Perfect explanation... Good answer for this question if everything has a creator then who created God...the answer is if everything has a creator that's mental assumption then it should be something which has no creator.. but if it doesn't exist ( anything without creator) then the world is imperfect cz by logic everything what we think and can be possible in the universe so this argument ( something without creator) must also exist that is God.
Hare Krsna! I understood the argument, but can you please explain the "infinite dependencies" logic more elaborately? It kind of went over my head. Śrīla Madhvācārya's siddhānta is quite fascinating, haribol!
Haraye Namaha. As said already, every object is composite and has a chain of dependencies. A piece of wood is made up of particles of wood, which are made of molecules bonded to each other and they are composed of atoms, and so on. Now, if this chain is infinite and never ends, it would imply that these objects in question cannot exist at all, because the property of existence has to come through infinite dependencies first, while infinity cannot end. In other words, if you are aware of a game like "passing the parcel," let's suppose X is the property of existence. For object A to exist, X has to pass through the chain through infinite dependencies. However, infinity has no end at all and so, A cannot exist!
@@bhaktideets precisely so. This is what the Buddhists call sunyam or empty of swabhava or inherent existence. A fundamental principle where Nagarjuna's sunyata separates out from the 6 darshanas of sanatan dharma 🙏🙏
I am learning dvaitha since 5 months can you Please make a video Yog Vashistha, avadhut gita and ashtavakra gita because in my view they not only embrace non dualism but also claim dualism to be illusion
Haraye Namaha. All of them are inauthentic texts and not quoted by any pre-15th century bhaashyakaras. Almost all non-Smaartas have dismissed the authenticity of the Yoga Vaasishtha.
Hare Krishna Prabhu ji, I have a question, why are we assuming the last entity in the dependency chain to be para-brahman? It could be said that it's some matter that doesn't depend upon anything which science is trying to find. Why all of a sudden some spiritual entity is introduced when we are equally blind to both matter and non-matter at that level of existence?
Haraye Namaha. Precisely, that itself is the definition of Para Brahman, as stated in the Vedaanta Sutras. He is the causeless cause of all entities. Brahman being a Personality like Shri Vishnu is a different topic altogether and is a tenet of Vaishnavism.
Sir Content is Great , I love it , We want more people like you , but I have few suggestions, Improve editing and Adjust the voice according to it slowly so we can understand easily with the video and use any classical music instrumental any choice of your, even it's not added that okay use music atleast while transition , that's it ,Jai Shree Krushna 🙏🚩
This is a Nyāya argument, mentioned in the Nyāya Sūtras. The sūtras go into a lot of detail, it's quite a fun read. But as others mentioned, this is an epistemological argument, not an empirical one.
All this sounds reasonable swāmi, I agree. However, my question if we apply this logic of infinity that you had explained here, then technically we the souls, the universe and basically anything that's called eternal in our Shāstra shouldn't technically exist as they are all referred to as beginningless, be it God himself, Us ourselves, The World, Karma etc,. So how do we answer and reconcile this?
Haraye Namaha. Both are unrelated. We are talking about Brahman being the root cause of existence for all entities. What does that have to do with them existing since eternity? Since eternity, all other entities are dependent on Him.
That's why Advita is true, there is only brahman and nothing else, we are ignorant of true nature, there is no creation vs creator both are one and same.
