Thank you for this podcast. It hit home with me. I am still not prepared to tell my truth yet. Don't know when I will be. But being able to listen to this program really gives me confidence and help. Please keep up the good work Seth!!
I have to strongly disagree with those who call closeted atheists "cowards." It seems to me these people have either never experienced being truly closeted or have forgotten what it was like. Life is far more complicated than these people make it out to be. I love truth and I also love my family and don't desire for my relationship with them to be different and uncomfortable. It's not that I don't intend to come out, but blurting out everything I now think is not the best strategy in my case.
only my 2 younger sisters & my older brother know of my atheism.I don't have the balls to tell the rest of my family,they're just too judgemental & thoroughly brainwashed.
While your challenges with family will be difficult you have taken the honest step of dealing with your own mind........you live with your thoughts all of the time and to free them from the chains of what you don't believe will serve you peace beyond any found from anyone else, regardless of who they are......I wish you nothing but the best.
wow. What an exellent show, deep thoughtful, searching and full of happiness and centered calm. Thank you for the insights of so many people, including yourself. I will think long on my first step towards finally telling my mom that if she really believes, i can guarantee that she won't be seeing me in her heaven.
My family hasn't reacted violently which is good but they have reacted fairly terribly. They didn't do anything drastic so my life is still in order but they are aggressive about religious differences. They constantly belittle any opposing views and very often make hurtful comments. My uncle said if he was an atheist he would commit suicide because he has nothing to live for and he told it almost as if he were giving advice. My mother says I'm possessed by the devil, my siblings insult me...
+Gouled Hussein That's all just mind control, they won't kill themselves, they LIKE themselves, but they MIGHT kill YOU!! Beware of these people. People who behave that way to you don't deserve you. Get away from them and find other friends to be your family.
you can't help the rollercoaster emo they go through, that's them. but you will find that you feel better by being true to yourself, especially around people who know you.
Good stuff, Seth! I'm looking forward to the weekly podcasts and your upcoming material sounds like it's going to be great. It's a terrible idea to call someone to task when they're just reaching out and have no support system. That doesn't do the cause of atheism any good and it doesn't help the person. And that's exactly what happened to me, years ago, when I first tried to reach out to an atheist community. Immediately, someone confronted me and called me a fraud. People, don't do that.
It hurts me the opinions that some people have about closeted atheists. It is just as difficult, if not more difficult for some people, as coming out as gay. I think everyone's situation is different and before you judge and call names you should practice empathy. Everyone deserves to do it in their own time and nobody deserves to be "outed" until they are ready. It is ok to come out to some people and not others. The ThinkAtheist website has really helped me with this and no one has been mean.
I admire you brother/sister for your honesty and courage. I have not yet "come out" to my family, but I'm getting more and more encouragement everyday from videos like this and comments like yours. I will one day tell my family that I am a skeptical, free-thinking, rational, yet moral person and I do NOT believe in God. No matter what happened/happens, just remember that there are thousands (and hopefully millions) more like you around the world, and we're in this together :-)
And once again you wake up a Friday morning 06:am here in Sweden and you put on a TheThinkingAtheist podcast, breakfast and light a candle and your day is of to a VERY GOOD start =)
Yes atheist should "come out". Christianity is thrown in our faces everywhere we go, and everything we listen to. If it cost you a relationship or friendship, then those are not the people you need around you if they can't except you for who you are.
This was a very encouraging podcast, thank you Seth! Though I still do not have it in me to come out to my mother I'm sure with time I'll find that courage. Coming out to her as gay and child-free was among the most traumatic experiences in my life...I would like to have some peace before burdening her with the fact I am also an Atheist.
Most of my family members are Christian and some of them are on Facebook. My aunts and grandma always post scripture or anti-abortion crap that shows up in my timeline. This pissed me off, so I set it so that their posts won't show up on my page. It's so annoying because I feel like I can't have a real conversation with them about the kind of person I really am out of fear of criticism from them. I have no problem with telling other people, though. I am so proud of being secular.
i am an open atheist but i wasnt always that way. Closet Atheist i've been where you are and all i can say there is nothing better then finally being able to let it out. The day i finally told my parents i had a feeling 1000 better then any other feeling i can imagine. It's like being born again, ironically enough. It's obviously not the same for anyone. Like the guy in the begging some have lots to loose, but in my opinion I'd rather loose everything then live a lie
The moment my best friend told his mother he was an atheist he was thrown out of his home. For no other reason than his lack of faith he was thrown on the streets by his mother. For about a month until he could get back on his feet my family took him in but if not for my family he would have been on the streets. This is just one thing that could happen if you tell your family.
After around 5 years of being a closeted atheist, I finally broke down and told my mom, she chuckled and asked if that was all I was worried about. I know she won't see this post, but I love you mom, thanks for being so accepting.
Right on man! I so badly want to come out, but I think I am a bit too young at the moment. Even though I don't say the pledge of allegiance at school and when someone asks me, I usually say that I don't believe. As long as you don't say the word Atheist no one will really care, but we must use it to dull the word to everyone. So I am going to start using it. Pursue what you want and finish school strong. I'm only in the 8th grade, but I find myself being more intelligent than most my age. ;)
seth is right, writing a letter about your thoughts is an excellent way to think through your ideas and get your mind clear about what and who you are--you can send it out or keep it to yourself, either way it is good to do
@BlackMoonLilith Thank you. I never made any secret of my beliefs or non-beliefs before I was married. But now that I am an atheist married to a muslim, for my husband's sake, I am not shouting my atheism over the rooftops. I respect him and feel the need to protect him from persecution. He likes to live a quiet life without too much social interaction. He's a delicate, sensitive soul who loves peace and harmony and I will help him have that.
