No joke--I was considering this keyboard again, and wondered about reliability. So I started a search, and thought, I bet Piano Tone would know, I wish he would post--AND HERE IT IS!
Fantastic review Tony! Thank you so much! I've been using a MODX8 at home to record for a while which I really love. And also an older MOX8 at church. Looking to replace the older church one because of issues and was thinking of changing out for the MODX8+ but just came across the CK88 at the store. Am really impressed with how easy it seems to adjust just like you were saying in your review and the great feel and sound. And for sharing with other players who aren't as technical, it really seems like a great way to go. Your review really helped with more insight into many of the great features. From what I can tell it has much of the same amazing Yamaha piano sound as the MODX8 which I fell in love with a while back so I think this is the one!
the CK 61 is so great and easy to use i sold my Nord Stage 3. I didn't buy it to replace the stage 3 i just needed something portable. and now I'm looking at buying the 88. It is the absolute most powerful intuitive fun keyboard/synth any body has been able to buy in the 40 years i've been noodling on synths, and rhodes. $1200 for the CK61 is unbelievable. You are right every patch sounds great. The layout is spectacular, and you don't need a manual to learn anything. The mic in is a bit goofy. and no music stand is really dumb. A separate slider on the surface for the mic input volume would be great. Sold the Nord stage 3 for $4500, i can buy 2 CK88's for that price and have much more fun IMO. instantly gratifying keyboard. ... Also, consider all your fav pro players doing huge live concert gigs over the years, from the 70s to present, the CK could easily fit the bill for almost everything anyone would need.
Well said totally agree! The mic in is super useful for practice, or if you're busking or something; I never used it with my band but it does have its uses. Thanks for checking out the channel, feel free to subscribe
Excellent review. It's extremely useful knowing about the little niggles in advance. The music stand issue, the protective case, the power cable, the downward firing speakers. These are all things that really befuddle me too. I know keeping costs down in production is an issue, but as a prospective buyer it makes me think what else have Yamaha not thought about in their design. Anyway, great review, very useful information. Thanks 👍
Another helpful review. I bought the Yamaha CK88 a few weeks back. I already have the Yamaha MODX8 which I bought 3 years ago plus a Yamaha P121 . Initial thoughts are that the GHS action in the CL88 on the model I have is slightly more sluggish. Hopefully playing it in will loosen things a little in time. I am finding though that the main piano tones sound so much better on the CK compared to the MODX. The velocity settings..key to sound relationship is perfect. Haven't gigged with it yet but will soon for commercial gigs. ( Korg Liano is being delivered soon which will cover casual jams/open mics). All the best. Stevie
Thanks again! And wow that’s awesome - you’re like me lol (more keyboards!!!!). I’ve never gotten much into the MOD line myself (should test one out one day). I was playing the Liano in a store a couple days ago and it continues to impress me.
@PianoTone The CK line is so much more intuitive for a live player. I think the menu diving on the MODx just spoils the experience. Plus there's something weird about the key velocity settings on the pianos. Anyway the more keyboards the better! Cheers and thanks again. 😁
Another great video Tony! Love your channel. I always look forward to hearing about your insights and experiences. I gig w the CK61. The 88 has the nice GHS and the advantages of the extra keys BUT many places we play require lugging our gear a long ways and/or up stairs and around tight spaces. In the end the smaller and lighter CK61 has been worth the tradeoffs for me. But I would be interested in moving up to a CK73/76 if that ever becomes available. Keep rocking! And keep posting!
Yeah the 61 is crazy portable! I’m actually switching my setup soon to a lighter 2 keyboard setup - I’m playing 90% organ now, 10% piano/EP/other with my band (if I’d known that I’d have kept my CK61 lol even through the 88 is fabulous for the little piano I’m playing). I have a Hammond M-Solo coming (49 key 2nd tier board only 8 lbs with the newest Hammond engine - pretty excited). Given my old bones will be hauling 2 now and I play so little piano I may be downgrading my CK to a Numa Compact - semi weighted piano keys and only 15 lbs).
@12:28 I've recently finally saw both CK61 and CK88 in my local shop, and I have to agree. From the player's position, it's actually weaker than the PSR-E373's 2.5Wx2 speakers, and comparing it to the DGX-670's 6Wx2 (also in shop) makes the importance of speaker placement clear. The main benefit of downwards or rearward facing speakers is likely to be the audience, not the player. The DGX is already loud enough I turn it down to below 50% when the accompaniment gets busy - with the CK I can be perfectly comfortable with max volume. Hopefully the audience is enjoying it, even if the player isn't.
