Uploading such an important video on April 1st is a chad move. This has bugged me for years at this point, so I’m really glad you’re pointing out how dumb it is to say that a piece of art is objectively good. We humans are not robots : we have so many more parameters that affect our personal biases, most of which are completely irrational or related to a specific individual (memories, experience, psychology, emotions, intuition/vibes…). I’d go as far as to say that different perceptions and views on the same thing are what make the concept of art special in the first place. As you mentioned it’s completely absurd that we’re at a point where people have to specify that they “respect an opinion” when that should go without saying. Hey, you who is reading this, you know that favourite *insert art form* of yours that you love to rewatch again and again ? Yeah, someone out there thinks it’s mid. And that other thing that you consider to be the worst piece of art of all time ? Someone out there thinks it’s peak. “So what” you ask ? Exactly. Now stop saying that opinions matter and either listen to them or ignore them if you can’t deal with the emotional trauma. Sorry for the yap, TLDR : Objectively good art = nonexistent, rely on personal vibes and nothing else to determine a piece’s value. Discussing it with someone with a different take can be fun and interesting, but only if you’re willing to actually listen to each other and try to understand why your opinions differ.
This video is great way to communicate such an important and prevalent issue on both the internet and in real life. Huge fan of your content! (My opinion)
I'm fond of when people give an "I feel" and "I think" rating. They're both valuable, and even a techinically awful game can be a blast with the right mindset, like Pathologic.
so much of our opinions on art really comes down to *how* we experience it as well the point in our lives, as well as our preexisting likes and dislikes, and even the people in our lives can all have a huge effect on how we feel about the media we consume when we look back on it
Bro is tryna make me cry, 😭 I loved this video it makes me remember that people are actually people online and I know that might sound stupid but I forget sometimes I'm being serious for once I love your channel when I first discovered your channel I was just bored and wanted to watch something to trash on speedsters writing in show's so thank you for making your channel you're one of the best person on UA-cam Keep up the good work,
I needed this video. I think the problem is that for most people their only interaction with art is as a form of entertainment. So they judge pieces on one metric, fun, which leads to the linear scoring system that is still prevalent today and the inability to accept anything that isn’t inherently fun.
gotta say, your videos always bring a great perspective to things. I think the biggest thing people lack is perspective, they are unable to understand each other and other viewpoints outside their own.
I will continue to say "L take" because it's funny, actually. And doesn't need to serve any other purpose than that. And ovbiously, I'd back it up with a full chronically online paragraph of reasons why it's an "L take." Of course.
This was a genuinely good video. I feel like if you try to express this, in anyway, some douchebags still just want to be trolls and respond L TAKE, just because they rather tell you to shut up, you’re wrong, invincible is perfect, and you’re stupid for even trying to argue against anything regarding invincible, or whatever art you’re discussing.
Okay, won't lie, I really liked invincible in the first season. Show was kinda peak, even for its flaws. Not so much the second season though... I am... _less_ fond of the series as of late, for reasons self-explanatory 😬
Honestly this video sums up the reason I like your videos. You have a great understanding of subjective commentary that not many have and it is very refreshing. I also agree that 2 people can have different opinions on the same medium and its okay. Art really should never be competitive with itself because it tends to dilute the point of the art work. Thank you for another banger vid my guy. Respect 👌
Really liked the flash movie and knew it had many issues but saw a long video breakdown of it and I realized damn. This is complete trash. But I can enjoy it and still recognize that it's a bad movie.
There is absolutely some objective means of critiquing art, especially in terms of the techniques and execution. I still appreciate the vid and you're right with the general discourse being a crapshoot, but art is not entirely subjective. If all art and criticism of said art was completely subjective, then what is even the point of criticism? What is the point in trying to critique art if there's no objective measures for various artists to potentially improve upon? Can people honestly say that me throwing a bucket of paint randomly on a canvas has the same quality and merit as something like the Mona Lisa? Of course not. There are objective measures to hold artistic works to. Also, to say something is "good" is not a subjective statement. It's an objective one. Words like "good" and "bad" are objective descriptors. When someone says a work of art is "good", they are saying it's good either in comparison to other works within that medium, or they're saying it's good in the sense that it meets a certain set of rules and standards that are expected from a work in that certain medium. To say something is good is to ascribe an objective value to it. It has and never will be a subjective statement. Also, those critics who you praise in this vid are held to such acclaim because they are knowledgeable of the art. What is the point in their knowledge, their expertise, if there's no objective measures? If art and criticism of said art is entirely subjective, their words hold no more weight than some random joe schmoe who can barely articluate a point beyond "I like it". They're held in such regard because there's objective measures and standards we hold art to and they're the ones who are very knowledgeable of those standards and are good at expressing their opinions on how various works hold up to those standards. Of course there's some subjectivity involved for any critique, but to insinuate that "all art is subjective" is to disregard the very real committment and effort many artists go through to improve their skills and live up to the standards and expectations of various artistic mediums established by their forebears. In my experience, most of the discourse sucks because people cannot be honest about the poor objective qualities of works of art they happen to like. Also, the internet is set up where quick, quipy responses are encouraged and most people aren't going to bother to take the time out of their day to do a whole write up of their perspective on something. It sucks but that's just how it is. The discourse will always suck online. The comments you highlighted in this video are really stupid and demonstrate a lot of the problems. But it's not the only problem with the discourse. The problem with the perspective of "all art is subjective" is that it's very dishonest and is primarily used by consumers and critics as a cope to disregard the criticism of art they enjoy. No one genuinely believes that there is no objective standards or measures that can be applied to art. The artists I personally know and speak to frequently do not subscribe to that perspective because it's worthless to them. How can a painter improve their craft if there's no standard or merit to the various techniques used to create a painting? How can a writer further refine their storytelling techniques if there is no standard in which to compare their work to? To say that all art is subjective and that there's no objective standard to hold it to is to disregard the centuries of artistic expression, evolution, and discovery. It's to disregard the creatives who constantly strive to improve their art. Ironically in this video where you express a desire for people to be more honest about their feelings toward art, you express the most dishonest one. All art and the ways we perceive and criticize art are not entirely subjective. Criticism of art involves the consideration of both the objective standards and merits we hold artistic works to and the subjective feelings we get while engaging with said art. Art is both objective and subjective. You cannot properly create or critique art without both. The people who want to remove objectivity from art and express that "all art is subjective" are just insecure in their artistic works or critcism of art and don't want to deal with any pushback against their art or criticism. Regardless I do find value in getting other people's perspectives on art. Just like you, I also like to watch various reviews and critiques to get other peoples' perspectives. People sharing their views on art and how art makes them feel is a good thing, but it should not come at the expense of disregarding the objective quality of different works of art. Art is both objective and subjective.