I've been god-free for 50 years & have never, ever been in a situation where my religion or lack of it mattered a jot or a tittle. I now live in senior housing & don't have any occasion to discuss religion, although I am aware that many of my friends & aquaintenances go to church on Sunday. Is religion so obnoxiously prevalent today that those who do not conform to the prevailing patterns of thought have to be careful these days?
Seth, Thank you for your hard work. I am in Southeast Kansas, and your vids always make me feel connected and far less isolated. I can't wait for next weeks show I have been waiting to learn what the outcomes of the clergy projects research. Also, Atheists and Homosexuals both know what the inside of a closet feels like. It saddens me when this comparison devolves into a who has it worse game, I know you will not do that, and look forward to learning something new.
The part about discrimination is so true. Sometimes it's even so subtle that even the person discriminating doesn't realize it. Often though it is very intentional. I actually knew a guy from an extreme fundamental religion (one that even shuns jewelry) who hires for a company. He said that he thought less of someone during an interview if they wore jewelry. He probably wouldn't even considering hiring someone he knew was an atheist.
I've been an atheist since about age 15, I used to hide my belief in the euphemism 'secular humanist' but about the age of 20 finally found the courage to declare my atheism. To their credit my family accepted me anyway and lo these past 30 years many of them have joined me! Jesus Christ I'm lucky!
I just found this podcast. I am one of those gay/atheists. I came out 10 years ago and it changed everything with 90% of the church people I knew and went to church with for just a short time and up to 35 years. Most of them cut me off. Only a few maintain contact. I don't know what wold happen if I came out a atheist, as well. I know I am not alone. Things may manifest when I attend FFRF conference this November, and they ask why I went to San Francisco. We will see.
I live in Switzerland and it's completely the other way around here, at least to my experience. People get at least odd looks if they tell others they are believers, churches are basically empty except on Christmas and most people call themselve agnostic. For that reason I have to say there was really no "coming out" for me when I started calling myself atheist instead of agnostic. The USA has come a long way since its secular roots, I hope you guys succeed in going back to it, fingers crossed.
I just put a well written respectful note on my room's door that's titled in a very un-assuming manner, and it's mid-night. Once I wake up first thing in the morning my family will get the message that I'm done with Islam (I live in Canada). This is probably the most courageous thing I've done in my life, I can already feel the dis-ownment of my family but I am not taking down that note. Oh my god my brain hurts. My family's gonna hate me, and my life will be hell, but I've gotta be honest.
They've accepted that we have differing views but they tend to insult me by referring to me as insane, stupid, or possessed. It's obvious from the way my parents and older siblings talk about it that they don't respect my views but they expect me to respect theirs the best I can. I'm surprised and happy nothing drastic has happened. The worst thing was my uncle came to visit and he wasn't just harassing me, it was down right hate speech.
I came out as an atheist to my best friend (I prefer the term "Non-biological Brother" a couple months ago. I was scared to death that he would drift away after, but we had a nice conversation and then moved on. True friendship surpasses religion.
@gushalle I'm in North Texas, and the people at my work began to call me a terrorist when they found out I was an atheist. They leave pamphlets about their churches on my desk from time to time and tell me they're praying for me. My sister brings up God every chance she gets and still begs me to pray for people. It can get pretty intense at times for some of us.
Take A Moment My fellow Ape's Get out and enjoy the only life we know we have. 🎉 Jul 2023. Jester Moon here from Calgary Alberta Untruedauxland Stay Safe, it's still crazy today. We are at the tail end of a pandemic. PTSD is a worldwide issue. Speak Freely Stay Silly Have a giggle Stay Safe Stay Free ❤ I'm The Wizard of Silly. Love and Concent is all we need. No gods required
I'm looking forward to a regular podcast schedule. I am subscribed so I can listen to these all after the fact, but I'd like having the option to call in at some point.
I have never realized how fortunate I am to live in the Netherlands where there is not so much religious pressure... I have never struggled to be an atheist...
I'm also a closet Atheist... My parents, well, basically my whole family, are Christians. They're not big into it, but we do go to Church every Sunday. They shoved Christianity down my throat and I'm afraid if I said anything about not believing in God, they'll... I don't even wanna know what they'll do. I don't believe in God, and no matter how many times they try to convince me he exists, there's a lot more reason to believe he doesn't...
My sympathy to isolated Atheists... there is a growing community on-line that can help support you. find it. you might find some of them live not far from you...
The closet is a complicated place. But those complexities revolve around the situation and circumstances the people who are in it, are experiencing. I am a Bisexual, an Atheist and the issues surrounding those complex problems can keep youtrapped in the closet for quite a long time. Unless you hav the capacity or the empathy to walk in another persons shoes or really experience their circumstances it is inadvisable to step out of it especially if you are unprepared for the backlash.
I think it's dangerous territory when people begin judging each other on whether they're a 'true' non-believer or not (where do you hear something similar?)... It was tough hearing about some of these stories and I can't help but feel with people who aren't allowed to be true to themselves among their friends and family - knowing or thinking that they'll disown you for your belief - in spite of the wonderful beings that you are - is very sad. Best hopes and let's work for a better future.
To the first guy who sent in the e-mail about his wife probably leaving him if she found out: I know it is easy for me to say sitting here, but just tell her, and if she leaves you then walk away. If she really leaves you for it she never really loved you, you were just a trophy to her, someone to wave around and go "oh look at my good Christian husband." Don't waste your one life you have on someone who expects you to conform only to what THEY want.
listen guys, if your a closet atheist, just let it go don't let people hold you down and not let you be .. you. it will always be hard at first but time heals all wounds. With family slowly bring it up to them and allow them to still see you as there son or daughter which they care and love for. Don't bring up religion and thus cause them to see you as just an atheist, and cause them to loss sight of who you are to them.
