Why not have two Suunto compasses since they are much easier to use. No one is such an idiot, boob that he would break two compasses. I’ll believe that if your greenhorn brother knew how important a compass was, he wouldn’t have put it in a position to get smashed. I’m 65 and I’ve used compasses hundreds if not thousands of times and I’ve never broken one. There is a German compass that has a liquid filled capsule that is made of a plastic that’s not hard so it gives. Because of this feature a bubble can never form in it, because it’s not affected by pressures caused by temperature swings. That one is pretty much indestructible. The brand is K & R. I subscribed to your channel. I would love to see some navigation videos using map and compass. You have some very interesting videos. God bless. John
The US military currently uses the Cammenga 3H and has for decades. They're great compasses. Stockard and Yale used to make them, too, and you'll see those with the acronym "SandY" and a four digit year date printed on them. Either the Cammenga or the SandY will be a great compass. I have an old SandY from 1983 that still has a faint glow to it. For a baseplate compass, the Suunto MC-2 and the Brunton TruArc 3 are great tools. On the high end, the Suunto runs about $70. On the low end, the Brunton runs under $20. But they're both made in the USA and I've used and would trust either of them. The Brunton is the simplest and lacks the signal/viewing mirror of the Suunto (which can be very helpful in moving along an azimuth/bearing). The Suunto also has a small magnifying lens on it that in full sun can be used to create an ember in charred material. I've had Silva Rangers in the past that were made in the USA and would wholeheartedly endorse them, but it appears they're made in China now, so I can't recommend them any longer.
I do the same thing. I use a Sunto MC2 Global as my main compass; the declination adjustment is just too convenient to pass up. However; I would never stake my life and safety on a plastic compass. Therefore, my 20 year old, bombproof Camenga lives in my pack as backup. I just have to watch a video on its use every couple years to make sure I remember how to operate it, since it is quite different.
So, MILS is short for Milliradian and is simply another form of angular or radial measurement. It's also abbreviated as "MRAD". It has nothing to do with the military other than the fact the military uses it. The reasons they use it is that it is based on the metric system. Awesome video, great work!
They are not milliradians, nor are they metric - they are just "mils" and there are 400 mils to a circle, i.e. 400 mils = 360 degrees = 6280 approx milliradians
@@karhukivi this is not correct. There are 18 mils in a degree. There are 6,400 mils in a complete circle. I mean, you could have found that information in less than a minute on Google. The true definition of a milliradian is based on a unit circle with a radius of one and an arc divided into 1,000 mrad per radian, hence 2,000 π or approximately 6,283.185 milliradians in one turn, and rifle scope adjustments and reticles are calibrated to this definition.[1] There are also other definitions used for land mapping and artillery which are rounded to more easily be divided into smaller parts for use with compasses, which are then often referred to as "mils", "lines", or similar. For instance there are artillery sights and compasses with 6,400 NATO mils, 6,000 Warsaw Pact mils or 6,300 Swedish "streck" per turn instead of 360° or 2π radians, achieving higher resolution than a 360° compass while also being easier to divide into parts than if true milliradians were used.
@@coyoteblue9733 Not quite! a circle is 2xpi radians, and 2 times pi is not exactly 6400. Pi is 3.14157... so 2xpi = 6283.14... milliradians. Mils was just a simple convention to make the calculations easier for soldiers.
The Cammenga is claimed to be able to function at temperatures between -50F to 150F. It is sand proof, waterproof I believe, shock proof, will not eventually develop bubbles, and it is hyper accurate. I use a baseplate compass to map out/calculate my routes (trip/hike planning azimuths and back azimuths distances, ETA, etc), and the Cammenga to physically navigate that route in the field. Baseplate for map - lensatic for ground. Declination/adjustable declination? Until about 50 or 70 years ago nobody had adjustable declination on their compass - they would simply add or subtract the 20, or 12, or 7...or however many degrees of declination/variation from magnetic North, East or West for that area at that time (make sure the date of the map and declination calculations you are using are up to date!), and simply adjust your bezel ring to read the bearing after all the calculations are completed. Not that difficult, really, and I find it more dependable/less confusing to simply perform the simple math (add or subtract), and not even use the adjustable declination option many compasses are equipped with. I take both compasses with me (and map), but that Cammenga is the far better compass. If I could only take one, the Cammenga would be it.
i've broken a cammenga at least 4 times break , barely using it. lens just fell out 1 time. had 2 times the rotating lens fell out. i've had the floating dial get lodged from riding in my truck against the glass off of the needle pivot. maybe its time for a new one. but they arent as tough as people want to think. my suunto mc2 is holding up pretty good for almost 4 years.
