I actually experienced something like this in non-ranked beginner matches at the BBCF Discord Server. We are all "beginners", but you can clearly tell there is a wide array of skill levels from the abilities one has gathered from other games. In my case, I have 5 years of experience playing Smash, so my neutral is somewhat solid but my combo game is non-existent. As a result, I end up _bodying_ complete newcomers, but have gotten my ass handed to me 0-10 against anyone who has a bit of fighting game experience. It is very much a polarizing experience and it has led to multiple ragequit moments in these few weeks. I've found the best solution to be sending friend requests to players who I feel I had close matches with and arranging private 1v1 matches, instead of relying on a nebulous "Beginner Lobby" to hopefully match you appropriately.
Getting bodied is infinitely better than playing against the players you feel you can keep up with. Why? Because every match you play against someone who demolishes you puts one of the big flaws in your game on display for all to see. Obviously that feels like shit, particularly if others are watching, but you're able to go back and see what mistakes you keep making, learn from it, and fix it. Continuously playing against those you're better than will kneecap your ability to improve. Yes, you can effectively practice on them, but you could do that far more effectively in arcade or practice mode (that's what those modes exist for, practice to learn new tech/mechanics, arcade for basic application of those concepts, PVP once you've done both).
Why rage quit? If you are new to the game obviously you are going to lose a lot of matches until you get better. Playing against other people and losing gives you an opportunity to learn and grow. Winning and losing really has nothing to do with it. In the beginning its all just practice, you should treat it as such. Why worry about wins/loss when you are just starting out?
I've got skills from a variety of games ever since I was born, so my strategy in a fighting game is unknown even to myself. It's whatever my mood is, which makes me unpredictable to my friends. I'm good enough at mind games and feints that I can tell when another player is depressed. I always gravitate towards the "freak" characters. My main in Guilty Gear is Faust, but I play literally every character. I learned charge characters playing street fighter 5 too, about a year ago.
@@rw5622 I feell like i can throw my hat into this so i guess here i go TL;DR Losing and learning from getting bodied is fine personally but if you have no fucking clue what just happened then its just annoying ive been a solid fighting game player; im in that delicious sweetspot of "good enough to beat my close friends and my closest local, not good enough to go to hit most tournaments." I play different fights of different genres from traditional and anime fighters to platform fighters, 3d fighters, and even weird shit like Lethal League, Samurai Gunn, or Mario Tennis Aces I pretty much have a "have fun with the journey" kind of person; every time i pick up a new game, especially if its old sauce, i have tons of fun learning the game and seeking others for advice on how to improve. I don't exactly aim for optimization, but I do want to know just enough to be solid at it, before i jsut jump in and drown, but at least have fun with the swim. hell, I play UMvC3 sometimes with not even knowing how to wavedash and I have fun cuz I go "THAT WAS THE HYPEST SHIT I JUST GOT KILLED BY". if it's any context, my main games as of right now are MBAACC, Strive, Samurai Gunn 2 and - mostly cuz a friend convinced me to pick it back up - USF4 That said, I also picked up BlazBlue CentralFiction recently after having not played since the first installment and hearing about the rollback; I played said first installment in my rough hatchling days of fighting games. This was during the days where I LIKED the genre but barely got the nuance (fun fact, my fletchlings of "learning" fighting games was learning basic neutral in Third Strike whenver I was bored in university classes) I saw my old guy Tager, liked the cut of Jubei's jib, and heard good things about Azrael, so I wanted to rotate among the three and see how I feel I play training mode and basically run through all of the cast just to feel it out, did the tutorial, looked up some basic tech on Tager while I dicked around in training mode First online match. Some drill dude in a pink kimono. Amane seemed cool during my training tryouts, so I thought I was gonna have fun with this Jubei match. Was hoping to land my BnB at most but I was expecting to get washed. Run up, I block the thing. Okay. I know it does chip so I need to go forward. Okay I got hi- why is his drill meter so high already- WHAT IS after taht and a few matches against an Izayoi, an Arakune, and a Relius (albeit with that Arakune fight I had a blast because I was going "holy shit what the fuck is happening this is the dumbest shit" - me, a Faust and Bedman main since Xrd), i just closed the game frustrated In every fight I got washed. it's not new; I've even been disrespected and styled upon over in Third Strike, Marvel, and Skullgirls, but something about CentralFiction like, the fun of the losing and learning is being able to figure it out, but the pacing and the sheer Anime™of the game can be quite overwhelming and hard to follow note, I tend to enjoy these moments more with instant rematch and as we all know that happened only a few days ago, but still like, even for those who love getting bodied by cool stuff, it's only fun if you even can understand the exact execution, habits, and mechanics behind it. at a certain skill level and certain game-specific gimmick density, it just becomes hard to try to keep up, and relegating it to "then look it up" isn't that fun. People like me want to learn it by doing, but we can't learn by doing if the lesson is muddy.
Personally, I like how Guilty Gear handled starting out on ranked. However, I feel it could’ve been solved with a simple menu over some big long cutscene. Just say that when you boot up the game for the first time, it gives you some options that equate to “I play this game competitively”, “Yeah I play others FGs/games in this series competitively”, “I’ve played fighting games before”, “I have never played an FG in my life”. Each would equate to the first 4 ranks. That way, you don’t get a huge boost by just selecting the hardest option, but you won’t be crushing every new player either. Also, selecting the top level would automatically skip the tutorial or something. The middle levels could skip stuff like basic movement, such as up being jump. “I’ve never played before” could even give you a quick run through of other modes, such as explaining what training as and it’s purpose, that anybody who’s tried any other game wouldn’t need to know. It makes tailoring the experience to the player very easy, but wouldn’t give notable ranked buffs to the competitive players (there’s still many ranks after 4), and would also cut down on a lot of unnessicary time you could just spend playing with your friends.
the whole point of the tower system was to prevent new players to GENRE as a whole a place where they wont get 360 gangster twerked on by experienced FG players aka the smurfs, gatekeepers, and Douche Canoes getting to pick were you start in the tower for GG with that kind of system completely destroys the whole reason the tower system is what is is. Also alot of people actually play the tutorial for most games as it literally teaches you the game mechanics
Gg strive tutorial is very good and it teaches you the basics to the most advanced tech not only from the game by that are used in many fgs. The tower system is great having 5 wins in order to get to celestial is amazing and a nice way to challenge everyone because no match is free.
@@jiaan100 nah the tower system is actually what made me drop ggs and focus on tekken 7, i dont have time to wait for a player to choose whether or not they wanna face me or they deliberately choose characters like sol, may, or axl just to farm wins to get to celestial. Alot of times these players have terrible neutral. And also the jumping in to connect with a player and sometimes it doesnt go through(note havent played since september so dont know if they fixed this).
The only thing I've learned when playing a ranked matches in a "new" fighting game, is how wide my cheeks can be spread before I start bleeding from my mouth.
I think you're missing something huge here. New players have absolutely no clue what good play looks like. Consider the experience of the absolute noob: You get stomped on by most everything. Low level play (at least in sfv) is typically just going for high risk high reward options. Picking wrong or getting into a slugfest against another legitimate noob can feel like you're being dominated if things all go the other guy's way. This is partly why people scream smurf every time they get fucked up in bronze/silver sfv. It's very common for people to think they do better against a much higher rank player than a low rank player, in part because the high rank player is more likely to sit and wait for the other guy to hang themselves with their own rope. When you're new, some of the most oppressive feeling games will come vs a new player than vs a high level player, regardless of how likely you are to win either.
Absolutely. A low level player in Tekken will get stomped by people spamming launcher into 50% combos. Two of those and you're dead and it feels like the other player is an absolute god when in reality they suck because they're spamming things that are totally punishable. I remember when I was an SF noob (I'm still a noob but when I really didn't know how to play at all). Someone told me "hold back to block." Then I kept holding back and the other guy was just using sweep over and over and I was like "WHAT THIS LOW KICK IS IMPOSSIBLE TO BLOCK." because I didn't know you had to press db to block low. This kind of thing can and will push new players away from the game.
I think the problem with ranked systems is that they serve a contradictory double purpose: as both a system to pair players with other players of roughly equal skill, and as a kind of "score" system that players want to get up. I honestly think it's healthier when games have hidden ranking systems (e.g. dota 2 for its first couple of years) because it eliminates the ego component, removes anxiety and toxicity around winning/losing/ranked, and removes the incentive to manipulate the system since there's nothing to gain. The problem is, every game these days wants to have some kind of "meta progression" system to keep players hooked, and ranking is basically that.
I totally agree, but do that and peolle start yelling "SBMM!" I don't get understand ego. Like, at all. It's just a more transparent matchmaking system.
It's far less a score and much more of a way to see how you stack up as you try to improve. In a game with pointless ranking like Smash Ultimate, yeah they may as well just be arcade scores to measure your virtual dick. In something like Tekken though you have a tangible rank (and stats based on your gameplay) that tell you exactly how you stack up against the competition. Someone stuck in Tekken's blue ranks still has crippling holes in their game, while someone in red ranks has a much more rounded out ability. In Smash 1,000,000 GSP is indistinguishable from 1,000 or 100,000,000 GSP.
Eh, i think the idea of Strive is good but it's fundamentally broken because it's not a ranked queue per se. The tower floors concept is amazing at keeping skill levels separate (minus smurfs) but everything surrounding how you get into a match is... questionable. Every floor is multiple instances so the floors seem emptier than they should (which is bad if they wanna give the impression that there's actual people playing), the fact you can see every player's character BEFORE you even get into the cabin and the fact the game tells you how good they seem to be but nothing about whether they have an ethernet or not is also a big design flaw that encourages people to snipe instead of matchmake with other players. I think the game should not have avatar lobbies in tower and instead should be your typical lab&queue and you should only see the other player's conneciton and region. It's completely fine in the park since it's a more casual environment.