Haraye Namaha. Disagreed by the Shaastras, FYI. स सर्वभूतप्रकृतिं विकारान्गुणादिदोषांश्च मुने व्यतीतः । "He is discrete from all the living entities and physical matter, as well as defective qualities and faults, O Muni." -Vishnu Puraana, Amsha 6, Adhyaaya 5, Shlokas 83-84 द्वाविमौ पुरुषौ लोके क्षरश्चाक्षर एव च । क्षरः सर्वाणि भूतानि कूटस्थोक्षर उच्यते ॥ उत्तमः पुरुषस्त्वन्यः परमात्मेत्युदाहृतः । यो लोकत्रयमाविश्य बिभर्त्यव्यय ईश्वरः ॥ यस्मात्क्षरमतीतोऽहमक्षरादपि चोत्तमः । (Shri Krshna said): “There are only two Persons in this Loka - the perishable (kshara) and imperishable (akshara). Kshara refers to all the living entities and their support is said to be akshara. But the Highest Person is another entity, who is understood to be Paramaatma, who dwells within the three Lokas and is the immutable Eeshvara. Due to this, I am superior to both the perishable as well as the imperishable." -Bhagavat Geeta, Adhyaaya 15, Shlokas 16-18
“If Creator is independent, then how can He be the cause of anything? And if He is dependent on being a cause, is He then truly independent?” If the Creator is the cause of all causes, from where does his causelessness arise? What thing can stand alone, free from all causes? Even the notion of Creator as ‘causeless’ depends upon the minds of those who declare it so. Where is the causelessness if it relies on words to be known. If Creator is so omnipotent and independent, can He exist without your belief?” Everything arises in dependence on causes and conditions.
Haraye Namaha. The cause of all causes SHOULD BE independent. He cannot be a dependent entity, as explained already, because it leads to the issue of infinite regression. The end point of the chain of dependencies of the objects in the universe, is Paramaatma. As simple as that. If the chain is infinite, it means that there is no way to reach the cause of existence for these objects and it would imply that cannot exist at all.
The creator definitely exists even if someone don't cares for his existence or denies him. As already known, the Parmatma is Omnipotent, then by the power of his omnipotence he must exist! Because a entity who have all power also have the power to exist in every space and time
Haraye Namaha. That is refuted in the second Adhyaaya of the Brahma Sutras and we already know that even atoms are composite particles. Sub-atomic particles too are. A limited quantity of atoms will constitute only a limited number of objects. For instance, you can only obtain 18 grams of water from one mole of water molecules. You cannot obtain even a fraction of a gram more than that. One particular atom or sub-atomic particles is not the cause of existence for everything and is one of the dependencies for that particular molecule alone.
This is the old "complex creator" argument. It goes something like if wall came from bricks and bricks from mud every older layer we see it gets simpler and simpler. Now how can a very complex thing as narayana (God) be real at the end if one was to follow this line of thinking then whatever is at the end has to be even simpler. Simpler than mud, simpler than atoms or it's sub atoms, and not as complex as God. Please clarify on this. Thankyou
Haraye Namaha. This doesn't have much to do with that argument. This is about Bhagavaan being the cause of existence for all entities in the universe. They were never created, because they are eternal. And the entities do not become simpler at all. If one studies molecular biology, the DNA, cellular organelles, etc., are very complex for that matter! The fact is the items in the chain of dependencies here becomes more and more common. For instance, all objects comprise of atoms and all atoms have subatomic particles. Similarly, every single particle if pervaded by Paramaatma.
In Madhva sampradaya, Radharani's name was consider as Neela devi . Who is the one of Gopika stree and also count as Lord Krishna's main six wives like, jambuvati, laxmana, vadhra, mitravinda, kalindi and Neela devi ( in north India consider as Radharani ).
Haraye Namaha. What do you mean? All Aastika darshanas accept the existence of Shiva and other Devatas. No one denies it. Raadha's identity is disputed, but we consider her to be actually based on Neela Devi.
This argument encroaches into the field of science. And science does have an answer: elementary particles like electrons have no further parts and the chain ends there. And they are not 'made up' of energy or something. They are disturbances in quantum fields. Elementary particles have no parts and are not made up of anything in the traditional sense. They are not dependent on any 'thing' but are caused by energy supplied to quantum fields, and that supply was caused by the random evolution of universe through time. So I would like to ask madhavacharya if electrons and photons are his god. If yes, then unfortunately your god is very material, sir. Madhavacharya was not at all wrong, it was just that his philosophy was incomplete, but his philosophy was already completed by advaita even before madhavacharya gave it. But still his philosophy highlights an important aspect of advaita philosophy, just that it ignores advaita's other aspects.
