Thanks, Daniel! I look forward to hearing in person what you liked best about this video (besides me missing shots), compared to my other recent stuff. I was honestly worried people might think this one was too "advanced" or "technical."
Another excellent video Dr.Dave. I'm realizing that as a intermediate play, keeping things simple and not using inside or outside spin is best for me. A great leave means nothing if you don't pot the object ball. How many time have I said to myself as I walk back to my chair "Damn, it was a great leave"....
We don’t know ‘till someone tries it and records the results. Thanks so much for doing this Dave. I had this discussion recently at the pool hall with one of our masters players. It’s like you’re listening in to my conversations somehow.
There's some clip of jj on commentary saying something to the tune or you'd be surprised the angle you can hold with straight draw, and that has always stuck in my head. Thanks for confirming this tidbit of info!
Dear Dr. Dave, one thing I noticed that you didn't make a vid has a combination of CIT/SIT for long shot combined with the effect of the cue deflection when shotting from long distance. ex, long shot and the OB has to be hit in the half, so, there will be two things cut/side induced throw because I want to play it with stun and left hand side but what about the cue ball deflection from that long distance? I know it's not an easy thing, a lot of factors. thanks
In this video, I was assuming one could aim accurately to compensate for CB deflection at all shot speeds and distances. I use SAWS for this: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/saws/ I have lots of info and videos dealing with how to aim when using sidespin here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/ Enjoy!
@@DrDaveBilliards they will but who knows how powerful will soak it in will take a month! I have mention you so many times on my channel how one video you made change my life Literally
Good video Dave, What you were saying about Inside swerve does not align with My internal understanding, can you explain why? Here is my understanding Swerve is the combination of deflection plus spinback. This only happens if you are hitting slower than stun speed. Stun speed should be deflection only because there is no time for spinback. Drawing the cue ball has to be above stun speed. The elevation of course allows you to get much more throw I guess what I think is this cannot be swerve because there is no spin back, it has to be only deflection, and throw of course. I think that what's happening at 4:45 Is you aim fuller, deflection changes the angle, but throw throws toward the long rail. And all of these things together allow you to hit slightly fuller and still make the ball. Ps. I think what I was trying to explain before about bottom inside stun is using forces that cancel out so I can aim right down the natural line. It's kind of the opposite of gearing that uses SIT to cancel CIT, except I am using deflection to cancel CIT.
@@shanesoldner9117 See the explanations and links under “Is inside english a better choice than outside english to limit CB sideways drift on some shots?” here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/inside/
@@JerryLee.. I’m glad it was what you wanted. BTW, if you like pool myth busting, check out my Top 100 Busted Pool Myths here: billiards.colostate.edu/myths/
On the last examples, it's difficult to use inside spin because the spin on the object ball towards the same side of the pocket you are aiming at if I am understanding the effects of spin correctly. This is why with inside spin on a cut angle it's possible to send the ball straight in the pocket by aiming at about an 8th of the ball rather than aiming at 16th. Another example is when you are aiming directly at the object ball and it is about 5/8ths or 3/4ths angle from the pocket on the left of the pocket it can be pocketed with a straight on shot with about a tip of running english and a bit of top helps. Using bottom in the example as I understand changes the cut angle making you have to hit a bit thinner for a successful cut whereas top english tends to require a bit fuller depending on speed. This is what I have found myself and curious to know if you had any simular results. I have been working on a two rail and one rail kicking system with great results so far.
@@CosplayZine Inside spin with a cut angle like this actually reduces the amount of throw. See the pertinent bullets, links, and explanations here, especially in the “Is inside english a better choice than outside english to limit CB sideways drift on some shots?” section: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/inside/
What were the various angles of your cue stick relative to the table at maximum reachback and then at tip contact with the cue ball when executing those draw shots? What does a "level" cue while executing draw shots really imply?
@@DeeDee-fi4kq My cue was “as level as possible,” which means barely clearing over the rail. I show the tip positions on the spin diagrams (in the top-right part of the screen) for every shot. I was very close to the miscue limit for every shot in the last section.
@@DrDaveBilliards For a fact your cue stick is being raised by your grip hand on the backswing and is then lowered again to "as level as possible" on the forward stroke. This teeter totter motion of the cue stick does not in any way change the contact point of the tip with the cue ball, but it does change the vector of force for the impact.
@@DeeDee-fi4kq The grip hand does go up and down during a pendulum stroke, but this has no effect on tip contact point or force direction at impact. The cue’s motion is straight at impact. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/pendulum-piston/ especially the section and link at the bottom of the page.
