Thats not fair. You set the 1959 with volume at 10 and used a powerbreak. The 2203 you set the volume at 2! There is no power tube distortion in the 2203, you should have set the 2203 at least at 5 or 6, with preamp at 6 or 7, that would be a fair comparisson
Hi, Well the settings used are what I use at Live gigs and with both amps at equal volume levels.. Turning the JCM800 Master volume up any more pretty much makes it too loud for most venues. Reducing the pre-amp gain removes the distortion sound I want. Putting the Powerbrake on the JCM800 defeats the object of having the Master volume amp. if I am using a PB then I prefer to use it with the SLP as I do. The SLP doesn't give me the sound I want unless it is on 10 hence the PB..Horses for courses though and everyone is differnent which is a good thing.
Yes man, in the situation you described playing both amps at the same time live, I would do the same. But in your video you are comparing tones and everyone know that power tube distortion is better than pre amp tube distortion. You are comparing apples to bananas. For the video Porpose of comparing tones I would have set both of them on 10 and used the power break for both. That would be fair.
Thats so true. 2203 sounds like shit with master volume less than 3. After turning master volume to 4 or higher it has one of the best rock tones in the world.
the "comparison" uses two completely different cabs too, so you really can't do any conclusions based on this. straight cabs inherently sound more biting than angled ones
This is the first I've ever heard of Craig McDonald. Either he or Greg Koch should be hired for every demo for any gear moving forward. It's nice when someone can just demo some gear without having to describe the picks, the cables, the pickups, strings, string gauges, microphones, microphone placement, or provide some long drawn out narrative. That was great demo comparing those two amps!
To be fair the 1959spl is run on full blast while jcm800 is run on preamp. It would be aswesome if you demo JCM800 volume on 10 and pre on 2-4 with attenuator.
In my opinion that’s exactly how he should have demo’d these two amps! It’s really not a fair comparison. I have a JCM 800 and that thing rips out killer sustain and tone once you push the power tubes above 8 on the master and the preamp about the same, however you have to use an attenuator or it will rip your face off and blow out the windows in your living room!!!
@@stevestringer1371 i had a JMP Mark 2 100 watt Master Volume model back in 1979. Awesome amp, that thing was beyond incredibly loud at the time, wish i still had it. Dammit
I own 2 JCM 800heads and a JCM800 combo that I love, but I must say the plexi sounds much warmer. And I owned 2 plexi's in the '80's, and sold them. What a dope I am! I should have kept at least one of them.
You're not alone. I made a bonehead move too! I had a 100 watt JMP Mark 2 Master Volume head. And i fucking sold it as well as a 70's Gibson Flying V. Needed the money, wasn't thinking clearly. I still regret to this day!
I've answered this a few times. This is my live set-up and it works for me. Sounds fine to my ears. I've had two Powerbrake attenuators fail at gigs so I prefer to keep them out of the equation. The other issue is that when the attenuator is used trying to boost the amps for solos just doesn't seem to work no matter if the boost is in front of the amp or in the FX loop. So I'm happy with the way I use it. Feel free to do it your way. Rock on.
The thing is Jimmy, this is how I use them. The attenuator tames the volume of the SLP as it's running on 10. I bought the Master Volume JCM800 so that I could get the same volume and similar sound without using an attenuator as I have had two fail at gigs. It works for me but I take your point. Craig
I am assuming that the JCM800's volume was being controlled by the master and as you said the SLP was being attenuated. I know a lot of attenuators compensate for the perceived loss of bass at lower volumes (they boost the bass to make the sound seem more natural at lower volumes). I would like to have heard both run through the attenuator. Thanks for the video.
I rarely get the JCM800 above 2-3 on the Master Volume to be honest but it sounds fine to me. The SLP I have to have on 10 with the attenuator or it just doesn't give me what I want.
Well yes I could but the point was to demonstrate the sound at similar volume levels. if you want to crank the JCM800 then you would probably need an attenuator which kind of defeats the reason for having the Master Volume. You pretty much may as well just use an SLP with an attenuator as I do. I have used the attenuator (a PB100) with the JCM800 but not happy with the sound. Possibly others (e.g. hotplate?) may be better?
Yes you would have to put the power brake on the jcm also but it would be a more accurate comparison and it would be great to see if the 800 could sound more like a plexi.
Well no it defeats the purpose of a comparison if one amp is using 100% of the output tubes while the other is using **** all. If anything you should play both of them at max volume and with the attenuator regardless of whether you like it or not, that way we can judge for ourselves. What we're hearing here is power tube saturation from only one amp, to me the 1959slp sounds way better in this demo and it's entirely because the 2203 is set so low.
Thanks for the kind words. All I was trying to do here was provide some information which might be of use but some people take thing things far too seriously :-) I love both of these amps actually and use them both live. With a speaker attenuator (I use the Marshall Powerbrake) you can have them running flat out in the house at wife pleasing levels. Trying to find some subject matter for next vid based on the equipment I have.
The 1959SLP sounds the best! It'd have even sounded better without the attenuator but they're just too loud to be played on 10. I got a YJM100 and this one's got a built-in attenuator that works great. Doesn't change the tone, even at 0.1 watts! Great demo, Craig!
