How Do Chain Lift hills Work On Rides
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
- It’s simple right, what goes up must come down.
This is the fundamental principle on how most rollercoasters work.
But how do we get the train up there.
Let’s talk about how lift hills work.
Chain 03:41
Straight link 05:27
S link 07:40
Chain stretch 09:01
Chain dog 11:10
Chain liner 12:44
Sprockets 20:40
Lift motor 23:53
Chain tension 27:37
Fluid coupling 32:25
Sprag one way clutch 35:37
Anti-rollback rail 37:29
Terms to understand 40:55 - Розваги
Ryan I just wanted to say I appreciate the content you put out and love how often you're putting out these informative videos! Thanks so much, hope you're well!
Thank you glad your enjoying it
I was at carowinds on Easter Sunday. I was shocked by the ride crew (my home park is knotts berry farm with bad ops) they had 6 people on the platform with a grouper and a dedicated announcer, but I was also shocked by how fast the lift was. Great vid!
Thanks
Wow..... I will NEVER complain about ride ops at Cedar Point or Kings Island (not that I do now because they're usually great) after reading this. We are at Carowinds now, and even with the separator, and everything else, besides Fury, and Thunder striker, the ride ops would have been deemed unacceptable for those parks. I'm not saying Carowinds has bad ops, just that CP, and KI ops must just be that much better.
Schwarzkopf built a really interesting design for chain lifts on the transportable Looping Star, Silver Arrow and Double Loop models (after that, they switched to drive tires on the lift). They don''t use a roller chain, but two chains that look like a regular chain you would use to pull/lift something (not sure about the technical name, but you probably know what I mean). The chains run in parallel, connected by spacer blocks, and there are two pushers (distant relatives of Bob 😁) mounted to the chain so that when one goes over the lift crown, the other one pops up in the station behind the train. The trains don't directly engage with the chain, but just get pushed from the rear (not as sophisticated as on the Shuttle Loops, there is no counterweighted lever - but the train doesn't go in reverse, so it isn't needed). The chain even extends all the way through the station, so the train gets picked up by the chain from the loading position.
The reason for this interesting setup (i think there is even a patent available online in English) is that you could simply remove the sprockets on either end and the whole chain assembly, guided by the spacers, will slide in a controlled fashion into its storage position without the need to open it or without the risk of tangles.
Oh that’s neat. I know what you’re talking about. I never considered the ease of teardown that’s really fascinating. I love those early coasters. Such amazing ideas put into play and from the days where they weren’t 100% sure it was going to work either! I’ve seen some documentaries of Schwarzkopf walking around the construction yard making spot changes to designs working with the fabricators. Thanks for the cool info!
@@ryantheridemechanicare you talking about the documentary where they are finishing the first Looping Star? It's pretty obably hard for you to understand everything, as all is in German... 😅
@@Colaholiker I turn on captions and do the “translate this”. It works well. I have always wanted to learn German but I barely learned English hahah!! so I suppose it will have to wait.
If you go on the Wild Mouse at Dorney Park, you can see the tensioner in operation.
Oh kudos for getting a Hyperia shot in your video Ryan. I’ll be riding this on 24th 🤩
BTW, if you ride a bicycle (or a motorcycle), you are intimately familiar with straight link roller chains .... just very much smaller ones. The issues of stretch and wear are the same, however.
Dare I say young man. Bravo, bravo for another excellent video. I was thinking, if this hasn't already been mentioned, is why some manfacturers have the train connect to the track with the wheels on the outside of the spine like B & M and why others like the old arrows connect to the track with the wheels on the inside of the main rails. If that makes sense. Dammit can you make a video about train/track/wheel assembly design?
It’s in the works! Having to do some research. Every manufacturer makes them different. I’ll have to include track style along with it.
Was shocked to find out the B&Ms at work have DC motors, some of the older coasters also had DC motors in their past but have since been switched to VFD-driven AC motors.
Don't know if you'll cover it in the vertical lift video but Hershey has Fahrenheit with a vertical lift that's hydraulic powered. One of one I believe.
Luckily for you that’s next weeks video I go over vertical and cable lifts. Make sure you tune in.
very important information for me ^^ since I get to work my favorite ride tomorrow and that has a chain lift hill
And knowing is half the battle!
Thanks for all the info.😊
Your welcome.
27:00 I recall being around Diamondback when such a sound happened. There was a train near the top, and I heard an almighty bang. ('Thor, the God of Thunder is trying to enter my building!') The train dropped off the chain just fine, and finished the circuit, but it was shut down for an hour or two. Started back up and finished the day. I suspect a sprocket skipped or the chain climbed off of the head sprocket teeth, and the bang was it slamming back into the teeth, where it luckily caught and stayed.