My DGX speakers are fabulous - I think part of that is also the big heavy case they are sitting in. To be honest with my band, my speakers are always just off now anyways. Thanks for checking out the channel, feel free to subscribe
I'd like to provide a little bit of insight into the speaker design of the Yamaha CK88 and Yamaha P125. Both keyboards have downward-facing speakers. The CK88 has oval (12 cm x 6 cm) speakers, and the P125 has (circular) 12 cm speakers. The area of a 12 cm (diameter) circle is 113 squared cm, and the area of a (12 cm x 6 cm) ellipse is 56 squared cm. So, basically, the CK88 speakers move half the volume of air than the P125 speakers at the same wattage. A common design of speaker systems in digital pianos is that speakers are not always enclosed in boxes. For example, the Yamaha P125, Roland FP30X, and Kawai ES120 have speakers inside the digital piano case, but they don't have individual boxes. Other models, such as the Yamaha DGX670, Yamaha P525, Yamaha P-S500, Roland FP60X/90X, and Kawai ES520/920 have speakers in "ported" boxes (a hole with a pipe inside the box to enhance the low frequency response). Each design has its advantages and drawbacks: placing a speaker without any box inside the digital piano case allows the back wave of the speaker to fill the cabinet with sound, for a more natural piano tone... a bit similar to open-back guitar speaker cabinets. Ported designs provide a tighter, more accurate sound, better bass response, but at the expense of a more expansive natural sound, somehow similar to a closed-back guitar speaker cabinet. Oftentimes, both approaches are mixed into the design of some digital pianos, such as the Yamaha Clavinova CLP-745, which has 16 cm downward-facing woofers (no box) and 8 cm speakers contained in individual boxes facing the player. When speakers are not contained in individual boxes, the sound fills the entire cabinet and leaks through any hole. In the case of the Yamaha P125, the sound comes not only from the speakers facing downward, but also from the keyboard itself! Do the following experiment: play a demo song on the P125 and cover the keyboard (without covering the speakers) with a thick blanket... the sound becomes very muted. This is because the separation between the keys allow sound to disperse, and this is one of the most important sources of sound in models such as the P125, FP30X, and ES120. While these models may have "sound ports" (for example, the P125 has a number of holes on the back), the separation between the keys is arguably the most important source of sound dispersion, in conjunction with the speaker holes. The CK88 has the smaller speakers located on the back of the case, whereas the P125 has the speakers under the keyboard. This allows more sound to leak out directly through the keyboard, where the CK88 speakers have the top plastic panel over them. While sound can still get out through the CK88 keyboard, it must do so using a less direct pathway. In addition, the P125 has two big holes on top of its case. You might think these are "speaker" holes... they are not. There are no speakers there: the sound comes indirectly from the main 12 cm downward-facing speakers. The CK88 doesn't have any dedicated holes on top. This means the P125 has more ways to allow sound to come out of the case. The P125 has two tweeters on top, located toward the inner portion of the "speaker" holes, but their effect is minimal for piano sounds. In fact, if you cover the tweeters completely, the piano sound is almost not affected at all. You lose a bit of the brilliance, but not that much. The tweeters are much more important when using the built-in drum patterns, since drums easily reach the 20K hertz, whereas piano sounds are pretty much done around 6K-7K hertz for all practical purposes (this can be easily shown using digital filters in piano recordings), and even less (around 3K hertz) for warm piano samples. In other words, the 12 cm speakers handle most of the piano sound by themselves. This is why the Roland FP30X and Kawai ES120 can get away with not having dedicated tweeters. Or the P45/P143 for that matter. To summarize: both the CK88 and P125 have downward-facing speakers in box-less designs that fill the entire cabinet with sound. However, the P125 has, at least in design, some advantages: 1) upward-facing holes that allow the downward-facing speakers to breathe 2) tweeters on top, but they are not that relevant for piano sounds, particularly for people in the audience. The 12 cm full range speakers can easily handle most piano frequencies, within reasonable understanding of the term "full range" (more like 100 Hz - 10K Hz). 3) 12 cm speakers move twice more air than oval 12 cm x 6 cm speakers, which may impact overall volume and roundness of tone. They might also have a higher sensitivity (how loud they play at 1 watt, typically measured at 1 kHz), as larger full range speakers usually have higher sensitivity values than smaller ones. 4) 12 cm speakers are located under the keyboard, which serves as one of the most important sources of sound dispersion. Covering the keyboard with a thick blanket and playing a demo song reveals how important the keyboard slots are: you will get a very dull, tiny sound. The CK88 speakers are located towards the back, which makes more difficult for the sound to reach your ears via the keyboard slots.
@@Instrumental-Covers great info! I am curious if you have any knowledge of the Korg EK50 vs the louder version the EK50L. Supposedly same speakers/wattage etc. Do you know what about the design of the EK50L yields more volume?
@@jeffeason3599 Thanks! The Korg EK-50L has speakers of a higher sensitivity than the EK-50. Specifically, it has a sensitivity of 94 dB (measured providing 1 watt at 1 meter of distance from the speaker), typically playing a 1 kHz sine wave tone. Korg states that the EK-50L has two times the volume feeling of the EK-50. An increase of about 10 dB is required before the sound subjectively appears to be twice as loud, which suggests that the speakers of the EK-50 must have a sensitivity of about 84 dB, which is in the low range for a 12 cm speaker (being 87 dB - 90 dB more common). A 12 cm speaker with 94 dB sensitivity is quite rare, that's a pretty high sensitivity for such a small driver. That sensitivity is expected in a professional midrange driver (even 99 dB), but those speakers are full range with a whizzer cone... so, that is impressive. There is usually an inverse correlation between sensitivity and bass extension: more sensitivity means it plays louder with the same wattage but is produces less bass.
The 'boom' is a digital artifact from the sound engine. There is a power-up default value in software, and then when the signal chain starts up, establishes a new value. The change in value is both fast and large, which is effectively an impulse; the effect chain operates on that data which propagates through, causing that 'effect.' [You'll see this a fair bit in the effects world]
Preciate the detailed review. Idk why yamaha wont change that plug its like the weakness on many keyboards. As far as the speakers i think they did perfect... they're there but you cant see them! Looks better to me.. Im super excited for mine im coming from the mm series I got in 08 so its been a while since i had a new board.
@PianoTone Preciate it.. I went with the 88, an excellent condition from the guitar center for 1100. It actually delivers to my local Guitar center today. Question: Have you tried different expression pedals? I was trying to save a buck on the Nektar pedal on Amazon. I'm not sure if it would be compatible.
@@streetzfpv Any model will likely work fine; I've been using those cheap M-Audio ones and they're ok (they do the job) I tried the Yamaha one and it's definitely sturdier and better built but it doesn't perform any better, and it's bulkier and heavier to carry around. To be honest I'm still looking for the "right one"; the Roland EV-5 is one I want to try - it looks sturdy but it isn't big and clunky. I tried a stufiologic one off amazon and omg it was massive so I sent it back. :Let me know how the Nektar one is if you get it!
Tony, I know your musical life is very busy and just hoping that you will be able to find the time to produce some more of your exceptional DGX670 videos.
Yes I know I’ve been lacking in DGX videos recently; joining a blues band is consuming a LOT of time! But I do still have and use my trusty DGX so there will be more videos coming. Thanks so much for following the channel!
