I've been running draw through with propane for a while now with pretty good results (forklift parts). It sucks a TON of fuel down though. It's just kind of scary to think I'm sucking explosive compressed gas through a screaming hot turbo and some home depot hot tub hoses and toilet accesories, then down the intake. But it's been loyal for 5 years even starting right up in -20F weather. My mounts and adapters are 100% from the plumbing department and it's set up that you can steal ANY bbq tank and drive about 50 miles in a pinch. Not recommended but you can do this relatively safely if there is a gasoline shortage and you have an emergency.
This is a great turbocharging technique that I have not seen in any discussions or videos. Figured that some knowledge on this subject could be shared to inform and give ideas to anyone that would like an easy turbo setup not needing an intercooler or any complicated expensive computer controlled fuel injection systems. Its a great proven reliable way to make turbo power on a very reasonable budget.
Yes either internal waste gate that is built in on most turbochargers or an external waste gate mounted on the turbo header before the turbine flange to regulate exhaust pressure in turn boost.
+Budget Boosting Forced induction doesn't change compression ratio. it increases your theoretical displacement by increasing compression pressure. (higher pressure at bottom of stroke, higher pressure at TDC.) The ratio between the volume of the cylinder at the bottom of the stroke compared to TDC doesn't change. Serious block/crankshaft modding is required to change this ratio. You need higher octane fuel to resist knock, or install a head spacer to increase the cylinder volume at TDC (Compression ratio stays the same, more volume at bottom stroke, more at top, in an equal proportion) to offset the increase in cylinder pressure. Shorter connecting rods and shorter piston heads will also have this effect. While the aforementioned options may allow the use of non-premium fuel, you have lower power output than stock whilst boost is building, since the cylinder pressure has a big effect on power output, and is the sole determining factor in what grade fuel you need to run. The rest of the video is pretty helpful though, thank you for explaining the simplest way to turbo a carbureted engine.
I pray his erratic mind found peace 10 years later lol😂. To be honest one of the best videos i seen on drawn through setups on UA-cam. What a shame none of the tags direct people to the video 😢
I think - I know this is what youtube needs. Not a rich kid showing off what his parent got him or zinc he doesn hav family every dollar goes to his car. This is probably the best budget video I've seen- minus the cockyness. Great job break in it down too. I wish you the best. You give us dads hope of still building. Solid car/ motor an having. Family. Thanks. Jason.
my intension is not cockiness, but being informative on ways that performance can be had within reasonable budget limits. I guess I am not very personable but that's me.
@@budgetboosting I said you were not cocky but efficient in your demonstration, & the he or she was easily offended. That's thanks to the political correctness, it makes people who don't have their own thoughts very weak minded.
Man it's Incredible, how the whole system works, here in Brazil little or hardly you see something like this, I'm Brazilian and I don't understand the English language, but its language, its pronunciation is very comprehensive, I barely needed subtitles, won a subscriber Brazilian Sorry for the translation (Google Translator) Success !!
Love the info. I'm on a tight budget and it looks like a draw thru setup is the way to go. I have a 1964 Mustang with the original great running 260 V8. Want to add sone power without the pain of swapping to a 302 like everyone suggests. If you know anything about Fords you know they ain't exactly universal on switching engines and transmissions.
Hey thanks for the video. Prior to this I didn't even know what that was I heard someone talk about it being on an 81 trans am. I appreciate you taking your time to explain this. was great help.
Hello Mad Matt. Just wanted to say that this video on DRAW through turbocharging has re-inspired me to add some form of "supercharging" to my Slant Six! Your style and instruction is very straight forward and no-nonsense. Very helpful to those who might otherwise be intimidated by such an undertaking. I have been toying with idea of turbocharging for some time. But I was under the impression that turbos and carburetors don't play very well with one another. This notion may have been perpetuated by the crude technology and engineering of turbocharging by auto manufacturers in the late-70's through the early-80's. They seemed to have had reliability issues and disappointing performance despite all of the advertising hype. Your videos have changed my perspective. I'm sure many other of your subscribers have felt the same way.It seems to me, that basically the Draw-Through arrangement is not all that different than bolting a carb(s) on to of a "traditional" Roots style crank-driven super charger for a similar effect of increasing the PSI of air/fuel mixture into the manifold plenum. The Draw Through configuration seems to me to be a great entry-level experience into the world of Turbocharging. Because of this new-found information that you graciously offered, I am seriously considering "dipping my toe" into creating my forced induction fabrication projectA couple quick questions. How much should someone expect to pay for a used '80-'81 301 Turbo Firebird carburetor (or other GM turbo) 4 bbl. mounting plenum that allows the air/fuel mixture into the turbo inlet? Also, does the carb necessarily have to be above, or at least level height with the intake manifold? The reason I ask is because I might have some vertical space considerations to deal with in terms of clearance issues. My hope is that the draw from the turbocharger would basically force (suck) the air/fuel mixture into the housing without having to be concerned with using gravity for the mixture of a carbureted, natural aspirated configuration. Thanks in advance and keep the great videos coming.
+WasntMeOfficer I was lucky on ebay, I purchased the draw through carb mounting plenum for around $50, its pretty much hit and miss on ebay. Saw other auctions for the whole carb, plenum and turbo combination for around $800.00 on ebay auctions. Wrecking yards would also be a good source since many do not know of all the draw through turbo cars made from 78-83 until fuel injection was the way the manufacturers went with turbocharging. I recently purchased the first generation turbo buick which is a draw through 4 bbl. carbureted 3.8 turbo V6 which started the evolution towards the famous Buick Grand nationals that hit the scene and made turbocharging ever so popular today. In my area Fallon, Nevada, I also spotted a 1980 Pontiac turbo trans am which had the draw though 4bbl. carbureted turbocharged 301 ci V8, the first of its kind from the factory. He didn't have a for sale sign on it however, have seen it for sale on the internet.
so glad I found this. it is giving me ideas for my little Toyota 4ac. gonna show people that with time and knowledge you can get performance without having to drop in a more "popular" engine.