That’s just an issue with lobbies in general (though strives are particularly bad). I don’t know why arcsys insists on lobbies in the first place, I’ve never had a good experience in a lobby system, and I don’t know anyone who has
Tbh I think the reason why Tekken 7 ranked works the way it works is most of the "casual" audience jumps game to game and normally plays the most recent fighting games. Tekken 7 has been out for how many years now? A good portion of the people that play Tekken 7 now are the competitive and devoted players that usually understand some of the weirder obscure mechanics and why they are losing to something (ie. you keep losing to Lucky Chloe's low-mid-low-mid blender because you dont know you need to down jab (sometimes after blocking a hit of the blender)). Fighting games like Tekken 7 also got more characters and became more complicated over time compared to release. Db Fighterz is another example of this by adding the whole "switch after landing special moves" feature they added this season. Guilty Gear is a newer game that has the ability to learn from all its fighting game counterparts and has not yet entered the "more complex" part of its lifespan. The amount of players in Strive also means there are way more people of similar skill level than say an older fighting game based on the principle of it being the hot new game. I think its also really hard amidst all this for developers to design a ranking/match making system that effectively works for everyone AND balance the game. However, I think the ranking/matchmaking systems are trending in the right direction and experimenting with better systems to pair up players, heck the emergence of rollback eases up the player barrier of lag internet issues that could influence player performance in unintended ways. All in all, its not perfect but I thinkwe are moving in a good direction with each generation of fighting games.
@@httohot That's honestly how it should be though, particularly in a game like Tekken where characters are completely different from each other. Just because you can get to TGP with Geese doesn't mean you can be anywhere close with anyone else. Obviously that's quite the cherry picked character there, but it applies to most of the roster. The amount of depth you have to learn with a character to go deep into ranked is such that it doesn't matter how good you are with your main, you can't sustain the same level of play with your secondary or tertiary unless you're a legacy player that knows the characters inside and out.
Gekko idk if you'll see this, but you're underrated, I know this is cliche but I'll start working on a fighting game, it's more on the quirky side and free so I hope that will allow it to have a parallel audience. Your UX video was eye-opening and the archetype videos helped me see the diversity of the genre. Peace.
This happened to me with Injustice 2 which was one of my first fighting games. It was the first time I played the game online outside of the PC beta and my first opponent was Honeybee a top level flash player. I still have only played that game online through parsec to keep the stat that it says he is my rival.
My problem with Tekken 7s rank system in regards(that I learned recently) to unused characters is once you reach Tekken God Prime rank all your unused characters start at...Mighty Ruler. It can make grinding to the Fujin-God ranks miserable because you can be running into an elite player base who are using secondary characters while trying to level up from intermediate to advance player.
Yup, around 50% of the people I play at purple ranks are people with 300,000+ Tekken Prowess, i.e. people at TGP or TTG. Facing these players who are so much better than you is a nightmare, and other times you find a Mighty Ruler Claudio who just does d/b+3, b+4,2 and WR2 and you smoke them, leaving you wondering: "Do I deserve to be at this rank or not?"
@@genzo454 rank goes 1 of 3 ways: I run into blue-god ranks that can react to even generic 12 frame lows shutting down practically everything I do I run into the guy who actually just made it to these ranks and have hard fought sets. You win some you lose some. Or I beat the blue-god ranks who clearly didn't lab his new character enough and I get somewhat undeserved wins.
@@genzo454 it also doesn't make sense when you look at the numbers. When you first hit Mighty Ruler(level 24) all your unused characters start at Savior(level 18). You hit TGP(level 35) your unused characters start at....only Mighty Ruler( level 24)? You should be starting at Fujin rank imo.
I think the assumption here is that while your main is obviously good enough for the top no secondary you randomly pick up will immediately be, so they want you to grind back up and learn the character on the way.
You forgot to mention the most important issue: Wi-Fi warriors. Just because your good at ranked doesn’t make you good at the game. And strategies that work online aren’t always the best offline.
@SNES Nes We've yet to have a fighting game that can give you an offline experience while playing online, and if we expand that to say offline tournament experience it's very possible that will never happen.
Fighting Game Ranked is flawed, but not for the reason the video claims. The video's issue is something that holds for a few days of a new fighter. The reason Ranked is flawed is that many people, despite what they may claim, don't actually *want* to fight equally skilled opponents. If a Ranked system works perfectly, you'll be losing as many fights as you win, and many people just don't enjoy that. They want to win more than they lose, or even to not lose at all. I'm reminded of a conversation I had with a Modern Warfare developer long ago about ranked play. He strongly argued against the idea of implementing a good ranked matching system into CoD, saying it would not only cost the game too many players, but that even the people who argued for the inclusion of such a system wouldn't actually like the results. The first part of his argument was that a sizable chunk of the CoD playerbase didn't play to fight even matches, they played to maintain their 4:1 KDR and/or to get their 25-kill streak chains. The people who wanted to live out their power fantasies would quit the game if they found that door closed to them. The second part of his argument was that the people that hated being on the losing side still sometimes lucked into a power fantasy win (or just take out "better" players with an overpowered Death Streak), which they'd find more enjoyable than every game being a tough-fought 1:1 KDR give-and-take where you were lucky to even get a low Kill Streak reward. And of course people would hate the extra time spent in matchmaking and lower connection quality during games, due to that sizable chunk of the player base quitting, and due to the much more stringent match conditions making it take longer to find applicable opponents and having to match against further worse-connection opponents to do so.
You don't even need to ask a developer to see that. It's why every FPS player screeches about skill-based matchmaking. If they aren't stomping 12-year-olds their opponents are "sweaty", never realizing they're the sweaty ones.
@@colbyboucher6391 True, but it was interesting to hear a company guy make the argument. Of course it isn't just FPS gamers. You see it with fighting games as well. It isn't just the "obvious" bad apples either. Combine that with people who overestimate their own skill, blame everything other than their own skill for failure, and are certain that they deserve more than they legitimately can attain, and you've got a mess that even "perfect" Ranking can struggle to deal with.
This argument doesn't really hold up imo since there's always the lowest end aka players for whom there isn't really anyone to stomp. So they end up just being fodder for other players to stomp, and as nobody likes being stomped they quit, which leads to slightly better players being the fodder, which repeats the cycle. This can be combated if you have a steady stream of new players trying out the game but as soon as they run out it's gonna go downhill.
@@MenaceLendil That doesn't counter anything that has been said. In a "perfect" ranking system, at least one with a healthy enough player base, the lowest end players will be fighting each other to fairly even results. Player skill isn't constant, either. And for a healthy game, new players will show up even as other players (of every skill level) leave. In the CoD dev's argument, those people still sometimes end up on a winning team. That was also the dev justification for the rather hated Death Streak system; getting killed repeatedly without getting any kills of your own gave you some power-up or ability that could get you a "revenge" kill. Even if you lost the war, you had a chance to get a feelgood "revenge" moment. Besides, CoD only had to maintain player interest for a year or two (depending on whether you bought the yearly release or you followed a specific alternating dev group), at which point they wanted the player base to switch to the next release.
I guess it's because rollback was the main priority of must-have features for the past decade or so but it is pretty weird how STILL the process of improvement that games offer players is just, "Jump on into the ocean and see if you can beat random people at swimming. Also here's some combo lists, check those out if you are interested."
rollback has only become a must-have feature after ArcSys got bullied by their fans to put rollback in GGST, fgc devs beforehand were completely fine pushing out a game with shitty delay-based netcode. See DBFZ, GBVS, Tekken 7, and now P4AU2 with Atlus/Sega only “considering” adding the technology to boost their sales by 50% or more. Even the new KOF was abouta drop with delay-based before fans also bullied them into adding rollback, delaying the game a full year+. Lets not act like rollback has been “the main priority” because (jp) devs really do not really give a shit. Other fighting games that have had rollback for a while were niche or locked to shitty platforms, see Skullgirls, BFTG, and KI.
I was just thinking about this, beforehand. The worst experience I've had with a fighting game is grinding in ranked, faceless names that play like bots or gods. Shit like that almost made me lothe dbfz and actually made me lothe smash 4
Killer Instinct Ranked Mode is the best I've seen because: 1. You can self assess and requalify. If you start at a high level and lose well then you can re-assess and do the qualifier matches again. 2. You do lose rank points for a loss, but you don't get demoted. As long as you're paying attention you're likely learning and improving. 3. The ranks can get reset, so they continue to reflect current skill relative to everybody else
@@colbyboucher6391 don't worry, what they mean is they would like to stomp beginners and not lose against people on their level or better. Crying about SBMM or ranked is only an ego thing, and the thing about getting better at things in general (and certainly in FGs) is that you need to be willing to get fucked up to get better.
@@joplin4434 this IS a psychological effect that IS omnipresent lol Yes humans Take loss Not AS Well AS winning but IT IS that way in every aspect of life If you say you dont feel that way you are lying lol
@@colbyboucher6391 It's more that they tie various unlocks to that number, and in almost every single game with a ranking system losses penalize you way more than wins reward you so it's a very unrewarding, overly punitive, tug of war that completionists are nevertheless compelled to suffer through anyway to hit that sweet sweet 100%. I play measurably worse under pressure and would just play casual or ranked without any stupid progression systems tied to it if I could. This is also why I despise King of the Hill modes and anything like them because the penalty for losing is having to wait several minutes for another match which is not fun and just causes me to forget everything I noticed I needed to improve on before I can put it into practice. So of course Netherrealm fighters have a fetish for that mode and keep tying half or more of the online achievements and unlocks into it because fuck me I guess. I especially despise win streak related unlocks, those in particular need to fuck right off because all they do is encourage, nay mandate, smurfing and other scumming tactics rather than actually improving at the game! If one is fighting people of roughly equal skill than 10 in a row win streaks should not be happening naturally in the first place, stop fucking tying achievements and unlocks to that shit it's gross! Rant over, hopefully you understand a bit more why people don't like ranked modes.
🌑 “The world is a cruel and unjust place. There is no harmony in the universe. The only constant is suffering--” [Checks sub feed]: "Omg Gekko Squirrel uploaded!" 🌞
I remember playing Street Fighter 4 casually with a friend, we played The same characters for hours and just had a blast, i was rly enjoying a fighting game for the first time, so i decided to try and play players online, and got bodied hard...and my starter Raiting was just going down and down and i was so discouraged i never played an online Ranked game again for a long time. I had always had a passing interest in fighting games still, and FighterZ got me back for some more...i played this game alot with friends, and i mean months of just exclusive offline matches. I dedicated to learning the game, but it was a local only kinda game, i knew if i tried to play online ranked, i knew the domination would destroy me again. The real dedication came with i decided that losing online is rly the only way to improve and i started my Ranked adventure online...while the Delay netcode is not great at all, i was suprised that i was the one who was winning online...i had to climb like 7 ranks on dbzf before i started to fight players my skill level, so i always maintain that FighterZ has an amazing Ranked system inplace.