@@PianoTone Tony, thanks for your quick reply and I know your other DGX670 subscribers and I will be waiting for your next video with great anticipation.
The MODX/MODX+ 6 also has a similar soft case as the CK61, and the weight is just fine when used as a backpack. These are instruments meant to be moved. It only misses internal speakers of course.
Cool! That's a line of Yamahas that I've never tried out before. I don't play synth at all, but I hear these are great general use stage keyboards too. Thanks for checking out the channel, feel free to subscribe
Tony, as you said Hammond digital organ have a standard octave width (XK-4: Octave width: 16.5cm; white key length ~13.5cm) Yamaha YC-61 on the other hand has: Octave width: 16.1cm; white key length ~14cm I like YC-61 very much. Michael
@@PianoToneGuess what, Tony … I have returned YC61 and will be either getting CK61 or new Arturia KeyLab 61 MKIII. Why, you may ask 😊 I am getting more and more interested in pipe and church organs (I have easy and regular access to one or even two) and I felt that I do not need all the features of YC61 when I mostly use it with pipe organ VSTs I even considered Yamaha Reface YC (just for my pedalboard). I also have Yamaha P-45 Michael
@@mfurman I reviewed the Keylab Essential MK3 and it's MIDI capabilities are awesome (comes with Analog Lab V which is a huge MIDI bank worth about the same as the keyboard), but the key action wasn't the greatest: ua-cam.com/video/kFz4ymOyfus/v-deo.html Good luck in your search!
Hi Tony, I watched this great video again and I find it very helpful. By the way, do you know that Hammond organ may have: White Key Length: 13 cm Width: 2.1 cm This makes the octave width even less than 15 cm Thank you for your CK61 related videos. Michael
Thanks! The CK series really is very well designed, they are awesome overall instruments. Octave width on both the M-Solo and SK Pro are 165mm (I always measure from left of C to right of B ); and the keys are a bit shorter than most pianos they are 13.5 cm. Measuring the white key alone is 2.2-2.3 ish. There is a TINY bit more space between keys on Hammonds than pianos
The CK61 is a whole different league than the CT-S1; far better sounds, features and both have an action that feels almost semi weighted so CK61 all the way. Thanks for checking out the channel feel free to subscribe
Thanks so much for your in depth reviews!! There is a treasure trove of information on the CK series. Question: I seem to remember you saying something about the official case for the CK88. Do you have an opinion? I can get the official case for about $170 (Amazon prime day) or a generic 88 note soft wheeled bag for $80. Just wondering if the extra money is worth it. Thanks!
Thanks so much, glad you like the reviews! To be fair I haven't SEEN the custom case, but the CK88 is a pretty generic size, so lots of non Yamaha cases will be just fine and much cheaper. The case for the CK61 is $$ as well, but there aren't any generic cases that wouldn't be way too big for it, so I do recommend that one. Hope that helps! Thanks for checking out the channel, feel free to subscribe
Hi, would you say that CK-88 is the “next step” for those who have a P-125? Understand that “next step” means to experiment/play with sounds and effects without losing the escense of P-125. I’m thinking to replace my P-125 for a CK-88. Your videos and blog has been very helpful.
I would say either the CK-88 or the DGX-670 is a "next step" but in 2 slightly different directions. If your goal is to perform, play live, or even just go have fun jamming with other musicians, then the CK-88 would the right next step. If you don't see yourself ever moving your keyboard around (taking it to jam sessions, gigging etc) and you not only want to experiment with sounds and effects but also with playing along with rhythms and accompaniment, and making recordings the DGX-670 might be a better choice. They both have improved sounds over the P-125 (as well as way more sounds), and both share the exact same keyboard action; the CK-88 is built to be a stage instrument (so LOTS of physical controls to work with sounds and effects) and the DGX is big heavy and bulky and meant to be a home instrument (lots of functionality as well but much of it deeply nested in menus you have to work through). Here is my review on the DGX: ua-cam.com/video/QzijMbsfgm8/v-deo.html Hope that helps! Thanks for checking out the channel, feel free to subscribe
My complaint is on the transition of the live sets, when i change a live set while a string for example is sustained, the volume either goes loud or softer. Another is when turning off the voices while playing, it shuts off completely even with the sustain on, this issue is not present in the dual feature of the psr series, it could be better if the sound goes on until the sustain pedal is lifted or a gradual fading out of volume.
Thanks for this Tony. I have CK88 and agree with all you say. I have never attached a microphone but would be interested to know what the effects can do to the voice. For example, can the effects make the voice sound ok for end of Mr Blue Sky? Perhaps an idea for future video.
Hi sir first thank you for doing this job. Your channel is straight upto the point. I am a medical student and planning to learn piano as a hobby. Which keyboard would you recommend under 150dollars as i must give a try first
The least expensive keyboards I would recommend are the Yamaha PSR-E373: ua-cam.com/video/3H6sObJCb4E/v-deo.html And the Casiotone CT-S1: ua-cam.com/video/9Yvop3nO00M/v-deo.html Thanks for checking out the channel, feel free to subscribe
Pretty interested now. Had it (88) since october and pretty satisfied with it .. mostly. Rotary is not my taste but I have a styrmon mobius. Oversrive and distortion are pretty bad through the Board and rhodes is weak. I mostly use the hammond and s700 and then occasuonally the rhodes... For anthing else (strings etc) is better to just jump into the daw... So I like it but I am still reeeeeally curious how the yc 88 and its organs /fm organs would sound through my strymon bigsky and strymon volante. And the rhodes would interest me a lot... Again, for synths I have retrolouge and others in cubase
Here’s a link to my review which will have links to the battery - make sure the link takes you to the correct one (the video will explain the specs) Talentcell Battery Review ua-cam.com/video/hhrLDeLCaTg/v-deo.html
Thanks for this review!!! Have you ever played The Roland Juno DS. Unfortunately my mic function on my Ew425 quit working about 7 months after purchase. Have you had any issues with your ew425?