Wow not good if it was down for a while afterwards
@@ryantheridemechanic no doubt categorized by the operators as a "that wasn't a usual sound" moment ... and they wisely called for help.
What i heard is that B&M added their pre drops at the top of the lift to reduce wear on the chain tensioner. But then when they switched to a new tensioner mechanism they got rid of them.
Honestly only knows for sure. But not tearing up the ARB is the reason I know. Not saying it’s the ultimate reason but one of them.
Always a good day when ryan posts
Very interesting really liked this video
Thank you
Could you do a video where you talk about how the drop mechanism works on dive coasters? Is there a reversed chain dog that locks into the chain over the drop?
Really interstellar video. I’d love to see a video on how you tinker with rides to figure out why they aren’t working right. When I went to nick universe they were tinkering with Sandy all day
Love this vid! Back to basics 💪
Pretty cool video with great timing. Im currently helping to replace liners and chain on a b&m.
Good to see another video, Ryan!!!
Thanks
Quality content as always :)
Thank you!
Thank you for covering this!
Your welcome
Another good video! Thanks, looking forward to cable lifts. Although I can only think of 2 that use it.
i305 and millennium force?
No skyline at my local park Alton Towers - can’t build above tree height. It’s made for some great coaster designs though.
Which is interesting, because they opt for digging/blasting into the ground to preserve it.
Great in depth video as usually. Two questions do you know how much weight a B&M coaster has sat on the tensioner assemble? Also do some GCI woodies use the weight of the chain for tension, As I was at Alton towers in the wicker man que line and I noticed on the return to the bottom of the lift you could see that the chain was floating in mid air. Also in the motor house there was quite a long channel for the chain to come out so I wonder if it uses its own weight for tension.
I’m not sure if the exact weight on the B&M counterweight stack but it’s close to about 1000lbs.
29:35 I talk about chain weight tension on the GCI style rides.
Phantoms Revenge at Kennywood has this weird oscillation as your being pulled up, unlike a consistent chain speed you typically feel it constantly accelerating and decelerating. I have rode a few other coasters that have had that feeling. At the same park, Steel Curtain has to make the lift at a laughably slow speed. The train engages and it doesn't pick up any speed until all of the train is on the lift. It also takes the cake for the loudest lift I have ever been on. They have an announcer talking via speakers on the lift and you can't hear what is being said.
Just a guess here, but it’s probably old electric drives, trying to balance a dynamic load on the lift.PID loop used for things like that and doesn’t sound like it was balanced
so roller chain for roller coaster. got it
Rollers are good, right! Even for the hair!!
I believe the first comment I ever made was in regards to the sound of the motor and gearbox on SLC's. Glad to hear that described in a little more detailed manner.
Maybe I missed this, but is every link a master link on a lift chain? If not, do master link components have maintenence needs beyond the rest of the chain?
'Lift park' is, for me personally, my least favorite part of the ride. I am scared to death of heights, but I'm gonna be one of the first Top Thrill 2 riders, I'm a complicated individual 😂
I was stopped on traffic on a bridge under construction recently and it took me back to being stuck on Gatekeeper's lift hill the first run of a very windy halloweekend thursday. I look over and see the tops of 3 cranes swaying while stopped on the bridge. It reminded me of being stuck on the lift hill and the whole ride is vibrating like crazy, so I look over to the lake and the crest of the immelman is just there chillin next to me. All I see is that section of track, no supports visible, it looked like it was just levitatng in the air. The sensation of passing a massive piece of track 100+ feet in the air now is intimidating and badass, pardon my language.
Can't wait for cable lifts. It would be cool to get your perspective about innovation and cutting edge technology. Like I imagine intamin has their success with the millenium force cable lift and Dick Kinzel says to them "hey, we went 300 ft, let's go 400. But we dont have a lot of space for a huge coaster or much money for steel" and intamin is like "well, we could lay that lift hill down flat, and put a big cable reel and hydraulic motor on it, and speed it up like 10 times faster 🤔 then maybe you won't need a whole bunch of steel, just a slight smaller but still whole bunch of steel"
Just some thoughts
When are you hoping to get some park trips in this year, if you're able to? Hope to catch you at a park someday, get a ride in with you, and then hope it happens again someday after that 😂
Another great video, makes me want to go back to work. Was wondering if you guys had problems with miscatching trains where the dogs fell down a link midway tru the lift. The operators at the parks I worked at would e-stop the ride because they got scared and where always suprised seeing me start it right back up again.
