The Batman Should Have Been A Catwoman Movie
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- Опубліковано 5 тра 2022
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Fun Fact, I had to brighten some of these scenes because this movie is so gd literally dark
that's hilarious. it makes sense though, you could barely see parts of it in the literal theater
I had to adjust SO MANY settings on my TV to get it right
I hate how dark movies and TV is these days. Literally.
@@neverhowever3231 😂😂😂😂 thank God I didn't pay for that movie lmao they gave it the Game of Thrones treatment 😂
Omg so true, I could barely make out what anything was if the stream quality dropped
I think the part with the charity being abused showed that Bruce Wayne actually DID have more power to affect change, not that he didn't. If he'd been paying attention, and not saying he doesn't have time for accountants, he might have found and undone this corruption as Bruce Wayne and had way more impact than he does beating the crap out of teenagers at train stations. Batman felt like a cop whose has the best intentions but all the wrong training.
If we can learn anything from real life is that billionaire charity won't save us.
I think the flim intends to put Bruce between a rock and a hard place. Throwing money at a problem or targeting criminals won't necessarily solve problems.
@@jamesgomez9151 well, he could've certainly get a far better handle on his inherited family fortune to, at the very least, make sure the charity work his father started, didn't turned to crap.
Instead, this sad rich boy completely disregards that part of his so-called "family legacy", and just wants to keep punching people.
it's not about throwing money at the problem. It's about, at the very least, ameliorating some of the worst effects of city-wide corruption for the downtrodden.
but nah. drug addicts are yucky, and gang teens must be beaten up. that's what this batman is not-so-subtly shown to believe in.
@@jamesgomez9151 charity doesn’t exist, rich white people haven’t done shit besides exploit
Well and Alfred admits this in the hospital scene- he did just train Bruce not guide and nirture
Okay, but the thing about the kiss scene is that it's not strictly romantic. Selina, in true femme fatale fashion, was trying to leverage Bruce into finding Kensey, the Penguin goon who moonlighted as a cop, to avenge Annika.
Funny enough, the scene where Batman stops her from killing Falcone is actually the part I consider the height of their romance in this movie; "You've paid enough." It wasn't so much Batman imposing his morals as it was Selina realizing the hollowness of vengeance, before Bruce even did. It was also one of the few instances where Bruce's repressed but deep empathy shined through.
I think in hindsight (and because I fucking love this movie and it has lived rent free in my head since I saw it) is that the romance makes sense in that it's only a seedling starting to sprout roots. Between everything else going on in the movie with the Bat and the Cat, they don't really have time for much else besides helping each other and sparks of attraction. In true Noir fashion, Selina ends the movie free from her past, but also "the one that got away" (potential sequels aside).
also a fair take
Yes loved that line! And was gonna say I appreciated the implications and didn’t read it as taking her agency (although I do agree that happens in movie from Batman a lot)
Yes!!! People are not getting it
I agree him stopping her from killing Falcone worked, and I think it would have landed even better if there had been a time earlier in the movie where they disagreed and Selena was proven right. I can even see Selena being the one to put the breaks on Batman's violence, perhaps even connected to the class issue where Batman is beating up on some underlings and Selena has to remind him that they're just people who needed a job.
I also think she could have interacted really effectively with the Riddler. She could agree with him about the corruption in Gotham's elite, maybe she's even been working on gathering evidence about Gotham Renewal. But she could be the one who delivers the message to the audience about the Riddler's methods, she could be the one who explains how his plan to flood the city will ultimate just put poor people out of their homes and money in the hands of building companies / grift contracts / enable the elites to gentrify when they rebuild. There's an obvious Katrina analogy here to be made with the levees breaking and everyone hiding in the arena, it was kinda weird to me the movie didn't make that connection, and Selena would be the perfect character to do that.
That's not what I saw. I saw Batman taking the choice away from her by force, which rubbed me the wrong way. It told me that he hadn't heard a word she'd said about growing up poor in Gotham. He ignored her perspective, and made her submit to his.
I said this elsewhere, but I love that they made me believe, for the first time since justice league unlimited or the animated series, that this Batman would console a child who just lost their parents.
There’s an underlining compassion to Batman that everyone seems to disregard when adapting it.
It's I interesting that you mentioned most movies missing out on the empathetic side of batman, because one of the things I loved most about this movie is that this version feels the most likely to eventually lean into that. I really hope that the sequel does.
Ithought they were going this route until he started screaming “YOURE JUST A CRAZY SICK IN THE HEAD DUDE” after The Riddler opened up about his traumatic childhood in the orphanage.
@@pcapusso Because Riddler was showing Bruce a very uncomfortable mirror of what his own vengeance could become and what it was inspiring.
Plus, dude was a terminally online serial killer with an endgame of flooding Gotham Old Testament style. Even with his traumatic upbringing and targeting of corruption, it's pretty clear he at least deserves his delusions torn down.
@@pcapusso he had already killed and tortured multiple people by then, respectfully who cares how traumatic his childhood was
@@pcapusso I was more hoping he would offer some comfort to the boy who had just lost his father. A word, a gesture, even just a comforting smile. He had multiple opportunities
@@Nortarachanges I think he wanted to, but he doesnt know how yet
I think the deal with Riddler exposing the systemic issues is actually deliberate - we see that his methods go way too far at the end when he presumes that Gotham as a whole must be done away with and that even those who plead passionately for change cannot be trusted but at the same time I think this would be what inspires Batman to change and go beyond being a guy who beats the hell out of gang members.