Within ANY fighting games, it's gonna have there weak, strong and monster type of players who exist in the FGC . If you have knowledge of the mechanics and fundamentals of set character in a game, you gonna feel the skill difference whoever you fight with. Been playing fighting for years and I can admit I'm a casual and I'm not ashame of it. So, if I run into a player who has more aggressive playstyle then I do, the it's gg for me. That's just how it is. How can casual like me get gud? Practice on my strengths so I can cover for my weaknesses. That's the advice I can give to new players.
In SFV if you want to get better play ranked, lose a match, lab the moves that fucked you up and learn how to counter them, go in again lost again and you get the idea, following this method i got to Platinum nothing amazing but i did it from playing SFV from October 2021 till January 2022
100%, but fighters need replay systems so you can watch the match back to see what happened. It wouldn't even be that hard, just needs to record inputs.
I enjoy ranked matches and almost never play casual, rank is a good thing and provides something beyond saying I got x achievement in a game, especially when it is a fighting game; you want to have some idea of your standing or skill, competition is the point. That being said it isn't without its issues depending on which game you are playing. Personally I hate Strive's system because you can pick and choose your opponents based on character matchups and select solely on the strengths of your main. I play Axl and am constantly challenged by Chip, May, Millia, Giovana, but rarely if ever get challenged by Goldlewis or Potemkin even after they got buffs from the last patch. I also get ducked when I challenge other players, and I'm usually challenging characters that are harder to win against, but matchups especially at higher ranks in Strive (9, 10, Celestial) should be blind matchups.
Another issue with Tekken ranked, your rank is stored on your computer, locally. No verification whatsoever. That means you could edit it, you can save a copy and restore it (leading to an easy "100 straight wins" if you're obsessed,) and you can choose to go back to pubstomping at any point in time by deleting it. Ranked has two goals: Reward players for improvement and balanced matchmaking. Those two goals must conflict, because over time EVERYONE is getting better, and at different rates. I propose having two separate ranks, one for each. The matchmaking rank (likely some variant of Elo) doesn't even need to be visible. The reward/achievement rank can be what everyone shows off publicly.
2:45 That's how I felt playing skullgirls. I got a combo done with the hunk hat girl with short range attacks, and beating the system with the heavy attacks. (that for some reason are long range and instant) I then get into an online match, not ranked, and meet that one guy with the folding chair, pushed me to the left side of the stage, dragged me across the top side of the screen with a string so long that I die on the right side of the room when we both land. I don't think any other fighting game can do that.
As a Vindicator Yoshimitsu and floor 10 Nago, Neither of those mean shit and playing non-ranked is what made me better, far more than playing "ranked".
Strive is really close to having the best ranked match system in the genre, but, in my opinion, for them to achieve such a thing they need to actually look back at Xrd. Why I say this? Because Xrd has some really good stuff that could be implemented there as well like, for example, the fact that there you are only assigned a rank after you get a couple of matches against REAL PLAYERS (and not the AI) and the simple fact that the rank is separated by character (like in Tekken 7 like you've shown). If they change just those two things that the previous game ACTUALLY DID BETTER I'll be a lot more willing to try ranked in that game. I don't want to lose levels because I got a little rusty with Giovanna after dedicating myself playing Nagoriyuki.
I'd love to get into more fighting game ranked modes but I worry about precisely these flaws. Then again, I'm also the type who always feels they're never ready.
@@cerdi_99 I know this, but convincing myself to act on it is another whole other skillet. >_< I appreciate the motivation from you. Hope to get in there soon.
What if ranked took three factors into determining your placement: -offence, such as combo or punish damage, -defence, such as how much health you retain/how many attacks you block, and -technique, such as how many unique "things" you do in a single match The ranked system would show the mean of all three rankings and could put you up against players with two or three similar rankings (i.e. high offence and technique, but low defence) or maybe it'd just flop lol
I don't really have any major opinions on this video, but I do think this format is a bit touchy feely, and I would've hoped you'd get professional perspective or perhaps a review a research paper on various forms of matchmaking/what contributes to NOT JUST player satisfaction but also game longevity.
Ranked will forever be flawed because the game isn't sentient. It doesn't know who any of the pro players are, so they get mixed in with everyone else and they have to earn their standing over the coming weeks and months by mowing down everyone in their path. The only real method of fixing this is the developers manually controlling the matchmaking system 24/7 to ensure everyone gets a fair match-up, which isn't feasible at all.
The best ranked system I've ever played was overwatch, rank isn't even available until you hit level 25 why this is great is once you reach that level you have some experience with the game you've learned the basic you didn't just log on get destroyed then swore off rank permanently. You probably have also settled on a character by then and with rank being gate kept the sweats are less likely to be messing around in casuals especially when the game is new. It also discourages smurfs they still exist but you'd have to get another account to level 25 so it takes work. I have mixed feelings about character ranks but the way tekken does it is a great start once you reach certain levels it auto updates every other character to a certain rank without that fundamentals alone would give higher level players an advantage regardless of if they pick the character before or not. Overall this is a good view and more people need to address this.
This is more of a general statement, but because I hate everyone and everything feels stupid to me, I don't really play fighting games online anymore. No fighting game really sits comfortably in my mind without an asterisk, and aside from my negative outlook Mortal Kombat II is probably the biggest reason why because it's just a fucking miserable single player experience thanks to how much the AI cheats, and I was never really an arcade rat so I never had experience actually playing fighting games against other people outside of my familial circle. Dissidia is alright, though. The single player is still just a game of finding the AI's holes and abusing them (it's really vulnerable to getting baited, by the way), but I like the simple controls and that I can just run in the diametric opposite direction of the opponent without losing speed.
Might just be me but I really don't like GGS ranked. I got the game at launch and I'll admit I'm really bad I was placed in like Floor 4. And I was doing awfully. So I decided to learn some Combos and actually improve over the course of like 3 weeks (obv balancing time with other stuff I need to do) and then I come back and my floor is always empty the only way I can play games is if I go to a higher floor but then I go to those floors and I get my dick stomped in. And I admit I'm not as good as them. But I have no one to play at my skill level to rank up. So I usually just go to park or fight bots offline. Also no I don't have any friends to play with so. Anyways just my opinion
I started playing +R when I was 11, 2012, fell in love with this chick called Bridget(too bad though), got stomped on by dudes at the local, win rate was lower than 1%. I got my 100th win after 1700 ish matches. Little did I know, the people at the local from where I'm from would later on won some SEA tourney. It was not nice looking, all the matches I had were one sided, and it made me think I had to be the worst player of all the worsts players, also give me a more passive play style because get hit one and 40% health gone. After a long time, until last 2 year actually when +R finally got roll back, I still think that I'm bad at the game, but turn out I'm actually quite decent or at least, I can tell I'm not the worst because I can finally fight against more people. now currently sitting at 40% winrate and almost 5k matches. As long as you are willing to play fighting game like an MMO, or just like playing it, it's fine to just play it casually, only you can tell when you get better, and when you can understand why you lose, the game gets a lot more easier. Give or take, 2 or 3 months from now, if you are still thinking about trying out ranked mode, you can easily reach a new floor. Playing against people better than you actually teach you how to block better too, just with that alone is enough for you to win against most people. Learn to understand the game and react to it is also a good thing(like to understand why it was ok to press a button, not as in, reacting to super fast attack), even if that make your character explode, don't flow chart
I think a good idea for fighting games would be to have some sort of "fighting game ID". Where you can track your ranking across multiple fighting games, giving you credentials/boost to rank every time you start a new fighting game. Of course to get people to actually use it you would offer special skins or something for people who played and kept track of their stats of previous fighting games. This would allow complete 100% newbies would be very likely matched with other ones and people ranging from very casual to pros would have a good chance of being matched with people of equal skill or experience. Obviously, this would never happen because it would need to have companies who make fighting games actually work together for a shared system that would benefit everybody.
not sure on how this would translate over different fg styles tho, im fine playing strive but i completely suck at tekken for example, even though i know 2d basics it doesnt necessarily work on 3d fighters or smash uk
@@satsu3098 As opposed to being bodied randomly by people anyway? Like did you even watch the video this was posted on. For 100% beginners it prevents them from being bodied and quitting. For pro/very strong players it stops from them playing against casual/average players bodying them. In the middle it'll do your best to match around your range, not 100% prevent you from ever getting bodied. It's supposed to feel as though the matches are at least fair. It doesn't replace placement matches or the regular ranking ladder. It's an additional system on top of the games for more accurate seeding when games get released.
@@maxcar7298 I mean it can solve itself by matching games of similar types or give a much lower weighting for games that are much different. Street fighter 5 to 6 is going to be a much stronger weighing then smash to street fighter 6.
I tend to avoid ranked because I had bad experiences on other non fighting games like Hearthstone and League. I prefer the more tension free casual lobies if I find one
i think that SFV ranked system isn't really that bad because no matter of your skill level you'll be thrown into Rookie the first time and go up from there but its crazzy how easy it is to climb up when you're good because of the bonus lp you can get up to Triple the LP when you get to a high streak meaning you'll reach your actual rank pretty fast, while if you're new and not experienced with the ins and outs of the game you get thrown into rookie and you try to climb up and from my experience, i used to get bodied like once every ten matches by a " smurf " someone who is actually not playing on his rank, bottom line is your rank is accurate
Brawlhalla seems to fail at keeping the fights challenging but fair. It's either not challenging, or not fair. You will almost always get someone with more experience, handing your butt to you, or someone you hand their butt to. What matters is that you win, not that you 3-stocked your opponent, pretty much the "handing them their butt" part I talked about a sentence before. In really rare cases, does the system throw someone at you with equal skill, they can either be as good as you, or be specialized in other fields you aren't experienced in, but can beat them where they're inexperienced, too. Except spammers, they are either smurfs in disguise disrespecting you, or noobs that beat the human brain, but can't climb higher than plat 1.
Is there not just a "Pro Player" player made lobby for bigger names to run sets against..? I haven't touched much of the player made lobbies, though, so I am generally unaware of them outside of what I fish up
Honestly don't know how this is still a problem. Every other genre of games just has placements and a secret matchmaking skill number for the causal mode so people don't get bodied in any mode.
Maybe I'm scared maybe I'm just tired of it but I just don't go online and fighting games anymore Tired of getting mad at people,people insulting me, and bad connections
Guilty gear pisses me off with the fact that celestial players can go back to floor 10 so to climb I also have to deal with the shithead celestial players who don't play on celestial.