JESUS THIS VIDEO TAUGHT ME EVERYTHING I NEED TO KNOW ABOUT TURBO-ING MY 83 GTI. Thanks! haha I always thought it was very complicated because I didn't know this was possible, I only knew about blow through. SUBSCRIBED!
VERY cool! And I thought I knew everything. LOL I know those Buick's were capable of being real fast! Keep the info coming. I am enjoying the vids very much!
Back in the 80's I had a 76 chevelle SS that I did this setup on. A company made a kit that had the turbo, carb intake and adaptor to bolt on top of the intake manifold. The carb wound up where the battery was so I relocated it to the other side. The only tricky part was the exhaust. I recall having to pipe the left side headers over to the right side and Y them together and then into the turbo that sat on the right side behind the carb with a single exhaust pipe coming out of the turbo.. The advantage with Draw through systems is you dont have to mess with the jetting or anything really. Since it's pulling the gas with the air it just pulls more of both in proportion so the mixture can basically stay the same... With forced systems you you have to increase fuel flow to keep up with the air your pushing in there. So these systems can be installed in an afternoon without any tuning other than retarding the timing a bit to prevent detonation. Of course with so many cars being fuel injected now and ECUs thjngs are complicated, but if you get your hands on a carburated car these things are fun. That chevelle was a total sleeper and was so quite since I just had the one pipe into just a bigger stock muffler. So fun smoking all those big cam loud Street rods back in the day. They would take me off the line but the look on their faces when I quietly passed them was priceless.
Nothing wrong with draw through setups people. Indy Cars were doing over 200 miles per hour in the 60s into the 70s with it. At one point there was so much debate over draw VS blow, that even A.J. Foyt used upstream and downstream fuel injection in his FOYT engines, and was one of the fastest out there. I had a 'new 79 4cyl Turbo Mustang Pace Car, that I tuned and tweaked with 22lbs of boost, ethanol through the top of my carb, for extra charge cooling, and I smoked almost everything on the freeway from Berdoo to Long Beach. I could run with a Carrera until I ran out of gears, I only had a 4 speed BUTTTT it would get me to 151.... according to the CHP ;) .
My dad had a 400 horse full forged 2.3 turbo in a merkur when i was younger used to take it down for track days and race against the turbo carreras he could run them down on the straights but wasnt as fast coming out of the turns but if he held his line he could really run with them
Thanks for the explanation. Although I do not exactly know how a blow through turbocharger works. As I would like to use a M122 roots style supercharger that is blown into a turbocharger on an LS engine. I just have not figured out how to route everything correctly.
Thanks!. Not a bad rundown.Remember some exhaust manifolds (factory made) had provision for external wastegate ...as in the Mitsubishi sigma turbo (Australia) 1981!.
+John Caton They all have either an internal wastegate built on the turbo charger or an external wastegate built on the turbo header or exhaust manifold. If not, the turbo would overspeed and cause engine or turbo damage or both.
good to know stuff here. former fc2 (disabled here). draw through are good when you live in a warmer climate. i have one in storage for the buick 3.8 and 2 grand national turbo setups (i am thinking about putting one on each bank of my 429 BBF). if you look at the draw through setups, when the air is drawn through the carb, it gets REALLY cold and condenses. if you watch a car running, youll see the intake sweating before the turbo. one doesnt want to use a mechanical carb either. vacuum 2nd is best because youll want a large carb to feed the turbo but bigger will kill power while not spooling... what i want to do is take the draw through setup and run propane through it. that way, you would have the 9:1 or so and still have low end torque, but not knock and ping at higher rpm due to octane of propane. should be able to turn the boost up higher with propane for that reason. can you shed any light?
The challenge of propane would be the challenge of how to inject it into the carburetor. It's a good idea, however you would almost have to inject it directly into your manifold, and experiment when to inject it. You would have to have a system that injected it at specific times, similar to a nitrous kit. I highly recommend if you can get 100+ Octane fuel, I would stick with that, because it's more consistent and manageable than propane would be. We run 100LL (Low Lead) AV Gas, which is available at our local airport.
they have a carb hat to mix the propane. fits on the air filter ring. remove the jets and seal a few things in the carb and yer golden. once adjusted, its passing fuel/air like normal air. seems easier this way..i just havent played with it.
I ran propane for many year they have an assembly called a mixer . It served the same function as a carb but no float. You adjust the Mixer turn dial for rich or lean no heating required. A heater is required which warms the Propane as it evaporated and requlates the pressure to the mixer. O The heater is just a pressure regulatory with heater hoses lines from the engine to warm the vapor. Propane runs from 100 octane to 115 far superior to gasoline. Easy to install. Propane lives to run at ,12.5 to one compression ratio. Propane Enters the mixer intake and engine as a gas no droplet or pudding. The mixer does not need a Ventura to function. Propane having higher octane than gas can be run lean at high compression with more ignition advance than gas. Because the propane is always vapor at mixer presure unlike gas it will not wash down cylinders. Propane Will resist knocking very well and burns 100% of the fuel very clean powerful and can achieve good fuel economy if you use high compression and lean mix propane does not need a choak or high Idle when cold starting because it is already vaporized it will start soon as you bump the engine even at 40 below zero.
great info dude, i never knew there is 2 types of carb boosting. Draw-through being the simplest, am i right to say that blow through setup is more efficient and safe for turbo itself? tq
I've got a 83 F150,I'm gonna do something very similar! But I have a question..Do you need to get bigger Jets, float bowl and Higher pressure Fuel pump to supply the engine with the Needed fuel the engine is now Requiring? " Will you need to alter the carb to supply enough fuel?"
Amazing video. You explained everything so easily. I drive carb engine cars (not American, just small Japan cars) all my driving life and always was thinking about put turbo (or compressor) on them. But in my country modified carbs are lost art :) But this video gave me so thoughts and maybe...
Budget Boosting years ago HKS made a twin TD06 turbocharged set up blowing through triple Mikuni side draft carburators for the L28. Awesome combination and set up, hard to find but one of a kind. Can be found in Yahoo Auctions Japan sometimes. Would be nice to see those set ups for sale internationally again. I'm sure there would be lots of z fans that would order them.