The opening of the movie shows three crimes, and Batman can only respond to one - there's a robbery, a break-in/graffiti, and the gang beating. Batman is at the one where he's needed. The robber got away but nobody was hurt, the break-in was into an empty building, but Batman legitimately saved the man's life on the subway stop. His instincts do take him to where he's needed most, he just needs to adjust his sense of scope and Riddler's plot gets him to do that.
This is the beginning of stuff like the Wayne Foundation, which he actively oversees rather than the Recovery Fund which was unmanaged in the wake of Thomas Wayne's death and as such was looted. Also, the last half hour was incredibly important in my mind because that's where he goes from being only a rumor and a shadow to a thing that's known in Gotham by the people to be somebody who wants to help. We see him helping people survive the flooding and escape, and finally we see the kid being loaded into the helicopter specifically reach for him for comfort before being taken up.
Gotham trusts him, and he knows what really needs to be done to make it better now. This movie is about him really truly learning what's needed to accomplish The Batman Project.
My two cents on Riddler's motives and the 3rd act: I think he's intended to be somewhat reminiscent of "right wing populists". People who can see that the system is failing, but are too caught up in their own biases and hate to do anything truly constructive about it. Note that after Riddler kills the elite Gothamites he feels slighted by, his next target is a high profile, presumably progressive or at least liberal politician. Note the parallels between his online followers and QAnon, between his gunman minions and right-wing militias.
Following that logic, I’m pretty positive it’s no coincidence that his endgame is very reminiscent of the flood from the Old Testament. It’s not just the elite, the whole city that allowed his suffering has to be “cleansed”.
@@ohwowitsthatguy9154 yeah, the amount of times I've seen things online from right wing groups/Facebook comments about bombing or flooding places like New York and LA with all their residents there because the cities and people are depraved and unsalvageable...idk it read pretty real to me as the next step in thought for militia types like that.
@@ohwowitsthatguy9154 little riddler being a choir boy basically makes this canon at least to me
That's what makes a some villains so good. You can understand and even agree with them to a certain extent but not with their methods.
I interpreted it this way too
I so want a Catwoman movie now, and I love the point about 'don't kill them, just maim them in all these awful ways'--I get that some of it is comic book logic but after a while you have to acknowledge how much damage you're doing
Small nitpick on a point you made about The Riddler's plan towards the end of the film. I don't think The Riddlers goal never had "the little guys" in mind. He ran a police car into a funeral with a guy strapped with explosives at the wheel. I don't think he cared whether anyone got hurt and we know that at least a few people at the funeral were some of those little guys. His end goal is Vengeance and vengeance only. Batman at least has the greater goal of changing Gotham for the better (though he ultimately realizes that Vengeance won't achieve that).
I don't think the Riddler cared about incidental collateral damage, but to directly and purposely target random people seemed antithetical to his mindset. But you could be right, he was maybe just mad at the world and not just a few specific people
@@T1J just to add my two cents: let’s say that is the case. Let’s say Riddler was really just angry at the world and wanted to cause some chaos. ...
Wouldn’t that make his character seem less interesting?
Honestly I think the writers just failed all around at making the Riddler an actual character.
I think the biggest failing of this movie is the attempt to criticize the power fantasy that the character Batman embodies kinda falls flat when he doesn't seem to get punished for his behavior. He learns by the end that vengeance isn't a useful tool for creating change, since using vengeance only leads to collateral damage and wanton destruction (which I think was the point of Riddler's final plan), but other than the final moment when the Riddler goon repeats his words back at him, any chastising he receives from any of the characters don't seem to affect him in any way. He just keeps doing what he's doing until he decides, at the very end, to save people. To me, the movie felt like it was leading somewhere the studio didn't like, so they were told they had to have a big final climax like all the other superhero movies. It feels... almost unfinished, for lack of a better term. Like 3/4s of the movie is amazing, but the last 1/4 ends up fumbling the ball in a way that feels out of the blue, especially how Batman learns of the final plan. He doesn't figure it out, or find a way to foil the plan in progress, he's told in no uncertain terms what the plan was. On top of that, the flooding of the city felt weird to me, considering how, to my memory, they never even hint at the sea walls importance. Like, the movie never even tells us it's a port city. I was under the impression through the entire movie that the city was pretty much landlocked, but then it's revealed that destroying the seawall would flood the city. I had actually heard about the flooding before I saw the movie, so I just assumed the Riddler blew up a dam, since that made more sense to me than destroying a seawall.
Idk, I think the goons repeating his words back to him in the 3rd act did affect him. Hearing his own vengeance logic from a violent goon made him realize he didn't want to be vengeful/feared anymore, but rather that he'd fight for justice/the well-being of others. After listening to the goons, he jumps down to help rescue people and personally reaches out his hand as if to say 'I'm on your side. I don't want the people of Gotham to fear me anymore'.
@@rari7545 I agree with that part. I was saying aside from the goon moment, every other time he's chastised it doesn't feel like it affects him.
@Sean Locke That's true, especially when Catwoman called out his privilege. He seemed pretty unfazed lol
@@beancheesedip8337 In fairness, Bruce is pretty damn stubborn. His whole arc though the movie is getting over his denial that he may be hurting Gotham as much as he helps it, despite the plot repeatedly slapping him (both directly and indirectly) for it (people distrusting him, Alfred getting hospitalized, everything to do with his Dad, failing to stop some of the Riddler’s plots).
As much as it would be gratifying for Bruce to get thrown for a loop at a privilege comment, it ultimately makes more sense for him to realize “oh shit, some of this is my fault” after he looks at himself through a funhouse mirror after getting bashed over the head with said mirror a few times.
The movie was three hours long. He had the revelation towards the end of the film, presumably with the idea that we will see him acting on it in future stories
Hopefully now that The Batman was a success and Kravitz specifically got a ton of praise we'll get a spin off.