JCM800 reissues need to have the bright cap removed to thicken up the sound. Otherwise they are too thin and trebly sounding. I love my 2203x so much more now!
Yes. The attenuator I use (Marshall Power Brake) has notched settings. The lowest one gives virtually no sound, the top one is full volume. I usually have it about half way. For a bedroom notch 1 or 2 would be ok. There are other attenuators available.
Hi Charlie Ok, this is a demo of how I use the amps in a Live situation. Many other alternatives so feel free to experiment. Both amps are the same volume at the settings used. I doubt setting the 800 above 2 would be acceptable in most places. Yes you could use a Power Brake with the 800 as well but as I have had two PBs fail during gigs I wanted to avoid using them at all hence I bought the Master volume JCM800. It works for me and I'm pretty happy with both set-ups. Cheers, Craig
Forgive me if Marshalls work differently but if you wanted a good overdriven sound on most amps wouldn’t you dime the Volume control and regulate the overall sound output with the Master?
Hi , thanks for the kind words. Just trying to offer some useful information although some people seem to take this stuff far too seriously.:-) I can't rememberr what the Powerbrake was set to, probably about the mid point 12 o' clock. I was trying to get the same sort of volume from each amp. I think the JCM800 was 10 (preamp) and about 2 on Master. Normally in live situtions I have the Powerbrake on the SLP at about 1 or 2 o'clock. Amp on 10 of course. But the room I was in was a loud room!
To be fair the JCM800 should have been set up with a Marshall powerbrake and the volume on preamp and master cranked... The plexi head doesn't have a master volume thus the reason why he used a speaker attenuated Marshall Powerbrake but in doing so the amp sounds fatter cause the power tubes are pushing The JCM800 sounds thinner because it's not cranked... I have a Marshall 1959 clone with mods...post phase inverter mod ie master volume installed... I also own a 87 JCM800 with mods ie tight bottom & Global which both add fat tight bass to the killer mid crunch 800 is known for... This demo wasn't done fairly but both amps are excellent regardless...Maybe an isolation cab would be another approach then loose the powerbrake those things suck tone...Owned one when I owned 1987x Marshall
I think your comparison would have been a bit more balanced had you dimed the 800 and used the attenuator on it as well. In addition, what type of speakers are in the cabs? I would prefer to hear some greenbacks on both...just a thought?
Yes they are the Marshall std speakers in the 4*12 which I believe are G12T-75 units as you say. Other speakers may well sound slightly better but personally I think they sound fine and I am happy with them.
Both cabs are STD Marshall 1960 4 * 12 . Same speakers. One cab is A (Angled front) and the other B (straight front). Both closse miked so no real difference.Clean chord sequence is from one of my songs "Day to Day" which is a favourite in the Clan's stage set. it's on the album "The Clan - 100% Live" available for download on Itunes etc.
1959 cranked into attenuator, personally, i would take that every time over a master volume amp with an overdrive channel, because it is THE guitar sound that everyone has heard and has been used continuously for years by most guitarists.
I have both and use the Rivera Rock Crusher to tame them. BOTH amps need to be cranked to sound good. Both amps sound the BEST when the cones in the Celestion speakers start dancing around and are about to blow up.
I didn't read all comments so maybe someone pointed it out, but Craig, didn't the JCM's master is on 2 and pre amp on 10 intead of the opposite ? I think Master on 10 would be too freakin loud in this room.
So are you using el 34's in both heads? I have a jcm 900 I modded back to el34's and it sounds to me like Ive got the midrange of the plexi now.....I use a rack parametric and several graphics through my chain as well to help the tone but its like night and day if your using anything OTHER than el34's
Hi, very good demo, I wish everyone would do their demos like this much easier to compare amps this way, by the way your playing is good too another thing that helps to make a good demo. Curious to what setting the marshall attenuator was at as I am about the get the same set up.
I recently purchased a 150h valvestate with 4 12 slant back cab for less than $ 300 and its in decent shape... ?.. Is this a good all around amp for rhythm. guitar. and what mods do you recommend .. Will be used for rock and country as well as some blues. .
Correct. Billy used a mid 80s ('84 or '85) JCM 800. I can't remember which one exactly though. Maybe a 2203. But he took the EL34s out and used KT88s because he liked the extra headroom and the "rounder" sound, apparently. I believe his 800 was also used on Gish. Not sure about Mellon Collie.
I also have the reissue JCM800, and I thought it sounded too bright and thin until my tech removed the bright cap. Thickened up the sound quite a bit. An essential and super easy mod for any reissue JCM800 owner (2203X).
Also, it's important to note that the Duncan Hot Rails used here is a super hot, harsh sounding pick-up, around 16k output. Most vintage PAF type humbuckers are literally half of that output, around 8k. So this hot pick-up is adding quite a bit of gain.
Hi, Glad you enjoyed the demo. My Strat actually has a Seymour Duncan Hot rails humbucker in the bridge position which is the only pickup I use in the demo.