Thanks, inside/outside spin depending on cut angle is kinda confusing. Why was it called that way to begin with instead of left or right spin which is simpler.
Because inside/outside can be used for any angle, but with left/right it always switches depending on the pocket that is directed at, but saying inside/outside eliminates the ambiguity.
@@228_anakagungngurahwibisan6 Excellent answer. Also, the spin diagrams in the video (top right) help clear up potential confusion (showing what side of the CB the tip is on).
Question, how much do different cue balls affect action on cue ball? I have used a red circle cue ball, aramith pro cup, aramith measle ball, and with all of them I feel they react differently to the same stroke and action. Is there any truth to this and if so, what effects are consistent among the group of cue balls?
@@williammcdowell3718 I don’t think there is any important difference, practically speaking, unless any of the balls in the comparison are old, dirty, or polished. Then there could be significant differences per the info and demos here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/ball/cleaning/
The most useful shot like this is when you have a long cut into the side and a rolling cue ball will scratch naturally into the corner. The easiest way to avoid the scratch is just to put outside on the rolling cue ball so that it goes to the short rail instead. Most people tend to draw out of it instead and miss the shot.
@@scottbacci8933 This is a common misconception. There is actually less friction (and throw) with angled inside spin shots. See the info and links here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/inside/
In the final shot, it seems the low draw is what gets you the action to tighten the angle, but your missing the point of the sidespin. Watch what the cueball does AFTER it draws back and hits the rail, that it what the sidespin is for.
Agreed. The main purpose for sidespin is to change rebound angle and speed off cushions; but as the video clearly showed, inside and outside spin can also change CB carom angle off the OB. See also my sidespin myth videos: ua-cam.com/video/QA7FyS6tWdY/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/9TokaN0ghSA/v-deo.html
@@bwally0210 See all bridge length effects here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bridge/length/ Why do you think bridge length could affect CB direction or path off the OB?
*Contents:*
0:00 - Intro
1:01 - Inside Forward
2:33 - Quick Draw
4:22 - Inside Swerve
5:23 - Draw Comparison
8:11 - Draw Challenge
11:55 - More Info
*Supporting Resources:*
- “Pool Made Simple … HOW TO AIM USING SIDESPIN … with GoPro POV” video: ua-cam.com/video/6WsX91w279M/v-deo.html
- gearing outside spin: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/outside-gearing/
- inside spin advantages: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/inside/
- throw hold shots: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/throw/hold/
- elevated quick draw: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/quick/
- cue elevation issues: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/elevation/
- after-collision massé shots: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/masse/after-collision/
- 30-degree-rule peace sign technique: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/30-90-rules/peace-sign/
- 3-times-the-angle draw system: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/trisect/
- throw tutorial: billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/throw/
- sidespin tutorial: billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/sidespin/
*Subscribe to Dr. Dave's UA-cam Channel:*
ua-cam.com/users/DrDaveBilliards
Thanks Dave! I think this is one of your best videos yet! And it is good to know that you miss shots like the rest of us! I’m gonna try this today.
Thanks, Daniel! I look forward to hearing in person what you liked best about this video (besides me missing shots), compared to my other recent stuff. I was honestly worried people might think this one was too "advanced" or "technical."
We wouldn't come to@@DrDaveBilliardsif we didn't want technicality. Loved this. It felt like mythbusters for pool.
This is solid gold. I learned new stuff and I was reminded of stuff I had forgotten.
I'm glad to hear it.
"Some people might think.....but these people would be wrong." That's my new catchphrase!
@@trailerwookie I’m glad to hear it. I use this often in our Boot Camps.
Another excellent video Dr.Dave. I'm realizing that as a intermediate play, keeping things simple and not using inside or outside spin is best for me. A great leave means nothing if you don't pot the object ball. How many time have I said to myself as I walk back to my chair "Damn, it was a great leave"....
@@martinolson761 I’m glad you liked it. Good point.
Dr Dave with the save inside is the only thing I need to learn more about
@@austinmoore1689 FYI, I have a lot more info and videos dealing with inside spin here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/inside/
Good info. Very helpful,.practical and straightforward. Thanks.
Thanks. I'm glad you think so. This is a tough topic to make simple.
Excellent demonstration! It’s always rewarding to draw out of a scratch when your opponent thought it was impossible.
@@jaysonmarvich1297 Thanks.
Really liked the visualization of the data in this one
@@mmmPlE I’m glad. It took a lot more work than normal, but I agree it was worth it.
Been waiting for a video that covers these topics. Great knowledge! Thank you soooo much Dr. Dave. You're the best!