🤣🤣🤣 Nice dreams bro.
I thought there were actual considerations of a Catwoman spin-off movie
Ew
Great take! Glad I'm not the only felt that Batman-Catwoman kiss didn't make any sense. I'd love for the sequel to be The Catwoman. Give us the Penguin after that.
Agree!
The only take I saw that I kinda agree with was why did they have to get Colin Farrell and put that many prothestics on instead of just, you know, get someone (a good actor) that kinda already looks like that? hahahaha
I think the kiss made sense from the perspective of a woman trying to nurture a broken sad boy
@@alarcon99 that's not her characterization though, and doesn't really fit any conceivable Catwoman character
Yeees kiss was weird and dumb for that scene!
That would be lame and stupid
I think Selina's bisexuality was...ambiguous at best. Selina tells us this woman is her girlfriend, but the movie doesn't show us that. Zoe Kravitz's headcanon or interpretation does nothing for me in terms of feeling represented. Again, it's the kind of over-sanitized "representation" that ends up just saying nothing. Designed perfectly to collect praise for representation stateside and then be able to edit it out of the film for overseas markets. We didn't see her and her supposed girlfriend kiss or be affectionate together. It's hard to buy their love story as being genuine when she's making out with Batman just like days (hours?) after Annika's murder. I think they use the suggestion of bisexuality to 'cover' for another fridged girlfriend character whose only purpose was to fuel her partner's story. That that partner is also a woman doesn't improve the story. I take your points as to why her story might've worked on its own, as its own movie, but honestly I felt like this version of Catwoman belongs on a cutting room floor.
I agree, hence why I think it was a missed opportunity to tell an interesting and representative story
legit just realized they were supposed to be actual girlfriends and not just best friends. The movie really gave us nothing to go off of besides one line. Feel like this was done on purpose so people could interpret it whatever way they wanted, so general audiences could feel comfortable, and filmmakers could get brownie points for "representation" . You nailed it. So frustrating honestly. She doesn't even **spoilers** seem to be effected by her death too much even. The story just rolls on after that.
@@Ray03595 i personally dont think they were written to be GFs, that was just Zoe's interpretation. I never got that vibe in the movie because, as you said, there were no explicit romantic scenes (her calling her baby ig but I say things adjacent to that to my friends) and then making out with bats days after. Zack Snyder said that their supposed to have a mother-daughter sort of relationship, and thats honestly very reminiscent and accurate to the club/night scene, in which newbie girls are often taken under the wing of more experienced ones. This doesnt mean Selina cant still be Bi, its jsut their relationship just doesnt really make that much sense imo.
Completely agree. I fully thought she was intended to be straight and played as straight until I watched this video. I’m so tired of fake representation, I just want a real bi character.
@@dougthedonkey1805 well, just because the relationship she enters is heterosexual doesn’t necessarily mean she has to be, you know? Bi means attraction to both genders. Selina has been bisexual in the comics so its not like they just invented that for brownie points, but i’ll agree that her “relationship” with Anika seems tacked on to get extra representation points.
While I don't agree with this analysis at all. I do appreciate it. The first ten minutes of the film is like a masterclass on how to present Batman. I got chills so many times watching this movie. Every little detail I love about it. Robert Pattinson did fantastic job. I really like this interpretation of Bruce Wayne. The grungy sightly unkempt look he had. Definitely got the Kurt Cobain vibe and aesthetic they were going for. The whole cast was pure perfection. In my opinion this is the best Batman live action movie to date. It's unfortunate that you didn't feel the same. Nicely constructive video regardless.
But just as Kurt Cobain, there is a much more friendly and wholesome side to Batman, that the movie sadly didn't really show. I think you can argue that there are essentially two different Batmen: The gritty, ptsd fueled movie version and the worlds greatest detective, stoic comic version. Sometimes they overlap a little.
Exactly!👏👏
@@MangaMarjan And that's fine not everything needs to be wholesome
@@MangaMarjan Nah, we haven’t had a purely dark batman I’d be happy if we didn’t see some wholesome bs
i feel like the ending with the flood shows something we have never seen batman do in the big screen. he saves people like an actual super hero. i think the movie would be lesser without it.
I honestly don't get why so many people complain about the movie being 3 hours, like that is some ungodly absurd amount of time seen once a decade. Just a quick reminder that all 3 LoTR movies are 3 hours, and they all also have extended cuts, and they're all great. Because the run time only matters if it isn't used well and this film never really wasted any. I get that the ending can be off-putting given how Riddler suddenly wants to kill people, but that hardly affects whether or not meaningful things are happening on screen, and without it we wouldn't get the climax to Bat's story about realizing that he can do more for the city than just punch bad guys. The scene where he comforts the girl as she's pulled up by the helicopter is the most empathetic moment Batman's ever gotten in live action, and it doesn't exist without the extra run time.
Also for the record the reason Riddler planned to kill those people is because he actually doesn't care about justice, just revenge. Killing those corrupts cops and Falcone was done purely because they wronged the city and by extension him. Revealing their crimes was just a way to tear them down even more beyond death. If he really cared about fixing anything he would have supported Bella Real or at least done the ounce of research to realize she wasn't evil. But he doesn't care because it's not about fixing problems it's about hurting bad people, and since the city of Gotham turned a blind eye to poor orphans like him, the city of Gotham is bad and deserves to be hurt. This does make him 1 dimensional, kinda lame, but the point of the film is to show the difference between justice and vengeance and his characterization fits that. Fundamentally justice is about righting wrongs, and vengeance is about hurting people. Despite all the marketing, Batman isn't motivated by vengeance. He doesn't want to hurt people, he wants to stop people from getting hurt at all so nobody has to live through what he did.