Perfect comment, I always had this on my mind and you're the only individual that ive seen that shares this exact outlook other than me. To be frank i can see where the all art is subjective crowd are coming from but I feel like a third of those people are insecure about their own opinion, the other third is just trying to sound cool, and the last 3rd has managed to delude themselves into thinking thats the case
The rise of critical anti-intellectualism rises from people being accustomed to being in their bubble of positivity for films. Mainly childhood ones. And I partially blame the youtubers who profit off the nostalgia around films who generally tend to always talk positively about these childhood films and also compare them to "disgusting gen alpha kids films lol", so in this bubble people just circlejerk their opinions off and reject any sort of discourse that may risk having their views challenged on the matter. And to be honest, it's hard to blame. Like you said, it's hard to move on from movies you grew up to and liked in the past, especially with these youtubers revindicating your love for these films and preventing you from the chance of moving on from them. Therefore shutting down/poking fun of those who disagree will be easier than honestly engaging in a discussion with them.
Art isn't subjective, a person's individual tastes are subjective. The Godfather is an objectively better movie than Rush Hour 2.....................but I prefer Rush Hour 2. The real problem is that most people never practice self reflection and think that something is good entirely based on whether it appealed to them. But something can appeal to you for all sorts of reasons which have nothing to do with the art's quality. Maybe the main character reminds you of your favorite teacher or the villain looks like your high school bully. The subconscious mind is always affecting us. Ever smell something and immediately get reminded of a memory you didn't even know you had? These are just associations our mind has made subconsciously and we need to self reflect to separate ourselves from the art to see it more objectively.
Art isnt just subjective,there are objective observable qualities to a story which we can analyse,such as pacing,the plotholes and so on,you can still like those pieces of media but it doesnt mean they are good or bad.
The thing is that even something truly objective like plotholes ultimately has a subjective impact. For some people it ruins the experience, others they can know about them and not care at all. Pacing also gets perceived differently, some people might love the slow pacing of a film while others get bored of it quickly. Even if you consider those to be "objective qualities", the end result is ultimately the same
@@TarlukLegion It does not matter how it impacts the person,the problem will still be there and you can point to it,its true people value different things differently but that alone doesnt tell us much about the quality of something. It is perfectly fine to like something which isnt good,my favorite movie of all time is Revenge of the Sith,but thats a subjective analysis of things,i wouldnt tell you that its a great movie.
4.34-4.37 actually that is a very big point of contention in the philosophy of art. there are many intellegent people who'd clim that "is it good?" is a different question than "do i like it?". though i VERY much disagree. maybe a minor point, but still; i think it's fun to discuss the smaller points too
Art is at least not entirely subjective and i know it because sometimes i can really like something and simultaneously know that it's not that good, just really struck my taste, or vice versa. I'm sure you experienced some examples of things like that too. Based on that i argue: art is not entirely subjective.
Guys insecure test: Spider Verse 2 is a 4/10 Kung Fu Panda 2 is a 5/10 Cyberpunk 2077 is a 5/10 One Punch Man is a 1/10 Star Wars (1977) is a 2/10 Gen V is a 2/10 (RIP Chance Perdomo) Dark Souls 2 is a 3/10 Despicable Me is an 8/10
L take + didn't ask + you lost your credibility + you didn't get the point + bro really said this + you're objectively wrong + I'm inside your walls + I'm inside your penis
Star Wars (1977) is a perfect movie. I don't think it's possible to improve it. Your appreciation of art is subjective, but if you're trying to give a piece of art an objective rating, then you can't be ignorant about the level of talent that was required to make it. You're allowed to just be someone who watches movies and doesn't understand how they're made, but be prepared to be mocked by knowledgeable people for it. I find simple card tricks fun and impressive, but Pen & Teller might not be impressed, and I won't go around rating magicians because I know nothing about the craft. To be honest, I find rating the idea of rating stuff on a 10-point scale to be super silly to begin with.