To me the Plexi sounds better. Not very trebly and compressed, warmer than the JCM800 plus it cleans up really nice with the volume backed off. It does need to be cranked, but that's what attenuators are for :D Great demo!
How much would you say those pickups are affecting the tone of these amps? I don't have any experience with hot rails but it sounds like they are adding a little gain to the overall tone.
Am I mistaken or does the JCM 800 sound very crisp and clear whereas the SLP sounds rather muffled and bassy ? The SLP is supposed to sound like that ?
I believe that the overdrive in the output stage of the SLP has deadened the top end and added its own nasty coloration to the sound, the jcm seems to be either set at a lower volume or yielding an output circuit stage with much greater headroom. Good observation!
most 'live bands' have the high treble on around 7 and the normal (the more bassy channel) on maybe 4-6. That will sound much less muffled like it did in the video. In my opinion, Green Day has a great, unchanged plexi sound...
Excellent demo!... very illuminating for those who considering buying 1 or both of these iconic amps. I don't like players (no names mentioned) who play different riffs on different amps, and some don't even play chords at all.
Hi Pete, thanks for the comment. difficult call as to which is my favourite and if I state one here then I will receive a whole load of comments disagreeing probably :-). So in the interests of keeping the comparison fair all I will say is that I do use them both. Craig
Thanks! p.s one last question whats the big difference between the mono and stereo channel does it change the tone a lot? other than stereo being more clearer but anyway lemme know! thanks-Tim
Well from what I have read Jimi used 100W Superleads (also referred to as Plexis) and the SLP is the superlead plexi. All Marshall model number 1959. Randy Rhodes used Superleads hence Marshall producing a RR model (in white) and Eric (Clapton?), not sure why he has been mentioned, swapped from JTM45s to 100W Superleads with Cream. I might be wrong but certainly this is what I understand and many photos seem to back this up.
Any chance u could do a comparison of the superlead and a jmp mastervolume I have one and would love to hear the difference side by side , mine is a 1980 which they say is similar ti a Jcm 800 but I think it sounds more like the superlead , I also use an atttenuater its a ho's atttenuater , I like it a lot thanks
Maybe but as per my previous response - I like (and use) them both,this is what they sound like. Up to you which you prefer. I'm just demonstrating how they sound the way I use them.
Hello, just curious, when the 1959 is cranked all the way up with an attenuator, what kind of sound do you get distortion wise? And what do you think would be the difference between that and an artificial distortion on an amp triggered by a button?
The plexi with the power brake...sounds nice and growly....please do the 800 on ten with the power brake.......for a true comparison......just curiousity.....
Which is the first Marshall head that had a master volume, and what year? I like the sound of the 1959, but it has no master volume, right? Which is the last head made before 1973?
Hey, great video, I appreciate you playing and not going through each control knob like so many demos. I have a question about the JCM 800. I hear that even though it has a master volume it still doesn't totally solve the problem of needing high volume for good distortion and that it sounds thin unless it get turned up pretty loud. However I don't know if I want to fuss with an attenuator. Did you have any trouble with volume or getting tone while gigging or rehearsing with the jcm? Thanks.
Hi, The cabinets are standard Marshall Model - 1960 4*12 cabs. One is the A (Angled) and the other is the B (flat/straight front), other than that both the same and both set to Mono - 16 Ohms. Hope this answers the question, Keep rockin' Craig
Some people clip the treble bleed capacitor on the Bright volume (SLX) and the Master (JCM800) to tame that edge. Good demo, really shows the difference between saturated power tube distortion (SLX) and preamp distortion (800)
Thanks Craig. A very good demo. You can do a lot with each for sure depending on cab/guitar/pickups; You can achieve any tonal archetype through these. This is probably why they are so loved and respected. :)
Thanks a lot for the video!! Just one question: So with the attenuator I can play a Marshall SLP 1959 in my house without getting the neighbors wanting to kill me?
Thanks Joshua, glad to know there is perhaps something good out of getting older haha. I'll keep them coming when I have something worthwhile that may be of use.
The JCM 800 has a bit more treble bite to it, while the Super Lead sounds smoother. If I remember correctly, Eddie Van Halen used a Super Lead for his "Brown Sound". Stock Marshall, plus a Variac transformer and turned the voltage down on the Variac.
Thanks for the vid. To hear these amps as origianally intended, low wattage speakers with their appropriate breakup will be more revealing. Greenbacks and the like will do it. The cabs with the G 75 series speakers are for the high gain amps, not particularly the ones demoed here. Also, a Les Paul is more revealing when not using pedals.
On a SLP 1959 the outer two tubes are biased together and the inner two are together. You should be able to pull the outer most tubes (1 & 4) and make it a 50 watt. That will make it much more reasonable. It should also break up quicker at a lower volume for that sound you're probably looking for.
Cant you just put a master volume on it? Wont that take the place of an attenuator? There are videos of how to put a master volume on a non-master volume amp. Wouldn't that be better than an attenuator? I like the JMP era and JTM-45
Hi Tim, I have never used these cabs in stereo so I can't really answer that one. The stereo setting on the cab effectively splits the speakers in two i.e. turns the cab into two 8 ohm 2*12 cabs. I could use both amps through one cab in this manner for places where I can't physically fit both cabs in but I don't. Not sure this answers the question but as I say I haven't tried it so I don't know. keep rockin' Craig
it's tough to compare when one is fully attenuated.....and listening through computer speakers. I have a 2203 form 1981 and it's not as bright as the one here.