A large part of the reason why the Riddler's plan to kill everyone at the election comes off as sudden and out of character is because people assumed that since Riddler is investigating these systemic problems and exposing criminals he most be secretly based or something. But in reality he was always 1 dimensionally cruel. Unmasking the truth is just his way of justifying what he really wants, and that's to sadistically kill people he doesn't like.
Anyway great movie, good video, here's to hoping for a Catwoman spin off. Murder bad, bats cool
I'm not saying that no movies should be 3 hours long, i'm saying that movies that don't need to be 3 hours long shouldn't be, and this one didn't need to be.
This movie was too long because they tried fitting a few too many subplots into the movie which were never really resolved or fleshed out enough..thus bogging down the overall pace of the film imo, so it was unnecessarily long.
Not everyone likes Lord of the Rings tho. Wolf of Wall Street and Endgame were good 3 hour flicks
And if they were going to do a Catwoman/Batman romance, they should actually DO it well. Not just "he was a boy, she was a girl, obviously they're gonna kiss!"
I also choose to believe they've never made a Catwoman movie before. (And great analysis!)
Honestly, this is a spot on take.
Also, I thought batman voyeuristically looking into a stranger's window to introduce catwoman was really weird and creepy.
I'm pretty sure that was on purpose. It's supposed to mirror the scene where Riddler stalks out the Mayor and his family earlier in the film, with the intention of highlighting how shady Batman's methods can be, while comparing him to the Riddler.
@@janakankanagarajah294 i never thought of it like that! I was always a bit annoyed by that scene, felt super male-gazey and was sort of an ink blot in what i considered an otherwise spotlessly good movie, but that interpretation might fix that. Ofc, it might be giving the writers too much credit, but I hope they'll improve on it in the next movies.
@@phoebesekine4783 There was a whole pattern of parallels between Batman and the Riddler, from his voyeurism to the unhinged ledgers to the mask itself. They were reflections of one another, that was the point. The Riddler was Batman's shadow, everything about him that was definitely not okay. He even harbored feelings that these people deserved what Riddler was doing to them. He certainly didn't have much sympathy for the Commissioner. That was all very much the intention of the story.
Also I love that Batman's plan for the first 2/3rds of this movie was just...to do exactly what the Riddler wanted lmao
kinda funny that the only way to catch the Riddler was to use the clues he provided in the exact way the Riddler wanted him to. Makes sense storywise but like... don't expect things to go well
world's richest greatest detective gets dunked on by a 4channer with some duct tape
LOL
This, lol. I was able to catch on to the "twist" pretty early because it was so awkward to watch him do exactly what this villain kept telling him to do. Why would he not think they were partners??
Yeah, I really enjoyed Robert Pattinson as Batman in this movie, but I think the movie would have benefitted from focusing on either Batman or cat woman instead of shoehorning them both in without much regard for making Selina important to the narrative.
"that is what I choose to believe". ... poor Halle Berry
I love Halle Berry, and she's beautiful in that movie. I watched it drunk, with friends, and it's reasonably entertaining if mocked and shouted at by lots of funny drunk people. But let's be real: it's not Catwoman. It's another character completely.
She knows what she did.
even though the movie has trouble digging into her character, I love this version of Catwoman. I totally agree, this should have been about her.
I love your review videos! I feel like so many people would either be like, "OMG representation!!!!" or "this representation is not perfect therefore Warner Bros have completely betrayed the queer/POC community." I really appreciated a nuanced take of "this was good, there were also some missed opportunities, this approach would have improved it."
The Penguin was so relatable in this movie, he just wanted to do some crime and be left alone
"They never done [a catwomen movie] before, I choose to believe that."
😂
Haven't watched the movie, but the lack of agency for Selena was also the main criticism I heard for Cinderella, starring Camila Cabello. She has problems, she has skills, but all her problems are solved by other people. Hopefully these criticisms reach the ears of producers soon!
Yes I totally agree with your analysis , I've been talking about this movie and these were my exact thoughts. I have a lot of issues with the way the movie treated Selina's sexuality and just the entire second half of the movie. They should have just gone all in and made it very explicit that 1. Selina is bisexual or lesbian and 2. that she wasn't just there to fill the batman cishet male fantasy, but in the end it didnt happen. Her sexuality was very subtle (my guess is deniability to be able to show it in more countries), only a few lines that would have been easily dubbed over. And in the second half she just turns into the stereotypical female character that is expected in action movies.
The second half of the movie was also just way weaker than the first part. The riddler's entire plan just falls apart, because why would he go from "Politicians sure are bad and corrupt and should be punished" to "lets kill an entire stadium filled with almost every person from gotham". I also have some issues in the way the movie just says "Yeah Thomas Wayne inadvertently caused the death of a reporter, but he didn't want him dead!". It would have been way more intresting for bruce wayne to have to deal with the fact that his father was a bad person and not the great guy as he thought he was. Talking about that it's weird that Alfred just says "you're mom was mentaly unstable so Thomas was in the right" and Bruce accepts this as a good reason for hiring the most powerfull criminal in the city to kidnap a reporter. The same Bruce Wayne who beats up people on the street for selling some weed. You can say that we as the viewer can see that Thomas Wayne was bad and that we should ourselves judge Thomas. But the information that we get just doesn't add anything to the story except that it makes Bruce feel inept. This movie was beautifull and I had a lot of fun watching it. But it had so much potential and momentum in the first part that it's actually makes me kind of sad to see what could have been.
Oh yes thanks for reminding me! I really thought that was just an easy way to allow Bruce to not have a troubling legacy to clean up.