I heavily disagree that ranked is not a good way to improve. It might take a little longer due to not immediately self reflecting and realizing what needs improving or which mistakes were made. However fighting many different opponents with different styles is in my experience better in the long run than getting accustomed to 1-2 training buddys and only experiencing theyr styles. The only people who may be exempt from this are the top of the top. But we can´t really factor them into this since they usually make out 0.5% or even less of the playerbase. Tekkens ranked system is in my opinion the best one I have seen in a fighting game. Not saying it is perfect, just that it is the least flawed in direct comparison. Strives tower is neat on paper but the execution is horrible. It is way to easy to get to floor 10 which makes it an absolute disaster due to players having only Celestial as theyr next stop even though they have only just begun to understand the mechanics of the game. That includes myself. I am constantly being booted out of my matches because I get a promotion attempt and just get stomped on by those lvl 2000 players. I honestly don´t deserve Celestial but I consistently beat the other players on floor 10.
I like strive's a lot. It protects newer players a lot better than most. But I feel like it falls apart a bit as you go up. I sit on the upper end of floor 10 and I don't play much ranked cause I enjoy the park more but. When I play ranked. Floor 10 is kind of a mess especially at the beginning of each month. I go in and out of celestial trials cause I just fight whosever free and usually fight some god at the game at some point and don't make it through. I've thought about picking my placement matches just cause celestial sounds so nice having access to better players at all times and can try stuff out and experiment without deranking. But it feels wrong. So then I just go back to messing around in the park.
@Colin Cotterell yeah. I also kind of question how good celestial is cause I'll fight a level 2000 player who only mashes and smoke them, then fight someone who's actually really good. I normally just end up playing long set vs good opponents in the park.
@Colin Cotterell Yeah, I don't really have a solution, cuz once you're about celestial. You're realistically better than most fighting game players. Which means there's not that many people to fight against. If you restrict celestial even further. People like hotashi would be sitting in empty lobbies because no one can get to even higher levels. So you kind of have to leave celestial with the better than average to God like players. Honestly though, I think the system the way it is now is probably as good as it can get. I do really enjoy the park and having access to potentially anyone. It's nice having easier matches to practice things or just relax and acknowledge how far I've come. But also have access to people way better than I am and be able to try stuff out, and have them destroy parts of my game so that I can make it better. I remember starting Street fighter 5 and I tried to play in the casual mode while I was bronze. Since it used the same matchmaking system just without affecting your rank, everyone who played casuals at bronze were Smurfs.
The problem with guilty gear strife ranked for me is, that you say it avoids smurfing. They still exist in form of people that switch to a different platform since there is no cross play. So there is a chance that you encounter a lvl 1 player on floor 6 that stomps you into oblivion, discouraging new players from attempting any further. And you will always have smurfs somewhere, some people going on playstation to a second account just to stomp newbies, so they get an easy win after getting bodied on stage 10 or celestial, on their main account.
All PvP-oriented types of content from all genres of videogames are flawed. The flaw being, that they force you to interact with other *shudders* humans. Ew.
2:03 Genius Use of Characters because Neco Arc is Clownish to Fight, Hisui is Good but not so Great, and Sion.....Hell has opened its Gates on you, son.
I think the worst part is peoples desperation to say otherwise. Rank really doesn’t matter that much. Especially in tekken 7 where you can literally just choose not to lose rank ever. But people are so proud of their internet penis size that they blow it off (usually in the douchiest way imaginable) they’ll never accept that this mode literally should just be called “Try hard mode” and we move on from it because it’s not like it really matters, you’re just not playing casually anymore.
I think the idea behind starting at rank 1 is based on real life martial arts. Just because yoy may have previous combat sport experience doesn't mean you get to skip the early belts when you start karate (although this probably depends on your instructor). Everyone has to work their way up from nothing. That doesn't mean it's a good idea for fighting games to do this, but I think it answers the question as to why games do this.
The thing with martial arts though is that it's not a global competitive ranking, it's an abstract measure of experience and competence with the learned material, they denote personal mastery within a tutorial system If a black belt decides to get into real competition, they're not going to jump into the UFC and start fighting famous super heavyweights
Fair fair tho I will say some character are worse at letting the enemy play a game so whene a good player pick them is crazy one sided and boring. But it also quite fun to fight someone better than you it help you learn stuff (if they don't just want to bully you for the fun of it and insteed they pick a character you can actually have a somewhat fight with Kof Kof Vanguard was fun to fight against in DNF dual even if they where good at him. Striker, Konoishi and Dragon knight not so much just felt like you where getting bullied really with like 80% HP combo that you don't know if your suppose to ever get to play the game. Vs Vanguard was really good but you actually had the time to play the game if you where bad vs them you had time to learn new stuff Exemple one of Vanguard move can be block than you can actually do a dash hit with Inquisitor to punish them form useing it. you can also learn how to block stuff Vanguard got a low hit at a range it quite quick but it easy to learn because you see it. Vs a Dragon knight of a Striker or a Konoishi that throw 50 move / sec you just don't see what happening and you don't actually learn what a low and what a high. you can just hope to guess right it fell like. Tho there some thing you can pick up on like whene Dragon knight jump she usually go for a high hit because of her oppressive Jump atk that super fast. But if the player is good they will just grab you any way... so it not really that useful to know. But like vs Vanguard knowing his atk hit low at X range it quite useful his jump spd isn't that high so at that range blocking look is a good idea if he get closer you might get mix up with his jump atk but overall It a useful knowledge. Any way I just think some character make it easier to learn than other. There also the mirror match that help a tone to learn stuff because you can actually analyze what they do differently in the game and see what work. Like how other inquisitor started to use her dash hit and jump dive to get a ultimate after I used it on them a bit. (It not the best tool but it still something useful to learn and throw you read the enemy well.)
I mean, in the first few days of any kind of matchmaking you'll have everyone in the same pool. The best players will get out the quickest. Day 1's are generally a mess for any ranking system. In league of legends system if it's not day 1 that new person is gonna be matched up against average players for the first maybe 5 games, who are absolutely gonna kick his ass. In fighting game systems that beginner starts from the beginning.
Gotta say this video was a bit underwhelming. I thought that you might touch on the fact that most Fighting Games only operate on a best of, or first to 3, and in some games those rounds can be incredibly quick, which means if you want to gain rank the best way if to use cheesey tactics, and not have good fundamentals. Someone hasn't seen a specific strong, but easily countered technique before? Well then time to abuse it and gain some easy Ws because they only have 2 sets to figure it out in, and if they don't cya later! Not to mention how you didn't touch on how incredibly infuriating it can be to get into Celestial if you are Floor 10.5. Let's say you are better than people on Floor 10, but not good enough for the average Celestial player... how do you get in? You have no training partner to level yourself up with. You only get 3/4 games in Celestial against those level of players. You gain not much from playing on Floor 10, except the opportunity to TRY AGAIN. it is incredibly frustrating. Not to mention that when you DO get to Celestial you could play anyone from Diaphone, to a similar Floor 10.5er who managed to just about slide in by the skin of their teeth. It's silly. Not good.
For me, rank also should be separated for each individual character, not shared with everyone, which is one of the reasons i dislike the Street Fighter 5 rank system. Like you said, this makes the process of learning a new character less confortable. Although SF5 casual matchmaking puts you against ranks closer to yours, so points for that.
I quitted Strive after i got to Celestial thanks to one lucky win streak lmao Game's fun and all but most all of my friends play blazblue instead so im left with getting my ass beaten in Celestial despite me probably being a Floor 6 at best in terms of skill
Pour one out for GSP for smash bros. Why even have a ranking system when the rulesets can get so far from what you are looking for in a match that you forgot why you even turned the game on in the first place. God I hate online. Tekken is at least way more integrated with it's rules and matchmaking.
Guilty Gears tower sucks for me because I'm in Australia and there is NO ONE playing in my country which means I can only play the killers in japan with a bad connection. I've been stuck at level 6-7 the whole time I've owned the game cause its either 10 second death at 20 roll back frames or a good connection against a god who just bodies me so why play at all?
Im okay with SFVs online ranked with how it is now. Recently switched to pc with the win streak bonuses I was out of the low ranks really quickly I believe it took about 2 hours to get the account to diamond
I actually experienced something like this in non-ranked beginner matches at the BBCF Discord Server.
We are all "beginners", but you can clearly tell there is a wide array of skill levels from the abilities one has gathered from other games.
In my case, I have 5 years of experience playing Smash, so my neutral is somewhat solid but my combo game is non-existent.
As a result, I end up _bodying_ complete newcomers, but have gotten my ass handed to me 0-10 against anyone who has a bit of fighting game experience.
It is very much a polarizing experience and it has led to multiple ragequit moments in these few weeks.
I've found the best solution to be sending friend requests to players who I feel I had close matches with and arranging private 1v1 matches, instead of relying on a nebulous "Beginner Lobby" to hopefully match you appropriately.
Have you tried getting good?
Getting bodied is infinitely better than playing against the players you feel you can keep up with. Why? Because every match you play against someone who demolishes you puts one of the big flaws in your game on display for all to see. Obviously that feels like shit, particularly if others are watching, but you're able to go back and see what mistakes you keep making, learn from it, and fix it.
Continuously playing against those you're better than will kneecap your ability to improve. Yes, you can effectively practice on them, but you could do that far more effectively in arcade or practice mode (that's what those modes exist for, practice to learn new tech/mechanics, arcade for basic application of those concepts, PVP once you've done both).
Why rage quit? If you are new to the game obviously you are going to lose a lot of matches until you get better. Playing against other people and losing gives you an opportunity to learn and grow. Winning and losing really has nothing to do with it. In the beginning its all just practice, you should treat it as such. Why worry about wins/loss when you are just starting out?
I've got skills from a variety of games ever since I was born, so my strategy in a fighting game is unknown even to myself. It's whatever my mood is, which makes me unpredictable to my friends. I'm good enough at mind games and feints that I can tell when another player is depressed. I always gravitate towards the "freak" characters. My main in Guilty Gear is Faust, but I play literally every character. I learned charge characters playing street fighter 5 too, about a year ago.