#bhaktideets , Harayah Namah 🙏🙏 Can we prove existance of atma and God with sakshi praman .Because Acharya's perception is that, every people have an pure sence organ which is sakshi. sakshi is the atma which are pure and his knowledge are not false any time or situation.but mind , intelligence become false few moments . But they were depend on sakshi . We experience happiness or sadness this sakshi praman. Similarly can we speak this word that, atma's nature is Sat (eternal), chit (consciousness) and ananda ( bliss) and Vishnu is also have this but it is infinite level, this is the difference between jiva and vishnu. Because jiva is the reflection of Vishnu. However Every jiva desires that try not to get sorrows at an any time, He not to get death himself and his loverones, enen this type thought is doing also has an atheists mind those are not belived in existence of God. But pramanas will talk us that our desiring every subject exists in this world like, if we have eyes then subject of sight is here , if we have nose then smell is here , similarly pervades us this sat chit and ananda thought prove that existence of lord presence . Can we put this type argument with Sakshi pramanam ??
Haraye Namaha. Not really. Are we qualified enough like the Rshis or Aparoksha jnaanis to have the darshana of Paramaatma? We obviously cannot see Him directly to do so. But yes, we can experience the influence of Paramaatma in our lives through spiritual practices mentioned in the Shaastras. However, that is not the topic here. The topic here is about the concept of Paramaatma.
The argument does not empirically prove that God exists; rather, it suggests that if a being like God exists, that existence must be necessary. It relies on logic and definitions rather than empirical evidence. Therefore, it’s a conceptual or a priori argument rather than an empirical proof.
Haraye Namaha. Both have no relation. Evil exists because people have different svabhaavas. Some are good by nature and some are materialistic or evil by nature. It's how the souls are and Eeshvara has nothing to do with it.
Haraye Namaha. Not so. The jeevas are eternal and their svabhaava is also eternal. What role does Paramaatma even have here excrpt allowing them to do what they want?
Haraye Namaha. The same context is mentioned in the Vishnu Puraana's 4th Adhyaaya, because it says Brahmaa is 'Naaraayanaatmaka'. In other words, since Shri Vishnu is the Antaryaami of Brahmaa Deva, His Antaryaami (Vishnu) is referred to as Naaraayana.
Sir This is all old religions. This is all about old traditions. Come out of it 🤣 Earth is 4 billion years old. 1 billion years it has taken to Human beings 😅. From bacteria 🦠 to Human beings it has taken 1 billion years. Buddha was real person. He was practical.
Haraye Namaha. Even our philosophers were real people only, and our "old religions and traditions" have practical philosophical knowledge and yes, the Earth is billions of years old. What's your point? 😂
@bhaktideets this is called delusion that there's no logical way to debunk it. I think you don't know that the argument you are presenting is another form of Kalam cosmological argument and that argument is debunked 1000s of times over the last one century at least.
Haraye Namaha. The argument given here is based on simple logic and there's no "delusion" involved. If you have some proper argument, explain it properly rather than beating around the bush.
Perfect explanation... Good answer for this question if everything has a creator then who created God...the answer is if everything has a creator that's mental assumption then it should be something which has no creator.. but if it doesn't exist ( anything without creator) then the world is imperfect cz by logic everything what we think and can be possible in the universe so this argument ( something without creator) must also exist that is God.
Hari Sarvottam Vayu jeevotama🙏
Hari Sarvottam Vayu jivottam
This is the content I love! Thank you for making this brother. Much love to you ❤️
Jai Shri Krishna
Jai Sriman Narayana 🙏❤
Hare Rama ❤️
Dandavat pranam Prabhu❤
Please accept my humrble obeisances
Hare Krishna 🙏✨ absolutely great information 🙏✨🌹 Sri Hari bless you infinite 🙏✨🌹 Hare Krishna 🙏✨💐
jay shree ram
Please make video on Mata Laxmi tatva
🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
🙏🙏🙏🙏
Hare Krsna!
I understood the argument, but can you please explain the "infinite dependencies" logic more elaborately? It kind of went over my head. Śrīla Madhvācārya's siddhānta is quite fascinating, haribol!
Haraye Namaha.
As said already, every object is composite and has a chain of dependencies. A piece of wood is made up of particles of wood, which are made of molecules bonded to each other and they are composed of atoms, and so on. Now, if this chain is infinite and never ends, it would imply that these objects in question cannot exist at all, because the property of existence has to come through infinite dependencies first, while infinity cannot end.