I have a 1977 SLP 1959 model. This is a good example of what it sounds like cranked. Not bad but better tones are possible. I jump the two inputs. I plug the guitar into top left input. I use a 4x12 with greenbacks. The greenbacks definitely tame the high end and make the amp warmer. But you get a little less growl. I have treble and mids dialed in below 9 o'clock...bass around noon volume 1 at 4 and volume two at three. The tone at this point is slightly distorted. On the pedal board is a tube screamer, fulltone OCD and a ModTone hi gainer. I mostly u the hi gainer for distortion. I set the hi tone very low and deep tone at 3/4 with gain less than half. I get a hot rodded AC/DC....classic rock with oomph tone. The key is dialing back hi tone on hi gainer to 0 and adjust up for taste. If hi tone is above 10 o'clock you leave the classic rock tones behind! I only use the tube screamer only as a boost. The hi gainer and tube screamer together gets me a blackmore distorted sound you here on song Burn from the 1974 purple album. I also use the OCD for distortion by itself. I have tone and gain below noon and the volume maxed out. I get a really good ACDC Crunch that would sound great with the song TNT. For me, I like this best. You can also crank it to 10 like on video and tweak and use a tube screamer as a boost to adjust tone. I found good tones this way but this amp is not easy to dial in or manage. Last points, I use a marshall power brake. An attenuator is mandatory short of gigging at Madison Square. The Marshall 1960 cab with Celestion 75s works well also. The tone will be a tad thinner, less warm but you still can nail great classic tones. I personally prefer greenbacks for my head. Don't give up on this head. The tones you dream of are there, hidden, but can be found. HOPE THIS HELPS. ROCK ON!
Ron Huther thank you! i have been on the fence for longer than i care to admit when it comes to choosing a new set up. you have reassured me that my initial chioce was correct.
Well the demo was to show how the amps compare the way I use them which is with a Seymour Duncan hot rails humbucker equipped '78 Strat. Everyone has their own preferences and taste.
I like the SLP as well, but if you do the same with the 800 you will find the sound is amazing ...(EVH, Rhoads, Wolf Hoffmann). The 800 is meant to be cranked as well...running it at lower volumes really doesn't do it justice. This is why I prefer 25 greenbacks in the cab. They break so much easier, but you must be careful not to smoke them with a 100w head. This would cure your need for the PB, just a thought-HC
hes dressed as han solo
And the the sound is hairy like an angry chewie
Han rocked first.
And plays no solos
😄😄😄😄😄
Thats not fair.
You set the 1959 with volume at 10 and used a powerbreak. The 2203 you set the volume at 2! There is no power tube distortion in the 2203, you should have set the 2203 at least at 5 or 6, with preamp at 6 or 7, that would be a fair comparisson
Hi, Well the settings used are what I use at Live gigs and with both amps at equal volume levels.. Turning the JCM800 Master volume up any more pretty much makes it too loud for most venues. Reducing the pre-amp gain removes the distortion sound I want.
Putting the Powerbrake on the JCM800 defeats the object of having the Master volume amp. if I am using a PB then I prefer to use it with the SLP as I do. The SLP doesn't give me the sound I want unless it is on 10 hence the PB..Horses for courses though and everyone is differnent which is a good thing.
Yes man, in the situation you described playing both amps at the same time live, I would do the same. But in your video you are comparing tones and everyone know that power tube distortion is better than pre amp tube distortion. You are comparing apples to bananas. For the video Porpose of comparing tones I would have set both of them on 10 and used the power break for both. That would be fair.
Thats so true. 2203 sounds like shit with master volume less than 3. After turning master volume to 4 or higher it has one of the best rock tones in the world.
the "comparison" uses two completely different cabs too, so you really can't do any conclusions based on this. straight cabs inherently sound more biting than angled ones
@@PEMAMETAL thank
Plexi all the way. Nothing compares!
Dagger 323 except a Vox AC30
@@geraldgopaul2043 A JMP 50 or 100 will blow an AC30 out of the water. And for the record I still love AC30s.
@@geraldgopaul2043 you’re delusional.
This is the first I've ever heard of Craig McDonald. Either he or Greg Koch should be hired for every demo for any gear moving forward. It's nice when someone can just demo some gear without having to describe the picks, the cables, the pickups, strings, string gauges, microphones, microphone placement, or provide some long drawn out narrative. That was great demo comparing those two amps!
...and without endless shredding playing weird chords. This guy just does normal stuff which imho shows off the gear better.
To be fair the 1959spl is run on full blast while jcm800 is run on preamp. It would be aswesome if you demo JCM800 volume on 10 and pre on 2-4 with attenuator.
In my opinion that’s exactly how he should have demo’d these two amps! It’s really not a fair comparison. I have a JCM 800 and that thing rips out killer sustain and tone once you push the power tubes above 8 on the master and the preamp about the same, however you have to use an attenuator or it will rip your face off and blow out the windows in your living room!!!