I've only played the Juno briefly in store; no problem with my mic at all. Are you sure the gain knob is up, and that you are using a TS cable (one stripe) not TRS (2 stripes)? The mic won't work with a TRS cable. Thanks for checking out the channel, feel free to subscribe
I actually didn't know there was a difference...lol. I looked, and mine is the one strip one. I dropped it off last night with a tech. Hopefully it's fixable. Thanks for the info.
Hey, I've had the CK88 for over a year now and overall I think it's a great stage keyboard for an affordable price. One issue I've noticed is that when you have more than one sound playing at once, especially if some have effects put on, or slower attack etc. they don't fade out nice and slow, but pretty abruptly. For example, I've made a preset with a bright piano, and analog synth and organ as a background layer. No matter what I do, when I play and hold a chord, piano sound starts disappearing literally note for note (as you would turn it off) and it's really annoying to listen to. Now, I don't know if it has something to do with a polyphony or if it's a software thing (could Yamaha even release an update in this case?), but has anyone else had similar issues?
Do you have a custom decay or cutoff applied to the piano channel by any chance? If you just play the piano by itself on the default 001 live set does it still behave that way? I'm wondering if when you included the analog synth if maybe the cutoff setting for the synth is also getting applied to the piano channel . . . Hope you can get it sorted out! Thanks for checking out the channel, feel free to subscribe
Yamaha makes good products, but yeah the music stand thing is odd.. I guess the company expects us to not need a music stand or to buy a music stand, the kind with legs'
Yeah it’s a strange thing for them to mess up but; they are awesome so we’ll let them get away with this one ;). Thanks for checking out the channel feel free to subscribe
yea the music rest is absurd and expensive. i took a while to get into this keyboard and may have a problem with the naming of new saved sounds as the last time i went in there all the keyboard would do was aaaaaaaa.. hope that doesn't happen next time i use that feature.. my go to keyboard for the past 2 decades has been the Yamaha p 80 midi to a nano piano.. there's a electric piano sound on the p80 i used a lot that isn't createable on the ck 88 which is disappointing.. over all the ck88 is lighter and at 74 that's helpful but like you said the case is not worth it and wish i had know that..
Not only is the rest $$$ it doesn’t work well - I bought an iPad holder that clamps on to my keyboard stand works great. Thanks for checking out the channel feel free to subscribe
I’ve been looking at the dgx 670 and the ck88. Do you feel like the ck88 is worth the extra? There seems to be a lot of extra functionality with 88 and it’s built for gigging. I’d mostly use at home. Thx for your videos! Very thorough.
If you’re just going to be using it at home the DGX is probably a better bet if you’re going to use the extra features it has (multi track recording, accompaniment etc) and it costs way less. The CK is really only worth it for gigging. In case you haven’t seen my DGX review here is a link: Yamaha DGX-670 Review ua-cam.com/video/QzijMbsfgm8/v-deo.html Thanks for checking out the channel feel free to subscribe
Thanks for the follow-up review Tony. Just wondering if you’ve ever run out of polyphony when layering 3 sounds? 128 notes seems a bit stingy when you consider it comes down to 42 notes with 3 layers.
@@tally2312 The CK88 is totally for the band/gigging side; when I want to relax or just go play something else I go to the DGX. Also if I'm trying to work out a rhythm feel I will go to the DGX so I can use the built in accompaniment to practice with. If I ever find time to do any recording I would probably do it with the DGX as well.
Hey, I have an fp-30x for a while and thinking about upgrading to the CK88. However, while in almost every aspect I really liked the ck88 when I tried it, the sounds - particularly the piano ones - felt somewhat weak compared to the ones on my Roland, particularly on the low end... I know there is an eq on board but I'm not sure it has the same impact. What are your observations on that?
Sounds (like action) are pretty personal; I prefer the CK88 sounds to the Roland, but Yamaha sounds are always brighter and have less low end (which I prefer). But there are so many effects and EQ etc on the CK I have to think you could improve the sound to your liking (I never spent much time editing any of that to be honest). Hope that helps! Thanks for checking out the channel, feel free to subscribe
Actually i have a few questions about the keys of ck61. From my experience in my local shop, most of the black keys make this rather plasticcy noise. So is this normal for this keyboard and will it affect the life expectancy of the keys?
My CK61’s keys made zero noise maybe the display model you’re looking at is defective (or has been abused on display). Thanks for checking out the channel feel free to subscribe
Would love to - stores where I live don't carry Kawaii so I've never actually seen one before, but would love to review. Thanks for checking out the channel, feel free to subscribe
thanx for the video, Tony ! these speakers (especially if volume boosted) , do they clip or boom at all ? i mean is the sound coming out clear and crisp at the volume given (ok , always considering their power and the nature of downward facing ...) ?
No joke--I was considering this keyboard again, and wondered about reliability. So I started a search, and thought, I bet Piano Tone would know, I wish he would post--AND HERE IT IS!
Haha glad to post what you were after! The CK series are fantastic keyboards, highly recommend!
Thank you so much for this insightful information. Really a treasure of feedback
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Fantastic review Tony! Thank you so much! I've been using a MODX8 at home to record for a while which I really love. And also an older MOX8 at church. Looking to replace the older church one because of issues and was thinking of changing out for the MODX8+ but just came across the CK88 at the store. Am really impressed with how easy it seems to adjust just like you were saying in your review and the great feel and sound. And for sharing with other players who aren't as technical, it really seems like a great way to go. Your review really helped with more insight into many of the great features. From what I can tell it has much of the same amazing Yamaha piano sound as the MODX8 which I fell in love with a while back so I think this is the one!