I've had a Cammenga model 27 ( non Tritium ) for 5 yrs or so and just bought a Silva Expedition ( no mirror ) I sort of had the Model 27 worked out but haven't been out navigating for some time so need to refresh the nav skills. I got the Silva to help with that because of the adjustable declination. But now I'm confused how to use it after the adjustment is made as far as M to G , or G to M calculations. Or are there no calculations now ? But one thing I don't like about the Silva, is the fear of breaking or scratching the hell out of the baseplate. Probably make a soft fabric sleave/ pocket for it Cheers from Oz 🇦🇺 Neil
Excellent advice young man. Very informative. My two cents worth, being a "broke" old man who can barely aford the cheaper one, I'm thinking since you are right about the idea of a backup, get Two of the baseplate models. Tuck one away as you do your lensatic. If you break the second one? Ruh Roh. Just a thought. Appreciate and enjoyed your video.
The baseplate compasses can and WILL break. The sturdier models of lensatic compass are far more rugged. If you have a baseplate compass with the correct declination then note the declination and IF the need to use the backup lensatic compass arises you'll be all set. It's just a little more work. No Ruh Rohs to worry about.
I have a question do you suggest to buy these compass brands: eyeskey, sportneer, AOFAR? I've found a eyeskey compass that cost just 30€ and I would like buy it but I am not sure if eyeskey make good compass. 30€ seems to cheap for a good device considering that a cammega compass price is 100$. Thank you for your answer and good video!🙏🏻😉
Can someone please answer the below questions? - When conducting land navigation in open country, is the lensatic a better option? as you can take a bearing to another point far away for better accuracy.
the lensatic swings to much and is going to drive you nuts. the baseplate your just trying to keep red in the shed. both are swinging freely, but the lensatic if your trying to keep the arrow to the line.. its going to mess with your head more. across truely open ground , your going to keep your nose in the compass, so you dont deviate, left or right. if you go over to the compass store. i saw silva had brought back the retro alunimin bezel , which is pretty cool. if it was me i'd look at the suunto mc2 / silva ranger, expedition/ brunton truarc20/ suunto mb-6 . everything with a global needle. i think if your going to make a change of travel in a woods , to get around a obstacle. baseplates are easier to use. 90 right/90 left /90 left /90 right your straight again. if your walking in off a trail and want to come back to teh trail while hunting. 90 right 90 left 90 left and your back on the trail. the lensatic is going to make you sketch your travel out.
I have a Silva Expedition 4 (baseplate, no adjuster for declination, no mirror) that have been using regularly for fifty years. No breakage, no bubble in the capsule. Declination isn't much of an issue in the UK. When in the army I used a Lensatic type compass and would be content if this were my usual compass now. Like a lot of equipment (eg head torch), it is important to have a backup. For a compass, I am comfortable relying on the somewhat inaccurate compass on my cellphone as backup. The chances of my baseplate compass failing and my phone failing is very remote -it's never happened. Before cellphone, I used to rely on partner's compass as backup but maybe I should have had a second baseplate compass.
@@2adamast According to the original statement your one opinion is none and therefore does not exist. To exist please have a second opinion and therefore one opinion. =-)
@@incorectulpolitic the Magnetic North Pole isn't a pinpoint on a map and it shifts a degree or two a year. So within those limitations yes any Compass points directly at the Magnetic North Pole. Having said that, I will agree with Luke that a geological compass (AKA an Artillery compass) is the most accurate handheld compass. If you want to get more accurate than that you're going to need a Transit. I would recommend that you look up the Silva one two three method here on UA-cam and watch their videos
Hi there. Can the Silva compass you have be used in the southern hemisphere. If not what is the equivalent for that for SH. Finally could any compass be used in countries close to the equator, either north or south of it but close. Cheers mate
The first answer is "yes" but you need to be mindful of the fact that the needle might drag along the base of the capsule. This can be avoided by holding the compass in such a way that the needle does not drag. All premium compass manufacturers offer models with a needle weighted to operate correctly in the southern hemisphere but they are not readily available in the Northern Hemisphere. Your second answer is also yes. In fact, the closer you are to the equator the better. hope this helps.
Yes, having both a lensatic and a baseplate will cover pretty much any use case you could have. But not the baseplate compass you show. There's not point in paying extra money for a mirror baseplate compass since you don't need the mirror when you have the much superior lensatic to sight. Secondly, you are actually losing features compared to a Silva Expedition 4, which is what I would recommend instead, since it has a bigger base and it's easier to work with it on the map because of that. And one other downside to the mirror baseplate: while they may be more accurate when sighting with them, the actual process of sighting SUCKS. I just cannot overstate what a bad experience it is. You can barely see anything through that tiny notch, the mirror alignment is hard to maintain, and spinning the bezel just ruins everything. I would say that working on a map with a lensatic, trying to align the compass with grid north, is a far better experience than trying to sight with a mirror baseplate.
