Wargames Unearthed | The Campaign for North Africa
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
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Two friends of mine played (part of) this over one summer vacation, but I went away for the summer and only got to play (part of) a single turn.
ok ok so whats the objective and how do you even play the thing
Paradox Interactive: I make pretty complex board-ish computer games
Richard Berg: You are like a little baby
"Average Playing Time 20-1000 Hours" Right. 20 hours. Is that the length of time to open the box, get everything set up, read the rules, realize you've made a horrible mistake, and then put it all back?
I have this from when it was released. Even tried playing a few turns solitaire over a summer break when I was in high school. I think I completed 3 turns. There was more logistics than fighting, although I recall flying a lot of sorties with aircraft (each plane with rated pilots tracked separately). Besides the notorious "Italian Pasta" rule, there was a lot of cool stuff, like after any battle with AFVs, the victor could claim some percentage of knocked out enemy tanks and add them to their own units, replenishing some of their own losses. I also remember the Germans lost less gasoline than others to "spillage", since they had the Jerry Can, which had better properties. The stuff you learned just from reading the rules...
I had never realized why it was called a jerry can. Huh.
@@paper9362 A youtuber named Calum has a very popular video about all the little design concepts that made a Jerry can so useful. It exists unchanged even today, its actually fascinating how much thought went into each element of its design.
This game seems more like a job than a game
if you played with 10 people for 3 hours twice a month it would only take roughly 20 years to finish a game
I just roll a d6 and that's all the thrill I need. Once I got "3" 6 times in a row, good times.
@@informitas0117the legends are true 🤩
"map shows light signs of wear" It's almost half a century old! :)
Well, it didn't see much play on it.
I wonder if anyone has ever converted this to a computer game.? Writing a competent AI opponent would be a challenge. But the book keeping stuff and mechanics would be fairly straightforward on a computer.
I'll have some things to say about this: Gary Grigsby's War in the East automates a lot of what Berg did here.
I know it's been put in tabletop simulator, but I'm unaware of anything else.
advancedest wars
At that point just play HOI4
I never dared to try to get it, since the prices skyrocketed after it was featured on an episode of Big Bang Theory.
We played this for 3 months and it is an accountant's game and got bored. We gave up! I use it for reference now. A much better game is GMT's Panzer 41, It has an elegant way to handle supply and logistics without the cumbersome mechanism of CNA. Supply is a critical element to combat. The ports have huge value. I think you get the same feel without the Pain and Boredom. Good luck with this one!
Are you mentioning Mark Simonitch's NA '41 or some other GMT Game, because I looked Panzer 41 and can't find any.
What an outstanding copy! Although i guess there arent too many "players copies" out there. I recall picking up a copy in '86 in London from a tube driver who kindly fore-warned me of its terror-inducing depth. It was £12 used!
Always thought that this kind of logistics based strategy could work as a computer game since youd have the computer do all the calculations so you could focus on the, well, more interesting aspects of logistic strategy.
My god its huge. Enjoy your pasta counter playing as Italy.
The pasta point isn't particularly reasonable, everyone needs to eat water, even non Italians.
@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts yes but you need large amounts of water to cook pasta, assuming pasta was indeed a substantial part of italian rations, this would not be unreasonable.
@@Graymenn As someone who cooked pasta last night, I consider myself an expert on this part of WW2, as such I can say that while yes, pasta requires quantities of water, you need, especially in a desert, large quantities of water anyway. Using that water ration to cook pasta, then drinking the pasta water doesn't take any extra water. You're meant to be drinking 1.5 liters a day, but much more in a desert, doing exerting physical activity.
When this first came out, I attended a seminar conducted by Reichard Berg on this game at Origins '79. Mr. Berg at one point stated that the historical booklet included in the game was worth the price alone. I thought to myself then, what is the point of buying a game which I will probably never play and that for the same amount of money, I could but a very good book on that campaign. I had heard things about its insane complexity and did not buy it. One famous story was that in playtesting, one player left POWs in a wadi to and left them there to avoid using supplies for them. In hindsight, from an investment standpoint I probably should have bought one just to store it. A year after SPI went south, there was one vendor at an Origins that had several soap box SPI games for sale. I think most of the prices were in the $400 range for what was a $50 game just a short while ago. I asked the vendor how much he would give me for an unpunched soap box War in Europe. He offered $40 credit or $20 cash which he would then turn around and slap a $400 tag on it.
As to the game on the Big Bang Theory. Does anyone know how this was written into the script? I was curious if anyone connected with the show was a wargamer.
Next time I'm back in NYC I will look for my copy of the errata.
Looks like there is an errata file on BGG.
Thanks, Mark!
Oh my God. It's beautiful 😢.
I think I may be buried with my copy. It would be hard to part with it.