excellent video as always rsg (2). i never liked numeric ratings for art, tier lists are better since they're really just rating something in contrast to other things, but when words are used to justify one's opinion, that is best. i personally really like subjective discourse, and i often overexaggerate my own feelings to the point of lunacy or satire because i think it's fun to get heated over stuff that doesn't matter just to feel something. it would be nice if everyone were as serious and careful about observing art as you are, but then we wouldnt get any entertainment out of stupid pointless arguments. as a side note, since i know you read your comments, a few videos back when you talked about anime writing, you mentioned seeing berserk and how it was dogass (or something to that effect, i dont remember). i know youre tastes lean towards subtle and well thought out writing specifically, and thought i'd try recommending you the berserk anime from 1997. most people say read the manga, but it's too long in my opinion, and devolved pretty quickly with bad characters and dumb power scaling tropes. the only reason im suggesting this, is because the berserk show im assuming you have watched was the one which came out in 2016, which is extremely shit. anyway im sorry to have written you an essay as a youtube comment. if you end up liking berserk 1997 then it would be neat to see a review and maybe you could take more recommendations for media from your comments (like recs for games and books and shit you may not have heard of). have a nice day.
I feel like this video wasted my time. All you said was “opinions are opinions, so stop giving opinions on others opinions.” Wtf? Isn’t that literally what this video is doing?
Very nice video man, I'm curious to see what people will think of this opinion after they watch the video. I think, Friday Night Funkin songs are good. Yep, that's my opinion. One that I know many will heavily disagree upon. I wanted to be honest with how I feel about some songs made for fnf in topic of this video, "Art is subjective". I listened to fnf artist called "Churgney Gurgney", ridiculous name I know, but tbh I love listening to his songs. Of course I am not fully on his boat, as I do feel he often uses vocals that are too off tune, loud or groggy. But something I feel needs to be noticed by him is the instrumentals he can create for fnf. For example, I love the song "Your copy", god I vibe with it so much, using sm64 font and piano to make an angelic, yet such a sorrowful vibe. Another example is "Red Killer", the vocals for this can feel soft and harmonic, yet also have some parts (especially Godzilla's vocals) be very ear piercing or scratchy. But DAMN do I love the cinematic feel of the instrumental, like I'm actually watching a Godzilla movie. Basically what I'm trying to get at is, I know people will not go near fnf anymore, but I still want them to at least try. If they do not like most of the songs, fair enough, and I won't try to get you to do. I feel this video has lifted some weight off me, to be open more on opinions, and others as well. I know I will probably still hop on trains of hate or love in fear of being attacked. But I still feel as if I can slowly open up little by little more because of videos like these.
This video was really well made in my opinion, a lot more professional than most of the previous ones in my opinion. Again guys this is only my opinion.
To be fair, Adum's perspective on the ornithopters in Dune still doesn't really make sense to me, the amount of confidence he has in what futuristic vehicles made by civilizations which mastered incomprehensibly advanced technology would realistically look like just doesn't calculate.
bro really felt some type of way 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
I don't think there is an "after you understandood a piece of art". There is always more to learn. I would say I get what you mean, but I don't, actually. Who would you say "understands" a piece of art? At what point does that happen?
When you can’t think of anything else to say about it, after you’ve talked for hours? He said PIECE of art, not the whole art, obviously there will be new stuff
@@СтефаноНачев No, I am saying you can never truly "understand" even a singular piece of art, that's why I quoted it as such. Anyway, my philosophy is that art is to be experienced, not to be understood, and you can only ever get to understand your experience, not the art itself.
I would disagree with this conception of aesthetics and artistic appreciation. The comment you read was correct, that you can have an appreciation for a piece of art that is not to your taste. And that is sort of the distinction. Matters of taste are subjective. However, it is a taste in aesthetics, which can be analyzed objectively. I would compare art to food. You can dislike eating something, and still recognize that it is a healthy, good thing to eat. The art we absorb has an influence on our sensitivity to aesthetics and beauty. I did not like Oppenheimer subjectively, but it’s a good movie aesthetically. Opinions actually can be wrong, just not in the same way facts can be wrong. If you think that Caravaggio painted ugly paintings, that can be your opinion, but it is a wrong opinion, because beauty is not a matter of subjectivity. Your response to beauty is what is subjective, and there is a degree of reader response that can enhance your experience of a particular work, certainly, but you can account for that in an objective analysis.
That being said, I really appreciate you creating this kind of content. There is not enough dialogue around the proper way to discuss art, and you diagnose correctly that most people on the internet have no standard or nuance whatsoever when it comes to discussing art.
L take bruh Yeah I guess enjoyment is pretty subjective. People have different tastes. But there's still rules sometimes like setup and payoff in storytelling which things like Playstation-Man 2 kinda fail at, resulting in a story that I would say is objectively pretty badly told. Idk. And what's the point of having online discourse if I can't shout at people for wanting Devil May Cry remakes, when my opinion that we should get new games instead is completely correct?