Thanks so much glad you found it helpful! The CK series really are amazing. Thanks for checking out the channel, feel free to subscribe
the CK 61 is so great and easy to use i sold my Nord Stage 3. I didn't buy it to replace the stage 3 i just needed something portable. and now I'm looking at buying the 88. It is the absolute most powerful intuitive fun keyboard/synth any body has been able to buy in the 40 years i've been noodling on synths, and rhodes. $1200 for the CK61 is unbelievable. You are right every patch sounds great. The layout is spectacular, and you don't need a manual to learn anything. The mic in is a bit goofy. and no music stand is really dumb. A separate slider on the surface for the mic input volume would be great. Sold the Nord stage 3 for $4500, i can buy 2 CK88's for that price and have much more fun IMO. instantly gratifying keyboard. ... Also, consider all your fav pro players doing huge live concert gigs over the years, from the 70s to present, the CK could easily fit the bill for almost everything anyone would need.
Well said totally agree! The mic in is super useful for practice, or if you're busking or something; I never used it with my band but it does have its uses.
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If you look around you might be able to find one cheaper. I got my CK61 in excellent condition for $800 plus tax
@@raul0ca Nice!
Excellent review. It's extremely useful knowing about the little niggles in advance. The music stand issue, the protective case, the power cable, the downward firing speakers. These are all things that really befuddle me too. I know keeping costs down in production is an issue, but as a prospective buyer it makes me think what else have Yamaha not thought about in their design.
Anyway, great review, very useful information. Thanks 👍
Thanks so much, glad the review was helpful. And thanks for checking out the channel, feel free to subscribe
Another helpful review. I bought the Yamaha CK88 a few weeks back. I already have the Yamaha MODX8 which I bought 3 years ago plus a Yamaha P121 . Initial thoughts are that the GHS action in the CL88 on the model I have is slightly more sluggish. Hopefully playing it in will loosen things a little in time. I am finding though that the main piano tones sound so much better on the CK compared to the MODX. The velocity settings..key to sound relationship is perfect. Haven't gigged with it yet but will soon for commercial gigs. ( Korg Liano is being delivered soon which will cover casual jams/open mics). All the best. Stevie
Thanks again! And wow that’s awesome - you’re like me lol (more keyboards!!!!). I’ve never gotten much into the MOD line myself (should test one out one day). I was playing the Liano in a store a couple days ago and it continues to impress me.
@PianoTone The CK line is so much more intuitive for a live player. I think the menu diving on the MODx just spoils the experience. Plus there's something weird about the key velocity settings on the pianos. Anyway the more keyboards the better! Cheers and thanks again. 😁
Another great video Tony! Love your channel. I always look forward to hearing about your insights and experiences.
I gig w the CK61. The 88 has the nice GHS and the advantages of the extra keys BUT many places we play require lugging our gear a long ways and/or up stairs and around tight spaces. In the end the smaller and lighter CK61 has been worth the tradeoffs for me. But I would be interested in moving up to a CK73/76 if that ever becomes available.
Keep rocking! And keep posting!
Yeah the 61 is crazy portable! I’m actually switching my setup soon to a lighter 2 keyboard setup - I’m playing 90% organ now, 10% piano/EP/other with my band (if I’d known that I’d have kept my CK61 lol even through the 88 is fabulous for the little piano I’m playing). I have a Hammond M-Solo coming (49 key 2nd tier board only 8 lbs with the newest Hammond engine - pretty excited). Given my old bones will be hauling 2 now and I play so little piano I may be downgrading my CK to a Numa Compact - semi weighted piano keys and only 15 lbs).
As a working musician I've found less is more.
Velcro is amazing, try some. And I am glad you went with the 88, the action is great.
The action is awesome the GHS has always been my favourite.
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@12:28 I've recently finally saw both CK61 and CK88 in my local shop, and I have to agree. From the player's position, it's actually weaker than the PSR-E373's 2.5Wx2 speakers, and comparing it to the DGX-670's 6Wx2 (also in shop) makes the importance of speaker placement clear.
The main benefit of downwards or rearward facing speakers is likely to be the audience, not the player. The DGX is already loud enough I turn it down to below 50% when the accompaniment gets busy - with the CK I can be perfectly comfortable with max volume. Hopefully the audience is enjoying it, even if the player isn't.
My DGX speakers are fabulous - I think part of that is also the big heavy case they are sitting in. To be honest with my band, my speakers are always just off now anyways.
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I'd like to provide a little bit of insight into the speaker design of the Yamaha CK88 and Yamaha P125. Both keyboards have downward-facing speakers. The CK88 has oval (12 cm x 6 cm) speakers, and the P125 has (circular) 12 cm speakers. The area of a 12 cm (diameter) circle is 113 squared cm, and the area of a (12 cm x 6 cm) ellipse is 56 squared cm. So, basically, the CK88 speakers move half the volume of air than the P125 speakers at the same wattage.
A common design of speaker systems in digital pianos is that speakers are not always enclosed in boxes. For example, the Yamaha P125, Roland FP30X, and Kawai ES120 have speakers inside the digital piano case, but they don't have individual boxes. Other models, such as the Yamaha DGX670, Yamaha P525, Yamaha P-S500, Roland FP60X/90X, and Kawai ES520/920 have speakers in "ported" boxes (a hole with a pipe inside the box to enhance the low frequency response). Each design has its advantages and drawbacks: placing a speaker without any box inside the digital piano case allows the back wave of the speaker to fill the cabinet with sound, for a more natural piano tone... a bit similar to open-back guitar speaker cabinets. Ported designs provide a tighter, more accurate sound, better bass response, but at the expense of a more expansive natural sound, somehow similar to a closed-back guitar speaker cabinet. Oftentimes, both approaches are mixed into the design of some digital pianos, such as the Yamaha Clavinova CLP-745, which has 16 cm downward-facing woofers (no box) and 8 cm speakers contained in individual boxes facing the player.
When speakers are not contained in individual boxes, the sound fills the entire cabinet and leaks through any hole. In the case of the Yamaha P125, the sound comes not only from the speakers facing downward, but also from the keyboard itself! Do the following experiment: play a demo song on the P125 and cover the keyboard (without covering the speakers) with a thick blanket... the sound becomes very muted. This is because the separation between the keys allow sound to disperse, and this is one of the most important sources of sound in models such as the P125, FP30X, and ES120. While these models may have "sound ports" (for example, the P125 has a number of holes on the back), the separation between the keys is arguably the most important source of sound dispersion, in conjunction with the speaker holes.