@@rw5622 I feell like i can throw my hat into this so i guess here i go
TL;DR Losing and learning from getting bodied is fine personally but if you have no fucking clue what just happened then its just annoying
ive been a solid fighting game player; im in that delicious sweetspot of "good enough to beat my close friends and my closest local, not good enough to go to hit most tournaments." I play different fights of different genres from traditional and anime fighters to platform fighters, 3d fighters, and even weird shit like Lethal League, Samurai Gunn, or Mario Tennis Aces
I pretty much have a "have fun with the journey" kind of person; every time i pick up a new game, especially if its old sauce, i have tons of fun learning the game and seeking others for advice on how to improve. I don't exactly aim for optimization, but I do want to know just enough to be solid at it, before i jsut jump in and drown, but at least have fun with the swim. hell, I play UMvC3 sometimes with not even knowing how to wavedash and I have fun cuz I go "THAT WAS THE HYPEST SHIT I JUST GOT KILLED BY". if it's any context, my main games as of right now are MBAACC, Strive, Samurai Gunn 2 and - mostly cuz a friend convinced me to pick it back up - USF4
That said, I also picked up BlazBlue CentralFiction recently after having not played since the first installment and hearing about the rollback; I played said first installment in my rough hatchling days of fighting games. This was during the days where I LIKED the genre but barely got the nuance (fun fact, my fletchlings of "learning" fighting games was learning basic neutral in Third Strike whenver I was bored in university classes)
I saw my old guy Tager, liked the cut of Jubei's jib, and heard good things about Azrael, so I wanted to rotate among the three and see how I feel
I play training mode and basically run through all of the cast just to feel it out, did the tutorial, looked up some basic tech on Tager while I dicked around in training mode
First online match. Some drill dude in a pink kimono. Amane seemed cool during my training tryouts, so I thought I was gonna have fun with this Jubei match. Was hoping to land my BnB at most but I was expecting to get washed.
Run up, I block the thing. Okay. I know it does chip so I need to go forward. Okay I got hi- why is his drill meter so high already- WHAT IS
after taht and a few matches against an Izayoi, an Arakune, and a Relius (albeit with that Arakune fight I had a blast because I was going "holy shit what the fuck is happening this is the dumbest shit" - me, a Faust and Bedman main since Xrd), i just closed the game frustrated
In every fight I got washed. it's not new; I've even been disrespected and styled upon over in Third Strike, Marvel, and Skullgirls, but something about CentralFiction like,
the fun of the losing and learning is being able to figure it out, but the pacing and the sheer Anime™of the game can be quite overwhelming and hard to follow
note, I tend to enjoy these moments more with instant rematch and as we all know that happened only a few days ago, but still like, even for those who love getting bodied by cool stuff, it's only fun if you even can understand the exact execution, habits, and mechanics behind it. at a certain skill level and certain game-specific gimmick density, it just becomes hard to try to keep up, and relegating it to "then look it up" isn't that fun. People like me want to learn it by doing, but we can't learn by doing if the lesson is muddy.
“Go find a training partner”
Bold to assume I have the social skills to find one
Personally, I like how Guilty Gear handled starting out on ranked. However, I feel it could’ve been solved with a simple menu over some big long cutscene.
Just say that when you boot up the game for the first time, it gives you some options that equate to “I play this game competitively”, “Yeah I play others FGs/games in this series competitively”, “I’ve played fighting games before”, “I have never played an FG in my life”. Each would equate to the first 4 ranks. That way, you don’t get a huge boost by just selecting the hardest option, but you won’t be crushing every new player either. Also, selecting the top level would automatically skip the tutorial or something. The middle levels could skip stuff like basic movement, such as up being jump. “I’ve never played before” could even give you a quick run through of other modes, such as explaining what training as and it’s purpose, that anybody who’s tried any other game wouldn’t need to know.
It makes tailoring the experience to the player very easy, but wouldn’t give notable ranked buffs to the competitive players (there’s still many ranks after 4), and would also cut down on a lot of unnessicary time you could just spend playing with your friends.
Middle level skips the tutorial, bottom gives you a noob tutorial, top level gives you the good tutorial
the whole point of the tower system was to prevent new players to GENRE as a whole a place where they wont get 360 gangster twerked on by experienced FG players aka the smurfs, gatekeepers, and Douche Canoes getting to pick were you start in the tower for GG with that kind of system completely destroys the whole reason the tower system is what is is. Also alot of people actually play the tutorial for most games as it literally teaches you the game mechanics
As nice as it sounds, people will absolutely pick the "false" answer to clown on newbies.
Gg strive tutorial is very good and it teaches you the basics to the most advanced tech not only from the game by that are used in many fgs.
The tower system is great having 5 wins in order to get to celestial is amazing and a nice way to challenge everyone because no match is free.
@@jiaan100 nah the tower system is actually what made me drop ggs and focus on tekken 7, i dont have time to wait for a player to choose whether or not they wanna face me or they deliberately choose characters like sol, may, or axl just to farm wins to get to celestial. Alot of times these players have terrible neutral. And also the jumping in to connect with a player and sometimes it doesnt go through(note havent played since september so dont know if they fixed this).
The only thing I've learned when playing a ranked matches in a "new" fighting game, is how wide my cheeks can be spread before I start bleeding from my mouth.
I think you're missing something huge here. New players have absolutely no clue what good play looks like. Consider the experience of the absolute noob:
You get stomped on by most everything. Low level play (at least in sfv) is typically just going for high risk high reward options. Picking wrong or getting into a slugfest against another legitimate noob can feel like you're being dominated if things all go the other guy's way. This is partly why people scream smurf every time they get fucked up in bronze/silver sfv. It's very common for people to think they do better against a much higher rank player than a low rank player, in part because the high rank player is more likely to sit and wait for the other guy to hang themselves with their own rope. When you're new, some of the most oppressive feeling games will come vs a new player than vs a high level player, regardless of how likely you are to win either.
@Colin Cotterell or you've seen high level play.
Nah i don’t think this adds up
Absolutely. A low level player in Tekken will get stomped by people spamming launcher into 50% combos. Two of those and you're dead and it feels like the other player is an absolute god when in reality they suck because they're spamming things that are totally punishable. I remember when I was an SF noob (I'm still a noob but when I really didn't know how to play at all). Someone told me "hold back to block." Then I kept holding back and the other guy was just using sweep over and over and I was like "WHAT THIS LOW KICK IS IMPOSSIBLE TO BLOCK." because I didn't know you had to press db to block low. This kind of thing can and will push new players away from the game.
Rankedheads in tournaments are just built different. The level of ignorance and the lack of self preservation is scary
One of the best openers for any video ever, it got me all hyped up 😅
I think the problem with ranked systems is that they serve a contradictory double purpose: as both a system to pair players with other players of roughly equal skill, and as a kind of "score" system that players want to get up. I honestly think it's healthier when games have hidden ranking systems (e.g. dota 2 for its first couple of years) because it eliminates the ego component, removes anxiety and toxicity around winning/losing/ranked, and removes the incentive to manipulate the system since there's nothing to gain. The problem is, every game these days wants to have some kind of "meta progression" system to keep players hooked, and ranking is basically that.
I totally agree, but do that and peolle start yelling "SBMM!"
I don't get understand ego. Like, at all. It's just a more transparent matchmaking system.
It's far less a score and much more of a way to see how you stack up as you try to improve. In a game with pointless ranking like Smash Ultimate, yeah they may as well just be arcade scores to measure your virtual dick. In something like Tekken though you have a tangible rank (and stats based on your gameplay) that tell you exactly how you stack up against the competition. Someone stuck in Tekken's blue ranks still has crippling holes in their game, while someone in red ranks has a much more rounded out ability. In Smash 1,000,000 GSP is indistinguishable from 1,000 or 100,000,000 GSP.
Eh, i think the idea of Strive is good but it's fundamentally broken because it's not a ranked queue per se. The tower floors concept is amazing at keeping skill levels separate (minus smurfs) but everything surrounding how you get into a match is... questionable. Every floor is multiple instances so the floors seem emptier than they should (which is bad if they wanna give the impression that there's actual people playing), the fact you can see every player's character BEFORE you even get into the cabin and the fact the game tells you how good they seem to be but nothing about whether they have an ethernet or not is also a big design flaw that encourages people to snipe instead of matchmake with other players. I think the game should not have avatar lobbies in tower and instead should be your typical lab&queue and you should only see the other player's conneciton and region. It's completely fine in the park since it's a more casual environment.
You can see the person's main? Man, if SFV had that I would never fight against a Dhalsim again in my life
That’s just an issue with lobbies in general (though strives are particularly bad). I don’t know why arcsys insists on lobbies in the first place, I’ve never had a good experience in a lobby system, and I don’t know anyone who has
2:45
i immediately got flash back when woolie vs had this as his first match. they made a whole video of this .
Tbh I think the reason why Tekken 7 ranked works the way it works is most of the "casual" audience jumps game to game and normally plays the most recent fighting games. Tekken 7 has been out for how many years now? A good portion of the people that play Tekken 7 now are the competitive and devoted players that usually understand some of the weirder obscure mechanics and why they are losing to something (ie. you keep losing to Lucky Chloe's low-mid-low-mid blender because you dont know you need to down jab (sometimes after blocking a hit of the blender)). Fighting games like Tekken 7 also got more characters and became more complicated over time compared to release. Db Fighterz is another example of this by adding the whole "switch after landing special moves" feature they added this season. Guilty Gear is a newer game that has the ability to learn from all its fighting game counterparts and has not yet entered the "more complex" part of its lifespan. The amount of players in Strive also means there are way more people of similar skill level than say an older fighting game based on the principle of it being the hot new game. I think its also really hard amidst all this for developers to design a ranking/match making system that effectively works for everyone AND balance the game. However, I think the ranking/matchmaking systems are trending in the right direction and experimenting with better systems to pair up players, heck the emergence of rollback eases up the player barrier of lag internet issues that could influence player performance in unintended ways.
All in all, its not perfect but I thinkwe are moving in a good direction with each generation of fighting games.
I feel like tekken ranked is the worst because there are separate ranks for each character
@@httohot That's honestly how it should be though, particularly in a game like Tekken where characters are completely different from each other. Just because you can get to TGP with Geese doesn't mean you can be anywhere close with anyone else. Obviously that's quite the cherry picked character there, but it applies to most of the roster. The amount of depth you have to learn with a character to go deep into ranked is such that it doesn't matter how good you are with your main, you can't sustain the same level of play with your secondary or tertiary unless you're a legacy player that knows the characters inside and out.
Gekko idk if you'll see this, but you're underrated, I know this is cliche but I'll start working on a fighting game, it's more on the quirky side and free so I hope that will allow it to have a parallel audience.
Your UX video was eye-opening and the archetype videos helped me see the diversity of the genre.
Peace.
