I didn't know that; thanks for the info! I did a little search, and found that a chain for going around a radius like you mentioned, is called: "Side Bow Roller Chain". Mostly used for a conveyor. I appreciate your info comment!
@@doubleMinnovations🔴 What Is Islam? 🔴 Islam is not just another religion. 🔵 It is the same message preached by Moses, Jesus and Abraham. 🔴 Islam literally means ‘submission to God’ and it teaches us to have a direct relationship with God. 🔵 It reminds us that since God created us, no one should be worshipped except God alone. 🔴 It also teaches that God is nothing like a human being or like anything that we can imagine. 🌍 The concept of God is summarized in the Quran as: 📖 { “Say, He is God, the One. God, the Absolute. He does not give birth, nor was He born, and there is nothing like Him.”} (Quran 112:1-4) 📚 🔴 Becoming a Muslim is not turning your back to Jesus. 🔵 Rather it’s going back to the original teachings of Jesus and obeying him. More .....👇 🔴 THE RETURN OF JESUS
I turn my 40,00p lb green house with a gear assembly salvaged from a boat hoist powered by a 24v, 5 rpm 5 amp motor . I like building stuff from salvaged materials like you, keep up the good work!
Interesting approach. I think you're correct to switch from a wooden gear mechanism to a metal one. My primary concern with the wooden gearing is that it's okay as a prototyping tool, but for a permanent installation, I'd be worried about friction buildup, especially during the summer month's which might lead to a fire. Not great for a primarily wooden installation. I continue to watch your developments with great interest.
If this does not work out for you, have you ever considered a very small car rear end? Diff and at least one axle. I would not think it would create too much drag on system. They turn very easily.
I should have read the comments ... You have the right idea. I think that turbine has plenty of power to bend that all thread in a second. Please think about this comment and mine for years of trouble free energy.
Yes I have, but don't have one. This is an experimental prototype, to see if it warrants making a bigger one. There are lots of possibilities for drive trains to consider.
Very interesting! It certainly worked a lot better than I expected it to, but why not flip the orientation 90 degrees and have the sprocket horizontal? It will have far less wear and friction. You could get that circle of wood more round by using a sturdy rest and a jigged router or even a jig with a circular saw. Obviously this would mean the power is still vertical, but you could attach it to a worm gear if needed (also removing the worm gear would mean you have an easy option to switch the orientation of the power output if needed).
That was kind of what I was wondering. It seems like just putting the compressor on its side and using a direct chain seems easier. I know pistons like that will over a very very long time may wear unevenly on their side, but its seal should take most of that.
A vertical shaft will work good on some things. Air compressor has horizontal shaft, (oil filled), if I turned it on it's side oil would start bypassing the piston. An oil-less one would probably work. The hub the chain is attached to, was made on a jig to cut circles on a table saw, so there isn't a problem there. Thanks for all the suggestions!
Really cool, makes my mind spin. Like to make some comments but i don't want them to come off like i know anything. More of what if comments. Like putting wheels on alternators and attached around the big part of the shaft. Sails like on sailboats but used to funnel air into the turbine on a low wind days. To this day i still have not did something i always I wanted to do. This is a very interesting channel I hope I don't get booted off cuz of My strange communication skills. Thanks for reaching.
If you watch my other videos in the this playlist, when I first starting this venture, one plan was to have wind diverters on the outside to gather in more. Thanks for commenting!
What if you laid the chain down in the other orientation then have the sprocket riding on the inside with the shaft going straight up or down then you could figure out your gearing at the 90-degree angle? Then the chain would be easy to bend into any diameter circle you want or need.
Great stuff! You might take a look at Matthias Wandel's involute gear generator. Even cut out of plywood, when done with care the involute shape can significantly reduce losses to friction.
I have build wind turbines for over 50 years. You'd do well to make a design change favoring less rotational mass. I once built a large vawt much like that shown in the beginning part of your video, but instead of moving all that mass, I chose to use blades positioned around a circle 16 feet in diameter, catching wind from any direction, creating a vortex. I then immersed a hollow flat rectangular blade and let the vortex power it making it safe in any wind and in an emergency, a tarp tossed up on the windward side would stop the whole thing. Think of two fly swatters joined together right next to each other held closely together at their handles, close up to the screens, all mounted horizontally about a center vertical shaft.
Thanks for trying the peg gears I asked about! Seemed like a shoe-in, since they're at the beginning of your intro and were common in pre-industrial wind and water mills. I'm still somewhat in favor of them; if made in wood, the surfaces will naturally wear into the optimal shape, and become hard and smooth as they rub together. It has something to do with the lignin in the wood being forced to the surface like squeezing a sponge, but over longer times and higher pressures. Cool chain idea, though! Don't think I've ever seen that, pretty clever. Looking forward to seeing what you do next.
