's no internal clearance for the size of nut or bolt head that would need a 13/16th hole, even allowing for a little wiggle room.
First I’ve watched in a year and I’m not disappointed. Thanks!
i have to say youtube not letting me get notifications on some of my subscribed channels is a bad thing and a good thing. i just spent the day catching up on your videos Adam. Just me with a beer and some homemade bbq ribs. Thank you for the great videos Adam, this content is my relaxation therapy.
If I were buying the tool bits and cutters etc. I would probably use the flood coolant all of the time. I agree, with all X,Y and Z programming, its likely a better idea to give more room than trying to start super close due to the variables in the stock material.
6:06. Listen carefully.
Very successful work Adam and clean and ready for the next batch.Thank you.
A36 is mystery steel, you never know what got recycled to make it or how homogenous the mix got. I've taken to treating it like 4140.
When I drill holes like that it is usually an accident and they don't come out round.😂. I hope experienced machinists don't mind your explanations. I am not a machinist at all. I just appreciate watching true craftsman doing their thing. So for a guy like me all explanations are useful and adds a lot to the viewing.
Thank you. I really appreciate that.
This one sparks joy!
This is a great learning experience for you.
My dad started building a machine shop when I was in high school.. Had a manual mill, lathe and shaper to begin with.. He found some old K&T Milwaukee-Matic (60's vintage NC).. Once we got the cnc bug - we never went back. We ended up getting rid of our manual mills... It is so easy and quick to setup one offs with a cnc vs manual. Keep learning!
I use tungaloy high feed mills every day. The 2" 5 flute is a beast and can turn a full 30hp into chips.
That tool you are using can be had as just a head that screws into a carbide shank. When you have to reach 4" into a tight spot with a small diamater tool, that is the best one ive found.
The MJ inserts last longer throwing sparks with an air blast then they do with coolant.
Gotta get me one of those tape measures with the extra large #'s . Retired electrician and drove me crazy hitting a hard spot while drilling in angle iron. Was told they use everything but the kitchen sink scrapes to make it. Used 4 by 4" angle iron to fasten 4 by 4" wood legs to my home made work bench. Used recycled 3 by 10" wood for top of bench. Thing weights a ton.
nice to see you back Adam.
That's awesome Adam. The old mill scale is tough on any tool you shove through there fast with or without coolant.
Another really interesting job, thanks for sharing your expertise!
Amazing! I would never of thought of doing something like this.
Manually add some Gcode to the end (before M30)so it's goes up and close to the door for ease of changing parts. Example
G0Z200
G0G53Y0
Great work.
Your problem solving is getting better but it sure helps to have all your experience
Good Job Adam love the sparks. 😅
NICE little project
I sure learned a lot from you your great teacher
Helical interpolation = needing WAY fewer drill bits.
I really have a small inventory of drills over 3/8". For low volume, interpolating holes is easy gold.
When ending the program home the tooling to the back to minimize the risk of hitting it with workpiece or your hand ! Ask me how I know !
especially the hand. stil have a scar from a drill that i clipped
Cool video!
Another great video that is best enjoyed without reading any comments 🥰
There are a lot of angry people here aren’t there?? Not sure why! Thanks for your sweet comment! -Abby ❤️
@@Abom79 yeah I'm not sure what's wrong with people you and Adam are some of the nicest most genuine people I have met. I have fond memories of Adam cooking us some killer lunches at John's shop doing the scraping class down in Florida, Adam and I spoke about him getting into CNC and I'm very happy to see he took the plunge and is doing well with it.
real production video👍
As others have said how will a hex head bolt or hex nut not interfere with back leg. ?
@abom79 little tip turn the pressure on your air gun down a bit, if you have it too high you can blow chips under the way covers and its a royal pain to remove them and clear it all out. The other thing you can do is put a diverter valve on your flood coolant and have a low pressure wash down hose.
something you were missing about the sparking of the inserts. The reason they sparked on the first couple is because by the tip it starts to break thru the other side the material gets thinner and ends up hitting the face of the cutter more. Then when you added the jacks it was constantly pushing the material back up into the cutter.
Good stuff my man!
Tungaloy is the king
Very nice work sir
Have you considered adding a command at the end of the program to raise the head up and away from the surface? It would make loading the pieces easier and less chance of hitting the tool.
And bring the table up to the door so you don't have to lean over so much. Let the robot do the work.
I use G30 for this
Seems to me a lot of people here don't understand Adam can do anything he likes from matching cramping barbecuing. I wish could do the same except i would go fishing. Good luck to Adam still love watching all of his channels ❤
Adam, with the CNC jobs note the spindle load during different parts of the job. Because it's CNC those loads should not change much part to part. When you start having worn tooling that number will jump pretty obviously.
Put at the end of the program, G53 Z0; G53 Y0; M30; It will bring the Z up and the table to the front at the end of the cycle.
I thought the same thing, but think just setting the g30 location to a z height where you could change tool if needed and the xy to where the table is front and centered. Then have program end with a g30 and follow up with m30.
Every single time hes done a batch job on the CNC, people have mentioned this to him. I don't know why the guy doing the training hasn't mentioned this to him too.