@@cedave9735 lmaooo rip your face off.. now thats metal!
1959 for me.
I had a 1987 about 20 years ago.What a gutsy amp.Not for the timid.Though you,d need a power soak for the neighbours these day,s.lol
agree
@@stevestringer1371 i had a JMP Mark 2 100 watt Master Volume model back in 1979. Awesome amp, that thing was beyond incredibly loud at the time, wish i still had it. Dammit
I had the 1987 50 watt head and I wish I still had that too.@@rickleblanc8900
The Plexi sounds way, way better. much more organic and classic
I own 2 JCM 800heads and a JCM800 combo that I love, but I must say the plexi sounds much warmer. And I owned 2 plexi's in the '80's, and sold them. What a dope I am! I should have kept at least one of them.
You're not alone. I made a bonehead move too! I had a 100 watt JMP Mark 2 Master Volume head. And i fucking sold it as well as a 70's Gibson Flying V. Needed the money, wasn't thinking clearly. I still regret to this day!
I've answered this a few times. This is my live set-up and it works for me. Sounds fine to my ears. I've had two Powerbrake attenuators fail at gigs so I prefer to keep them out of the equation. The other issue is that when the attenuator is used trying to boost the amps for solos just doesn't seem to work no matter if the boost is in front of the amp or in the FX loop. So I'm happy with the way I use it. Feel free to do it your way. Rock on.
The thing is Jimmy, this is how I use them. The attenuator tames the volume of the SLP as it's running on 10. I bought the Master Volume JCM800 so that I could get the same volume and similar sound without using an attenuator as I have had two fail at gigs.
It works for me but I take your point.
Craig
I am assuming that the JCM800's volume was being controlled by the master and as you said the SLP was being attenuated. I know a lot of attenuators compensate for the perceived loss of bass at lower volumes (they boost the bass to make the sound seem more natural at lower volumes). I would like to have heard both run through the attenuator.
Thanks for the video.
I rarely get the JCM800 above 2-3 on the Master Volume to be honest but it sounds fine to me. The SLP I have to have on 10 with the attenuator or it just doesn't give me what I want.
Could you play the jcm 800 output volume at the same level as the slp. Otherwise we only get to hear the jcm's preamp vs the whole slp amp?
Well yes I could but the point was to demonstrate the sound at similar volume levels. if you want to crank the JCM800 then you would probably need an attenuator which kind of defeats the reason for having the Master Volume. You pretty much may as well just use an SLP with an attenuator as I do.
I have used the attenuator (a PB100) with the JCM800 but not happy with the sound. Possibly others (e.g. hotplate?) may be better?
Yes you would have to put the power brake on the jcm also but it would be a more accurate comparison and it would be great to see if the 800 could sound more like a plexi.
Well no it defeats the purpose of a comparison if one amp is using 100% of the output tubes while the other is using **** all. If anything you should play both of them at max volume and with the attenuator regardless of whether you like it or not, that way we can judge for ourselves. What we're hearing here is power tube saturation from only one amp, to me the 1959slp sounds way better in this demo and it's entirely because the 2203 is set so low.
Thanks for the kind words. All I was trying to do here was provide some information which might be of use but some people take thing things far too seriously :-) I love both of these amps actually and use them both live. With a speaker attenuator (I use the Marshall Powerbrake) you can have them running flat out in the house at wife pleasing levels. Trying to find some subject matter for next vid based on the equipment I have.
The 1959SLP sounds the best! It'd have even sounded better without the attenuator but they're just too loud to be played on 10. I got a YJM100 and this one's got a built-in attenuator that works great. Doesn't change the tone, even at 0.1 watts! Great demo, Craig!
JCM800 reissues need to have the bright cap removed to thicken up the sound. Otherwise they are too thin and trebly sounding. I love my 2203x so much more now!
Man.. having the 59 for a rhythm guitarist, and then the 800 for a lead player would sound kickass.
Yes. The attenuator I use (Marshall Power Brake) has notched settings. The lowest one gives virtually no sound, the top one is full volume. I usually have it about half way. For a bedroom notch 1 or 2 would be ok. There are other attenuators available.
Thanks Craig, great demo. Only problem is... now I want both. They sound amazing and even better in person
I love a JCM-800 but nothing compares to that harmonically rich sound of the 1959. I would love to have either tbh but I’d definitely do some modding.
Hi Charlie
Ok, this is a demo of how I use the amps in a Live situation. Many other alternatives so feel free to experiment.
Both amps are the same volume at the settings used. I doubt setting the 800 above 2 would be acceptable in most places.
Yes you could use a Power Brake with the 800 as well but as I have had two PBs fail during gigs I wanted to avoid using them at all hence I bought the Master volume JCM800.
It works for me and I'm pretty happy with both set-ups.
Cheers,
Craig
The compression of the Plexi is awesome....gives you that long extended power chord sustain.
Forgive me if Marshalls work differently but if you wanted a good overdriven sound on most amps wouldn’t you dime the Volume control and regulate the overall sound output with the Master?