TREY CARVALHO @url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=HJHd_CG6RFKlhM&tbnid=JgIV2dHo7goNOM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zdriver.com%2Fforum%2F280zx-s130-forums-77%2Fcarb-conversion-23075%2F&ei=_yr6U4nCEoytogSYpYKAAg&bvm=bv.73612305,d.cGE&psig=AFQjCNGVmbQFxyxdJt1oodDDuhF0oRt4ow&ust=1408990327158331 This is a kit Jim Cook racing sold several years ago to fit 1970 through 1983 Nissan/Datsun Z cars. This kit was around $3500 back then and it was complete with turbocharger, custom turbo header, wastegate, air cleaner intercooler, triple weber side draft carburators with custom surge tank to feed boost to those carbs. This was a very powerful combination for the old z cars and would make a fortune if someone would start fabricating and selling these complete kits again. Food for thought.
In the late 80's (87?)GM used a preheater under the carb on the s-10 4 cyl engines, it vaporized the fuel before it got into the engine, increased gas mileage by a ton when it was on all the time, so they incorporated a heat sensor to make it run intermittently, the deisel engines in most new pickups use an electric heater on the incoming air, any thoughts on this instead of using methanol to stop freeze ups?
James Krys Outstanding, Sometimes I may be off a year or so, 65 was in my head at the time.... The point is, draw through has been around a long time and can be quite successful if done correctly. Thanks for watching.
It has the risk of fuel air mixture get ignited in the turbine or before get into cyllinder, hasn'tbit? And it will be difficult to startup the engine, the fuel-air mixture has long way to get into cyllinder, wouldn't it?
Highly unlikely. Your compressor must be running way too hot for this to happen. If it's running that hot, then you have bigger problems. Starting the engine wouldn't be a problem. Enough fuel and air and it goes boom in the cylinders. The question is, how do you control fuel flow for a normal idle
I have this setup on my Datsun 240z with 2" su carburettor but it overfuel engine especially if off boost. Any advice please? I can send pictures or video on massager
Not sure if anybody has the time to answer this question but im curious; has anybody added a turbo on a 20R toyota engine? Im currently rebuilding my 1980 toyota truck 20R engine ,and was thinking about adding a turbo to help with towing a micro-camper.
Do you need a special turbo? Like will the turbo need special seals to deal with the vacuum caused when you let off the throttle? I’m asking because I never turbocharged a motor but I assume if it I get a turbo that was intended for fuel injection the turbo would not be built to see vacuum on the input side. Thanks
I guess another thing to ask about would be distributor timing. How will a stock distributor react to boost instead of vacuum when you put a load on the engine? I’ve got a 403 olds that is stock and would like to try this possibly. Thanks again.
R Sanchez Having a modern supercharged and fuel injected set up would make it much easier to turbocharge. You final product would be supercharger off the line and turbo boost from midrange to redline. In my opinion the best set up you could do. Look up Hennessey performance Ford GT supercharged and turbocharged super car. To do this you run the turbocharger boost to the intercooler and then to the intake of the throttle body leading to the supercharger. Draw through or blow through turbo combinations are for older carbureted cars or cars that you would prefer to convert to carburetor. Thank you for watching and hope this answers your questions.
Hello, first off, great explanation. I wanted to learn the basics of turbocharging with carburated engines. Im thinking about doing a Briggs and Stratton turbo engine for a go kart power build. But I think there are some problems with turbocharging a single cylinder engine with no oil pan. How do I get around that.
Got a good question for you what about a blow off valve how are you going to regulate the pressure when you let off the throttle aren't you going to have a lot of turbo lag
i like the info. curious if you have run the setup on any vehicles yet. im looking to do this on a small motorcycle but curious if fuel heating in the compressor housing is an issue due to the temps the turbo gets up to?
@@budgetboosting are you referring to two carbs side by side like the older Nissans twin Mikuni setup? Or a two barrel Mikuni? (My '84 RM250 ran the same carb as my buddies Nissan 4x4 which ran two on a 4banger...it would float.. lol)
Awesome video,I have a 87 sentra 5 speed e16i and it desperately needs a boost 69hp factory just will not do I think this would be a great option for it or engine swap,any thoughts?
hey man great video u made it easier for me to understand the concept i want to know if that will work for a Honda hornet cb600f sport bike in this hot climate we have down here thanks
+komonology I believe it would work great, the hard part is finding the space around the engine for all the components, motorcycle engines are usually in there pretty tight. Let me know how it goes.
My turbo is a ray Jay . And has no internal gate . Can I run an external gate ? And how would I plumb positive boat pressure to make the gate work ? There would be fuel going through the gate?
Intake manifold pressure line to actuate external waste gate under boost pressure. Wastegate installed just before turbo flange to regulate exhaust which
Hey Matt, I was wondering for a draw through set up whether you have to modify the carb? I know on a blow through you need a double pumper set up but I would like to know if it’s the same thing. Or I can use a double pumper set up on a draw through. Or I don’t have to adjust it at all because the carb is on outside? Thanks.
Wouldn't it have more lag than a draw through setup? Since it's only drawing with more exhaust pressure, but to get that pressure you would need to send fuel through
I have a neat little frankenstien that i'm building. I found a kit i believe is from the mid eighties made by RM. It's for a small block chevy. Really nice manifolds a cross over pipe an Air Research 62mm turbo drawthrough setup. I am mounting it on a vortec L31 5.7 litre 350 through performer rpm intake manifold. However instead of carbed I will be trying to mount a tbi on top as it is going in my 87 chev shortbox. What do you think? should work just as good as a carb if not better no?
+hotshothogger Many great TBI kits out there. I especially like the ones in Summit racing, one of them has a TBI system, standalone electronics rated to manage 21 pounds of boost. That would be my choice.
For this draw through setup... do you need to change the Cam ( as you would a standard Turbo system), or could I just put in and run with a Non turbo camshaft?