You aren't wrong, but I can't tell you the number of times the mirror has come in handy for me for non-navigation purposes. Just last week I handed it to one of my friends who got a spruce needle in his eye while we were walking. I also frequently to inspect the underside of my tractor. I wouldnt advocate it on those grounds, but I love having a pocket mirror handy.
@@CristiNeagu I agree that a top mirror isn't worth the hassle on a baseplate. Prismatic and side lens compasses get 1° precision, so if it is about precision the prismatic Silva 55 could be a good choice
@@CristiNeagu They say optical, but on the picture there is a prism "Probably the most resourceful compass in the world for artillery; target acquisition and command posts. The 55 is a unique compass featuring both an optical precision sighting system and a SILVA 1-2-3 SYSTEM" The UK military 54 may look similar. Now I have $5 chinese with side lens (not top lens like the lensatic) that does 1° precision too.
Why not have two Suunto compasses since they are much easier to use. No one is such an idiot, boob that he would break two compasses. I’ll believe that if your greenhorn brother knew how important a compass was, he wouldn’t have put it in a position to get smashed. I’m 65 and I’ve used compasses hundreds if not thousands of times and I’ve never broken one. There is a German compass that has a liquid filled capsule that is made of a plastic that’s not hard so it gives. Because of this feature a bubble can never form in it, because it’s not affected by pressures caused by temperature swings. That one is pretty much indestructible. The brand is K & R. I subscribed to your channel. I would love to see some navigation videos using map and compass. You have some very interesting videos. God bless. John
Oh, ho, you've never met some of my friends have you?
Because they are not as good a Silva (Swedish Silva)
Two is one, one is none.
The US military currently uses the Cammenga 3H and has for decades. They're great compasses. Stockard and Yale used to make them, too, and you'll see those with the acronym "SandY" and a four digit year date printed on them. Either the Cammenga or the SandY will be a great compass. I have an old SandY from 1983 that still has a faint glow to it.
For a baseplate compass, the Suunto MC-2 and the Brunton TruArc 3 are great tools. On the high end, the Suunto runs about $70. On the low end, the Brunton runs under $20. But they're both made in the USA and I've used and would trust either of them. The Brunton is the simplest and lacks the signal/viewing mirror of the Suunto (which can be very helpful in moving along an azimuth/bearing). The Suunto also has a small magnifying lens on it that in full sun can be used to create an ember in charred material.
I've had Silva Rangers in the past that were made in the USA and would wholeheartedly endorse them, but it appears they're made in China now, so I can't recommend them any longer.
Suunto compass is made in China too and has bad quality!
@@ibragim_on Negative, the Suunto MC-2 model is made in Finland. And the quality of the two I own and use is exceptional.
I'd much rather have the Silva Expedition 4, since it has some very useful romers on it.
Sorry about the abrupt light changes, we were getting intermittent showers all day 😅
I do the same thing. I use a Sunto MC2 Global as my main compass; the declination adjustment is just too convenient to pass up. However; I would never stake my life and safety on a plastic compass. Therefore, my 20 year old, bombproof Camenga lives in my pack as backup. I just have to watch a video on its use every couple years to make sure I remember how to operate it, since it is quite different.
Two is one, one is none, you always take a backup, ALWAYS but the Cammenga, as good as it is, would not be my recommendation for hiking.
So, MILS is short for Milliradian and is simply another form of angular or radial measurement. It's also abbreviated as "MRAD". It has nothing to do with the military other than the fact the military uses it. The reasons they use it is that it is based on the metric system. Awesome video, great work!
There are 18 mils to 1 degree. The smaller the gradient the more accurate the measurement.
Artillery compasses are EXCLUSIVELY in Mils.
They are not milliradians, nor are they metric - they are just "mils" and there are 400 mils to a circle, i.e. 400 mils = 360 degrees = 6280 approx milliradians
@@karhukivi this is not correct. There are 18 mils in a degree. There are 6,400 mils in a complete circle. I mean, you could have found that information in less than a minute on Google.