@@naonao76 I’m glad your wait is now over. You’re welcome, and thank you.
We don’t know ‘till someone tries it and records the results. Thanks so much for doing this Dave. I had this discussion recently at the pool hall with one of our masters players. It’s like you’re listening in to my conversations somehow.
You're welcome. Dr. Dave hears your thoughts. :)
There's some clip of jj on commentary saying something to the tune or you'd be surprised the angle you can hold with straight draw, and that has always stuck in my head. Thanks for confirming this tidbit of info!
@@jagger8655 You’re welcome. As usual, JJ tells the truth.
A great demonstration while trying to keep it simple : ) ... and it is THAT Simple; not an easy task DrDave! Hat's off to ya! Be Safe
@@rodconner9079 Thanks. This video was definitely tough to keep simple (and still useful).
That was some pretty heavy stuff there Dr. Dave. Thank you sir.
I hope it was a good kind of "heavy."
Dear Dr. Dave, one thing I noticed that you didn't make a vid has a combination of CIT/SIT for long shot combined with the effect of the cue deflection when shotting from long distance.
ex, long shot and the OB has to be hit in the half, so, there will be two things cut/side induced throw because I want to play it with stun and left hand side but what about the cue ball deflection from that long distance? I know it's not an easy thing, a lot of factors. thanks
In this video, I was assuming one could aim accurately to compensate for CB deflection at all shot speeds and distances. I use SAWS for this:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/saws/
I have lots of info and videos dealing with how to aim when using sidespin here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/
Enjoy!
Amazing video Dr DAVE
@@apexpredatorbilliardstraining Thank you. I was worried many people might think this one is too “technical” or “advanced.”
@@DrDaveBilliards they will but who knows how powerful will soak it in will take a month! I have mention you so many times on my channel how one video you made change my life Literally
@@apexpredatorbilliardstraining I’m glad to hear it. Which video was that?
Practice what Dave teaches =‘s skill building.🏆
@@CocoboloCowboy Good advice!
Thanks for the great analysis!
@@sohjunwen5490 You’re welcome. I enjoyed working on this one, and I got lots of good practice.
Love your vids!
@@dwaynehendricks7842 I’m glad to hear it. Thanks for watching.
Good video Dave,
What you were saying about Inside swerve does not align with My internal understanding, can you explain why?
Here is my understanding
Swerve is the combination of deflection plus spinback. This only happens if you are hitting slower than stun speed. Stun speed should be deflection only because there is no time for spinback. Drawing the cue ball has to be above stun speed. The elevation of course allows you to get much more throw
I guess what I think is this cannot be swerve because there is no spin back, it has to be only deflection, and throw of course.
I think that what's happening at 4:45 Is you aim fuller, deflection changes the angle, but throw throws toward the long rail. And all of these things together allow you to hit slightly fuller and still make the ball.
Ps.
I think what I was trying to explain before about bottom inside stun is using forces that cancel out so I can aim right down the natural line. It's kind of the opposite of gearing that uses SIT to cancel CIT, except I am using deflection to cancel CIT.
@@shanesoldner9117 See the explanations and links under “Is inside english a better choice than outside english to limit CB sideways drift on some shots?” here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/inside/
This amount of knowledge will burn 🔥 brilliance in your game
@@apexpredatorbilliardstraining Opponents will feel the burn!
Timely video Doc. Seems like you read my mind! Thank you for posting and exposing myths. #PoolMythBuster
@@JerryLee.. I’m glad it was what you wanted. BTW, if you like pool myth busting, check out my Top 100 Busted Pool Myths here:
billiards.colostate.edu/myths/
On the last examples, it's difficult to use inside spin because the spin on the object ball towards the same side of the pocket you are aiming at if I am understanding the effects of spin correctly. This is why with inside spin on a cut angle it's possible to send the ball straight in the pocket by aiming at about an 8th of the ball rather than aiming at 16th. Another example is when you are aiming directly at the object ball and it is about 5/8ths or 3/4ths angle from the pocket on the left of the pocket it can be pocketed with a straight on shot with about a tip of running english and a bit of top helps. Using bottom in the example as I understand changes the cut angle making you have to hit a bit thinner for a successful cut whereas top english tends to require a bit fuller depending on speed. This is what I have found myself and curious to know if you had any simular results. I have been working on a two rail and one rail kicking system with great results so far.
@@CosplayZine Inside spin with a cut angle like this actually reduces the amount of throw. See the pertinent bullets, links, and explanations here, especially in the “Is inside english a better choice than outside english to limit CB sideways drift on some shots?” section:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/inside/
Great info
@@paulsarkozy8383 Thanks.