@Aezelll I was on that boat. I was able to rationalize with her, though it wasn't without argument. I suppose we'll butt heads again in the future especially with our kids, but it has been determined that we love each other too much to let disagreements like this get in the way.
I'm in a situation where I will be homeless if I come out. If your life, or your living situation, or safety, depend on it. There's nothing wrong with being silent. Until you can get on your feet. But try to get out As soon as you can.
I'm probably one of the more fortunate people here, I never had to BE in a closet because, while my parents are still somewhat religious, they are the most open and accepting people you will ever know. My dad learned that I was an atheist, quite by accident, when I was taking a survey poll on the phone when he was in the room. When they asked for my religious affiliation I replied "Atheist" and when it was over my dad said "So your an Atheist?" I answered "Yes" more or less and he said "Okay."
@Seth The most moral choice is, by definition, the one that will produce the result that makes a better world. The question is, simply, whether shouting it out, or acting covertly, had the better chance of success. Standing up loudly and getting executed isn't as moral as being covert and achieving results. And staying hidden without taking great action is less moral than speaking out and achieving results. Morality isn't about principles, it's about improvement.
remember that even if you are not of the same belief structure there is still the bond between you and them through the whole parent thing and understand that they love you even if they don't accept your choices all the time, they still want the best for you, use your understanding of this, "look, i know you love me and that you want the best for me always, but i really don't feel that ...." it shows respect for their underlying feelings and personalizes the decision. then, rollercoaster emo
I don't advertise my atheism in the bible belt......in my workplace and in my networking relationships the business climate is such that you meet a prospect and it goes like this........."so where are you from?".....................then the next question is "where do you go to church"....................if you can't answer the 2nd one you've lost the business.
I was atheist for about a month before i came out of the atheist closet.I didn't have any problems with my family or friends.Everyone. has accepted me for whom I am.
All very true ... But I have found once you start to talk about it in a non-confrontatial manner, you soon find many people actual agree with you and are releved to find out you can talk about atheism without a bolt of lightening strike them down. We need to break down the barriers and dispel the fear.
Thanks so much for this podcast. I, too, am a closet atheist. My problem is that I can't stand people who are 'in your face' with their religion. How, then, can I be 'in your face' with my atheism without being a complete hypocrite? I usually just wuss out with the 'I'm not into organized religion' and leave it at that.
The problems with coming out as an atheist seem to be much more a problem in America than the UK were I'm from, nobody cared when I came out, they were indifferent. Also I've seen lots of people in college as open atheists and people are very apathetic towards people religious views being much more interested rather in other traits of a persons personality.
I'm Canadian and I guess I'm halfway out of the closet. Most of my friends know I'm an atheist, but none of my family does. I was raised Catholic, and for the first 18 years of my life I went to church every Sunday. I've never really felt a connection to God, my "relationship" with him was basically praying for things that I wanted to happen in my life. For the last 4 years I've been living as an Atheist. Any tips on how to come out to my family? I think I'll break my mother's heart.
Well i have begun to let my family know of my atheism. I think in terms of my family I just see wishy washy to them. I went from non belief to belief to non belief so I understand. Having been a cheerleader for god myself you instantly go for the " things are hard and I'll pray for you" solution.
Sam presented his point with extreme examples but his point was good. Where reason and logic have no chance of prevailing there is an alternative however it need not be “dishonest”. We need to gain the trust of blind believers (not with deception but with subtlety). Those who will not listen need to be helped to discover that we are not their enemies even though God himself would burn us eternally. Like you, I am sympathetic with the religious. To win ‘our’ love must be stronger than theirs.
Wtf? You are mentioning something that was necessary 77 years ago and never again! Voliš Amere što imaju strah od A-bombe. Oni mogu biti meta za razliku od Srbije, a i mnogi u Srbiji javno izjavljuju isto. Gluposti koje dolaze iz Srbije su nenadmašne!
I am out to my closest friends and family. But as an Atheist in a Catholic school I try to hide it from my teachers. I don't think they would discriminate, they are all nice people. but I would rather be safe then have any marks suffer because of it. I find religion to be the most difficult class, I don't want to say the wrong thing and be an obvious Atheist to my teacher. XD Great Podcast! I love your videos :)
Why is there some need for conviction among Atheists? Why a need to prove yourself Atheist enough for other Atheists? The notion seems completely ridiculous to me! Conviction is for religious people, they are the ones who waste countless years of their lives trying to prove they're good enough. As I am slowly "becoming an Atheist" I feel like it should be liberating. Not just another group where I need to prove myself to strangers who can't keep their nose out of my business.
In Hungary most people are atheists. Even those who are religious are usually very mild about it. In politics it's getting a bit different. There are a few politicians who are expressing religious views and especially talk about restricting abortion and things like that. However, that isn't only religious either, because we have a decreasing population and we're a small nation state, so maintaining a certain number of population is needed.
I would advise Trapped to start reading books on Christian Apologetics, and discussing selected points (especially Theodicy) with his wife. In the process of going deeply into the justifications, he can frame his quest as a search for deeper understanding (which it is) and become focused on the problem of why bad things happen to good people. His wife is not going to be able to object to his advanced study of Christianity, and along the road he can "find out" about all the problems.
well, as i read in the comments down there it seems im not the only closet-atheist! my situation is kind of HARD... i live with my mom a very closed-minded/Adventist person and FORCE me to go to church every time she goes... i have no choice... once i was talking about evolution, and she started to cry and said she was very disappointed about me. i felt like... Damn i did not even tell her i was an atheist and she was like that?? what would be like when i tell her what i think about christianity
I'm sort of a closet atheist. I say it that way because I don't come from a situation where Seth was in 2007 and 2008. His, and other families are EXTREMELY devout and will literally disown a family member or friend. It also can depend on not only the family, but the location of the world/ USA. Where Seth is from in Tulsa, OK., it could lead to loss of job opportunities and loss of a job and I mean that very literally. There are parts of where I live which is in the Midwest near Seth that when you introduce yourself to them, one of the first questions they ask is "where do you go to church?" For some parts of the country, that is very foreign to hear, but quite common here (and more so where Seth is located). I have a friend who moved to Wichita, KS. from California. She told me that she had never been asked that "where do you go to church?" question until moving to the Midwest from the west coast.