Cam change is not necessary if the cam already has an rpm power range that matches or is very close to the rpm range that your turbo makes power. I choose my camshaft to match the rpm power band to that of turbo as close as possible to ensure they work together. I also do the same to match the intake manifold power band with that of the turbo to pick my cam. When shopping for cams and intake manifolds they usually describe it's working power band for example 1500 to 6500 rpm. My selecting of cams would be the same for draw through as for any other style of boosting forced induction.
Stock cams work best for many turbocharged cars. Upgraded cams affect overlap which makes the time the valves are open to cram "boost" into the cylinder less or never completely closed at the same time to make a positive pressure in the cylinder. Im not good at explaining things but trust me. Your stock cam is turbo friendly.
Finally found you! Thanks pal! Subscribed, added to my Favorites, Shared and everything else! Now can you tell me about the blow off system? Does it need one? Thanks!
Excellent video. I have a willys jeep with F-134 Hurricane engine. I am inspired to turbo charge it after seeing your video :) Will there be any icing issues in the carburetor? If so how can it be addressed? Can i run the turbo with LPG with the same set up? I also have an LPG conversion kit installed in my jeep.
Ato Lkr Startup will be fun in extreme cold conditions however since the carburetor is in the engine bay, the engine will warm it up after some time idling. Its not too bad with electric choke. The 1978 through 1983 Turbo Buicks and 1980 and 81 Pontiac Trans Am turbo had draw through carb setups from the factory and they did start quite well. There was also a heat riser from the factory from the exhaust manifold leading to the air cleaner to warm things up even more upon startup.
any tips or recommendations for doing a 22r Toyota truck? this seams to be a cheap way for me to boost mine I'm boosting on a budget and looking for mild performance as its a show truck and alot of sound
Is there any problem between the gasoline and the heat made by the turbo? if the gasoline and aire mixure that goes from the carb into the compressor get overheat... could i explote?
+Diego Padilla This system was successful in the 1978 through 1983 Buick regal turbo V6 engines as well as the 1980 and 1981 Pontiac Trans Am turbo engines. The importance being just the right amount of fuel not too much where fuel could pool in the compressor where an intake backfire could light it up.
You don't need any of that. There's no pressure in the intake when the carb is closed (off throttle) and without exhaust gases the turbo doesn't spool up either. When you're off the throttle, you simply have no residual boost like you would with a blow through setup or a conventional fuel injected setup.
this draw through setup would be good to run with propane jeep. altitude friendly, cleaner running and runs at any angle. i have a 3.8 i am going to put in. just debating on draw through of my 84 grand national. i want simple that wont keel over if i get the jeep in the water. =)
Where did you source the draw through plumbing? From bottom of carb to turbo inlet peice? I cannot find anyone anywhere or I missing the name or something
It needs to be customized to your vehicle and carb. There are a lot of draw through carb set ups sold for turbo charging VW bugs the old ones. They have draw thru piece you can mount carb on and attach to inlet of turbo compressor.ronlummusracing.com/product/holley-four-barrel-carburetor-intake-manifold-3-cast/ ronlummusracing.com/product/holley-four-barrel-carburetor-intake-manifold-3-cast/ For example above
I've been running draw through with propane for a while now with pretty good results (forklift parts). It sucks a TON of fuel down though. It's just kind of scary to think I'm sucking explosive compressed gas through a screaming hot turbo and some home depot hot tub hoses and toilet accesories, then down the intake. But it's been loyal for 5 years even starting right up in -20F weather. My mounts and adapters are 100% from the plumbing department and it's set up that you can steal ANY bbq tank and drive about 50 miles in a pinch. Not recommended but you can do this relatively safely if there is a gasoline shortage and you have an emergency.
Where did you get the exhaust manifold?
@@jerryp2433 Its an ultra rare stock Chevy Turbo Sprint manifold. Its basically a Geo Metro lol
@@misterbulger oh. I heard of those.
This is a great turbocharging technique that I have not seen in any discussions or videos. Figured that some knowledge on this subject could be shared to inform and give ideas to anyone that would like an easy turbo setup not needing an intercooler or any complicated expensive computer controlled fuel injection systems. Its a great proven reliable way to make turbo power on a very reasonable budget.
Hi man great video! one question, how do you set the turbo pressure on this configuration? do you need a waste gate valve?
Thanks!
Yes either internal waste gate that is built in on most turbochargers or an external waste gate mounted on the turbo header before the turbine flange to regulate exhaust pressure in turn boost.
+Budget Boosting Corvairs are badass. FUCK RALPH NADER! UNSAFE!!!!!!!
+Budget Boosting Forced induction doesn't change compression ratio. it increases your theoretical displacement by increasing compression pressure. (higher pressure at bottom of stroke, higher pressure at TDC.) The ratio between the volume of the cylinder at the bottom of the stroke compared to TDC doesn't change. Serious block/crankshaft modding is required to change this ratio. You need higher octane fuel to resist knock, or install a head spacer to increase the cylinder volume at TDC (Compression ratio stays the same, more volume at bottom stroke, more at top, in an equal proportion) to offset the increase in cylinder pressure. Shorter connecting rods and shorter piston heads will also have this effect. While the aforementioned options may allow the use of non-premium fuel, you have lower power output than stock whilst boost is building, since the cylinder pressure has a big effect on power output, and is the sole determining factor in what grade fuel you need to run.
The rest of the video is pretty helpful though, thank you for explaining the simplest way to turbo a carbureted engine.
i have a weber 3838 would that be enough fuel
Love the simplicity of it. Finally a video that gives me confidence to go and try it
I pray his erratic mind found peace 10 years later lol😂. To be honest one of the best videos i seen on drawn through setups on UA-cam. What a shame none of the tags direct people to the video 😢
I think - I know this is what youtube needs. Not a rich kid showing off what his parent got him or zinc he doesn hav family every dollar goes to his car. This is probably the best budget video I've seen- minus the cockyness. Great job break in it down too. I wish you the best. You give us dads hope of still building. Solid car/ motor an having. Family. Thanks. Jason.
my intension is not cockiness, but being informative on ways that performance can be had within reasonable budget limits. I guess I am not very personable but that's me.