As someone who loves this film..this is a really good take...
Yes please ignore reality
Couldn't agree more. think the movie played it very safe in the final third. Thomas actually ordering the hit would've been more impactful, but instead, it was all Falcone's fault, Thomas is still a good guy, lets just all forget about everything we learned essentially. Catwoman all of a sudden becomes the usual over-emotional female character. Somehow isn't able to beat Falcone by herself... then the final third in general just kind of anti-climatic even tho i like the message. Good fun watching this movie and I dont like to overanalyze movies too much but just things i noticed along the way. The final third just had this weird shift in character actions and storytelling that didn't feel right to everything that came before it.
Yeah, this Catwoman was strangely so much better than the main character, yet not allowed to shine.
The sexual tension between Catwoman and Batman has always been a thing, but it sounds like the movie failed to properly build that up.
It would have been the perfect movie to call "Batman and Catwoman" and have the story play out shifting between the two perspectives and delving deeper into Catwoman's character (while leaving alot more of the brooding on the cutting floor). It was such a perfect framework for that sort of movie, juxtaposing both of their relationships with power and the things they have to learn from eachother. I mean shit, it was 3 hours, definitely could have fit two fully fleshed out protagonist arcs in there.
Damn, I really liked The Batman, but that would have been such a better overall movie.
It’s like that Norm MacDonald bit,
When I was a kid Superman was not only a hero…but you know…he was a happy guy. Now every movie is like Batman depressed going who’s worse, me or the joker? And I’m like the joker. It’s not even that close!
It’s called THE BATMAN for a reason, not THE CATWOMAN.
You know, while watching this movie I felt police vibes like never before, and when he used this electricity artifact that cops use, it hit me, this is the wet dream of a cop. Narrow thinking of good vs bad people as all superheroe films are, but with a super cop, what a brain wash! I think I will not be able to enjoy a Batman movie again.
@Patch Chill Out I know 🥲
i personally dont think they were written to be GFs and that it was just Zoe's interpretation. I never got that vibe in the movie because there were no explicitly romantic scenes. I guess u could make a case for her calling her baby, but I say things adjacent to that to my friends. Some people, women especially, tend to be more affectionate in their platonic relationships. Not to mention she makes out with Bats like two days after her hypothetical GF is murdered. Zack Snyder said that theyre supposed to have a mother-daughter sort of relationship, and thats honestly very accurate to the club/night scene, in which newbie girls are often taken under the wing of more experienced ones. This doesnt mean Selina cant still be Bi, just that them having a romantic relationship wouldnt make sense with the context of how the story proceeds.
plus Selina literally said in reference to Annika, "she's just a kid." it might just be me but nobody says that about their romantic partner unless there's an inappropriate age gap involved
Much like Ann Hathaway, this Catwoman was painfully under utilized. As someone who loved every interpretation (except the one we don't talk about) she really deserves her own movies. Maybe this Catwoman will get her own spin-off?
It really sounds like the Riddler is depicted as a vigilante in a same sense Batman is a vigilante, but they needed to differentiate the two after getting too deep.
This movie is the definitive Batman. Bruce Wayne's progression in the new franchise is going to be next level.
Also, It's a nitpick. But couldn't they just give Penguin a cigar? They already have a made up drug anyway, what's the harm in showing some people smoking.
Literally articulated every single thought I had about the movie. In the theater when they kissed I was like huh?? The goddamn girl who died and her had even more build up
As american are so cynical and individualistic I would love to see more heroes having to actively work on their humanity and empathy. I can't imagine the majority of people now gaining superpowers taking the mantle for justice.
“That’s what I choose to believe.” Wisdom.
I've always wanted somebody to make two movies that tie together, like literally. There's maybe 20-30 minutes of shared scenes/footage (which could even be subtly different) and another hour or so of unique footage. Like with Pokemon games, but for movies!
This seems like it would be a good candidate
Have you watched "the last duel"? it's a Ridley Scott movie about an event told from three different perspectives, kind of what you say. Just one movie though, about 3 hours worth of it. Good movie too
Well now you've done it. I'm going to want more T1J movie reviews. This was at least as much fun as the movie. That's just me though.
I also think we fundamentally disagree on what characterizes batman, I agree that they need to show his emphatic side more overtly , however I would argue that he is empathetic in this film just in a early batman way. His whole nature and character is that of an 8 year old boy who can't leave the alley of his parents brutal murders. This drives him to his life purpose of serving Gotham albeit in this film interpreted and misguided through anger fueled by his trauma. He admits he doesn't think what hed doing is working and he would be right he later proves this to himself by the end if the film by inspiring his enemy. He needs to be more, he can be more, he can be a superhero but you have to start somewhere. Even in the animated realm with mask of the phantasm (which is a better film and I recommend it) has a similar theme to batman starting out but his trauma won't let him go. to were he's pleading at his parents to let him forget and it's physically painful to him and Kevin Conroy gives one of the best lines ever "I didn't think I would be happy." Only to watch himself loose everything again and devote himself to batman he's an overtly tragic character who functions at a higher plane of empathy because if he's duty to his city and I think the film the batman shows he has that capability hes just angry and young. I know you made fun of the nipples but the shoemocker films get a bit too much hate and are a good representation of the silver age version of batman and considering your love for the mcu I think you would enjoy them
I really enjoyed this video! I'd love to see more similar videos like these 😊
Why any guy would like Selena is obvious. Why Selena liked Batman, that's the real mystery.
Exactly.🤣🤣
dude we need a Catwoman version of the movie. see what happend when we where with batman. like her looking for clues for Annika. her point of view of batman.