In the last fifteen minutes, Seth spoke about what arguments the people "coming out" will hear. The "I had a near-death experience and you can't tell me I didn't," you just have to realize that no, you can't tell them it didn't happen because you weren't inside their minds. I will say this; since 2001 (when I was 26), I have had three near-death experiences. 1. I wound up with meningitis and was in a coma for a week or so. 2. Two seizures since the age of 35. I NEVER saw a bright light, never saw myself from an out of body experience. I just don't think they did, but can't prove they didn't.
As a believer, I apologize to all who must suffer the closet for whatever reason. I am sorry that it is not part of everyone's education to learn the respect of everyone's boundaries. I willingly share from my background if you want to hear, but even that may be TMI. Boundaries are sacred to me, your life is sacred to me. May you find peace and truth in your life. Again, I apologize.
@saintpine I grew up in mostly catholic Massachusetts (USA), and even 35-40 years ago when I was a teen, no one talked about God, and church was something you did on Christmas, and Easter. Mostly the belief in God was something you did because you wanted to be reunited with loved ones when you died. While that's a powerful motivation I think in secular areas of the country, where the stigma of non-belief is almost non-existent the floodgates could burst at any time.
I've grown up not knowing the word atheist. I just told everyone, "I don't have a denomination" and I never got flack for it. My Dog Tags in the Army said, "no denomination" and no one said ANYTHING. It wasn't until the word atheist became the debating topic that I'm freaking out that people will start to seek me out and dehumanize me for being atheist, now!!! Hasn't happened yet, but... Still. This radio show is scaring me.
As a fellow atheist.I see this as a difficult situation. just as with the GLBT community. in order to grow and gain acceptance they had to put themselves out there. Even now however far they have come. they still fight against a stigma. We have a duty to one another to come out and be vocal. Yet I understand that I have no right to demand action from my fellows. As a group we need to move forward together but understand that the fear is paralysing. Only with an open palm can we move on together.
For the atheist who say that closet atheist set us back my response is pound sand. These people don't owe any of us anything. We can't be so ignorant to ask them to sacrifice their complicated situation(s) just so they scan stand by our side and be counted as atheist. They have to do what is best for them and I could care less what that does to the greater atheist community. They have no obligation to us so get over it. To those in the closet, To thine own self be true!!! You are not alone.
@TheRobinL Even though we don't have to face the issues many atheists face because of their environment, it's still fascinating to hear all the stories and thoughts that come up when people leave the faith I guess we have it easy over here(Europe)
I flinch every time someone talks about "losing friends" - it's like the saying "If they are nice to you but aren't nice to the waiter, they aren't a nice person." If they leave you as a friend, it doesn't matter, they are horrible/stupid/ignorant people. There are plenty of people who'd love to be a true friend to you.
Thank you for bringing up the difficulties that Muslim Apostates face in foreign countries - that is a great point. Christians who claim that they feel "Persecuted" here in the U.S. should look into the figures for Christianity in Somalia, Iran, etc.
"Forgive me for saying this, but you give the impression of someone who has never read any of the arguments against your position, ever." - Christopher Hitchens, classic
@Aezelll my wife's family is very religious, i have never said to them ' im an atheist" but i never had to, and they except me for me, they joke about asking me to church and such, but they never bug me for it. my wife was rather religious, and she still is, as a pagan, and i love her for making up her own mind on things, like you said, if they love you, religion isn't too important. but take it slowly, start with, im not sure about god, and work from there.
My mother at first threatened sending me to an Islamic school in Saudi Arabia to 'rehabilitate' me. Most of their aggression are in words but they have yet to back up and explicit threat. I've been to myself and distancing myself from religious conversation. I'm in 11th grade and I'm going to make sure I'm on my own in post secondary then I plan on moving different city so I don't think I'll have to put up with much of that anymore.
I am so glad that i live in Denmark. Over here, if you go to church you are considered a museum piece.
This podcast took the pit out of my stomach and gave me hope. Thank you.
It may not matter, coming from me, a random person on the Internet, but you have my respect for standing up in what you truly believe in.
You are courageous and stand for truth and honesty! I applaud you sir.
Thank you for this podcast. It hit home with me. I am still not prepared to tell my truth yet. Don't know when I will be. But being able to listen to this program really gives me confidence and help. Please keep up the good work Seth!!
I have to strongly disagree with those who call closeted atheists "cowards." It seems to me these people have either never experienced being truly closeted or have forgotten what it was like. Life is far more complicated than these people make it out to be. I love truth and I also love my family and don't desire for my relationship with them to be different and uncomfortable. It's not that I don't intend to come out, but blurting out everything I now think is not the best strategy in my case.
Anna Banana I'm a PK who is skeptical. Telling any family members or anyone in my immediate family is absolutely out of the question.
only my 2 younger sisters & my older brother know of my atheism.I don't have the balls to tell the rest of my family,they're just too judgemental & thoroughly brainwashed.
While your challenges with family will be difficult you have taken the honest step of dealing with your own mind........you live with your thoughts all of the time and to free them from the chains of what you don't believe will serve you peace beyond any found from anyone else, regardless of who they are......I wish you nothing but the best.
wow. What an exellent show, deep thoughtful, searching and full of happiness and centered calm. Thank you for the insights of so many people, including yourself. I will think long on my first step towards finally telling my mom that if she really believes, i can guarantee that she won't be seeing me in her heaven.