The true definition of a milliradian is based on a unit circle with a radius of one and an arc divided into 1,000 mrad per radian, hence 2,000 π or approximately 6,283.185 milliradians in one turn, and rifle scope adjustments and reticles are calibrated to this definition.[1] There are also other definitions used for land mapping and artillery which are rounded to more easily be divided into smaller parts for use with compasses, which are then often referred to as "mils", "lines", or similar. For instance there are artillery sights and compasses with 6,400 NATO mils, 6,000 Warsaw Pact mils or 6,300 Swedish "streck" per turn instead of 360° or 2π radians, achieving higher resolution than a 360° compass while also being easier to divide into parts than if true milliradians were used.
@@coyoteblue9733 Not quite! a circle is 2xpi radians, and 2 times pi is not exactly 6400. Pi is 3.14157... so 2xpi = 6283.14... milliradians. Mils was just a simple convention to make the calculations easier for soldiers.
@@karhukivi there's elements of Truth in both what we're saying but your original post was much wrong.
The Cammenga is claimed to be able to function at temperatures between -50F to 150F. It is sand proof, waterproof I believe, shock proof, will not eventually develop bubbles, and it is hyper accurate. I use a baseplate compass to map out/calculate my routes (trip/hike planning azimuths and back azimuths distances, ETA, etc), and the Cammenga to physically navigate that route in the field. Baseplate for map - lensatic for ground. Declination/adjustable declination? Until about 50 or 70 years ago nobody had adjustable declination on their compass - they would simply add or subtract the 20, or 12, or 7...or however many degrees of declination/variation from magnetic North, East or West for that area at that time (make sure the date of the map and declination calculations you are using are up to date!), and simply adjust your bezel ring to read the bearing after all the calculations are completed. Not that difficult, really, and I find it more dependable/less confusing to simply perform the simple math (add or subtract), and not even use the adjustable declination option many compasses are equipped with. I take both compasses with me (and map), but that Cammenga is the far better compass. If I could only take one, the Cammenga would be it.
I have both. I just got may lensatic compass couple of days ago and I'm loving it 👍😅
i've broken a cammenga at least 4 times break , barely using it. lens just fell out 1 time. had 2 times the rotating lens fell out. i've had the floating dial get lodged from riding in my truck against the glass off of the needle pivot. maybe its time for a new one. but they arent as tough as people want to think. my suunto mc2 is holding up pretty good for almost 4 years.
I've had a Cammenga model 27 ( non Tritium ) for 5 yrs or so and just bought a Silva Expedition ( no mirror )
I sort of had the Model 27 worked out but haven't been out navigating for some time so need to refresh the nav skills.
I got the Silva to help with that because of the adjustable declination. But now I'm confused how to use it after the adjustment is made as far as M to G , or G to M calculations. Or are there no calculations now ?
But one thing I don't like about the Silva, is the fear of breaking or scratching the hell out of the baseplate. Probably make a soft fabric sleave/ pocket for it
Cheers from Oz 🇦🇺
Neil
The old saying is do you have a ten dollar head ? Then get a ten dollar helmet. Or how much is your well being worth to you. Stay safe.
I want to see a trend start where people do a line of instant coffee to get things going. Now that would be informative. 😏
If your brother can't use a compass, then it doesn't matter if he has two.
And belt and suspenders, considering how important it is to keep up your pants.
Excellent advice young man. Very informative. My two cents worth, being a "broke" old man who can barely aford the cheaper one, I'm thinking since you are right about the idea of a backup, get Two of the baseplate models. Tuck one away as you do your lensatic. If you break the second one? Ruh Roh. Just a thought. Appreciate and enjoyed your video.
The baseplate compasses can and WILL break. The sturdier models of lensatic compass are far more rugged. If you have a baseplate compass with the correct declination then note the declination and IF the need to use the backup lensatic compass arises you'll be all set. It's just a little more work. No Ruh Rohs to worry about.
Suunto compass is getting bed quality😢 I had one
I have a question do you suggest to buy these compass brands: eyeskey, sportneer, AOFAR? I've found a eyeskey compass that cost just 30€ and I would like buy it but I am not sure if eyeskey make good compass. 30€ seems to cheap for a good device considering that a cammega compass price is 100$.
Thank you for your answer and good video!🙏🏻😉
For the money these you mentioned aren't bad I have all 3 including a yehobu and cammenga they are all good as long as you aren't rough on them
@@zszs123 thank you! Maybe it's better if I spend more and take a cammenga if they're not super solid
Can someone please answer the below questions?