Hi , thanks for the kind words. Just trying to offer some useful information although some people seem to take this stuff far too seriously.:-) I can't rememberr what the Powerbrake was set to, probably about the mid point 12 o' clock. I was trying to get the same sort of volume from each amp. I think the JCM800 was 10 (preamp) and about 2 on Master. Normally in live situtions I have the Powerbrake on the SLP at about 1 or 2 o'clock. Amp on 10 of course. But the room I was in was a loud room!
This is a great demo. I really liked the sound of the plexi. It sounded more full and thick. Thanks for the video
One question, did you have the same settings on both amps? The Super Lead sounds a lot more bassy.
To be fair the JCM800 should have been set up with a Marshall powerbrake and the volume on preamp and master cranked...
The plexi head doesn't have a master volume thus the reason why he used a speaker attenuated Marshall Powerbrake but in doing so the amp sounds fatter cause the power tubes are pushing
The JCM800 sounds thinner because it's not cranked...
I have a Marshall 1959 clone with mods...post phase inverter mod ie master volume installed...
I also own a 87 JCM800 with mods ie tight bottom & Global which both add fat tight bass to the killer mid crunch 800 is known for...
This demo wasn't done fairly but both amps are excellent regardless...Maybe an isolation cab would be another approach then loose the powerbrake those things suck tone...Owned one when I owned 1987x Marshall
I think your comparison would have been a bit more balanced had you dimed the 800 and used the attenuator on it as well. In addition, what type of speakers are in the cabs? I would prefer to hear some greenbacks on both...just a thought?
What cabinets are both AMPs using?
Yes they are the Marshall std speakers in the 4*12 which I believe are G12T-75 units as you say. Other speakers may well sound slightly better but personally I think they sound fine and I am happy with them.
With that Speaker attenuator, would it be possible to bring the sound down to Apartment Bedroom levels? Great demo BTW
Great vid, Are the cabs the same, would have been nice to hear the a jtm too. Hey whats the riff at the end on the clean parts at 5:42?
Both cabs are STD Marshall 1960 4 * 12 . Same speakers. One cab is A (Angled front) and the other B (straight front). Both closse miked so no real difference.Clean chord sequence is from one of my songs "Day to Day" which is a favourite in the Clan's stage set. it's on the album "The Clan - 100% Live" available for download on Itunes etc.
StratGuitarman69
Thanks, great tune.
1959 cranked into attenuator, personally, i would take that every time over a master volume amp with an overdrive channel, because it is THE guitar sound that everyone has heard and has been used continuously for years by most guitarists.
Thanks Chris, appreciate the comment. Hope you found it useful.
I have both and use the Rivera Rock Crusher to tame them. BOTH amps need to be cranked to sound good. Both amps sound the BEST when the cones in the Celestion speakers start dancing around and are about to blow up.
I didn't read all comments so maybe someone pointed it out, but Craig, didn't the JCM's master is on 2 and pre amp on 10 intead of the opposite ? I think Master on 10 would be too freakin loud in this room.
So are you using el 34's in both heads? I have a jcm 900 I modded back to el34's and it sounds to me like Ive got the midrange of the plexi now.....I use a rack parametric and several graphics through my chain as well to help the tone but its like night and day if your using anything OTHER than el34's
Hi, very good demo, I wish everyone would do their demos like this much easier to compare amps this way, by the way your playing is good too another thing that helps to make a good demo. Curious to what setting the marshall attenuator was at as I am about the get the same set up.
I recently purchased a 150h valvestate with 4 12 slant back cab for less than $ 300 and its in decent shape... ?.. Is this a good all around amp for rhythm. guitar. and what mods do you recommend .. Will be used for rock and country as well as some blues. .
Hi StratGuitarman,
both are incredible AMPS !!! Tone Heaven ! But what's your bridge pickup ?
Hey! Aren’t you the guy that made the Kessel run in 12 parsecs?
Correct. Billy used a mid 80s ('84 or '85) JCM 800. I can't remember which one exactly though. Maybe a 2203. But he took the EL34s out and used KT88s because he liked the extra headroom and the "rounder" sound, apparently. I believe his 800 was also used on Gish. Not sure about Mellon Collie.
I also have the reissue JCM800, and I thought it sounded too bright and thin until my tech removed the bright cap. Thickened up the sound quite a bit. An essential and super easy mod for any reissue JCM800 owner (2203X).
Also, it's important to note that the Duncan Hot Rails used here is a super hot, harsh sounding pick-up, around 16k output. Most vintage PAF type humbuckers are literally half of that output, around 8k. So this hot pick-up is adding quite a bit of gain.
hi Craig did you clip the bright caps on your slp??!!
Hi, Glad you enjoyed the demo. My Strat actually has a Seymour Duncan Hot rails humbucker in the bridge position which is the only pickup I use in the demo.
Very nice and useful demo Craig.
What's your personal fav'?
Cheers.
SLP1959 is 'best'. more character.
To me the Plexi sounds better. Not very trebly and compressed, warmer than the JCM800 plus it cleans up really nice with the volume backed off. It does need to be cranked, but that's what attenuators are for :D
Great demo!
