Part 1 is here: ua-cam.com/video/2S-kQ_7AWVY/v-deo.html Best light ebike round-up in handling, descending, features and integration with Specialized Levo SL vs. Santa Cruz Heckler sl vs. Trek Fuel EXe vs. Orbea Rise vs. Transition Relay vs. Pivot Shuttle SL Buy through these links to help Emtb Review: Santa Cruz Heckler sl - alnk.to/7qjfK3S Trek Fuel EXe Direct - bit.ly/3VWF7rc Orbea Rise H30 for $3999 from Jenson - alnk.to/dAlM4CU Pivot Shuttle SL from Competitive - alnk.to/bEhrhGd Specialized Levo SL - click.linksynergy.com/link?id=vigtlsOioGE&offerid=1262556.491872065517930&bids=1262556.491872065517930&type=2&murl=https%3a%2f%2fwww.specialized.com%2fus%2fen%2fturbo-levo-sl-expert-carbon%2fp%2f216819%3fcolor%3d428355-216819%26searchText%3d96822-3001 Ebike options at JensonUSA - bit.ly/41qC1wE Chain and drivetrain parts - bit.ly/3prhCu8 Chain lube options - bit.ly/3BazADF Dropper posts - bit.ly/3MazOBc Rider protection - bit.ly/3NSgSsb
sadly its also a bit incorrect. f.e. the relay does support the range extender (which is not yet available from fazua). Rattle are cables, not motor or mount. Zip ties .. fix it. Depends on who assembled the bike basically. Maybe its because this channel tested it a long time ago vs the rest. I get the Relay PNW before any other bike for the most capable bike, the shuttle SL for the niche downcountry indeed, and thuss its between the Levo and Heckler SL in my mind for the trail-ish bikes. Orbea used to be the only one, but I find these bikes are just better. The Trek's fine too but the motor and battery don't cut it.
These 2 videos just saved me hours of research! Thank you for throwing them on a scale a couple of these didn't list it on their site. Also love the theoretical breakdown of ascent capabilities. Keep it up!
Excellent 2 part shootout fc! Love your passion and “no bones left unpicked” coverage of the details. Very keen of you to call out how important dealer support is on these bikes too! Ride quality for the win... I’m getting some clarity on the TR Relay RE port. The port is there, but I think there is a Fazua wire harnessy part that will need to be installed before the RE can be mounted and used, when it finally makes it’s debut... post supplier channel woes... Fun fact. TR’s nickname for the battery level lights? Nuggs In context: “How many nuggs you got left?” “Oh, I’ve still got three nuggs bro!”
Good stuff. Glad to see so many great options coming out. I purchased a Rise H a couple of years ago, and, so far, nothing is making me have buyers remorse. I purchased the least expensive option knowing I’d be changing out stuff and I think even after that, it would add up to less than some of the lowest options on the newer bikes. Yes, I hate the motor rattle and the dealer support issue is real, but man is this thing fun. I’ll probably de-restrict the motor at some point for the heck of it, which is an option the other bikes don’t have.
Awesome Review! I also appreciate your climb tests and trying to control as many variables as possible. This really is the best test I’ve seen to really compare the efficiency, speed, and extrapolation of range so far. Could it be more precise and scientific? Absolutely. But who has time for that? I’m just glad you are taking the time to do what you are doing. The transparency is also great. I’ve been hearing about the Orbea problem with dealers from other channels and that completely turned me off to them. That’s a shame. I hope they can get that turned around. I have a question for you Francis. ride a gen 1 KSL and love it but I find myself not riding it as much as I used to because it really requires gnarlier fast trails that aren’t as convenient to me. I’m also coming off a serious shoulder injury and now I’m looking to buy or build up another mid weight Emtb. I love what you have done with getting the Levo SL super light (32lbs!) I would love to get one of these down to 37ish pounds. You think I could do that on the Levo SL or Heckler SL (doubt it) with out removing the battery?
Right on. Full range battery testing is very difficult as well since it is hard for the rider to maintain consistent power output for the whole battery, and be consistent across many bikes. The bigger problem is all these bikes behave differently once they hit 20% battery level. They all kind of throttle down but at different points and assist levels. Yeah, I had the Kenevo SL gen 1 too. I ended up not riding it much since I didn't have the terrain. Also, it was noisy and weak. For a 37ish lb bike, the Levo SL gen 2 and Pivot Shuttle SL can definitely get there. It will take a lot of money though unless you go to weight weenie tires. The Heckler SL is about 3 lbs heavier.