My family hasn't reacted violently which is good but they have reacted fairly terribly. They didn't do anything drastic so my life is still in order but they are aggressive about religious differences. They constantly belittle any opposing views and very often make hurtful comments. My uncle said if he was an atheist he would commit suicide because he has nothing to live for and he told it almost as if he were giving advice. My mother says I'm possessed by the devil, my siblings insult me...
+Gouled Hussein
That's all just mind control, they won't kill themselves, they LIKE themselves, but they MIGHT kill YOU!! Beware of these people. People who behave that way to you don't deserve you. Get away from them and find other friends to be your family.
your family are all crazy, as a result of brainwashed at their early age.
Glad to see this getting so many hits.
you can't help the rollercoaster emo they go through, that's them. but you will find that you feel better by being true to yourself, especially around people who know you.
I respect your choice to be so courageous and uncompromising, I hope things turn out well for you.
What about parents who will disown you if you come out? I'm dealing with that.
Good stuff, Seth! I'm looking forward to the weekly podcasts and your upcoming material sounds like it's going to be great.
It's a terrible idea to call someone to task when they're just reaching out and have no support system. That doesn't do the cause of atheism any good and it doesn't help the person. And that's exactly what happened to me, years ago, when I first tried to reach out to an atheist community. Immediately, someone confronted me and called me a fraud. People, don't do that.
I found myself thinking "I'm a human being, my life has value!" when you said the last sentence.
It hurts me the opinions that some people have about closeted atheists. It is just as difficult, if not more difficult for some people, as coming out as gay. I think everyone's situation is different and before you judge and call names you should practice empathy. Everyone deserves to do it in their own time and nobody deserves to be "outed" until they are ready. It is ok to come out to some people and not others. The ThinkAtheist website has really helped me with this and no one has been mean.
I admire you brother/sister for your honesty and courage. I have not yet "come out" to my family, but I'm getting more and more encouragement everyday from videos like this and comments like yours. I will one day tell my family that I am a skeptical, free-thinking, rational, yet moral person and I do NOT believe in God. No matter what happened/happens, just remember that there are thousands (and hopefully millions) more like you around the world, and we're in this together :-)
TIME TO COME OUT IS now
"2011 was a tough, tough year".
Aw man, I'm so sorry. Best regards from 2020
And once again you wake up a Friday morning 06:am here in Sweden and you put on a TheThinkingAtheist podcast, breakfast and light a candle and your day is of to a VERY GOOD start =)
Damn you have a way of reading letters, you are true story teller TTA! Your voice is truly awesome.
Yes atheist should "come out". Christianity is thrown in our faces everywhere we go, and everything we listen to. If it cost you a relationship or friendship, then those are not the people you need around you if they can't except you for who you are.
I know. Like Christian radio stations. MAKE THEM STOP!!!
Dogdamn46 agree
This was a very encouraging podcast, thank you Seth! Though I still do not have it in me to come out to my mother I'm sure with time I'll find that courage. Coming out to her as gay and child-free was among the most traumatic experiences in my life...I would like to have some peace before burdening her with the fact I am also an Atheist.
Most of my family members are Christian and some of them are on Facebook. My aunts and grandma always post scripture or anti-abortion crap that shows up in my timeline. This pissed me off, so I set it so that their posts won't show up on my page. It's so annoying because I feel like I can't have a real conversation with them about the kind of person I really am out of fear of criticism from them. I have no problem with telling other people, though. I am so proud of being secular.
This was a great podcast. Very informative
i am an open atheist but i wasnt always that way. Closet Atheist i've been where you are and all i can say there is nothing better then finally being able to let it out. The day i finally told my parents i had a feeling 1000 better then any other feeling i can imagine. It's like being born again, ironically enough. It's obviously not the same for anyone. Like the guy in the begging some have lots to loose, but in my opinion I'd rather loose everything then live a lie
The moment my best friend told his mother he was an atheist he was thrown out of his home. For no other reason than his lack of faith he was thrown on the streets by his mother. For about a month until he could get back on his feet my family took him in but if not for my family he would have been on the streets. This is just one thing that could happen if you tell your family.
After around 5 years of being a closeted atheist, I finally broke down and told my mom, she chuckled and asked if that was all I was worried about. I know she won't see this post, but I love you mom, thanks for being so accepting.
Right on man! I so badly want to come out, but I think I am a bit too young at the moment. Even though I don't say the pledge of allegiance at school and when someone asks me, I usually say that I don't believe. As long as you don't say the word Atheist no one will really care, but we must use it to dull the word to everyone. So I am going to start using it. Pursue what you want and finish school strong. I'm only in the 8th grade, but I find myself being more intelligent than most my age. ;)
Gosh, that opening brings back memories from When I first became aware that I am atheist. I just binged this podcast for answers.
Going thru that right now… so surreal. Just discovered these podcasts about 2 wks ago
"Write the letter" best advise I have ever heard on the subject.
seth is right, writing a letter about your thoughts is an excellent way to think through your ideas and get your mind clear about what and who you are--you can send it out or keep it to yourself, either way it is good to do
@BlackMoonLilith Thank you. I never made any secret of my beliefs or non-beliefs before I was married. But now that I am an atheist married to a muslim, for my husband's sake, I am not shouting my atheism over the rooftops. I respect him and feel the need to protect him from persecution. He likes to live a quiet life without too much social interaction. He's a delicate, sensitive soul who loves peace and harmony and I will help him have that.
I've been god-free for 50 years & have never, ever been in a situation where my religion or lack of it mattered a jot or a tittle. I now live in senior housing & don't have any occasion to discuss religion, although I am aware that many of my friends & aquaintenances go to church on Sunday. Is religion so obnoxiously prevalent today that those who do not conform to the prevailing patterns of thought have to be careful these days?