Still haven't seen the Halle Berry Cat Woman movie, but I do believe Zoe Kravitz would do well in a Cat Woman stand alone movie. Yeah she was a sidekick to Batman in this movie, but I generally liked the way she was tied to the mob, worked well for the plot.
Yeah I kinda agree with this , I had a similar idea that Captain America: The Winter Soldier could've been a Black Widow movie
My issue with The Batman, it's that the film that clashes with social reality the most but doesn't go far enough, making things more jarring imo and he could've stopped being Batman and realizing how counterproductive it is and yeah while we're at it hey Gordon go defund your self, and Selina was lined up well within that framework.
but because of marketing force and they need to make sequels and sell more Oreo cookies and people apparently wanna see Barry Keoghan as Dollmaker Joker or a grounded Mr Freeze or whatever.
They still could totally do a Catwoman movie with her in Bludhaven, where much like you had Joker as Scorsese homage , you have the Darwyn Cooke take on her with a Michael Mann homage. So a solid heist film
Maybe you get Tati Gabrielle to come in as Holly Robinson as sidekick and maybe love interest
So we get a DC Black version of Thief/Heat but also Bound.
There is no problem with Batman, it is with you. You clearly don't enjoy him if you don't want him to be Batman.
@@LWoodGaming Yeah if you are appealing to any sense of realism like this world tries too, he is way too incompetent to justify himself.
You are right, Zoe Kravitz/Catwoman... she stole the show of the movie
Tbh I think even the fact that Falcone was very near killing Selina was crazy anyway. Like what. Falcone is not typically a physical threat. I get that whole angle of "someone who is not a physical threat to Batman maybe a physical threat to others" but this is freaking Catwoman we're talking about here.
IDK I think this movie was gratuitous with like... Female death? Or patriarchal violence? By having Selina's mom strangled to death by Falcone off screen, by having us listen to Anika's death as she is strangled to death by Falcone, and then have Falcone easily begin strangling Catwoman, only stopping when Batman stops him... It is making gendered violence a talking point.
To then have Bruce stop Selina from killing him and the Riddler kill him instead, we just... Drop the talking point. It's never brought up in relation to the Riddler (with his terrorism and online following thing they could have done something about incels for ex), and Batman does not have to confront this violence as a man who also lives in the same society.
So they just bring up gendered violence and drop it, kinda like they just started using gendered violence at all to Prove How Gritty the Movie Is. It's real shit
Small weak counterpoint: I didn't read into the movie as much as you did so am not nearly as confident in my opinion but supporting characters tend to be the most interesting characters of a lot of movies. People remember Leonardo DiCaprio in Django, Ledger in The Dark Knight, Anthony Hopkins in Silence of the Lambs, Christoph Waltz in Inglorious Basterds and Django, Drill Sergeant dude from Full Metal Jacket, Meryl Streep in the Devil Wears Prada, etc.
There are exceptions, of course, but it might just come down to the type of movie you want to make. That's why you have so many supporting actors that "stole the show" because they were handed the best part. Not to discredit Zoe Kravitz or anything, I was genuinely surprised at how satisfied I was with everyone's performance.
Edit: Another thought: Batman villains and side characters tend to be the most interesting parts of the Batman story. If nothing else, this is almost always the case in the movies. "I think they could've done Batman differently" is such a common critique. Often valid, yes, but I have yet to see an actor portray Batman that I've seen everyone satisfied with. Christian Bale is a fantastic, if problematic actor. People criticize him for his portrayal of Batman and how his villains outshine him. I personally think he embodied the role the best, but still I don't really see much room for this perfect Batman performance people are conjuring up. Live action is different from animation and voice acting.
The Penguin is getting his own spin off series and it would be really cool if Catwoman got her own series at some point as well.
Absolutely hated her cut out beanie mask . Like she could afford all that leather and she couldn't find a decent mask. They actually made her look incredibly silly and it was hard to watch. Aesthetics matter to me . Her face shape is so beautiful I would have loved a beautiful masked outline.
Yas king!! I loved this! Please feel free to do more reviews! :) So I will start off by saying Catwoman was always one of my favorite characters. When I was young, it absolutely blew my mind when I saw the great Eartha Kitt play Catwoman back in the day (Shout out to everyone who remembers Nick at Night to see the 60's Batman). However, in the few instances that we had Catwoman in the movies (I too believe that they never made a Catwoman movie before hehe) that was never explored again...until The Batman.
I also agree that The Batman had such an interesting character in Selina that was not allowed the chance to shine because it wasn't her movie. I want to add that Catwoman was always a capable fighter who went toe to toe with Bats in combat. However in this movie, he had to rescue her majority of time with the exception of one instance (in which he ended up having to save her anyway)? I was a bit upset! She doesn't need Batman but the writing very much so emphasized the damsel in some kind of distress a little more than I liked.
Despite that, I admit I accept it because I am always so desperate for Catwoman content in the hopes that they continue to improve.I was especially thankful that she was a woman of color again and hope it continues which it more than likely will.
Thank you for another amazing video!
Yay! Movie reviews! You were very kind to this movie. That's cool after everybody just straight dragged it. Hey. Will you consider "sorry to bother you" and focus a little on Tessa Thompson's character?
12:57 when she said that line a group of people in my theatre audibly laughed 🙄
It was hilarious yes. I heard in other theatres there were collective groans and eyerolls from the audience.
it was so awkward. It's even more awkward because it's the only line in the entire movie that feels the need to call out race. It clearly had nothing to do with the film and feels like one person fought very hard to work this line into the movie. Felt very forced. Luckily I saw this movie when it was in cinema for a few weeks already so only 2 other ppl in my theater.