In other words, if you are aware of a game like "passing the parcel," let's suppose X is the property of existence. For object A to exist, X has to pass through the chain through infinite dependencies. However, infinity has no end at all and so, A cannot exist!
@bhaktideets Ah. I got it now, thank you so much! Haraye Namah
@@bhaktideets precisely so. This is what the Buddhists call sunyam or empty of swabhava or inherent existence. A fundamental principle where Nagarjuna's sunyata separates out from the 6 darshanas of sanatan dharma 🙏🙏
I am learning dvaitha since 5 months can you Please make a video Yog Vashistha, avadhut gita and ashtavakra gita because in my view they not only embrace non dualism but also claim dualism to be illusion
Haraye Namaha.
All of them are inauthentic texts and not quoted by any pre-15th century bhaashyakaras. Almost all non-Smaartas have dismissed the authenticity of the Yoga Vaasishtha.
Hare Krishna Prabhu ji,
I have a question, why are we assuming the last entity in the dependency chain to be para-brahman? It could be said that it's some matter that doesn't depend upon anything which science is trying to find. Why all of a sudden some spiritual entity is introduced when we are equally blind to both matter and non-matter at that level of existence?
Haraye Namaha.
Precisely, that itself is the definition of Para Brahman, as stated in the Vedaanta Sutras. He is the causeless cause of all entities. Brahman being a Personality like Shri Vishnu is a different topic altogether and is a tenet of Vaishnavism.
Sir Content is Great , I love it , We want more people like you , but I have few suggestions, Improve editing and Adjust the voice according to it slowly so we can understand easily with the video and use any classical music instrumental any choice of your, even it's not added that okay use music atleast while transition , that's it ,Jai Shree Krushna 🙏🚩
This is a Nyāya argument, mentioned in the Nyāya Sūtras. The sūtras go into a lot of detail, it's quite a fun read.
But as others mentioned, this is an epistemological argument, not an empirical one.
are more agruments given by madhvacharya ?
All this sounds reasonable swāmi, I agree. However, my question if we apply this logic of infinity that you had explained here, then technically we the souls, the universe and basically anything that's called eternal in our Shāstra shouldn't technically exist as they are all referred to as beginningless, be it God himself, Us ourselves, The World, Karma etc,.
So how do we answer and reconcile this?
Haraye Namaha.
Both are unrelated. We are talking about Brahman being the root cause of existence for all entities. What does that have to do with them existing since eternity? Since eternity, all other entities are dependent on Him.
That's why Advita is true, there is only brahman and nothing else, we are ignorant of true nature, there is no creation vs creator both are one and same.
Haraye Namaha.
Disagreed by the Shaastras, FYI.
स सर्वभूतप्रकृतिं विकारान्गुणादिदोषांश्च मुने व्यतीतः ।
"He is discrete from all the living entities and physical matter, as well as defective qualities and faults, O Muni."
-Vishnu Puraana, Amsha 6, Adhyaaya 5, Shlokas 83-84
द्वाविमौ पुरुषौ लोके क्षरश्चाक्षर एव च ।
क्षरः सर्वाणि भूतानि कूटस्थोक्षर उच्यते ॥
उत्तमः पुरुषस्त्वन्यः परमात्मेत्युदाहृतः ।
यो लोकत्रयमाविश्य बिभर्त्यव्यय ईश्वरः ॥
यस्मात्क्षरमतीतोऽहमक्षरादपि चोत्तमः ।
(Shri Krshna said): “There are only two Persons in this Loka - the perishable (kshara) and imperishable (akshara). Kshara refers to all the living entities and their support is said to be akshara. But the Highest Person is another entity, who is understood to be Paramaatma, who dwells within the three Lokas and is the immutable Eeshvara. Due to this, I am superior to both the perishable as well as the imperishable."