Too many people use the CAM as a crutch and turn out bad programs, I see it in my day job all the time. He should learn to hand write the progs first, then use CAM.
Did you notice that the sparks stopped when the harmonics came back after the jacks loosened?
Nice movie!
Nice to watch. Depending on tolerances needed these could be a very fast punch job. 4-5 pieced per min. I will say though circle interpolation seems as fast as drilling.
I noticed that the sparking reduced markedly when the improvised jacks walked out. Check the video.
G'day Adam. Great watching the CNC doing its thing. The carbide insert drill works like a dream, & considering the lifespan of the Carbide Insert, then it might be better & faster than an Annular Cutters, & cheaper.
Great video
Those were my favorite go to's
Cutting buttah😂
Vibration and no jack - no sparks
Jack and no vibration - sparks
I noticed that also! Very interesting that the vibrations reduced the amount of sparking. Or something did.
Forgot to add time + wear to the equation.
When I have millions of M3 tapped holes in a part, I do the same thing. .093" end mill and a .098" thread mill that has single thread cutting head and I interpolate the holes and threads. I do alot of copper and aluminum heatsinks that can be expensive mistakes if I break a drill or tap!.
Rust will also kill bits
Thanks, Adam, for using the Renishaw probe, at least during the setup :). Sometimes you have to use tools to find out when and where they really are useful and when not. Goodwill and trust from a long-term customer is money in the bank. To a certain degree, so is the little program that you created, tested, and improved. Save it, document it, and it might be reused as a first step toward solving a next job.
Is it possible to get your mill to report how much power the spindle motor is using during parts of the program? Comparing the actual rotational load to a reference load might give you a good idea of when you need to replace the inserts or to change your approach.
All the people saying a nut or bolt head won't fit, without knowing the application who knows, it's possible it's welded on where the bolt head is on the outside away from the leg of the angle and a long bolt down thru to who knows what, or they may be to clamp down into a groove or something hence why they want it near the vertical leg.
or even a bolt with a shaved hex head - won't need a wrench because it indexes on the inside face.
Lots of comments on this. And Adam was replying to comments earlier on, a bit of a rarity on here. But does he pin a comment and clear it all up? I guess not!.
So is there a batch of machinist jacks as a shop project coming up?
Feed rate seems a bit fast but I may be wrong. Looks good Adam!
Would a change to speed or feed stop that sparking or is it acceptable, things must be very hot for that to be happening. Im just a bit of an amateur machinist wanting to learn.
It's no problem that the chips are hot, if you want to kill the inserts faster use water.
"Todo mundo sabes todo pero no sabes un carajo" love the vids very interesting
Im just curious where you are getting your speeds and feeds for all these CNC videos? Always seems like sfm is always very high
yes, same here. Not that i know any better, just trying to learn. Would have liked to see 3 degree helix.
Does Fusion properly account for feedrate difference at the outside of the cutter when making holes that are that close to the size of the cutter? If it is just taking the calculated feed rate from the chip load and running that at the cebter of the cutter, it'll be way faster than you expected and could be why it needed coolant. There's a good HAAS tool tip video on that.
It does
Good point, for thread milling and bore milling Fusion does not account for this.
Awsome
how are they going to get 3/4 bolts in the holes without hitting the outstanding leg?
That's what I'm wondering
@@jeffreylane2967 The holes were supposed to be centered 1" from the inside of the angle not the outside. Oops
I suppose you noticed too that the sparks disappear through the majority of the cut when the jacks are not present or loose?
Precision parts drilling
Could the big machine drill these holes in the length of angle before it was cut? Just a thought. Thanks.
Hell, the big machine could drill all the holes, and cut (not very efficiently) the parts apart.
Not finding a place to buy these handy little mills. :(
Could just be material. Another indication of wear is watching load meter on spindle. Watch it as it runs. As you get through parts and your load meter starts looking higher through your cycles you’ll see it
Yeah!
Just think manual machining is good but cnc just saves time and effort great simple job
Can these do plunge hole cutting?
That is one very sweet machine. I have a CNC router that i want to mill some aluminum on but my problem is I can't slow the spindle down enough. I noticed you were milling at 6000 RPM which might work for me on aluminum in the CNC Router table.
why would you want to slow down the spindle in aluminium?
@@lunchman84 No i mean my spindle goes too fast. it loses a lot of torque if i slow it down too much.
6000 RPM is pretty much as slow as i can go.
@magicman9486 Exactly, but why? How big tools are you running? Singleflute tools will be your friend, high rpm low tool load and high feed.
@@lunchman84 I will probably just run single flute.
I noticed the sparks when the jacks were used. Is it possible the slight vibration from not using jacks made a difference?
the surface footage was too high which heat up the thin metal at the end of the cut plus poor chip evacuation
@@qqqqqqqq1407 SF was not too high.
@@MechanicalAdvantage 750 for a bore interpolation with no coolant is not too high?
@@qqqqqqqq1407 I would think the vibration wore out the first set of bits. Cooling/cutting fluid and new bits made for good chips.