Seth, Thank you for your hard work. I am in Southeast Kansas, and your vids always make me feel connected and far less isolated. I can't wait for next weeks show I have been waiting to learn what the outcomes of the clergy projects research. Also, Atheists and Homosexuals both know what the inside of a closet feels like. It saddens me when this comparison devolves into a who has it worse game, I know you will not do that, and look forward to learning something new.
The part about discrimination is so true. Sometimes it's even so subtle that even the person discriminating doesn't realize it. Often though it is very intentional. I actually knew a guy from an extreme fundamental religion (one that even shuns jewelry) who hires for a company. He said that he thought less of someone during an interview if they wore jewelry. He probably wouldn't even considering hiring someone he knew was an atheist.
I've been an atheist since about age 15, I used to hide my belief in the euphemism 'secular humanist' but about the age of 20 finally found the courage to declare my atheism. To their credit my family accepted me anyway and lo these past 30 years many of them have joined me! Jesus Christ I'm lucky!
I just found this podcast. I am one of those gay/atheists. I came out 10 years ago and it changed everything with 90% of the church people I knew and went to church with for just a short time and up to 35 years. Most of them cut me off. Only a few maintain contact. I don't know what wold happen if I came out a atheist, as well. I know I am not alone. Things may manifest when I attend FFRF conference this November, and they ask why I went to San Francisco. We will see.
I live in Switzerland and it's completely the other way around here, at least to my experience. People get at least odd looks if they tell others they are believers, churches are basically empty except on Christmas and most people call themselve agnostic. For that reason I have to say there was really no "coming out" for me when I started calling myself atheist instead of agnostic. The USA has come a long way since its secular roots, I hope you guys succeed in going back to it, fingers crossed.
That was an amazing podcast. Was great listening. Good luck to all the atheists who still have to come out of the closet.
I just put a well written respectful note on my room's door that's titled in a very un-assuming manner, and it's mid-night. Once I wake up first thing in the morning my family will get the message that I'm done with Islam (I live in Canada). This is probably the most courageous thing I've done in my life, I can already feel the dis-ownment of my family but I am not taking down that note. Oh my god my brain hurts. My family's gonna hate me, and my life will be hell, but I've gotta be honest.
Wow. I hope it went well for you in the morning. If not know you aren't alone. I don't even have the guts to do what you did.
They've accepted that we have differing views but they tend to insult me by referring to me as insane, stupid, or possessed. It's obvious from the way my parents and older siblings talk about it that they don't respect my views but they expect me to respect theirs the best I can. I'm surprised and happy nothing drastic has happened. The worst thing was my uncle came to visit and he wasn't just harassing me, it was down right hate speech.
I came out as an atheist to my best friend (I prefer the term "Non-biological Brother" a couple months ago. I was scared to death that he would drift away after, but we had a nice conversation and then moved on. True friendship surpasses religion.
great program....thanks
@gushalle I'm in North Texas, and the people at my work began to call me a terrorist when they found out I was an atheist. They leave pamphlets about their churches on my desk from time to time and tell me they're praying for me. My sister brings up God every chance she gets and still begs me to pray for people. It can get pretty intense at times for some of us.
I accidentally posted this to my facebook and left it up all day. I am so fucked.
Great show!
Take A Moment
My fellow Ape's
Get out and enjoy the only life we know we have. 🎉
Jul 2023.
Jester Moon here from Calgary Alberta Untruedauxland
Stay Safe, it's still crazy today.
We are at the tail end of a pandemic. PTSD is a worldwide issue.
Speak Freely
Stay Silly
Have a giggle
Stay Safe
Stay Free ❤
I'm The Wizard of Silly.
Love and Concent is all we need.
No gods required
Catherine and Amanda both said it perfectly.
I'm looking forward to a regular podcast schedule. I am subscribed so I can listen to these all after the fact, but I'd like having the option to call in at some point.
I have never realized how fortunate I am to live in the Netherlands where there is not so much religious pressure... I have never struggled to be an atheist...
I'm also a closet Atheist... My parents, well, basically my whole family, are Christians. They're not big into it, but we do go to Church every Sunday. They shoved Christianity down my throat and I'm afraid if I said anything about not believing in God, they'll... I don't even wanna know what they'll do. I don't believe in God, and no matter how many times they try to convince me he exists, there's a lot more reason to believe he doesn't...
come out and be honest. Their opinion it is not better than yours.
can you make a "Help! I'm a Closet Atheist" part 2? these stories and discussions are fun to listen to. please :p
I agree. Well maybe not fun but definitely interesting and very helpful in my own life.
My sympathy to isolated Atheists... there is a growing community on-line that can help support you. find it. you might find some of them live not far from you...
The closet is a complicated place. But those complexities revolve around the situation and circumstances the people who are in it, are experiencing. I am a Bisexual, an Atheist and the issues surrounding those complex problems can keep youtrapped in the closet for quite a long time. Unless you hav the capacity or the empathy to walk in another persons shoes or really experience their circumstances it is inadvisable to step out of it especially if you are unprepared for the backlash.
Lovely Quality! When this is over I'll post my response.
I think it's dangerous territory when people begin judging each other on whether they're a 'true' non-believer or not (where do you hear something similar?)...
It was tough hearing about some of these stories and I can't help but feel with people who aren't allowed to be true to themselves among their friends and family - knowing or thinking that they'll disown you for your belief - in spite of the wonderful beings that you are - is very sad.
Best hopes and let's work for a better future.