Living in Norway, the possibility to take out the battery to store inside was a factor when buying my Relay. We have cold winters here and the shed is only insulated not heated, and batteries don't do well in the cold. Can confirm uphill jank on snow and ice due to more speed and wheelspin, that was a new experience 😅
Definitely a key consideration. Batteries are unsafe to charge at very cold temperatures. Sub zero temps will put the battery at 60% of its capacity. If it is charged to 100% at that temp, when the temperature goes to normal levels, the battery voltage will rise to very dangerous levels. Here in the US. Tesla outdoor fast chargers just refused to charge ANY car at subzero temps. Owners were shocked why.
Similarly for us in California, my garage in summer day when we hit 37-45C outside , inside garage is roster oven, not good for battery health. Manufacturers don't care at all about this common engineering sense.
Super nice job man! I think about getting a levo sl, or a kenevo sl, but I have to remind myself I'm 235 pounds and 6'2". My first levo sl was a good bike, but the power and range was terrible for me.
Are you sure about the extender support for the Transition? On my Heckler SL there is a rubber plug on the downtube just under the water bottle cage. I think that plug will be where the port will be located. I dont think the extender will be plugged into the charge port since there is no clearance for the crank arm.
I'm really interested to see a review of a lightweight bike with the new Bosch Performance Line SX. The 2024 Norco Fluid VLT in 140/150 travel could be contender in this space.
Absolutely. It's looking like the Performance Line SX is destined to take the middleweight crown this year. It would be a coup if they sell that platform with sufficient inventory this year. And even more important, if the extender is available at launch.
Congrat to you/your videos. Your comments are very qualified and I feel supported and with an open neutral and critical POV. good to see you again comming from the emtb previous channel. I have an important question, perhaps you can help me. I own a SL 1st generation. It's possible to upgrade the motor for the new one? are other components needed? Would Specialized support their customers that have spend a lot of money in a still valid ebike that only after 2 years has been so stream devaluted??? thanks in advance!!!
I don’t get it. Looking at the times, Orbea Rise clearly rises above most others, by a whole lot! So what’s with the spit balling on how great the other bikes are?
I've been riding that Orbea Rise for a year and it's just ok when it comes to ride quality and fun factor. It does offer a great price point and range especially for someone who just have one bike and wants to ride with full-powered riders. Dealer situation is getting worse and three friends now have cracked alloy chainstays.
Have you swung a leg over the Mondraker Neat yet? Seems to me it could be the Goldilocks zone for me: Plenty of travel, removable battery, range extender option, great integration, quiet motor, looks stunning… it’s like the Swiss Army knife of lightweight EMTBs!
No. Mondraker was always ahead of the game on emtbs. But their presence in the US seems to be so small that I may not get the chance. I'm finding local dealer support is a very key consideration with ebikes. Cause they need much support. :)
sl levo at $14k? i have 3 specialized bikes but that's out of my price point . i need a sl with small frame and i have always liked the specialized frame but i need a lighter bike with 120mm or 140 mullet - at 40pounds or less. what is there?
The Giant Trance X Advance EL+ is seriously the way to go also rider support for Giant is great since you have to go through your LBS I watch all your vids and even though you didn’t try the Giant everything on paper beats these bikes 400wh battery 200wh extender all together 600wh and a full power motor sz large out the box for the base build is 43.4lbs without extender or pedals Giant for the win
We asked Giant several times for a test bike but they didn't send one. We'd love to test it for sure. Friends are claiming it is heavier with less range than spec sheet claims.
With longer travel, 140mm plush rear shock and 160mm fork, it handles steep stuff much better. Top tube is shortish with that seat angle and it gets shorter when slackened. It would do better at 64 degree head angle. Friends have mulleted it but it's not ideal since the chainstays are longish anyway at 445mm. It rides better for sure and it would be a lot more compelling if Orbea updated this bike and geometry.
@@rogeronehope4u581 one option that makes the bike better in so many ways for anything but the 2023 carbon models is the Cascade Components link. Improves the stiffness of bike, makes it a bit more progressive and increases travel to 150mm with the stock shock size. Best $290 I've spent in a while on a bike!
Love your reviews was hoping the Giant advanced E+ Elite may have been included as classed as lightweight EMTB , but assume as its 85nm opposed to 50 to 60nm was one of the reasons it wasnt. im considering this or specialized levo or levo SL for my first EMTB
This was not the reason. He explained Giant didn’t send him one probably because he does such a good test on the climbing speed and efficiency of these bikes. I too was interested in this bike. BikersEdge does a good shoot out of 4 mid Mtb’s and including the giant. The talk about range and give some good numbers you can extrapolate. Best info I’ve seen on the range of this bike. Spoiler, it’s not great due to having a full 85 nm motor. It’s not efficient but it has other amazing strengths some are obvious.