The CK88 has the smaller speakers located on the back of the case, whereas the P125 has the speakers under the keyboard. This allows more sound to leak out directly through the keyboard, where the CK88 speakers have the top plastic panel over them. While sound can still get out through the CK88 keyboard, it must do so using a less direct pathway.
In addition, the P125 has two big holes on top of its case. You might think these are "speaker" holes... they are not. There are no speakers there: the sound comes indirectly from the main 12 cm downward-facing speakers. The CK88 doesn't have any dedicated holes on top. This means the P125 has more ways to allow sound to come out of the case.
The P125 has two tweeters on top, located toward the inner portion of the "speaker" holes, but their effect is minimal for piano sounds. In fact, if you cover the tweeters completely, the piano sound is almost not affected at all. You lose a bit of the brilliance, but not that much. The tweeters are much more important when using the built-in drum patterns, since drums easily reach the 20K hertz, whereas piano sounds are pretty much done around 6K-7K hertz for all practical purposes (this can be easily shown using digital filters in piano recordings), and even less (around 3K hertz) for warm piano samples. In other words, the 12 cm speakers handle most of the piano sound by themselves. This is why the Roland FP30X and Kawai ES120 can get away with not having dedicated tweeters. Or the P45/P143 for that matter.
To summarize: both the CK88 and P125 have downward-facing speakers in box-less designs that fill the entire cabinet with sound. However, the P125 has, at least in design, some advantages:
1) upward-facing holes that allow the downward-facing speakers to breathe
2) tweeters on top, but they are not that relevant for piano sounds, particularly for people in the audience. The 12 cm full range speakers can easily handle most piano frequencies, within reasonable understanding of the term "full range" (more like 100 Hz - 10K Hz).
3) 12 cm speakers move twice more air than oval 12 cm x 6 cm speakers, which may impact overall volume and roundness of tone. They might also have a higher sensitivity (how loud they play at 1 watt, typically measured at 1 kHz), as larger full range speakers usually have higher sensitivity values than smaller ones.
4) 12 cm speakers are located under the keyboard, which serves as one of the most important sources of sound dispersion.
Covering the keyboard with a thick blanket and playing a demo song reveals how important the keyboard slots are: you will get a very dull, tiny sound. The CK88 speakers are located towards the back, which makes more difficult for the sound to reach your ears via the keyboard slots.
Wow! Thanks for sharing all of that info, super helpful and useful!!!
@@PianoTone Thanks a lot!
@@Instrumental-CoversGreat to see you here Instrumental-Covers. I watch Piano Tone much more now than Merriam! I was just missing you 😊
@@Instrumental-Covers great info! I am curious if you have any knowledge of the Korg EK50 vs the louder version the EK50L. Supposedly same speakers/wattage etc. Do you know what about the design of the EK50L yields more volume?
@@jeffeason3599 Thanks! The Korg EK-50L has speakers of a higher sensitivity than the EK-50. Specifically, it has a sensitivity of 94 dB (measured providing 1 watt at 1 meter of distance from the speaker), typically playing a 1 kHz sine wave tone. Korg states that the EK-50L has two times the volume feeling of the EK-50. An increase of about 10 dB is required before the sound subjectively appears to be twice as loud, which suggests that the speakers of the EK-50 must have a sensitivity of about 84 dB, which is in the low range for a 12 cm speaker (being 87 dB - 90 dB more common). A 12 cm speaker with 94 dB sensitivity is quite rare, that's a pretty high sensitivity for such a small driver. That sensitivity is expected in a professional midrange driver (even 99 dB), but those speakers are full range with a whizzer cone... so, that is impressive. There is usually an inverse correlation between sensitivity and bass extension: more sensitivity means it plays louder with the same wattage but is produces less bass.
The 'boom' is a digital artifact from the sound engine. There is a power-up default value in software, and then when the signal chain starts up, establishes a new value. The change in value is both fast and large, which is effectively an impulse; the effect chain operates on that data which propagates through, causing that 'effect.' [You'll see this a fair bit in the effects world]
Yeah it only happens if reverb is enabled for the mic input.
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Preciate the detailed review. Idk why yamaha wont change that plug its like the weakness on many keyboards. As far as the speakers i think they did perfect... they're there but you cant see them! Looks better to me.. Im super excited for mine im coming from the mm series I got in 08 so its been a while since i had a new board.
Congrats which one did you get the 61 or 88? Hope it arrives soon!
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@PianoTone Preciate it.. I went with the 88, an excellent condition from the guitar center for 1100. It actually delivers to my local Guitar center today. Question: Have you tried different expression pedals? I was trying to save a buck on the Nektar pedal on Amazon. I'm not sure if it would be compatible.
@@streetzfpv Any model will likely work fine; I've been using those cheap M-Audio ones and they're ok (they do the job) I tried the Yamaha one and it's definitely sturdier and better built but it doesn't perform any better, and it's bulkier and heavier to carry around. To be honest I'm still looking for the "right one"; the Roland EV-5 is one I want to try - it looks sturdy but it isn't big and clunky. I tried a stufiologic one off amazon and omg it was massive so I sent it back. :Let me know how the Nektar one is if you get it!
Thanks😊
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Very helpful review, many thanks 🙏
Thanks alot! And thanks for checking out the channel, feel free to subscribe
Tony, I know your musical life is very busy and just hoping that you will be able to find the time to produce some more of your exceptional DGX670 videos.
Yes I know I’ve been lacking in DGX videos recently; joining a blues band is consuming a LOT of time! But I do still have and use my trusty DGX so there will be more videos coming. Thanks so much for following the channel!
@@PianoTone Tony, thanks for your quick reply and I know your other DGX670 subscribers and I will be waiting for your next video with great anticipation.