I’m just gonna leave this here pay me no mind The lore of Fnaf doesn’t make sense (which btw is the only good quality of these games) and the movie is even stupider If you think I’m rage baiting ask me why I think this way and I can explain
@@realchezboi ok for starters - why Afton, the main antagonist of the franchise, turned into a serial killer, you would think he is an important character, but we don't know - he made animatronics that can be worn to stuff corpses inside... that's literally not how animatronics work - nobody questioned the smell and why is it coming from set animatronics, you would think that they would start to rot and btw several more restaurants under the same name were opened with nobody questioning how always children near them disappear - the animatronics came to live (because the souls of the children literally said ,,Nah, I'd win" and refused to die) and immediately turned evil and hostile towards the player, makes you think how much in this world this happens, how many other objects have came to life - reminent, literally everything about reminent, Afton found out that the children he stuffed inside the animatronics started to leak live juice... nonsense aside, you are telling me that since the dawn of time nobody in this world found out that the dead in this world do that? I can go on and on, but you get the point
@@СтефаноНачевfnaf lore sucks? Wow colour me surprised. It’s clear scott cawthon did not expect the game to go the way it did and just made it up along the way
Thats a broad question,im gonna take the liberty to assume you are talking about when people are saying objective things about art,you can tell if they are being honest if they propose arguments that are cosistent,if they are not and you can tell they are purposefully acting in bad faith or omitting things they are being dishonest
i think that your tone is WAY too combative and lacks empathy for stuff that you probably did as well, but it's overall still a very good and philosophical video, and surprisingly wholesome at the end! (well, minus the picture of the raging guy). though i disagree about something central that you said "you can only trust the way that you feel about a piece of art". i think that if someone points something out to you that you haven't noticed or haven't thought of before then it change your opinion; it sure as hell happened to me.
I found this video quite thought provoking, and I wanted to give my 2 cents for anyone who cares to read. You say in the video that the quality of art is subjective, which I think is a reasonable position to hold, but you also claim that certain types of comments are bad (L take, W opinion). I don't think you can logically hold both of those positions at the same time. What makes a youtube comment fundamentally different than a TV show, that one's quality is objective and the other is subjective? How does it differ from judging someone's actions as good or bad morally? None of these judgments have a factual, basis, and if you drill down into any of these for long enough, you'll find that you call them bad because you don't like them. (i.e. Murder is bad, Why? Because it's unjust for the victims and their relatives, Why is injustice bad? Because I don't like it) That's an example of my own philosophical process, and you're free to have your own, but I don't see how, logically, you can believe art is subjective, and morality is objective. It's either all subjective, or all objective. For my part, I believe it's all subjective, but as I stated above, I think unfair things are bad. I believe it's unfair to say that the movie Megamind 2 is of the same quality as the movie Wall-E, therefore I'll call Megamind 2 bad, and Wall-E good. I think it's unfair because one clearly had more thought, effort and talent behind its creation, and I believe those traits should be recognized and rewarded. That's why, despite me not liking any romance movies, I won't call the genre bad, because I recognize the efforts that go into those movies, and it would go against my philosophical view of the world to call them bad. That's how I can hold the position "I dislike something but still think it's good" with a functioning brain.
I just wanna say I have a LOT of opinions and people have always argued with me like crazy. Thing is people are stupid and are sheep, everyone has there opinions mine is that Star Wars’s Andor is peak. So FREAKING WATCH IT.
@@jacobmagana4258 grammar isn't imperative to the point he's making, he's talking about stupidity as the inability to critically think for yourself, not how to use there/their/they're
I am not gonna watch this video, but I am gonna say "subject these nuts lmao"... subject these nuts lmao. Idk what subjective discourse is. Is it like those master-kitten people on My Little Pony discord servers?
I don't have to convince you you're wrong I just have to convince you I've thought about it enough to where you won't try to respond doing that in short order to satisfy our tweet-centric one-liner obsessed world though...I don't like it either
Middle schoolers when they find out someone has a different opinion about something they love: “L TaKE, ArE YoU HIGh BrO?”
Don't tell that to godzilla fandom, they will dox your location.
“What are you on about” is another annoying one
'And You just missed the point of the video...
“What is bro yapping about” i hate the kids that use the word bro in every sentence
love yourself, but be honest with yourself
hate yourself and lie to everyone
Instead of spouting off half-assed ideas, some people just need to plead the 5th.
All people are doing is convicting themselves as a dumbass.
This is just an ideology that sadly will never come true, but I appreciate you attempting to make more people try. Much love.
Uploading such an important video on April 1st is a chad move.
This has bugged me for years at this point, so I’m really glad you’re pointing out how dumb it is to say that a piece of art is objectively good. We humans are not robots : we have so many more parameters that affect our personal biases, most of which are completely irrational or related to a specific individual (memories, experience, psychology, emotions, intuition/vibes…). I’d go as far as to say that different perceptions and views on the same thing are what make the concept of art special in the first place. As you mentioned it’s completely absurd that we’re at a point where people have to specify that they “respect an opinion” when that should go without saying. Hey, you who is reading this, you know that favourite *insert art form* of yours that you love to rewatch again and again ? Yeah, someone out there thinks it’s mid. And that other thing that you consider to be the worst piece of art of all time ? Someone out there thinks it’s peak. “So what” you ask ? Exactly. Now stop saying that opinions matter and either listen to them or ignore them if you can’t deal with the emotional trauma.
Sorry for the yap, TLDR : Objectively good art = nonexistent, rely on personal vibes and nothing else to determine a piece’s value. Discussing it with someone with a different take can be fun and interesting, but only if you’re willing to actually listen to each other and try to understand why your opinions differ.
This video is great way to communicate such an important and prevalent issue on both the internet and in real life. Huge fan of your content! (My opinion)
L take
L take bruh are you high such a beta
W take, perhaps even sigma take.
@@nickhenson3093
Have you ever been punch in the face before?