That’s why I bought the giant it’s seriously a great bike and you have the option of full power or SL power 400wh battery and with a 200wh extender to make it 600wh is a no brainer it’s seriously a great bike
I’ve tested Transition Relay and that FAZUA motor whine was annoying as hell. Maybe this was just my case but I’ve also heard the same sound signature in Loam Wolf review. This and Ali’s express controller is no go for me.
The fact about the lightweight e-bike and normal full power e-bike is that the “lightweight” is not lightweight at all. You need the 160wh extender battery to reach the range of a full power ebike and the extender is 1.1 kilograms. And with that included, the bike becomes 19-20kilograms and full power Sworks carbon Specialized Levo weighs about 22 kg. Only a 2-3 kg difference gives you full performance hill climb. 👍🏻
Good comment. They can be 10 lbs lighter but they're losing most of the weight with the battery. The biggest compromise of mid-powered bikes then is range and that is just the nature of the beast. Their solution for range is extender batteries and that is a good thing. Make batteries modular since riders don't need 750wh of range in the majority of mtb rides. I made a video about it here: ua-cam.com/video/rn-tR_L5cis/v-deo.html
@@EMTBReview Yes extender batteries are good 👍🏻 I don’t have negative opinion about them. You can take the extender battery to plane trip. That is good. You can check and review the new Scott Lumen Ebike which weighs 15,5 kg. That can be the “lightweight” we desire for Xc rides I think.
It depends on how/what you ride. The vast majority of the rides I do are 1-2.5 hour trail rips and I’d much rather do that on a lighter bike (no extender required). The difference in feel between 18kg and 23kg is really noticeable to me. There is no universally correct option but lightweight EMTBs absolutely have their place… otherwise manufacturers wouldn’t sell any of them.
@@federaldelii the Scott Lumen and the Trek E-Caliber have very limited appeal I think. They're 30 lbs but they have very little power and range that they don't serve a purpose anymore as they don't do anything well. Power is weak and the battery only lasts about 3000 feet at most. And then they have motor drag and weight so it's no fun to ride them with motor off. The rider is much better served riding a 22 lb XC mountain bike. Can tackle 4000-8000 ft climbing rides much better, non-assisted.
I like lightweight emtbs, I don't want full power on my rides. Just something that allows me to go further in a short amount of time. I am very time poor and want to maximize my rides.
Not sure it's gonna happen. They won't send me one. By all accounts, it's a fine bike with the best motor around today, the Bosch Gen 4 with Race option. But the dealer base of Orbea is not great and it's contracting in many areas. It seems they're very motivated to sell direct. And from Spain mostly.
I would like to see a 150/160 set up with a 60nm motor and mullet on the next version. I think the exe was supposed to be an extension to the regular fuel but the category of lite has been born and the exe is ready to depart from the fuel. I demoed the bike and liked it a lot. Bought the heckler sl though. Much more playful on the trail. Still like the exe.
Agree with Frances.... that comment is a bit cliche. Of course the rider is a notable variable, but every single time you go out to ride your bike, you are living with the choice you made of which bike to buy. You only make that choice once, and as such, you better get it right in terms of getting the bike that best suits your priorities in riding, fulfills your riding potential, enhances your enjoyment, etc., etc. - ride after ride after ride.......
Perhaps. But they seem to rail, jump, corner better for all the emtbs I've tried. Big dropper post clearance too. The downside is more rolling resistance and less rock eating ability on the rear. Not too significant on ebikes.
Stay away from fazua especially the heckler sl. 5 motors in 5 months. The linkage makes for a horrible ride. Had the rise before that and rode way smoother out here is whistler and Squamish . Got KOM’s on many double black trails in Squamish where it gets really rowdy and there is no way I could touch my times on the heckler . The heckler Rides like shit on the rowdy . Way to stiff and deflects off of every rock and throws you off line. Don’t buy into the Santa Cruz Kool aid. No refunds on a bike even after 5 motors. I had 4000km on the rise in one year and pounded the shit out of it and sold it to a happy customer who is still riding it .
Get Trek rail and call it a day. Full powered emtb with a nice flow. I will buy that shit soon. I changed my mind on midpowered emtbs. I think its better to go for full powered because you get all the benefits. If they manage to get a lightweight emtb with same power as bosch cx motor. That would be perfection
Really, Mid-powered emtbs are more ideal as a SECOND bike! First one will be a full-power or an analog. Range is what's gonna stop most folks from Mid-powered. But there is a market now... just not as big.