I jus recently discovered this channel pretty cool, I'm gonna
Model my own after this one
I basically agree with everything you said its rare these days I agree with someone 100%. I don't know... it felt nice to just be on the same wave length with someone for once.
Bat and Cat might like each other because they are good looking and share a hobby
Uh Halle Berry's Catwoman movie...
That's probably why there isn't a solo catwoman film.
Man, I'd love to see you make superhero/comic book related content more often.
the only thing is that the last half hour is super important to the development of his character, where he’s helping the people out of the wreckage and decides he doesn’t want people to just be terrified of him because it’s not productive. as far as the riddler’s motivations go it’s pretty unclear, there was nothing on bella real that we’re told about in the film at least. more important thematically than narratively, definitely feels a little unnecessary while it’s happening. i can rationalize it for myself but none of that is really supported by the film, it’s definitely worth criticism. doesn’t flow well. but neither did the end of the dark knight which kind of ends three times.
I didn't even watch the video... but I've talked about this movie's issues alot, and you know what... you're 100% right. This would fix all the issues.
Great video!
This channel rocks. The presenter is so charming that I watch stuff I normally wouldn’t be interested in. Widening my horizons on here.
Just the way Riddler rips tape in the movie instantly put him in the top 5 live action Batman villians for me
This is EXACTLY how I felt watching this film! Hard agree, great video!
I really cannot explain why they like each other bc i have no idea. I saw zero chemistry tbh. Selina is much more interesting it tru. Catwoman movie when?? I would've watched that in a heartbeat.
I'm learning english and i have to admit that your videos are great to practice 👍
I really hope showing Birds of Prey when you mentioned great DC films was as intentional as it seemed. That movie was wonderful.
it was The Suicide Squad. Birds of Prey is okay lol
I've heard other people also indicate that the previous cat woman movies were not worth mentioning. Why is that? Are they woefully different than the comics? Or just too cheesy? The older Batman movies are super cheesy too but people dont make the same joke about them not existing
My take on the kiss was that it was at least partially a manipulation tactic.
She likes him because he's hot. He likes her because she's hot. Sometimes, that's all it is. ;)
But yea, they don't seem to have much longterm compatibility. Except they're both weird.
This is a great video. A Catwoman's arc did have the potential to be more compelling than Batman's. Excellent analysis. Would love your take on more nerd stuff.
Thanks and keep up the great work, FD the Signifier! 👀
Engagement for the engagement god.
18:13 hey man, throw some RESPECT on HB's name lol
I think a common theme between the Batman-Catwoman dynamic is how they bend themselves for each other. Batman is more flexible in his moral code when it comes to her actions and Catwoman allows some of her agency to be taken away in return. As much as they're (sometimes inexplicably) drawn together across various media, trying to make the relationship work is difficult and sometimes volatile. The Batman film felt like it tried to lunge for that common theme in their relationship without putting in the work for us as viewers to make it feel authentic.
I could see Catwoman not being into Batman. But from the first scene that Batman was watching her change at her apartment I couldn't help but think that this more emo, basement dwelling Bruce Wayne could get attached to someone through this voyeuristic relationship he had with her
So late to this video, but geez. So happy to find someone that doesn't worship this movie. I don't feel quite as lonely anymore. Now, to find someone irl that shares the sentiment. 🙃
Batman isn't a super hero though. He is a costumed theatrical hero who knows superheros. The coolest batman stories were always the more grounded ones. Problem with live action batman is that anytime you actually see a man in that costume and know that he is not a mutant or an alien or iron man, everything he does has to be believable. Believable enough where you feel you could pull that off if you r parents died and left you a fortune and trauma
What a shame they've never made a Catwoman movie.
Yooo, John Turturro is one of my faves too!
Are you more zoomed in than usual? Not that it matters, I'm just trying to show engagement without running so much risk of getting algorithmically ignored for a copy/paste comment and it was the first thing to come to mind.
Ya, Batman is one of the few superhero series from DC that I do like and like a lot, but part of Batman's character is that he is a detective first, and a crime "fighter" actually using his learned martial arts to physically stop badguys/the badguys' goons second. Bruce Wayne is a superhero without superpowers. Everything he has is potentially possible within some human beings; Being born to rich parents, being raised to have morals, learning to think critically, but also learning fighting techniques for self-defence, Bruce Wayne is such a good superhero because he has the potential to be a real person under the right circumstances... unlike every other superhero who have literal super powers that would be impossible to actually achieve/earn/receive in real life.
It's sad a Catwoman movie has never been made the same way it's sad there were never more Star Wars movies after the trilogy ending with Return of the Jedi, or how there were never any sequels to The Matrix.
As a lifelong Batman & riddler fan who’s favorite variety is Detective Batman, I loved this movie. Having a proper mystery story with a bunch of Riddler clues had me overjoyed, despite the dark tone
That said, I think I perceived/projected more empathy and kindness on this Batman than you did. I also love animated Batman’s empathy, and I saw a glimmer of that when Batman apologized to Selina for making assumptions about her motivations
I think your analysis of the Riddler is very strong. I hadn’t considered before how illogical it is that he suddenly starts targeting regular people after going just after the powerful liars
Edited* It felt like DC’s version of Seven.
They never did a Selena Kyle movie. She really needs one. And I personally need a Poison Ivy movie.
I agree with your take on Selina, there's way more to her and surprisingly for a 3 hour movie, she doesn't get as much development as she deserved. Also, not a fan of the male gaze when Batman ogles her without her consent.
Uhm, the point of putting out a movie is for people to see it. Catwoman has no good faith since the Halle Berry debacle and Batman has literally been a cash cow for long than I've been alive. What are you even on? This is common sense.