This happened to me with Injustice 2 which was one of my first fighting games. It was the first time I played the game online outside of the PC beta and my first opponent was Honeybee a top level flash player. I still have only played that game online through parsec to keep the stat that it says he is my rival.
My problem with Tekken 7s rank system in regards(that I learned recently) to unused characters is once you reach Tekken God Prime rank all your unused characters start at...Mighty Ruler.
It can make grinding to the Fujin-God ranks miserable because you can be running into an elite player base who are using secondary characters while trying to level up from intermediate to advance player.
Yup, around 50% of the people I play at purple ranks are people with 300,000+ Tekken Prowess, i.e. people at TGP or TTG. Facing these players who are so much better than you is a nightmare, and other times you find a Mighty Ruler Claudio who just does d/b+3, b+4,2 and WR2 and you smoke them, leaving you wondering: "Do I deserve to be at this rank or not?"
@@genzo454 rank goes 1 of 3 ways:
I run into blue-god ranks that can react to even generic 12 frame lows shutting down practically everything I do
I run into the guy who actually just made it to these ranks and have hard fought sets. You win some you lose some.
Or I beat the blue-god ranks who clearly didn't lab his new character enough and I get somewhat undeserved wins.
@@genzo454 it also doesn't make sense when you look at the numbers.
When you first hit Mighty Ruler(level 24) all your unused characters start at Savior(level 18).
You hit TGP(level 35) your unused characters start at....only Mighty Ruler( level 24)?
You should be starting at Fujin rank imo.
I think the assumption here is that while your main is obviously good enough for the top no secondary you randomly pick up will immediately be, so they want you to grind back up and learn the character on the way.
OMORI MUSIC POG
MOLDYBAGEL COMMENTING POG
You forgot to mention the most important issue: Wi-Fi warriors. Just because your good at ranked doesn’t make you good at the game. And strategies that work online aren’t always the best offline.
@SNES Nes I suppose it does.
@SNES Nes We've yet to have a fighting game that can give you an offline experience while playing online, and if we expand that to say offline tournament experience it's very possible that will never happen.
Glad that I found your channel bro. Good stuff
ArcSys might sue you for that intro. It sounds so much like one of their intros
Fighting Game Ranked is flawed, but not for the reason the video claims. The video's issue is something that holds for a few days of a new fighter. The reason Ranked is flawed is that many people, despite what they may claim, don't actually *want* to fight equally skilled opponents. If a Ranked system works perfectly, you'll be losing as many fights as you win, and many people just don't enjoy that. They want to win more than they lose, or even to not lose at all.
I'm reminded of a conversation I had with a Modern Warfare developer long ago about ranked play. He strongly argued against the idea of implementing a good ranked matching system into CoD, saying it would not only cost the game too many players, but that even the people who argued for the inclusion of such a system wouldn't actually like the results. The first part of his argument was that a sizable chunk of the CoD playerbase didn't play to fight even matches, they played to maintain their 4:1 KDR and/or to get their 25-kill streak chains. The people who wanted to live out their power fantasies would quit the game if they found that door closed to them. The second part of his argument was that the people that hated being on the losing side still sometimes lucked into a power fantasy win (or just take out "better" players with an overpowered Death Streak), which they'd find more enjoyable than every game being a tough-fought 1:1 KDR give-and-take where you were lucky to even get a low Kill Streak reward. And of course people would hate the extra time spent in matchmaking and lower connection quality during games, due to that sizable chunk of the player base quitting, and due to the much more stringent match conditions making it take longer to find applicable opponents and having to match against further worse-connection opponents to do so.
You don't even need to ask a developer to see that. It's why every FPS player screeches about skill-based matchmaking. If they aren't stomping 12-year-olds their opponents are "sweaty", never realizing they're the sweaty ones.
@@colbyboucher6391 True, but it was interesting to hear a company guy make the argument. Of course it isn't just FPS gamers. You see it with fighting games as well. It isn't just the "obvious" bad apples either. Combine that with people who overestimate their own skill, blame everything other than their own skill for failure, and are certain that they deserve more than they legitimately can attain, and you've got a mess that even "perfect" Ranking can struggle to deal with.
This argument doesn't really hold up imo since there's always the lowest end aka players for whom there isn't really anyone to stomp. So they end up just being fodder for other players to stomp, and as nobody likes being stomped they quit, which leads to slightly better players being the fodder, which repeats the cycle. This can be combated if you have a steady stream of new players trying out the game but as soon as they run out it's gonna go downhill.
@@MenaceLendil That doesn't counter anything that has been said.
In a "perfect" ranking system, at least one with a healthy enough player base, the lowest end players will be fighting each other to fairly even results. Player skill isn't constant, either. And for a healthy game, new players will show up even as other players (of every skill level) leave.
In the CoD dev's argument, those people still sometimes end up on a winning team. That was also the dev justification for the rather hated Death Streak system; getting killed repeatedly without getting any kills of your own gave you some power-up or ability that could get you a "revenge" kill. Even if you lost the war, you had a chance to get a feelgood "revenge" moment. Besides, CoD only had to maintain player interest for a year or two (depending on whether you bought the yearly release or you followed a specific alternating dev group), at which point they wanted the player base to switch to the next release.
I JUST STARTED PLAYING TEKKEN RANKED AND I FELT THE SAME WAY
I guess it's because rollback was the main priority of must-have features for the past decade or so but it is pretty weird how STILL the process of improvement that games offer players is just, "Jump on into the ocean and see if you can beat random people at swimming. Also here's some combo lists, check those out if you are interested."
rollback has only become a must-have feature after ArcSys got bullied by their fans to put rollback in GGST, fgc devs beforehand were completely fine pushing out a game with shitty delay-based netcode.
See DBFZ, GBVS, Tekken 7, and now P4AU2 with Atlus/Sega only “considering” adding the technology to boost their sales by 50% or more. Even the new KOF was abouta drop with delay-based before fans also bullied them into adding rollback, delaying the game a full year+.
Lets not act like rollback has been “the main priority” because (jp) devs really do not really give a shit.
Other fighting games that have had rollback for a while were niche or locked to shitty platforms, see Skullgirls, BFTG, and KI.
I was just thinking about this, beforehand. The worst experience I've had with a fighting game is grinding in ranked, faceless names that play like bots or gods. Shit like that almost made me lothe dbfz and actually made me lothe smash 4
Ayo but why that intro motivate the hell out of me highkey
9:05 "If you want to get better, [insert shameless metafy plug here]"
Kind of unrelated, but arcsys really was like "hey, we made this COMPETITIVE game, let's make the ranked unnecessary awful and different"
bro the celestial is hunter x hunter heavens arena
Killer Instinct Ranked Mode is the best I've seen because:
1. You can self assess and requalify. If you start at a high level and lose well then you can re-assess and do the qualifier matches again.
2. You do lose rank points for a loss, but you don't get demoted. As long as you're paying attention you're likely learning and improving.
3. The ranks can get reset, so they continue to reflect current skill relative to everybody else
Nothing feels as bad as losing your rank up match because of some dude without an ethernet cable.
Ranked in games in general is pretty problematic. People don't actually want to play ranked because of loss aversion.
Loss aversion over a number in a videogame that gets you slightly better matchmaking will never make an ounce of sense to me.
@@colbyboucher6391 don't worry, what they mean is they would like to stomp beginners and not lose against people on their level or better. Crying about SBMM or ranked is only an ego thing, and the thing about getting better at things in general (and certainly in FGs) is that you need to be willing to get fucked up to get better.
@@joplin4434 this IS a psychological effect that IS omnipresent lol
Yes humans Take loss Not AS Well AS winning but IT IS that way in every aspect of life
If you say you dont feel that way you are lying lol
Then go play casuap match...
@@colbyboucher6391 It's more that they tie various unlocks to that number, and in almost every single game with a ranking system losses penalize you way more than wins reward you so it's a very unrewarding, overly punitive, tug of war that completionists are nevertheless compelled to suffer through anyway to hit that sweet sweet 100%. I play measurably worse under pressure and would just play casual or ranked without any stupid progression systems tied to it if I could. This is also why I despise King of the Hill modes and anything like them because the penalty for losing is having to wait several minutes for another match which is not fun and just causes me to forget everything I noticed I needed to improve on before I can put it into practice. So of course Netherrealm fighters have a fetish for that mode and keep tying half or more of the online achievements and unlocks into it because fuck me I guess. I especially despise win streak related unlocks, those in particular need to fuck right off because all they do is encourage, nay mandate, smurfing and other scumming tactics rather than actually improving at the game! If one is fighting people of roughly equal skill than 10 in a row win streaks should not be happening naturally in the first place, stop fucking tying achievements and unlocks to that shit it's gross! Rant over, hopefully you understand a bit more why people don't like ranked modes.
🌑 “The world is a cruel and unjust place. There is no harmony in the universe. The only constant is suffering--”
[Checks sub feed]: "Omg Gekko Squirrel uploaded!" 🌞
I remember playing Street Fighter 4 casually with a friend, we played The same characters for hours and just had a blast, i was rly enjoying a fighting game for the first time, so i decided to try and play players online, and got bodied hard...and my starter Raiting was just going down and down and i was so discouraged i never played an online Ranked game again for a long time.
I had always had a passing interest in fighting games still, and FighterZ got me back for some more...i played this game alot with friends, and i mean months of just exclusive offline matches. I dedicated to learning the game, but it was a local only kinda game, i knew if i tried to play online ranked, i knew the domination would destroy me again.
The real dedication came with i decided that losing online is rly the only way to improve and i started my Ranked adventure online...while the Delay netcode is not great at all, i was suprised that i was the one who was winning online...i had to climb like 7 ranks on dbzf before i started to fight players my skill level, so i always maintain that FighterZ has an amazing Ranked system inplace.
Within ANY fighting games, it's gonna have there weak, strong and monster type of players who exist in the FGC . If you have knowledge of the mechanics and fundamentals of set character in a game, you gonna feel the skill difference whoever you fight with. Been playing fighting for years and I can admit I'm a casual and I'm not ashame of it. So, if I run into a player who has more aggressive playstyle then I do, the it's gg for me. That's just how it is. How can casual like me get gud? Practice on my strengths so I can cover for my weaknesses. That's the advice I can give to new players.
In SFV if you want to get better play ranked, lose a match, lab the moves that fucked you up and learn how to counter them, go in again lost again and you get the idea, following this method i got to Platinum nothing amazing but i did it from playing SFV from October 2021 till January 2022
100%, but fighters need replay systems so you can watch the match back to see what happened. It wouldn't even be that hard, just needs to record inputs.