@@EMTBReview I have a full power bike and I can honestly say I haven't ridden it once in 6 months since I got my transition relay. I get almost as much range out of the 430wh battery as I did out of the 630wh battery just a bit less help in some steeper sections. It is a bit harder work on those steeper climbs but I find I am used to it now and can keep up with full fat buddies unless they whack in turbo and burn their batteries.
I rented a Rail and I thought it was a pig. Too heavy, low bb, the switch and display are a joke compared to the Fuel EXe. The power is great but you can't use full power going up technical climbs, it's not nearly as smooth and refined as the Fuel.
I bought the cheapest Trek EXe size L and love it. I’m 6’2, 220 lbs. and still have 10%+ battery after 2 1/2 hours, 22mi including 2800 feet of vertical climb. Plenty enough juice for me, and super stealthy. I often ride solo and not a single passing analog rider has commented on my e MTB.
@@darrendurr3286 Nonsense. I have gen 4 in carbon frame. Shreds trough everything. My friend also has fuel exe 9.9 T type which he got recently. You can put the motor in emtb mode and cruise trough all technical trails and also it pulls trough most of the technical trails in turbo mode that fuel exe cant even dream of trough. There is absolutely no comparison. If one had chance to buy only one of the bikes. Its rail all day. The stuff you can pull with rail, the things it can climb and shred trough, fuel exe cant do. It has 85 Nm torque compared to 50 on fuel. Even if you have not ridden both bikes whcih you probably didnt otherwise you wouldnt write that dumb comment. Just doing math alone answers the question. The things rail can do is out of fuels league by a large marigin. Also its a complete myth that heavier bike rides worse than lighter one. If anything the heavier one plants itself more and rides better. Fuel is better mostly if you do alot of bike park jumps obviously due top weight. Other than that no comparision. Rail just destroys. Specially Gen 4 bikes are out of this world with very small motor, insane design. I gave gen 5 Trek Slash in carbon frame and its very playful bike and its lighter than fuel and rail does anything that slash can do except jumping better. I dont see why fuel is any better here. Not to mention Fuel Exe is simply limited in suspension when it comes to hard stuff. Rail 160-150 is great and can even be changed to 170-160 mm making it pretty much super enduro ebike. You cant put those big forks etc on fuel. Rail is simply rougher and tougher bike or more enduroish than fuel.
Anybody can do a “shoot out”, another name for a comparison test. I appreciate hearing different perspectives along with observed pros and cons. We all make our own decisions on what we want for our type of terrain, riding and age. 🙏
Part 1 is here: ua-cam.com/video/2S-kQ_7AWVY/v-deo.html
Best light ebike round-up in handling, descending, features and integration with Specialized Levo SL vs. Santa Cruz Heckler sl vs. Trek Fuel EXe vs. Orbea Rise vs. Transition Relay vs. Pivot Shuttle SL
Buy through these links to help Emtb Review:
Santa Cruz Heckler sl - alnk.to/7qjfK3S
Trek Fuel EXe Direct - bit.ly/3VWF7rc
Orbea Rise H30 for $3999 from Jenson - alnk.to/dAlM4CU
Pivot Shuttle SL from Competitive - alnk.to/bEhrhGd
Specialized Levo SL - click.linksynergy.com/link?id=vigtlsOioGE&offerid=1262556.491872065517930&bids=1262556.491872065517930&type=2&murl=https%3a%2f%2fwww.specialized.com%2fus%2fen%2fturbo-levo-sl-expert-carbon%2fp%2f216819%3fcolor%3d428355-216819%26searchText%3d96822-3001
Ebike options at JensonUSA - bit.ly/41qC1wE
Chain and drivetrain parts - bit.ly/3prhCu8
Chain lube options - bit.ly/3BazADF
Dropper posts - bit.ly/3MazOBc
Rider protection - bit.ly/3NSgSsb
This was a seriously detailed and well thought out review.
Thank you. I had all the content but it was really hard to organize my data and thoughts. Glad you found it helpful.
Such a good comprehensive review of the pros and cons of each bike. Great job!
Thank you sir!
sadly its also a bit incorrect. f.e. the relay does support the range extender (which is not yet available from fazua). Rattle are cables, not motor or mount. Zip ties .. fix it. Depends on who assembled the bike basically. Maybe its because this channel tested it a long time ago vs the rest. I get the Relay PNW before any other bike for the most capable bike, the shuttle SL for the niche downcountry indeed, and thuss its between the Levo and Heckler SL in my mind for the trail-ish bikes. Orbea used to be the only one, but I find these bikes are just better. The Trek's fine too but the motor and battery don't cut it.