@@alienboy1322 Jesus was dreamgender and gogy-sexual
I'm fond of when people give an "I feel" and "I think" rating. They're both valuable, and even a techinically awful game can be a blast with the right mindset, like Pathologic.
so much of our opinions on art really comes down to *how* we experience it as well
the point in our lives, as well as our preexisting likes and dislikes, and even the people in our lives can all have a huge effect on how we feel about the media we consume when we look back on it
its crazy how like 3 years ago i thought i was dumb for not liking something because others did
Bro is tryna make me cry, 😭 I loved this video it makes me remember that people are actually people online and I know that might sound stupid but I forget sometimes I'm being serious for once I love your channel when I first discovered your channel I was just bored and wanted to watch something to trash on speedsters writing in show's so thank you for making your channel you're one of the best person on UA-cam Keep up the good work,
I needed this video. I think the problem is that for most people their only interaction with art is as a form of entertainment. So they judge pieces on one metric, fun, which leads to the linear scoring system that is still prevalent today and the inability to accept anything that isn’t inherently fun.
It needed to be said.
gotta say, your videos always bring a great perspective to things. I think the biggest thing people lack is perspective, they are unable to understand each other and other viewpoints outside their own.
In my opinion art is neither 100% subjective or 100% objective
Subjectively, I appreciate your videos despite me not always agreeing with you
The random battle block theater music brought out some nostalgia
I will continue to say "L take" because it's funny, actually. And doesn't need to serve any other purpose than that.
And ovbiously, I'd back it up with a full chronically online paragraph of reasons why it's an "L take." Of course.
@Very_Silly_Individual
1. It's not funny
2. You spell "obviously" wrong.
I wish at the very least, people would explain their stance with reasoning, bare minimum to become discourse at all.
This was a genuinely good video. I feel like if you try to express this, in anyway, some douchebags still just want to be trolls and respond L TAKE, just because they rather tell you to shut up, you’re wrong, invincible is perfect, and you’re stupid for even trying to argue against anything regarding invincible, or whatever art you’re discussing.
Okay, won't lie, I really liked invincible in the first season. Show was kinda peak, even for its flaws. Not so much the second season though...
I am... _less_ fond of the series as of late, for reasons self-explanatory 😬
L take 🤓
The fact he has made this same video multiple times says a lot about most people
Honestly this video sums up the reason I like your videos. You have a great understanding of subjective commentary that not many have and it is very refreshing. I also agree that 2 people can have different opinions on the same medium and its okay. Art really should never be competitive with itself because it tends to dilute the point of the art work. Thank you for another banger vid my guy. Respect 👌
Really liked the flash movie and knew it had many issues but saw a long video breakdown of it and I realized damn. This is complete trash. But I can enjoy it and still recognize that it's a bad movie.
Nah bruh there is no objective measure. You're going directly against the video rn
@@Micheybomber
You need to be punch.
Says the guy who calls people who think stuff he doesn't like are masterpieces frauds
There is absolutely some objective means of critiquing art, especially in terms of the techniques and execution. I still appreciate the vid and you're right with the general discourse being a crapshoot, but art is not entirely subjective. If all art and criticism of said art was completely subjective, then what is even the point of criticism? What is the point in trying to critique art if there's no objective measures for various artists to potentially improve upon? Can people honestly say that me throwing a bucket of paint randomly on a canvas has the same quality and merit as something like the Mona Lisa? Of course not. There are objective measures to hold artistic works to.
Also, to say something is "good" is not a subjective statement. It's an objective one. Words like "good" and "bad" are objective descriptors. When someone says a work of art is "good", they are saying it's good either in comparison to other works within that medium, or they're saying it's good in the sense that it meets a certain set of rules and standards that are expected from a work in that certain medium. To say something is good is to ascribe an objective value to it. It has and never will be a subjective statement.
Also, those critics who you praise in this vid are held to such acclaim because they are knowledgeable of the art. What is the point in their knowledge, their expertise, if there's no objective measures? If art and criticism of said art is entirely subjective, their words hold no more weight than some random joe schmoe who can barely articluate a point beyond "I like it". They're held in such regard because there's objective measures and standards we hold art to and they're the ones who are very knowledgeable of those standards and are good at expressing their opinions on how various works hold up to those standards. Of course there's some subjectivity involved for any critique, but to insinuate that "all art is subjective" is to disregard the very real committment and effort many artists go through to improve their skills and live up to the standards and expectations of various artistic mediums established by their forebears.
In my experience, most of the discourse sucks because people cannot be honest about the poor objective qualities of works of art they happen to like. Also, the internet is set up where quick, quipy responses are encouraged and most people aren't going to bother to take the time out of their day to do a whole write up of their perspective on something. It sucks but that's just how it is. The discourse will always suck online. The comments you highlighted in this video are really stupid and demonstrate a lot of the problems. But it's not the only problem with the discourse.
The problem with the perspective of "all art is subjective" is that it's very dishonest and is primarily used by consumers and critics as a cope to disregard the criticism of art they enjoy. No one genuinely believes that there is no objective standards or measures that can be applied to art. The artists I personally know and speak to frequently do not subscribe to that perspective because it's worthless to them. How can a painter improve their craft if there's no standard or merit to the various techniques used to create a painting? How can a writer further refine their storytelling techniques if there is no standard in which to compare their work to? To say that all art is subjective and that there's no objective standard to hold it to is to disregard the centuries of artistic expression, evolution, and discovery. It's to disregard the creatives who constantly strive to improve their art.
Ironically in this video where you express a desire for people to be more honest about their feelings toward art, you express the most dishonest one. All art and the ways we perceive and criticize art are not entirely subjective. Criticism of art involves the consideration of both the objective standards and merits we hold artistic works to and the subjective feelings we get while engaging with said art. Art is both objective and subjective. You cannot properly create or critique art without both. The people who want to remove objectivity from art and express that "all art is subjective" are just insecure in their artistic works or critcism of art and don't want to deal with any pushback against their art or criticism.