How much would you say those pickups are affecting the tone of these amps? I don't have any experience with hot rails but it sounds like they are adding a little gain to the overall tone.
Great demo. PLEASE COULD SOME ONE TELL ME WHAT WAS THE CHORD PROGRESSION PLAYD AT 2.03-2.15. WHERE HAS IT BEEN TAKEN FROM?
Am I mistaken or does the JCM 800 sound very crisp and clear whereas the SLP sounds rather muffled and bassy ? The SLP is supposed to sound like that ?
I believe that the overdrive in the output stage of the SLP has deadened the top end and added its own nasty coloration to the sound, the jcm seems to be either set at a lower volume or yielding an output circuit stage with much greater headroom. Good observation!
most 'live bands' have the high treble on around 7 and the normal (the more bassy channel) on maybe 4-6. That will sound much less muffled like it did in the video. In my opinion, Green Day has a great, unchanged plexi sound...
Excellent demo!... very illuminating for those who considering buying 1 or both of these iconic amps.
I don't like players (no names mentioned) who play different riffs on different amps, and some don't even play chords at all.
Hi Pete,
thanks for the comment.
difficult call as to which is my favourite and if I state one here then I will receive a whole load of comments disagreeing probably :-). So in the interests of keeping the comparison fair all I will say is that I do use them both.
Craig
Thanks! p.s one last question whats the big difference between the mono and stereo channel does it change the tone a lot? other than stereo being more clearer but anyway lemme know! thanks-Tim
Well from what I have read Jimi used 100W Superleads (also referred to as Plexis) and the SLP is the superlead plexi. All Marshall model number 1959. Randy Rhodes used Superleads hence Marshall producing a RR model (in white) and Eric (Clapton?), not sure why he has been mentioned, swapped from JTM45s to 100W Superleads with Cream. I might be wrong but certainly this is what I understand and many photos seem to back this up.
You should do this more often you have a lot knowledge for us younger guitar players
Any chance u could do a comparison of the superlead and a jmp mastervolume I have one and would love to hear the difference side by side , mine is a 1980 which they say is similar ti a Jcm 800 but I think it sounds more like the superlead , I also use an atttenuater its a ho's atttenuater , I like it a lot thanks
Maybe but as per my previous response - I like (and use) them both,this is what they sound like. Up to you which you prefer. I'm just demonstrating how they sound the way I use them.
Do these heads go into standby if the cable is pulled from the input?
Hello, just curious, when the 1959 is cranked all the way up with an attenuator, what kind of sound do you get distortion wise? And what do you think would be the difference between that and an artificial distortion on an amp triggered by a button?
would a 1987 Plexi Reissue sound good with a Marshall Cab with Greenback Speakers??
Yea!
Hi, Thanks for the comments, I just set up my gear and used it like I do live. The Powerbrake was set on about half (12 O'clock) I think.
The plexi with the power brake...sounds nice and growly....please do the 800 on ten with the power brake.......for a true comparison......just curiousity.....
the jcm has that slash tone man i cant stop loving it
Which is the first Marshall head that had a master volume, and what year? I like the sound of the 1959, but it has no master volume, right? Which is the last head made before 1973?
Anyone know anything about this? Well??
How the different cabs position in respect to microphone can make sound difference between the amps ?
Thanks
Great comparison, Thanks. Super Lead is favorite but both classic tone. Liking that hot rails pu .
Was the JCM800 used by Billy Corgan in Siamese Dream? just a quick question.
Hey, great video, I appreciate you playing and not going through each control knob like so many demos.
I have a question about the JCM 800. I hear that even though it has a master volume it still doesn't totally solve the problem of needing high volume for good distortion and that it sounds thin unless it get turned up pretty loud. However I don't know if I want to fuss with an attenuator. Did you have any trouble with volume or getting tone while gigging or rehearsing with the jcm? Thanks.
5:40 please, what song are you playing there ?
Hi,
The cabinets are standard Marshall Model - 1960 4*12 cabs. One is the A (Angled) and the other is the B (flat/straight front), other than that both the same and both set to Mono - 16 Ohms.
Hope this answers the question,
Keep rockin'
Craig
Some people clip the treble bleed capacitor on the Bright volume (SLX) and the Master (JCM800) to tame that edge.
Good demo, really shows the difference between saturated power tube distortion (SLX) and preamp distortion (800)
Thanks Craig. A very good demo. You can do a lot with each for sure depending on cab/guitar/pickups; You can achieve any tonal archetype through these. This is probably why they are so loved and respected. :)
Great comparison. I like both.
Thanks a lot for the video!!
Just one question: So with the attenuator I can play a Marshall SLP 1959 in my house without getting the neighbors wanting to kill me?
Thanks Joshua, glad to know there is perhaps something good out of getting older haha.
I'll keep them coming when I have something worthwhile that may be of use.
I'd like to hear the amp heads played through the exact same cabinet with the same exact microphone without any attenuation.
The Super Lead (1959SLP) sounds like it has more low end where as the JCM has more of a gritty, heavy mid sound. Guitar is a factor here too though.