These 2 videos just saved me hours of research! Thank you for throwing them on a scale a couple of these didn't list it on their site. Also love the theoretical breakdown of ascent capabilities. Keep it up!
Very welcome!
Love my Orbea Hydro. No issues so far👍
Thank you for the in depth comparisons. I want to purchase a eMBT and I still can't decide! :D
Another e-mtb comparison from E-MTB Review with lots of great data. Thanks for doing these!
You are most welcome. Thank you for all your help in the forum.
Excellent 2 part shootout fc! Love your passion and “no bones left unpicked” coverage of the details. Very keen of you to call out how important dealer support is on these bikes too! Ride quality for the win...
I’m getting some clarity on the TR Relay RE port. The port is there, but I think there is a Fazua wire harnessy part that will need to be installed before the RE can be mounted and used, when it finally makes it’s debut... post supplier channel woes...
Fun fact. TR’s nickname for the battery level lights?
Nuggs
In context: “How many nuggs you got left?” “Oh, I’ve still got three nuggs bro!”
Good stuff. Glad to see so many great options coming out. I purchased a Rise H a couple of years ago, and, so far, nothing is making me have buyers remorse. I purchased the least expensive option knowing I’d be changing out stuff and I think even after that, it would add up to less than some of the lowest options on the newer bikes. Yes, I hate the motor rattle and the dealer support issue is real, but man is this thing fun. I’ll probably de-restrict the motor at some point for the heck of it, which is an option the other bikes don’t have.
Glad to hear it. So many friends bought the Orbea Rise H30 and upgraded key parts. It's kept them very happy as they plot their next purchase
Awesome Review! I also appreciate your climb tests and trying to control as many variables as possible. This really is the best test I’ve seen to really compare the efficiency, speed, and extrapolation of range so far. Could it be more precise and scientific? Absolutely. But who has time for that? I’m just glad you are taking the time to do what you are doing.
The transparency is also great. I’ve been hearing about the Orbea problem with dealers from other channels and that completely turned me off to them. That’s a shame. I hope they can get that turned around.
I have a question for you Francis. ride a gen 1 KSL and love it but I find myself not riding it as much as I used to because it really requires gnarlier fast trails that aren’t as convenient to me. I’m also coming off a serious shoulder injury and now I’m looking to buy or build up another mid weight Emtb. I love what you have done with getting the Levo SL super light (32lbs!) I would love to get one of these down to 37ish pounds. You think I could do that on the Levo SL or Heckler SL (doubt it) with out removing the battery?
Right on. Full range battery testing is very difficult as well since it is hard for the rider to maintain consistent power output for the whole battery, and be consistent across many bikes. The bigger problem is all these bikes behave differently once they hit 20% battery level. They all kind of throttle down but at different points and assist levels.
Yeah, I had the Kenevo SL gen 1 too. I ended up not riding it much since I didn't have the terrain. Also, it was noisy and weak.
For a 37ish lb bike, the Levo SL gen 2 and Pivot Shuttle SL can definitely get there. It will take a lot of money though unless you go to weight weenie tires. The Heckler SL is about 3 lbs heavier.
Living in Norway, the possibility to take out the battery to store inside was a factor when buying my Relay. We have cold winters here and the shed is only insulated not heated, and batteries don't do well in the cold.
Can confirm uphill jank on snow and ice due to more speed and wheelspin, that was a new experience 😅
Definitely a key consideration. Batteries are unsafe to charge at very cold temperatures.
Sub zero temps will put the battery at 60% of its capacity. If it is charged to 100% at that temp, when the temperature goes to normal levels, the battery voltage will rise to very dangerous levels.
Here in the US. Tesla outdoor fast chargers just refused to charge ANY car at subzero temps. Owners were shocked why.
Similarly for us in California, my garage in summer day when we hit 37-45C outside , inside garage is roster oven, not good for battery health. Manufacturers don't care at all about this common engineering sense.
Love this breakdown
Super nice job man! I think about getting a levo sl, or a kenevo sl, but I have to remind myself I'm 235 pounds and 6'2". My first levo sl was a good bike, but the power and range was terrible for me.
Hi, what model of levo or levo sl do you recommended for 235 pounds, I’m around you too. Thank
@@bomb7517 levo with extra battery.
Are you sure about the extender support for the Transition? On my Heckler SL there is a rubber plug on the downtube just under the water bottle cage. I think that plug will be where the port will be located. I dont think the extender will be plugged into the charge port since there is no clearance for the crank arm.