Thanks doc
You're welcome. I aim to swerve (with outside and inside). 🤓
What were the various angles of your cue stick relative to the table at maximum reachback and then at tip contact with the cue ball when executing those draw shots? What does a "level" cue while executing draw shots really imply?
@@DeeDee-fi4kq My cue was “as level as possible,” which means barely clearing over the rail. I show the tip positions on the spin diagrams (in the top-right part of the screen) for every shot. I was very close to the miscue limit for every shot in the last section.
@@DrDaveBilliards For a fact your cue stick is being raised by your grip hand on the backswing and is then lowered again to "as level as possible" on the forward stroke. This teeter totter motion of the cue stick does not in any way change the contact point of the tip with the cue ball, but it does change the vector of force for the impact.
@@DeeDee-fi4kq The grip hand does go up and down during a pendulum stroke, but this has no effect on tip contact point or force direction at impact. The cue’s motion is straight at impact. See:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/pendulum-piston/
especially the section and link at the bottom of the page.
Thanks, inside/outside spin depending on cut angle is kinda confusing. Why was it called that way to begin with instead of left or right spin which is simpler.
Because inside/outside can be used for any angle, but with left/right it always switches depending on the pocket that is directed at, but saying inside/outside eliminates the ambiguity.
@@228_anakagungngurahwibisan6 Excellent answer. Also, the spin diagrams in the video (top right) help clear up potential confusion (showing what side of the CB the tip is on).
Question, how much do different cue balls affect action on cue ball? I have used a red circle cue ball, aramith pro cup, aramith measle ball, and with all of them I feel they react differently to the same stroke and action. Is there any truth to this and if so, what effects are consistent among the group of cue balls?
@@williammcdowell3718 I don’t think there is any important difference, practically speaking, unless any of the balls in the comparison are old, dirty, or polished. Then there could be significant differences per the info and demos here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/ball/cleaning/
I was taught in snooker that side spins does not affect path of CB unless running into a cushion
@@daniellim7503 That is mostly true. See my sidespin myth videos:
SIDESPIN MYTHS Debunked - ua-cam.com/video/QA7FyS6tWdY/v-deo.html
Sidespin Myth Follow-Up - ua-cam.com/video/9TokaN0ghSA/v-deo.html
Enjoy!
I wonder how long distance shots with this same concept will vary
@@StunDan The elevated and sidespin approaches will obviously be much more difficult at larger distance.
The most useful shot like this is when you have a long cut into the side and a rolling cue ball will scratch naturally into the corner. The easiest way to avoid the scratch is just to put outside on the rolling cue ball so that it goes to the short rail instead. Most people tend to draw out of it instead and miss the shot.
@@Gotwired Good point. Outside can widen the angle just like inside can narrow the angle.
the inside also grips the object ball slightly longer allowing for more momentum through.
@@scottbacci8933 This is a common misconception. There is actually less friction (and throw) with angled inside spin shots. See the info and links here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/inside/
Can i use a Carom cue too play. American pool 8 ball.?
@@JCapilla89 Sure. Just be aware that it will have more CB deflection when using sidespin (due to the lighter CB).
@DrDaveBilliards
Can i have problem whit this deflection im a beginner so i dont know what is deflecion sorry.
Can you please explain me.?
@ See the videos and info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/effects/
I’d be curious, around the 11 minute mark, if the results would be different if you elevated the cue…
@@logic368 Yes. Inside would spin would allow for a narrower angle, but it would be much tougher to aim accurately with a longer shot like this.
In the final shot, it seems the low draw is what gets you the action to tighten the angle, but your missing the point of the sidespin.
Watch what the cueball does AFTER it draws back and hits the rail, that it what the sidespin is for.
Agreed. The main purpose for sidespin is to change rebound angle and speed off cushions; but as the video clearly showed, inside and outside spin can also change CB carom angle off the OB. See also my sidespin myth videos:
ua-cam.com/video/QA7FyS6tWdY/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/9TokaN0ghSA/v-deo.html
Excellent info as always. I'd be interested in a video on how shortening/lengthening bridge length has on the cue ball travel post tangent line.
@@bwally0210 See all bridge length effects here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bridge/length/
Why do you think bridge length could affect CB direction or path off the OB?
“I can easily get the breakout without any pocket cheat” then hits the cushion nipple again 😂 don’t be cappin dr Dave
@@jacobslemmer6168 The statement is still true, but good point. I should have shown an example entering the pocket cleanly.