A couple afterthoughts: It's important that the mating surfaces of the pegs be cut with the grain. You don't want to bear load on tapered cuts across grain boundaries. Also, for outdoor use you'd usually treat the final part assemblies with wax, oil, stain, resin, polyurethane, varnish, lacquer, shellac, or who knows what else. Any of that will also affect the surface friction and wear patterns over season changes of loaded use in various ways both positive and negative.
It seems obvious. But then, I'm not sure if there's a good reason it has to have horizontal shaft. Anyway, the sprocket sounds like it's grinding on the chain really hard, I recommend making the sprocket either concave or convex
I can picture this design working really well on top of a water tower. It could fill the tower whenever there is enough wind and then the full tank could provide ballast.
Yup, that's a version of classic pumped hydro-electric storage. There's a huge one not too far from me in Bath County Virginia, in the United States. It's got over 3,000 megawatts of capacity.
Nice idea . If you have a V pulley instead of sprocket that would work to drive air compressor. You will need a pressure blow off valve for safety with that. I belt drive with a idler pulley to keep tension would be great .
Looks really good. No idea why you need compressed air but hey if thats what you need? Have at it! Suggestion? Shorten up the distance between all the drive components and the carrier bearings as tight as possible. A short shaft is much less likely to bend.
Clever use of roller chain! I think you could drive a generator with a wheel like your tachometer wheel. It's at the edge of the big rotor where speeds are high, and a small wheel provides a pretty big gear ratio already. Like the little dynamos you could spin on the wheel of a bike...
Use a belt drive, twist the belt to give the horizontal drive. While the turbine is spinning, you can lathe the v shape into your timber turntable. On the belt it's also a good idea to run a spring loaded tensioner pully. Good luck.😅
Why not a differential from the rear of a car/truck to convert the rotation from vertical to horizontal? Those should be fairly efficient. That said... Your plan B with a long length of worn out chain or a flat belt might be easier to put together. If you're OK with high-speed and low-torque, you could wrap a cable around the entire upper side of the windmill and have it direct drive an alternator.
With long v belt you and put the pulleys on each end 90 degree to each other. You can find tables that will help you determine the distance needed between each pullley to do the 90 degree twist.
Man I love the videos but at this point you could have installed a pair of thrust washers a Torrington bearing, and a 90 degree chinesium gear box and your done. ETA I do enjoy the effort and ingenuity!
I consider if perhaps using "hoverboard" wheels would work. They are essentially 250-350w 3 phase brushless motors. When driven by some exterior force it is possible to connect a 3 phase rectifier to the output and get DC. Plenty of videos show how to do that. And then smooth/straighten the bottom of your construction and put as many as it will pull. UA-cam says you can find broken hoverboards for cheap. But this may not be applicable at all for you. Anyhow, I'll get back to what I came for. Watching your video 😅
I feel like if you ran the chain on the outside of the wood circle but flipped it upright you would have to change the way your gear set but it would allow you to easily use any gear size that you wanted against that chain. Not sure if I described that well but basically instead of running your chain horizontal and bending it sideways keep it on the outside of that wouldn’t ring but flip it without cutting the gears vertical
What if a guy was to use a non posi Dana 60 axle as the turn table holder and PTO for the windmill? Bury the non drive side in concrete and the other end that drives the differential on the turntable. The yoke off of the differential could then be geared to what ever the average RPM needs would be for a pump or a DC generator?
I would have just stuck magnets on the outer ring made a second platform under it for lots of copper coils rigged a battery or super capacitor bank and run the compressor or anything else off of that. Love the flaper windmill! by the by.
Oh another thought, some of the parts I didn’t salvage for the Greenhouse & bandsaw mill I built came from a surplus company in the mid west, they have lots of hard to find parts for creators like us.
The upside down trolley wheel with suspension, BUT on a castor. This (lowest friction) wheel's sole job; to keep the distance between the magnets on the bottom of the pan, and a coil or 3 mounted unsuspended with the wheel/s... :) Or a magnetic gearbox or drive. Lotsa vids on that Magnetic levitation bearing. To take the load of the 'now guide' bearing. You need to put a measurable load on every type of drive. The finger torque test looks good :) but tells us little. That data adds interest...