- When conducting land navigation in open country, is the lensatic a better option? as you can take a bearing to another point far away for better accuracy.
the lensatic swings to much and is going to drive you nuts. the baseplate your just trying to keep red in the shed. both are swinging freely, but the lensatic if your trying to keep the arrow to the line.. its going to mess with your head more. across truely open ground , your going to keep your nose in the compass, so you dont deviate, left or right. if you go over to the compass store. i saw silva had brought back the retro alunimin bezel , which is pretty cool. if it was me i'd look at the suunto mc2 / silva ranger, expedition/ brunton truarc20/ suunto mb-6 . everything with a global needle. i think if your going to make a change of travel in a woods , to get around a obstacle. baseplates are easier to use. 90 right/90 left /90 left /90 right your straight again. if your walking in off a trail and want to come back to teh trail while hunting. 90 right 90 left 90 left and your back on the trail. the lensatic is going to make you sketch your travel out.
brunton just recently changed what compass fluid is used and assembled, making them more robust.
I have a Silva Expedition 4 (baseplate, no adjuster for declination, no mirror) that have been using regularly for fifty years. No breakage, no bubble in the capsule. Declination isn't much of an issue in the UK. When in the army I used a Lensatic type compass and would be content if this were my usual compass now. Like a lot of equipment (eg head torch), it is important to have a backup. For a compass, I am comfortable relying on the somewhat inaccurate compass on my cellphone as backup. The chances of my baseplate compass failing and my phone failing is very remote -it's never happened. Before cellphone, I used to rely on partner's compass as backup but maybe I should have had a second baseplate compass.
two is one; one is none.
That’s one opinion
@@2adamast According to the original statement your one opinion is none and therefore does not exist. To exist please have a second opinion and therefore one opinion. =-)
You can get a lensatic compass that doesn't have the triduum or the ruler on the side for under $10.
Is the cammenga the best at pointing precisely toward the magnetic north?
ANY compass points precisely at magnetic north
@@coyoteblue9733 are you sure that ANY compass will do that?
@@Luke-eg1gn hi, can you recommend a specific brand/model/product please? I would like to buy the best.
@@incorectulpolitic the Magnetic North Pole isn't a pinpoint on a map and it shifts a degree or two a year.
So within those limitations yes any Compass points directly at the Magnetic North Pole.
Having said that, I will agree with Luke that a geological compass (AKA an Artillery compass) is the most accurate handheld compass. If you want to get more accurate than that you're going to need a Transit.
I would recommend that you look up the Silva one two three method here on UA-cam and watch their videos
@@coyoteblue9733 can you recommend please a quality geological compass?
Hi there. Can the Silva compass you have be used in the southern hemisphere. If not what is the equivalent for that for SH. Finally could any compass be used in countries close to the equator, either north or south of it but close. Cheers mate
The first answer is "yes" but you need to be mindful of the fact that the needle might drag along the base of the capsule. This can be avoided by holding the compass in such a way that the needle does not drag. All premium compass manufacturers offer models with a needle weighted to operate correctly in the southern hemisphere but they are not readily available in the Northern Hemisphere. Your second answer is also yes. In fact, the closer you are to the equator the better. hope this helps.
Yes, having both a lensatic and a baseplate will cover pretty much any use case you could have. But not the baseplate compass you show. There's not point in paying extra money for a mirror baseplate compass since you don't need the mirror when you have the much superior lensatic to sight. Secondly, you are actually losing features compared to a Silva Expedition 4, which is what I would recommend instead, since it has a bigger base and it's easier to work with it on the map because of that. And one other downside to the mirror baseplate: while they may be more accurate when sighting with them, the actual process of sighting SUCKS. I just cannot overstate what a bad experience it is. You can barely see anything through that tiny notch, the mirror alignment is hard to maintain, and spinning the bezel just ruins everything. I would say that working on a map with a lensatic, trying to align the compass with grid north, is a far better experience than trying to sight with a mirror baseplate.
You aren't wrong, but I can't tell you the number of times the mirror has come in handy for me for non-navigation purposes. Just last week I handed it to one of my friends who got a spruce needle in his eye while we were walking. I also frequently to inspect the underside of my tractor.
I wouldnt advocate it on those grounds, but I love having a pocket mirror handy.
@@thetimberlandinvestorIt's true that it has more uses besides just being a compass, but as a compass it's such an annoying experience.
@@CristiNeagu I agree that a top mirror isn't worth the hassle on a baseplate. Prismatic and side lens compasses get 1° precision, so if it is about precision the prismatic Silva 55 could be a good choice
@@2adamast Unless there's something I'm not aware of, Silva don't make a prismatic compass of any kind.
@@CristiNeagu They say optical, but on the picture there is a prism "Probably the most resourceful compass in the world for artillery; target acquisition and command posts. The 55 is a unique compass featuring both an optical precision sighting system and a SILVA 1-2-3 SYSTEM" The UK military 54 may look similar.
Now I have $5 chinese with side lens (not top lens like the lensatic) that does 1° precision too.