-Bhagavat Geeta, Adhyaaya 15, Shlokas 16-18
@@bhaktideets hmm I see swāmi. Thank you 🙏. Namo Nārāyaṇa 🙏
“If Creator is independent, then how can He be the cause of anything? And if He is dependent on being a cause, is He then truly independent?” If the Creator is the cause of all causes, from where does his causelessness arise? What thing can stand alone, free from all causes? Even the notion of Creator as ‘causeless’ depends upon the minds of those who declare it so. Where is the causelessness if it relies on words to be known. If Creator is so omnipotent and independent, can He exist without your belief?”
Everything arises in dependence on causes and conditions.
Haraye Namaha.
The cause of all causes SHOULD BE independent. He cannot be a dependent entity, as explained already, because it leads to the issue of infinite regression. The end point of the chain of dependencies of the objects in the universe, is Paramaatma. As simple as that. If the chain is infinite, it means that there is no way to reach the cause of existence for these objects and it would imply that cannot exist at all.
The creator definitely exists even if someone don't cares for his existence or denies him.
As already known, the Parmatma is Omnipotent, then by the power of his omnipotence he must exist!
Because a entity who have all power also have the power to exist in every space and time
Harey namah,
What if someone say atoms or sub atomic particles is the base? not paramatma? Then how to prove them?
Haraye Namaha.
That is refuted in the second Adhyaaya of the Brahma Sutras and we already know that even atoms are composite particles. Sub-atomic particles too are. A limited quantity of atoms will constitute only a limited number of objects. For instance, you can only obtain 18 grams of water from one mole of water molecules. You cannot obtain even a fraction of a gram more than that. One particular atom or sub-atomic particles is not the cause of existence for everything and is one of the dependencies for that particular molecule alone.
This is the old "complex creator" argument. It goes something like if wall came from bricks and bricks from mud every older layer we see it gets simpler and simpler. Now how can a very complex thing as narayana (God) be real at the end if one was to follow this line of thinking then whatever is at the end has to be even simpler. Simpler than mud, simpler than atoms or it's sub atoms, and not as complex as God.
Please clarify on this. Thankyou
Haraye Namaha.
This doesn't have much to do with that argument. This is about Bhagavaan being the cause of existence for all entities in the universe. They were never created, because they are eternal.
And the entities do not become simpler at all. If one studies molecular biology, the DNA, cellular organelles, etc., are very complex for that matter! The fact is the items in the chain of dependencies here becomes more and more common. For instance, all objects comprise of atoms and all atoms have subatomic particles. Similarly, every single particle if pervaded by Paramaatma.
Jagat ka Kaunsa karan hai aapka ishvar??
Haraye Namaha.
Jagat ka astitva ka. Videome hi bataaya gaya hai.
@@bhaktideets nimmit ya upadan?
Haraye Namaha.
Nimitta kaarana.
Do you beleive in radha ji and sankar ji
In Madhva sampradaya, Radharani's name was consider as Neela devi . Who is the one of Gopika stree and also count as Lord Krishna's main six wives like, jambuvati, laxmana, vadhra, mitravinda, kalindi and Neela devi ( in north India consider as Radharani ).
Haraye Namaha.
What do you mean? All Aastika darshanas accept the existence of Shiva and other Devatas. No one denies it. Raadha's identity is disputed, but we consider her to be actually based on Neela Devi.
Prabhuji how can i text you personally. I have lot of doubts
Haraye Namaha.
You can email us (info@bhaktideets.org), message us on Instagram or Twitter, or join our Telegram community to do so.
Is jishnu another name of indra or arjuna
Haraye Namaha.
Arjuna and Indra are the same person. Arjuna is an aavesha of Indra and Nara.
This argument encroaches into the field of science. And science does have an answer: elementary particles like electrons have no further parts and the chain ends there. And they are not 'made up' of energy or something. They are disturbances in quantum fields. Elementary particles have no parts and are not made up of anything in the traditional sense. They are not dependent on any 'thing' but are caused by energy supplied to quantum fields, and that supply was caused by the random evolution of universe through time. So I would like to ask madhavacharya if electrons and photons are his god. If yes, then unfortunately your god is very material, sir. Madhavacharya was not at all wrong, it was just that his philosophy was incomplete, but his philosophy was already completed by advaita even before madhavacharya gave it. But still his philosophy highlights an important aspect of advaita philosophy, just that it ignores advaita's other aspects.