You could router out wind turbine wheel and nicely rap the chain around the wood, then their would be no drupping chain, but then your small cog would be vertical
When you cut and bend the chain, you're changing the pitch of the chain, meaning that the sprocket is no longer a good fit. This will cause significant friction losses and excessive wear. You might find you do better with a different pitch sprocket, to match the final pitch of the modified chain.
What I really think? Your turbine is massive and will produce huge power. Quit playing with tiny toys and put an automotive differential down there. Firmly mounted to both the structure and mother earth...like in concrete. From there you can use belts, a transmission or whatever to get the speed you need and the diff gives you two outputs which you have plenty of power for.
Your design uses the chain and sprocket in a way it wasn’t designed. It minimizes contact between the chain and gear, which maximizes wear. Either get or make an 18” chain ring, then set the sprocket to rotate on the vertical axis parallel to the chain ring and run a chain around the two in a manner that a chain drive is designed to function. This will maximize chain/gear contact and minimize wear. Your determination to go your own way ignores the mechanical engineering that you are “almost” using for a more primitive method using the more modern materials. Use the chain and sprocket in the way it was designed, and you will achieve a greater reward for your efforts. By the way I do love the design and size of your vertical axis windmill!
They actually make a lose pinned and roller chain for going around radius. I've seen it used in lumber mills.
I didn't know that; thanks for the info! I did a little search, and found that a chain for going around a radius like you mentioned, is called: "Side Bow Roller Chain". Mostly used for a conveyor. I appreciate your info comment!
@@doubleMinnovations🔴 What Is Islam?
🔴 Islam is not just another religion.
🔵 It is the same message preached by Moses, Jesus and Abraham.
🔴 Islam literally means ‘submission to God’ and it teaches us to have a direct relationship with God.
🔵 It reminds us that since God created us, no one should be worshipped except God alone.
🔴 It also teaches that God is nothing like a human being or like anything that we can imagine.
🌍 The concept of God is summarized in the Quran as:
📖 { “Say, He is God, the One. God, the Absolute. He does not give birth, nor was He born, and there is nothing like Him.”} (Quran 112:1-4) 📚
🔴 Becoming a Muslim is not turning your back to Jesus.
🔵 Rather it’s going back to the original teachings of Jesus and obeying him.
More .....👇
🔴 THE RETURN OF JESUS
I turn my 40,00p lb green house with a gear assembly salvaged from a boat hoist powered by a 24v, 5 rpm 5 amp motor .
I like building stuff from salvaged materials like you, keep up the good work!
Interesting approach. I think you're correct to switch from a wooden gear mechanism to a metal one. My primary concern with the wooden gearing is that it's okay as a prototyping tool, but for a permanent installation, I'd be worried about friction buildup, especially during the summer month's which might lead to a fire. Not great for a primarily wooden installation.
I continue to watch your developments with great interest.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
If this does not work out for you, have you ever considered a very small car rear end? Diff and at least one axle. I would not think it would create too much drag on system. They turn very easily.
I should have read the comments ... You have the right idea. I think that turbine has plenty of power to bend that all thread in a second.
Please think about this comment and mine for years of trouble free energy.
Yes I have, but don't have one. This is an experimental prototype, to see if it warrants making a bigger one.
There are lots of possibilities for drive trains to consider.
Very interesting! It certainly worked a lot better than I expected it to, but why not flip the orientation 90 degrees and have the sprocket horizontal? It will have far less wear and friction. You could get that circle of wood more round by using a sturdy rest and a jigged router or even a jig with a circular saw. Obviously this would mean the power is still vertical, but you could attach it to a worm gear if needed (also removing the worm gear would mean you have an easy option to switch the orientation of the power output if needed).
That was kind of what I was wondering. It seems like just putting the compressor on its side and using a direct chain seems easier. I know pistons like that will over a very very long time may wear unevenly on their side, but its seal should take most of that.
A vertical shaft will work good on some things. Air compressor has horizontal shaft, (oil filled), if I turned it on it's side oil would start bypassing the piston. An oil-less one would probably work. The hub the chain is attached to, was made on a jig to cut circles on a table saw, so there isn't a problem there.
Thanks for all the suggestions!
Really cool, makes my mind spin. Like to make some comments but i don't want them to come off like i know anything. More of what if comments.
Like putting wheels on alternators and attached around the big part of the shaft. Sails like on sailboats but used to funnel air into the turbine on a low wind days.
To this day i still have not did something i always I wanted to do.
This is a very interesting channel I hope I don't get booted off cuz of My strange communication skills.
Thanks for reaching.
If you watch my other videos in the this playlist, when I first starting this venture, one plan was to have wind diverters on the outside to gather in more. Thanks for commenting!