Let me check on that @pippinrush1520. This whole Fazua extender is a mystery to me so I'll contact the manufacturers.
@@EMTBReview it really is a cluster. i'm just guessing here, as i really have no idea lol
I'm really interested to see a review of a lightweight bike with the new Bosch Performance Line SX. The 2024 Norco Fluid VLT in 140/150 travel could be contender in this space.
Absolutely. It's looking like the Performance Line SX is destined to take the middleweight crown this year.
It would be a coup if they sell that platform with sufficient inventory this year. And even more important, if the extender is available at launch.
Congrat to you/your videos. Your comments are very qualified and I feel supported and with an open neutral and critical POV. good to see you again comming from the emtb previous channel. I have an important question, perhaps you can help me. I own a SL 1st generation. It's possible to upgrade the motor for the new one? are other components needed? Would Specialized support their customers that have spend a lot of money in a still valid ebike that only after 2 years has been so stream devaluted??? thanks in advance!!!
Bummer that the Cannondale Moterra SL wasn't available for this.
Francis I LOVE your videos and reviews! I sold my Kenevo SL and now trying to decide between Heckler SL and Levo SL - help me decide please! :)
I don’t get it. Looking at the times, Orbea Rise clearly rises above most others, by a whole lot! So what’s with the spit balling on how great the other bikes are?
I've been riding that Orbea Rise for a year and it's just ok when it comes to ride quality and fun factor. It does offer a great price point and range especially for someone who just have one bike and wants to ride with full-powered riders.
Dealer situation is getting worse and three friends now have cracked alloy chainstays.
Have you swung a leg over the Mondraker Neat yet?
Seems to me it could be the Goldilocks zone for me:
Plenty of travel, removable battery, range extender option, great integration, quiet motor, looks stunning… it’s like the Swiss Army knife of lightweight EMTBs!
No. Mondraker was always ahead of the game on emtbs. But their presence in the US seems to be so small that I may not get the chance. I'm finding local dealer support is a very key consideration with ebikes. Cause they need much support. :)
@@EMTBReview that makes sense. Thats the main reason I wouldn’t buy a direct to consumer EMTB!
I'm swooning for a Neat. Hard to justify the cash though when Fuel Exes are now 25% off!
@@Rubblechops yep, there are some crazy deals around!! Good problem to have I guess haha
Doesn’t the relay have a plug cover on the down tube for a possible range extender?
I am not sure, but I will look into it
sl levo at $14k? i have 3 specialized bikes but that's out of my price point . i need a sl with small frame and i have always liked the specialized frame but i need a lighter bike with 120mm or 140 mullet - at 40pounds or less. what is there?
The new DJI motor may get us there. But that may be a couple years till we see great bike options with that motor
You should do a review on canyon torque on
Definitely will try to get my hands on one.
The Giant Trance X Advance EL+ is seriously the way to go also rider support for Giant is great since you have to go through your LBS I watch all your vids and even though you didn’t try the Giant everything on paper beats these bikes 400wh battery 200wh extender all together 600wh and a full power motor sz large out the box for the base build is 43.4lbs without extender or pedals Giant for the win
We asked Giant several times for a test bike but they didn't send one. We'd love to test it for sure. Friends are claiming it is heavier with less range than spec sheet claims.
would have been nice to hear your comments on a Rise with the longer travel
With longer travel, 140mm plush rear shock and 160mm fork, it handles steep stuff much better. Top tube is shortish with that seat angle and it gets shorter when slackened. It would do better at 64 degree head angle. Friends have mulleted it but it's not ideal since the chainstays are longish anyway at 445mm.
It rides better for sure and it would be a lot more compelling if Orbea updated this bike and geometry.
What Marzochi rear shock do you have on your bike? Is it possible to get 150 mm on that rear shock?@@EMTBReview
@@rogeronehope4u581 one option that makes the bike better in so many ways for anything but the 2023 carbon models is the Cascade Components link. Improves the stiffness of bike, makes it a bit more progressive and increases travel to 150mm with the stock shock size. Best $290 I've spent in a while on a bike!
Love your reviews was hoping the Giant advanced E+ Elite may have been included as classed as lightweight EMTB , but assume as its 85nm opposed to 50 to 60nm was one of the reasons it wasnt. im considering this or specialized levo or levo SL for my first EMTB
This was not the reason. He explained Giant didn’t send him one probably because he does such a good test on the climbing speed and efficiency of these bikes. I too was interested in this bike. BikersEdge does a good shoot out of 4 mid Mtb’s and including the giant. The talk about range and give some good numbers you can extrapolate. Best info I’ve seen on the range of this bike. Spoiler, it’s not great due to having a full 85 nm motor. It’s not efficient but it has other amazing strengths some are obvious.