#bhaktideets , Harayah Namah 🙏🙏 Can we prove existance of atma and God with sakshi praman .Because Acharya's perception is that, every people have an pure sence organ which is sakshi. sakshi is the atma which are pure and his knowledge are not false any time or situation.but mind , intelligence become false few moments . But they were depend on sakshi . We experience happiness or sadness this sakshi praman.
Similarly can we speak this word that, atma's nature is Sat (eternal), chit (consciousness) and ananda ( bliss) and Vishnu is also have this but it is infinite level, this is the difference between jiva and vishnu. Because jiva is the reflection of Vishnu. However Every jiva desires that try not to get sorrows at an any time, He not to get death himself and his loverones, enen this type thought is doing also has an atheists mind those are not belived in existence of God. But pramanas will talk us that our desiring every subject exists in this world like, if we have eyes then subject of sight is here , if we have nose then smell is here , similarly pervades us this sat chit and ananda thought prove that existence of lord presence . Can we put this type argument with Sakshi pramanam ??
Haraye Namaha.
Not really. Are we qualified enough like the Rshis or Aparoksha jnaanis to have the darshana of Paramaatma? We obviously cannot see Him directly to do so. But yes, we can experience the influence of Paramaatma in our lives through spiritual practices mentioned in the Shaastras. However, that is not the topic here. The topic here is about the concept of Paramaatma.
The argument does not empirically prove that God exists; rather, it suggests that if a being like God exists, that existence must be necessary. It relies on logic and definitions rather than empirical evidence. Therefore, it’s a conceptual or a priori argument rather than an empirical proof.
Haraye Namaha.
We never said either it's any empirical evidence. It's a philosophical argument for the concept of Brahman/God.
Why does evil exists if Creator is mercifull.
Haraye Namaha.
Both have no relation. Evil exists because people have different svabhaavas. Some are good by nature and some are materialistic or evil by nature. It's how the souls are and Eeshvara has nothing to do with it.
@bhaktideets If Eashwara is the creator of the universe and the prime cause then Evil is also created by Eashwara.
Haraye Namaha.
Not so. The jeevas are eternal and their svabhaava is also eternal. What role does Paramaatma even have here excrpt allowing them to do what they want?
@bhaktideets Who created Jiva and Svabhavas?
Haraye Namaha.
No one created them. That's what we just said.
not convincing ....
Problem of infinity can be managed through REAL ANALYSIS.
The chain may be long but not infinite.
Haraye Namaha.
That's exactly what we said. The chain cannot be infinite, as it leads to the issue of infinite regression as said already.
Tattvas means entites really?? 😢
Haraye Namaha.
Yes.
Harivamsha chapter1 verse twenty eight says brahma is narayaana not vishnu
Haraye Namaha.
The same context is mentioned in the Vishnu Puraana's 4th Adhyaaya, because it says Brahmaa is 'Naaraayanaatmaka'. In other words, since Shri Vishnu is the Antaryaami of Brahmaa Deva, His Antaryaami (Vishnu) is referred to as Naaraayana.
Sir
This is all old religions.
This is all about old traditions.
Come out of it 🤣
Earth is 4 billion years old. 1 billion years it has
taken to Human beings 😅. From bacteria 🦠 to Human beings it has taken 1 billion years.
Buddha was real person. He was practical.
Haraye Namaha.
Even our philosophers were real people only, and our "old religions and traditions" have practical philosophical knowledge and yes, the Earth is billions of years old. What's your point? 😂
This argument is debunked thousands of times...😂 Bring something new...😅
Haraye Namaha.
Where, saar? Last I checked, there is no logical method to even refute it.
@bhaktideets this is called delusion that there's no logical way to debunk it. I think you don't know that the argument you are presenting is another form of Kalam cosmological argument and that argument is debunked 1000s of times over the last one century at least.
Haraye Namaha.
The argument given here is based on simple logic and there's no "delusion" involved. If you have some proper argument, explain it properly rather than beating around the bush.
absolutely perfect and simple explanation of his concept do you also have instagram where I can contact you to ask some questions?
Haraye Namaha.
Yes, our Instagram handle is @bhaktideets