The dude wasn't cocky, you are just easily offended. As people we need to look at ourselves 1st. He was efficient in his presentation.
@@budgetboosting I said you were not cocky but efficient in your demonstration, & the he or she was easily offended. That's thanks to the political correctness, it makes people who don't have their own thoughts very weak minded.
Don’t mistake cockyness for confidence.
Yo wtf this guy isn’t cocky at all he’s super helpful actually.
Man it's Incredible, how the whole system works, here in Brazil little or hardly you see something like this, I'm Brazilian and I don't understand the English language, but its language, its pronunciation is very comprehensive, I barely needed subtitles, won a subscriber Brazilian
Sorry for the translation (Google Translator)
Success !!
I love this guy, this is exactly what I needed in my project car 😁
Love the info. I'm on a tight budget and it looks like a draw thru setup is the way to go. I have a 1964 Mustang with the original great running 260 V8. Want to add sone power without the pain of swapping to a 302 like everyone suggests. If you know anything about Fords you know they ain't exactly universal on switching engines and transmissions.
How did it go?
This is exactly what i needed to know for my project car. Thank you for sharing!
Hey thanks for the video. Prior to this I didn't even know what that was I heard someone talk about it being on an 81 trans am. I appreciate you taking your time to explain this. was great help.
thank you for the best simplest explanation I've seen to date.
Hello Mad Matt. Just wanted to say that this video on DRAW through turbocharging has re-inspired me to add some form of "supercharging" to my Slant Six! Your style and instruction is very straight forward and no-nonsense. Very helpful to those who might otherwise be intimidated by such an undertaking. I have been toying with idea of turbocharging for some time. But I was under the impression that turbos and carburetors don't play very well with one another. This notion may have been perpetuated by the crude technology and engineering of turbocharging by auto manufacturers in the late-70's through the early-80's. They seemed to have had reliability issues and disappointing performance despite all of the advertising hype. Your videos have changed my perspective. I'm sure many other of your subscribers have felt the same way.It seems to me, that basically the Draw-Through arrangement is not all that different than bolting a carb(s) on to of a "traditional" Roots style crank-driven super charger for a similar effect of increasing the PSI of air/fuel mixture into the manifold plenum. The Draw Through configuration seems to me to be a great entry-level experience into the world of Turbocharging. Because of this new-found information that you graciously offered, I am seriously considering "dipping my toe" into creating my forced induction fabrication projectA couple quick questions. How much should someone expect to pay for a used '80-'81 301 Turbo Firebird carburetor (or other GM turbo) 4 bbl. mounting plenum that allows the air/fuel mixture into the turbo inlet? Also, does the carb necessarily have to be above, or at least level height with the intake manifold? The reason I ask is because I might have some vertical space considerations to deal with in terms of clearance issues. My hope is that the draw from the turbocharger would basically force (suck) the air/fuel mixture into the housing without having to be concerned with using gravity for the mixture of a carbureted, natural aspirated configuration. Thanks in advance and keep the great videos coming.
+WasntMeOfficer I was lucky on ebay, I purchased the draw through carb mounting plenum for around $50, its pretty much hit and miss on ebay. Saw other auctions for the whole carb, plenum and turbo combination for around $800.00 on ebay auctions. Wrecking yards would also be a good source since many do not know of all the draw through turbo cars made from 78-83 until fuel injection was the way the manufacturers went with turbocharging. I recently purchased the first generation turbo buick which is a draw through 4 bbl. carbureted 3.8 turbo V6 which started the evolution towards the famous Buick Grand nationals that hit the scene and made turbocharging ever so popular today. In my area Fallon, Nevada, I also spotted a 1980 Pontiac turbo trans am which had the draw though 4bbl. carbureted turbocharged 301 ci V8, the first of its kind from the factory. He didn't have a for sale sign on it however, have seen it for sale on the internet.
so glad I found this. it is giving me ideas for my little Toyota 4ac. gonna show people that with time and knowledge you can get performance without having to drop in a more "popular" engine.
Best video on this subject!!! Thx
thank you so much for explaining this! couldnt find much info anywhere else online.
JESUS THIS VIDEO TAUGHT ME EVERYTHING I NEED TO KNOW ABOUT TURBO-ING MY 83 GTI. Thanks! haha I always thought it was very complicated because I didn't know this was possible, I only knew about blow through. SUBSCRIBED!
Chris B. Outstanding, always glad to put out ideas for the car enthusiast. Thank you for watching.
this video sort of reminds me of my dad teaching me something about cars. thanks, dude!
VERY cool! And I thought I knew everything. LOL I know those Buick's were capable of being real fast! Keep the info coming.
I am enjoying the vids very much!
Back in the 80's I had a 76 chevelle SS that I did this setup on. A company made a kit that had the turbo, carb intake and adaptor to bolt on top of the intake manifold. The carb wound up where the battery was so I relocated it to the other side.
The only tricky part was the exhaust. I recall having to pipe the left side headers over to the right side and Y them together and then into the turbo that sat on the right side behind the carb with a single exhaust pipe coming out of the turbo..
The advantage with Draw through systems is you dont have to mess with the jetting or anything really. Since it's pulling the gas with the air it just pulls more of both in proportion so the mixture can basically stay the same... With forced systems you you have to increase fuel flow to keep up with the air your pushing in there. So these systems can be installed in an afternoon without any tuning other than retarding the timing a bit to prevent detonation.
Of course with so many cars being fuel injected now and ECUs thjngs are complicated, but if you get your hands on a carburated car these things are fun.
That chevelle was a total sleeper and was so quite since I just had the one pipe into just a bigger stock muffler. So fun smoking all those big cam loud Street rods back in the day. They would take me off the line but the look on their faces when I quietly passed them was priceless.
almost the same as the banks aftermarket turbo on a 7.3 idi diesel. thanks for describing it so well!
You are a genius !
This is soo amazing! Helped out a lot as it is very hard to source parts the country I live in. Thanks a a lot!!!