Cool deal glad I found your channel
Thanks for coming
What if you laid the chain down in the other orientation then have the sprocket riding on the inside with the shaft going straight up or down then you could figure out your gearing at the 90-degree angle? Then the chain would be easy to bend into any diameter circle you want or need.
Great stuff! You might take a look at Matthias Wandel's involute gear generator. Even cut out of plywood, when done with care the involute shape can significantly reduce losses to friction.
I have build wind turbines for over 50 years. You'd do well to make a design change favoring less rotational mass.
I once built a large vawt much like that shown in the beginning part of your video, but instead of moving all that mass, I chose to use blades positioned around a circle 16 feet in diameter, catching wind from any direction, creating a vortex.
I then immersed a hollow flat rectangular blade and let the vortex power it making it safe in any wind and in an emergency, a tarp tossed up on the windward side would stop the whole thing.
Think of two fly swatters joined together right next to each other held closely together at their handles, close up to the screens, all mounted horizontally about a center vertical shaft.
Be sure to show us some video on a stormy windy day of that thing humming.
Thanks for trying the peg gears I asked about! Seemed like a shoe-in, since they're at the beginning of your intro and were common in pre-industrial wind and water mills. I'm still somewhat in favor of them; if made in wood, the surfaces will naturally wear into the optimal shape, and become hard and smooth as they rub together. It has something to do with the lignin in the wood being forced to the surface like squeezing a sponge, but over longer times and higher pressures. Cool chain idea, though! Don't think I've ever seen that, pretty clever. Looking forward to seeing what you do next.
A couple afterthoughts: It's important that the mating surfaces of the pegs be cut with the grain. You don't want to bear load on tapered cuts across grain boundaries. Also, for outdoor use you'd usually treat the final part assemblies with wax, oil, stain, resin, polyurethane, varnish, lacquer, shellac, or who knows what else. Any of that will also affect the surface friction and wear patterns over season changes of loaded use in various ways both positive and negative.
Outstanding sir my cnc laser/router depends on roller chain it just works
I get superior resolution. .002 to be exact amazing for 035 rollerchain in my case I pre stretched it all mine are strait runs
Just a thought on the chain , could you wrap it around the outside of the circle with the sprocket shaft running vertical?
It seems obvious. But then, I'm not sure if there's a good reason it has to have horizontal shaft. Anyway, the sprocket sounds like it's grinding on the chain really hard, I recommend making the sprocket either concave or convex
Replace those wheelbarrow wheels with 3 ebike or electric scooter wheels spaced around the circumference. You've got some great ideas!
Thanks for you ideas!
I can picture this design working really well on top of a water tower. It could fill the tower whenever there is enough wind and then the full tank could provide ballast.
Yup, that's a version of classic pumped hydro-electric storage. There's a huge one not too far from me in Bath County Virginia, in the United States. It's got over 3,000 megawatts of capacity.
Nice idea . If you have a V pulley instead of sprocket that would work to drive air compressor. You will need a pressure blow off valve for safety with that. I belt drive with a idler pulley to keep tension would be great .
A compressor with unloader valves would be better..
Looks really good. No idea why you need compressed air but hey if thats what you need? Have at it! Suggestion? Shorten up the distance between all the drive components and the carrier bearings as tight as possible. A short shaft is much less likely to bend.
Pretty cool possibilities if you can get it figured out. What about belt drive with tension from the vertical shaft to a small differential?
I think with a larger flywheel and gear box before your main sprocket and you'll have one heck of a good windmill. Very nice!!
Clever use of roller chain! I think you could drive a generator with a wheel like your tachometer wheel. It's at the edge of the big rotor where speeds are high, and a small wheel provides a pretty big gear ratio already. Like the little dynamos you could spin on the wheel of a bike...
Yes, that is an option!
Use a belt drive, twist the belt to give the horizontal drive. While the turbine is spinning, you can lathe the v shape into your timber turntable. On the belt it's also a good idea to run a spring loaded tensioner pully. Good luck.😅
Why not a differential from the rear of a car/truck to convert the rotation from vertical to horizontal? Those should be fairly efficient. That said... Your plan B with a long length of worn out chain or a flat belt might be easier to put together. If you're OK with high-speed and low-torque, you could wrap a cable around the entire upper side of the windmill and have it direct drive an alternator.
Just e but why not a canvas top ???
Would keep everything dry ???
With long v belt you and put the pulleys on each end 90 degree to each other. You can find tables that will help you determine the distance needed between each pullley to do the 90 degree twist.
That is one torquey Savonius.😮
Man I love the videos but at this point you could have installed a pair of thrust washers a Torrington bearing, and a 90 degree chinesium gear box and your done. ETA I do enjoy the effort and ingenuity!