I enjoy ranked matches and almost never play casual, rank is a good thing and provides something beyond saying I got x achievement in a game, especially when it is a fighting game; you want to have some idea of your standing or skill, competition is the point.
That being said it isn't without its issues depending on which game you are playing.
Personally I hate Strive's system because you can pick and choose your opponents based on character matchups and select solely on the strengths of your main. I play Axl and am constantly challenged by Chip, May, Millia, Giovana, but rarely if ever get challenged by Goldlewis or Potemkin even after they got buffs from the last patch. I also get ducked when I challenge other players, and I'm usually challenging characters that are harder to win against, but matchups especially at higher ranks in Strive (9, 10, Celestial) should be blind matchups.
Actually, if Daigo was my first opponent in a fighting game, I'll be screaming in joy.
Even after I get my butt fierce kicked.
I got hype to OMORI! Love that game! Keep up the good work Gekko, you’ve been putting out some quality stuff.
i am so happy you used the goated fool or a clown ost
HE İS THE ENTİRE CİRCUS(as someone said in that ost's comments)
The opening was SO HYPE
Another issue with Tekken ranked, your rank is stored on your computer, locally. No verification whatsoever. That means you could edit it, you can save a copy and restore it (leading to an easy "100 straight wins" if you're obsessed,) and you can choose to go back to pubstomping at any point in time by deleting it.
Ranked has two goals: Reward players for improvement and balanced matchmaking. Those two goals must conflict, because over time EVERYONE is getting better, and at different rates. I propose having two separate ranks, one for each. The matchmaking rank (likely some variant of Elo) doesn't even need to be visible. The reward/achievement rank can be what everyone shows off publicly.
dude that tough love arena soundtrack hits hard
Thank you for the video gekko.
2:45 That's how I felt playing skullgirls.
I got a combo done with the hunk hat girl with short range attacks, and beating the system with the heavy attacks. (that for some reason are long range and instant)
I then get into an online match, not ranked, and meet that one guy with the folding chair, pushed me to the left side of the stage, dragged me across the top side of the screen with a string so long that I die on the right side of the room when we both land. I don't think any other fighting game can do that.
Everyone I play fighters with tells me I’m insane for this but I like getting completely bodied if we play against each other many times.
As a Vindicator Yoshimitsu and floor 10 Nago,
Neither of those mean shit and playing non-ranked is what made me better, far more than playing "ranked".
ua-cam.com/video/nmd0BePemAA/v-deo.html
I'm an Usurper Yoshi and Floor 10 Sol. we should run that shit
Strive is really close to having the best ranked match system in the genre, but, in my opinion, for them to achieve such a thing they need to actually look back at Xrd.
Why I say this? Because Xrd has some really good stuff that could be implemented there as well like, for example, the fact that there you are only assigned a rank after you get a couple of matches against REAL PLAYERS (and not the AI) and the simple fact that the rank is separated by character (like in Tekken 7 like you've shown). If they change just those two things that the previous game ACTUALLY DID BETTER I'll be a lot more willing to try ranked in that game. I don't want to lose levels because I got a little rusty with Giovanna after dedicating myself playing Nagoriyuki.
Love your vids keep it up man and tbh knowing we're around the same rank makes me feel even more excited to see vids from a perspective like that
I'd love to get into more fighting game ranked modes but I worry about precisely these flaws. Then again, I'm also the type who always feels they're never ready.
if u feel u're not ready jump in anyway, u dont wait to be "buffed enough" to go to the gym, u just go there and train
@@cerdi_99 I know this, but convincing myself to act on it is another whole other skillet. >_< I appreciate the motivation from you. Hope to get in there soon.
What if ranked took three factors into determining your placement:
-offence, such as combo or punish damage,
-defence, such as how much health you retain/how many attacks you block, and
-technique, such as how many unique "things" you do in a single match
The ranked system would show the mean of all three rankings and could put you up against players with two or three similar rankings (i.e. high offence and technique, but low defence)
or maybe it'd just flop lol
I don't really have any major opinions on this video, but I do think this format is a bit touchy feely, and I would've hoped you'd get professional perspective or perhaps a review a research paper on various forms of matchmaking/what contributes to NOT JUST player satisfaction but also game longevity.
This is the quintessential "UA-cam essay that's just a guys half baked thoughts stretched to 10 minutes" funny intro though
Ranked will forever be flawed because the game isn't sentient. It doesn't know who any of the pro players are, so they get mixed in with everyone else and they have to earn their standing over the coming weeks and months by mowing down everyone in their path. The only real method of fixing this is the developers manually controlling the matchmaking system 24/7 to ensure everyone gets a fair match-up, which isn't feasible at all.
The best ranked system I've ever played was overwatch, rank isn't even available until you hit level 25 why this is great is once you reach that level you have some experience with the game you've learned the basic you didn't just log on get destroyed then swore off rank permanently. You probably have also settled on a character by then and with rank being gate kept the sweats are less likely to be messing around in casuals especially when the game is new. It also discourages smurfs they still exist but you'd have to get another account to level 25 so it takes work.
I have mixed feelings about character ranks but the way tekken does it is a great start once you reach certain levels it auto updates every other character to a certain rank without that fundamentals alone would give higher level players an advantage regardless of if they pick the character before or not.
Overall this is a good view and more people need to address this.
I need that intro clipped. It gives me superpowers.
This is more of a general statement, but because I hate everyone and everything feels stupid to me, I don't really play fighting games online anymore. No fighting game really sits comfortably in my mind without an asterisk, and aside from my negative outlook Mortal Kombat II is probably the biggest reason why because it's just a fucking miserable single player experience thanks to how much the AI cheats, and I was never really an arcade rat so I never had experience actually playing fighting games against other people outside of my familial circle.
Dissidia is alright, though. The single player is still just a game of finding the AI's holes and abusing them (it's really vulnerable to getting baited, by the way), but I like the simple controls and that I can just run in the diametric opposite direction of the opponent without losing speed.
Might just be me but I really don't like GGS ranked. I got the game at launch and I'll admit I'm really bad I was placed in like Floor 4. And I was doing awfully.
So I decided to learn some Combos and actually improve over the course of like 3 weeks (obv balancing time with other stuff I need to do) and then I come back and my floor is always empty the only way I can play games is if I go to a higher floor but then I go to those floors and I get my dick stomped in. And I admit I'm not as good as them. But I have no one to play at my skill level to rank up. So I usually just go to park or fight bots offline.
Also no I don't have any friends to play with so. Anyways just my opinion
I started playing +R when I was 11, 2012, fell in love with this chick called Bridget(too bad though), got stomped on by dudes at the local, win rate was lower than 1%. I got my 100th win after 1700 ish matches. Little did I know, the people at the local from where I'm from would later on won some SEA tourney. It was not nice looking, all the matches I had were one sided, and it made me think I had to be the worst player of all the worsts players, also give me a more passive play style because get hit one and 40% health gone.
After a long time, until last 2 year actually when +R finally got roll back, I still think that I'm bad at the game, but turn out I'm actually quite decent or at least, I can tell I'm not the worst because I can finally fight against more people.
now currently sitting at 40% winrate and almost 5k matches. As long as you are willing to play fighting game like an MMO, or just like playing it, it's fine to just play it casually, only you can tell when you get better, and when you can understand why you lose, the game gets a lot more easier. Give or take, 2 or 3 months from now, if you are still thinking about trying out ranked mode, you can easily reach a new floor. Playing against people better than you actually teach you how to block better too, just with that alone is enough for you to win against most people. Learn to understand the game and react to it is also a good thing(like to understand why it was ok to press a button, not as in, reacting to super fast attack), even if that make your character explode, don't flow chart
I think a good idea for fighting games would be to have some sort of "fighting game ID". Where you can track your ranking across multiple fighting games, giving you credentials/boost to rank every time you start a new fighting game.
Of course to get people to actually use it you would offer special skins or something for people who played and kept track of their stats of previous fighting games.
This would allow complete 100% newbies would be very likely matched with other ones and people ranging from very casual to pros would have a good chance of being matched with people of equal skill or experience.
Obviously, this would never happen because it would need to have companies who make fighting games actually work together for a shared system that would benefit everybody.
This idea is ahead of its time. Honestly genius, but you're right it would require collaboration between companies
not sure on how this would translate over different fg styles tho, im fine playing strive but i completely suck at tekken for example, even though i know 2d basics it doesnt necessarily work on 3d fighters or smash uk
So you pick up a new game after gaining competency in several others only to get bodied because you got rank boosted for being good at other games?
@@satsu3098 As opposed to being bodied randomly by people anyway? Like did you even watch the video this was posted on. For 100% beginners it prevents them from being bodied and quitting. For pro/very strong players it stops from them playing against casual/average players bodying them.
In the middle it'll do your best to match around your range, not 100% prevent you from ever getting bodied. It's supposed to feel as though the matches are at least fair.
It doesn't replace placement matches or the regular ranking ladder. It's an additional system on top of the games for more accurate seeding when games get released.
@@maxcar7298 I mean it can solve itself by matching games of similar types or give a much lower weighting for games that are much different. Street fighter 5 to 6 is going to be a much stronger weighing then smash to street fighter 6.
I tend to avoid ranked because I had bad experiences on other non fighting games like Hearthstone and League.
I prefer the more tension free casual lobies if I find one
i think that SFV ranked system isn't really that bad because no matter of your skill level you'll be thrown into Rookie the first time and go up from there but its crazzy how easy it is to climb up when you're good because of the bonus lp you can get up to Triple the LP when you get to a high streak meaning you'll reach your actual rank pretty fast, while if you're new and not experienced with the ins and outs of the game you get thrown into rookie and you try to climb up and from my experience, i used to get bodied like once every ten matches by a " smurf " someone who is actually not playing on his rank, bottom line is your rank is accurate
Really glad you're getting into tekken
Brawlhalla seems to fail at keeping the fights challenging but fair. It's either not challenging, or not fair.
You will almost always get someone with more experience, handing your butt to you, or someone you hand their butt to.
What matters is that you win, not that you 3-stocked your opponent, pretty much the "handing them their butt" part I talked about a sentence before.
In really rare cases, does the system throw someone at you with equal skill, they can either be as good as you, or be specialized in other fields you aren't experienced in, but can beat them where they're inexperienced, too. Except spammers, they are either smurfs in disguise disrespecting you, or noobs that beat the human brain, but can't climb higher than plat 1.