Excellent Explanation
Doesn't it take a special turbo with seals that are gas resistant? Or can any turbo be used for draw thru setup?
Great explanation. Now we just need a video for nitrous on a carbed setup
Yesss
It's like Rickey Bobby I don't know what to do with my hands. I like your videos man.
Nice table. I need to make one of those.
Nothing wrong with draw through setups people. Indy Cars were doing over 200 miles per hour in the 60s into the 70s with it. At one point there was so much debate over draw VS blow, that even A.J. Foyt used upstream and downstream fuel injection in his FOYT engines, and was one of the fastest out there. I had a 'new 79 4cyl Turbo Mustang Pace Car, that I tuned and tweaked with 22lbs of boost, ethanol through the top of my carb, for extra charge cooling, and I smoked almost everything on the freeway from Berdoo to Long Beach. I could run with a Carrera until I ran out of gears, I only had a 4 speed BUTTTT it would get me to 151.... according to the CHP ;) .
its old technology is the problem
My dad had a 400 horse full forged 2.3 turbo in a merkur when i was younger used to take it down for track days and race against the turbo carreras he could run them down on the straights but wasnt as fast coming out of the turns but if he held his line he could really run with them
Thank you, I would love to try this idea on my 89 22R
Imagine this will work with a homemade supercharger right?
Thank you so much for making this video you explained it so well thank you!
Wow thanks. I have an 8.1 vortec and a 750 carb. Going to try it
Thanks for the explanation. Although I do not exactly know how a blow through turbocharger works. As I would like to use a M122 roots style supercharger that is blown into a turbocharger on an LS engine. I just have not figured out how to route everything correctly.
Thanks!. Not a bad rundown.Remember some exhaust manifolds (factory made) had provision for external wastegate ...as in the Mitsubishi sigma turbo (Australia) 1981!.
+John Caton They all have either an internal wastegate built on the turbo charger or an external wastegate built on the turbo header or exhaust manifold. If not, the turbo would overspeed and cause engine or turbo damage or both.
Very good!
Thank you for the good explanation and prop setup, I plan on fabricating something like that for my bbf soon
How do you adjust/set up the carburetor for a setup like this?
Excellent stuff, thanks! Very cool, really useful. thanks
Try to onderstand it on english, but i must onderstend how it work. I like it.👍
Very smart
you did a really good job...thanks
So with a draw through set up do you need to pressurize the fuel bowl?
ty well done
Awesome! Excellent information, Thanks man.
good to know stuff here. former fc2 (disabled here). draw through are good when you live in a warmer climate. i have one in storage for the buick 3.8 and 2 grand national turbo setups (i am thinking about putting one on each bank of my 429 BBF). if you look at the draw through setups, when the air is drawn through the carb, it gets REALLY cold and condenses. if you watch a car running, youll see the intake sweating before the turbo. one doesnt want to use a mechanical carb either. vacuum 2nd is best because youll want a large carb to feed the turbo but bigger will kill power while not spooling...
what i want to do is take the draw through setup and run propane through it. that way, you would have the 9:1 or so and still have low end torque, but not knock and ping at higher rpm due to octane of propane. should be able to turn the boost up higher with propane for that reason.
can you shed any light?
The challenge of propane would be the challenge of how to inject it into the carburetor. It's a good idea, however you would almost have to inject it directly into your manifold, and experiment when to inject it. You would have to have a system that injected it at specific times, similar to a nitrous kit. I highly recommend if you can get 100+ Octane fuel, I would stick with that, because it's more consistent and manageable than propane would be. We run 100LL (Low Lead) AV Gas, which is available at our local airport.
they have a carb hat to mix the propane. fits on the air filter ring. remove the jets and seal a few things in the carb and yer golden. once adjusted, its passing fuel/air like normal air. seems easier this way..i just havent played with it.
I ran propane for many year they have an assembly called a mixer . It served the same function as a carb but no float. You adjust the
Mixer turn dial for rich or lean no heating required. A heater is required which warms the Propane as it evaporated and requlates the pressure to the mixer. O
The heater is just a pressure regulatory with heater hoses lines from the engine to warm the vapor. Propane runs from 100 octane to 115 far superior to gasoline. Easy to install. Propane lives to run at ,12.5 to one compression ratio. Propane Enters the mixer intake and engine as a gas no droplet or pudding.
The mixer does not need a Ventura to function. Propane having higher octane than gas can be run lean at high compression with more ignition advance than gas. Because the propane is always vapor at mixer presure unlike gas it will not wash down cylinders. Propane Will resist knocking very well and burns 100% of the fuel very clean powerful and can achieve good fuel economy if you use high compression and lean mix propane does not need a choak or high Idle when cold starting because it is already vaporized it will start soon as you bump the engine even at 40 below zero.
Super helpful video! Thumbs up
Sweet z's man!
Ian Couch thank you, z cars have lots of potential.
great info dude, i never knew there is 2 types of carb boosting. Draw-through being the simplest, am i right to say that blow through setup is more efficient and safe for turbo itself? tq
Blow through is more efficient due to being able to install an intercooler.
Do you have to mess with getting or da Tory car set ups work ?
I've got a 83 F150,I'm gonna do something very similar!
But I have a question..Do you need to get bigger Jets, float bowl and Higher pressure Fuel pump to supply the engine with the Needed fuel the engine is now Requiring?
" Will you need to alter the carb to supply enough fuel?"
Amazing video. You explained everything so easily.
I drive carb engine cars (not American, just small Japan cars) all my driving life and always was thinking about put turbo (or compressor) on them. But in my country modified carbs are lost art :) But this video gave me so thoughts and maybe...
Badtz Maru I am a believer in keeping the great arts going, happy boosting.
I can fabricate/modify ANYTHING you guys need to make your dream projects come to life.. Message me.
Budget Boosting years ago HKS made a twin TD06 turbocharged set up blowing through triple Mikuni side draft carburators for the L28. Awesome combination and set up, hard to find but one of a kind. Can be found in Yahoo Auctions Japan sometimes. Would be nice to see those set ups for sale internationally again. I'm sure there would be lots of z fans that would order them.