Regardless I do find value in getting other people's perspectives on art. Just like you, I also like to watch various reviews and critiques to get other peoples' perspectives. People sharing their views on art and how art makes them feel is a good thing, but it should not come at the expense of disregarding the objective quality of different works of art. Art is both objective and subjective.
Perfect comment, I always had this on my mind and you're the only individual that ive seen that shares this exact outlook other than me.
To be frank i can see where the all art is subjective crowd are coming from but I feel like a third of those people are insecure about their own opinion, the other third is just trying to sound cool, and the last 3rd has managed to delude themselves into thinking thats the case
@@slendermf8588 I’m in the last 3rd lol
Man… this is something i’d get taught in therapy (thx for saved time)
The rise of critical anti-intellectualism rises from people being accustomed to being in their bubble of positivity for films. Mainly childhood ones.
And I partially blame the youtubers who profit off the nostalgia around films who generally tend to always talk positively about these childhood films and also compare them to "disgusting gen alpha kids films lol", so in this bubble people just circlejerk their opinions off and reject any sort of discourse that may risk having their views challenged on the matter.
And to be honest, it's hard to blame. Like you said, it's hard to move on from movies you grew up to and liked in the past, especially with these youtubers revindicating your love for these films and preventing you from the chance of moving on from them.
Therefore shutting down/poking fun of those who disagree will be easier than honestly engaging in a discussion with them.
I agree.
Yeah, I agree with most of this video. I'm sure some people just don't care enough to be careful before they send messages online.
Art isn't subjective, a person's individual tastes are subjective.
The Godfather is an objectively better movie than Rush Hour 2.....................but I prefer Rush Hour 2.
The real problem is that most people never practice self reflection and think that something is good entirely based on whether it appealed to them.
But something can appeal to you for all sorts of reasons which have nothing to do with the art's quality.
Maybe the main character reminds you of your favorite teacher or the villain looks like your high school bully.
The subconscious mind is always affecting us.
Ever smell something and immediately get reminded of a memory you didn't even know you had?
These are just associations our mind has made subconsciously and we need to self reflect to separate ourselves from the art to see it more objectively.
Why is the Godfather objectively better than Rush Hour 2?
Art isnt just subjective,there are objective observable qualities to a story which we can analyse,such as pacing,the plotholes and so on,you can still like those pieces of media but it doesnt mean they are good or bad.
The thing is that even something truly objective like plotholes ultimately has a subjective impact. For some people it ruins the experience, others they can know about them and not care at all. Pacing also gets perceived differently, some people might love the slow pacing of a film while others get bored of it quickly. Even if you consider those to be "objective qualities", the end result is ultimately the same
@@TarlukLegion It does not matter how it impacts the person,the problem will still be there and you can point to it,its true people value different things differently but that alone doesnt tell us much about the quality of something.
It is perfectly fine to like something which isnt good,my favorite movie of all time is Revenge of the Sith,but thats a subjective analysis of things,i wouldnt tell you that its a great movie.
Does RSG just screenshot any dumb comment he sees online
They're easy to find
@@Devilm4n-cw8tvI’d say probably a 90% of comments are stupid including this one
Thank you. This has honestly been the most helpful insight I've had in a long time.
You are unironically the best UA-camr IN MY OPINION
L take bruh
4.34-4.37 actually that is a very big point of contention in the philosophy of art. there are many intellegent people who'd clim that "is it good?" is a different question than "do i like it?". though i VERY much disagree. maybe a minor point, but still; i think it's fun to discuss the smaller points too
Art is at least not entirely subjective and i know it because sometimes i can really like something and simultaneously know that it's not that good, just really struck my taste, or vice versa. I'm sure you experienced some examples of things like that too.
Based on that i argue: art is not entirely subjective.
Guys insecure test:
Spider Verse 2 is a 4/10
Kung Fu Panda 2 is a 5/10
Cyberpunk 2077 is a 5/10
One Punch Man is a 1/10
Star Wars (1977) is a 2/10
Gen V is a 2/10 (RIP Chance Perdomo)
Dark Souls 2 is a 3/10
Despicable Me is an 8/10
L take + didn't ask + you lost your credibility + you didn't get the point + bro really said this + you're objectively wrong + I'm inside your walls + I'm inside your penis
Only reason OPM isn't a 0/10 for me is season 1's animation tbh.
L takes, Uninstall life
Star Wars (1977) is a perfect movie. I don't think it's possible to improve it. Your appreciation of art is subjective, but if you're trying to give a piece of art an objective rating, then you can't be ignorant about the level of talent that was required to make it. You're allowed to just be someone who watches movies and doesn't understand how they're made, but be prepared to be mocked by knowledgeable people for it. I find simple card tricks fun and impressive, but Pen & Teller might not be impressed, and I won't go around rating magicians because I know nothing about the craft.
To be honest, I find rating the idea of rating stuff on a 10-point scale to be super silly to begin with.