The MODX/MODX+ 6 also has a similar soft case as the CK61, and the weight is just fine when used as a backpack. These are instruments meant to be moved. It only misses internal speakers of course.
Cool! That's a line of Yamahas that I've never tried out before. I don't play synth at all, but I hear these are great general use stage keyboards too.
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Just bought the 61 and a power bank. Now to tweak some sounds.
Nice!!!! Have fun! And thanks for checking out the channel feel free to subscribe
Tony, as you said Hammond digital organ have a standard octave width
(XK-4: Octave width: 16.5cm; white key length ~13.5cm)
Yamaha YC-61 on the other hand has:
Octave width: 16.1cm; white key length ~14cm
I like YC-61 very much.
Michael
Awesome thanks for sharing that!
@@PianoToneGuess what, Tony … I have returned YC61 and will be either getting CK61 or new Arturia KeyLab 61 MKIII.
Why, you may ask 😊
I am getting more and more interested in pipe and church organs (I have easy and regular access to one or even two) and I felt that I do not need all the features of YC61 when I mostly use it with pipe organ VSTs
I even considered Yamaha Reface YC (just for my pedalboard). I also have Yamaha P-45
Michael
@@mfurman I reviewed the Keylab Essential MK3 and it's MIDI capabilities are awesome (comes with Analog Lab V which is a huge MIDI bank worth about the same as the keyboard), but the key action wasn't the greatest: ua-cam.com/video/kFz4ymOyfus/v-deo.html
Good luck in your search!
@@PianoToneI will may be getting new Keylab (not Essential) MKIII that is coming out in April 😊
@@mfurman Cool! Supposed to be a much nicer keybed than the Essential
Hi Tony, I watched this great video again and I find it very helpful.
By the way, do you know that Hammond organ may have:
White Key Length: 13 cm
Width: 2.1 cm
This makes the octave width even less than 15 cm
Thank you for your CK61 related videos.
Michael
Thanks! The CK series really is very well designed, they are awesome overall instruments.
Octave width on both the M-Solo and SK Pro are 165mm (I always measure from left of C to right of B ); and the keys are a bit shorter than most pianos they are 13.5 cm. Measuring the white key alone is 2.2-2.3 ish. There is a TINY bit more space between keys on Hammonds than pianos
@@PianoTone Thank you Tony!
Which one key action you like more for piano sounds playing?
Yamaha CK61
or
Casio CT-S1
?
Thank you!
The CK61 is a whole different league than the CT-S1; far better sounds, features and both have an action that feels almost semi weighted so CK61 all the way. Thanks for checking out the channel feel free to subscribe
Thanks so much for your in depth reviews!! There is a treasure trove of information on the CK series.
Question: I seem to remember you saying something about the official case for the CK88. Do you have an opinion? I can get the official case for about $170 (Amazon prime day) or a generic 88 note soft wheeled bag for $80. Just wondering if the extra money is worth it. Thanks!
Thanks so much, glad you like the reviews! To be fair I haven't SEEN the custom case, but the CK88 is a pretty generic size, so lots of non Yamaha cases will be just fine and much cheaper. The case for the CK61 is $$ as well, but there aren't any generic cases that wouldn't be way too big for it, so I do recommend that one.
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Wow, such a quick reply! Thanks for the advice. I'm your newest subscriber. 😁
Hi, would you say that CK-88 is the “next step” for those who have a P-125? Understand that “next step” means to experiment/play with sounds and effects without losing the escense of P-125.
I’m thinking to replace my P-125 for a CK-88.
Your videos and blog has been very helpful.
I would say either the CK-88 or the DGX-670 is a "next step" but in 2 slightly different directions. If your goal is to perform, play live, or even just go have fun jamming with other musicians, then the CK-88 would the right next step. If you don't see yourself ever moving your keyboard around (taking it to jam sessions, gigging etc) and you not only want to experiment with sounds and effects but also with playing along with rhythms and accompaniment, and making recordings the DGX-670 might be a better choice.
They both have improved sounds over the P-125 (as well as way more sounds), and both share the exact same keyboard action; the CK-88 is built to be a stage instrument (so LOTS of physical controls to work with sounds and effects) and the DGX is big heavy and bulky and meant to be a home instrument (lots of functionality as well but much of it deeply nested in menus you have to work through). Here is my review on the DGX: ua-cam.com/video/QzijMbsfgm8/v-deo.html
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My complaint is on the transition of the live sets, when i change a live set while a string for example is sustained, the volume either goes loud or softer.
Another is when turning off the voices while playing, it shuts off completely even with the sustain on, this issue is not present in the dual feature of the psr series, it could be better if the sound goes on until the sustain pedal is lifted or a gradual fading out of volume.
Thanks for sharing that!
Thanks for this Tony. I have CK88 and agree with all you say. I have never attached a microphone but would be interested to know what the effects can do to the voice. For example, can the effects make the voice sound ok for end of Mr Blue Sky? Perhaps an idea for future video.
To be honest I’ve never used anything but the reverb … maybe …
My biggest complaint is the CK61 keybed is soo good it makes my classic American synth keybeds feel cheap
People either love or hate the CK61 keybed; I really like it myself as well.
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Hi sir first thank you for doing this job. Your channel is straight upto the point. I am a medical student and planning to learn piano as a hobby. Which keyboard would you recommend under 150dollars as i must give a try first
The least expensive keyboards I would recommend are the Yamaha PSR-E373: ua-cam.com/video/3H6sObJCb4E/v-deo.html
And the Casiotone CT-S1:
ua-cam.com/video/9Yvop3nO00M/v-deo.html
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@@PianoTone thanks a ton 🙏
@@PianoTone sir Casio CTS1 vs CTX 700 ? Between which one would you recommend
Pretty interested now. Had it (88) since october and pretty satisfied with it .. mostly. Rotary is not my taste but I have a styrmon mobius.
Oversrive and distortion are pretty bad through the Board
and rhodes is weak.