Had this, set it up, played forever and achieved perhaps 3 turns. I so wanted to love it but it was so, so labour intensive. I had no access to a copier so the log sheets were all hand drawn replicas and filled in in pencil. Masochism par excellence.....
What people think hearts of iron 4 feels like…
My take is that the air campaign made this ... silly. The simulation capability just wasn't there. And the Italian pasta rule was stupid. However, there was a germ of an interesting simulation in there. At the end of the day it's an incredible attempt for the day.
Congrats on the acquisition, well earned! Looks like a beautiful copy as well.
I've been torn on whether to pursue obtaining a copy of this game. On the one hand, it is probably THE most notorious game in wargaming history (but I've found that a lot of games have been saddled with some not-quite-so-deserved reputations, and this may be one). It's a game that almost everyone in the hobby is aware of, and few have actually seen in the wild. It would be fascinating to get a firsthand look at the mechanics and systems in the game, taking a peak into the state of game design in the late 1970's at SPI. But at the asking prices that it's going for on the secondary market, it is a lot of money to pay for game that I may never actually play. Plus, there's Dean Essig's DAK. Dean was not shy about stating the problems with CNA spurred him to find a better a way, and OCS eventually came along. I'm fortunate enough to own DAK2, and I really have to question whether CNA would be something that I would play. One of my fundamental rules for acquiring wargames is that I acquire games that I am going to play, not have them sit on the shelf in a collection. Perhaps with the closer look you'll be giving us I will have my mind made up one way or the other finally.
I'm really stoked for you (and I'm glad it didn't take years to get your hands on a pristine copy). You can hear the excitement, reverence, and anticipation in your voice! I'm REALLY looking forward to your future content on this title!
Congratulations for obtaining the game in such good condition. I would be hesitant to unpunch it!
I'm waiting for playthrough video...
We need a game just like this but a lot more playable and make it a video game version so you can play with AI.
I would love to try this. Especially since logistics are just as important as fighting.
Edit:
I found that there’s a tabletop simulator version but I don’t think tabletop simulator has AI so rip to me
Have fantasized about owning this game, but alas probably nothing will,. Will have to live vicariously through your future videos. Congrats! 🍾
The beast! The monstrosity! The utter game of the void! the game that has ended marriages, separated friends, it’s here!
akum….sorry, got a little excited there.
Congrats!
I hear the joy…. And life seems pretty complete. Congratulations on the acquisition!!
I needed 8 counter trays and an extra box to sort and store all those counters.
Good grief !!!! 😯
You have enough fans of you UA-cam channel to actually play this online via Vassal with teams of 10 or 12 on each side!
Woah that is no joke. There is a serious amount of design work in there! Pretty cool!
4:45
~2k counters
20x2 counter tray sections
--> 50 counters per section
hmmm ...
soooooooo ur the one that grabbed it when it hit noble knight..........lol u beat me
WOW. You did it! The game looks -- visually -- great. I wonder how it would do as a computer game. Whatever the case, it's definitely an object worthy of study.
playing time : one THOUSAND hours
lol
Congrats Gary! 🍻
I had a copy that I got second hand and it just sat. I sold it for $400 and wish I kept it as it has gone up more!!!
😅i attended CSW in Tempe last year, where a hearty group , armed all with Laptops, on a massive table, i think 8 players, played daily for the week, and I believe they completed 2 turns!!
SPI Corinth is a good game. I hope you get to play that one.
Very nice presentation.
Are you planning to clip this? With the registration so close to the edge may be dicey. Thanks for sharing this with us.
I will 100% clip this. At 2mm you're losing very little.
Enjoy? 😆
This game was Insane
Congrats on getting the game!
Amazing congratulations!
This game was featured on an episode of 'Big Bang Theory"...
10:40
Richard Berg an interesting character to say the least. May he rest in peace.
6:30 If possible could you share the pages for the historical background booklet? I’ve found PDFs for the game online that have everything except that so I’d very much appreciate a good look at it.
Email me and we can talk about it.
Ha ha ha! Good luck with the insanity!
Congratulations, please enjoy.
I agree with your excitement.
Congrats brother
YEAH!!!!!
Congratulations! What is the next game on your list?
Not sure yet. Maybe I'll do a poll!
@@ardwulfslair Looking forward to learning - it'll be incentive to buy more from Nk with the affiliate link!
Well done sir. 👍
is kinda funny that playing with 10 MF`s 18 hours per week for around 6 years you can finish a WW2 board game, taking more time than the real WW2 :)
is a good game for a group of death row felonies with long waiting times......
There is a solo mode?
No. You could just multi-hand it, but for a game that plays as slowly as this with 10 players, it seems impractical.
I like fun games that are fun
I might be stoned, but youre a low key funny dude 😂
Thank you! This is indeed basically my vibe.
@@ardwulfslair cheers brother all the best 👍