L take bruh
excellent video as always rsg (2).
i never liked numeric ratings for art, tier lists are better since they're really just rating something in contrast to other things, but when words are used to justify one's opinion, that is best.
i personally really like subjective discourse, and i often overexaggerate my own feelings to the point of lunacy or satire because i think it's fun to get heated over stuff that doesn't matter just to feel something.
it would be nice if everyone were as serious and careful about observing art as you are, but then we wouldnt get any entertainment out of stupid pointless arguments.
as a side note, since i know you read your comments, a few videos back when you talked about anime writing, you mentioned seeing berserk and how it was dogass (or something to that effect, i dont remember). i know youre tastes lean towards subtle and well thought out writing specifically, and thought i'd try recommending you the berserk anime from 1997. most people say read the manga, but it's too long in my opinion, and devolved pretty quickly with bad characters and dumb power scaling tropes.
the only reason im suggesting this, is because the berserk show im assuming you have watched was the one which came out in 2016, which is extremely shit.
anyway im sorry to have written you an essay as a youtube comment. if you end up liking berserk 1997 then it would be neat to see a review and maybe you could take more recommendations for media from your comments (like recs for games and books and shit you may not have heard of). have a nice day.
I feel like this video wasted my time.
All you said was “opinions are opinions, so stop giving opinions on others opinions.”
Wtf? Isn’t that literally what this video is doing?
Very nice video man, I'm curious to see what people will think of this opinion after they watch the video.
I think, Friday Night Funkin songs are good. Yep, that's my opinion. One that I know many will heavily disagree upon. I wanted to be honest with how I feel about some songs made for fnf in topic of this video, "Art is subjective".
I listened to fnf artist called "Churgney Gurgney", ridiculous name I know, but tbh I love listening to his songs. Of course I am not fully on his boat, as I do feel he often uses vocals that are too off tune, loud or groggy. But something I feel needs to be noticed by him is the instrumentals he can create for fnf. For example, I love the song "Your copy", god I vibe with it so much, using sm64 font and piano to make an angelic, yet such a sorrowful vibe. Another example is "Red Killer", the vocals for this can feel soft and harmonic, yet also have some parts (especially Godzilla's vocals) be very ear piercing or scratchy. But DAMN do I love the cinematic feel of the instrumental, like I'm actually watching a Godzilla movie.
Basically what I'm trying to get at is, I know people will not go near fnf anymore, but I still want them to at least try. If they do not like most of the songs, fair enough, and I won't try to get you to do. I feel this video has lifted some weight off me, to be open more on opinions, and others as well. I know I will probably still hop on trains of hate or love in fear of being attacked. But I still feel as if I can slowly open up little by little more because of videos like these.
This video was really well made in my opinion, a lot more professional than most of the previous ones in my opinion. Again guys this is only my opinion.
really appreciate this way of thinking. Great video man, love your commentary.
Connection is the medicine
👋
To be fair, Adum's perspective on the ornithopters in Dune still doesn't really make sense to me, the amount of confidence he has in what futuristic vehicles made by civilizations which mastered incomprehensibly advanced technology would realistically look like just doesn't calculate.
Oh hey I wondered if I’m in this one 👋🏻😅
❤️
bro really felt some type of way 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
I don't think there is an "after you understandood a piece of art". There is always more to learn.
I would say I get what you mean, but I don't, actually.
Who would you say "understands" a piece of art? At what point does that happen?
When you can’t think of anything else to say about it, after you’ve talked for hours? He said PIECE of art, not the whole art, obviously there will be new stuff
@@СтефаноНачев No, I am saying you can never truly "understand" even a singular piece of art, that's why I quoted it as such.
Anyway, my philosophy is that art is to be experienced, not to be understood, and you can only ever get to understand your experience, not the art itself.
@@hexcodeff6624 well if that's your philosophy it's weird to ask him that, because no matter the answer you would disagree
@@СтефаноНачев Philosophies can change, that's why you discuss them
I would disagree with this conception of aesthetics and artistic appreciation. The comment you read was correct, that you can have an appreciation for a piece of art that is not to your taste. And that is sort of the distinction. Matters of taste are subjective. However, it is a taste in aesthetics, which can be analyzed objectively. I would compare art to food. You can dislike eating something, and still recognize that it is a healthy, good thing to eat. The art we absorb has an influence on our sensitivity to aesthetics and beauty. I did not like Oppenheimer subjectively, but it’s a good movie aesthetically. Opinions actually can be wrong, just not in the same way facts can be wrong. If you think that Caravaggio painted ugly paintings, that can be your opinion, but it is a wrong opinion, because beauty is not a matter of subjectivity. Your response to beauty is what is subjective, and there is a degree of reader response that can enhance your experience of a particular work, certainly, but you can account for that in an objective analysis.
That being said, I really appreciate you creating this kind of content. There is not enough dialogue around the proper way to discuss art, and you diagnose correctly that most people on the internet have no standard or nuance whatsoever when it comes to discussing art.
Bro Sounded Like Muscle Man with the L Take at the beginning,great video
L take bruh
Yeah I guess enjoyment is pretty subjective. People have different tastes. But there's still rules sometimes like setup and payoff in storytelling which things like Playstation-Man 2 kinda fail at, resulting in a story that I would say is objectively pretty badly told. Idk.
And what's the point of having online discourse if I can't shout at people for wanting Devil May Cry remakes, when my opinion that we should get new games instead is completely correct?
10.09-10.12 what do you mean by "writing"? isn't everything in a story "writing" or at least can be expressed in writing?
I’m just gonna leave this here pay me no mind
The lore of Fnaf doesn’t make sense (which btw is the only good quality of these games) and the movie is even stupider
If you think I’m rage baiting ask me why I think this way and I can explain
I’m more curious, could you explain what doesn’t make sense in the lore?