To the first guy who sent in the e-mail about his wife probably leaving him if she found out: I know it is easy for me to say sitting here, but just tell her, and if she leaves you then walk away. If she really leaves you for it she never really loved you, you were just a trophy to her, someone to wave around and go "oh look at my good Christian husband." Don't waste your one life you have on someone who expects you to conform only to what THEY want.
listen guys, if your a closet atheist, just let it go don't let people hold you down and not let you be .. you.
it will always be hard at first but time heals all wounds. With family slowly bring it up to them and allow them to still see you as there son or daughter which they care and love for.
Don't bring up religion and thus cause them to see you as just an atheist, and cause them to loss sight of who you are to them.
@MoviesFromG that is very touching and factual. good for you man
@Aezelll I was on that boat. I was able to rationalize with her, though it wasn't without argument. I suppose we'll butt heads again in the future especially with our kids, but it has been determined that we love each other too much to let disagreements like this get in the way.
I'm in a situation where I will be homeless if I come out. If your life, or your living situation, or safety, depend on it. There's nothing wrong with being silent. Until you can get on your feet. But try to get out As soon as you can.
I'm probably one of the more fortunate people here, I never had to BE in a closet because, while my parents are still somewhat religious, they are the most open and accepting people you will ever know. My dad learned that I was an atheist, quite by accident, when I was taking a survey poll on the phone when he was in the room. When they asked for my religious affiliation I replied "Atheist" and when it was over my dad said "So your an Atheist?" I answered "Yes" more or less and he said "Okay."
@Seth The most moral choice is, by definition, the one that will produce the result that makes a better world.
The question is, simply, whether shouting it out, or acting covertly, had the better chance of success. Standing up loudly and getting executed isn't as moral as being covert and achieving results. And staying hidden without taking great action is less moral than speaking out and achieving results.
Morality isn't about principles, it's about improvement.
remember that even if you are not of the same belief structure there is still the bond between you and them through the whole parent thing and understand that they love you even if they don't accept your choices all the time, they still want the best for you, use your understanding of this, "look, i know you love me and that you want the best for me always, but i really don't feel that ...." it shows respect for their underlying feelings and personalizes the decision. then, rollercoaster emo
I liked the caller Sam, he is awesome!
I don't advertise my atheism in the bible belt......in my workplace and in my networking relationships the business climate is such that you meet a prospect and it goes like this........."so where are you from?".....................then the next question is "where do you go to church"....................if you can't answer the 2nd one you've lost the business.
I was atheist for about a month before i came out of the atheist closet.I didn't have any problems with my family or friends.Everyone. has accepted me for whom I am.
IN YOUR CULTURE! pretty thoughtful as to how the town might be a better place...
I like the quality audio!
All very true ... But I have found once you start to talk about it in a non-confrontatial manner, you soon find many people actual agree with you and are releved to find out you can talk about atheism without a bolt of lightening strike them down. We need to break down the barriers and dispel the fear.
Thanks so much for this podcast. I, too, am a closet atheist. My problem is that I can't stand people who are 'in your face' with their religion. How, then, can I be 'in your face' with my atheism without being a complete hypocrite? I usually just wuss out with the 'I'm not into organized religion' and leave it at that.
Very good show indeed, very good show indeeeeeed.
As an ex muslim it's always great to hear somebody in the islamic world being rational.
The problems with coming out as an atheist seem to be much more a problem in America than the UK were I'm from, nobody cared when I came out, they were indifferent. Also I've seen lots of people in college as open atheists and people are very apathetic towards people religious views being much more interested rather in other traits of a persons personality.
That would be awesome! Ride on!
I'm Canadian and I guess I'm halfway out of the closet. Most of my friends know I'm an atheist, but none of my family does. I was raised Catholic, and for the first 18 years of my life I went to church every Sunday. I've never really felt a connection to God, my "relationship" with him was basically praying for things that I wanted to happen in my life. For the last 4 years I've been living as an Atheist. Any tips on how to come out to my family? I think I'll break my mother's heart.
I'm happy that there's an improvement in quality, not that it was bad before.
Well i have begun to let my family know of my atheism. I think in terms of my family I just see wishy washy to them. I went from non belief to belief to non belief so I understand. Having been a cheerleader for god myself you instantly go for the " things are hard and I'll pray for you" solution.
Sam presented his point with extreme examples but his point was good. Where reason and logic have no chance of prevailing there is an alternative however it need not be “dishonest”. We need to gain the trust of blind believers (not with deception but with subtlety). Those who will not listen need to be helped to discover that we are not their enemies even though God himself would burn us eternally. Like you, I am sympathetic with the religious. To win ‘our’ love must be stronger than theirs.
I love how US people comment on how they are afraid of some1 popping an A-bomb on them while being the only country to use such weapons
We did not know it would blow them to smithereens. We thought it would be a big explosion, but not smithereens. Terrible, horrible, and unbearable. 😰
+Razhender Wild
That's not true, we exploded one in the desert, we knew EXACTLY what it would do, and then we did it to the Japanese TWICE!!
Wtf? You are mentioning something that was necessary 77 years ago and never again! Voliš Amere što imaju strah od A-bombe. Oni mogu biti meta za razliku od Srbije, a i mnogi u Srbiji javno izjavljuju isto. Gluposti koje dolaze iz Srbije su nenadmašne!
I am out to my closest friends and family. But as an Atheist in a Catholic school I try to hide it from my teachers. I don't think they would discriminate, they are all nice people. but I would rather be safe then have any marks suffer because of it. I find religion to be the most difficult class, I don't want to say the wrong thing and be an obvious Atheist to my teacher. XD
Great Podcast! I love your videos :)
Why is there some need for conviction among Atheists? Why a need to prove yourself Atheist enough for other Atheists? The notion seems completely ridiculous to me! Conviction is for religious people, they are the ones who waste countless years of their lives trying to prove they're good enough. As I am slowly "becoming an Atheist" I feel like it should be liberating. Not just another group where I need to prove myself to strangers who can't keep their nose out of my business.