TREY CARVALHO
@url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=HJHd_CG6RFKlhM&tbnid=JgIV2dHo7goNOM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zdriver.com%2Fforum%2F280zx-s130-forums-77%2Fcarb-conversion-23075%2F&ei=_yr6U4nCEoytogSYpYKAAg&bvm=bv.73612305,d.cGE&psig=AFQjCNGVmbQFxyxdJt1oodDDuhF0oRt4ow&ust=1408990327158331 This is a kit Jim Cook racing sold several years ago to fit 1970 through 1983 Nissan/Datsun Z cars. This kit was around $3500 back then and it was complete with turbocharger, custom turbo header, wastegate, air cleaner intercooler, triple weber side draft carburators with custom surge tank to feed boost to those carbs. This was a very powerful combination for the old z cars and would make a fortune if someone would start fabricating and selling these complete kits again. Food for thought.
In the late 80's (87?)GM used a preheater under the carb on the s-10 4 cyl engines, it vaporized the fuel before it got into the engine, increased gas mileage by a ton when it was on all the time, so they incorporated a heat sensor to make it run intermittently, the deisel engines in most new pickups use an electric heater on the incoming air, any thoughts on this instead of using methanol to stop freeze ups?
Yeah they call it carborator heat in airplanes and pre throttle body carb cars.
I don’t know if you’ll get to this but would u need to run a bigger carb then stock to account for the increased airflow?
Ok so I control pressure with a blow off valve and a waste gate?or is not needed?
now do a video on twin turbo 460 set up in a foxbody please
Corvairs were turbocharged before '65. My friend had a 62 turbo Corvair Monza Sypder.
James Krys Outstanding, Sometimes I may be off a year or so, 65 was in my head at the time.... The point is, draw through has been around a long time and can be quite successful if done correctly. Thanks for watching.
Great video keep up
It has the risk of fuel air mixture get ignited in the turbine or before get into cyllinder, hasn'tbit?
And it will be difficult to startup the engine, the fuel-air mixture has long way to get into cyllinder, wouldn't it?
Highly unlikely. Your compressor must be running way too hot for this to happen. If it's running that hot, then you have bigger problems. Starting the engine wouldn't be a problem. Enough fuel and air and it goes boom in the cylinders. The question is, how do you control fuel flow for a normal idle
I have this setup on my Datsun 240z with 2" su carburettor but it overfuel engine especially if off boost. Any advice please?
I can send pictures or video on massager
mad Matt seems like a nice guy
Not sure if anybody has the time to answer this question but im curious; has anybody added a turbo on a 20R toyota engine?
Im currently rebuilding my 1980 toyota truck 20R engine ,and was thinking about adding a turbo to help with towing a micro-camper.
Thanks
Do you need a special turbo? Like will the turbo need special seals to deal with the vacuum caused when you let off the throttle? I’m asking because I never turbocharged a motor but I assume if it I get a turbo that was intended for fuel injection the turbo would not be built to see vacuum on the input side. Thanks
I guess another thing to ask about would be distributor timing. How will a stock distributor react to boost instead of vacuum when you put a load on the engine? I’ve got a 403 olds that is stock and would like to try this possibly. Thanks again.
Question, Does the distance between the carb and the intake of the turbo matters as well as the distance between the turbo and the intake manifold?
Yes, the shorter the better.
So then, getting a modern fuel injected supercharger and adapting a carburetor on the throttle body side is feasible and will work right?
R Sanchez Having a modern supercharged and fuel injected set up would make it much easier to turbocharge. You final product would be supercharger off the line and turbo boost from midrange to redline. In my opinion the best set up you could do. Look up Hennessey performance Ford GT supercharged and turbocharged super car. To do this you run the turbocharger boost to the intercooler and then to the intake of the throttle body leading to the supercharger. Draw through or blow through turbo combinations are for older carbureted cars or cars that you would prefer to convert to carburetor. Thank you for watching and hope this answers your questions.
Hello, first off, great explanation. I wanted to learn the basics of turbocharging with carburated engines. Im thinking about doing a Briggs and Stratton turbo engine for a go kart power build. But I think there are some problems with turbocharging a single cylinder engine with no oil pan. How do I get around that.
How about turbo inter cooler to blow thru carburetor to a root supercharger to manifold to turbo? 🤔 Twin Turbo
Got a good question for you what about a blow off valve how are you going to regulate the pressure when you let off the throttle aren't you going to have a lot of turbo lag
Draw through boost cannot have blow off valve due to fuel and air mixing in compressor. Fuel would blow out blow off valve and have under hood fire
i like the info. curious if you have run the setup on any vehicles yet. im looking to do this on a small motorcycle but curious if fuel heating in the compressor housing is an issue due to the temps the turbo gets up to?
Look to do this to my 85 720 truck z24 motor what carb do you think would work good like 600-700 or like a 300 -400
+bruce turner draw through with a side draft 2 bbl. mikuni would work well too.
@@budgetboosting are you referring to two carbs side by side like the older Nissans twin Mikuni setup? Or a two barrel Mikuni? (My '84 RM250 ran the same carb as my buddies Nissan 4x4 which ran two on a 4banger...it would float.. lol)
Best video I've seen thanks so much
Better watch a few more.
Since the intake side of the turbo would see constant vacuum when not on throttle, how would this effect oil seals and oil consumption?
Awesome video,I have a 87 sentra 5 speed e16i and it desperately needs a boost 69hp factory just will not do I think this would be a great option for it or engine swap,any thoughts?
nice.. good info
Steven Mendoza Thank you for watching.
I am a newbie to turbos and I would like to ask where you can get a intake flange if you don't know how to fabricate your own.
hey man great video
u made it easier for me to understand the concept
i want to know if that will work for a Honda hornet cb600f sport bike in this hot climate we have down here thanks
+komonology I believe it would work great, the hard part is finding the space around the engine for all the components, motorcycle engines are usually in there pretty tight. Let me know how it goes.