@@EndoMTB cool thanks for the reply I missed that
That’s why I bought the giant it’s seriously a great bike and you have the option of full power or SL power 400wh battery and with a 200wh extender to make it 600wh is a no brainer it’s seriously a great bike
I’ve tested Transition Relay and that FAZUA motor whine was annoying as hell. Maybe this was just my case but I’ve also heard the same sound signature in Loam Wolf review. This and Ali’s express controller is no go for me.
Good point. Quality issues were a downside on early Fazua motors
The fact about the lightweight e-bike and normal full power e-bike is that the “lightweight” is not lightweight at all. You need the 160wh extender battery to reach the range of a full power ebike and the extender is 1.1 kilograms. And with that included, the bike becomes 19-20kilograms and full power Sworks carbon Specialized Levo weighs about 22 kg. Only a 2-3 kg difference gives you full performance hill climb. 👍🏻
Good comment. They can be 10 lbs lighter but they're losing most of the weight with the battery. The biggest compromise of mid-powered bikes then is range and that is just the nature of the beast. Their solution for range is extender batteries and that is a good thing. Make batteries modular since riders don't need 750wh of range in the majority of mtb rides.
I made a video about it here: ua-cam.com/video/rn-tR_L5cis/v-deo.html
@@EMTBReview Yes extender batteries are good 👍🏻 I don’t have negative opinion about them. You can take the extender battery to plane trip. That is good. You can check and review the new Scott Lumen Ebike which weighs 15,5 kg. That can be the “lightweight” we desire for Xc rides I think.
It depends on how/what you ride. The vast majority of the rides I do are 1-2.5 hour trail rips and I’d much rather do that on a lighter bike (no extender required). The difference in feel between 18kg and 23kg is really noticeable to me.
There is no universally correct option but lightweight EMTBs absolutely have their place… otherwise manufacturers wouldn’t sell any of them.
@@federaldelii the Scott Lumen and the Trek E-Caliber have very limited appeal I think. They're 30 lbs but they have very little power and range that they don't serve a purpose anymore as they don't do anything well. Power is weak and the battery only lasts about 3000 feet at most. And then they have motor drag and weight so it's no fun to ride them with motor off.
The rider is much better served riding a 22 lb XC mountain bike. Can tackle 4000-8000 ft climbing rides much better, non-assisted.
I like lightweight emtbs, I don't want full power on my rides. Just something that allows me to go further in a short amount of time. I am very time poor and want to maximize my rides.
whens orbea wild duude ???
Not sure it's gonna happen. They won't send me one. By all accounts, it's a fine bike with the best motor around today, the Bosch Gen 4 with Race option.
But the dealer base of Orbea is not great and it's contracting in many areas. It seems they're very motivated to sell direct. And from Spain mostly.
What??? Wait! Is the Rise an XC bike?? Noway! It is a trail bike. 140mm 150mm. It ride as a trailbike, the geo is as a trail bike. It is trailbike. 😂🎉
It’s a trail bike leaning towards XC or down country with it sl 65.5 degree head angle
@@EMTBReview - smile, I also sensed the possibility of non acknowledged bias against the Rise, no way is it a XC configuration !
With the cascade link 150mm rear, and bump fork to 160 ,heD 65 head angle, now it becomes aggressive trail bike, rides amazing!!
Conclusion: EXe mullet, range extender and coil fork :)
Basically.... yessir!
I would like to see a 150/160 set up with a 60nm motor and mullet on the next version. I think the exe was supposed to be an extension to the regular fuel but the category of lite has been born and the exe is ready to depart from the fuel. I demoed the bike and liked it a lot. Bought the heckler sl though. Much more playful on the trail. Still like the exe.
@@jamiesteiger6140 I bet we see a 60nm and bigger battery soon.
Every single modern emtb is good, they're all roughly the same, the major difference is the human rider, that is the major viable 🤪
That makes zero sense. It’s like saying no component or product matters because it’s all about the user
Experience, strength & fitness, makes for too many viables in humans on a bike 😁
Agree with Frances.... that comment is a bit cliche. Of course the rider is a notable variable, but every single time you go out to ride your bike, you are living with the choice you made of which bike to buy. You only make that choice once, and as such, you better get it right in terms of getting the bike that best suits your priorities in riding, fulfills your riding potential, enhances your enjoyment, etc., etc. - ride after ride after ride.......