Is it possible to get a Fender with the same headstock as in this video?
very good comparison demo
The JCM 800 has a bit more treble bite to it, while the Super Lead sounds smoother. If I remember correctly, Eddie Van Halen used a Super Lead for his "Brown Sound". Stock Marshall, plus a Variac transformer and turned the voltage down on the Variac.
I like (and use) them both,this is what they sound like. Up to you which you prefer. I'm just demonstrating how they sound the way I use them.
tuning your guitar makes it sound better!
Thankyou so much, very informative. I didn't realize there was so much difference between the 2. I wonder why Randy Rhoads didn't use the JCM800.
metalfiend124 I'm not too sure. Personally, I think the JCM 800 sounds better and is THE Marshall amplifier
Thanks for the vid. To hear these amps as origianally intended, low wattage speakers with their appropriate breakup will be more revealing. Greenbacks and the like will do it. The cabs with the G 75 series speakers are for the high gain amps, not particularly the ones demoed here. Also, a Les Paul is more revealing when not using pedals.
are marshal slp 1959 is plexi? sorry if it sounds like stupid question im a beginner :D
yes....
Late reply, but anyways SLP = Super Lead Plexi
On a SLP 1959 the outer two tubes are biased together and the inner two are together. You should be able to pull the outer most tubes (1 & 4) and make it a 50 watt. That will make it much more reasonable. It should also break up quicker at a lower volume for that sound you're probably looking for.
Are those standard lead series cabs?
Without any speaker attenuator and all amps up to 10,which one is louder ?
Cant you just put a master volume on it? Wont that take the place of an attenuator? There are videos of how to put a master volume on a non-master volume amp. Wouldn't that be better than an attenuator? I like the JMP era and JTM-45
Hi Tim,
I have never used these cabs in stereo so I can't really answer that one. The stereo setting on the cab effectively splits the speakers in two i.e. turns the cab into two 8 ohm 2*12 cabs. I could use both amps through one cab in this manner for places where I can't physically fit both cabs in but I don't.
Not sure this answers the question but as I say I haven't tried it so I don't know.
keep rockin'
Craig
Does he mention what speakers are in each cab?
celestian g12-75s
how much can you attenuate before you start damaging the output transformer ?
These amps were made to be cranked, you won't blow the transformer under normal circumstances.
jonthorsigmunds oh you do! I owned one for 20yrs great sound but a pain in the arse!
it's tough to compare when one is fully attenuated.....and listening through computer speakers. I have a 2203 form 1981 and it's not as bright as the one here.
Which cabinet/speakers? Thanks
I have a 1977 SLP 1959 model. This is a good example of what it sounds like cranked. Not bad but better tones are possible. I jump the two inputs. I plug the guitar into top left input. I use a 4x12 with greenbacks. The greenbacks definitely tame the high end and make the amp warmer. But you get a little less growl. I have treble and mids dialed in below 9 o'clock...bass around noon volume 1 at 4 and volume two at three. The tone at this point is slightly distorted. On the pedal board is a tube screamer, fulltone OCD and a ModTone hi gainer. I mostly u the hi gainer for distortion. I set the hi tone very low and deep tone at 3/4 with gain less than half. I get a hot rodded AC/DC....classic rock with oomph tone. The key is dialing back hi tone on hi gainer to 0 and adjust up for taste. If hi tone is above 10 o'clock you leave the classic rock tones behind! I only use the tube screamer only as a boost. The hi gainer and tube screamer together gets me a blackmore distorted sound you here on song Burn from the 1974 purple album. I also use the OCD for distortion by itself. I have tone and gain below noon and the volume maxed out. I get a really good ACDC Crunch that would sound great with the song TNT.
For me, I like this best. You can also crank it to 10 like on video and tweak and use a tube screamer as a boost to adjust tone. I found good tones this way but this amp is not easy to dial in or manage.
Last points, I use a marshall power brake. An attenuator is mandatory short of gigging at Madison Square. The Marshall 1960 cab with Celestion 75s works well also. The tone will be a tad thinner, less warm but you still can nail great classic tones. I personally prefer greenbacks for my head. Don't give up on this head. The tones you dream of are there, hidden, but can be found.
HOPE THIS HELPS. ROCK ON!
Ron Huther thank you! i have been on the fence for longer than i care to admit when it comes to choosing a new set up. you have reassured me that my initial chioce was correct.
Well the demo was to show how the amps compare the way I use them which is with a Seymour Duncan hot rails humbucker equipped '78 Strat. Everyone has their own preferences and taste.
what are the settings on the jcm 800 and the 1959slp
I like the SLP as well, but if you do the same with the 800 you will find the sound is amazing ...(EVH, Rhoads, Wolf Hoffmann). The 800 is meant to be cranked as well...running it at lower volumes really doesn't do it justice. This is why I prefer 25 greenbacks in the cab. They break so much easier, but you must be careful not to smoke them with a 100w head. This would cure your need for the PB, just a thought-HC
SHould have the atenuator on boths to a fair comparison, The JCM is not breaking the power tubes at volume 2, only the preamp tubes...