+Budget Boosting
hey man ive never turbocharged any engine before
ill try to apply what iv seen here
hope it would work
ill let u know how it went :-)
great vid
Pedro Marques Thank you for watching
I have an Avs2 edelbrock carburetor would I need to change it to blow through or buy a blow through carb ...with only 5 to 10 pounds of boost?
a friend of mine said "If they can make a chevy covair run and drive, anything is possible"
My turbo is a ray Jay . And has no internal gate . Can I run an external gate ? And how would I plumb positive boat pressure to make the gate work ? There would be fuel going through the gate?
Intake manifold pressure line to actuate external waste gate under boost pressure. Wastegate installed just before turbo flange to regulate exhaust which
Hey Matt, I was wondering for a draw through set up whether you have to modify the carb? I know on a blow through you need a double pumper set up but I would like to know if it’s the same thing. Or I can use a double pumper set up on a draw through. Or I don’t have to adjust it at all because the carb is on outside? Thanks.
With draw through jetting for your boost and engine for performance is all you need.
I think U right in one ur other video. Blow thru carb better
Good
1962 was the first year of corvair turbo charged model
Wouldn't it have more lag than a draw through setup? Since it's only drawing with more exhaust pressure, but to get that pressure you would need to send fuel through
if you have a rear-mounted turbo, there might be a massive backfire danger with a long intake tube.
What is the part that adapts to carb-to-turbo-to-manifold called? How much are they and where can I get em?
I have a neat little frankenstien that i'm building. I found a kit i believe is from the mid eighties made by RM. It's for a small block chevy. Really nice manifolds a cross over pipe an Air Research 62mm turbo drawthrough setup. I am mounting it on a vortec L31 5.7 litre 350 through performer rpm intake manifold. However instead of carbed I will be trying to mount a tbi on top as it is going in my 87 chev shortbox. What do you think? should work just as good as a carb if not better no?
+hotshothogger Many great TBI kits out there. I especially like the ones in Summit racing, one of them has a TBI system, standalone electronics rated to manage 21 pounds of boost. That would be my choice.
Cen I as sir what is the size jets of that carburetor sir
For this draw through setup... do you need to change the Cam ( as you would a standard Turbo system), or could I just put in and run with a Non turbo camshaft?
Cam change is not necessary if the cam already has an rpm power range that matches or is very close to the rpm range that your turbo makes power. I choose my camshaft to match the rpm power band to that of turbo as close as possible to ensure they work together. I also do the same to match the intake manifold power band with that of the turbo to pick my cam. When shopping for cams and intake manifolds they usually describe it's working power band for example 1500 to 6500 rpm. My selecting of cams would be the same for draw through as for any other style of boosting forced induction.
Stock cams work best for many turbocharged cars. Upgraded cams affect overlap which makes the time the valves are open to cram "boost" into the cylinder less or never completely closed at the same time to make a positive pressure in the cylinder. Im not good at explaining things but trust me. Your stock cam is turbo friendly.
Finally found you! Thanks pal! Subscribed, added to my Favorites, Shared and everything else! Now can you tell me about the blow off system? Does it need one? Thanks!
on a drawthrough system you do not use a blow off valve. if you did it would release air with gas in it.
Oh! Yeah. You´re totally right! Never thought about it! Thank you!! Cheers!
That is correct, no blow off valve.
Excellent video. I have a willys jeep with F-134 Hurricane engine. I am inspired to turbo charge it after seeing your video :)
Will there be any icing issues in the carburetor? If so how can it be addressed?
Can i run the turbo with LPG with the same set up? I also have an LPG conversion kit installed in my jeep.
Ato Lkr Startup will be fun in extreme cold conditions however since the carburetor is in the engine bay, the engine will warm it up after some time idling. Its not too bad with electric choke. The 1978 through 1983 Turbo Buicks and 1980 and 81 Pontiac Trans Am turbo had draw through carb setups from the factory and they did start quite well. There was also a heat riser from the factory from the exhaust manifold leading to the air cleaner to warm things up even more upon startup.
Will this work on a diesel?
Seems to be more complicated cause you need to fab a fixture for the carb and the intake.
any tips or recommendations for doing a 22r Toyota truck? this seams to be a cheap way for me to boost mine I'm boosting on a budget and looking for mild performance as its a show truck and alot of sound
Is there any problem between the gasoline and the heat made by the turbo? if the gasoline and aire mixure that goes from the carb into the compressor get overheat... could i explote?
+Diego Padilla This system was successful in the 1978 through 1983 Buick regal turbo V6 engines as well as the 1980 and 1981 Pontiac Trans Am turbo engines. The importance being just the right amount of fuel not too much where fuel could pool in the compressor where an intake backfire could light it up.
Thinking of doing this to my '86 Toyota 4*4 pickup. Thoughts?
Can you run a setup like this without a blow-off/dump/recirculation valve?
I would imagine that would cause some fueling issues but I am not certain.
You don't need any of that. There's no pressure in the intake when the carb is closed (off throttle) and without exhaust gases the turbo doesn't spool up either. When you're off the throttle, you simply have no residual boost like you would with a blow through setup or a conventional fuel injected setup.
i saw snow in the beginning of a video. How does the draw-thru-engine starts at cold wheather?!
this draw through setup would be good to run with propane jeep. altitude friendly, cleaner running and runs at any angle. i have a 3.8 i am going to put in. just debating on draw through of my 84 grand national. i want simple that wont keel over if i get the jeep in the water. =)
+rowdy hansen A snorkel would be the way to go too so water would really have to be high to be an issue.
Where did you source the draw through plumbing? From bottom of carb to turbo inlet peice? I cannot find anyone anywhere or I missing the name or something
It needs to be customized to your vehicle and carb. There are a lot of draw through carb set ups sold for turbo charging VW bugs the old ones. They have draw thru piece you can mount carb on and attach to inlet of turbo compressor.ronlummusracing.com/product/holley-four-barrel-carburetor-intake-manifold-3-cast/ ronlummusracing.com/product/holley-four-barrel-carburetor-intake-manifold-3-cast/
For example above