That’s mainly just a matter of time. Most all rides do it “skip a link” it does sound super nasty and I could easily see hitting a stop for it. Rides that feed the train at the same speed as the chain do it the least.
Thank you for this informative and well made video. I just wanted to know how the "counter weight" works but i know everything now i guess. :D
Question: Since DC-Motors are used because of the high torque. Are there coasters with a hydraulic motor? Because there are some funfair rides with hydraulic motors instead of DC-Motors because of the high force they have to maintain especially mondial is/was known for that in the 90s.
Kind regards from Germany
Most of the time no. Generally because the end speed is too low. And if you increase the size the system to get the speed up, you’ve now made the system way more expensive than putting in a high dollar DC lift motor.
@@ryantheridemechanic Ah okay. Thank you :)
Phantoms Revenge at my home park as an Arrow Lift Hill. I love the sound of Arrows Lift hills? What makes that sound? I noticed that Arrows chain lifts have a more recognizable sound than other chain lifts.
It’s more than likely the style of Anti-rollbacks used on the train. Heavy and steel on steel.
@@ryantheridemechanic thank you ! 🙏
Great video as always! I've always wondered something, i used to work on a Wisdom Cobra Coaster, their larger model with 2 spirals, and it utilized drive tires as the way to bring the train to the top. This coaster maybe had 8 drive motors/tires and we always seemed to have problems week after week with them, along with the coaster eating up those tires prematurely. Obviously the coaster couldnt utilize a chain lift because of the spiral lift, but i always wondered if a chain lift on a jr/family coaster was either less or more maintenance intensive as oppposed to a drive tire lift?
ivy worked on spiral lifts with drive tires as well. paining the bit. put the loss of power from a chain moving in a spiral is / we was crazy. im betting expensive as well with an added chain axis. must be a good reason not to use them
The “bullwheel” for the drive sprocket reminds me of the main wheels at the ends of a chairlift that drive the entire cable (on them, there are 2 bull wheels, one drive and one return). And at either the drive or return bullwheel on a chairlift, there is a tensioning system as well, but since the 1980’s, most chairlifts have used hydraulic cylinders for their tensioning instead of a counterweight. I was wondering if a similar system is ever used instead of a counterweight for cable/chain tension, since counterweights have been used both in chains and in the weight-drop launch system you covered last time.
I also know that with bikes, there is often a quick link that can be easily separated (with a tool) to take the chain apart. It also is useful when lubricating to know I’ve covered the entire chain. Do roller coaster chain lifts have the same?
First part. Most chains use a counterweight to tension. Just less to go wrong and the load hardly changes unlike a cable chair lift. For some cable lifts like eltoro, they use pneumatics to tension the lift cable. I go over this in next weeks video.
Ride chains typically have a master link. They are held on with snap rings etc cotter pins. Not easy to remove when you’re dealing with 6 tons of chain.
I was fascinated to learn about cable marriages. Speaking of chair lifts. I learned in a wire rope inspection class that a chairlift system can have 10+ cables inside and not one cable is mechanically connected together they all just use a cable marriage extremely interesting to learn.
Why is the sprag clutch attached to the output shaft of the gearbox in line with the bull sprocket instead of on the back of the motor shaft as done with the spring applied brakes?
Just the style. Some place it on the output shaft of the motor, before the gearbox. But then if the gearbox breaks, the sprag fails. So thy put it on the output of the gearbox so there’s less room for failure.
For trains that have 2 chain dogs, do both engage simultaneously, or is one a redundancy in case of failure from the first one? Is it possible for both to be engaged, doing the same work to the train, with all of the different components of both the chain and the train stretching and changing lengths (ever so slightly)?
Most of the time one is engaged the other sits on top or ahead of the next roller. Both chain dogs can be in at the same time no problems with that. The chain will stretch yes.
I always thought it was cool that the tension weight on "mystery green b&m" is visible from the queue. I geek out and watch it move as the train latches onto the chain. Any idea how much all of that mass weighs?
Just the weight varies but it’s 1000-1500 pounds. Somewhere around there.
@@ryantheridemechanic That's kind of surprisingly little. I expected at least several tons lol
@@awesometronic you don’t need much as the entire assembly is oiled and rotating.
25:25 I like the creative "Subscribe" pointer ; )
I use them all over. I feel it looks better than just a solid arrow.
Ryan can you do anything on block systems ?
Such as?