@@realchezboi ok for starters
- why Afton, the main antagonist of the franchise, turned into a serial killer, you would think he is an important character, but we don't know
- he made animatronics that can be worn to stuff corpses inside... that's literally not how animatronics work
- nobody questioned the smell and why is it coming from set animatronics, you would think that they would start to rot and btw several more restaurants under the same name were opened with nobody questioning how always children near them disappear
- the animatronics came to live (because the souls of the children literally said ,,Nah, I'd win" and refused to die) and immediately turned evil and hostile towards the player, makes you think how much in this world this happens, how many other objects have came to life
- reminent, literally everything about reminent, Afton found out that the children he stuffed inside the animatronics started to leak live juice... nonsense aside, you are telling me that since the dawn of time nobody in this world found out that the dead in this world do that?
I can go on and on, but you get the point
@@СтефаноНачевfnaf lore sucks? Wow colour me surprised. It’s clear scott cawthon did not expect the game to go the way it did and just made it up along the way
how can you tell someone is being honest about media?
If they can’t explain why they like it or dislike it, there probably not honest
Thats a broad question,im gonna take the liberty to assume you are talking about when people are saying objective things about art,you can tell if they are being honest if they propose arguments that are cosistent,if they are not and you can tell they are purposefully acting in bad faith or omitting things they are being dishonest
The TLDR for this video is art subjective when someone doesn’t like my take
bro i said to my "friends" that i don't think gta is one of the best games of all time PERSONALLY and they said "what is bro talking about"
Did Brad really think Hidden Place was that bad???
i think that your tone is WAY too combative and lacks empathy for stuff that you probably did as well, but it's overall still a very good and philosophical video, and surprisingly wholesome at the end! (well, minus the picture of the raging guy).
though i disagree about something central that you said "you can only trust the way that you feel about a piece of art". i think that if someone points something out to you that you haven't noticed or haven't thought of before then it change your opinion; it sure as hell happened to me.
art is opinionated, but my opinion is the right one
1>2 imo
Isnt art both subjective and objective.
I found this video quite thought provoking, and I wanted to give my 2 cents for anyone who cares to read.
You say in the video that the quality of art is subjective, which I think is a reasonable position to hold, but you also claim that certain types of comments are bad (L take, W opinion). I don't think you can logically hold both of those positions at the same time.
What makes a youtube comment fundamentally different than a TV show, that one's quality is objective and the other is subjective? How does it differ from judging someone's actions as good or bad morally? None of these judgments have a factual, basis, and if you drill down into any of these for long enough, you'll find that you call them bad because you don't like them. (i.e. Murder is bad, Why? Because it's unjust for the victims and their relatives, Why is injustice bad? Because I don't like it)
That's an example of my own philosophical process, and you're free to have your own, but I don't see how, logically, you can believe art is subjective, and morality is objective. It's either all subjective, or all objective.
For my part, I believe it's all subjective, but as I stated above, I think unfair things are bad. I believe it's unfair to say that the movie Megamind 2 is of the same quality as the movie Wall-E, therefore I'll call Megamind 2 bad, and Wall-E good. I think it's unfair because one clearly had more thought, effort and talent behind its creation, and I believe those traits should be recognized and rewarded.
That's why, despite me not liking any romance movies, I won't call the genre bad, because I recognize the efforts that go into those movies, and it would go against my philosophical view of the world to call them bad.
That's how I can hold the position "I dislike something but still think it's good" with a functioning brain.
Based
I just wanna say I have a LOT of opinions and people have always argued with me like crazy. Thing is people are stupid and are sheep, everyone has there opinions mine is that Star Wars’s Andor is peak. So FREAKING WATCH IT.
Andor being peak isn’t even a hot take lol, it’s just still very obscure for some reason despite so many people praising it
dude called people stupid sheep and then misspelled "their" in the same sentence
@@jacobmagana4258 grammar isn't imperative to the point he's making, he's talking about stupidity as the inability to critically think for yourself, not how to use there/their/they're
@@realchezboi i don't care i love making ad hominem arguments
@@jacobmagana4258 Womp womp. Bro most morons you will meet on the day to day basis are sheep. Deny yourself and pick up yo cross.
thats a subjective opinion
As always, another banger
I gree
L take bro
@@AscendingAbove1
Nobody asked you.
Bro
What is your opinion on Darkviperau
Bruh those cw flash fans that start getting mad and call you a meat rider just cause you think the character is inconsistent
Let’s find out (Dark souls 3 > elden ring)
Riding hate/love trains and not forming your own opinion or thinking about how YOU enjoy something is straight caveman behaviour tbh
I am not gonna watch this video, but I am gonna say "subject these nuts lmao"... subject these nuts lmao. Idk what subjective discourse is. Is it like those master-kitten people on My Little Pony discord servers?
L take bruh
@@animelover5585thanks bruh. I am literally L from Death Note. I look like him even when I'm not cosplaying him because we're just so similar.
L
L
WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING!!?
nah, with no the one correct opinion to compare, then every opinion is meaningless, whats the point of opinioning then?
L take
whoa! look it's me in the video! hi mom, I'm on the T.V.s! very ebpic april fools video broh.
I don't have to convince you you're wrong
I just have to convince you I've thought about it enough to where you won't try to respond
doing that in short order to satisfy our tweet-centric one-liner obsessed world though...I don't like it either
W take broski
W take
L take frfr never let bro cook again
one punch man is so funny
Uh, actually, your opinion is objectively wrong because my subjective opinion is objectively right because I said so
Play fortnite with me bro
this video is wrong
L TAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
L take bruh
L video
Good points but i just say you drawn as a sojak... so L video
Nope, you are nitpicking and biased, I win bye bye.