I'm a huge Batman fan and so far, this has been my favorite cinematic take on the character (I don't count Mask of the Phantasm, as that was part of the animated series, a completely separate entity.) That said, I agree with almost everything you say about it here. Despite being a top tier Batman antagonist, Catwoman rarely ever gets a fair shake. And this movie is no exception. She and her story should have been center-stage, but she continually gets sidelined. She dangles a dozen tantalizing plot points, only for them to be dismissed in favor of generic love-interest bullshit.
You noted that the character is of mixed race, the child of an exploited and murdered woman of color, plus she's a queer woman. But it depresses me to reduce all these aspects to simply being for the sake of "inclusion." I guess I don't love the word because it suggests these things are just decoration. That they're for the audience, not the story. But with a character like Catwoman, looking at it like that missed the entire point.
What is Catwoman all about? I would say that she's the person Batman would be if he wasn't a white, rich, straight cis-male. She has all his brilliance, skill, and willpower, but because she's poor, female, and queer, she has a very different relationship with society. From Batman's perspective, Gotham doesn't work because it's plagued with crime and corruption. But a Gotham working exactly as Batman would want it to wouldn't make much difference to her. If he had his way, she'd have to quit her life of crime, her bills pile up till she's booted out into the street. Where's the justice in that? Catwoman doesn't have any illusions about "saving" Gotham. What good would that do her? Batman wants reform, while Catwoman wouldn't benefit from anything less than revolution.
The notion of reform is addressed through Bella Real, but purely through lip service. We don't actually know whether Real offers anything, well, real. In her final speech, she talks about restoring faith in Gotham's institutions, but that statement is so hollow, it almost seems deliberate. It's not faith that needs to be restored, it's the institutions themselves. So even from her first speech as Mayor, she seems exactly what Riddler assumed she was, another empty suit speaking empty words while the city falls apart. But this brings me to the final half-hour of the film, which many considered unnecessary, but I thought was crucial. Riddler's final solution felt poorly motivated, but I think I see what the film was trying to get at. Real hasn't proven one way or the other whether she's going to make anything better, so Riddler assumes she's just another phony. While Batman has to believe in her, because if he doesn't, his life has been meaningless. But because the film doesn't spend any time with her, that final conflict between hope and "fuck it all" is just vague. Real should be a tantalizing puzzle. Instead, she's a blank.
From my first viewing, I was left feeling exactly the way you do, that Catwoman's story was left unfinished, leaving the film unfinished. Every question she asked or truth-bomb she lobbed would have improved the movie no end, had it been addressed. She was the true moral center of the film, the only one who saw Gotham clearly. And as is always the case with Catwoman, her clarity was brushed off as amoral self-interest. Centering her in the story would have made a good Batman movie into the best one. It's a shame.
Batman is t batman yet. He is only beginning. This is the real batman begins. He is only just realizing the error of his previous ways.. Next movie you are gonna see him adopt the bruce wayne persona and get better at things. By the 3rd movie you will see him squatting over gargoyls on a rainy night a few hundred feet above ground and actually glide
Exactly. That was the whole point of Bruce's arc and that's what makes Robert Pattinson so incredible. In Batman is highly intelligent and skilled, but Bruce Wayne is still the traumatized kid who watched his parents get shot. He where's hes pain on his sleeve because he hasn't learned to mask it through his different personas. That's why he puts everything into being 'vengeance' .
This movie doesn't work without Bruce's crucial arc.
Because the romance between Batman and Catwomen doesn't really make sense my first instinct was that she is not bisexual, she is gay. But like you mention and as we see other times in the movies, she's learned to use her sexuality toward men to get what she wants.
"Even though it's pg-13 it still felt very brutal and disturbing at times. It takes talent to make a setting feel ruthless and cut-throat under those limitations."
Ok, but we don't cheer that, right? PG13 is inappropriate for children under 13, some material may be inappropriate for pre-teenagers. So in a movie for 14 year olds the studio tried to go as hard as they could to the benefit of whom exactly? Violence-desensitized teens and adults who watch teen movies? I find the push for more brutality in teen movies disturbing.
I don't think there is any reason to shelter teenagers from brutality and mature themes. they're not babies.
If it was just a shallow action movie I'd maybe agree a little. But the violence was needed as part of the plot.
Tho the only real unrealistic part was prolly the chase scene and that isn't unsuitable for 14 year olds.
The rating just means they could watch it, I wouldn't say that means it was made specifically for them as all of the characters are adults and deal with mature themes.
@@T1J Absolutely shelter kids from brutality as entertainment. A guy who hides his identity proclaiming he is Justice personified while beating a man comatose who had committed no crime is not a role model for kids, that's a role model for police officers. Do you want emotionally healthy kids or school shooters?
@@2nd3rd1st Batman beats people up in kid's cartoons as well. I think you are belittling a teenagers ability to separate fantasy from reality. also the whole point of this movie specifically is Batman realizing that brutality can't solve all of his problems.
@@2nd3rd1st Please release your grasp of those pearls
i mean there is a catwoman movie but it just happens to be terrible bc they did not understand the character. she gets cat powers bc she dies and a magic teleporting cat burps in her mouth to revive her
Gonna be honest I never got the feeling that Selina's 'girlfriend' was actually her 'girlfriend'. I just thought that they were really close friends and looked out for each other and that the term was just used in reference to her. Maybe I'm just really gullible.
Yes! Completely agree on everything about cat woman.
They aren't all missed opportunities yet. Fingers crossed for a Catwoman movie.
Cool points but I would not want a Catwoman movie over a Batman movie
Exactly.