Is there not just a "Pro Player" player made lobby for bigger names to run sets against..? I haven't touched much of the player made lobbies, though, so I am generally unaware of them outside of what I fish up
There's usually discords where all the high level players go to find matches
Now I need social skills to get good at a videogame!? I have to talk to a real person!?I didn't sign up for that!
new gekko videooo
i wish i could find a Training partner
You could try joining a specific games' discord or subreddit, it might seem daunting but the FGC is fueled by helping new people rise
Yo best intro thus far in 2022. God damn 👌🏾🤣
The SFVI part aged well.
Honestly don't know how this is still a problem. Every other genre of games just has placements and a secret matchmaking skill number for the causal mode so people don't get bodied in any mode.
Knuckle buckle
Glad to see you have been playing more Tekken, it's my fighting game of choice.
Maybe I'm scared maybe I'm just tired of it but I just don't go online and fighting games anymore
Tired of getting mad at people,people insulting me, and bad connections
Fighting games are supposed to be fun but online can sometimes take the fun out of it or make it fun in a different way, like a janky way
Guilty gear pisses me off with the fact that celestial players can go back to floor 10 so to climb I also have to deal with the shithead celestial players who don't play on celestial.
Was waiting for someone to say this.
Not sure if it's been pointed out, but Killer Instinct had a placement system. Dunno why other fighters didn't copy that.
Need that opener on a shirt.
I just realized at 8:00 I’m pretty sure that’s me lol
Hey Gekko, you gonna get P4AU when it comes out in March?
I heavily disagree that ranked is not a good way to improve. It might take a little longer due to not immediately self reflecting and realizing what needs improving or which mistakes were made. However fighting many different opponents with different styles is in my experience better in the long run than getting accustomed to 1-2 training buddys and only experiencing theyr styles.
The only people who may be exempt from this are the top of the top. But we can´t really factor them into this since they usually make out 0.5% or even less of the playerbase.
Tekkens ranked system is in my opinion the best one I have seen in a fighting game. Not saying it is perfect, just that it is the least flawed in direct comparison. Strives tower is neat on paper but the execution is horrible. It is way to easy to get to floor 10 which makes it an absolute disaster due to players having only Celestial as theyr next stop even though they have only just begun to understand the mechanics of the game. That includes myself. I am constantly being booted out of my matches because I get a promotion attempt and just get stomped on by those lvl 2000 players. I honestly don´t deserve Celestial but I consistently beat the other players on floor 10.
I like strive's a lot. It protects newer players a lot better than most. But I feel like it falls apart a bit as you go up. I sit on the upper end of floor 10 and I don't play much ranked cause I enjoy the park more but. When I play ranked. Floor 10 is kind of a mess especially at the beginning of each month. I go in and out of celestial trials cause I just fight whosever free and usually fight some god at the game at some point and don't make it through.
I've thought about picking my placement matches just cause celestial sounds so nice having access to better players at all times and can try stuff out and experiment without deranking. But it feels wrong. So then I just go back to messing around in the park.
@Colin Cotterell yeah. I also kind of question how good celestial is cause I'll fight a level 2000 player who only mashes and smoke them, then fight someone who's actually really good. I normally just end up playing long set vs good opponents in the park.
@Colin Cotterell Yeah, I don't really have a solution, cuz once you're about celestial. You're realistically better than most fighting game players. Which means there's not that many people to fight against. If you restrict celestial even further. People like hotashi would be sitting in empty lobbies because no one can get to even higher levels. So you kind of have to leave celestial with the better than average to God like players. Honestly though, I think the system the way it is now is probably as good as it can get. I do really enjoy the park and having access to potentially anyone. It's nice having easier matches to practice things or just relax and acknowledge how far I've come. But also have access to people way better than I am and be able to try stuff out, and have them destroy parts of my game so that I can make it better.
I remember starting Street fighter 5 and I tried to play in the casual mode while I was bronze. Since it used the same matchmaking system just without affecting your rank, everyone who played casuals at bronze were Smurfs.
The problem with guilty gear strife ranked for me is, that you say it avoids smurfing. They still exist in form of people that switch to a different platform since there is no cross play. So there is a chance that you encounter a lvl 1 player on floor 6 that stomps you into oblivion, discouraging new players from attempting any further. And you will always have smurfs somewhere, some people going on playstation to a second account just to stomp newbies, so they get an easy win after getting bodied on stage 10 or celestial, on their main account.
All PvP-oriented types of content from all genres of videogames are flawed. The flaw being, that they force you to interact with other *shudders* humans. Ew.
2:03 Genius Use of Characters because Neco Arc is Clownish to Fight, Hisui is Good but not so Great, and Sion.....Hell has opened its Gates on you, son.
They should make floor level tied to acharacher. Im on floor 9 and if I pick anyone but my main I get bodied and demoted to hell.
I think the worst part is peoples desperation to say otherwise. Rank really doesn’t matter that much. Especially in tekken 7 where you can literally just choose not to lose rank ever. But people are so proud of their internet penis size that they blow it off (usually in the douchiest way imaginable) they’ll never accept that this mode literally should just be called “Try hard mode” and we move on from it because it’s not like it really matters, you’re just not playing casually anymore.
I think the idea behind starting at rank 1 is based on real life martial arts. Just because yoy may have previous combat sport experience doesn't mean you get to skip the early belts when you start karate (although this probably depends on your instructor). Everyone has to work their way up from nothing. That doesn't mean it's a good idea for fighting games to do this, but I think it answers the question as to why games do this.
The thing with martial arts though is that it's not a global competitive ranking, it's an abstract measure of experience and competence with the learned material, they denote personal mastery within a tutorial system
If a black belt decides to get into real competition, they're not going to jump into the UFC and start fighting famous super heavyweights
@@Lazypackmule I agree, which is why I said that isn't a good idea for fighting games to do it
Fair fair tho I will say some character are worse at letting the enemy play a game so whene a good player pick them is crazy one sided and boring. But it also quite fun to fight someone better than you it help you learn stuff (if they don't just want to bully you for the fun of it and insteed they pick a character you can actually have a somewhat fight with Kof Kof Vanguard was fun to fight against in DNF dual even if they where good at him. Striker, Konoishi and Dragon knight not so much just felt like you where getting bullied really with like 80% HP combo that you don't know if your suppose to ever get to play the game.
Vs Vanguard was really good but you actually had the time to play the game if you where bad vs them you had time to learn new stuff Exemple one of Vanguard move can be block than you can actually do a dash hit with Inquisitor to punish them form useing it. you can also learn how to block stuff Vanguard got a low hit at a range it quite quick but it easy to learn because you see it. Vs a Dragon knight of a Striker or a Konoishi that throw 50 move / sec you just don't see what happening and you don't actually learn what a low and what a high. you can just hope to guess right it fell like. Tho there some thing you can pick up on like whene Dragon knight jump she usually go for a high hit because of her oppressive Jump atk that super fast. But if the player is good they will just grab you any way... so it not really that useful to know. But like vs Vanguard knowing his atk hit low at X range it quite useful his jump spd isn't that high so at that range blocking look is a good idea if he get closer you might get mix up with his jump atk but overall It a useful knowledge.
Any way I just think some character make it easier to learn than other.
There also the mirror match that help a tone to learn stuff because you can actually analyze what they do differently in the game and see what work. Like how other inquisitor started to use her dash hit and jump dive to get a ultimate after I used it on them a bit. (It not the best tool but it still something useful to learn and throw you read the enemy well.)
I mean, in the first few days of any kind of matchmaking you'll have everyone in the same pool. The best players will get out the quickest. Day 1's are generally a mess for any ranking system. In league of legends system if it's not day 1 that new person is gonna be matched up against average players for the first maybe 5 games, who are absolutely gonna kick his ass. In fighting game systems that beginner starts from the beginning.
Gotta say this video was a bit underwhelming.
I thought that you might touch on the fact that most Fighting Games only operate on a best of, or first to 3, and in some games those rounds can be incredibly quick, which means if you want to gain rank the best way if to use cheesey tactics, and not have good fundamentals.
Someone hasn't seen a specific strong, but easily countered technique before? Well then time to abuse it and gain some easy Ws because they only have 2 sets to figure it out in, and if they don't cya later!
Not to mention how you didn't touch on how incredibly infuriating it can be to get into Celestial if you are Floor 10.5.
Let's say you are better than people on Floor 10, but not good enough for the average Celestial player... how do you get in?
You have no training partner to level yourself up with. You only get 3/4 games in Celestial against those level of players. You gain not much from playing on Floor 10, except the opportunity to TRY AGAIN.
it is incredibly frustrating.
Not to mention that when you DO get to Celestial you could play anyone from Diaphone, to a similar Floor 10.5er who managed to just about slide in by the skin of their teeth.
It's silly. Not good.
How does one gets over their social anxiety to ask for help, about learning to a fighting game? and who and where do you ask?
I dont know how to overcome anxiety, but if youre on a discord server, someone you might play FGs can help
Or you can comment on YT vids, or DM people
For me, rank also should be separated for each individual character, not shared with everyone, which is one of the reasons i dislike the Street Fighter 5 rank system. Like you said, this makes the process of learning a new character less confortable. Although SF5 casual matchmaking puts you against ranks closer to yours, so points for that.
I've been playing SFV ranked and it's not too bad. I like starting at 0 cause i see the spectrum from beginner players to players at my level.
dude you sound exactly like geeko, is that you my boy?
I love Street Fighter 6
I quitted Strive after i got to Celestial thanks to one lucky win streak lmao
Game's fun and all but most all of my friends play blazblue instead so im left with getting my ass beaten in Celestial despite me probably being a Floor 6 at best in terms of skill
Pour one out for GSP for smash bros. Why even have a ranking system when the rulesets can get so far from what you are looking for in a match that you forgot why you even turned the game on in the first place. God I hate online. Tekken is at least way more integrated with it's rules and matchmaking.
ranked matching
Good video bruv
Guilty Gears tower sucks for me because I'm in Australia and there is NO ONE playing in my country which means I can only play the killers in japan with a bad connection. I've been stuck at level 6-7 the whole time I've owned the game cause its either 10 second death at 20 roll back frames or a good connection against a god who just bodies me so why play at all?
How crazy it is that you said "you're playing sf6" and now we have hot ryu in sf6. Are you capcom?
Good video.
Im okay with SFVs online ranked with how it is now. Recently switched to pc with the win streak bonuses I was out of the low ranks really quickly I believe it took about 2 hours to get the account to diamond