What are those sensors at 43:44, I’m assuming they are the block clear sensor (once the back of the train had passed)
Yes. Double duty they will count the train into the next block and out of the last block. Once all the counts align the block will reset.
42:57 Why are the 2 proximity sensors on either side of the track instead of on the same side? And why is one a foot or two further down the track? Also, at 43:46, what is that brake-like mechanism just off the crown? And if it is a brake, when would it be used since if the block zone ahead were occupied, the chain wouldn't let the train get high enough to go over the crown?
The different side represent and A and B side of the processor. They are space to separate the signals for fault checking. The device is a trim break to slow the train down just after the crown. Trim brakes can’t be used as block brakes in this case.
I know from my experiences with chain guides or liners.....is that we use nylon instead of plastic...
Have you taken a look at the Gatekeeper Video or pictures of the chain failure when the ride was in operation....???
It was about time for them to change the chain in my opinion... cause the ride was in between the 5 to 10 years of at the age of 7 years...
Also what can cause chain come up out of the trough and lift the train UP i mean it the bounced like the motor was struggling....this was on Preditor at Darien Lake....
Are variable speed 3 phase as well where you get up so far past the sensor and then it takes off up the lift...??
Haven’t see the video of gatekeeper chain issue honestly. When was that?
For a woodie, the sub supports were probably broken, or the laminate stack came apart. Either way, something had to move over.
You can speed up with a good 3phase or DC these days. When rides do that at the base, they are matching the lift intake speed of the train then going faster. We had a ride with 3 speeds over the top of the lift. Slow for rain days. Normal for regular operation and fast for AM and load testing (cold trains move slow)
@ryantheridemechanic Yeah the Gatekeeper chain break was June 12, 2021...
I do believe there is a video of it happening...
I know there is a video of the aftermath
let me say it took them a few months to get it up and running again no small job...I mean cause it broke from the rear and just came sliding down FAST AND LOUD lucky no track damage....
have noticed in the past some lift hills the motor/chains ran all the time. But have notice mre recently the chain lifts are off until the ride dispatches then turns on. Is there a reason for the differences? Or did they find that the parts had longer life when not running all the time.
That’s mainly the new drive motors being able to efficiently slow or stop. A lot of rides slow, that’s when the chain is oiled. Some stop. No big deal these days. Old rides, burns the motor up quick doing that.
Do you know if any currently operating roller coasters that are (for what ever reason) powered by something other than the Electrical grid.... I know you have mentioned diesel power units for traveling fairs... but what about at permanent parks, or even steam or something like a weight fall .... just not regular grid power?
I honestly do not. Even weight drop rides need large electric motors to lift the weight. Might have enough energy wrapped up in a flywheel launch ride to get the train through the circuit. Maybe. Even then, I doubt it.
Green Dragon at GreenWood Forest Park
which manufacturers have the worst chain lifts? I don't think you mentioned in this video the chainlift speeding up btw. Some newer coasters drag you up slowly until the whole train is on the lift hill then it speeds up.
Even though I make niche videos, there are thousand of variations control systems can make a ride do. So I need to lick and choose what goes in. Normally it’s what the majority of rides do. But if enough demon happens I’ll talk about it.
May i ask with commonly used vertical lift such as older Eurofighter
What happen if there's need for evacuation like for example chain snapping? Is there any way to evacuate the rider easily? Or just called the firefighter?
For something crazy like a snapped chain you will be using a manlift or emergency service to get people off. A lot of vertical lifts do have evacuation procedures using the ride equipment. But chain snap might rule those out.
@@ryantheridemechanic Also one more thing.
Can (specifically) Eurofighter and Infinity train disengage the ARB system and lower it with chain lift in most situation? Or is it easier to just make the train clear the lifthill and course?
So then, how did the chain snap on Gatekeeper at Cedar Point 3 years ago?
You can always have failures regardless of the situation.
@ryantheridemechanic so that chain could of snapped for a number of different reasons. It was just surprising since Gatekeeper is one of the most reliable rides in the park. Well, B&M's in general are pretty reliable vs other Manufacturers
It may be a really dumb question but I’ve always been curious, how heavy are the chains?
I’ve always imagined it can’t be as simply heavy as a bike chain lol
Slightly heavier.
Seriously just figure about 14lbs a foot. So a B&m lift about 150ish feet has roughly 13,000 pounds of chain in it.
Thank you! That makes a lot of sense! 😃
I think the audio got pulled for some reason 😢
I got it on my end?
It's back. Your video was the only one at that time not playing audio. Very odd. Anyway great video!
@@bryangreen9889 thanks. Glad the glitch was fixed
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