Good video router Groove in it and lay the chain in the groove
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing!
I like the wheel running on the underside, though I would prefer if you use frictionless magnetically entrained wheel.
Looks great!
Is there some reason your not considering a belt ?
I consider if perhaps using "hoverboard" wheels would work. They are essentially 250-350w 3 phase brushless motors. When driven by some exterior force it is possible to connect a 3 phase rectifier to the output and get DC. Plenty of videos show how to do that.
And then smooth/straighten the bottom of your construction and put as many as it will pull.
UA-cam says you can find broken hoverboards for cheap. But this may not be applicable at all for you. Anyhow, I'll get back to what I came for. Watching your video 😅
I feel like if you ran the chain on the outside of the wood circle but flipped it upright you would have to change the way your gear set but it would allow you to easily use any gear size that you wanted against that chain. Not sure if I described that well but basically instead of running your chain horizontal and bending it sideways keep it on the outside of that wouldn’t ring but flip it without cutting the gears vertical
thanks for the video , great project!
Maybe you could glue magnets to the bottom outer ring and have windings just beneath? I'll bet you could produce pleny of juice! Thanks for the video
Just a suggestion for the wheel barrow tire,,, if you lean it like a motorcycle tire would lean into a corner it would work better than 90 degrees!
What if a guy was to use a non posi Dana 60 axle as the turn table holder and PTO for the windmill? Bury the non drive side in concrete and the other end that drives the differential on the turntable. The yoke off of the differential could then be geared to what ever the average RPM needs would be for a pump or a DC generator?
Why not attach the chain directly to the bottom of the wind turbine?
Yes, but not the bottom outer edge, but rather the bottom of the side and orientate the chain normally
@@jeeppayton I think it's worth the time to try both outside and inside or maybe even having multiple parallel runs which should increase torque.
I would have just stuck magnets on the outer ring made a second platform under it for lots of copper coils rigged a battery or super capacitor bank and run the compressor or anything else off of that. Love the flaper windmill! by the by.
Oh another thought, some of the parts I didn’t salvage for the Greenhouse & bandsaw mill I built came from a surplus company in the mid west, they have lots of hard to find parts for creators like us.
The upside down trolley wheel with suspension, BUT on a castor.
This (lowest friction) wheel's sole job; to keep the distance between the magnets on the bottom of the pan, and a coil or 3 mounted unsuspended with the wheel/s...
:)
Or a magnetic gearbox or drive.
Lotsa vids on that
Magnetic levitation bearing. To take the load of the 'now guide' bearing.
You need to put a measurable load on every type of drive.
The finger torque test looks good :) but tells us little.
That data adds interest...
I built an open trestle postmill 1/4 size, still need to test it, will make a video.
I've seen people using timing belts in similar fashion. guess it depends what you've left over.
You could router out wind turbine wheel and nicely rap the chain around the wood, then their would be no drupping chain, but then your small cog would be vertical
Might be able to use induction to create energy here?
Fabulous 😊
Free energy people are stunned
You could make your wooden desk bigger and actually put the chain into a rebate, suggestion.
"Black streak on the tire" Yeah there's a black streak throughout the tire. Its molded in all black
When you cut and bend the chain, you're changing the pitch of the chain, meaning that the sprocket is no longer a good fit. This will cause significant friction losses and excessive wear. You might find you do better with a different pitch sprocket, to match the final pitch of the modified chain.
You could get the angle grinder out and grind the teeth on the sprockets.
What I really think? Your turbine is massive and will produce huge power. Quit playing with tiny toys and put an automotive differential down there. Firmly mounted to both the structure and mother earth...like in concrete. From there you can use belts, a transmission or whatever to get the speed you need and the diff gives you two outputs which you have plenty of power for.
take a truck rear end, pumkin and axels and do that...youll get more torque
Not to 50!😳...😉😁
Your design uses the chain and sprocket in a way it wasn’t designed. It minimizes contact between the chain and gear, which maximizes wear. Either get or make an 18” chain ring, then set the sprocket to rotate on the vertical axis parallel to the chain ring and run a chain around the two in a manner that a chain drive is designed to function. This will maximize chain/gear contact and minimize wear. Your determination to go your own way ignores the mechanical engineering that you are “almost” using for a more primitive method using the more modern materials. Use the chain and sprocket in the way it was designed, and you will achieve a greater reward for your efforts. By the way I do love the design and size of your vertical axis windmill!
👍
Four words
Get yourself a welder
Dude. You need a welder.