@EMTBReview If you had 6k to spend. What would you pick Orbea wild alum or specialized turbo levo alum???
I think you are forcing mullet set-up way to hard. Nothing wrong with 29-er and your opnion that its only for tall people is plain wrong.
Perhaps. But they seem to rail, jump, corner better for all the emtbs I've tried. Big dropper post clearance too.
The downside is more rolling resistance and less rock eating ability on the rear. Not too significant on ebikes.
@@EMTBReviewYeah but you sacrifice traction by going with 27.5. To each their own I guess…
@@EMTBReview Mullets are the way. Full 29er for XC racing.
Stay away from fazua especially the heckler sl. 5 motors in 5 months. The linkage makes for a horrible ride. Had the rise before that and rode way smoother out here is whistler and Squamish . Got KOM’s on many double black trails in Squamish where it gets really rowdy and there is no way I could touch my times on the heckler . The heckler Rides like shit on the rowdy . Way to stiff and deflects off of every rock and throws you off line. Don’t buy into the Santa Cruz Kool aid. No refunds on a bike even after 5 motors. I had 4000km on the rise in one year and pounded the shit out of it and sold it to a happy customer who is still riding it .
Very good info!!!! Can you give us more details on exactly how the motors were failing?
How was the warranty turnaround?
The Heckler rides like shit on the rowdy? Just say NO to drugs....
Get Trek rail and call it a day. Full powered emtb with a nice flow. I will buy that shit soon. I changed my mind on midpowered emtbs. I think its better to go for full powered because you get all the benefits. If they manage to get a lightweight emtb with same power as bosch cx motor. That would be perfection
Really, Mid-powered emtbs are more ideal as a SECOND bike! First one will be a full-power or an analog.
Range is what's gonna stop most folks from Mid-powered.
But there is a market now... just not as big.
@@EMTBReview I have a full power bike and I can honestly say I haven't ridden it once in 6 months since I got my transition relay. I get almost as much range out of the 430wh battery as I did out of the 630wh battery just a bit less help in some steeper sections. It is a bit harder work on those steeper climbs but I find I am used to it now and can keep up with full fat buddies unless they whack in turbo and burn their batteries.
I rented a Rail and I thought it was a pig. Too heavy, low bb, the switch and display are a joke compared to the Fuel EXe. The power is great but you can't use full power going up technical climbs, it's not nearly as smooth and refined as the Fuel.
I bought the cheapest Trek EXe size L and love it. I’m 6’2, 220 lbs. and still have 10%+ battery after 2 1/2 hours, 22mi including 2800 feet of vertical climb. Plenty enough juice for me, and super stealthy. I often ride solo and not a single passing analog rider has commented on my e MTB.
@@darrendurr3286 Nonsense. I have gen 4 in carbon frame. Shreds trough everything. My friend also has fuel exe 9.9 T type which he got recently. You can put the motor in emtb mode and cruise trough all technical trails and also it pulls trough most of the technical trails in turbo mode that fuel exe cant even dream of trough. There is absolutely no comparison. If one had chance to buy only one of the bikes. Its rail all day. The stuff you can pull with rail, the things it can climb and shred trough, fuel exe cant do. It has 85 Nm torque compared to 50 on fuel. Even if you have not ridden both bikes whcih you probably didnt otherwise you wouldnt write that dumb comment. Just doing math alone answers the question. The things rail can do is out of fuels league by a large marigin. Also its a complete myth that heavier bike rides worse than lighter one. If anything the heavier one plants itself more and rides better. Fuel is better mostly if you do alot of bike park jumps obviously due top weight. Other than that no comparision. Rail just destroys. Specially Gen 4 bikes are out of this world with very small motor, insane design. I gave gen 5 Trek Slash in carbon frame and its very playful bike and its lighter than fuel and rail does anything that slash can do except jumping better. I dont see why fuel is any better here.
Not to mention Fuel Exe is simply limited in suspension when it comes to hard stuff. Rail 160-150 is great and can even be changed to 170-160 mm making it pretty much super enduro ebike. You cant put those big forks etc on fuel. Rail is simply rougher and tougher bike or more enduroish than fuel.
stop compromising . go full power or no power , this in between stuff is silly and your paying more for less .
You can’t call your video a shootout because another UA-cam channel uses that
What was that?
@@EMTBReview do your research
Anybody can do a “shoot out”, another name for a comparison test. I appreciate hearing different perspectives along with observed pros and cons. We all make our own decisions on what we want for our type of terrain, riding and age. 🙏
Mid power? Mid power is Bosch SX and around 500w/h batteries.
That would be cool!
Random definition though and doesn’t exist yet.