In Hungary most people are atheists. Even those who are religious are usually very mild about it. In politics it's getting a bit different. There are a few politicians who are expressing religious views and especially talk about restricting abortion and things like that. However, that isn't only religious either, because we have a decreasing population and we're a small nation state, so maintaining a certain number of population is needed.
I would advise Trapped to start reading books on Christian Apologetics, and discussing selected points (especially Theodicy) with his wife. In the process of going deeply into the justifications, he can frame his quest as a search for deeper understanding (which it is) and become focused on the problem of why bad things happen to good people. His wife is not going to be able to object to his advanced study of Christianity, and along the road he can "find out" about all the problems.
well, as i read in the comments down there it seems im not the only closet-atheist! my situation is kind of HARD... i live with my mom a very closed-minded/Adventist person and FORCE me to go to church every time she goes... i have no choice... once i was talking about evolution, and she started to cry and said she was very disappointed about me. i felt like... Damn i did not even tell her i was an atheist and she was like that?? what would be like when i tell her what i think about christianity
I'm sort of a closet atheist. I say it that way because I don't come from a situation where Seth was in 2007 and 2008. His, and other families are EXTREMELY devout and will literally disown a family member or friend. It also can depend on not only the family, but the location of the world/ USA. Where Seth is from in Tulsa, OK., it could lead to loss of job opportunities and loss of a job and I mean that very literally. There are parts of where I live which is in the Midwest near Seth that when you introduce yourself to them, one of the first questions they ask is "where do you go to church?" For some parts of the country, that is very foreign to hear, but quite common here (and more so where Seth is located). I have a friend who moved to Wichita, KS. from California. She told me that she had never been asked that "where do you go to church?" question until moving to the Midwest from the west coast.
In the last fifteen minutes, Seth spoke about what arguments the people "coming out" will hear. The "I had a near-death experience and you can't tell me I didn't," you just have to realize that no, you can't tell them it didn't happen because you weren't inside their minds. I will say this; since 2001 (when I was 26), I have had three near-death experiences. 1. I wound up with meningitis and was in a coma for a week or so. 2. Two seizures since the age of 35. I NEVER saw a bright light, never saw myself from an out of body experience. I just don't think they did, but can't prove they didn't.
As a believer, I apologize to all who must suffer the closet for whatever reason. I am sorry that it is not part of everyone's education to learn the respect of everyone's boundaries. I willingly share from my background if you want to hear, but even that may be TMI. Boundaries are sacred to me, your life is sacred to me. May you find peace and truth in your life. Again, I apologize.
@saintpine
I grew up in mostly catholic Massachusetts (USA), and even 35-40 years ago when I was a teen, no one talked about God, and church was something you did on Christmas, and Easter. Mostly the belief in God was something you did because you wanted to be reunited with loved ones when you died. While that's a powerful motivation I think in secular areas of the country, where the stigma of non-belief is almost non-existent the floodgates could burst at any time.
I've grown up not knowing the word atheist. I just told everyone, "I don't have a denomination" and I never got flack for it. My Dog Tags in the Army said, "no denomination" and no one said ANYTHING. It wasn't until the word atheist became the debating topic that I'm freaking out that people will start to seek me out and dehumanize me for being atheist, now!!! Hasn't happened yet, but... Still. This radio show is scaring me.
As a fellow atheist.I see this as a difficult situation. just as with the GLBT community. in order to grow and gain acceptance they had to put themselves out there. Even now however far they have come. they still fight against a stigma. We have a duty to one another to come out and be vocal. Yet I understand that I have no right to demand action from my fellows. As a group we need to move forward together but understand that the fear is paralysing. Only with an open palm can we move on together.
For the atheist who say that closet atheist set us back my response is pound sand. These people don't owe any of us anything. We can't be so ignorant to ask them to sacrifice their complicated situation(s) just so they scan stand by our side and be counted as atheist. They have to do what is best for them and I could care less what that does to the greater atheist community. They have no obligation to us so get over it. To those in the closet, To thine own self be true!!! You are not alone.
@TheRobinL
Even though we don't have to face the issues many atheists face because of their environment, it's still fascinating to hear all the stories and thoughts that come up when people leave the faith
I guess we have it easy over here(Europe)
I flinch every time someone talks about "losing friends" - it's like the saying "If they are nice to you but aren't nice to the waiter, they aren't a nice person." If they leave you as a friend, it doesn't matter, they are horrible/stupid/ignorant people. There are plenty of people who'd love to be a true friend to you.
Thank you for bringing up the difficulties that Muslim Apostates face in foreign countries - that is a great point. Christians who claim that they feel "Persecuted" here in the U.S. should look into the figures for Christianity in Somalia, Iran, etc.
"Forgive me for saying this, but you give the impression of someone who has never read any of the arguments against your position, ever." - Christopher Hitchens, classic
@Aezelll my wife's family is very religious, i have never said to them ' im an atheist" but i never had to, and they except me for me, they joke about asking me to church and such, but they never bug me for it. my wife was rather religious, and she still is, as a pagan, and i love her for making up her own mind on things, like you said, if they love you, religion isn't too important. but take it slowly, start with, im not sure about god, and work from there.
Good sound quality!
My mother at first threatened sending me to an Islamic school in Saudi Arabia to 'rehabilitate' me. Most of their aggression are in words but they have yet to back up and explicit threat. I've been to myself and distancing myself from religious conversation. I'm in 11th grade and I'm going to make sure I'm on my own in post secondary then I plan on moving different city so I don't think I'll have to put up with much of that anymore.
I just don't want to get kicked out of my folks' house before I'm able to support myself. :|