@@qqqqqqqq1407It's in the MFG SF range.
Sparks for the fourth.
Sparks and booms! Don’t forget the booms, at least the ones you intend to happen.
don't see anyone making comments about the feed direction? should it feed in a clockwise direction? in my mind it will rub the insert running anti clockwise
on CNC machines you climb mill. on a bore that means going anti-clockwise
Why is it sparking when you use the machinist jacks but its not sparking when you dont use them?
Also you should not use flood coolant with insert tools
Rotabroach slugger bit was made for that job!
So....i always wonder what are you charging or what would someone doing this work charge?. I always wonder that
I suspect drilling 40 holes would cost around US$100, or $2.50 a hole, "out in the open" (away from export-controlled or defense industries, etc). Of course this depends on location, industry, lead time, and the relative sophistication of the vendor and customer. With some procurement capture like in defense, the pricing might be richer.
I could see a CNC shop quoting maybe 1-1.5 shop hours for this work (at 3.5 minutes per cycle this is 35 minutes of machine time), and at a fairway $150/shop hour, this would be $150-$225. Depending on the customer, that might be pocket change and you'd just get that money, but they might also protest, "dude this is just holes, it's not a hard job" and whittling that quote down, if they either were hard up or temperamentally enjoyed negotiating.
In realistic worlds, it would seem odd to even vendor out a job like this. You'd find the most junior person in the room and put them on a drill press to crank these out. Occupy a couple hours of their day on a grimy and repetitive but somewhat serene chore at $18/hr or whatever they're earning, plus pretty trivial consumables and capital costs. It would be odd to want a bunch of this kind of part and not have an appropriate knockaround drill press and access to entry-level manual labor.
In the case of this video, I'd be surprised if it there was any non-zero price. The revenue model is all video views and sponsorship revenue. I suspect Adam and Joe are trading the machining work for having something to film.
Need a new thing, the clamp jack. It has a top portion that can be tightened around the edge that the jack sits on. Never been designed before so you'll have to get to work.😁
It's weird to have the holes so close to the radius.
Is there space for a nut or bolt head?
Yup, chances are it's no good..... Not enough clearance for the nut. I've done millions of these (cnc plasma or Scotchman, depending on the tolerance). 1 7/8" is needed to clear the nut (2" is better) for the exterior surface. The inside angle will not work if less than 1 1/8" if measured from the corner
Maybe they are for studs. Or dowells for placement, or so the flat of the angle will hold the bolt head.
Give Adam's many years of ACTUAL WORK EXPERIENCE some credit. Way too many arm chair "experts" on youtube!
@@videodistroI think Adam is following instructions from the customer. If there is a clearance problem it's the customer fault.
@@videodistro Hey the customer asked for holes 1" in from the back of leg 1" in. I don't care what they do with the hole as long as its where the customer wanted it to be. Its not a job shops job to divine what the customer needs its their job to produce the part that they were told to produce. For a quicky job like this if I had talked to the customer and made sure that we were talking the same dimensions I would just run it. If I had any questions though since I was already on fusion to make the cam program I would make up a quick drawing for customer approval. Send that over to them in PDF with a digital signature field and make them sign off on it. That way if they did come back saying that the holes were in the wrong spot I could pull up their signed drawing and make sure I got paid.
@@TomDetka You got it right! Chances are they wanted the holes 1" from the web. At least the mistake is on angle iron. Even so time always costs more than material until you start playing with titanium
What is the "ramp" angle?
2 degrees
How is a bolt supposed fit against the leg of the angle?
Maybe they are for studs. Or dowells for placement, or so the flat of the angle will hold the bolt head.
Give Adam's many years of ACTUAL WORK EXPERIENCE some credit.
Is there a reason the cutter is climb milling, rather than conventional milling?
you get better finish with climb milling, also less recutting chips; but only if you have ballscrews
Because cnc
Also the cutters deflection is away from the finished surface resulting in closer tolerance. Conventional milling can cause some cutters to deflect towards your finished surface resulting in an oversized or undersized cut.
If you think about the way a tooth carves out a chip, viewed from the top along the spindle axis, you will realize that the chip is thick at one end, and tapers to zero at the other end. Cutting tools don't like to take a bite that is too thin, so if you start at the thin end, you will always get some tool deflection and rubbing before the tooth has enough engagement to bite. That's conventional milling. With climb milling, the tooth starts at the thick edge of the chip, and moves to the thin edge, so it bites in right away. The result is better surface finish and less vibration.
You can't safely do climb cutting on conventional mills (except for very light cuts) because of the way the cutting forces interact with the play in the lead screw. There's a risk that the tool will pull the work into itself and take up all the play at once, which can cause such a spike in cutting force that it can break tools, damage parts, or pull the work out of the vise. That's not an issue with CNC machines because the ballscrews have virtually no play.
@@danmenes3143 Thanks for this walk-through 😊
Why did the majority of the sparks fly to the left?
he had an air line off to the right blowing air across to the left
Must be liberals. 😉
Excellent video, thanks. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Have Z return home/tool change position and position x and y so it’s easier to change parts.