I mostly use the hammond and s700 and then occasuonally the rhodes...
For anthing else (strings etc) is better to just jump into the daw...
So I like it but I am still reeeeeally curious how the yc 88 and its organs /fm organs would sound through my strymon bigsky and strymon volante.
And the rhodes would interest me a lot...
Again, for synths I have retrolouge and others in cubase
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@@PianoTone ?
@@marcusstrymon693 Hey there; what's up?
Hi Tony! I don't see the battery link described in the video. Would you happen to have a link somewhere for it?
Here’s a link to my review which will have links to the battery - make sure the link takes you to the correct one (the video will explain the specs)
Talentcell Battery Review
ua-cam.com/video/hhrLDeLCaTg/v-deo.html
Thanks for this review!!! Have you ever played The Roland Juno DS. Unfortunately my mic function on my Ew425 quit working about 7 months after purchase. Have you had any issues with your ew425?
I've only played the Juno briefly in store; no problem with my mic at all. Are you sure the gain knob is up, and that you are using a TS cable (one stripe) not TRS (2 stripes)? The mic won't work with a TRS cable.
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I actually didn't know there was a difference...lol. I looked, and mine is the one strip one. I dropped it off last night with a tech. Hopefully it's fixable. Thanks for the info.
Great job but how about wooly bully watch it now 😮
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Hey, I've had the CK88 for over a year now and overall I think it's a great stage keyboard for an affordable price. One issue I've noticed is that when you have more than one sound playing at once, especially if some have effects put on, or slower attack etc. they don't fade out nice and slow, but pretty abruptly. For example, I've made a preset with a bright piano, and analog synth and organ as a background layer. No matter what I do, when I play and hold a chord, piano sound starts disappearing literally note for note (as you would turn it off) and it's really annoying to listen to. Now, I don't know if it has something to do with a polyphony or if it's a software thing (could Yamaha even release an update in this case?), but has anyone else had similar issues?
Do you have a custom decay or cutoff applied to the piano channel by any chance? If you just play the piano by itself on the default 001 live set does it still behave that way? I'm wondering if when you included the analog synth if maybe the cutoff setting for the synth is also getting applied to the piano channel . . . Hope you can get it sorted out!
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Yamaha makes good products, but yeah the music stand thing is odd.. I guess the company expects us to not need a music stand or to buy a music stand, the kind with legs'
Yeah it’s a strange thing for them to mess up but; they are awesome so we’ll let them get away with this one ;).
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yea the music rest is absurd and expensive. i took a while to get into this keyboard and may have a problem with the naming of new saved sounds as the last time i went in there all the keyboard would do was aaaaaaaa.. hope that doesn't happen next time i use that feature.. my go to keyboard for the past 2 decades has been the Yamaha p 80 midi to a nano piano.. there's a electric piano sound on the p80 i used a lot that isn't createable on the ck 88 which is disappointing.. over all the ck88 is lighter and at 74 that's helpful but like you said the case is not worth it and wish i had know that..
Not only is the rest $$$ it doesn’t work well - I bought an iPad holder that clamps on to my keyboard stand works great.
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I’ve been looking at the dgx 670 and the ck88. Do you feel like the ck88 is worth the extra? There seems to be a lot of extra functionality with 88 and it’s built for gigging. I’d mostly use at home. Thx for your videos! Very thorough.
If you’re just going to be using it at home the DGX is probably a better bet if you’re going to use the extra features it has (multi track recording, accompaniment etc) and it costs way less. The CK is really only worth it for gigging.
In case you haven’t seen my DGX review here is a link:
Yamaha DGX-670 Review
ua-cam.com/video/QzijMbsfgm8/v-deo.html
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Thanks for the follow-up review Tony. Just wondering if you’ve ever run out of polyphony when layering 3 sounds? 128 notes seems a bit stingy when you consider it comes down to 42 notes with 3 layers.
@@PianoTone thanks again. Are you still using your dgx670, or has the ck88 taken it’s place?
@@brickmissing8295 Not that I've noticed; I don't play super complicated fast stuff though :)
@@tally2312 The CK88 is totally for the band/gigging side; when I want to relax or just go play something else I go to the DGX. Also if I'm trying to work out a rhythm feel I will go to the DGX so I can use the built in accompaniment to practice with. If I ever find time to do any recording I would probably do it with the DGX as well.
Hey, I have an fp-30x for a while and thinking about upgrading to the CK88. However, while in almost every aspect I really liked the ck88 when I tried it, the sounds - particularly the piano ones - felt somewhat weak compared to the ones on my Roland, particularly on the low end... I know there is an eq on board but I'm not sure it has the same impact. What are your observations on that?
Sounds (like action) are pretty personal; I prefer the CK88 sounds to the Roland, but Yamaha sounds are always brighter and have less low end (which I prefer). But there are so many effects and EQ etc on the CK I have to think you could improve the sound to your liking (I never spent much time editing any of that to be honest).
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Actually i have a few questions about the keys of ck61. From my experience in my local shop, most of the black keys make this rather plasticcy noise. So is this normal for this keyboard and will it affect the life expectancy of the keys?
My CK61’s keys made zero noise maybe the display model you’re looking at is defective (or has been abused on display).
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Please review Kawai Es120 if you can!
Would love to - stores where I live don't carry Kawaii so I've never actually seen one before, but would love to review.
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12:51 u mentioned a lithium battery video can I have the link thank you for your info
Sure thing - they're made by Talentcell: ua-cam.com/video/hhrLDeLCaTg/v-deo.html
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What's the prise of this keyboard?
Currently sells for about $1000 USD geni.us/ZdDw6S
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thanx for the video, Tony ! these speakers (especially if volume boosted) , do they clip or boom at all ? i mean is the sound coming out clear and crisp at the volume given (ok , always considering their power and the nature of downward facing ...) ?
To be honest I’ve never had my overall volume over about 60% (I live in an apartment and at band practices/gigs I can’t hear them at all anyways).